On behalf of the forum crew, let me welcome you aboard Dyatlov Pass Forum. The forum is a spin off from this message board. We’ve just hit our cruising altitude of 3000 posts and I have turned off the ability to leave messages, which means you are now free to move about the forum. However, for your own benefit, please register in case you encounter any unexpected facts or thoughts you might want to comment on or share with us.
Though I’ve turned off the maintenance mode, please note the “no cursing” light will remain on throughout the session, in compliance with FA (Forum Administration) regulations. You may not litter the boards and mods prohibit tampering with the spam detectors. Feel free to babble, tattle and preach on, though. Those aren’t forum crimes. Not yet!
On behalf of your forum crew, please, sit back and enjoy your trip.
I call BS my friend. I told you several times, thats what general discussion is for... There is no isolation.
You are simply being a pissy-pants because its not called 'The BL Board" and you know it. FYI, I will fully represent the BL theory for you in the BL and UFO section.. No worries mate, nobody 'needs' to cater to you and kiss your royal behind. You had your chance...Know what Im saying?
Your not a fan of people having somewhere to discuss and develop NON BL theories. Fact
Admin
06-10-2017 09:45 (GMT)
@Nigel Evans Write a book and make a movie while you're at it.
Nigel Evans
06-10-2017 09:36 (GMT)
No i'm still seeing fragmentation here, the virtue in the single thread that we have had todate is that a lot of good points come out of the contest of ideas, it creates a positive energy. If everyone is silo'ed in their own world you don't get the contest. I'm not a fan. Also i'm thinking of my own site for the BL theory . I'm a software developer by profession and interested in developing in the MEAN stack so i'll let you know if/when i've got something to show, might take a while depending on other things.
Loose-Cannon
05-10-2017 18:11 (GMT)
Heck... If we merge Theories any further, the next thing to be merged will likely be BL and UFO. Lol
Loose-Cannon
05-10-2017 18:02 (GMT)
Nigel.
I don't think you realize that if you create a thread... You can change the original post at ANY TIME. I addition, if you were the moderator of the BL section, welp... You can move crap around all ya want in thar.
Again... General Discussion is where you will likely see alot of discussion. The individual (many merged) are where you go to talk only bl with your bl buddies, if you think that the bl section will be a ghost town.... I guess the theory needs improvement?
Its simple. Create a master post laying out your entire theory, sticky it so its at the top for all to see and never goes to page 2 etc. Modify it all ya want.... Lock it... Whatever!
Go to the General discussion board for mixing, matching, new theory ideas, combining, debating.... you know...GENERAL DISCUSSION.
Why would you be intimidated by other theories having their own discussion area where people can take a break from BL and expand their own ideas without heckling?
Admin
05-10-2017 17:59 (GMT)
@Nigel Evans Since you are registered already, can you recount in a post the latest еxpose of the BL theory so I can update the site and we can have it at the beginning of the discussion. Don't think about the structure. Look how it's gonna look in a year time. http://taina.li
Nigel Evans
05-10-2017 17:50 (GMT)
@Admin - "You do realize that anything further down past 20 posts is lost for the posterity."
That's because the "THEORIES" section should be updatable by the nominated mentor.
Currently it's all too clumsy. I've refined the BL theory several times since that section was last changed.
That's how i would want it, a general discussion area and then a read only area for each theory to capture the argument todate. Having a seperate discussion area per theory is going to make things look lonely imo.
@Lyndasez - the interview is in "Journey to Dyatlov Pass, Keith McClosky".
Admin
05-10-2017 16:41 (GMT)
Loose Cannon is right. This section has long outgrown it's container and taken a wrong turn at some point. Your activity brought the idea of a forum. What you do is a discussion which can only be managed by multiple threads and not what we have now. You do realize that anything further down past 20 posts is lost for the posterity. All the conversations are lost as threads. No topics no nothing.
Loose-Cannon
05-10-2017 12:58 (GMT)
#1 Again, the forum has a GENERAL DISCUSSION board in the Theories section. I have already merged many theories, and the entire point is to not have so much bleeding over and domination of the narrative just to push an agenda and silence others. Duplicating whats going on here is not tye objective.
#2 Call me crazy, but I don't think it was ever the owners intention to have a 4 mile long discussion/debate on a single page. Rather for it to be.... For comments. Namely on the site. As in.... "Hey, nice job and very informative", or "this is a great site with lots of information" etc.
#3 if you have input (always welcome) on the board structure, perhaps the place to discuss it is..... On the forum. Just a crazy thought.
In fact, I may recommend to Admin that this comment page be locked up. It's a vulnerability as a whole having no verification or registration and has diverged greatly from what I believe was the original intention.
Lyndasez
05-10-2017 11:44 (GMT)
@Nigel, Re: forum Wouldn’t a simple COVERUP topic address notions of true or false since we have only intuition to go on?
Also, where is this Ivanov bossmans interview located? Hibinaud? Name?
**thanks for the clarification on rav3.
Nigel Evans
05-10-2017 10:03 (GMT)
Just my thoughts on the new forum. I think you're fragmenting the discussion too much. Also you need a hierarchy of subjects. Based on the interview with Ivanov's boss either there was a state coverup or the interview is false. So you need a tree to cater for true or false on this "big" fact.
If true - then it rules out most of the theories, you are left with things the state must coverup- military accident, natural phenomena useful to the military (like BL), aliens perhaps. If false then all theories are possible.
Nigel Evans
05-10-2017 09:52 (GMT)
@Lyndasez - "Can someone answer who is who, left to right in this photo?"
Kolevatov body (upper left) was found right next to Zolotaryov's as if the latter was carrying or protecting him. Tibo's body was positioned aside of them lower downstream
Oss, Svetlana. Don't Go There: Post Mortem (p. 76). LiberWriter.com. Kindle Edition.
Nigel Evans
05-10-2017 09:48 (GMT)
@Lyndasez - "Don’t Go There... It knocked your BL theory outta the park...you couldn’t answer the heavy question — why did they run and stay away." Because the BL didn't more from the tent, hence the hot spot???
"You punked out ...not me." dream on darling .
Loose-Cannon
04-10-2017 18:40 (GMT)
What makes a forum successful is people talking. Content. Could take months, could be years. Its Ultimately up to you guys/gals to make the best of an opportunity. .
The other forum I started a few years ago has 38,560 Posts in 3,297 Topics by 611 Members.
KMM
04-10-2017 17:44 (GMT)
Lyndasez 04-10-2017 17:00 (GMT) @KMM, Where’s the action? Went there ...and got stuck somewhere...
Just register there, It still gathering members, it will pick up
Lyndasez
04-10-2017 17:00 (GMT)
@KMM, Where’s the action? Went there ...and got stuck somewhere...
KMM
04-10-2017 16:54 (GMT)
@Lyndasez , hey come on over to the forum, you will catch on fast
Make a good informative post in a section, and you may find it stickied at the top of that board.
Loose-Cannon
02-10-2017 23:49 (GMT)
Or... its just a screen name.
You really need to get a grip man. Just saying.
John Wolfe
02-10-2017 23:39 (GMT)
note to Amin: the new map on home page is good -- could you supply more on the region and Russia in general? Not knowing Soviet geography, its difficult to find things on the internet. (spent an hour - still confused) Some detailed maps with cities and distances -- locations of former gulags, train lines, military camps and etc. would help.
John Wolfe
02-10-2017 23:29 (GMT)
I won't have a problem with rule # 9 unless "loose cannon" posts under my name -- you / and administrator, should have no problem telling the difference -- the real JW doesn't curse people and doesn't claim to speak for them either. Just read some of my posts from the last few months -- and then read Loose Cannon. By the way has anyone out there read any Victor Hugo ?
A loose cannon refers to a cannon which gets dislocated and moves about randomly on the decks of a battleship, creating a hazard to crew and equipment.
A famous literary depiction of a loose cannon appears in Victor Hugo's 1874 novel "Ninety-Three", whose plot is set during the French Revolution. In a well-known episode, a ship of anti-revolutionary French Royalists is sailing towards Brittany, to aid the anti-revolutionary Chouannerie rebellion. While at sea, a sailor fails to properly secure his cannon, which rolls out of control and damages the ship. The sailor risks his life to secure the cannon and save the ship. The Marquis de Lantenac, leader of the Royalists, awards the man a medal for his bravery and then executes him (without trial) for failing in his duty.
--- nice guys, those French ---
The widespread publication of Hugo's book, both in the original French and in translation to various other languages, helped make the concept of a loose cannon more well-known. It has eventually developed a metaphorical meaning relating to a person who is acting in a wild and unpredictable manner and who constitutes as much danger to his or her own side as to the enemy.
-- or could be a danger to the new forum --
Loose-Cannon
02-10-2017 15:26 (GMT)
You may/may-not have noticed the admin has inserted a new (forum) button in the navigation bar at the top of this site.
KMM
02-10-2017 14:14 (GMT)
Loose-Cannon 02-10-2017 06:05 (GMT) Like I said... Its easy to have a General discussion board for basic theory talk. The subsections for individual victims simply hold relative information and a place to discuss them individually.... Thats why its condensed with subsections for each and will not dominate the index. The theories as of right now are not in subsections.
Basically you have a small rules and board information section, individual victim section..... Then all the theories. As of right now its very basic and not nearly as crazy as the one I linked to. That was simply an example of how its a dedicated DPI forum and not just a topic within a board of many other things... Like your two links.
Relax. Dont crap a Volvo just yet.
#1. Its more secure #2. Page load speeds will be instant because there wont be a 3 mile long blog type single thread #3. Its organized #4. Relative information are easily stickied in each section for quick reference #5. Pictures and vids are displayed directly within the thread and uploading is free without joining an image hosting site. #6. There is a full blown messaging system to privately message other users. #7. You can set an email notification of new replies to any thread you choose... Like ones your most interested in. #8. A full blown search function... Who doesn't like that?!?! #9. Rules. John Wolfe may have a very hard time with this one. Just sayin.
I can literally go on and on as to why a dedicated forum is.... A giod thing. Winking
That sounds OK to me!
Loose-Cannon
02-10-2017 06:05 (GMT)
Like I said... Its easy to have a General discussion board for basic theory talk. The subsections for individual victims simply hold relative information and a place to discuss them individually.... Thats why its condensed with subsections for each and will not dominate the index. The theories as of right now are not in subsections.
Basically you have a small rules and board information section, individual victim section..... Then all the theories. As of right now its very basic and not nearly as crazy as the one I linked to. That was simply an example of how its a dedicated DPI forum and not just a topic within a board of many other things... Like your two links.
Relax. Dont crap a Volvo just yet.
#1. Its more secure #2. Page load speeds will be instant because there wont be a 3 mile long blog type single thread #3. Its organized #4. Relative information are easily stickied in each section for quick reference #5. Pictures and vids are displayed directly within the thread and uploading is free without joining an image hosting site. #6. There is a full blown messaging system to privately message other users. #7. You can set an email notification of new replies to any thread you choose... Like ones your most interested in. #8. A full blown search function... Who doesn't like that?!?! #9. Rules. John Wolfe may have a very hard time with this one. Just sayin.
I can literally go on and on as to why a dedicated forum is.... A giod thing.
Lyndasez
02-10-2017 05:41 (GMT)
@LC, O man one section leads to a subsection of a gazillion categories...can’t even navigate ...1 or 2 measly replies ea...oof!
I give up...
Loose-Cannon
02-10-2017 05:25 (GMT)
It wont be anything like those. lol.
The admin is going to design their own theme, but this is a full blown forum, not just a blog section within a site.
Havent seen a list/structure idea from anyone else as of yet. Again.... its going to be how the admin says its going to be. I simply tossed some thing up. Some may go bye bye, some may be added.
Loose-Cannon
02-10-2017 04:43 (GMT)
Hmmm.... time for 'General Discussion' or 'create you own'
Lyndasez
02-10-2017 04:14 (GMT)
Wow that is ponderous!
If you sectioning off each of those theory categories into the forum?
I can easily combine my theory with 3 or 4 of those single catergories, an one not listed, not going to each section to discuss....
Loose-Cannon
02-10-2017 03:16 (GMT)
Basic board I have.... All subject to admin approval.
Genesis:. Rules. Introductions. Board Information .
Victims Discussion:. YURI DOROSHENKO. YURI KRIVONISCHENKO. IGOR DYATLOV. ZINAIDA KOLMOGOROVA. RUSTEM SLOBODIN. LYUDMILA DUBININA. SEMYON ZOLOTARYOV. ALEXANDER KOLEVATOV. NIKOLAI THIBEAUX.
Dyatlov Pass: (Factual Information). Materials of 1959. Photography. Case Files. Maps and charts. Diaries and letters. Events before the incident.
Materials Modern:. Publications / Media Video / Photography
Something tells me the forum will be simple and have no spam adds.
Its not like there is a trader section, vender section, feedback system, chatter box, retail section etc.
All Im currently doing is adjusting a ton of settings so it will work properly.
Also uploading several mods so that pictures are 100% up-loadable right from the posting window without having to join a photo hosting site and uploading it to there first. Also a Youtube mod so vids will play directly within the thread etc.
Basic stuffs.
Loose-Cannon
02-10-2017 00:57 (GMT)
@KMM . "Will our past comments still be there, or will we start off new ?"
Not sure what you mean... past comments still be on this page? Its up to the admin whether or not they keep this pages contents.
Loose-Cannon
01-10-2017 23:15 (GMT)
SZ is far right... cant remember who was spooning who on the left.
Lyndasez
01-10-2017 22:51 (GMT)
Since there doesn’t seem to be an independent pic of AlexK and only one small one of Tibi.
Can someone answer who is who, left to right in this photo?
I’ve seen posts that put Tibi at right because they see 2 watches...???? Thanks.
Loose-Cannon
01-10-2017 22:40 (GMT)
I just replaced nearly the entire AC system in my BMW... I'll try and address your questions in a few hrs. Ultimately, its up to the site owner. But I am sure we can use input as to what boards sections to add.
KMM
01-10-2017 22:32 (GMT)
Loose-Cannon 01-10-2017 21:10 (GMT) Don't stop talking now... It will be a few days or more until the forum is ready.
Will our past comments still be there, or will we start off new ?
Lyndasez
01-10-2017 22:15 (GMT)
@Nigel, {Ditto rabid reindeer section.}
Don’t Go There... It knocked your BL theory outta the park...you couldn’t answer the heavy question — why did they run and stay away. You punked out ...not me.
I also added if you want an espionage theory I’d do that too...so enough with the talkin big. ;c}
Lyndasez
01-10-2017 22:03 (GMT)
Loose-Cannon, If posters may be so bold as to weigh in on the forum construction ...I’d like to add my 2 cents.
Most of the DP forums that have 2”avatars & register info, fancy graphics, a gazillion categories, and bazillion photos clogging pages are largely defunct.
This comment section has the latest and most comments I’ve come across, due it’s simplicity— easy navigation, doesn’t hurt your eyes, can see many comments at once.
So my vote goes for simplicity.... :c)
Loose-Cannon
01-10-2017 21:10 (GMT)
Don't stop talking now... It will be a few days or more until the forum is ready.
Loose-Cannon
01-10-2017 14:57 (GMT)
DPI..... Dyatlov Pass Incident
Can be whatever you like.
Admin
01-10-2017 14:33 (GMT)
What are the first three characters supposed to be?
Loose-Cannon
01-10-2017 14:20 (GMT)
Came up with a temporary forum title/logo. Its up to admin whether they want to keep it or come up with something different. More/less this is just to have something there in the time being.
"I would recommend comrade Nigel as moderator of the BL section." I would recommend comrade Nigel as moderator of the hand to hand combat section as it wont need a lot of attention.
IVANOV
30-09-2017 17:06 (GMT)
Too Soon ?
Loose-Cannon
30-09-2017 15:24 (GMT)
Ok.. I will email you when I get off work.
Admin
30-09-2017 14:55 (GMT)
Lets do it Loose-Cannon. Can you contact me at the email I have given in the opening paragraph.
Loose-Cannon
30-09-2017 14:04 (GMT)
I would recommend comrade Nigel as moderator of the BL section.
Loose-Cannon
30-09-2017 13:49 (GMT)
Of course, I was thinking of doing it myself but I don't feel like owning another forum discussion board. I am however very experienced in setting them up and could do it for you... Rules, mods, board structure, permissions on and on... I would go with simple machines software.
Admin
30-09-2017 13:36 (GMT)
I may. Would you register?
Loose-Cannon
30-09-2017 12:38 (GMT)
@Admin .
Have you considered an actual discussion forum?
Zrk3907
30-09-2017 11:26 (GMT)
Picture #1-instead of 3 heads. 3 gloved finger tips?
Nigel Evans
30-09-2017 07:56 (GMT)
@Admin - I've no problem with IVANOV, presumably he gets the BL theory .
Admin
30-09-2017 07:10 (GMT)
Maybe I didn't get the joke, my apologies. Here is what I "censored"
IVANOV: Ivanov unleash attack-pterodactyl on peasant hikers.
KMM: SIR: have you concidered a pterodactyl laying an egg in front of the tent thus creating the warm spot ?
Loose-Cannon
30-09-2017 01:56 (GMT)
"Ivanov thought he knew the reason"
You know what they say about opinions.... He had several apparently, and UFO was at the top.
@IVANOV. I 'get' the comic relief, and its needed imho. No idea why you would be censored.
KMM
29-09-2017 23:16 (GMT)
@ Lyndasez, Sounds like the same.
KMM
29-09-2017 23:11 (GMT)
Which was expanded? I scan them to see if they're headed where I'm going...
Your post was by the same guy so I didn't inspect...
KMM
29-09-2017 22:32 (GMT)
Lyndasez: That's the guy who said they were transferring radioactive material--yes?
I'm not sure some of that wasn't expanded on and added by someone else
KMM
29-09-2017 22:26 (GMT)
Lyndasez 29-09-2017 21:54 (GMT) @KMM, "If you are reading that long winded essay, it goes into US overflights over Russia. Too much so really IMO."
Haha, I've sped read the internet version. Yes, hopefully that guy must've been paid by the word.
That's the guy who said they were transferring radioactive material--yes?
Yes
Sepp
29-09-2017 22:00 (GMT)
Hey, great site!!! I think in the end the military/special forces theory fits best – and we all know that this is not the first time someone comes to that conclusion. It is clear that at least some of the victims suffered major injuries, which only can be explained by the exposure to a tremendous/ explosive force. Who is in charge of explosives? The military. And it seems that there was a lot of cover up done afterwards, to disguise the truth. And who is very experienced and good in covering something up? The military. I think most of us would agree, that we don?t have an unlucky accident here, but a murder case. (Who has the license to kill? The military). And after the homicide the military had enough time to cover their tracks, as the rescue team arrived after more than 20 days at the crime scene. And the rescue team was at first not aware that they had to deal with a crime scene. This became clear only after 2 months, when the more violently hurt bodies where found. All the evidence that may have been there initially was long ago gone. …and closer we will not get to the truth, as much as we try. We will never exactly know why the hikers had to die, nor what exactly made them leave their tent, nor what exactly happened that night - as much as we whish. There is only one way to know more than we already do: it may be that somewhere in forgotten secret archives (of the russain military maybe ;-) the report of that disastrous night including the scensored pieces is kept and hopefully released one day – but I doubt this will happen. Howsoever: In my opinion most of the other theories don?t fit and are contradictory (including ball lightning, drugs/shrooms, diseases, avalanche, infrasound, yeti…).
Lyndasez
29-09-2017 21:54 (GMT)
@KMM, "If you are reading that long winded essay, it goes into US overflights over Russia. Too much so really IMO."
Haha, I've sped read the internet version. Yes, hopefully that guy must've been paid by the word.
That's the guy who said they were transferring radioactive material--yes?
Nigel Evans
29-09-2017 21:51 (GMT)
@KMM - Ivanov thought he knew the reason and he would have compiled the original file before it was confiscated.
KMM
29-09-2017 21:39 (GMT)
Nigel: well if the interview with Evgeniy Okishev is to be believed there was a coverup ordered at a high level after the criminal investigation was underway, the clear order was to falsify the report as an accident whilst the real one was confiscated. From memory the second highest officer in the Russian criminal prosecution service travelled 400 miles to personally attend the autopsies on the first five bodies over three days. Gives you a feeling that the pathologist had the outcomes written for him.
:-) I don't think you will get many arguments on a coverup. Just the reasons for it .
KMM
29-09-2017 20:59 (GMT)
Lyndasez: Due to the nuclear test ban its clear to me the Russians were paranoid of American spy planes or balloons ....being those "lights
If you are reading that long winded essay, it goes into US overflights over Russia. Too much so really IMO.
Lyndasez
29-09-2017 18:55 (GMT)
@KMM, "A coverup DOES NOT, have to have anything to do with BL !"
I strongly agree. ---- @Nigel, I doubt the interest in the eye witness accounts of lights was due to harnessing BL.
Due to the nuclear test ban its clear to me the Russians were paranoid of American spy planes or balloons ....being those "lights."
KMM
29-09-2017 18:31 (GMT)
Nigel Evans 29-09-2017 18:21 (GMT) @Lyndasez - well if the interview with Evgeniy Okishev is to be believed there was a coverup ordered at a high level after the criminal investigation was underway, the clear order was to falsify the report as an accident whilst the real one was confiscated. From memory the second highest officer in the Russian criminal prosecution service travelled 400 miles to personally attend the autopsies on the first five bodies over three days. Gives you a feeling that the pathologist had the outcomes written for him. So if you embrace that interview as genuine there are few options. BL still fits as it could be the Soviets were investigating trying to weaponise it. They could have even been inducing it perhaps, hence the several eye witness accounts in that period...
A coverup DOES NOT, have to have anything to do with BL !
Nigel Evans
29-09-2017 18:21 (GMT)
@Lyndasez - well if the interview with Evgeniy Okishev is to be believed there was a coverup ordered at a high level after the criminal investigation was underway, the clear order was to falsify the report as an accident whilst the real one was confiscated. From memory the second highest officer in the Russian criminal prosecution service travelled 400 miles to personally attend the autopsies on the first five bodies over three days. Gives you a feeling that the pathologist had the outcomes written for him. So if you embrace that interview as genuine there are few options. BL still fits as it could be the Soviets were investigating trying to weaponise it. They could have even been inducing it perhaps, hence the several eye witness accounts in that period...
Lyndasez
29-09-2017 10:17 (GMT)
@Nigel, Are you saying your BL theory has changed? Now you are onto weaponised BL? Not quite reading you.
When you were quoting "Don't Go There," you demanded facts from me believing in no cover up, now you've gone full circle???
I can go full on espionage...
Nigel Evans
29-09-2017 08:20 (GMT)
@Lyndasez - "Umm, you're supposed to answer this as well, BL vs Deranged animal! " BL, you're omitting to dial in what we now know about the coverup. It had to have been something very sensitive. That now rules out a huge number of possibilities including rabid reindeer and food poisoning btw.
My money is on either the military testing or interested in weaponising BL. That Kapitsa was working in this field at the same time and some of the group were working in nuclear resonates with me, they would have heard his theory for BL and people would be talking about it as a solution to the mansi siberian lights perhaps. So some intersects there.
Accidental deaths from military testing - well i see it as a coverup being launched late in the day after the state's legal arm found the first five and began an investigation. So i discount the tidying up theory, whatever it was didn't leave traces other than as reported.
Loose-Cannon
29-09-2017 05:52 (GMT)
Paul/Pavell.... Whoever you are. I don't care, this site is 1000 times better organized and has no spam flash add crap. You don't 'own' the DP incident.
Do you have something to add to the conversation other then but-hurt?
Loose-Cannon
29-09-2017 04:21 (GMT)
@Ray. "They acted like people exposed to a high order Toxin that effected their CNS. Like LSD , nerve agent, or several food born toxins would have. Did anyone run test on the Kasha for Ergot"
They did, but the file/results are conveniently left out of the case files.
Lyndasez
28-09-2017 18:12 (GMT)
Nigel, " Both strips were free from emulsion damage but there was a small section of underdeveloped film on the ten frame strip due to the layers of film getting stuck together in the developing tank. The most glaring item to begin with, in the examination of Zolotarev’s film, was that nine frames were missing"
Missing...how? Cut, unused??? The rest is gibberish, what are we looking at negs, photos of negs....what?
And if they photos have anything to do with those on this site...look yourself....says damaged.
Btw. You can't help but get emulsion damage if strips stuck together...double talk.
Lyndasez
28-09-2017 17:40 (GMT)
@Nigel Evans "also there was no blood or even signs of a struggle at the tent.
Just guessing that there weren't any animal footprints either." ---------- Tent was not orderly ...entrance was littered with items.
Zinas face was bloodied, her back bruised, numerous signs of cuts an bruises on others...
Tracks: Snowed over...the 2 pair of men's boots left no tracks as well.
Umm, you're supposed to answer this as well, BL vs Deranged animal!
Nigel Evans
28-09-2017 17:21 (GMT)
@Lyndasez - also there was no blood or even signs of a struggle at the tent.
Just guessing that there weren't any animal footprints either.
Lyndasez
28-09-2017 16:46 (GMT)
@Nigel, "It just doesn't fit the facts, they left the tent to walk down the slope half undressed leaving knives and axes behind. Same with the yeti theory."
Yeti?! I never said yeti, that's within the realm of your fantasies. Keep it simple.
Do you have time and light to gather weapons and clothes if an animal pounced your tent and injured people?! The surprise attack alone would unnerve you. Next question?
Nigel Evans
28-09-2017 16:26 (GMT)
@Lyndasez - "too simple for you? " It just doesn't fit the facts, they left the tent to walk down the slope half undressed leaving knives and axes behind. Same with the yeti theory, you'd get your boots on and take all your weapons.
@Ray - the biggest argument against hallucinating et al is that they all move with the same purpose which is difficult to explain with natural poisoning, affecting all nine the same - quite improbable. Then they make quite rational choices, leaving a flashlight halfway down turned on (presumed to be a beacon to assist the return) collecting firewood, stripping bodies for extra clothing, building seats in a den (at least, if not building the den entirely).
Lyndasez
28-09-2017 15:53 (GMT)
@Nigel I'll put my rabid/deranged animal theory against your BL anyday, the statistics are with me....too simple for you? ----------------------- First case of rabies reported in wild animal in Interior Alaska Tim Mowry/tmowry@newsminer.com; ... There have been cases of rabies in caribou and moose, ...
Moscow, Feb 13 (IANS/RIA Novosti) Two residents of Moscow have reportedly been hospitalized while 12 of their relatives are undergoing treatment after coming into contact with a rabid moose.
Rabid deer confirmed in Cherokee County, N.C. - Carolina ...
Rabies is a disease, ... elk and moose causing a characteristic spongy degeneration of the brain of infected animals resulting in emaciation, ...
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Ray
28-09-2017 15:53 (GMT)
They acted like people exposed to a high order Toxin that effected their CNS. Like LSD , nerve agent, or several food born toxins would have. Did anyone run test on the Kasha for Ergot?
@KMM - "why didn't he turn around and snap off a few shots going down the slope?"
Good question. The answer has to be that as a true professional he did and they kept them. Valentin Yakimenko's study of the group's negatives established that there are several (nine?) frames missing from that roll, the one producing the 30x. Maybe we only know of these pictures due to a failure to recognise their content.
KMM
27-09-2017 21:47 (GMT)
For Nigel, If SZ was on a secret mission to photograph lights in the sky/BL, why didn't he turn around and snap off a few shots going down the slope? You know something that wouldn't need 30X magnification to find a spot on the negative. Secrecy would of went out of the window once BL showed up !
Lyndasez
27-09-2017 21:24 (GMT)
@KMM, "Maybe, but why would these same 2 veer off from the group then rejoin them later?"
I don't think those are their (rav3) prints, think that was 2 yuris.... They (3) could've gone so fast tumbled or what have you, the warm feet left the prints. That's why I went with the simple rabid animal, to explain to Nigel, how his theory falters. Disoriented animal drawn to light pounces tent. They creep downhill, Igor tells 2 to gather wood an build fire, animal lingers, animal makes sudden movement Luddy heads for the ravine, animal takes after....very simple but one in many...
KMM
27-09-2017 21:12 (GMT)
Lyndasez 27-09-2017 21:06 (GMT) @KMM, Here's how I see it with the 3 in question. Firstly, you don't suit up to take a pee. So, I think before lights out, SZ & Tibi went out for a smoke.
Maybe, but why would these same 2 veer off from the group then rejoin them later?
KMM
27-09-2017 21:08 (GMT)
@ Lyndasez, Yeah, that was Alexander Kolevatov
Lyndasez
27-09-2017 21:06 (GMT)
@KMM, Here's how I see it with the 3 in question. Firstly, you don't suit up to take a pee. So, I think before lights out, SZ & Tibi went out for a smoke. (2 folded blankets amongst the rumpled)
Alex may have had to pee and joined them....they are panicked by something, alert others and high-tail down hill for cover.
Lyndasez
27-09-2017 19:16 (GMT)
@KMM,
ALEX---->"a ski jacket of black paper on a zipper, unbuttoned, right and left breast pockets and cuffs unbuttoned, the buttons are intact. The left sleeve of the jacket on the upper side has fabric defects in the area of ??25 x 12 x 13 cm, the edges of the fabric in the indicated place are adorned. On the right elbow of the jacket there are insignificant tissue burdens 7-8 cm long. Above the jacket is a brown sweatshirt with sweatshirts, then under it is a second gray sweater, a worn, cotton cowboy in a blue, red and black cage, with two breast pockets. On the right pocket is an English safety pin, it contained a flat key from the lock, the collar and cuffs of the cowboy are unbuttoned. "
Native shirt with fleece, pale gray, worn. A canvas trousers are a khaki overall on straps with an elastic band. In the right pockets of the trousers a soggy box of matches, at the bottom trousers on metal buckles with tears, beneath them are ski trousers of a blue bikey with side clasps, in the pocket of their handkerchief. On the legs woolen socks are dirty, white, homemade with knots of burning, brown cotton socks. On his left leg are three brown cotton socks, under them on the ankle joint, a gauze bandage. Pants gray-gray paired with a shirt, blue satin panties"
He didn't have boots.
KMM
27-09-2017 18:53 (GMT)
Lyndasez : Why we're the 3 at the ravine dressed warmest?
I've wondered about the 2 that went off by themselves, later rejoining to rest. Read it was the 2 best dressed, NTB and SZ
Lyndasez
27-09-2017 18:52 (GMT)
@KMM, O Cripes, more reading. Just kidding, thanks for sharing! "link to A.I. Rakitin's essay, ALL 30 chapters of it!"
Lyndasez
27-09-2017 18:42 (GMT)
@Z.D., There was a moratorium on nuclear tests between '58-'60. However, they could've stumbled on tainted aftermath of previous tests. Hence, the 3 yr ban on traversing the area. (Cleanup)
Lyndasez
27-09-2017 18:24 (GMT)
"- it's the lightning bolt theory for the rav4 deaths. But it doesn't explain the key question why leave the tent like that AND have to stay away. So occams razor favours the BL theory which explains all."
To me this isn't the simplest of explanations. Too many variables to account for.
Why we're the 3 at the ravine dressed warmest?
No burns attributable to lightning strikes.
The victims panicked behavior to a natural phenomena.
No evidence of unexplained solid ice, craters, surface damage.
Why was the first to die, the 2 by the fire and so forth.
Plus if we want to include tearing of tent from inside?
If I were to, off the top of my head think of a simple reason to panic it would be a rabid reindeer pounced the tent stayed awhile there and butted the RAV4, left others alone to venture back to tent....
Loose-Cannon
27-09-2017 18:23 (GMT)
No Nigel... BL does not explain it all.
But I see your starting to think of other possibilities. Thats a good thang.
Z.D.
27-09-2017 17:47 (GMT)
I know that i'm not an expert on this incident, but i do come from a part of the US that gets extremely cold. I know that hypothermia, even while drunk or high, will set in around 5 or ten minutes. That's with minus ten. My dad, being a dispatcher, answered some of these calls for those who died because of hypothermia. From what i can gather, they do not look anything like how these people's corpses look from the pictures. they are not blueish purple, common with frost bite or hypothermia, and for the most part, look like their skin was burn. The autopsys of some of the victims did show that some were exposed to radiation, which would cause thoses kinds of burns, but it didn't kill them. My best guess, after analysising the photos and diary entries and autopsy reports, is that they were victims of a science experiment gone wrong. the kind of experiment i can not determine, but i say it might have been something with nuclear radiation. The area was sparcely populated, making it perfect for this kind of stuff. That's my two sense in this.
@Lyndasez - it's the lightning bolt theory for the rav4 deaths. But it doesn't explain the key question why leave the tent like that AND have to stay away. So occams razor favours the BL theory which explains all.
But given the coverup here from Party HQ the favourite theory now has to be either military accident of highly sensitive weapon technology (neutron weapons might be a good avenue as there's a connection with tritium and beta emitters) or accidental encounter with a natural phenomena that was being looked at by the military. Whatever it was it had to be kept a state secret. This wasn't mansi hunters et al and if the state wanted them silenced they would have just disappeared. So it looks like a genuine accident that brought in the law agencies and then the state woke up to what was happening late in the day and ordered a coverup, confiscated the prosecutor's file ordering a dummy one to be created.
Interesting that Pytor Kapitsa (author of the microwave cavity hypothesis for BL) was working on high energy microwave plasmas during this period - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyotr_Kapitsa - "He invented high power microwave generators (1950–1955)".
Loose-Cannon
26-09-2017 16:23 (GMT)
I don't recall them having any shovels, but I could be wrong. I do know they had large hatchets that on one side had a duck-bill turned 90 degrees to the axe/hatchet side.
No, and given their goals Igor and company probably gave them lots of details of the hike.
- I - Goals and objectives: 1. Acquaintance with the nature and economy of the Northern Urals.? 2. Conducting conversations and reports among the population.? 3. Increase the athletic skills of the participants in the trek.? 4. Study of the depth of freezing of soils according to surveys and observations of residents of the Northern Urals.
Lyndasez
26-09-2017 15:17 (GMT)
@Loose Cannon If you know...I've read through the case files and saw no account of folding shovels recovered. I miss something?
Lyndasez
26-09-2017 14:58 (GMT)
Nigel, ( if the explosion was small enough and in the snowbank , or even just in the ravine, there'd be little other damage it would direct the blast along the ravine and straight up. If they had been permitted to return for a site inspection in the summer maybe they would have seen something, snapped saplings perhaps.) wwwwhaaaaat happened to this???===> "The theory suggests that the ravine lightning strike hit close to the den and vaporized a substantial quantity of stream water, snow and ice can produce 300,000 amps and temperatures several times hotter than the surface of the sun, e.g. 30,000C) creating an explosion amplified by the confines of the ravine that threw the den and it's occupants"
Abandon ship! Theory is sinking!!
Lyndasez
26-09-2017 14:22 (GMT)
@KMM, Good job! ;c}
(The mechanism of damage formation is as follows: a blow, compression from the right to the left with a solid blunt object with a traumatic surface comparable in size to the chest of Zolotarev.). <===A SHOVEL or from the look of that 13ft, immaculate den, a backhoe...
Loose-Cannon
26-09-2017 12:48 (GMT)
Yeah... Because risking more lives digging by hand in unknown depths of pack ice/snow in an unstable area would makes sense. On Top of that, I would leave my wounded female friend slumped offer a rock with her arms up for good measure. Sounds logical.
Nigel Evans
26-09-2017 11:10 (GMT)
@LC - "Except for the fact they were found meters away from the 'den', and you cannot explain for a snow movement/melting pushing bodies because the 'den' floor was intact." That's were Rustem, Zina and Igor get their hands and fists scratched etc digging them out.
"What happens when your standing in a creek of boulders next to a wall of pack ice when it collapses/slides/shifts/settles into the ravine? " You're guaranteed to get broken limbs. A key feature of this injury profile is the strong crushing force required to snap ribs that doesn't break limbs, or even a collar bone.
Loose-Cannon
26-09-2017 10:52 (GMT)
Except for the fact they were found meters away from the 'den', and you cannot explain for a snow movement/melting pushing bodies because the 'den' floor was intact.
#1 they were not in the den. #2 plenty of evidence suggesting the den didn't exist in the first place.
I still for the life of me do not understand why you think an explosion 'had' to have happen. Your a physics guy... What happens when your standing in a creek of boulders next to a wall of pack ice when it collapses/slides/shifts/settles into the ravine? An explosion does not have to exist for this to happen.
Nigel Evans
26-09-2017 06:24 (GMT)
@LC - "Last time I looked, a blast wave is neither solid, nor blunt"
Correct but the chunk of the den wall pushed into her chest by an explosion outside could be. Then the roof den collapsing gives you bi phasic.
Explosion card reinstated.
@KMM - if the explosion was small enough and in the snowbank , or even just in the ravine, there'd be little other damage it would direct the blast along the ravine and straight up. If they had been permitted to return for a site inspection in the summer maybe they would have seen something, snapped saplings perhaps.
KMM
26-09-2017 02:31 (GMT)
LC: And you thought I was WAY out in left field for suggesting a possible ergot poisoning
I just read a couple pages on this. I didn't know much about it
Loose-Cannon
26-09-2017 02:09 (GMT)
Lol... I just noticed the 4 eating the Rusks in the photos just happen to be the 4 individuals confirmed having fractured bones.
Loose-Cannon
26-09-2017 01:53 (GMT)
Tumanov:.
"The expert, Vozrozhdenniy interprets petty-hemorrhage as a spot of Wischnewsky. But at the same time, in the stomach of Dyatlov, "about 100 cubic cm of liquid mucous mass of a brownish reddish color", "the mucous membrane of the stomach is lilac-red, swollen," and "the lips are covered with gore".
Most likely, Dyatlov had vomiting before his death with an admixture of blood. The source of bleeding is the gastric mucosa. What caused such a vomiting - poisoning or abnormality of the stomach - can not be established, since there is no case in the materials of the forensic chemical and histological examination." .
"5. In each of the nine acts, the Vozrozhdenniy writes that pieces of internal organs are taken for forensic chemical research. But in the case materials there is not a single result of the conducted forensic chemical research, which should at least show the presence or absence of alcohol. But, a little nuance - to determine the alcohol take blood and urine. Vozrozhdenniy points out that parts of internal organs are taken for a forensic chemical study. This means that he directed the bodies for a forensic chemical study, not only for alcohol, but for the presence of poisons." .
"It is very alarming that the results of the forensic histological examination of the first five corpses are absent in the criminal case! And, as our expert suggested, it is possible that the results of that histology were intentionally concealed. Special attention: all 9 corpses take pieces of internal organs for forensic chemical examination. But there is not a single result in the case materials! And this gives us reason to suspect that chemical experts could find traces in bodies, for example, of some sort of combat poison." .
Poison, poison..... LOL.
And you thought I was WAY out in left field for suggesting a possible ergot poisoning.
"At the same time, there was no system to free the tent from snow. First they took out a few stale blankets, then buckets, a stove, two or THREE SACKS OF BISCUITS , shoes and other things. Things were stacked in backpacks, and dragged the tent to the search engine camp. Naturally, after such manipulations on the tent, sections and torn pieces could appear." .
"The tent had an ice ax, an extra pair of skis. On the tent was a Chinese lantern in the unlit state. 9 backpacks, 9 pairs of skis were found in the tent, all of them were under the tent floor, 8 pairs of shoes, 3.5 pairs of boots, quilted jackets and MANY BISCUITS, half a sack of sugar, a large number of concentrates, cereals, soups, etc. , cocoa, axes, saw, cameras, diaries of students, documents and money." .
"Apparently the group was in the final stage of dressing and preparing for the night at the time of the incident. In the near half found a few crusts from the loin. There are rusks scattered all over the tent." .
Nigel: That's got to be burst lungs, from an explosion
An explosion that left no BLAST pattern, as in melted snow, felled trees.
Loose-Cannon
26-09-2017 01:19 (GMT)
Also dont forget.... Regarding the rav4.
The forensic expert and criminalist expert Churkina refused to sign off on the official autopsy, but Ivanov signed..... AS OF TODAY THE AUTOPSY REPORTS ON RAV4 ARE INVALID AS TWO REQUIRED SIGNATURES ARE ABSENT! .
Lyndasez: I call Cyberknife BL! ...That covers the Ripper and Black Dahlia mysteries!!
in support of Black Dahlia: people are always seeing LIGHTS in Hollywood.
Loose-Cannon
26-09-2017 00:09 (GMT)
Over and over you see 'solid blunt object'.
Last time I looked, a blast wave is neither solid, nor blunt. .
Explosion card denied.
Loose-Cannon
25-09-2017 23:40 (GMT)
"That's got to be burst lungs, from an explosion...."
Funny... that isn't what ANY of the medical examiners have said.
Loose-Cannon
25-09-2017 23:38 (GMT)
Just to recap, and drive it home for our little buddy Nigel. .
YURI DOROSHENKO.
1) With such a transformation of the brain, it is impossible to see the swelling of the meninges! . 2) The presence of dark blood is not a sign of death from hypothermia, on the contrary, when supercooled, the blood is bright red due to the high content of oxyhemoglobin. 3) The resulted statement about a frostbite of fingers of extremities is not proved. There is nothing about this in the text of the study. 4) These circumstances (see General Comment, point 3) allow us to say that Doroshenko's death came as a result of hypothermia, only in a hypothetical form.
Yuri Krivonishenko.
1) It's strange, but Krivonischenko's craniocerebral trauma is only in the description of the act, and in conclusion about the reasons for his death there is none. But this damage was formed as a result of a blow (or blows) by a solid blunt object (or objects) in the right temporal and occipital areas of the head of Yuri. It can not be ruled out that the trauma could be obtained by falling from the standing position and by hitting the right temporal and occipital areas of the head against a hard blunt object. With such a trauma there could be hemorrhages in the brain, but the disintegration of the brain substance in Krivonishchenko destroyed all the informative signs. 2) Again the same rake. In the description of the act about the bite is written, and in the conclusion about death - not a word. But this one line gives reason to believe that Krivonishenko himself bitten himself by the finger, snatching a piece of leather. What does it mean? Perhaps Yuri tried to restrain the cry with severe pain. Perhaps, it was important that someone at that moment did not hear it. 3)I can assume that these "wounds" - cuts - were formed from a sharp object. Knife, glass, blade - anything. 4) It is doubtful that these abrasions were formed when the person fell face down on the snow. Then the nose and the superciliary arches would be buried, and there would be more scratches on the forehead. These abrasions of Krivonischenko from blows with a solid blunt object (or hitting against similar objects) at an acute angle. 5) Suppose, second-degree burns can be obtained by negligence, falling asleep at the fire. But third-degree burns are charring (!) Of soft tissues. To achieve this effect, you need to keep your feet in the fire for a long time. Get in a dream such a burn is impossible, burns already 1-st degree cause severe pain and awakening. In this case, third-degree burns could be formed if a person was in deep depression, for example, into intoxication (he did not feel pain or could not pull his leg off, - Auth.) Next to a strong fire. 6) Wounds on the nose are caused by animals and after the death of Yuri. Otherwise, there would be traces of bleeding.
IGOR DIATLOV.
1) At the autopsy, Igor Dyatlov's internal organs were in rotting state. Therefore, it is incorrect to assert that the internal organs are full of blood, as their structure is modified by postmortem processes. And the presence of dark blood is not a sign of death from hypothermia, on the contrary, when supercooled, the blood is bright red due to the high content of oxyhemoglobin. 2) Most likely, Dyatlov had vomiting before his death with an admixture of blood. The source of bleeding is the gastric mucosa. What caused such a vomiting - poisoning or abnormality of the stomach - can not be established, since there is no case in the materials of the forensic chemical and histological examination. 3) But these damage from falling on the snow will not get. They could appear from circular compression in the ankle, for example as a result of binding by a rope. 4) Obviously, shortly before his death, Igor had to hit with a brush, clenched into a fist, over a hard object.
ZINAIDA KOLMOGOROVA.
1)And these injuries the girl received, most likely, from punching on a solid object. When falling on the snow with an emphasis on the fists, there would be other damage. 2) It was formed as a result of a blow by a solid blunt object, which had an elongated shape (stick, branch of a tree, etc.).
RUSTEM SLOBODIN.
1) With such a transformation of the brain, it is impossible to see edema of the meninges. 2) This trauma was formed as a result of a blow by a solid blunt object or from a blow to the head about such an object. 3) This assertion is unreasonable. There was blood under the dura mater. And this gives all grounds to say that Slobodin had a subdural hemorrhage (hemorrhage under the dura mater). According to available data it is impossible to exclude the onset of Slobodin's death as a result of craniocerebral trauma. 4) Traces of secretions of parched blood formed as a result of a trauma to the nose. 5) These abrasions could be formed as a result of the action of a solid blunt object, as well as the impact of a fist clenched on a solid object.
LYUDMILA DUBININA.
1) It should be noted that the fractures of the ribs were formed biphasic. But there is not a word about this in the act of the Renaissance. In the first phase, as a result of a blow to the right side of the thorax by a solid blunt object with a traumatic surface comparable in size to the length of the rib cage, there was a fracture of the right lobes II, III, IV, and V in the mid-axillary line. In the second phase, as a result of compression of the thoracic anteriorly backward with a hard blunt object, there was a fracture of the ribs II, III, IV, V on the right along the midclavicular line, and fracture of the II, III, IV, V, VI, VII ribs on the left along the midclavicular line. In the same phase, a hemorrhage in the region of the sternum was formed, and a bruise of the heart also occurred. 2)Neither during the throw, nor during the fall, marked damage to the chest by Dubinin could not have been formed. Similar injuries occur when rolling through the chest of a massive blunt object. For example, breast trauma, similar to those detected in Dubinina, is characteristic of a traffic accident - a car crossing the chest with the victim lying on his back. 3) Apparently, Lyudmila hit hard on a hard blunt object, or hit her with a similar object. 4) It is not clear that the expert considers them normal mobility, because in norm, with a whole bone, they are immovable in general. Why are they mobile (pathology of the structure, fracture, if fracture, then where) in the Act is not described. If the bone was actually broken, then it is impossible to tell whether this fracture is alive or not, since the Act does not describe the nature of the soft tissues surrounding the bone. The study of the hyoid bone was not carried out.
SEMYON ZOLOTARYOV.
1) Fractures in the ribs of Zolotarev have been intravital, as evidenced by the results of a histological examination (hemorrhages in the soft tissues - Auth.) And the presence of blood in the pleural cavity. The mechanism of damage formation is as follows: a blow, compression from the right to the left with a solid blunt object with a traumatic surface comparable in size to the chest of Zolotarev. To break thus the ribs, falling on a flat solid surface, is unreal. 2) Both Zolotarev and Dubinina had similar injuries posthumously, as a result of damage to the corpse by animals.
ALEXANDER KOLEVATOV.
1) This conclusion is groundless and in no way follows from the results of the forensic medical examination. There are no characteristic signs: no scarlet stains, no scarlet blood (just scarlet, not dark), Wischnewsky spots, and a number of microscopic signs. 2) The deformation of the neck in the text of the act itself is not described in the following. Not specified and the nature of deformation - congenital or acquired. What exactly is deformed and how. And according to the available description it is also impossible to determine - the deformation of the neck in the lifetime or posthumous.
NIKOLAI TIBO-BRINOLS.
1) This trauma was formed as a result of a blow to the right temporal region with a blunt solid object with a limited traumatic surface that does not exceed the dimensions of the lesion. Stone, iron, or something else that is much stronger than the bones of the skull. 2) This again formed as a result of the impact of a solid blunt object. Direction of impact from front to back towards the anteroideal surface of the right shoulder at an angle close to the straight. 3) In a histological study there is no record of the study of this bone. But there is such a record - "Rib - Between the bone beams blood in a state of putrefaction." This suggests that Vozrozhdenniy at the time of the autopsy revealed a fracture of the rib and took it for histological examination, which showed the intravital nature of the fracture. But in the text of the Act there is not a word about rib fractures in Thibault Brignoles.
GENERAL REMARKS.
All the inspection protocols for the location of the detection of corpses and forensic medical examinations are made, roughly speaking, hackneyed:.
1. The examination was conducted without the participation of a physician-specialist in the field of forensic medicine, which is a violation of the procedure for examining corpses at the place of their detection. The presence and localization of cadaveric spots and the state of the skin in general are not described, the visible lesions on the body are only partially described. Clothes and the position of corpses are described very superficially.
2. Forensic shooting of the scene of the incident was not carried out, the photos are not very informative, closer to the artistic shooting than to the forensic photography.
3. The conclusions of the first five acts of forensic examination were written as a photocopy:.
"... Doroshenko's death (or Krivonischenko, Kolmogorova, Dyatlov, Slobodin) was caused by low temperature, as evidenced by edema of the meninges, a sharp fullness of the internal organs, an overflow of the dark blood of the heart cavities, the presence of Wischnewsky spots on the stomach mucosa, frostbite fingers of the extremities ... ".
4. In each of the nine acts, the expert indicates that the pieces of internal organs are taken for histological examination, but the results in the criminal case are only in the last four - Thibo-Brignol NV, Kolevatova AS, Zolotareva AA and Dubinina LA It can be assumed that the histology of the first five corpses was deliberately hidden, since it was clearly more informative than the corpses found two months later.
5. In each of the nine acts, the Vozrozhdenniy writes that pieces of internal organs are taken for forensic chemical research. But in the case materials there is not a single result of the conducted forensic chemical research, which should at least show the presence or absence of alcohol. But, a little nuance - to determine the alcohol take blood and urine. Vozrozhdenniy points out that parts of internal organs are taken for a forensic chemical study. This means that he directed the bodies for a forensic chemical study, not only for alcohol, but for the presence of poisons.
6. And, finally, the arrangement of cadaveric spots does not coincide with the position of some corpses at the time of their detection. Rustem Slobodin and Yuri Doroshenko found face down, and the cadaver spots the expert described on the back surface of the trunk. The same description is also given by Zinaida Kolmogorova, who, as indicated in the examination report, found lying on her side.
Nigel Evans
25-09-2017 23:24 (GMT)
"The mechanism of damage formation is as follows: a blow, compression from the right to the left with a solid blunt object with a traumatic surface comparable in size to the chest of Zolotarev. To break thus the ribs, falling on a flat solid surface, is unreal."
Semyon also took a crushing force from the right to the left, like if he had been sitting next to Luda in the den...
Nigel Evans
25-09-2017 23:18 (GMT)
Good work guys, i retract my earlier comment about the Tshirt
But here's the smoking gun :- "This sign indicates a bilateral rupture of the lungs"
That's got to be burst lungs, from an explosion....
Loose-Cannon
25-09-2017 22:57 (GMT)
It would seem to indicate the large rock surface they were found on.
Nigel Evans
25-09-2017 22:42 (GMT)
For both Luda and Semyon whatever crushed their chests was similar in length to the size of the rib cage. This would seem to rule out stamping, jumping, rifle but etc.
Nigel Evans
25-09-2017 22:39 (GMT)
Interesting he thinks Luda's fractures were bi phasic :- It should be noted that the fractures of the ribs were formed biphasic. But there is not a word about this in the act of the Renaissance. In the first phase, as a result of a blow to the right side of the thorax by a solid blunt object with a traumatic surface comparable in size to the length of the rib cage, there was a fracture of the right lobes II, III, IV, and V in the mid-axillary line.
In the second phase, as a result of compression of the thoracic anteriorly backward with a hard blunt object, there was a fracture of the ribs II, III, IV, V on the right along the midclavicular line, and fracture of the II, III, IV, V, VI, VII ribs on the left along the midclavicular line. In the same phase, a hemorrhage in the region of the sternum was formed, and a bruise of the heart also occurred.
Like something heavy rolled over her...
Loose-Cannon
25-09-2017 22:28 (GMT)
There you have it folks.
This is was based on a non biased viewpoint from a regarded forensic expert WITHOUT Ivanov and the funky bunch of communist state coverup artists standing over him.
Loose-Cannon
25-09-2017 22:25 (GMT)
Thanks to the fine interweb detection abilities of KMM, we have a recent analysis of the criminal case, studied by forensic expert Eduard Tumanov! Tumanov is a highly regarded modern Russian forensic expert.
GENERAL REMARKS.
All the inspection protocols for the location of the detection of corpses and forensic medical examinations are made, roughly speaking, hackneyed:.
1. The examination was conducted without the participation of a physician-specialist in the field of forensic medicine, which is a violation of the procedure for examining corpses at the place of their detection. The presence and localization of cadaveric spots and the state of the skin in general are not described, the visible lesions on the body are only partially described. Clothes and the position of corpses are described very superficially.
2. Forensic shooting of the scene of the incident was not carried out, the photos are not very informative, closer to the artistic shooting than to the forensic photography.
3. The conclusions of the first five acts of forensic examination were written as a photocopy:.
"... Doroshenko's death (or Krivonischenko, Kolmogorova, Dyatlov, Slobodin) was caused by low temperature, as evidenced by edema of the meninges, a sharp fullness of the internal organs, an overflow of the dark blood of the heart cavities, the presence of Wischnewsky spots on the stomach mucosa, frostbite fingers of the extremities ... ".
4. In each of the nine acts, the expert indicates that the pieces of internal organs are taken for histological examination, but the results in the criminal case are only in the last four - Thibo-Brignol NV, Kolevatova AS, Zolotareva AA and Dubinina LA It can be assumed that the histology of the first five corpses was deliberately hidden, since it was clearly more informative than the corpses found two months later.
5. In each of the nine acts, the Vozrozhdenniy writes that pieces of internal organs are taken for forensic chemical research. But in the case materials there is not a single result of the conducted forensic chemical research, which should at least show the presence or absence of alcohol. But, a little nuance - to determine the alcohol take blood and urine. Vozrozhdenniy points out that parts of internal organs are taken for a forensic chemical study. This means that he directed the bodies for a forensic chemical study, not only for alcohol, but for the presence of poisons.
6. And, finally, the arrangement of cadaveric spots does not coincide with the position of some corpses at the time of their detection. Rustem Slobodin and Yuri Doroshenko found face down, and the cadaver spots the expert described on the back surface of the trunk. The same description is also given by Zinaida Kolmogorova, who, as indicated in the examination report, found lying on her side.
FROM AUTHORS:.
We thank our expert Eduard Tumanov for the work done. And now, in a clearer picture of the injuries of the woodpeckers, we can safely assume that a fight has occurred on the pass. With poachers? Or with someone else, or ... we spread our hands. At the same time, strong rib fractures in Dubinina and Zolotarev indicate that such injuries do not get in fights. That is, according to the cleavages of the ribs you can see that they did not kick a man, there ... with boots, but only one blow and some great object were dealt. What would that mean?
It is very alarming that the results of the forensic histological examination of the first five corpses are absent in the criminal case! And, as our expert suggested, it is possible that the results of that histology were intentionally concealed. Special attention: all 9 corpses take pieces of internal organs for forensic chemical examination. But there is not a single result in the case materials! And this gives us reason to suspect that chemical experts could find traces in bodies, for example, of some sort of combat poison.
We are going to continue the investigation further and we will be glad to new specialists who can help us on this topic.
Loose-Cannon
25-09-2017 22:23 (GMT)
Thanks to the fine interweb detection abilities of KMM, we have a recent analysis of the criminal case, studied by forensic expert Eduard Tumanov! Tumanov is a highly regarded modern Russian forensic expert.
NICOLAI, POSSIBLE, BEAT BY HEAD AND BY RIBS.
NIKOLAI TIBO-BRINOLS.
The certificate of forensic medical expert Vozrozhdenniy from May 9, 1959:.
"... In the right temple, there is a distinct hemorrhage in the right temporal muscle ... a depressed fracture of the right temporal parietal region is determined in a 9 x 7 cm area with a defect in bone tissue and a temporal bone 3 x 3.5 x 2 cm in size. the area of ??the bone is pressed into the cavity of the skull and is located on the dura mater ... in the middle cranium of the pit a multifaceted fracture of the right temporal bone with a divergence of cracks was found ... ».
Tumanov:.
This trauma was formed as a result of a blow to the right temporal region with a blunt solid object with a limited traumatic surface that does not exceed the dimensions of the lesion. Stone, iron, or something else that is much stronger than the bones of the skull.
The certificate of forensic medical expert Vozrozhdenniy from May 9, 1959:.
"... In the area of ??the right shoulder on the anterior-internal surface - a spilled bruise 10x12 cm in size is greenish-blue at the level of the middle and lower third. In the area of ??bruising, hemorrhages in the underlying soft tissue ... ".
Tumanov:.
This again formed as a result of the impact of a solid blunt object. Direction of impact from front to back towards the anteroideal surface of the right shoulder at an angle close to the straight.
The certificate of forensic medical expert Vozrozhdenniy from May 9, 1959:.
"For histological examination, a part of the temporal-parietal bone is taken from the right.".
Tumanov:.
In a histological study there is no record of the study of this bone. But there is such a record - "Rib - Between the bone beams blood in a state of putrefaction." This suggests that Vozrozhdenniy at the time of the autopsy revealed a fracture of the rib and took it for histological examination, which showed the intravital nature of the fracture. But in the text of the Act there is not a word about rib fractures in Thibault Brignoles.
Loose-Cannon
25-09-2017 22:21 (GMT)
Thanks to the fine interweb detection abilities of KMM, we have a recent analysis of the criminal case, studied by forensic expert Eduard Tumanov! Tumanov is a highly regarded modern Russian forensic expert.
ALEXANDER KOLEVATOV.
The certificate of forensic medical expert Vozrozhdenniy from May 9, 1959:.
"Based on the study of the corpse Kolevatov believe that his death came as a result of exposure to low temperature."
Tumanov:.
This conclusion is groundless and in no way follows from the results of the forensic medical examination. There are no characteristic signs: no scarlet stains, no scarlet blood (just scarlet, not dark), Wischnewsky spots, and a number of microscopic signs.
The certificate of forensic medical expert Vozrozhdenniy from May 9, 1959:.
"The neck is long, thin, deformed in the region of the thyroid cartilage.".
Tumanov:.
The deformation of the neck in the text of the act itself is not described in the following. Not specified and the nature of deformation - congenital or acquired. What exactly is deformed and how. And according to the available description it is also impossible to determine - the deformation of the neck in the lifetime or posthumous.
Loose-Cannon
25-09-2017 22:20 (GMT)
Thanks to the fine interweb detection abilities of KMM, we have a recent analysis of the criminal case, studied by forensic expert Eduard Tumanov! Tumanov is a highly regarded modern Russian forensic expert.
Now SZ
SEMYON ZOLOTARYOV .
The certificate of forensic medical expert Vozrozhdenniy from May 9, 1959:.
"... it is determined by the II, III, IV, V, VI rib fracture on the right along the okologo-ore and mid-axillary line with hemorrhage into the adjacent intercostal muscles.".
Tumanov:.
Fractures in the ribs of Zolotarev have been intravital, as evidenced by the results of a histological examination (hemorrhages in the soft tissues - Auth.) And the presence of blood in the pleural cavity.
The mechanism of damage formation is as follows: a blow, compression from the right to the left with a solid blunt object with a traumatic surface comparable in size to the chest of Zolotarev. To break thus the ribs, falling on a flat solid surface, is unreal.
The certificate of forensic medical expert Vozrozhdenniy from May 9, 1959:.
"... In the region of the superciliary arches and eye sockets, a defect of soft tissues of a rounded shape at a site of 7 x 6 cm with thin edges, with exposure of the bones of the facial skull. The glaznitsa gap. There are no eyeballs ... ".
Tumanov:.
Both Zolotarev and Dubinina had similar injuries posthumously, as a result of damage to the corpse by animals.
Loose-Cannon
25-09-2017 22:17 (GMT)
Thanks to the fine interweb detection abilities of KMM, we have a recent analysis of the criminal case, studied by forensic expert Eduard Tumanov! Tumanov is a highly regarded modern Russian forensic expert.
Now LYUDMILA DUBININA.
The certificate of forensic medical expert Vozrozhdenniy from May 9, 1959:.
" Dubinin 's death came as a result of a large hemorrhage to the right ventricle of the heart, multiple bilateral fracture of the ribs, lethal internal bleeding into the chest cavity.".
Tumanov:.
It should be noted that the fractures of the ribs were formed biphasic. But there is not a word about this in the act of the Renaissance. In the first phase, as a result of a blow to the right side of the thorax by a solid blunt object with a traumatic surface comparable in size to the length of the rib cage, there was a fracture of the right lobes II, III, IV, and V in the mid-axillary line.
In the second phase, as a result of compression of the thoracic anteriorly backward with a hard blunt object, there was a fracture of the ribs II, III, IV, V on the right along the midclavicular line, and fracture of the II, III, IV, V, VI, VII ribs on the left along the midclavicular line. In the same phase, a hemorrhage in the region of the sternum was formed, and a bruise of the heart also occurred.
The certificate of forensic medical expert Vozrozhdenniy from May 9, 1959:.
"... in the pleural cavities contained up to one and a half liters of liquid dark blood.".
Tumanov:.
This sign indicates a bilateral rupture of the lungs, but the act does not say a word about it. Yes, and the statement of the expert should be taken critically, since after the onset of death before the moment of forensic medical examination 3 (!) Months passed, and as a result of rotting tissues in the pleural cavities accumulated exudate (putrefactive fluid - Auth.), Which mingled with broken blood.
The certificate of forensic medical expert Vozrozhdenniy from May 9, 1959:.
"... are the result of the impact of a large force, followed by the fall, throw or bruise of the chest area by Dubinina.".
Tumanov:.
Neither during the throw, nor during the fall, marked damage to the chest by Dubinin could not have been formed. Similar injuries occur when rolling through the chest of a massive blunt object. For example, breast trauma, similar to those detected in Dubinina, is characteristic of a traffic accident - a car crossing the chest with the victim lying on his back.
The certificate of forensic medical expert Vozrozhdenniy from May 9, 1959:.
"... On the outer and anterior surface of the left thigh, in the middle third, the diffuse bruise of cyanotic-lilac color in a section measuring 10 x 5 cm, with a hemorrhage into the thickness of the skin ...".
Tumanov:.
Apparently, Lyudmila hit hard on a hard blunt object, or hit her with a similar object.
The certificate of forensic medical expert Vozrozhdenniy from May 9, 1959:.
"Horns of the hyoid bone of unusual mobility." Then comes the word "broken", but the expert in the Act hid it.
Tumanov:.
It is not clear that the expert considers them normal mobility, because in norm, with a whole bone, they are immovable in general. Why are they mobile (pathology of the structure, fracture, if fracture, then where) in the Act is not described. If the bone was actually broken, then it is impossible to tell whether this fracture is alive or not, since the Act does not describe the nature of the soft tissues surrounding the bone. The study of the hyoid bone was not carried out.
Loose-Cannon
25-09-2017 22:15 (GMT)
Thanks to the fine interweb detection abilities of KMM, we have a recent analysis of the criminal case, studied by forensic expert Eduard Tumanov! Tumanov is a highly regarded modern Russian forensic expert.
RUSTEM SLOBODIN (found on the slope of Mount Holatchahl).
The certificate of forensic medical expert of the Vozrozhdenniy from March 8, 1959 :.
"... edema of the meninges, fullness of the internal organs, Wischnewsky spots on the stomach mucosa ... The dura mater of the cyanosis, the vessels of its weak blood filling. Under the dura mater, up to 75 cc was kept. cm, bloody fluid, mild cloudy, red-greenish color. The substance of the brain is a formless mass of greenish-red color with indistinguishable contours of the ventricles of the brain, as well as gray and white matter ... ".
Tumanov:.
With such a transformation of the brain, it is impossible to see edema of the meninges.
The certificate of forensic medical expert of Vozrozhdenniy from March 9, 1959:.
"From the anterior margin of the scales of the left temporal bone ... upwards of the frontal bone segment there is a bone fracture with a divergence of the edges up to 0.1 cm, crack length up to 6 cm. ... Under the dura mater, up to 75 cm3 of bloody fluid was contained.".
Tumanov:.
This trauma was formed as a result of a blow by a solid blunt object or from a blow to the head about such an object.
The certificate of forensic medical expert of Vozrozhdenniy from March 9, 1959:.
"The absence of a pronounced cerebral hemorrhage gives reason to believe that Slobodin's death occurred precisely as a result of his freezing.".
Tumanov:.
This assertion is unreasonable. There was blood under the dura mater. And this gives all grounds to say that Slobodin had a subdural hemorrhage (hemorrhage under the dura mater). According to available data it is impossible to exclude the onset of Slobodin's death as a result of craniocerebral trauma.
The certificate of forensic medical expert of Vozrozhdenniy from March 9, 1959:.
"The back of the nose is straight, on the dorsal side of the nose and in the region of the tip of the nose soft tissue is brownish-red. On the tip of the nose is a section of soft tissues under a dry brown-cherry crust measuring 1.5 x 1 cm. ".
Tumanov:.
Traces of secretions of parched blood formed as a result of a trauma to the nose.
The certificate of forensic medical expert of Vozrozhdenniy from March 9, 1959:.
"... In the region of the metacarpophalangeal joints of the wrists, the deposition of the protruding parts of the soft tissues in the areas of 8 x 1.5 cm, covered with dry parchment density, is lower than the skin level. On the ulnar edge of the left hand, the brown-cherry coloring parchment density of 6 x 2 cm with the transition of sedimentation to the lateral surface of the finger of the left hand. ".
Tumanov:.
These abrasions could be formed as a result of the action of a solid blunt object, as well as the impact of a fist clenched on a solid object.
Loose-Cannon
25-09-2017 22:09 (GMT)
Thanks to the fine interweb detection abilities of KMM, we have a recent analysis of the criminal case, studied by forensic expert Eduard Tumanov! Tumanov is a highly regarded modern Russian forensic expert.
Now with ZINAIDA KOLMOGOROVA! .
ZINAIDA KOLMOGOROVA (found on the slope of Mount Holatchahl).
The certificate of forensic medical expert of Vozrozhdenniy from March 4, 1959:.
"... In the upper eyelid of the left and right eye, the site of skin firming of dark red color is 5 x 1 cm and 0.5 x 0.5 cm. On the dorsal side of the nose there is a reddish brown reddish brown, 1 x 0.7 cm in size, on the tip of the nose the same abrasion of the parchment density of 2 x 1 cm. In the area of ??the zygomatic arches, cheeks and chin a variety of abrasions of different shapes and sizes under dry brown color crusts from 6 x 2 cm in size to? x 1 cm and less. ... ".
Tumanov:.
Zina could get these bruises when she fell face down on the snow.
The certificate of forensic medical expert of Vozrozhdenniy from March 4, 1959:.
"... On the back of the right and left hand in the area of ??the metacarpophalangeal and interphalangeal joints, bruise-colored abrasions are dense to the touch, ranging in size from 1.5 x 1 cm to 0.3 x 3 cm. In the rear of the right hand, at the base of the third finger, shape, the angle facing the terminal phalanx in dimensions of 3 x 2.2 cm with uneven edges and scalp skin graft .... ".
Tumanov:.
And these injuries the girl received, most likely, from punching on a solid object. When falling on the snow with an emphasis on the fists, there would be other damage.
The certificate of forensic medical expert of Vozrozhdenniy from March 4, 1959:.
"... In the lumbar region of the right lateral surface of the trunk, right side of the abdomen, the skin is set in a bright red color in the form of a strip measuring 29 x 6 cm ...".
Tumanov:.
It was formed as a result of a blow by a solid blunt object, which had an elongated shape (stick, branch of a tree, etc.).
Nigel Evans
25-09-2017 22:09 (GMT)
Been here, done that, got the Tshirt :- The main sign of death from hypothermia is the presence of the so-called ‘Wischnewsky spots’, described in 1895 by the coroner S.M. Wischnewsky. These spots are found on the gastric mucosa (stomach membrane) in about seventy-five percent of deaths from low temperatures. According to Vozrozhdenniy, all members of the Dyatlov group had Wischnewsky spots. Tumanov questions the possibility of identifying these spots in the last four bodies due to the state of their deep decay; and even for the first five corpses, which were found in a much more preserved condition, it is difficult to give a clear hypothermia diagnosis based on this and other characteristic features of the condition. Tumanov also doubts the possibility of identifying oedema of the brain – one more characteristic of hypothermia. The brain matter in the corpses was ‘a greenish red, jelly-like substance. The grey matter can hardly be distinguished from the white matter. Brain ventricle contours are indistinguishable. The cerebellum matter pattern is poorly distinguished.’ It was improper defrosting that made it impossible to diagnose oedema of the brain. Still Vozrozhdenniy cited it in order to conclude that freezing was the cause of death. He also mentioned cardiac cavities full of liquid dark blood, which cannot qualify as a sign of death from hypothermia because the blood of frozen people is bright red due to high concentrations of oxyhemoglobin. Finally, neither third nor fourth degree frostbite of fingers or toes was observed. Krivonischenko’s report reads ‘terminal phalanx is dry and dark brown in colour’. According to modern experts, these are the signs of post mortem freezing of the body. Five of the group members had facial abrasions. Small abrasions often occur when an exhausted person is crawling in frozen conditions when he or she can injure the skin by rubbing against firm snow or ice. The location of these on the frontal parts of the bodies (faces and hands) excludes possible compression with snow (like in an avalanche). Had this been the case, they would have been observed all over the body evenly. The bodies were not found in the classic foetal position supposedly assumed by a person freezing to death. Doroshenko and Krivonischenko were even found in a pose similar to that of sunbathing on a beach. In fact, the foetal position is found in less than 30% of all cases of death by freezing, and simply suggests that the person still felt cold when he or she died. Dyatlov’s pose is closer to this classical position. Tumanov suggests that Dyatlov was the only one on the slope who really died by hypothermia.
Oss, Svetlana. Don't Go There: Post Mortem (pp. 152-154). LiberWriter.com. Kindle Edition.
Loose-Cannon
25-09-2017 22:07 (GMT)
Thanks to the fine interweb detection abilities of KMM, we have a recent analysis of the criminal case, studied by forensic expert Eduard Tumanov! Tumanov is a highly regarded modern Russian forensic expert.
Now with Igor Dyatlov! .
IGOR DIATLOV WAS VOMITING THE BLOOD.
IGOR DIATLOV (found on the slope of Mount Holatchahl).
The certificate of forensic medical expert of Vozrozhdenniy from March 4, 1959:.
"... a sharp fullness of the internal organs, an overflow of the dark cavities in the cavities of the heart ...".
Tumanov:.
At the autopsy, Igor Dyatlov's internal organs were in rotting state. Therefore, it is incorrect to assert that the internal organs are full of blood, as their structure is modified by postmortem processes. And the presence of dark blood is not a sign of death from hypothermia, on the contrary, when supercooled, the blood is bright red due to the high content of oxyhemoglobin.
The certificate of forensic medical expert of Vozrozhdenniy from March 4, 1959:.
"... on the upper surface of the folds of the stomach on the mucosa is a large number of small hemorrhages, spots Wischnewsky ...".
Tumanov:.
The expert, Vozrozhdenniy interprets petty-hemorrhage as a spot of Wischnewsky. But at the same time, in the stomach of Dyatlov, "about 100 cubic cm of liquid mucous mass of a brownish reddish color", "the mucous membrane of the stomach is lilac-red, swollen," and "the lips are covered with gore".
Most likely, Dyatlov had vomiting before his death with an admixture of blood. The source of bleeding is the gastric mucosa. What caused such a vomiting - poisoning or abnormality of the stomach - can not be established, since there is no case in the materials of the forensic chemical and histological examination.
The certificate of forensic medical expert of Vozrozhdenniy from March 4, 1959:
"... in the region of the forehead on the frontal tubercles, small abrasions are dark red, in the region of the left superciliary arena a brownish-red abrasion, parchment density rises above the surface of the skin, on the upper eyelids small brown-red abrasions, on the nose and tip of the nose - red color of parchment density, 2 x 1.5 cm in size, in the area of ??both cheekbones, abrasions of reddish-brown color under a dry crust 3 x 1.5 x 1 cm, 3 x 0.5 cm, on the left, and on the right small abrasions . In the region of the left cheek, small abrasions are dark brown in parchment density. In the area of ??the knee joints on the right and on the left, grazes of dark red color, 1 x 0.5 cm in size and 0.5 by 0.5 cm in parchment density without hemorrhage into the underlying tissues ... ".
Tumanov :.
Igor could get these bruises when he fell on the snow.
The certificate of forensic medical expert of Vozrozhdenniy from March 4, 1959:.
"... In the region of the left ankle joint on the anterior lateral and posterior surfaces, in the areas of both ankles bruised-red abrasions are impressed over the surface of the skin, and also at the skin level, measuring 1 x 0.5 cm, up to 3 x 2; 5 cm, with a hemorrhage into the underlying soft tissues. In the area of ??abrasions one cut is visible, in the lower third of the right shin the skin is covered by 4 x 2 cm ... ".
Tumanov:.
But these damage from falling on the snow will not get. They could appear from circular compression in the ankle, for example as a result of binding by a rope.
The certificate of forensic medical expert of Vozrozhdenniy from March 4, 1959:.
"... In the region of the metacarpophalangeal articulations and interphalangeal articulations, soft lacquer-lilac, parchment-dense tissues are covered with dry, crusty crusts with hemorrhage into the underlying tissues. The left brush is a brown-lilac color with brown-red color, parchment density, 1 by 0.5 cm in size, and 2 by 0.2 cm. The skin is in the area of ??the back surface of the 2nd 4th finger ... ".
Tumanov:.
Obviously, shortly before his death, Igor had to hit with a brush, clenched into a fist, over a hard object.
Loose-Cannon
25-09-2017 22:03 (GMT)
Thank to the fine interweb detection abilities of KMM, we have a recent analysis of the criminal case, studied by forensic expert Eduard Tumanov! Tumanov is a highly regarded modern Russian forensic expert.
Now with Yuri Krivonishenko!.
Yuri Krivonishenko (found next to Doroshenko).
The certificate of forensic medical expert of Vozrozhdenniy from March 4, 1959:.
"... in the right temporal region and the occipital region a diffuse hemorrhage with impregnation of the right temporal muscle ...".
Tumanov:.
It's strange, but Krivonischenko's craniocerebral trauma is only in the description of the act, and in conclusion about the reasons for his death there is none. But this damage was formed as a result of a blow (or blows) by a solid blunt object (or objects) in the right temporal and occipital areas of the head of Yuri. It can not be ruled out that the trauma could be obtained by falling from the standing position and by hitting the right temporal and occipital areas of the head against a hard blunt object. With such a trauma there could be hemorrhages in the brain, but the disintegration of the brain substance in Krivonishchenko destroyed all the informative signs.
The certificate of forensic medical expert of Vozrozhdenniy from March 4, 1959:.
"... on the middle phalanx of the middle finger (right hand, - Auth.), The epidermal defect in shape and size coincides with that found in the oral cavity ...".
Tumanov:.
Again the same rake. In the description of the act about the bite is written, and in the conclusion about death - not a word. But this one line gives reason to believe that Krivonishenko himself bitten himself by the finger, snatching a piece of leather. What does it mean? Perhaps Yuri tried to restrain the cry with severe pain. Perhaps, it was important that someone at that moment did not hear it.
The certificate of forensic medical expert of Vozrozhdenniy from March 4, 1959:.
"... On the inner surface of the upper third of the left thigh, there are three dermal wounds of a linear shape with even margins as deep as 0.3 cm with sharp angles of 1.5 to 0.4 cm ...".
Tumanov:.
I can assume that these "wounds" - cuts - were formed from a sharp object. Knife, glass, blade - anything.
The certificate of forensic medical expert of Vozrozhdenniy from March 4, 1959:.
"... In the middle part of the forehead, a section of a 0.3-by-0.3 cm round-shaped precipitation is of a brownish-red color of parchment density. ... In the left temporal region, two abrasions of a brownish-red color of parchment density, a size of 1.2 to 0.3 cm and 1 cm to 0.2 cm ... ".
Tumanov:.
It is doubtful that these abrasions were formed when the person fell face down on the snow. Then the nose and the superciliary arches would be buried, and there would be more scratches on the forehead. These abrasions of Krivonischenko from blows with a solid blunt object (or hitting against similar objects) at an acute angle.
The certificate of forensic medical expert of Vozrozhdenniy from March 4, 1959:.
"Burns of the left thigh and shin 2-3 degrees (near the fire)".
Tumanov:.
Suppose, second-degree burns can be obtained by negligence, falling asleep at the fire. But third-degree burns are charring (!) Of soft tissues. To achieve this effect, you need to keep your feet in the fire for a long time. Get in a dream such a burn is impossible, burns already 1-st degree cause severe pain and awakening. In this case, third-degree burns could be formed if a person was in deep depression, for example, into intoxication (he did not feel pain or could not pull his leg off, - Auth.) Next to a strong fire.
The certificate of forensic medical expert of Vozrozhdenniy from March 4, 1959:.
"... In the middle third of the nose a brown-red abrasion, parchment density, passing into the wound in the tip of the nose and wings with a defect of soft tissues measuring 1.8 x 2 cm, the bottom of the wound is the cartilage of the nasal septum, right nasal passage ...".
Tumanov:.
Wounds on the nose are caused by animals and after the death of Yuri. Otherwise, there would be traces of bleeding.
Loose-Cannon
25-09-2017 22:00 (GMT)
Thank to the fine interweb detection abilities of KMM, we have a recent analysis of the criminal case, studied by forensic expert Eduard Tumanov! Tumanov is a highly regarded modern Russian forensic expert.
Lets start with Yuri Doroshenko!
It is impossible to confirm that two people were frozen at the bonfire
YURI DOROSHENKO (found under the cedar near the remains of the fire)
The certificate of forensic medical expert of Vozrozhdenniy from March 4, 1959:
"... Doroshenko's death came as a result of exposure to low temperature, ... as evidenced by edema of the meninges, a sharp plethora of internal organs, a dark liquid overflowing the heart cavities, the presence of Wischnewsky spots on the stomach mucosa, bladder overflow, frostbite of the limbs and burn II - III degrees around the fire. " .
Tumanov: .
Given the putrefaction of the corpse, it is highly doubtful that a forensic expert could see all of the above signs at the autopsy. Thus, Vozrozhdenniy, in support of the diagnosis, writes - "... as evidenced by the swelling of the meninges ..." at the same time, at the autopsy reports - "... The substance of the brain is a mass of a jelly-like reddish-green color. Gray matter of the brain is hardly distinguishable from white matter. The contours of the lateral ventricles of the brain are hardly distinguishable ... ".
With such a transformation of the brain, it is impossible to see the swelling of the meninges! .
The presence of dark blood is not a sign of death from hypothermia, on the contrary, when supercooled, the blood is bright red due to the high content of oxyhemoglobin.
The resulted statement about a frostbite of fingers of extremities is not proved. There is nothing about this in the text of the study.
These circumstances (see General Comment, point 3) allow us to say that Doroshenko's death came as a result of hypothermia, only in a hypothetical form.
Loose-Cannon
25-09-2017 21:13 (GMT)
KMM... sent you a message
Lyndasez
25-09-2017 21:10 (GMT)
@KMM, (That's the part I must of missed. Maybe you haven't got to it yet.)
Lol, hey don't knock it, like you say, a lot of unsolved murders could be solved!
Nigel's got Roller BL...
I call Cyberknife BL! ...That covers the Ripper and Black Dahlia mysteries!!!
Loose-Cannon
25-09-2017 21:09 (GMT)
TRANSLATION .
"he convinced me that no such facilities were nearby and no possibility of missile launches." . Nothing to see here.... move along now (pat on the head).
"But, there was one instance that put us on the alert. When the last bodies were found later in May, an order came to collect all items found at the pass and send them for radiological examination". The first bodies showed us something your not allowed to know about which is why Im ordering you to test for radiation.
"Also, all people who had been in contact with the things found in the tent and nearby were ordered to undergo body counting." While your at it... test all these ground peasants that were at the tent and touched crap also.
" So it was done, but neither a reassuring, nor any other results were made known to us. And again, the fact of some secret military tests being held was coming to mind." . This is way above your paygrade... go look for some fireballs or something.
"We applied with a letter signed by the Oblast Prosecutor to either the Prosecutor General of the USSR or the Federal – I don’t remember exactly now – asking to explain what really we were investigating into? And how it was related to radiation? Could it be so that even the top commandant of the Urals Military District knew nothing of any tests of armaments held there? In response to our letter, Deputy Prosecutor General, comrade Urakov came to meet with us and gave orders that we were to all tell anyone who asked that the hikers’ death was an accident". Listen up peasant... Not only am I NOT going to answer your question, but I came all the way down here to personally tell you to shut your big fat mouth about radiation and tell everyone it was an "accident".
"Urakov evaded all our direct questions about tests of armaments. I mean, he did not deny this version, but simply avoided direct answers." . Pft.... this is on a need to know basis and your not in the loop.
"What’s more, Urakov took absolutely no interest in the course of our investigation, as if the picture of the scene was absolutely clear to him already. He, however, took the case away with him." . We know something that you dont, so we are yanking the rug out from under you.
"With that, our investigation came to an end. Just imagine: at the very height of the investigation, when dead bodies with strange injuries have just been found, the case is being taken away!" . CLEAR EVIDENCE OF A COVERUP
"And I clearly remember when we were signing our letter in the office of Oblast Prosecutor Klinov, he himself asked in doubt whether we had omitted something and had not fully checked one or the other evidence? We told him that if the top officials discard the military incident version, then all is left to us is to consider other possible versions. He found our considerations convincing, and signed the letter. But, again, the reaction from Moscow was such that our suppositions of a military involvement had been neither confirmed nor disproved..." . You go look for leprechauns and unicorns little boy, you are done here.
Nigel Evans
25-09-2017 21:04 (GMT)
@KMM - "What facts does it address that you couldn't take the BL out and replace with almost anything "
Be my guest.
@Lightning - aren't there youtube videos of stuff like this? People filming their path?
Lightning
25-09-2017 20:38 (GMT)
It would be nice if somebody takes a journey from dent site to the forest where two Yuris died and from there to the ravine and films it... Anybody here who has some cash to spent?
KMM
25-09-2017 20:28 (GMT)
Nigel: What fact wrt the DPI does the BL theory not address? And what's this agenda i have?
What facts does it address that you couldn't take the BL out and replace with almost anything ?
Nigel Evans
25-09-2017 20:23 (GMT)
@LC - the superior admitted that they had no solution to the DPI his point was that the investigation was removed from them by Central office unsolved with orders for them to fabricate a dummy report as an "accident" and tough it out with parents of the deceased. So that's well worth remembering when shouting about official case files. Ivanov restated his fireball theory many years later, so it's reasonable to assume it was his genuine view and his best guess.
What fact wrt the DPI does the BL theory not address? And what's this agenda i have?
Loose-Cannon
25-09-2017 20:09 (GMT)
Yeah, they guy with a superior that admits it was a white-wash cover-up witch left Ivanov speculating and changing his theory for decades.
You see things ass backwards imho.
"The BL theory is a first class fit for the facts"
No Nigel, it is not.. it fits only false facts you have construed to push an agenda.
Nigel Evans
25-09-2017 19:37 (GMT)
@KMM - au contraire mon ami. The BL theory is a first class fit for the facts and is favoured by the chief detective described as "meticulous and very thorough" by his superiors )
KMM
25-09-2017 19:22 (GMT)
Nigel Evans 25-09-2017 18:51 (GMT) - well i'm burdened with trying to find a theory to fit the facts.
That's the part I must of missed. Maybe you haven't got to it yet.
Nigel Evans
25-09-2017 19:16 (GMT)
@LC -
The ravine is only nine feet deep. Oss, Svetlana. Don't Go There: Post Mortem (p. 120). LiberWriter.com. Kindle Edition.
I think that picture of the den is the depth of the ravine. Doesn't rule out an overhang/wind slab though.
@Lyndasez - best of luck.
Lyndasez
25-09-2017 18:54 (GMT)
Nigel, The same with the least amount of wild assumptions!
Nigel Evans
25-09-2017 18:51 (GMT)
@Lyndasez - well i'm burdened with trying to find a theory to fit the facts. Don't know what you're doing.
Loose-Cannon
25-09-2017 18:46 (GMT)
This was taken somewhere in the area of DP. I would imagine something of this nature in the ravine but on a smaller scale.
Its down in a ditch with boulders at the bottom, thats for certain. Those are just the pics I have on file. You can easily imagine a snow bank/drift on one side adding height/angle/distance to the bottom.
Lightning
25-09-2017 18:23 (GMT)
Thank you Loose Cannon. Doesn't look very steep tough......
Lyndasez
25-09-2017 18:18 (GMT)
Nigel, Then you are a glutton for punishment ...
Your theory has too many outlandish assumptions.
BL without leaving traces...
Special KGB cameras
Terrified experienced hikers who flee an extraordinary occurrence, yet, ordinary locals don't put their lives in jeopardy
A triage set up in the ravine
SZ taking notes in the throes of death
Explosions that have an impact on people yet leaves the area untouched
KGB film left at scene and disseminated
The hikers maps were approved
They deliberately went where the coordinates of BL were noted
(Inspection report of the scene Sheet 3 Inspection report Places of Incident February 27, 1959)
Which I used to tell Nigel, the Russian info is not to be trusted....because one thing says this and another negates it...that all.
Loose-Cannon
25-09-2017 16:49 (GMT)
The finger missing was part of an interview/interrogation/testimony.... The person was simply wrong.
This was not part of the official autopsy or any other file in which a determination was established.
Lyndasez
25-09-2017 16:36 (GMT)
Loose-Cannon, Nigel is misbehaving, for fun!
Lyndasez
25-09-2017 16:29 (GMT)
No matter the proof. Official docs shouldn't have these discrepancies....or should be amended. That was my initial point...
Loose-Cannon
25-09-2017 16:28 (GMT)
"@LC - i'm assuming that the examination of the SZ film was competent. Your argument is that it was incompetent or disingenuous. Posting images of negs from other peoples cameras to prove this is just pointless"
Incorrect again. The only person conducting themselves with misinformation propaganda to fit a narrative is..... you.
A negative with sprocket holes is a negative with sprocket holes. Your holy grail pictures are scans of negatives, and the light areas would have been dark areas when developed.
This isn't freaking rocket science..... There are no mysterious pictures of fireballs of light. Fact
Lyndasez
25-09-2017 16:27 (GMT)
Nigel, The whole index finger is obscured in that photo as well...
LC, Nigel is having fun with you... :c)
Loose-Cannon
25-09-2017 16:23 (GMT)
"The skin on the back of the left palm is torn off{{.Between the fingers is blood. The index finger is ripped off."
Left.. left... left.
Its redundant anyhow and I likely shouldnt have posted it. The statement came from a university search party individual as he recalled the cedar scene.
@LC - i'm assuming that the examination of the SZ film was competent. Your argument is that it was incompetent or disingenuous. Posting images of negs from other peoples cameras to prove this is just pointless.
Lyndasez
25-09-2017 16:15 (GMT)
LC, Did you post the right pic? Because the index finger if it's there, is hidden by his hair??
The ripped off finger part I posted specifically to show the inconsistencies within accounts vs the actual autopsy report. I know the finger was not ripped off because you can count them all in the photo. http://image.ibb.co/b4h4W5/krivonishenko_07_02.jpg .
@Nigel- "you're assuming SZ's camera was standard, the negs you're showing aren't from his camera." . Your assuming that SZs camera was NOT standard. Then what camera were they from??
Lyndasez
25-09-2017 15:57 (GMT)
Nigel, They are masters at disinformation & coverup. For example: LC says: a finger is ripped off. You say: not true!
Well your both right according to offical docs, autopsy doesn't say so. However inspection at the scene does!
Sheet 4. Identified: Krivonischenko Yuri
"The skin on the back of the left palm is torn off{{.Between the fingers is blood. The index finger is ripped off. }}The skin on the lower leg of the left leg was torn off, blood came out. There are no other injuries during the external examination. Next to him with Krivonischenko, is the corpse of Zolotarev? (from above it is written in parentheses: "mistake" Alexander Alekseevich."
Nigel Evans
25-09-2017 15:53 (GMT)
Military accident - Doesn't explain why a high ranking legal official would travel 400 miles to attend 5 autopsies over three days.
It's weirder than an accident?
@LC - you're assuming SZ's camera was standard, the negs you're showing aren't from his camera.
Nigel Evans
25-09-2017 15:49 (GMT)
Doesn't explain why a high ranking legal official would travel 400 miles to attend 5 autopsies over three days.
Loose-Cannon
25-09-2017 15:46 (GMT)
"@LC - casts the official case file in a new light though. It's a dummy with the real one being elsewhere."
Cant rule it out!
In my opinion though, Its more likely that information and files within 1 case simply went poof which makes everyone observing it in totality missing several key ingredients.
Note... The holes are opposite colors simply because the trips held to the window and were backlighted with white light. The other was scanned which attributes a black background to this area.
Nigel Evans
25-09-2017 15:40 (GMT)
@LC - casts the official case file in a new light though. It's a dummy with the real one being elsewhere.
Lyndasez
25-09-2017 15:39 (GMT)
Nigel, "EO thinks the deaths are connected with rocket testing."
Could be! At a certain elevation rocket boosters fall away from main body of the craft and fall to earth, where? who knows but a cleanup crew picks it up.
Loose-Cannon
25-09-2017 15:26 (GMT)
Everyone had their opinion.
Could be, maybe, prehaps, maybe not. The only thing this clears up for me is the fact a major cover-up took place. Something embarrassing to the Kremlin.
Nigel Evans
25-09-2017 15:12 (GMT)
Then there's an interview with EO and a defence lawyer, Leonid Proshkin who had studied the case.
It goes on to say that a further site inspection once the snows had melted as abandoned because they couldn't get a permit... Central office refusing the criminal investigation team further access to the site. Central party figures present at the five autopsies was highly unusual.
Central office basically closed the case and instructed EO and Ivanov to state it was an accident and "rig" the report to fit that. EO states how good Ivanov was as an investigator describing him as meticulous and very thorough. He says they found it quite stressfull dealing with the parents who wanted answers but they had to follow orders.
Missing documentation is noted, all the personel on the case would be assigned via official orders but this is missing.
EO thinks the deaths are connected with rocket testing.
Lyndasez
25-09-2017 12:33 (GMT)
Nigel, Yeah, lol, okay! ;c)
Nigel Evans
25-09-2017 12:23 (GMT)
@Lyndasez - LC seems to have bought the "it's not developed story", just bursting his buuble and pointing out it's not that simple.
Anyway Semyon's camera could be a special KGB camera, who knows what it could do .
Nigel Evans
25-09-2017 10:49 (GMT)
Good to see you guys still discussing the BL theory in lieu of anything better.... Gives me the confidence to go on in my lonely struggle for truth and wisdom.
@KMM - i'm still waiting for the next theory to complement the two heard so far... Wind and then flapping tent, how do you come up with this stuff? Unrecognised genius? Possibly going to stay that way...
@IVANOV - i don't have that many roubles in my piggy bank. How about 2 Euros and a copy of Kylie Minogues, "I can't get you out of my head" and a piece of chewing gum?
IVANOV
25-09-2017 03:10 (GMT)
Send me 521,659 Rubles and Ill tell you everything you need to know.
Lyndasez
25-09-2017 03:01 (GMT)
LC & KMM, Omg...lol, let the guy come up for air!!!
He's a good sport------> "@IVANOV - hi there i could use some help with this motley crew."
KMM
25-09-2017 02:09 (GMT)
Loose-Cannon 25-09-2017 01:11 (GMT) Caught me a fireball the other night with my cellphone! 8^O .
Have you got stopped running yet ? :-P
Loose-Cannon
25-09-2017 01:11 (GMT)
Caught me a fireball the other night with my cellphone! 8^O .
see those sprocket holes? That thar is a negative. This means Nigels white orb is a black shit stain when developed.
Lyndasez
24-09-2017 23:10 (GMT)
They took SZs film processed it, meaning subjected it to chemicals to make it insensitive to light, they have an negative, reverse image ...they place that on a contact sheet expose it to light which places a positive image on the sheet, when chemically developed the image appears.
Think they'd say photo or contact if this were true, not negative.
Lyndasez
24-09-2017 23:01 (GMT)
"on the {{negatives}}were small black dots and some very small pale dots. To the human eye, these dots could not be identified. These dots were nothing like the much larger frame of the bright orb."
The black dots could be light, hard to say they're clearly examining a compromised negative. They're playin you....we're lookin for black orbs on a negative.
KMM
24-09-2017 22:41 (GMT)
Loose-Cannon 24-09-2017 22:38 (GMT) "Doesn't matter, anyway, unless we're looking at "developed film," you're looking at a reverse image (negative)." .
Bingo.... Nigels black orbs have no light. lol
I'm sure he will say "DARK BL", related to dark matter. :-)
Loose-Cannon
24-09-2017 22:38 (GMT)
"Doesn't matter, anyway, unless we're looking at "developed film," you're looking at a reverse image (negative)." .
Bingo.... Nigels black orbs have no light. lol
Lyndasez
24-09-2017 22:21 (GMT)
Doesn't matter, anyway, unless we're looking at "developed film," you're looking at a reverse image (negative).
Lyndasez
24-09-2017 22:17 (GMT)
@Nigel, "It is claimed that under a microscope they can be seen to be exposures."
Yes, the film was over exposed due to the elements, meaning it's garbage. Same would happen if you took photos with a roll of film then unraveled the film in a lit area or swished it in water. Those exposures you took are now toast!
Nigel Evans
24-09-2017 22:07 (GMT)
@LC - "now debunked. They are negatives which is evident by the film gear slots and thus." It is claimed that under a microscope they can be seen to be exposures.
Lyndasez
24-09-2017 21:59 (GMT)
@KMM, Yeah, sorry, but he's pissin in the wind with this BL theory. First he says it "hit the den area vaporizing snow with heat stronger than the sun," but left a twig seat intact, there's no massive amounts of solid ice, snapped trees, or burnt victims!?..
Now it's accounts of people seeing lights --one so close he thought planets were colliding, but these kids defied death to run from it an stay away...?!
KMM
24-09-2017 21:42 (GMT)
Lyndasez: Hell, those folks in the story Nigel posted didn't jump out windows! However, there was a boat load of destruction in its path, which Nigel hasn't accounted in his DPI theory! I don't think the crews of any of the sailing ship accounts jumped overboard and swam for the open ocean either>
Lyndasez
24-09-2017 20:55 (GMT)
Given the background of this group, radio engineers, secret nuclear plant workers, Physics Major, and War survivor ....something tells me these cats don't scare easy... Alex would've wanted his pic taken beside BL, and the rest would be fighting over who saw it first!
Hell, those folks in the story Nigel posted didn't jump out windows! However, there was a boat load of destruction in its path, which Nigel hasn't accounted in his DPI theory!
KMM
24-09-2017 20:47 (GMT)
Nigel Evans 24-09-2017 19:34 (GMT) @KMM - three eye witness accounts in two months (from memory) including the investigation team onsite and the ski group said their's was over Mt Otorten. Not sure about the meteorologist.
Doesn't matter what the zoom is to me, it's what's there after it's zoomed.
So, you have no evidence of what happened to DP group. Just some hearsay stuff about lights seen in sky elsewhere !
Loose-Cannon
24-09-2017 19:41 (GMT)
Nigel..
I hate to be the one that reminds you of this, but other photos shown as SZs are now debunked. They are negatives which is evident by the film gear slots and thus.... Your little blotches at 30x magnification are would actually be black spots if developed. To add insult to injury, they have been proven to reside outside of the viewable rectangle area where the pictures exposure takes place.
Its ALL bs..... Not just the three amigos.
Nigel Evans
24-09-2017 19:34 (GMT)
@KMM - three eye witness accounts in two months (from memory) including the investigation team onsite and the ski group said their's was over Mt Otorten. Not sure about the meteorologist.
Doesn't matter what the zoom is to me, it's what's there after it's zoomed.
KMM
24-09-2017 18:47 (GMT)
Nigel : AT 30X ZOOM !!
KMM
24-09-2017 18:44 (GMT)
@ nigel "A person saying they saw a light in the sky 50 miles away is NOT an eye witness ! " 50km away and how else are they going to witness a light in the sky other than being some distance from it? Except on a mountain top?..
So their just a witness to a light in the sky, NOT, I repeat, NOT a witness to anything to do with the DP group !
Nigel Evans
24-09-2017 18:39 (GMT)
@KMM - "your BL photo got shot down" No, the theory that SZ had a secret camera and the three heads was an original non processed photo got shot down (by my investigation and no one elses ....). But the evidence remains, photos of lights from three cameras. Semyon took a lot of shots, say 10 which at 30x zoom show distinct similarities to eye witness reports. But granted the photographic evidence is not conclusive and open to interpretation. Not so the eye witness reports.
"A person saying they saw a light in the sky 50 miles away is NOT an eye witness ! " 50km away and how else are they going to witness a light in the sky other than being some distance from it? Except on a mountain top?....
KMM
24-09-2017 18:24 (GMT)
Nigel: @KMM - "see, its not that hard " that's far worse than the first attempt. I'm sensing desperation.
The thing is nigel you have NO actual evidence ! your BL photo got shot down A person saying they saw a light in the sky 50 miles away is NOT an eye witness !
Nigel Evans
24-09-2017 17:48 (GMT)
As an aside i've just read this, the spare valenki must have been Rustems, shows the immediacy of their exit from the tent :-
By the entrance was a furnace; baskets; water flasks, one of which was filled with alcohol; a saw; and an axe.Deeper inside were the cameras. Further back was a bag with maps and documents, Dyatlov’s camera, a can containing money, Kolmogorova’s diary and windbreakers belonging to Dyatlov and Kolevatov. In the corner was a bag of rusks and another bag containing breakfast cereal. Next to them was a pair of boots. The other six pairs of boots were at the opposite side of the tent. In the middle of the tent were three pairs of valenki and one single one. Next to the rusks there was a log taken from the place of the previous camp. Above all, there was a ski pole, scored at several places.
Oss, Svetlana. Don't Go There: Post Mortem (pp. 50-51). LiberWriter.com. Kindle Edition.
Nigel Evans
24-09-2017 17:45 (GMT)
@LC - Some people also wonder about something else apparently found in the labaz: Dyatlov’s boots. How could he have skied if he wasn’t wearing his boots? Yudin’s answer was that, with the semi-rigid ‘soldiers’ mount’ (or bracing) that strapped over the top of the footwear, it was possible to ski in valenki and, moreover, Krivonischenko, for one, preferred to ski in these felt boots.
Oss, Svetlana. Don't Go There: Post Mortem (p. 122). LiberWriter.com. Kindle Edition.
Loose-Cannon
24-09-2017 14:05 (GMT)
"maybe his ski boots didn't fit that well".
I would imagine that a well regarded professional and university star of the program on the most important trip of his life to obtain the ultimate goal of level 3........ might have boots that fit.
Nigel Evans
24-09-2017 11:33 (GMT)
@Lyndasez - "Well don't hold back, where was the direction of force, we'd know from collateral damage....where and what would that be??? " From above?
@KMM - "see, its not that hard " that's far worse than the first attempt. I'm sensing desperation..
@LC - bruised ankles maybe his ski boots didn't fit that well.
@IVANOV - hi there i could use some help with this motley crew.
Nigel Evans
24-09-2017 11:22 (GMT)
@Lyndasez - "Well don't hold back, where was the direction of force, we'd know from collateral damage....where and what would that be??? " From above?
KMM
24-09-2017 02:09 (GMT)
LC NOTE: Back and front of both ankles bruised with abrasions and hemorrhaging. Was he dragged or something? Strung upside down? Was he bound at the ankles and relocated? Was his hands bound aswell? His frozen position is strange to me at best.
Yeah,I have seen reports they were roped/used a rope all the way down the slope. Didnt know if it was definite enough to argue
IVANOV
24-09-2017 01:32 (GMT)
Yup... their dead.
D - E - A - D as in dead. Move along now, nothing to see here! Where's me Ivanov vodka?
Oh looky, a squirrel...
KMM
24-09-2017 01:28 (GMT)
Lyndasez 24-09-2017 00:56 (GMT) @KMM, Have you read Nigel's theory? Cedar guys were stuck by lightning... BL creates hot spot (crusted ice) near tent ...but he neglects to explain how these microwaves didn't melt its path or its burst didn't snap and scorch trees.
I've read ALL his comments like he "instructed" me to do right off the bat !!
Lyndasez
24-09-2017 01:26 (GMT)
@LC, Good catch! These bone-heads are covering something up. Thanks again for that hibinaud link cleared up a bunch for me!
Loose-Cannon
24-09-2017 01:11 (GMT)
@Lyndasez
March 4, 1959 The autopsy is done and signed. Within the text states... "On the night of February 2, under unclear circumstances, all 9 people died"
They determined the rav4 dead very early when they could have very well been alive for all they knew as the bodies had not been found.
Basically shithead Ivanov at the time 2yuris, Igor, Rustem, and Zina were just found... declared the rav4 dead. Nigel will tell you its perfectly acceptable, but in reality it shows his utter neglection of duty and pure incompetence.
Loose-Cannon
24-09-2017 01:02 (GMT)
On tonight's episode of "WHAT THE BL GESTAPO DOES NOT WANT YOU TO KNOW"
We take a look at the body if Igor Dyatlov. Why might you ask?? Because its small potatoes!!! .
"STUDIES OF THE CITIZEN DYATLOV Igor Alekseevich, 23 years old on March 4, 1959".
"The cuffs are buttoned. In a breast pocket there was a packing "streptotsid" with 4 tablets". Note: Hmmmmm Guess he has a habit of carrying this around in case of emergencies?
"in the forehead area on the frontal tubercles, small abrasions of a dark red color". NOTE: Abrasion on the forehead. You can see the severity of the 'small' abrasion below. Looks to me like a half dollar size of his scalp is pealed back! Unless.... they are talking about other abrasions of the forehead, which would make this pictured wound UNDOCUMENTED! http://image.ibb.co/c9ONzQ/PkTFfHW2.jpg
"in the region of the left brow, a brown-red abrasion, parchment density rises above the surface of the skin" NOTE: Abrasion left eyebrow, skin of affected area is swollen, or its an open cut with raised edges. You decide.
"small brown abrasions on the upper eyelids". NOTE: Self explanatory.
"on the dorsum of the nose and the tip of the site of the brownish-red color amentnoy density, dimensions 2 x 1.5 cm in both chines abrasion brown-red color under dry crust 3 x 1.5 x 1 cm, 3 x 0.5 cm, -.. the left and right small abrasions". NOTES: I dunno but it sounds like several abrasions of the nose.
"Lips of cyanotic-lilac color, covered with gore". NOTE: Blood, pus, spit.... gore! .
"On the upper jaw teeth white, smooth, rare, on the lower jaw there is no central incisor without a change in the mucous gum" NOTE: From what I understand, he was already missing this tooth. However, this reads as if the gum has not 'changed', or possibly 'recovered'. Knocked out tooth or prior extraction... You decide.
"In the area of ??the knee joints on the right and on the left, grazes of dark red color, measuring 1 x 0.5 cm. 0.5 to 0.5 cm of parchment density without hemorrhage into the underlying tissues". NOTE: I would kinda expect these crawling around and whatnot.
"In the region of the left ankle sushutava on the anterior lateral and posterior surfaces, in areas of both ankles bruise-red abrasions, colors pressed over the surface of the skin, as well as on ???? skin, size 1 x 0.5 cm, up to 3 x 2, 5 cm, with a hemorrhage into the underlying soft tissue. " NOTE: Back and front of both ankles bruised with abrasions and hemorrhaging. Was he dragged or something? Strung upside down? Was he bound at the ankles and relocated? Was his hands bound aswell? His frozen position is strange to me at best. http://image.ibb.co/dXT865/dyatloff_igor.jpg . The murder theorist are going to rake Nigel over the coals with this on imo.
"on the outer side in the lower third of the right forearm, on the palmar surface, small abrasions of dark red color of parchment density". Note: Outside of the right forearm abrasions.
"The rear of the right hand is lilac-gray in color. In the region of the metacarpophalangeal articulations and between the phalangeal joints, soft lacquer-lilac, parchment-dense tissues are covered with dry, crusty crusts with hemorrhage into the underlying tissues". Note: Right back of hand is discolored, and the metacarpophalangeal articulations (knuckle joints) are dry and crusty with bleeding into the underlying tissue of the hand. These are the knuckles closest to the body of the hand...... the ones effected when punching something, or someone.
"In the region of the palmar surface of the 2nd 5th finger, the cutaneous wound of an irregularly linear shape with even edges located transversely to the long finger of the fingers, wounds of a surface depth of 0.1 (or 0.2 - approx.) See Bones and cartilages of the skeleton at feeling whole". NOTE: Somewhere on the left hand middle AND ring finger cutaneous (of the skin) wound /wounds that are literally busted open down to the bone.
Lyndasez
24-09-2017 00:59 (GMT)
@Loose Cannon, Hey, what was up with that previous post about proceedings?...what didn't I see??
"Sorry if this is off-topic, but does anyone else see what Im seeing here"
Lyndasez
24-09-2017 00:56 (GMT)
@KMM, Have you read Nigel's theory? Cedar guys were stuck by lightning... BL creates hot spot (crusted ice) near tent ...but he neglects to explain how these microwaves didn't melt its path or its burst didn't snap and scorch trees.
Loose-Cannon
24-09-2017 00:45 (GMT)
Igor autopsy coming up....
KMM
24-09-2017 00:44 (GMT)
OK Nigel, The windward side of the tent was ripped open by powerful wind. inflating the tent and filling it with blowing snow. It is bouncing up and down in the wind threatening to blow down the slope. someone takes a knife and slits the other side to let some wind out and maybe create an exit. The group has panicked (remember it happens with BL ) thinking they are going to be launched in the air and down the slope. so they leave, get blown around on the rocks and ice.
see, its not that hard
KMM
24-09-2017 00:27 (GMT)
Nigel Evans 23-09-2017 23:50 (GMT) @KMM - "I don't see it ! I could craft several theories to fit, none containing BL. How about a freakish strong wind lasting a few hours. " and you'd leave the tent half dressed? Maybe the next of your several theories will be better.
You need to remember you are arguing BL !!!! 8-)
Lyndasez
24-09-2017 00:17 (GMT)
@Nigel, "it all depends on the direction of the force?"
Well don't hold back, where was the direction of force, we'd know from collateral damage....where and what would that be???
Lyndasez
24-09-2017 00:13 (GMT)
Nigel, Question is ...why'd Thibi n SZ have boots? You don't suit up to take a pee. And if you're going with SZ was there to film it, he'd have calmed the situation, he knew panicking an running out half dressed was deadly.
Loose-Cannon
23-09-2017 23:56 (GMT)
"My ass is sitting on top of the hill"
If so, its a long long looooong way to hit rock bottom.
Hey,.. is there a boulder filled ravine at the bottom? That would be great. thanks. ROFLMAO
Nigel Evans
23-09-2017 23:54 (GMT)
@Lyndasez - "seats blown to oblivion" it all depends on the direction of the force?
Nigel Evans
23-09-2017 23:53 (GMT)
@LC - i like you to sometimes. My ass is sitting on top of the hill..
Nigel Evans
23-09-2017 23:51 (GMT)
Hell Lynda seven didn't have boots or gloves?
Nigel Evans
23-09-2017 23:50 (GMT)
@KMM - "I don't see it ! I could craft several theories to fit, none containing BL. How about a freakish strong wind lasting a few hours. " and you'd leave the tent half dressed? Maybe the next of your several theories will be better....
Lyndasez
23-09-2017 23:40 (GMT)
@Nigel, "They leave the tent in their socks. No felt boots or gloves."
Had you read my post about the victims....
Thibi had felt boots.
SZ was maxed out, he had quilted burki.
"Men wore a special kind of valenki called burki. The bottom looked like leather boots, but upper part was made of white felt, framed with dark leather strips to protect from moisture and to contrast white felt. In Soviet times burki were worn by military officers, and heads of collective farms."
Hence, no 9th track, the warm barefeet left tracks (ice crust) till they cooled...
KMM
23-09-2017 23:40 (GMT)
Nigel: They leave the tent in their socks. No felt boots or gloves. They walk to the cedar with no sign of any other tracks, leaving a flashlight at a position suggesting a beacon to assist the return. They light a fire at the cedar, seemingly unable to return to the tent and make use of a den 70m away. (the den was found because of a trail of branch fragments used to construct the seats leading into the ravine snow, so they did use it even if they didn't construct it). Pathologist talks of ravine injuries requiring superhuman force suggesting energy similar to a car accident or a bomb.
I don't see it ! I could craft several theories to fit, none containing BL. How about a freakish strong wind lasting a few hours.
Loose-Cannon
23-09-2017 23:09 (GMT)
Nigel.
Your last post is precisely what I am talking about.
"They walk to the cedar with no sign of any other tracks, leaving a flashlight at a position suggesting a beacon to assist the return." . #1IIRC there wasn't any footprints to count or tracks in the treeline and into the ravine to observe, so in reality there could have been 300 people walking around down there and nobody would have ever known it. #2 Could have been a potty light also. WE DONT KNOW
"They light a fire at the cedar, seemingly unable to return to the tent and make use of a den 70m away. (the den was found because of a trail of branch fragments used to construct the seats" #1 Its a long ways back up there to a destroyed tent, or was it destroyed? WE DONT KNOW #2 Bingo... They did NOT find the den (if there was a den) because of foot tracks. how many people were in the treeline/ravine? WE DONT KNOW
"Injuries ambiguous or otherwise, slits internal or external etc etc are small potatoes compared to what caused the above." #1 When you dont know what the above answers are (you may think you do, but you dont)... better start looking at smaller potatoes! #2 I wouldnt expect you to look for indications of not BL probabilities.... your not going to change now. # #3 Imagine that.... someone you know found dead. Would you expect all the potatoes to be looked at especially their physical injuries? Unbelievable
"Of course the BL theory knocks these questions down like skittles." Incorrect sir as your questions are bias and relatively invalid to begin with. This is exactly the arrogance I speak of, and the narrow mindedness that gets all of us no where.
"My problem with your thinking is that you're ignoring the big questions and trying reverse engineer a solution by proving that the injury profile shows human violence when an experienced policemen didn't see that. It's your mission to find a non BL solution at all costs, i'm just sitting at the top of the hill enjoying the view and throwing rocks at you, no offence :@)"
#1 laff... Nigel, Cmon man..... Your mad because Its to show all readers your unwillingness to accept critical information and otherwise attempt to discard it because it is non conforming to your narrative.
#2 Fighting within themselves in of itself does not eradicate your BL theory. How do you know a fight didnt ensue after having been forced to the treeline by a fireball? Why would that make/break your theory?
Nigel... I like ya man (some times), but you have got to get that head out of the anus asap.
Lyndasez
23-09-2017 22:45 (GMT)
@LC "Sorry if this is off-topic, but does anyone else see what Im seeing here"
What's goin on, what am not seeing?
Lyndasez
23-09-2017 22:36 (GMT)
"They light a fire at the cedar, seemingly unable to return to the tent and make use of a den 70m away. (the den was found because of a trail of branch fragments used to construct the seats leading into the ravine snow, so they did use it even if they didn't construct it). Pathologist talks of ravine injuries requiring superhuman force suggesting energy similar to a car accident or a bomb."
Umm, the docs say 8 followed a trail to ravine, two branched off, (direction of cedar?) where's the 9th?
The den couch, they all put scraps of clothes down in all 4 corners for seats as in pic and don't burn the darn seat for warmth, come on...that seat would've been blown to oblivion, if Rollin BL threw 4 people everywhere!
Nigel Evans
23-09-2017 22:23 (GMT)
@LC - "Why does this 'have' to be ALL BL or nothing for you? Help me to understand this reasoning. "
It doesn't. It's just that there isn't anything else that comes close. Lets trot through the key points yet again.
They leave the tent in their socks. No felt boots or gloves. They walk to the cedar with no sign of any other tracks, leaving a flashlight at a position suggesting a beacon to assist the return. They light a fire at the cedar, seemingly unable to return to the tent and make use of a den 70m away. (the den was found because of a trail of branch fragments used to construct the seats leading into the ravine snow, so they did use it even if they didn't construct it). Pathologist talks of ravine injuries requiring superhuman force suggesting energy similar to a car accident or a bomb.
So those four lines are the BIG issues to solve. Injuries ambiguous or otherwise, slits internal or external etc etc are small potatoes compared to what caused the above.
That's the problem to be solved. Of course the BL theory knocks these questions down like skittles. Then there's the supporting info, eye witness accounts and photographs from three cameras (granted there's room for interpretation) of light phenomena. Ok burnt trees and dead birds are just curiosities.
My problem with your thinking is that you're ignoring the big questions and trying reverse engineer a solution by proving that the injury profile shows human violence when an experienced policemen didn't see that. It's your mission to find a non BL solution at all costs, i'm just sitting at the top of the hill enjoying the view and throwing rocks at you, no offence :@)
Loose-Cannon
23-09-2017 22:15 (GMT)
Sorry if this is off-topic, but does anyone else see what Im seeing here in the opening statements of the autopsy reports of Igor, Rustem, Zina, and the 2Yuris?
This is Igors... all structured the same.
"STUDIES OF THE CITIZEN DYATLOV Igor Alekseevich, 23 years old
March 4, 1959, according to the decision of the Prosecutor's Office of the Sverdlovsk region of March 3, 1959 forensic experts of the Regional Bureau of Forensic Medical Examination of the Sverdlovsk Region VOZROZHDENNIY V.A. and Laptev Yu.I. in the presence of the Public Prosecutor of the Sverdlovsk Region, the State Counselor of Justice of the third class, Klinov NI, prosecutor of the criminal prosecutor of the regional prosecutor's office of the Junior Adviser of Justice IVANOV L.N. and witnessed tov. GORDO S.D. and NASKICHEV K.V. in the premise of the morgue of the central hospital of the office box No. 240 in daylight and sunny weather, a study of the corpse of a citizen DYATLOV IA was made. 23 years, to determine the cause of death and to answer the questions indicated in the resolution.
The circumstances of the case
On January 23, 1959, an amateur group of hikers consisting of 10 people went to a ski resort along the route Ivdel - Mount Oorten. From the site of the 2 nd Northern in the ski trip went 9 people. On February 1, 1959, the group began the ascent to Mount Oorten and in the evening broke the tent near the height of 1079. On the night of February 2, under unclear circumstances, all 9 people died."
Lyndasez
23-09-2017 22:09 (GMT)
Nigel, (" relevant to burns (possibly) and mechanical force (like a car accident)."
No, sorry, doesn't fit your narrative. If BL followed them down a hill where's the sliding pond ice crust from micowaves, where's the crater, where it burst!!..
And if you're going with the aerial rubbish, where's the snapped, scorched trees?!
Lyndasez
23-09-2017 22:02 (GMT)
Luddy had knitted helmet, 2 sweaters, 2 shirts, cotton pants, stockings a host of ragged socks, her stuff was all tore up and hemorrhages to chest caused by broken ribs... All had "bath skin" Don't see any burns to any of these victims!
Lyndasez
23-09-2017 21:54 (GMT)
*contained a folded newspaper...typo
Lyndasez
23-09-2017 21:50 (GMT)
Alex had no shoes, a jacket, pants, shirt, and defects to his cheek and jaw
Thibi had a jacket, pants, socks, felt boots, and a fracture at the base of his skull
SZ had fur hat, jacket, sweaters, black quilted Burki=boots, socks, scarf, overalls, coveralls which continued folded newspaper, ski pants with more bits of newspaper, compressed nose, compressed chest on one side. <--- he was prepared!
I'm not buying this triage set up by Igor, if he was so smart everyone would've been together, an they'd had fashioned torches, if this occurred in the dead of night, not buying this....by the light of the silvery ball lighting thing...
Loose-Cannon
23-09-2017 21:46 (GMT)
Bwahahaha. Nigel pissin people of as usual.
Dont worry KMM, he pulled the same "if you bothered to read my 857 posts, you would know Im right" BS with me also.
@Nigel. "you wouldn't look foolish" I sure dont think kmm looks foolish, and when you start talking like your superior to everyone... it kinda turns people away from the BL theory even more then already stated. I wish you would have taken my advice and keep it simple. Something like... 'BL may possible be the reason why they left the tent and didnt return. BL might have been why they climbed the tree. It also may have come down the slope and injured some and killed others bla bla'....
But when you start talking about all this crap which has zero basis in fact as if it were indeed fact, and then expect other folks to explain their theory/idea to fit 'your' unsubstantiated 'facts', and then insult them...... it irritates the shit outta people and only degrades the quality of discussion. Lord knows I can go full-retard, but I do not get there on my own (like john). I wish it were as easy to point to x,y, and z as definitive proof, but when you start trying to force others to believe in burnt tree tops, hot-spots, secret KGB BL photo mission, james Bond camera, specs of crap out of frame with a 300X zoom, three heads BS thats actually part a zoomed part of another know exposure entirely...... on and on and on.... with no real tangible resources to verify them... It gets old man. just sayin. Its a matter of so many 'ifs' having to galactically align, and if you hold your mouth just right you can see it working.
Even if the injuries I have been listing are 1% accurate. There is more to this story that you are simply not willing to even entertain. Thats fine, we have all heard you clearly state your position, but what we dont need is to be bullied or otherwise intimidated and ridiculed for thinking drastically different then you. Whos right? Probably nobody and/or it may be (as I stated before) a combination of unfortunate events.
Side note: You know Nigel, having a rav4 not be killed via an explosion of a fireball does not diminish your theory, it only makes it more basic and simple. You shouldn't have to construct a way in which said BL kills absolutely all of them. You should be willing to accept some or all died as a result of other means other then BL, while at the same time tow the line for the BL being the root cause of the situation i.e. forced away from tent. The 2Yuris being burned by the fire and not BL, same deal.
Like others, I am not married to any particlular theory, so I have no dog in the fight. I only wish you would accept other possibilities and how they may play a roll in how they died. If a BL scared them off the ridge, and then several other circumstances ultimately contribute to their passing.... whats wrong with that? Why does this 'have' to be ALL BL or nothing for you? Help me to understand this reasoning.
Nigel Evans
23-09-2017 21:36 (GMT)
@KMM - no i'm just claiming to have a theory that fits the facts.
KMM
23-09-2017 20:58 (GMT)
Nigel Evans 23-09-2017 20:49 (GMT) @KMM - "I guess he forgot to redistribute himself a pair of shoes to make his journey back to the tent ? 8-)" Maybe he had big feet? As said before he could have been suffering from hypothermia and getting confused.
"as said before (many times)" said by YOU ! That DOES NOT make it true !" Yes but if you followed things better i wouldn't have to repeat myself so much and you wouldn't look foolish criticising a theory you haven't bothered to follow...
"You ever hear of huddling to sharing body heat? Common practice when 2 or more are trying to stay warm. " I think Nicolai was dead? Could have been used as a windbreak...
BUt you are the one claiming to HAVE all THE ANSWERS
Nigel Evans
23-09-2017 20:49 (GMT)
@KMM - "I guess he forgot to redistribute himself a pair of shoes to make his journey back to the tent ? 8-)" Maybe he had big feet? As said before he could have been suffering from hypothermia and getting confused.
"as said before (many times)" said by YOU ! That DOES NOT make it true !" Yes but if you followed things better i wouldn't have to repeat myself so much and you wouldn't look foolish criticising a theory you haven't bothered to follow...
"You ever hear of huddling to sharing body heat? Common practice when 2 or more are trying to stay warm. " I think Nicolai was dead? Could have been used as a windbreak...
KMM
23-09-2017 20:15 (GMT)
@KMM - as said before (many times) the rav4 were nursed by Igor (having sent Zina back to the tent with Rustem) who redistributed clothing from the dead to the living
I guess he forgot to redistribute himself a pair of shoes to make his journey back to the tent ? 8-)
KMM
23-09-2017 20:08 (GMT)
Nigel Evans 23-09-2017 19:46 (GMT) @KMM - as said before (many times) the rav4 were nursed by Igor (having sent Zina back to the tent with Rustem) who redistributed clothing from the dead to the living
"as said before (many times)" said by YOU ! That DOES NOT make it true !
KMM
23-09-2017 20:03 (GMT)
Nigel : The 3 men where found lying next to each other like man and err wife. Doubtful they died like that.
You ever hear of huddling to sharing body heat? Common practice when 2 or more are trying to stay warm.
Nigel Evans
23-09-2017 19:51 (GMT)
@Lyndasez - it's relevant to burns (possibly) and mechanical force (like a car accident).
"Isn't sulphur smell associated with BL occurrences?" Certainly with some, i doubt for all.
"She slid in a kneeling position, arms rested on ledge? Seriously, she'd have gone over if the current were strong in same position as men an carried away! " All depends how she slid. Or if she was disturbed by the digging above. The 3 men where found lying next to each other like man and err wife. Doubtful they died like that.
Nigel Evans
23-09-2017 19:46 (GMT)
@KMM - as said before (many times) the rav4 were nursed by Igor (having sent Zina back to the tent with Rustem) who redistributed clothing from the dead to the living.
KMM
23-09-2017 19:39 (GMT)
Lyndasez 23-09-2017 19:35 (GMT) @KMM, Excellent observation, however, Nigel will say SZ lingered longer than others, took off Luddys hat an coat whilst she lie beside him in a kneeling position in the ravine...!?
I'm sure he will. Maybe he needs to look at SZ's injuries
Lyndasez
23-09-2017 19:35 (GMT)
@KMM, Excellent observation, however, Nigel will say SZ lingered longer than others, took off Luddys hat an coat whilst she lie beside him in a kneeling position in the ravine...!?
Lyndasez
23-09-2017 19:29 (GMT)
@Nigel, If you posted this story as an example, it should have something to liken or compare to your narrative, Roller BL I presume. I find nothing.
[MALVERN HILLS TRAGEDY "The rolling fireball rushed into the building through the doorway and struck the stone table, which was instantly shattered into fragments. It then passed straight across the room and exited through the window, tearing out the frame and surrounding stonework. In its passage, the rampaging fireball also smashed apart many of the large stones that comprised the walls."]
Isn't sulphur smell associated with BL occurrences?
("was the spring thaw (May) and the flow of water was strong and creating an airspace above the bodies (which can be seen in the photo). So it's very likely that the rav4 were pushed along the stream a little and Luda over the rock. She slid there imo."
She slid in a kneeling position, arms rested on ledge? Seriously, she'd have gone over if the current were strong in same position as men an carried away!
KMM
23-09-2017 19:25 (GMT)
If the rav4 were injured At THE SAME TIME by an explosion, why was SZ wearing Luda's jacket and cap ?
Loose-Cannon
23-09-2017 19:10 (GMT)
"had a wound at the back of head (autopsy says post mortem) and a deformed neck (not investigated!)".
That 'was' the investigation. Lol it was concluded right there on the autopsy table. Post mortem.
Another note. The den3 with injuries during life... The injuries reflect exactly how they were found on the rocks. I do not believe the snow pushed them much if any. Just looking at LD slumped over the rock does not seem to be a natural way to 'wash' over a rock, especially with both arms up and over. Her ribs were broken on both sides in the FRONT exactly how she was found. Nikolai and SZ were found... On rocks... In the creek... laying on their right side....Both having broken bones on the right side of the body.
If there was a collapse or shift of a snow bank... It likely threw them to the ground right where they stood and the impact against the rocks caused the injuries.
Or, thats where they were murdered and or tossed. Depending on the theory you subscribe to. Either way, I believe it was the bodies being thrown/pressed against the rocks that broke the bones, and you do NOT need a fireball to shift or collapse a wall of snow. Especially 'if' they just dug a large chunk of it out for a 'den'. OR the den was staged.... We know it was 'reconstructed?'.
Nigel Evans
23-09-2017 18:48 (GMT)
@Lyndasez - "Where did this BL impact, it just spontaneously combusted, where?" Don't know, two people got burns which could be the fire of course. The theory is the rav4 (and perhaps Rustem) got an aerial blast within the ravine or the BL exploded within the snowbank that held the den.
"Ummm, she was pressed against it when found, now she was either thrown with the rest, slipped down there on her knees or fell an tried to reach others. But, anyway you slice its there's a ledge/wall there, no doubt. She and 3 others are on 2 different levels." It was the spring thaw (May) and the flow of water was strong and creating an airspace above the bodies (which can be seen in the photo). So it's very likely that the rav4 were pushed along the stream a little and Luda over the rock. She slid there imo.
Lyndasez
23-09-2017 17:00 (GMT)
Nigel, I neglected to add... "An examination of the dead bodies, and the severe injuries to Joannah, revealed that all three had suffered burns to the face, neck, and breast, and that the hair on their heads was intact on one side while burnt off on the other. The clothes of each girl were also partly destroyed."
There's no injuries like the above on the RAV4. Where did this BL impact, it just spontaneously combusted, where?
Lyndasez
23-09-2017 16:44 (GMT)
"Luda got the whole package, may she rest in peace. I think the ledge is just some theorising, they can't know that." Ummm, she was pressed against it when found, now she was either thrown with the rest, slipped down there on her knees or fell an tried to reach others. But, anyway you slice its there's a ledge/wall there, no doubt. She and 3 others are on 2 different levels.
For some reason I doubt they obtained these injuries while skiing down hill face first with a closed fist like superman.
Nigel Evans
23-09-2017 16:27 (GMT)
@Lyndasez - "I've read that novella you posted. I see 2 killed sat by in amazement, they didn't jump out windows..seems they headed for shelter and those outside froze in fear. Quite different how the hikers reacted, no?" Something forced the hikers flee in their socks and crucially STAY AWAY from the tent for some time, so different behaviour. I just posted it because LC is filling up the pages with autopsy reports. Although rollers could be relevant to the undocumented rumour (afaik) that the investigation team experienced them later on.
"If your claim is BL is respnsible for the RAV4..how did it involve Alex, he died of exposure" Fair point, but he had a wound at the back of head (autopsy says post mortem) and a deformed neck (not investigated!) so just guessing that he was unconcious and died of cold.
"and Luddy it's explained, she fell or ran into a ledge. " Based on the forensic examination of the corpse of Ms. L.A. Dubinina I think that the death of Ms. Dubinina was caused by massive haemorrhage into the right ventricle, multiple bilateral rib fractures, and internal bleeding into the thoracic cavity.
Oss, Svetlana. Don't Go There: Post Mortem (p. 215). LiberWriter.com. Kindle Edition.
Luda got the whole package, may she rest in peace. I think the ledge is just some theorising, they can't know that.
Lyndasez
23-09-2017 16:11 (GMT)
@LC, " The former students were there to get their level 3.... Just like SZ. They all were"
Thank you, Just saw they weren't paid for that time an wondered. Trying to figure why Dyatlov didn't file the last of his paperwork=the route map, seems they had to put it together from memory.
Nigel Evans
23-09-2017 16:10 (GMT)
@Lyndasez - I've a memory of reading that a student wasn't given permission to travel in order to fit Semyon in. Think the others were recent graduates of the Uni and still socially connected.
@Loose-Cannon - "There is never going to be anything conclusive in this case... Only probable." Agreed, but it's fun to chew over and make the case for your favourite theory, having someone to contest it with sharpens the thinking and improves the result. Since we've been arguing i've learnt a lot about the DPI and assumed facts.
"FYI... Its completely unnatural to fall with a closed fist, just like it is to lay down on a hill with your feet towards the summit." When i broke my leg skiing i was going fast enough to be flying through the air and on landing found myself skiing downhill with a broken tibia. This gives one a problem, how to stop travelling downhill on one good leg.. So i took the biggest swallow dive ever (not easy on 1.95m skis off one leg on these - https://images.evo.com/imgp/700/1446/157991/k2-seth-vicious-skis-2006.jpg .) and came to a stop after a long slide facing downhill with my arms protecting my head and clenched fists (adding a broken fibula to the list). If i had expired at that point that's how they would have found me. True i didn't and the pain of two broken ends of my tibia scraping past each other as the muscle contracted got me turned round real quick to use gravity to counter it but you get the idea. It all depends on what happens and how gravity reduces the pain
Rustem had a 1litre of internal bleeding same as Semyon. So quite plausible imo that he was further away from the ravine explosion but the shockwave tore his rib muscle et al and he collapsed and died with the same degree of internal bleeding as Semyon. So it fits he was trying to get back to the tent with Zina. The clenched fist indicating pain.
"Your lies are old but you fell them well. " I'm no lies Nige...
Lyndasez
23-09-2017 16:02 (GMT)
@Nigel, I've read that novella you posted. I see 2 killed sat by in amazement, they didn't jump out windows..seems they headed for shelter and those outside froze in fear. Quite different how the hikers reacted, no?
Loose-Cannon
23-09-2017 16:01 (GMT)
The state University is where you go to get your level certification. The former students were there to get their level 3.... Just like SZ. They all were
Lyndasez
23-09-2017 15:43 (GMT)
@Nigel, If your claim is BL is respnsible for the RAV4..how did it involve Alex, he died of exposure and Luddy it's explained, she fell or ran into a ledge. "Death is forcible." <---- what's that mean, tried to look it up couldn't find. :c{
Lyndasez
23-09-2017 15:27 (GMT)
It's mildly explained why SZ was on the trip. He needed some certificate to qualify as a hiker guide. But I didn't see why the other 3 non-students went? I miss something?
Loose-Cannon
23-09-2017 13:40 (GMT)
There is never going to be anything conclusive in this case... Only probable.
FYI... Its completely unnatural to fall with a closed fist, just like it is to lay down on a hill with your feet towards the summit.
Your lies are old but you fell them well.
Nigel Evans
23-09-2017 12:44 (GMT)
@LC - oh this fun
"Ah... ambiguous." That's the DPI for you. What's not ambiguous is that they built a fire which is somewhat at odds with the murder most foul theories. Don't see that getting mentioned much in this War and Peace of injury stuff.
"This is a jamming injury to the hand... No doubt about it." What like when you slip badly and stick your hand in a rock?
"Its a whole host of injuries that are 100% consistent with hand/hand combat. " Its a whole host of injuries that are 100% ambiguous with hand/hand combat. Nearly all the right words and spelling is correct...
"you should remember you have already had to eat crow numerous times in the past few weeks." Yes and i'm eating crow becuase I'M finding errors in stated facts which is more than you have done. But nothing to change the overall BL theory, just details.
"and I think you keep forgetting they were found NEXT TO A FIRE." Yes that's why i used the word ambiguous...
"Three more to go!" and nothing conclusive so far
Loose-Cannon
23-09-2017 12:21 (GMT)
Ah... ambiguous. Kinda like the entire BL BS.
"the second metacarpal bone is an abrasion 2 x 1.5 cm in size, brownish-colored with hemorrhages in the underlying soft tissues". NOTE: Right index finger abrasion along with some serious damage to the underlying tissue. This is... In fact what happens when you punch something, or someone... Along with swelling of the back of the hand. This is a jamming injury to the hand... No doubt about it.
Its not just one busted lip Nigel. Its a whole host of injuries that are 100% consistent with hand/hand combat. Instead of ignoring the overwhelming evidence of fighting injuries, you should remember you have already had to eat crow numerous times in the past few weeks.
They nearly ALL have these injuries consistent with fighting across the hands and face/head. Amazing how selective BL would be when nobody even knows what BL consists of. :/ I would also presume the medical examiners would know what an electrical burn looks like vs a fire burn, and I think you keep forgetting they were found NEXT TO A FIRE.
Three more to go!
@KMM. "It was forming the impression that, when the hikers, at their feet, descended down the mountain, SOMEBODY intentionally ended some of them"
Very interesting quote from Nigels role model.... Perhaps he should either listen, or realize he daddy was the entire season we are talking about it in the first place. Ivanov couldn't solve how he got up in the morning. We all know it including Nigel... He's just in a perpetual state of denial.
Nigel Evans
23-09-2017 11:18 (GMT)
@LC - "Address the injuries of Yuri-D"
As said many times now they're all ambiguous, burnt hair could be from the fire, could be from BL. The pulmonary edema could be from falling or electrocution from BL... The split lip is a combat wound but falling out of a tree could do it. There's not one individual where it is clear they they got beaten up, all ambiguous which lends the evidence to a non combat scenario imo and in Ivanov's.
Also imo it's a stretch that these tough resilient kids should both end up dead with burns and edema from falling out of a tree. Accidents do happen, but i'm finding this hard to swallow. But there was human skin/flesh on the tree and YuriK lived long enough afterwards to bite the back of his hand dealing with the pain. But i'd put my money on something other than a human accident, maybe even superhuman...
N.B. the gore could be from his brain expanding, bursting into the sinus area and running out of his nose. This is relevant to Rustems fracture if his sinuses didn't burst then the skull might crack. http://www.rjlm.ro/system/revista/15/199-202.pdf .
btw it's spelt "specific", here endeth the lesson
Loose-Cannon
23-09-2017 09:52 (GMT)
Enough of the BL story ti.e flap flap... Address the injuries of Yuri-D
"On the left leg are two pairs of knitted light brown socks, with rips in the area of ??the rear of the foot and ankle joint; woolen socks are white, with a heel trimmed, in the area of ??the forefoot on the toe, there is a burnt area of ??2 х 5 cm in dark brown color". NOTE: Burnt toe area of left sock. Unknown if the toe itself is burned.
"On the right leg, the remnants of a cotton sock with an elastic band are the same color as the one on the left. Wool white socks. On the inner surface of the panties there is a marking label with the inscription STS1313". NOTE: Thats an odd brand name for a pair of undies. :/ But I digress! .
"In the right temporo-parietal and occipital region there is a burning area of ??the ends of the hair, the hair is stained with remains of moss and needles of coniferous trees". NOTE: Ends of the hair on the right side above and behind the ear are burned.
"In the region of the back of the nose, the tip of the nose and the upper lip, there are traces of discharge of gore". NOTE: Not very spicific as to what the 'gore' actually is, but I would imagine blood is involved. Blood/snot... You get the idea.
"Upper lip swelling, in the red portion of the upper lip hemorrhage dark red measuring 1.5 x 2 cm". NOTE: Swollen upper lip thats busted... Hemorrhaging... Blood.
"In the area of ??the right cheek, soft tissues are covered with a layer of frothy gray liquid, from the mouth of the mouth there are traces of discharge of liquid of gray color". NOTE: Fairly strange.... Literally foaming out of the mouth when died. Pretty sure this is where the pulmonary edema comes from. "Pulmonary edema is a condition caused by excess fluid in the lungs. This fluid collects in the numerous air sacs in the lungs, making it difficult to breathe. In most cases, heart problems cause pulmonary edema." Fairly important information I would say.
"on the inner surface of the right shoulder in the middle third are two abrasions measuring 2 x 1.5 cm. brown color of parchment density of irregular shape, without hemorrhages in the underlying tissues. In the area of ??these abrasions two cuts of linear are made". NOTE: Minor cuts and Abrasions outer collar bone/arm region likely caused by carrying a heavy pack. Had this myself in the usmc plenty of times. Yuri was a fairly big dude and likely carried the tent, which would be the heaviest load. You can see him carrying it in this pic... For the last time. http://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Krivonischenko-camera-film1-31.jpg .
"On the front surface of the right shoulder, small bruises of reddish color in the form of strips measuring 4 x 1 cm, 2.5 x 1.5 cm and 5 x 0.5 cm and minor abrasions in the lower third of the right forearm". NOTE: Right shoulder same as above, and and minor abrasions of the forearm.
"In the area of ??the rear of the right hand, soft tissue swelling and minor abrasions. At the rear of the hand". NOTE: Back of the right hand is swollen with abrasions.
"the second metacarpal bone is an abrasion 2 x 1.5 cm in size, brownish-colored with hemorrhages in the underlying soft tissues". NOTE: Right index finger abrasion along with some serious damage to the underlying tissue. This is... In fact what happens when you punch something, or someone... Along with swelling of the back of the hand. This is a jamming injury to the hand... No doubt about it.
"On the lateral surfaces of the left elbow joint, small abrasions of a burgundy color of parchment density and abrasions of the same color 2 x 3 cm in size with traces of slip in the form of bands parallel to each other". NOTE: Abrasion of the elbow.. could be from anything.
"On the inner surface of the left forearm on the border of the middle third and the lower third, the cutaneous wound of an irregular oval shape measuring 0.6 x 0.5 cm, its edges slightly pinched and covered with gore, under the wound marks of gore. A cut was made in the region of this wound, where a hemorrhage in the underlying soft tissues was detected". NOTE: cutaneous..... 'of the skin'. Deep nasty pusy wound with underlying bleeding with a raised outer rim... Like a volcano crater rim.
"Soft tissue in the area of ??the rear of the left hand is slightly swollen reddish-colored. End phalanx of fingers of hands dark-blue color". NOTE: Swollen back of left hand, and the ending segments of the fingers have early signs of frostbite. Bet ya 100 rubles he is right handed.
"Soft tissues in the area of ??the terminal phalanges of the toes of the foot are dark-colored". NOTE: Ends of all toes showing signs of frostbite.
"The aperture of the anus and the urethra are clean". NOTE: Yeah... Too much information!!!
Ok... Yuri-D wasn't in 'that' bad of shape. He had a few easily explainable bumps and scrapes, but he obviously punched the living shit out of 'something' or 'someone', and received a nice busted lip.
The real interesting ones are yet to come
Nigel Evans
23-09-2017 08:05 (GMT)
@KMM A STRANGE TRAGEDY ON THE MALVERN HILLS
If the GLO ‘Fireball’ might be compared to an aerial bomb, artillery shell, or depth-charge, and the ‘Apparition’ to a floating mine, then the ‘Roller’ is perhaps best described as the ‘battle tank’ of these phenomenal invaders. The following case, surely one of the weirdest and most chilling events of a phenomenal nature ever recorded, certainly bears out the latter analogy.
On a fine day at the height of the English summer, the three daughters and the eldest son of Joseph Hill, a wealthy resident of Lindridge, an attractive village in the valley of the River Teme, Worcestershire, set out for a walk over the nearby Malvern Hills. They were accompanied by several young ladies, staying as guests of the family, and a manservant bearing their provisions in a small handcart. Around 15:00, the party reached the Worcestershire Beacon, at 425 metres above sea level the highest point in the range, and upon which there was a solitary building that had been erected on the orders of a Lady Harcourt. The robust structure, designed as a storm shelter and intended for the use of people walking on the hills, was built of stone and covered with a roof of iron plates. It consisted of a single room with a stone table in the centre and seats on each side; it had two apertures: a doorway and a window sited opposite the door. Shortly after their arrival the sky took on an ominous appearance, and soon a great and furious electric storm advanced upon the hill. Brilliant discharges of lightning flashed from the skies almost incessantly, producing a succession of thunderclaps, the violence of which was so great as to make the ground itself shudder. Quite understandably the young people became fearful of being in the open at the mercy of the elements, and the entire party, with the exception of the servant, abandoned their picnic and fled into the shelter. No doubt feeling reasonably secure once they were within its sturdy walls, Eliza and Joannah Hill, and a friend, Ellen Woodyatt of Hereford, seated themselves at the table, while the rest stood and waited for the storm to pass. What none could have been aware of was the approach of a menacing phenomenon with all the energetic potential of the deadliest lightning bolt ever hurled into the earth, and yet so lethally different from an ordinary electrical discharge that it rendered those within as vulnerable as the poor servant left outside to face the tempest. After a while, Margaret Hill, aged about 15, who had been extremely upset by the storm, went to the door hoping to see some sign that the disturbance was moving away. Deliverance, however, was certainly not at hand instead she saw the remorseless approach of a thing unearthly and absolutely terrifying: a huge ball of ‘electric fire’ was rolling at high velocity along the surface of the hill, and directly towards the entrance of the party’s retreat! So rapid was the advance of this dreadful object that no sooner had the poor girl recovered from her initial shock, and before she could alert those within, it was upon her and she was hurled violently to the ground. Quite remarkably, though her shoes, and part of her dress, were burned, Margaret survived. Her brother, who had been standing nearby, was injured in much the same manner. Some other members of the party, however, were tragically and quite horribly less fortunate. The rolling fireball rushed into the building through the doorway and struck the stone table, which was instantly shattered into fragments. It then passed straight across the room and exited through the window, tearing out the frame and surrounding stonework. In its passage, the rampaging fireball also smashed apart many of the large stones that comprised the walls. Of the three young women seated around the table, two, Eliza and Ellen, were killed on the spot, and Joannah was left apparently more dead than alive. The horror of the scene left the manservant, who alone had suffered no physical injury, almost deranged. When he looked into the shelter, it must have seemed like a massacre, for all the young persons had been affected; most had been struck down and lay dead or injured on the ground. He began to scream with hysteria, his pitiful cries alerting a labourer working nearby. This man rendered whatever assistance he could before seeking help. Eventually a physician reached the scene, examined the badly injured Joannah and, having discovered that vital signs were still present, proceeded to open a vein and relieve the victim of a quantity of blood - still a standard procedure in 1826. She was then taken to Great Malvern and lodged in the Unicorn Inn where she remained, possibly conscious but certainly unable to speak. Doctors were pessimistic as to her chances of recovery (optimism being somewhat unfashionable in the medical circles of those days). An examination of the dead bodies, and the severe injuries to Joannah, revealed that all three had suffered burns to the face, neck, and breast, and that the hair on their heads was intact on one side while burnt off on the other. The clothes of each girl were also partly destroyed. A coroner’s inquest on the deceased would have been held within a few days, but, to the best of my knowledge, no further details were printed in subsequent issues of the two London newspapers* from which I have compiled this account. According to a paper in the Transactions of the Worcestershire Archaeological Society for 1957, an entry in the diary of Charles Dunne (1783-1850), rector of the manor of Earl’s Croome, refers to three women having died in the tragedy, while a footnote states that the victims were a party of seven, and that all three of the Hill girls were killed along with Miss Woodyat. The true number of fatal victims could be traced through burial records, and it is probable that at least one of the victims is interred in the churchyard at Lindridge where some form of memorial should be extant. The fate of poor Joanna is no doubt described in an article, or announcement in a local newspaper which should eventually be located. The nature of this terrible rolling fireball, if examined in terms of conventional atmospheric physics is totally inexplicable: An ‘ordinary’ discharge of lightning would have immediately gone to earth in or close to its point of contact in a fraction of a second, but this fearsome peripatetic manifestation was sustained, coherent in form, and evidently under control. The destruction of the stone table was an example of the awesome power of the GLO Roller, while its effects on the three victims seated around the table, demonstrates the complex nature of what was clearly a violent, yet curiously selective outpouring of energy. The dramatic fracturing of this rather formidable item of furniture would have actually been caused by heat, generated when electrical energy from the fireball penetrated this poor conductor and obstacle to its progress. Energetic discharges, projected out like tentacles, had much the same effect on the wall stones they contacted, and also removed the window and its surround in a violent but mechanical fashion. Contact with human tissue and clothing evidently brought about an almost instantaneous change of amperage and frequency in these electric and electromagnetic projections, a factor that prevented the victims’ bodies from superheating and exploding into fragments. Whatever the nature of the mechanism housed within the envelope of the GLO, it clearly operated at a phenomenal speed and seems to have endowed the object with a crude sense of purpose. * The Times, 07.07.1826, p3f; The Age v2, p482, 09.07.1826
Lev Ivanov, who conducted the subsequent investigation and closed the case, stated, "In May, together with EP Maslennikov, we inspected the vicinity of the scene of the incident (in the area of ??the ravine and cedar), noting that some of the new spruce at the edge of the forest have burn marks, but such traces did not have a concentric shape or any other shape system, nor did they have an epicenter. This confirms that some kind of heat ray or strong energy, but completely unknown (at least for us), has been directed, acting selectively: the snow has not been melted, the trees have not been damaged. It was forming the impression that, when the hikers, at their feet, descended down the mountain, somebody intentionally ended some of them
re my post that perm-36 us outside "Moscow" -- my bad -- it is near the old city of "Molotov" -- much closer to the hikers.
Loose-Cannon
23-09-2017 03:53 (GMT)
#1 Am I to believe the Russian gov is going to prosecute themselves? #2 Its says right there in the quote 'political AND CRIMINAL' #3 Am I to believe everything Russia says or does? #4 Your stupid list shows when administrators began their term. #5Your entire rant is irrelevant because an escaped prisoner in 1950 can still be evading the authorities in 1959. If they were to stop building cars today, would that mean all existing cars prior are non existent? God have mercy this is stupid!
John Wolfe
23-09-2017 03:42 (GMT)
re: Lyndasez 09-22-2017 23:55 (GMT)
my typo you cited as if I thought Khrushchev closed the gulags BEFORE HE WAS BORN -- not worth anything more than an "oops" -- I have bad eyesighrt and didn't see the typo. -- should read 1956, and not 1856.
John Wolfe
23-09-2017 03:34 (GMT)
re: Loose-Cannon 09-22-2017 23:55 (GMT) --- The Gulag institution was closed by the MVD order No 020 of January 25, 1960 but forced labor colonies for political and criminal prisoners continued to exist. Political prisoners continued to be kept in one of the most famous camps Perm-36 until 1987 when it was closed."
-- um ... you could claim political prisoners are everywhere, even in the USA.
--- also --- Perm-36 is outside Moscow and is over 1,000 miles from where the hikers were.
--- from the wiki site you posted --- note the last date (April 4, 1956) for administration of the gulags --- anything after that date was illegal and subject to immediate shut-down.
Gulag administrators
Name
Years[78][79][80]
Feodor (Teodors) Ivanovich Eihmans April 25, 1930 – June 16, 1930 Lazar Iosifovich Kogan June 16, 1930 – June 9, 1932 Matvei Davidovich Berman June 9, 1932 – August 16, 1937 Israel Israelevich Pliner August 16, 1937 – November 16, 1938 Gleb Vasilievich Filaretov November 16, 1938 – February 18, 1939 Vasili Vasilievich Chernyshev February 18, 1939 – February 26, 1941 Victor Grigorievich Nasedkin February 26, 1941 – September 2, 1947 Georgiy Prokopievich Dobrynin September 2, 1947 – January 31, 1951 Ivan Ilyich Dolgich January 31, 1951 – October 5, 1954 Sergei Yegorovich Yegorov October 5, 1954 – April 4, 1956
Loose-Cannon
23-09-2017 01:36 (GMT)
Oops... He had a big ole busted lip, so someone hat a good clean shot on him at some point. (Thumbs up)
Loose-Cannon
23-09-2017 01:30 (GMT)
Ok DP fans... I'm calling this series of autopsy reviews.. "THINGS THE BL GESTAPO DOES NOT WANT YOU TO KNOW".
"On the left leg are two pairs of knitted light brown socks, with rips in the area of ??the rear of the foot and ankle joint; woolen socks are white, with a heel trimmed, in the area of ??the forefoot on the toe, there is a burnt area of ??2 х 5 cm in dark brown color". NOTE: Burnt toe area of left sock. Unknown if the toe itself is burned.
"On the right leg, the remnants of a cotton sock with an elastic band are the same color as the one on the left. Wool white socks. On the inner surface of the panties there is a marking label with the inscription STS1313". NOTE: Thats an odd brand name for a pair of undies. :/ But I digress! .
"In the right temporo-parietal and occipital region there is a burning area of ??the ends of the hair, the hair is stained with remains of moss and needles of coniferous trees". NOTE: Ends of the hair on the right side above and behind the ear are burned.
"In the region of the back of the nose, the tip of the nose and the upper lip, there are traces of discharge of gore". NOTE: Not very spicific as to what the 'gore' actually is, but I would imagine blood is involved. Blood/snot... You get the idea.
"Upper lip swelling, in the red portion of the upper lip hemorrhage dark red measuring 1.5 x 2 cm". NOTE: Swollen upper lip thats busted... Hemorrhaging... Blood.
"In the area of ??the right cheek, soft tissues are covered with a layer of frothy gray liquid, from the mouth of the mouth there are traces of discharge of liquid of gray color". NOTE: Fairly strange.... Literally foaming out of the mouth when died. Pretty sure this is where the pulmonary edema comes from. "Pulmonary edema is a condition caused by excess fluid in the lungs. This fluid collects in the numerous air sacs in the lungs, making it difficult to breathe. In most cases, heart problems cause pulmonary edema." Fairly important information I would say.
"on the inner surface of the right shoulder in the middle third are two abrasions measuring 2 x 1.5 cm. brown color of parchment density of irregular shape, without hemorrhages in the underlying tissues. In the area of ??these abrasions two cuts of linear are made". NOTE: Minor cuts and Abrasions outer collar bone/arm region likely caused by carrying a heavy pack. Had this myself in the usmc plenty of times. Yuri was a fairly big dude and likely carried the tent, which would be the heaviest load. You can see him carrying it in this pic... For the last time. http://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Krivonischenko-camera-film1-31.jpg .
"On the front surface of the right shoulder, small bruises of reddish color in the form of strips measuring 4 x 1 cm, 2.5 x 1.5 cm and 5 x 0.5 cm and minor abrasions in the lower third of the right forearm". NOTE: Right shoulder same as above, and and minor abrasions of the forearm.
"In the area of ??the rear of the right hand, soft tissue swelling and minor abrasions. At the rear of the hand". NOTE: Back of the right hand is swollen with abrasions.
"the second metacarpal bone is an abrasion 2 x 1.5 cm in size, brownish-colored with hemorrhages in the underlying soft tissues". NOTE: Right index finger abrasion along with some serious damage to the underlying tissue. This is... In fact what happens when you punch something, or someone... Along with swelling of the back of the hand. This is a jamming injury to the hand... No doubt about it.
"On the lateral surfaces of the left elbow joint, small abrasions of a burgundy color of parchment density and abrasions of the same color 2 x 3 cm in size with traces of slip in the form of bands parallel to each other". NOTE: Abrasion of the elbow.. could be from anything.
"On the inner surface of the left forearm on the border of the middle third and the lower third, the cutaneous wound of an irregular oval shape measuring 0.6 x 0.5 cm, its edges slightly pinched and covered with gore, under the wound marks of gore. A cut was made in the region of this wound, where a hemorrhage in the underlying soft tissues was detected". NOTE: cutaneous..... 'of the skin'. Deep nasty pusy wound with underlying bleeding with a raised outer rim... Like a volcano crater rim.
"Soft tissue in the area of ??the rear of the left hand is slightly swollen reddish-colored. End phalanx of fingers of hands dark-blue color". NOTE: Swollen back of left hand, and the ending segments of the fingers have early signs of frostbite. Bet ya 100 rubles he is right handed.
"Soft tissues in the area of ??the terminal phalanges of the toes of the foot are dark-colored". NOTE: Ends of all toes showing signs of frostbite.
"The aperture of the anus and the urethra are clean". NOTE: Yeah... Too much information!!!
Ok... Yuri-D wasn't in 'that' bad of shape. He had a few easily explainable bumps and scrapes, but he obviously punched the living shit out of 'something' or 'someone'. No real issues of any kind to the face etc, so I imagine? he was a giver and not a taker.
The real interesting ones are yet to come.
Lyndasez
22-09-2017 23:55 (GMT)
@Nigel, Well, if the force is "superhuman," it ain't BL! ;cP
To give you your due. After having read some of the witness accounts on hibinaud, I can now see the connection to your BL obsession... One witness said they saw a circular cloud that grew in size so much so, he thought planets were colliding. Or could one of these .... http://news.sky.com/story/meteor-team-of-20000-sent-to-ural-mountains-10454500
@John Wolfe, Being a fan of reality myself an FYI, Khrushchev was born in 1894.
Loose-Cannon
22-09-2017 23:55 (GMT)
Is this what happens when a BL melts your brain and you later find it in your adult diaper?
"The Gulag institution was closed by the MVD order No 020 of January 25, 1960 but forced labor colonies for political and criminal prisoners continued to exist. Political prisoners continued to be kept in one of the most famous camps Perm-36 until 1987 when it was closed."
John Wolfe
22-09-2017 23:12 (GMT)
re: John Wolfe 09-22-2017 22:57 (GMT) --- sorry to all who were fans of the escaped Gulag prisoners "theory" -- my omission of them was because (as any fan of reality should know) Stalin died in 1953 and Nikita Sergeyevich Khrushchev closed all the Gulags down by 1856 -- so .... get a grip ! ..... there's no way freed political prisoners killed nine hikers, who were highly valuable students of the sciences from UPI, just for the heck of it -- let alone the idea of ... what were they doing there in the first place ?
John Wolfe
22-09-2017 22:57 (GMT)
re: John Wolfe 09-22-2017 21:41 (GMT)
I forgot to add to the comment (see below this) ..... according to the trolls ...... all this was covered up by the Soviet Government because they found out it was carried out by their own KGB in an effort to hide secret weapons testing which leaves no evidence (other than strange injuries) and was designed to confuse the American CIA agent who just happened to be in the area to pick up a sample of "radioactive" material from a defector --- thus, this assassination of the nine counter-revolutionary hikers was assigned to the Mansi (modern, and quite friendly, Siberian hunter-gatherers / tribesmen / they're also good drinkers) who hired Yeti (abomdidibaomdidibomadbale snow-men) who don't actually exist but existed long enough to hand it off to space aliens -- WHO USED BALL LIGHTNING TO ATTACK THE HIKERS ! (and thus thoroughly confuse this writer) -- the very same space aliens, who, I might add, are sick to death of internet trolls. (I know, I know, I know ....... the internet wasn't conceived until the mid-1960's, and utilizing software developed in the 1970's, was privately implemented in the late 1980's and made public in the early 1990's ....... but the space aliens have a time machine !)
Hey look! I've got to go off to my star-system for a while -- I'll write some more a few days ago ... when I have some more .......time
John Wolfe
22-09-2017 21:41 (GMT)
re: Loose-Cannon 09-21-2017 18:17 (GMT) comment to Nigel and friends -- " Don't be scared. Hey, while I'm at it... You ever think of getting together with your fellow BL theorist (particularly 8 others) and take a few weeks to explore the DP area in winter? I think you should... The BL gods are calling you."
-- this is actually a good idea -- I will be suggesting this to the Ural State Technical University this winter -- and yes, it is a frightening idea -- ball lightning, that is -- though some trolls prefer to fear invisible attackers who don't leave footprints anywhere in the area, who have no motivation to torture and kill nine hikers, who wield superhuman strength and produce air-burst like injuries designed to fool .......... fools.
Nigel Evans
22-09-2017 21:12 (GMT)
@LC - the injuries are consistent with several situations some involving fighting, some do not. The problem is that the injuries are ambiguous. This argues strongly imo that they're not from fighting. If fighting had occured surely there would be injuries that were clearly human inflicted? Maybe this was Ivanov's view based on his experience as a policeman...
Loose-Cannon
22-09-2017 20:43 (GMT)
Im stating, that I believe most of the victims exhibit injuries consistent with fighting. This evidence is not easily explained as to who, and why etc. Im stating it simply exists, and cannot be overlooked regardless as to the theory one subscribes to. I was completely neutral in my post about on Yuri. I even gave the benefit of doubt he was climbing the cedar and several of his injuries could very well be related to the act of climbing said cedar, frostbite, and burns.
5 nights of autopsy reports.... Post 2 coming up in just a few hrs.
Nigel Evans
22-09-2017 18:27 (GMT)
@LC - so you are saying that they were beaten badly before being left to die of cold yes?
Sandy
22-09-2017 18:24 (GMT)
Wow - I was going to print the autopsies off myself & came here to do it & see I was beat to it.
Loose-Cannon
22-09-2017 17:58 (GMT)
No Nigel... Apparently YOU need to go read the post. AT NO POINT IN TIME DID I STATE THEIR INJURIES KILLED THEM. HERE.... READ..
YURI DOROSHENKO
2. ear, nose and lips are covered with blood <<<<<<< BEAT TO SHIT 3. swollen upper lip with dark red hemorrhage <<<<<<<<< BEAT TO SHIT 4. right cheek soft tissue covered with gray foam; gray liquid coming form his open mouth. Most apparent cause is pulmonary edema. (Pulmonary Edema.... Fluid in lungs... Common when starved of oxygen) <<<<<<< CHOKED THE FRICK OUT 7. right armpit has a bruise 2x1.5 cm <<<<<<<< FIGHTING 8. brown-red bruises with size 4x1 cm, 2.5x1.5 cm, 5x5 cm in the upper third of right forearm <<<<<<< FIGHTING 9. swelling and small abrasions in the rear of the right hand soft tissue <<<<<<< KICKING SOMEONES ASS 10. bruise with bleeding into the underlying soft tissue on the back of the right hand corresponding to the second metacarpal bone <<<< KICKING SOMEONES ASS 14. on the inner surface of the left forearm there is a surface skin wound covered with dried blood <<<<<<<<< BLOCKING/FIGHTING 15. similar bruises in pale red color on the shins of both legs <<<<<<< FIGHTING GROUND WRESTLE
YURI KRIVONISCHENKO
1. bruises on the forehead 0.3x1.8 cm <<<<<<< BEAT TO SHIT 2. diffuse bleeding in the right temporal and occipital region due to damage to temporalis muscle <<<<<<< BEAT TO SHIT 3. bruise around left temporal bone <<<<<<<< BEAT TO SHIT 7. back of the right hand is swollen, fingers are brownish-purple <<<<<<< KICKING THAT ASS 14. dark red abrasions on left wrist, back of the left hand is swollen <<<<<<<<< KICKING THAT ASS 16.three linear skin lesions with straight edges, sharp corners and depth up to 0.3 cm on the inner side of the upper third of the left thigh <<< FIGHTING, POSSIBLE TREE CLIMBING 17. three cutaneous wounds with sharp corners on the inner side of the upper third of the left hip <<<<<< BEAT TO SHIT 18. dark brown abrasion on the front of the right femur and tibia <<<<< FIGHTING OR BIG FALL 19. dark brown-red abrasions on the front-inner left thigh <<<<<<< FIGHTING OR BIG FALL
IGOR DYATLOV
1. minor abrasions on the forehead <<<<<< FIGHTING BEAT UP 2. minor abrasions on the upper eyelids <<<<<<< FIGHTING BEAT UP 3. brown-red abrasions above the left eyebrow <<<<<<<< FIGHTING BEAT UP 4. minor abrasions on the left cheek <<<<<<<< FIGHTING BEAT UP 5. brown-red abrasions on both cheeks <<<<<<<< FIGHTING BEAT UP 6. dried blood on lips <<<<<<<<< BEAT TO SHIT 8. bruised knees without bleeding into the UNDERLYING tissues <<<<<< FIGHTING WRESTLING 9. both ankles had brownish red abrasions, size 1x0.5 cm and 3x2.5 cm with hemorrhage into the 10. underlying tissue <<<<<< FIGHTING POSSIBLE DRAGGING 10. single incision 4x2 cm in the lower third of the right tibia <<<<<< FIGHTING CUT WOUND 11. many small scratches of dark red color on the lower third of the right forearm and palm surface <<<<<<< FIGHTING 13. metacarpophalangeal joints on the right hand had brown red bruises. This is common injury in hand to hand fights. To get a better idea of the injuries just make a fist. This is the part of the hand which you use to hit someone. <<<<<< FIGHTING!!!!!! 14. left hand is brown-purple color with brownish-red bruises <<<< FIGHTING 15. superficial wounds on the 2nd and 5th finger on the left hand <<<<<<< FIGHTING 16. skin wound in the palmar surface of the 2nd 5th finger of left hand <<<<<<< FIGHTING
ZINAIDA KOLMOGOROVA
1. dark red abrasion on the right frontal eminence <<<<< BEAT TO SHIT 2. pale gray area 3x2 cm above the right eyebrow <<<<< STRANGE 3. dark red abrasion on the upper eyelids <<<<<<< BEAT TO SHIT 4. brown red graze on the bridge and tip of the nose <<<<<<<< BEAT TO SHIT 5. numerous abrasions on the left cheekbone <<<<<<< BEAT TO SHIT 6. bruised skin on the right side of the face <<<<<<< BEAT TO SHIT 7. brown-red abrasion on the back of both hands in the area of metacarpal phalangeal and inter-phalangeal joints <<<<<< KICKING THAT ASS 8. wound with jagged edges and missing skin on the back of the right hand at the base of the third finger <<<<<<< KICKING THAT ASS 10. a long BRIGHT red bruise 29x6 cm in the lumbar region on the right side of the torso. The bruise looks like left from a baton <<<<<<< BEAT TO SHIT..... BATON, BRIGHT RED, FRESH, NOT DAYS OLD, BIG FUGGIN STICK WACK.
RUSTEM SLOBODIN
1. hemorrhages in the temporalis muscles <<<<<< BEAT TO SHIT 2. minor brownish red abrasions on the forehead <<<<<< FIGHTING 3. two scratches are 1.5 cm long at the distance of 0.3 cm between them 4. brownish red bruise on the upper eyelid of the right eye with hemorrhage into the UNDERLYING tissues <<<< BEAT TO SHIT 5. traces of blood discharge from the nose <<<<< BEAT TO SHIT 6. SWELLING and a lot of small abrasions on both sides of the face <<<<<< GOOD GOD BEAT TO SHIT 7. bruises in the metacarpophalangeal joints on both hands. Similar bruises are common in hand to hand combat <<<< KICKING THAT ASS 8. brown cherry bruises on the medial aspect of the left arm and left palm <<<<<<< FIGHTING 9. SWOLEN lips. <<<<<<< BEAT TO SHIT 10. bruises on the left tibia in dimensions at 2.5x1.5 cm (not shown on diagram) <<<<< LITERALLY KICKING.... THAT ASS 11. epidermis is torn from the right forearm (not shown on diagram) <<<<< FIGHTING, KICKING ASS 12. fracture of the frontal bone 6x0.1 cm located 1.5 cm from the sagittal suture (showing on separate skull trauma diagram without numbers) BEAT TO SHIT, BLOW TO HEAD, FIGHT OVER, CAN BE DONE WITH FIST, ROCK, LOG, BOOT, YOU PICK
AND THATS JUST THE 5 NOT ROTTED BEYOND RECOGNITION.
Nigel Evans
22-09-2017 17:48 (GMT)
@LC - "nor have I suggested their other injuries directly resulted in their deaths." LOL - Well go and reread your post - 03-09-2017 23:14 (GMT)
@Lyndasez - you've confused me again.
Lyndasez
22-09-2017 13:44 (GMT)
Nigel said: "SuperHUMAN force" --- I win!!! :c)
Lyndasez
22-09-2017 13:40 (GMT)
LC & Nigel, The info about the fall is from 2 sites, you determine.
". Doroshenko was lying on his stomach. Beneath it found a broken branch of a tree from falling into several pieces." -hibinaud
"Remains of a fire under old cedar with branches broken up to 5 m high suggesting that hikers had climbed up to look for something or to hide from someone." -this site. 16ft
Loose-Cannon
22-09-2017 13:29 (GMT)
Nigel...
Never have I claimed the 2Yuris died from falling from the cedar, nor have I suggested their other injuries directly resulted in their deaths. You have an opinion that BL spicifically targets the back of hands and the face of its victims. I am of the opinion that there very well have been a tree climbing exercise, but some of these injuries are a clear sign of possible fight, i.e 'hand/hand combat'.
We all know from their photo evidence that these injuries were not present in the days prior, and you shouldn't get them by pitching a tent in deep snow or walking down a hill.
You have your opinion and now we should hear from the rest of the board what they think.
We have several more victims to go through.....
Nigel Evans
22-09-2017 12:32 (GMT)
Something else like a superhuman force
Nigel Evans
22-09-2017 12:15 (GMT)
@LC - i think you're looking too hard at bruises/abrasions that could have already been there and too little at the question of the two deaths. The probability of them both dying in one fall is too small. Could happen but unlikely. Something else.
Loose-Cannon
22-09-2017 12:09 (GMT)
He would have had to slid up/down the trunk causing all the arm/leg abrasions... maybe cheeks. Then fell out of the top whacking a dif location of his head on every branch branch on the way down, and somehow not break any bones.
When I was 7 years old, I fell out a tree and snapped my elbow. Yeah... I was a climber.
Nigel Evans
22-09-2017 11:59 (GMT)
@LC - imo a bad fall particularly on sharp stubs of cedar branches lands on fire concussed burns leg could explain YK. What's curious here is both the Yuris seem to die early in the sequence of events. That's pushing probabilities imo. They could both be involved in the fall but both dying?
Loose-Cannon
22-09-2017 11:31 (GMT)
-" if these guys have fallen out of a tree then split lips etc are explainable. Ivanov mentions that there was a small piece of flesh hanging from the cedar, looks a really bad slide/fall."
Normally I would agree, but not with this... Way too many of said injuries to be causes by one fall.
Nigel Evans
22-09-2017 10:54 (GMT)
@LC - YuriK's finger wasn't missing? Not true.
@KMM - my theory would have it that Igor waited too long for the Zina and Rustem to return and was suffering from hypothermia = confusion. He seems to have been stopped ascending by small thicket, i.e. too confused to navigate around.
@LC - if these guys have fallen out of a tree then split lips etc are explainable. Ivanov mentions that there was a small piece of flesh hanging from the cedar, looks a really bad slide/fall.
Lyndasez
22-09-2017 03:20 (GMT)
@LC, You skipped the best part! They got bored with the violent-accident on this one, an got creative...
"The left-hand lower half pants offline until the level of the knee joint, the edge of the fabric pants in areas breakage pants misaligned with charring the fabric." . NOTE: Good to know... His left outer pant leg was missing up to the knee with a jagged charred edge.
"in an outer pocket a coil of copper wire and silk pink ribbon." . NOTE: I thought this was a bit odd, but whatever .
"On the left leg cotton sock torn, the edges of his charred." . NOTE: Charred left sock also.
"In the left temporal region there are two abrasions of a brownish-red color of parchment density, with a size of 1.2 by ?, 3 cm and 1 cm by 0.2 cm" . NOTE: Abrasions on the left temple.. welp somehow they got there! You decide.
In the middle third of the nose, a brown-red abrasion , parchment density, passing into the wound in the tip of the nose and wings with a defect of soft tissues measuring 1.8 x 2 cm. NOTE: Another abrasion. This one on the nose that goes right up to the point the tip of nose being missing. I do agree the missing tip of nose was from scavengers.
"Mucous lips of dark-cinnamon- colored parchment density, the mouth is closed, lips are swollen. Behind the lower." . NOTE: Swollen lips!! I don't think its possible for ship rats to swell up lips in extreme sub-zero temps.
"Behind the lower teeth flap epidermis pale gray color with papillary lines size of flap 1.8 to 0.6 cm." . NOTE: Cut lower lip into top two layers if skin... And size. The size is nearly 3/4 of an inch for all you non Brits. Thats one hell of a busted lip! .
"on the cheeks abrasion dark brown color parchment density" . NOTE: More abrasions to the face... More ship rat carnage? You decide .
"The auricles are swollen with a cyanotic red color" . NOTE: Red and Swollen ears!! Again... Swelling in sub temps.
"On the right side surface of the rib cage at the level of the axillary cavities abrasions of pale red color measuring 7 by 2 cm, without hemorrhages in the underlying tissues." . NOTE: More abrasions.... Right side of mid rib cage. Not so deep.
"At the rib margin of the right hypochondrium along the middle clavicle line abrasions of pale red color of parchment density of 2 x 1.2 cm size 1 x 1.2 cm, without hemorrhages in the underlying tissues." . NOTE: Another abrasion. Upper right chest inline with nipple. Not that deep
"The rear of the right hand is swollen. In the region of the metacarpophalangeal joints, soft tissues are whitish -gray in color, the fingers burolilovogo colors terminal phalanx dry dark brown color, n and rear of these fingers minor skin abrasions dark brown color parchment density. Palmar surface of the right hand bluish-red color with skin Ranko with jagged edges dark brown color at the base of the first finger. On the middle phalanx of the third (forwarded from the "average" - note). finger defect of the epidermis in shape and size coinciding with that found in the oral cavity". NOTE: Right hand swollen, blueish red color, jagged cut at base of index finger.... And a big chunk of the back of his hand missing...... Matches the chunk of skin found stuck in his own teeth.
"In the area of ??the left wrist joint, grazes of dark red color of parchment density of 5 x 2.5 cm, the rear of the left hand swelling". NOTE: Swollen left hand.
"Along the whole width of the rear - the left hand scalp wound with delaminated epidermis dark brown color parchment density measuring 8 x 2 cm". NOTE: Big damn cut roughly 3" by .75" above and behind the left ear.
"Rear fingers 2-5 left brush black color with wrinkled epidermis 5 thumb and dried up end phalanges. On the palmar surface, the soft tissues of the terminal phalanges are dried, dense. On average phalanges 4-5 fingers a skin wound of 1.5 x 1 cm and 1 x 0.5 cm of dark brown color, dense to the touch with charring". NOTE: Dried up... Frostbite.... Down to the bone in fact. Phalanges are the bones within the hand. Sounds like some burning also. Poor dude burnt his hand trying to prevent frostbite and failed.
"On the outer surface of the left buttock and the left thigh are areas of soft tissues of pink color and brown color of parchment density with a sliding epidermis on the site size 10 x 3 cm, 6 x 2 cm and 4 x 5 cm". NOTE: Basically another big ass abrasion... On the butt/thigh.
"On the antero-internal surface of the thigh abrasions of dark brown dark-red color of parchment density in size ? x 2 cm. 1 x 1.5 cm, and more small". NOTE: Same left thigh, inner abrasion... Smaller then the outer thigh/butt abrasion.
"On the inner surface of the upper third of the left thigh, three skin lesions ??? eynoy shape with smooth edges depth up to 0.3 cm. with sharp angles size of 1.5 to 04 cm. Left shin and ??? and swollen". NOTE: Strange lacerations and swelling of the upper 1/3 of the inner left thigh. Could quite possibly be from climbing a tree.... Ill give ya that one Nigel. NOTE: Big ass burn on lower shin/calf of leg... I thought it was the right, but this says left.
"On the posteromedial surface of the left lower leg abrasions dark brown color parchment density measuring 8 x 1.3 cm. ? x 1.5 cm and 2 x 1 cm". NOTE: Abrasion on the mid section of left calf
"The rear of the left foot is brown- brown in color with epidermis peeling sites measuring 10 x 4 cm. ??? The second finger is charred dark brown the color of the fabric ????? are dense to the touch". NOTE: Left heel skin peeling... More of the burn I believe. The ring-toe is charred
"On the front surface of the right thigh and lower leg, abrasions dark brown color of parchment density of 5 x 2 cm. 3 x 8 cm, 7 x 1 cm, and 2 x ? cm". NOTE: 4 Abrasions down the front of right leg.
Some of these injuries can be from climbing a tree or scuffling about in the woods etc, but the hand wounds, and swelling along with the cut lip, head, swollen lips and ears tell me he was in a scuffle with someone or something. You won't get this many external issues from one fall out a tree and he was in perfect health via photographic evidence in the days prior. He obtained all these injuries that fateful night.
KMM
22-09-2017 02:09 (GMT)
Nigel : My error, all three had fb on their fingers but none on their toes so no need for taking shoes off anyone which is how this got started
You don't need frostbite to tell you your toes are freezing (cold) !
Lyndasez
22-09-2017 01:02 (GMT)
@LC (Missing finger and blood blood blood. Sad)
Yes, I think this is one of the cedar Yuris, one climbed the tree, tried to hang on, caught a branch on the way down ripping off finger and accompanying skin to the back of his hand and tears to the legs.
@Nigel Evans @LC et al - Repeating my previous post :- (This relevant to your (and others?) frequent claims that there is obvious signs of combat. According to the above there isn't any at all, ever, and posters claiming otherwise need to see a doctor or explain why the official report is incorrect. Only the rav4 die from violence, probably superhuman but possibly not.) Yes, Nigel, I see sticks n stones caused the injuries to the tent3 an cedar2...and speeding cars and blomb blasts hit the Rav3...No mention of possible "ball lighting." So your theory is out the window!
Loose-Cannon
22-09-2017 00:07 (GMT)
Ah.... Forgot about this page! Lyndasez is gonna have a field day with this one.
@Lyndasez - fair comment, i used "Don't Go There" to quickly check and was fooled by the use of frostbite for Zina but cold and freezing for the other two.
My error, all three had fb on their fingers but none on their toes so no need for taking shoes off anyone which is how this got started.
I stand corrected .
Nigel Evans
21-09-2017 23:23 (GMT)
@Lyndasez - there are two groups, SZ/AK/NTB are recorded as violent, the rest as violent accident including RS. That's the finding. RS could have been "lucky" that he further away from the explosion that killed the rav4 so something like a chunk of snow or ice hit him on one side pushing his head against something else, maybe the ground maybe a tree. The fracture could also have been due to freezing.
Whatever, this whole combat thinking is divorced from the official reports. Officially it never happened.
Lyndasez
21-09-2017 23:15 (GMT)
Right out of the gate I see an inconsistency of Nigel's post about frostbite....
"Based on the data of the study, the corpse of Citizen DYATLOV Igor Alekseevich, 23 years old,"
" bladder, frostbite of the fingers of the extremities III and IV degree."
All 3 Zina, Rustem and Igor....
Lyndasez
21-09-2017 22:40 (GMT)
@Nigel, (which says he died of freezing and his fracture IS NOT attributed to violence.)
Agreed. He died of exposure, after something cracked up both sides the head and stunned him to a crawl....
"The death of Slobodin is violent - an accident."
Loose-Cannon
21-09-2017 22:14 (GMT)
@Lyndasez .
Same link... Look under the left column, at the top you will find the other autopsy reports... Scroll down on each one because the SECOND autopsy of the internals are there aswell.
Lyndasez
21-09-2017 21:48 (GMT)
OH this gets better n better! Thanks for the link, LC!
"The fracture of the left frontal bone found during internal investigation could occur when a citizen of Slobodin fell or a bruise of the head area about solid objects, such as stones, ice and so on. This closed trauma of the skull is caused by a blunt instrument. At the time of its appearance, it undoubtedly caused a state of short-term stunning of SLOBODIN and facilitated the fastest freezing of SLOBODINE. The absence of a pronounced cerebral hemorrhage gives reason to believe that the death of SLOBODIN occurred precisely as a result of its freezing. Body injuries found on the body of a citizen Slobodina, in the form of abrasions, scratches, and sieges are caused by a blunt instrument as a result of a fall or bruise on stones, ice and so on. Damage was caused both during life, as well as in the agonal state and posthumously. The data of the investigation of the corpse of SLOBODIN give grounds to believe that the food intake was 6-8 hours before the moment of death. The presence of alcohol during internal investigation was not detected. -2-
Taking into account the above bodily injuries, Slobodin could move and crawl in the first hours from the moment of their infliction. The death of Slobodin is violent - an accident."
Rustem couldn't move after being stunned by a blunt instrument ...but the injuries are on both sides of the head?!
Nigel Evans
21-09-2017 21:39 (GMT)
@LC et al - Repeating my previous post :- This relevant to your (and others?) frequent claims that there is obvious signs of combat. According to the above there isn't any at all, ever, and posters claiming otherwise need to see a doctor or explain why the official report is incorrect. Only the rav4 die from violence, probably superhuman but possibly not.
Nigel Evans
21-09-2017 21:35 (GMT)
@LC - which says he died of freezing and his fracture IS NOT attributed to violence.
Loose-Cannon
21-09-2017 21:20 (GMT)
No Nigel.... Lyndasez was referencing YOUR comments made after the file quote.
BTW... Never have I stated the cedar2 or tent3 died as a result of their injuries. I simply acknowledge they have them.
Lyndasez.... Here is Rustems full file... Not just what Nigel wants you to see and think that's everything.
@Lyndasez - that's the official report that we're always being told to consult by you know who
Lyndasez
21-09-2017 20:41 (GMT)
@Nigel, Really, no signs of violence, only on RAV4?!
What's this: "Fracture of the frontal bone and hemorrhages (shaded areas) in the temporalis muscles that were found on the skull of Rustem Slobodin"
"swelling and a lot of small abrasions on both sides of the face"
"bruises in the metacarpophalangeal joints on both hands. Similar bruises are common in hand to hand combat"
Nigel Evans
21-09-2017 20:27 (GMT)
@LC - this is poor stuff even for you, no signs of violence at the tent or the cedar only at the ravine.
Only the rav4 show any signs of violence according to the official report (from your link) :-
"Forensic medical examination found that Dyatlov, Doroshenko, Krivonischenko and Kolmogorov died from the action of low temperature (frozen), none of them had physical injuries, not counting minor scratches and abrasions. Slobodin had a crack in the skull 6 cm long, which had spread to 0.1 cm, but Slobodin died from cooling."
This relevant to your (and others?) frequent claims that there is obvious signs of combat. According to the above there isn't any at all, ever, and posters claiming otherwise need to see a doctor or explain why the official report is incorrect. Only the rav4 die from violence, probably superhuman but possibly not.
Lyndasez
21-09-2017 20:19 (GMT)
As I see it, Ivanov got back to home base with his report and was told to burn it along with those military leg bindings...he then threw out a handful of red herrings based on sightings of light phenomena and whatnot to obscure the obvious!
"Neither traces of the struggle nor the presence of other people were found in the tent or near it."
Into this....
"Nigel Evans 21-09-2017 18:53 (GMT) Agreed, the official report specifically states that there were no signs of violence either at the tent or the cedar."
Nothing about the cedar Nigel... Nice little lie ya had there.
Again.... Thats your Boy Ivanov and he inspected the tent for like 39 seconds. There was also a whole mountain and valley in which blows took place.
Loose-Cannon
21-09-2017 19:53 (GMT)
I think its because there were only three injured in the den... The deformed neck was post mortem.
"Based on the study of the corpse Kolevatov believe that his death came as a result of exposure to low temperature. The body injuries found on the body of Kolevatov are in the head area - defects in soft tissues, as well as "bath" skin, are posthumous changes in a corpse that was recently found before it was found in the water. Kolevatov's death is violent."
Nigel Evans
21-09-2017 19:51 (GMT)
@LC - link, see 13-09-2017 11:15 (GMT) it's in hibinaud
Lyndasez
21-09-2017 19:44 (GMT)
@LC (Link to the page source Nigel...... Link)
Oh no, Ivanovs gut reaction was murder....then this:
"You know, Slava, it seems to me that there were two impacts of the elemental forces unknown to us: first – it was a mental impact bs it kicked them out of the tent just out of the blue, and the second – the physical impact that destroyed the three who went away from the main group”. – Perhaps, Ivanov learned something that was a state secret?"
see...he said 3, he knew Luddy was trying to reach the others when she ran into a ledge.
Lyndasez
21-09-2017 19:31 (GMT)
@Loose-Cannon " the entire den hole is a fraudulent attempt to create a narrative and hide something."
For sure! But the search party didn't dig that thing, it was there...what are the odds them setting down camp in the open breeze, when there was a pre-built encampment so close...and why weren't these kids allowed binoculars or a telescope??? Distress flare?? ..a lighter??? Did they have lanterns...jeez.
Loose-Cannon
21-09-2017 19:23 (GMT)
Link to the page source Nigel...... Link
Loose-Cannon
21-09-2017 19:21 (GMT)
"Agreed, the official report specifically states that there were no signs of violence either at the tent or the cedar"
I think I read similar in one of the testimonys, was it Ivanovs statement about the tent? LINK it! But the problem for your claim of 'no violence' is that its a big mountain and a big valley... And of course the autopsys? show otherwise. Where did each blow take place... On the slop, woods, creek.... No idea.b
Nigel Evans
21-09-2017 19:20 (GMT)
@Lyndasez - no sign of human violence
Loose-Cannon
21-09-2017 19:16 (GMT)
The den depth was within one of the "interrogations" or testimonys somewhere... Thats where all the den info comes from... Different testimonys. I don't think there is a spicific document regarding the den. Much of the same with the tent. I think you may be right in that the entire den hole is a fraudulent attempt to create a narrative and hide something.
Lyndasez
21-09-2017 19:09 (GMT)
@KMM, Aha, the plot thickens! Thank you!
KMM
21-09-2017 19:05 (GMT)
Lyndasez 21-09-2017 18:50 (GMT) @KMM, Thank you for that info...I was going by a previous post of LC....
( BTW... The depth in which the staged den floor was found IS IN THE CASE FILES. How about reading it.... No?)
Yes, but nothing about the "den" ever being used.
Lyndasez
21-09-2017 19:01 (GMT)
@Nigel, (Agreed, the official report specifically states that there were no signs of violence either at the tent or the cedar.)
This seems to knock out your theory then. Being hit in the gut with a super energized ball of electricity seems a pretty violent way to go!
Nigel Evans
21-09-2017 18:53 (GMT)
@Bob - "With whom were the hikers engaged in "hand/hand combat?" No tracks were found other than their own and those of rescuers."
Agreed, the official report specifically states that there were no signs of violence either at the tent or the cedar.
KMM
21-09-2017 18:51 (GMT)
@Bob, (With whom were the hikers engaged in "hand/hand combat?" No tracks were found other than their own and those of rescuers.)
There weren't any tracks of anyone found except for a stretch down the slope from the DP group. None around the cedar, none around the tent, none around the ravine. None from DP group or anyone else
Lyndasez
21-09-2017 18:50 (GMT)
@KMM, Thank you for that info...I was going by a previous post of LC....
( BTW... The depth in which the staged den floor was found IS IN THE CASE FILES. How about reading it.... No?)
KMM
21-09-2017 18:44 (GMT)
KMM 21-09-2017 18:39 (GMT) Lyndasez : :I'm starting to think they never used the den, all staged, till I find further documentation otherwise.
You won't find any, there is none.
Lyndasez
21-09-2017 18:40 (GMT)
@Bob, (With whom were the hikers engaged in "hand/hand combat?" No tracks were found other than their own and those of rescuers.)
The tracks of barefoot hikers...the heat from the body melted snow beneath an left a footprint of ice. Anyone who had proper footwear, their prints could've been snowed over or brushed away.
KMM
21-09-2017 18:39 (GMT)
I'm starting to think they never used the den, all staged, till I find further documentation otherwise.
You won't find any, there is none.
Lyndasez
21-09-2017 18:32 (GMT)
@Nigel ( "move the injured", he's not moving them anywhere, flail chests are extremely painful, each breath really hurts. Plus he has to strip the 2yuris so it might be considered inappropriate for Zina. Rustem might have been injured by then and not much use, as walking wounded getting him back to the tent might be best. Take your point about why not build another fire. Sending Zina back would be the gentlemenly thing to do, she'd get back to her boots and warmer clothing long before him.)
I've experienced being thrown into a wedge of shale by a running stream. Yes afterwards was put on meds to breath. However in life an death situations you take the chance, moving them to safety. Manners an customs don't apply here. Strictly live or die. I'm starting to think they never used the den, all staged, till I find further documentation otherwise.
Loose-Cannon
21-09-2017 18:28 (GMT)
Aorta three times size.... methanol..... poisonous... Inhalation.... choking... Pulmonary edema.... foaming? from the mouth... horking.....
Look at the position of his arms when frozen in death. Dude looks like he was starving for air or similar.
Leaving the tent would mean a change in elevation. They could have thought it would be better in the valley, but could have actually been worse.
Bob Lichtenberger
21-09-2017 18:22 (GMT)
With whom were the hikers engaged in "hand/hand combat?" No tracks were found other than their own and those of rescuers.
Lyndasez
21-09-2017 18:20 (GMT)
Anyone have a link to the official documentation on the DEN? Can you throw me a bone here, I'm running down blind alleys looking for it, thanks.
Nigel Evans
21-09-2017 18:18 (GMT)
@KMM - "Igor wasn"t wearing shoes either. All of the rav4 would of been dead by then " The patholgist estimated that Nicolai lived for two hours but unconcious. Semyon had leather slippers maybe they didn't fit? Maybe Igor didn't need footwear because it wasn't that cold? It is one of the mysteries how Igor had no shoes or gloves but died of cold without any frostbite. Ditto Rustem, Zina had a little fb on her fingers, none on her feet.
@Lyndasez - "move the injured", he's not moving them anywhere, flail chests are extremely painful, each breath really hurts. Plus he has to strip the 2yuris so it might be considered inappropriate for Zina. Rustem might have been injured by then and not much use, as walking wounded getting him back to the tent might be best. Take your point about why not build another fire. Sending Zina back would be the gentlemenly thing to do, she'd get back to her boots and warmer clothing long before him.
KMM
21-09-2017 18:18 (GMT)
Lyndasez : Secondly, "take photos of Americans!?" No, no, first thing they'd have opened an tossed would be that camera, had they met
The pic of SZ shows a camera case. I don't believe anywhere states there was a camera found in it. I think its stated SZ had more than 1 camera
Loose-Cannon
21-09-2017 18:17 (GMT)
Nigel Evans 21-09-2017 18:00 (GMT) "@LC - don't sweat it, being an "internet investigator" is meant to be fun."
I insist... It will be fun. You'll love it.
Don't be scared. Hey, while I'm at it... You ever think of getting together with your fellow BL theorist (particularly 8 others) and take a few weeks to explore the DP area in winter? I think you should... The BL gods are calling you.
KMM
21-09-2017 18:08 (GMT)
Lyndasez 21-09-2017 17:57 (GMT) @KMM, As suggested, I've read the theory pg of this site. I see a few issues to address. Firstly, you don't hand over tainted material as is, don't think they addressed that, however it could've been housed in the lining of that old military leg binding that disappeared from evidence.
Secondly, "take photos of Americans!?" No, no, first thing they'd have opened an tossed would be that camera, had they met.
Thirdly, where'd they come from, were they part of village group, police, disguised as mansi...did the hikers run out to help a distressed comrade and we're ambushed?
Yes, that theory leaves questions also
Nigel Evans
21-09-2017 18:00 (GMT)
@LC - don't sweat it, being an "internet investigator" is meant to be fun.
Lyndasez
21-09-2017 17:57 (GMT)
@KMM, As suggested, I've read the theory pg of this site. I see a few issues to address. Firstly, you don't hand over tainted material as is, don't think they addressed that, however it could've been housed in the lining of that old military leg binding that disappeared from evidence.
Secondly, "take photos of Americans!?" No, no, first thing they'd have opened an tossed would be that camera, had they met.
Thirdly, where'd they come from, were they part of village group, police, disguised as mansi...did the hikers run out to help a distressed comrade and we're ambushed? Who knows, have to put the pieces of disinformation together and patchwork backwards.
KMM
21-09-2017 17:47 (GMT)
@LC - why didn't the returning three remove shoes from the dead? Because they weren't dead. Igor immediately sent Zina and Rustem back to the tent for more stuff whilst he stayed with the rav4. When they didn't return he set off later but was overtaken by hypothermia.
And shoes should of been given to returning 3 without waiting till rav4 died. you know, voluntarily
KMM
21-09-2017 17:23 (GMT)
Nigel Evans 21-09-2017 12:29 (GMT) @LC - why didn't the returning three remove shoes from the dead? Because they weren't dead. Igor immediately sent Zina and Rustem back to the tent for more stuff whilst he stayed with the rav4. When they didn't return he set off later but was overtaken by hypothermia.
Igor wasn"t wearing shoes either. All of the rav4 would of been dead by then
Lyndasez
21-09-2017 17:12 (GMT)
@Nigel (Because they weren't dead. Igor immediately sent Zina and Rustem back to the tent for more stuff whilst he stayed with the rav4. When they didn't return he set off later but was overtaken by hypothermia.) This is making less and less sense. Since Igor is the leader an strongest, he'd first make a roaring fire out of that staged "den seat," move the injured to dry and warm surroundings. Leave Zina to tend, he an Rustem would retrieve supplies.. Seems the only one to really tend would be SZ. Luddy was trying to join the 3 guys when she expired, AK I think had the snapped neck, and the coroner said, I believe SZ could've lasted up to an hour....all these guys with pencil an paper yet nothing recorded...yep no cover up here?!!!
Loose-Cannon
21-09-2017 16:19 (GMT)
I can see Im going to have to make an extremely long post breaking down some of these autopsies since you consistently ignore things at will. Then, it will be there for easy copy/paste for the following 90 times you decide to downplay the severity if the injuries obtained while living. See you on Sunday... Im out of town for work again and didn't bring the tablet.
It also amazes me you still refuse the fact humans CAN inflict the types of injuries of the rav4.
Nigel Evans
21-09-2017 15:39 (GMT)
@LC - "Nobody knows.... Not even Nigel " Very true, we have to rely on eye witness accounts :- Meanwhile, the main group found dead Slobodina about 1000 m from the tent, was clothed in a ski suit, cap, socks and one boots. His head was sent to the tent, ... On hand were abrasions and skin incisions received during falls or breaking branches.
Not fighting...
Nigel Evans
21-09-2017 15:17 (GMT)
Shoes, could be KMM - 21-09-2017 03:37 (GMT)
Loose-Cannon
21-09-2017 14:45 (GMT)
You lost me on the shoes man... Who, what, when, where?
Igors position. #1 I never claimed ALL three died traveling down slope, nor did I state NONE of them. #2 The saplings are small.... The type of stuff you walk right through or next to. And who is to say while laying down it wasn't chosen as 'some' blockage from wind. Tiny saplings are not a deal breaker on the downslope possibility.
Nobody knows.... Not even Nigel
Nigel Evans
21-09-2017 13:54 (GMT)
Last post wrt Igor.
Nigel Evans
21-09-2017 12:45 (GMT)
Atmanaki: The impression was that he tried to go up [the slope], judging by the way his body was situated; and next to his head was a cluster of small saplings in which he was probably stuck. But if he had been heading down, then he would have had to go around them to get into the position where his body was discovered.
Oss, Svetlana. Don't Go There: Post Mortem (pp. 58-59). LiberWriter.com. Kindle Edition.
Nigel Evans
21-09-2017 12:29 (GMT)
@LC - why didn't the returning three remove shoes from the dead? Because they weren't dead. Igor immediately sent Zina and Rustem back to the tent for more stuff whilst he stayed with the rav4. When they didn't return he set off later but was overtaken by hypothermia.
Nigel Evans
21-09-2017 12:22 (GMT)
Atmanaki: On completely open, flat snow, swept by wind and snow, Akselrod’s dog became interested in something. We dug a little, and under ten centimetres of snow we found an elbow. The general location of the body was beneath 50cm of snow. The head was pointing in the direction of the tent, and the whole position was typical for a person trying to walk or crawl uphill. The team recognized Kolmogorova. Prosecutor Tempalov states: There are no trees for seventy metres. The body lies, like the previous bodies, face to the ground on its right side. The arms are bent under the body. Both legs are half bent, and the right is tucked up into her stomach. This gives the impression she was climbing. Her face is covered in blood. In the small of her back there’s blood. It can be conjectured that she didn’t try to crawl forward, but was trying to maintain her position. There appeared to be no injuries on her body with the exception of some grazes on her face. She probably got these from falling down on the stony ridges.
Oss, Svetlana. Don't Go There: Post Mortem (pp. 59-60). LiberWriter.com. Kindle Edition.
Nigel Evans
21-09-2017 12:21 (GMT)
@LC - "Except of course the laundry list of hand/hand combat injuries. :/"
But only on Rustem, Zina and Igor? No one else. Imo some of it is a candidate for predation.
Nigel Evans
21-09-2017 12:10 (GMT)
@LC/@KMM - the cause of ball lightning and other light phenomena is unknown. The microwave cavity hypothesis is one of several attempts by top physicists to explain it. But it is for the science of the future to determine it's true cause. In seeking to explain the DPI i elect to use this hypothesis.
Anna Yordanova
21-09-2017 11:27 (GMT)
About the so called "hot spot" and crunchy ice. when snow is compressed by people moving across it can be compacted to a depth of 20 -30 centimetres this compacted snow forms an icy crust that is quite resistant to degradation as long as the temperatures remain well below zero
Loose-Cannon
21-09-2017 09:41 (GMT)
"no evidence exists to suggest that the hikers were attacked & murdered by those loggers or anyone else."
Except f course the laundry list of hand/hand combat injuries. :/
And because the corpses of the three individuals found on the slope were positioned with their heads uphill, it's pretty safe to conclude that they were, indeed, attempting to return to the tent.
Bob Lichtenberger
21-09-2017 06:26 (GMT)
Loose-Cannon: no evidence exists to suggest that the hikers were attacked & murdered by those loggers or anyone else.
Loose-Cannon
21-09-2017 04:38 (GMT)
Another thing of interest.
The last people to see the group alive were the loggers. These people imo in the pictures just seem.... 'off'. Like Deliverance, but 1959 Russia. 8^o The body language and facial looks of these Russian hillbillies give me the creeps! Especially the red headed bearded leader with the Manson 1000yard stare. God only knows what kinda shenanigans these weirdos were up to isolated in the backwoods. Was the group followed by the logger creeps? Did they supply them with anything? Where did the bags and bags of biscuits come from? The flask of alcohol.... thinned with methanol? Literal wood alcohol? People die in their own vomit all the time from that crap. Just food for thought.
KMM
21-09-2017 03:37 (GMT)
Loose-Cannon 21-09-2017 03:22 (GMT) Another thing.
Many seem to assume that Rustem, Igor, and Zina were headed BACK to the tent simply because what... Their heads were towards the tent when found? I call BS.
I've always wondered about which direction they were actually going also. If they were going back to the tent to get equipment to help all, somebody would of said, " here wear my shoes"
Loose-Cannon
21-09-2017 03:31 (GMT)
Also.
Rustems hat was just a little pulled back. If I were about to take my last breath and die of numbing hypothermia with my face buried in deep snow, the last thing I would be worried about is fixing my cover. He could have been squirming around face down or literally nose dived for all we know. To say his hat is somehow contradictory to a murder theory is absurd.
Loose-Cannon
21-09-2017 03:22 (GMT)
Another thing.
Many seem to assume that Rustem, Igor, and Zina were headed BACK to the tent simply because what... Their heads were towards the tent when found? I call BS.
If you are walking down a decent grade slope of a mountain and for one reason or another collapsed in pain, discomfort, exhaustion etc, you wouldn't sit or especially lay with your feet uphill. Its unnatural and uncomfortable to say the least. Its one of things you would naturally do without even thinking about it. You would go down on your butt, eventually lay back, and possibly roll over.
Point being.... NOBODY knows if they expired headed to, or away from the tent. Fact of the day.
KMM
21-09-2017 03:12 (GMT)
As I see it, if you are going with BL theory, you have to have some tangible facts or witnesses to support it. Otherwise you can take about any and all unexplained disappearances/deaths and holler BALL LIGHNING
KMM
21-09-2017 03:02 (GMT)
Loose-Cannon 21-09-2017 02:13 (GMT)
Yeah, the cuts, tears, whatever in the tent, and how and when they happened leads to more questions than answers
Loose-Cannon
21-09-2017 02:13 (GMT)
KMM...
I think your exactly right. When it comes right down to brass tacks, the BL theory doesn't hold any more water then any other theory. :/ Heck, the cuts in the tent (to me) look exactly like hatchet/axe cuts, and curved shovel cuts. Its really not hard to imagine a flap pealed back making the inside of the canvas now facing outward. You would have one heck of a challenge attempting to cut a semicircle in thick canvas yet alone do it several times unintentionally. :/
The official case files state a flap was pealed back on the windward side.... Thats it! The rest was done when Ivanov ordered them to dig it and its contents out with an axe and shovel, then drag the darn thing over rocks and ice to the helicopter pad. 8^o
hy·poth·e·sis hi?paTH?s?s/Submit noun a supposition or proposed explanation made on the basis of limited evidence as a starting point for further investigation. "professional astronomers attacked him for popularizing an unconfirmed hypothesis" synonyms: theory, theorem, thesis, conjecture, supposition, postulation, postulate, proposition, premise, assumption; More PHILOSOPHY a proposition made as a basis for reasoning, without any assumption of its truth.
Loose-Cannon
21-09-2017 00:54 (GMT)
Nigel...
You quoted ONE of several theories as to what BL is. Where is the documentation of powerful microwaves of this nature recorded directly from a real/live BL? If there isn't any... Its only one guess out of many. This is in no way shape or form 'proof' of..... Anything. You also do not have any proof of any 'hot spot'. The 'report' of crunchy ice from a reporter looking for a story. Amazing evidence, or more fake news? You know the Russians are propaganda masters right? I mean... This wouldn't be the first time a 'journalist' embellished something or flat out made up a story. Thats what they do... Always looking for an elaborate story and its common for them to make crap up as they go along.
In reality, there are wonky reports of..... Yeti, UFOs etc. How is this any different?
Don't get me wrong... Its just a huge reach. Did BL do it? Perhaps, but theory is very weak and based on nearly nothing. But possible... Like several others.
Its a 50/50 whether or not they even slashed their way out of the tent in the first place. 'If' they did, BL could be one of several reasons as to why, but it does not explain the casual walking away from it. That's really about it other then some sightings proving BL exists.
Loose-Cannon
20-09-2017 23:37 (GMT)
I just double checked the case files for 'hot spot' and any other highly unusual characteristics concerning the snow/ice. ..... Nothin. Must not have been anything? worth noting or otherwise special. Who woulda thunk it! Some city folk journalist should stay at home. Why risk a broken leg!
Lyndasez
20-09-2017 23:08 (GMT)
@ Lightning
(the strange thing is there is a circular hot spot near the tent, diameter about 4 m and it was noticed that snow down the slope was thinner (melted). So there was some sphere object that melted the snow locally and bigger microwave event that melted the snow on the slope)
Rotors of a helicopter style aircraft (circles), heat off the craft? (Melted snow?)
Nigel Evans
20-09-2017 22:44 (GMT)
@Lyndasez - "Where is this nursing station the remaining 3 erected? In the rushing water of the ravine?!" Err it wouldn't have been rushing anywhere on Feb 1st? Only later in May? Even if there was a trickle it would have almost certainly been under a layer of snow/ice. In the ravine the night cold would dominate any meagre day sun.
@Nigel, (So Semyon being a true professional is lying there knowing that it's not good for him so he tries to leave a record of what happened to complement his photographs. But he sadly for us doesn't. )
Where is this nursing station the remaining 3 erected? In the rushing water of the ravine?! What the...an SZ, after sustained bomb-blast injuries is making notes in the water to compliment his destroyed photos! That's dedication! This is turning into a Stephen King movie...wth!?
Lightning
20-09-2017 22:26 (GMT)
But the strange thing is there is a circular hot spot near the tent, diameter about 4 m and it was noticed that snow down the slope was thinner (melted). So there was some sphere object that melted the snow locally and bigger microwave event that melted the snow on the slope?
Lyndasez
20-09-2017 22:12 (GMT)
@Nigel, Ooh, the microwave thing.....remembered!
Lyndasez
20-09-2017 22:04 (GMT)
@Nigel, ( The 2 yuris display this level of fb BUT NO ONE ELSE?) "softened and whitened skin (maceration) of the fingers and feet, sign consisted with putrefaction in a wet environment"<==RAV4
Zina had frostbite, Rustem had skull fractures, Igor protected extremities better? Some dressed better than others...where you going with the frostbite thing, I forgot? Oof!
Nigel Evans
20-09-2017 21:41 (GMT)
@LC - "Too bad there isn't any anomalies recorded in the records as far as these drastically altered ice/snow patterns are concerned. :/" There was one more person present during the search, a journalist named Gennady Grygoryev. Thanks to him, we have more than the official and emotionless reports from the rescue team, and also some verbal inkling of the atmosphere: We came upon Mount 1079. The weather was calm, and the mountain was as if it was frozen in ice. The snow was compacted. There were ice-covered rock craters all around. The going was so slippery that, as I was carrying the camera and notebook, I almost broke my leg … The corpses were frozen and broken like glass.
Oss, Svetlana. Don't Go There: Post Mortem (p. 59). LiberWriter.com. Kindle Edition.
"What do they add to windshield washer fluid to keep it from freezing? " Methanol doesn't explain the curious frostbite profile? Glad you're onboard with drastically altered ice/snow patterns.
KMM
20-09-2017 21:26 (GMT)
Loose-Cannon 20-09-2017 21:15 (GMT) Its a wonder they were not found butt naked. Lol Too bad there isn't any anomalies recorded in the records as far as these drastically altered ice/snow patterns are concerned. :/
You know what else melts snow and ice? Quiz time.... What do they add to windshield washer fluid to keep it from freezing?
I'm going to help Nigel out here : it rhyme's with smethanol :-l
Loose-Cannon
20-09-2017 21:15 (GMT)
Its a wonder they were not found butt naked. Lol Too bad there isn't any anomalies recorded in the records as far as these drastically altered ice/snow patterns are concerned. :/
You know what else melts snow and ice? Quiz time.... What do they add to windshield washer fluid to keep it from freezing?
KMM
20-09-2017 21:10 (GMT)
Nigel Evans 20-09-2017 20:47 (GMT) @Lyndasez - yes maam. @KMM - Admin is a very pleasant lady, have you clicked on the About tab?
Been there, Done that
Nigel Evans
20-09-2017 20:59 (GMT)
@LC - not if it was just mild warming probably harmless in the short term, maybe longer term cancer etc. If it was strong enough to cook them it would have melted the snow completely as well perhaps. But raise the microwave strength a little higher and it starts interfering with the nervous system and creating nerve damage. Then people find they're getting clumsy and falling over, getting a lot of scratches and bruising. Raise it a bit more and they cannot operate their limbs properly, they just lose locomotion. Returning three?
Loose-Cannon
20-09-2017 20:48 (GMT)
What Nigel is not telling you is...
While microwaves may not heat up the air... Everything else would be. Given the fact humans are mostly water, they would have been cooked like last nights leftovers. The autopsy reports mention nothing of the sort. You would think they woul know!
Nigel Evans
20-09-2017 20:47 (GMT)
@Lyndasez - yes maam. @KMM - Admin is a very pleasant lady, have you clicked on the About tab?
KMM
20-09-2017 20:31 (GMT)
Nigel Evans 20-09-2017 20:16 (GMT) @KMM - talking to yourself now
Cant argue with you, I don't want the Admin jumping all over me ! :-)
Lyndasez
20-09-2017 20:28 (GMT)
@Nigel, (KMM - talking to yourself now )
Now, now, Nigel, I believe that was an extension of a conversation with me. He or she was excluding a theory, as you do with others...
Lyndasez
20-09-2017 20:18 (GMT)
@KMM, (Look under theories tab on this site, the first theory explains better then I can.)
Thanks, will check that out.
@Nigel, (Sounds like i'm ahead of you then... )
Oh lightyears ahead, ole buddy! I'm running against microwaves here! ;c)
Nigel Evans
20-09-2017 20:16 (GMT)
@KMM - talking to yourself now
Nigel Evans
20-09-2017 20:13 (GMT)
@Lyndasez - "the rav4 weren't preserved in snow they were decomposed". Not really they'd been in the freezer until a short time before being found in the stream. They'd lost eyes and an tongue probably from predation but everything else including the internals was there to examine. Google images frostbite to see some graphic images, if they had any of that the autopsy would record it.
Based on the above the people running around in their socks should have got fb in minutes, in an hour the tissue would be lost/blackened? The 2 yuris display this level of fb BUT NO ONE ELSE? As said it's really weird... Unless the condition of the snow indicating it has been raised in temp close to it's melt point (thaw/freeze) applied to that night? But then how do the 2yuris get it so bad? Enter the microwave warming theory, this warms the snow (water molecules) but not the air so the snow could be +1C but the air temp and associated wind chill could still be very extreme so if the 2yuris stay up in the cedar for any length of time they get bad fb but 4/5metres below them everyone is ok...
KMM
20-09-2017 20:05 (GMT)
I am not "married" to the cia/kgb theory. just a jumping off point looking for what explains the DPi best. It certainly is NOT BL !
KMM
20-09-2017 19:57 (GMT)
@KMM (I'm of the thinking that there was suppose to be a meeting between a kgb agent and western intelligence to transfer some radioactive clothing to the west.)
If I understand correctly, your belief is SZ? was a double-agent, his plan of exchange uncovered and Military elite activated, no survivors...and CIA or MI6 detained, or also destroyed? What was the importance of the clothes?
I'm thinking SZ was working for the kgb, maybe another also. I think Igor would of been made aware of this in order to change the route. Something went wrong and they were killed by the group they were to meet. The radioactive clothing and what location (city) it came from would tell a lot about what activity was going on there.
Look under theories tab on this site, the first theory explains better then I can.
Lyndasez
20-09-2017 19:56 (GMT)
@LC, Oh, no, no, thanks! Was just trying to get a handle on the enormity of undertaking constructing a shelter under severe conditions. Dont think they would see a mansi shelter as the only one I could find looks like an igloo, doubt they'd invade..in pitch dark armed with matches and no lighter, jeez.
Nigel Evans
20-09-2017 19:52 (GMT)
@Lyndasez - "I'm not married to one scenario as of yet." Sounds like i'm ahead of you then...
Lyndasez
20-09-2017 19:49 (GMT)
@Nigel, "Bu they weren't, no frostbite on the rav4. Only the 2yuris show extensive FB. Something happening there no one's thought of yet. The 2yuris are an anomaly compared to the others."
The RAV4 weren't preserved in snow like the others, they were severely decomposed, who could tell if they were frostbitten?
As to the Yuris, they all branched off and possibly given jobs, they were wood supply/fire keepers, (possibly where all the wood came from, for that fancy seat in the den?) one fell out of tree, knocked out the other...an off we go...
Loose-Cannon
20-09-2017 19:43 (GMT)
Still running your gums I see eh Nigel. Quite acting like a man-baby.
Lyndasez... I was referencing Lightning. I'm more then happy to help you out however. Iirc the depth was 5m. I can find it again if need be.
Lyndasez
20-09-2017 19:26 (GMT)
@Nigel, I said nothing about any band of killers, my theory is evolving by including or excluding this or that as more info comes in....I'm not married to one scenario as of yet.
Nigel Evans
20-09-2017 19:22 (GMT)
Banning people doesn't get my vote, plus it's not very practical here.
But i will make two points to the rudest poster who uses the crudest language commonly with a lot of capitals :-
@Lyndasez - "Oh for pity's sake, I'm disputing accounts the victims built it! Can we stay on the same page." You've confused me then asking where's the roof? It's my assumption it was a snowcave?
"....and whilst we're on it, when accounting your theory, could you throw in a a name or 2, like Zina ...Igor, all these initials, gives me pause de-ciphering it all, thank you." What about the Yuris? YuriD and YuriK...
"(SZ was found holding notebook and pencil but nothing written apparently, so i win) How so, I said they had notebooks, you disputed? " He hadn't written anything, my little joke (not my best perhaps).
"Additionally, now you have to explain speeding car crash injuries which left SZ still holding his, blank notepad!? " Ah now this is one of the killer facts against the murder most foul theory. I would maintain that after the rav4 are injured the returning three setup a nursing station to try and make them comfortable including distributing clothing from the dead to the living. So Semyon being a true professional is lying there knowing that it's not good for him so he tries to leave a record of what happened to complement his photographs. But he sadly for us doesn't. Now how do those facts fit with a band of killers running amok? "Don't kill me just yet because i want to leave a little note"? Ditto Rustem, he his found practically face down in the snow but his little cap is curiously placed right on top of his head http://image.ibb.co/gM5Gz5/712202.jpg . Was that a random accident or did Zina place it like that as she left him to try and get to the tent? Don't think the nasty killers would do it...
Don't know anything about Higgs boson collisions, my guess is that quantum physics isn't necessary for explaining BL, i think Kapitsa and the soliton theory (good name for a band) are on the right track.
Den could be a mansi hunter shelter.
Lyndasez
20-09-2017 19:03 (GMT)
@LC, ( BTW... The depth in which the staged den floor was found IS IN THE CASE FILES. How about reading it.... No?)
Don't mean to be the annoying new kid in the class, but I don't see any harm helping each other...I'll get up to speed, meanwhile, any help or direction is appreciated.
Loose-Cannon
20-09-2017 18:50 (GMT)
@Lyndasez I was referring to the width seeing its believed to have been dug sideways by the woodpeckers. Im guessing the search team are the only ones to have dug a shaft downward. You are correct... I do not believe the woodpeckers had the provisions of energy to dig a big cave in packed snow.
@Lightning Yes yes... Lets ban those whomever you disagree with and/or if they counterpunch when insulted.. What is this.... Communist Russia?? Its not my fault? your BL theory was wide open to be shredded. Its baseless to begin with as I have clearly shown. BTW... The depth in which the staged den floor was found IS IN THE CASE FILES. How about reading it.... No?
Lyndasez
20-09-2017 18:36 (GMT)
@KMM (I'm of the thinking that there was suppose to be a meeting between a kgb agent and western intelligence to transfer some radioactive clothing to the west.)
If I understand correctly, your belief is SZ? was a double-agent, his plan of exchange uncovered and Military elite activated, no survivors...and CIA or MI6 detained, or also destroyed? What was the importance of the clothes?
Lyndasez
20-09-2017 18:06 (GMT)
I don't mean to belabor the 'den' issue, however if we can exclude it being built by the RAV4. It opens a whole host of possibilities. Being someone's else's territory...could be the reason they chose not to camp there...plus it means they may have had company. Given that the crew were supplied with no modern means to investigate, binoculars, telescope..left them at a disadvantage if threats approached.
Lyndasez
20-09-2017 17:54 (GMT)
@Lightning, Thank you, 4m converts to 13ft. Let's say 4ft after snow...there's no way the RAV4 devised this...freezing temps, where's the shovel and its pitch dark...no?
Lightning
20-09-2017 17:42 (GMT)
Does anybody have (precise) measurements of den? I know it was 4 m deep.
Lyndasez
20-09-2017 17:34 (GMT)
(Welp, to me it looks rather small.... Say 1.5m in British measurements)
@LC, Oh boy, let's say the dude in the pic is conservatively 5Ft, there is another 4ft of snow above his head, making the entire height 9ft! Which I dispute was dug by the RAV4...just clarifying.
Lightning
20-09-2017 17:27 (GMT)
@Admin- Please ban Loose-Cannon. He is turning this forum into circus.
Lyndasez
20-09-2017 17:19 (GMT)
@Nigel, (All gone quiet here, must be my BL theory stunning everyone into silence...?)
Haha, it sure would be stunning if you actually thought BL was Higgs boson! I'm no student of quantum physics, however, if 2 collided, results would be catastrophic, no?
Lyndasez
20-09-2017 17:15 (GMT)
@Nigel, (The investigation team dug that pit out with shovels!!!)
Oh for pity's sake, I'm disputing accounts the victims built it! Can we stay on the same page.
....and whilst we're on it, when accounting your theory, could you throw in a a name or 2, like Zina ...Igor, all these initials, gives me pause de-ciphering it all, thank you.
(SZ was found holding notebook and pencil but nothing written apparently, so i win)
How so, I said they had notebooks, you disputed? Additionally, now you have to explain speeding car crash injuries which left SZ still holding his, blank notepad!?
Nigel Evans
20-09-2017 17:15 (GMT)
All gone quiet here, must be my BL theory stunning everyone into silence... ?
Loose-Cannon
20-09-2017 09:16 (GMT)
There ya go with that bogus hot-spot pink circle thingy..... All horse-shit.
You do know that snow etc changes after WEEKS... right?
Nigel Evans
20-09-2017 08:59 (GMT)
Wrt den twigs, i think they were found more in a mess and reconstructed for the photo to indicate their use.
Yes i know it's sloppy police work but you've got to remember that all the morgue photos are from the groups own cameras! That's right they've got a possible murder hunt for five people with the cameras containing film of possibly huge importance and they just use up the remaining frames on taking morgue piccies. This was Russia in 1959.
Nigel Evans
20-09-2017 08:42 (GMT)
@LC - "Nigel found a web page article (BL god particle) where some asshat claims a reporter (city folk) came onto the ridge and noticed the snow was crusty on top"
Now who is telling lies, this is the proper story...
The condition of the snow is one of the curiosities of the DPI. -------------------------------------------------------------------
The last photos show them digging the base for the tent out of normal snow having skied there. What the rescuers found was quite different, most of the snow across the whole slope had become extremely icy including the snow on the tent which was so tough to chip through that they damaged the tent. Rescuers couldn't ski to the tent but had to leave their skis and walk carefully the ground was so icy. This condition is consistent with thaw/refreeze as any skier knows however this is the north east face of a siberian mountain. Also there was a spot near the tent called the "hot spot" were the snow had suffciently melted that it had become corrugated in the high winds and refrozen as clear(ish) ice. http://www.viafanzine.jor.br/002imag/03_13/dyatlov4_cedro.jpg . http://www.viafanzine.jor.br/002imag/03_13/dyatlov4_nodoa.jpg . So signs of things warming up sometime after they took those photos of setting up camp.
Also there is the frostbite or lack of it. Seven of these people were in their socks at best and yet only the 2yuris show serious frostbite. Five people in their socks and no gloves for say two hours in -20C with a high wind chill creating effective temps of say -60C (before they got to the forest at least) they should have been getting FB in minutes in those conditions and serious FB in an hour (it probably took 20min to reach the cedar). But very modest fb in some of them with others having none at all. Really really weird.
So there are signs that this entire area was warmer than normal that night.
This fits with the BL theory in that the whole area was in a cloud of naturally created microwaves which also produced the BL. If you think that's science fiction then checkout - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_lightning#Microwave_cavity_hypothesis . True it is still just a theory and in that sense fiction, but one posited by a very senior physicist and one i'm very interested in hence my interest in the DPI. I think the 2012 photos at the DP are of a glow discharge as the theory has it. This theory also explains why the returning three all expire within 330m of each other trying to ascend the mountain, i.e. climb back into the microwave cloud. It also gives you suntans and skin damage. In fact the BL/microwave theory is the only one to explain all the facts and curiosities of the DPI. Nothing else comes half as close.
Nigel Evans
20-09-2017 07:56 (GMT)
@Lyndasez - "They dug down an found this?! They dug with what, a knife?!" The investigation team dug that pit out with shovels!!! The ravine had been filled up with drift between the DPI and the den's discovery.
ID's entry was in the groups diary, a more formal record of the trip. SZ was found holding notebook and pencil but nothing written apparently, so i win
Loose-Cannon
20-09-2017 05:28 (GMT)
KMM.. your right. It bothers me that the twigs are not crushed flat and otherwise have alot of air within them.
Loose-Cannon
20-09-2017 05:26 (GMT)
About the radiation...
I don't put as much into it as you may believe. I'm simply looking at all documented information available. From what I understand (maybe you know different) is that several substances naturally irradiate. Uranium is just what is used when producing plutonium. Either way said substances have to be enriched before reaching substantial levels. The specialist in the official case file didn't utter a single word about getting this naturally as if the run-off water deposited it, but yet quite the opposite. He went into detail regarding washing and how the levels would have been much higher beforehand.
Im more interested in the methanol idea at the moment... Historical context shows a great expansion of oil development at the time and the state had many 'bush drilling' outfits in the area. In the winter, they used enormous amounts of methanol to shove down a well hole to keep it from freezing. In fact, there is evidence showing those very helicopters that transported the bodies had normal operations in the area transporting large amounts of methanol. These model aircraft were literally designed for transporting heavy payloads. They were even instructed to drop their cargo in the outback country in the event of any type accident.... Engine failure, load securement etc...
Who is to say they didn't have a spill of methanol in the area that the woodpeckers waded through causing one or more people within the group to become sick? Through the skin, or through the lugs....either circumstance would have stopped the group in a rather precarious location under unfavorable conditions. Speaking of which, where are the rest of the group members when that photo of them digging in was taken? Where they off sight-seeing in whiteout conditions? Or were they off to the side being cared for? How do we 'know' all was well when the decision to dig in was made?
I can't help but remember being gassed in the Marines for the sole purpose of experiencing what its like to not have oxygen any more and how desperate you become to het away from it. God forbid you have methanol laced clothing fuming up a tent, or you start a fire only to find out it was a really bad idea once the fire ignites your socks etc just a bit too easily. I also can't help but wonder what happens to snow when covered in the substance....
Lots to thinks about...... No tunnel vision for me thanks.
Certainly doesn't look like something dug out from under meters of snow. Where is all the snow that would of been down in-between the branches? looks awful clean from being buried with snow
Loose-Cannon
20-09-2017 04:41 (GMT)
Never mind the fact searchers were eventually ordered to rotate back to civilization because they were becoming unhinged..... Just saying, its right there in the reports. 'tired' was how they described ot.
"They were fairly warm"
Perhaps.... Or, perhaps it was paradoxical undressing.
"Paradoxical undressing is a term for a phenomenon frequently seen in cases of lethal hypothermia. Shortly before death, the person will remove all their clothes, as if they were burning up, when in fact they are freezing."
Perhaps they just thought they were warm.... Eh Nigel? WE JUST DONT KNOW
Say it Nigel... Say after me...
MY THEORY ONLY WORKS IF THE GALAXY ALIGNS JUST RIGHT AND 300 UNKNOWNS ARE TWISTED INTO FACT. ALL FOR THE SAKE OF PRESERVING A NARRATIVE MY INTELLECTUALLY SUPERIOR ASS IS PUSHING.
Say it.... Show me that testicular fortitude.
Loose-Cannon
20-09-2017 04:26 (GMT)
The den...
Welp, to me it looks rather small.... Say 1.5m in British measurements. (Wink) . And the hole/shaft depicted in the photos was dug by the search team. They could have done as Nigel says and dug a cave type shelter from the side of an existing snow bank, but he gets all wonky wonky with the wild BL explosions that throws people meters through away but yet somehow leaves the den flooring of twigs and clothing fully in tact. I don't buy it...... I am very sceptical of the den to begin with..... If it was soo deeply buried, how did the search party know it was even there!?!? I don't buy the trail of clothing lead them to it.... It was buried... Under meters of snow. As in... They follow breadcrumbs that lead into a ravine and miraculously know the exact dead center place to dig? THATS AMAZING!!! I have read reports that the whole den thing was basically made up... Basically the searchers collected twigs the found chopped by the group, and their clothing, then dug a hole and said looky... this is what they must have done here!
The unfortunate fact is... You really cannot put too much into the den conundrum. Too many variables and not nearly enough information. Of course, that leaves an open door to conspiracy theorist that need to fill massive holes in their Swiss-cheese storyline of fictional fantasy.
Loose-Cannon
20-09-2017 04:06 (GMT)
"So why go up there? Why not head for the forest"
I told you already... Its common knowledge these hikers were on the trip in the first place to earn another merit badge, and digging in under extreme conditions on the side of a mountain was not only bragging rights, but would render Igor the talk of the club (and possibly the ladies (Zina).
Besides... Its also well known he was running behind getting bogged down in the deep snow of the lowlands. One trek up the backside of that ridge and they were home free skiing around the parameter of the mountain slop. NOT bogged down in the forest they died in.
Most of this stuff is just a matter of common sense Nigel... No conspiracy to document the elusive god particle with futuristic cameras need apply.
Loose-Cannon
20-09-2017 03:49 (GMT)
There ya go again Nigel.... Telling lies!!
For anyone not aware... Nigel found a web page article (BL god particle) where some asshat claims a reporter (city folk) came onto the ridge and noticed the snow was crusty on top (seen it a million times from the actions of the sun), so the author takes a well known picture from the tent location, circles an area in red, and claims it was a BL 'hot spot'!! Wow... Its like wow, but backwards!
Now every chance Nigel gets, he claims there was undoubtedly a 'hot spot' and speaks of it as if it were facts. What a freakin joke. Its the exact same thing with the bird story.... Rescue team caught their dinner turns into dead birds everywhere!! Same stupid article!!! Burnt tree tops and trunks..... Yup, same elaborate hoax stated somewhere obscure that Nigel preaches as fact only because he wants it so badly.
All rubbish, and he knows it.
Lyndasez
20-09-2017 01:12 (GMT)
@Nigel, "No notebooks of men were found by the rescue. There could be written some previous events or recording ongoing situation. These notebooks could have been destroyed immediately or removed.” (I like to add that there is a certain proof that Sakharova is accurate in this assumption. If one reads Vladimir Aslinadaze’s testimony which can be found here it is pretty obvious that at least Zolotaryov’s notebook was found at the scene. Askinadzi was present there, he is the one who actually found the last 4 bodies. – S.O.)?"
They dug down an found this?! They dug with what, a knife?!
Men don't keep diaries? Who were you quoting from in a previous post about the weather?! Besides I made no mention of diaries, I said the men's notebooks, KGB agents don't take notes?!
@KMM, Thanks, thought I was getting nuts there...been at it all day..
KMM
20-09-2017 00:41 (GMT)
It would of been a "red herring" operation by the kgb to feed false info. It was done before in the soviet union
Nigel Evans
20-09-2017 00:38 (GMT)
@KMM - "Better constructed then a few people freezing to death (in the grip of hypothermia) could accomplish " Bu they weren't, no frostbite on the rav4. Only the 2yuris show extensive FB. Something happening there no one's thought of yet. The 2yuris are an anomaly compared to the others.
KMM
20-09-2017 00:36 (GMT)
Lyndasez 20-09-2017 00:10 (GMT) KMM, Some of your posts are very amusing...can't tell, are you having fun with my logic?
I'm of the thinking that there was suppose to be a meeting between a kgb agent and western intelligence to transfer some radioactive clothing to the west.
Nigel Evans
20-09-2017 00:34 (GMT)
@Lyndasez - "Think like a hiker... if you are in the darkness, you leave a beacon behind to lead you back. You don't go out in the dead of night undressed an leave a unlit flashlight behind for potty purposes." Maybe that was it's purpose, to be the beacon. I'm just giving a reason for it being on the outside of the tent. Don't forget there were 9 people inside that tent sleeping, if each one needs to find the flashlight in the middle of the night that's 9 times through the night. Better to leave it outside in a nominated place?
"Well if it's a cave, what happened to the roof, and why are the 9ft walls perfectly chiseled?" Err they dug down a few metres to find the den? That's how they dug the walls?
"....and off the top of my head, Zinas pockets were turned out, seems to me someone was searching them...where are the men's notebooks? " Men don't keep diaries, it's a girlie thing.
KMM
20-09-2017 00:33 (GMT)
Nigel Evans 20-09-2017 00:26 (GMT) @KMM - knife/axe - a lot of the witness statements contradict each other, 50m or 500m etc etc. The den floor looks well constructed for a temporary shelter.
Better constructed then a few people freezing to death (in the grip of hypothermia) could accomplish
KMM
20-09-2017 00:27 (GMT)
NO, not at all Lyndasez
Nigel Evans
20-09-2017 00:26 (GMT)
@KMM - knife/axe - a lot of the witness statements contradict each other, 50m or 500m etc etc. The den floor looks well constructed for a temporary shelter.
Lyndasez
20-09-2017 00:10 (GMT)
KMM, Some of your posts are very amusing...can't tell, are you having fun with my logic?
KMM
19-09-2017 23:59 (GMT)
Maybe they were supposed to camp on the slope so the people they were suppose to meet could find them. (The ones holed up in the Den that then killed them.)
Lyndasez
19-09-2017 23:52 (GMT)
Nigel, "So why go up there? Why not head for the forest? "
Perhaps they got a gander at that backhoe style den and said...let's not camp on possibly secret or hostile turf!
Nigel, Think like a hiker... if you are in the darkness, you leave a beacon behind to lead you back. You don't go out in the dead of night undressed an leave a unlit flashlight behind for potty purposes.
"Got a feeling SZ wouldn't agree with you. Imo it has to be a snowcave not a more open structure, too cold and NTB's gloves were in his pocket and AK's jacket unzipped. They were fairly warm."
Well if it's a cave, what happened to the roof, and why are the 9ft walls perfectly chiseled?
....and off the top of my head, Zinas pockets were turned out, seems to me someone was searching them...where are the men's notebooks?
KMM
19-09-2017 23:19 (GMT)
knife is in official report.
Added when Ivanov was in a hurry to close the case !
Nigel Evans
19-09-2017 23:19 (GMT)
Just to drive this in :- "the last photos show they were in storm, high winds, whiteout conditions.
So why go up there? Why not head for the forest? "
They weren't lost, ID recorded in the diary the previous night his doubts as to this plan - "It is hard to imagine such a comfort somewhere on the ridge, with a piercing wind, hundreds kilometers away from human settlements"
It's really wierd, their plan was to go up in that weather and camp just under the ridge, not knowing how long the bad weather would last...
KMM
19-09-2017 23:16 (GMT)
Nigel: Imo it has to be a snowcave not a more open structure
When the snow began to fall off gradually and the scraps of clothes were revealed, the search engines once again surveyed the terrain 75 meters from Cedar - that ravine where the landslide had descended.
@KMM - knife is in official report. four seats is from the photograph of the den? RS is my guess.
KMM
19-09-2017 23:08 (GMT)
Nigel: Imo it has to be a snowcave not a more open structure
KEYWORD : IN MY OPINION ! more guessing by Nigel !
Nigel Evans
19-09-2017 23:05 (GMT)
the last photos show they were in storm, high winds, whiteout conditions.
So why go up there? Why not head for the forest?
KMM
19-09-2017 23:05 (GMT)
Nigel Evans 19-09-2017 21:30 (GMT) The official report says YK's knife was found nearby so they had a tool to cut the wood with which to dig into a snowbank.. The photo of the den suggests 4 seats and it maybe RS was there to. I'd say more like 7x7ft.
Where do you get this? from Ivanov's ramblings? About all reports I've read say all but the penknife was found in the tent.
Nigel Evans
19-09-2017 23:03 (GMT)
@Lyndasez - you mean the turned off flashlight on the tent? I've suggested that it could have been there as the "toilet flashlight" for trips in the night. Hence it was turned off. Might have moved/rolled with the wind flapping the tent perhaps.
Got a feeling SZ wouldn't agree with you. Imo it has to be a snowcave not a more open structure, too cold and NTB's gloves were in his pocket and AK's jacket unzipped. They were fairly warm.
Lyndasez
19-09-2017 22:59 (GMT)
@Anna, Nigel an some accounts said there was a storm...false???
" They didn't know how long the snowstorm would last, it could have been days... So this a key piece of the mystery imo."
Lyndasez
19-09-2017 22:42 (GMT)
Still doesn't answer...who turned off that flashlight? Had enough juice to light for the search party. And why panic if a light is hovering outside, may as well grab some shoes on the way out if you're done for!
That den was not dug by them...sorry, they may have fashioned a seat but that's all I'll give you..
Nigel Evans
19-09-2017 22:26 (GMT)
Anna/Lyndasez
N.B. "GLO" stands for "Globular Light-emitting Object", it's not immediately obvious and is a bit confusing.
Nigel Evans
19-09-2017 22:21 (GMT)
@Anna - there's differently types of BL, Hessdalen lights have been observed for 1 hour visible and several hours at radar wavelengths. The 2012 trip talk of it lasting 4 1/2 hours. It would be correct to say that all the other eye witness accounts from 1959 talk of DP lights of a few minutes. Please don't start comparing Siberian lights to those produced by thunderstorms.
@Lyndasez "Den looks like the product of a backhoe" some stout branches in that picture. Maybe WW2 vets know more about this than you or i.
they did this in a pitch dark storm!? not if there was an object as bright as the full moon up on the hill or a missing torch or maybe from the fire.
If this BL is the sort that hovers in place awaiting prey.. BL isn't sentient?
This is madness! Funnily enough the BL theory doesn't get everyone's vote....
Anna Yordanova
19-09-2017 22:08 (GMT)
Nigel , I have read that the life of a BL is only about 10 sec(the time for the ions to disperse on the ground).Do you think that all of what you are saying could happen in such a short period of time? I don`t understand why do you consider these glowing orbs to be BL, when first of all there are no factors ,indicating the appearance of them. No storm was reported in the area that night.
Lyndasez
19-09-2017 22:06 (GMT)
What in blue blazes!!! You think they fashioned shovels and built this?! http://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/Dyatlov-pass-the-den-01.jpg Den looks like the product of a backhoe, they did this in a pitch dark storm!? You can't be serious! If this BL is the sort that hovers in place awaiting prey...why not dress accordingly an crawl commando style to safety?! This is madness!
Nigel Evans
19-09-2017 21:30 (GMT)
The official report says YK's knife was found nearby so they had a tool to cut the wood with which to dig into a snowbank.. The photo of the den suggests 4 seats and it maybe RS was there to. I'd say more like 7x7ft.
"The key to all this is why'd they leave the tent orderly it seems without proper clothes...but have the presence of mind to leave a beacon back????? ", Ah that's the beauty of the BL theory. Fits all the facts here like a glove (almost).
They had to flee it hovering just outside at the hotspot. But once a little way away they could relax and walk for the forest to beat the windchill. Whilst the BL hovered at the tent they couldn't return. When it left they'd need a beacon to assist returning. When they got to the cedar it was still back there so they made a fire. Probably SZ disagreed with the fire and recommended a den as his WW2 experience. The BL moved down the hill and exploded in the ravine with enough force to throw the rav4 several metres and kill birds, maybe leaving RS injured. AK's autopsy is cause for concern here. The deformed neck (snapped) would fit the above but the pathologist never investigated it? ID, ZK and RS are only survivors, they tend to the injured stripping 2yuris and moving clothing from LD to SZ. BL now gone so ZK and RS try and return to tent for supplies but they're climbing into the microwaves and find it debilitating, RS collapses first, ZK puts his cap on the back of his head and continues but also expires. Later ID realises that they're not returning and tries to return but expires. N.B. RS and ID are not found in the classic foetal position of dying from cold.
The only bit that doesn't fit perfectly is what happened to the 2yuris, they have to die and be turned (stripped) sometme later after the lividity has frozen in. It would be nice to say the explosion threw them out of the tree onto the fire but the it doesn't suit the timeline, has to be something else earlier.
Lyndasez
19-09-2017 21:04 (GMT)
A simple fix if this was covert, to say, winter storm, some were sent out to look for shelter from the wind, didn't come back...they were struck by lighting, others froze searching... But Svetlana, who worked with Ivanov, I believe, said, his first instinct was murder till he saw the RAV4...whatever that means...
Lyndasez
19-09-2017 20:52 (GMT)
Nigel, ...and they come across a, what looks like a 9ft x 9ft den outfitted with a seat?! What are the odds of that? I don't believe the hikers built it, where's the shovel, would've been suicidal given their clothes. The key to all this is why'd they leave the tent orderly it seems without proper clothes...but have the presence of mind to leave a beacon back?????
Nigel Evans
19-09-2017 20:48 (GMT)
"Why not just own it?" Why not just keep quiet about it?
Nigel Evans
19-09-2017 20:41 (GMT)
"Who it to say those lights weren't secret military aircraft, missiles, comets..?? Are they harnessing BL now for some scientific reason? The KBG would've sent out experts to investigate...with REAL EQUIPMENT ...not just dinky cameras, come on.. "
All fair points but there are the facts, SZ attached to the group even he had nothing to do with the university, they went up to the ridge in a snowstorm even though ID records in the diary the previous night he has concerns. So what was going on? Why on earth would any group of experienced skiers elect to spend the night above the treeline is those conditions instead of staying with the planned route? They didn't know how long the snowstorm would last, it could have been days... So this a key piece of the mystery imo.
Lyndasez
19-09-2017 20:24 (GMT)
PLUS, If if what you theorize is true. Why not just own it? Say we sent a agent out with these kids to explore BL and they got hit with it...case closed..
Lyndasez
19-09-2017 20:14 (GMT)
They veered off course..says you, because this KGB guy amongst them knew the coordinates of lighting!
Who it to say those lights weren't secret military aircraft, missiles, comets..?? Are they harnessing BL now for some scientific reason? The KBG would've sent out experts to investigate...with REAL EQUIPMENT ...not just dinky cameras, come on..
@LC - perhaps better as "strontium-90, carbon-14, tritium, and sulfur-35" are dug out of the ground?
Lyndasez
19-09-2017 19:53 (GMT)
Dozens of sites say so, google it!
"On February 1, a snowstorm moved in, and the group lost their way -- instead of maintaining their heading toward Dyatlov Pass, they veered west, toward the peak of Kholat Syakhi. At some point they realized their mistake, but instead of retracing their path, they chose to camp on the mountainside and wait out the storm."
Nigel Evans
19-09-2017 19:44 (GMT)
@LC - uranium is dug out the ground yes?
@Lyndasez - err, yes but the authorities knew where it was? Who says they veered off course?
You guys keep dissing the BL theory but all i hear from you is nonsense about thyroids and hangars that almost certainly weren't built in 1959....
Lyndasez
19-09-2017 19:36 (GMT)
Built in the 40's "Codenamed City 40, Ozersk was the birthplace of the Soviet nuclear weapons programme after the second world war. For decades, this city of 100,000 people did not appear on any maps, and its inhabitants’ identities were erased from the Soviet census." @Nigel, This place didn't appear on maps, plus they veered off approved course...
Loose-Cannon
19-09-2017 19:36 (GMT)
You think many times higher is something you drink out of snow run-off?
Nigel Evans
19-09-2017 19:34 (GMT)
@LC - "Have you seen the boulder she was straggling" Probably thrown on it by an explosion....
Nigel Evans
19-09-2017 19:32 (GMT)
@LC - "The clothing was not just radiated from natural sources. " Err uranium comes from natural sources?
Loose-Cannon
19-09-2017 19:23 (GMT)
Whats the point Nigel?
Lemme guess... To you, 'throw' is 100% fact she was blown up by a fireball. Am I right!?!
500euros say I can toss your butt into that ditch and onto the boulders at the bottom..... Lets do this...
Whatever you do... Ignore the part about impact force... Fall.... HELLO MCFLY! HELLO..... Have you seen the boulder she was straggling?
Loose-Cannon
19-09-2017 19:12 (GMT)
The thyroid gland holds radiation levels 200 times higher then other organs... Its THE organ to test if testing for radiation exposure. It either wasn't tested, or the results were hidden. Pretty significant imho.
But my main point is.... You said I was wrong, when in fact.... YOUR stupid book was wrong, and you along with it. You need to burn that blasted thing!!!
'MANY TIMES HIGHER PRIOR TO BEING WASHED'.... The clothing was not just radiated from natural sources.
Nigel Evans
19-09-2017 19:05 (GMT)
@Lyndasez - well i'm excluding it because they wouldn't have been given permission for the route if it had been there.
Nigel Evans
19-09-2017 19:00 (GMT)
Statements from LD's autopsy :-
The position of the internal organs is regular, the pleural cavities contain up to one and a half litres of liquid dark blood.
and
Based on the forensic examination of the corpse of Ms. L.A. Dubinina I think that the death of Ms. Dubinina was caused by massive haemorrhage into the right ventricle, multiple bilateral rib fractures, and internal bleeding into the thoracic cavity. The said damage was probably caused by an impact of great force causing severe closed lethal trauma to the chest of Ms. Dubinina. The trauma was caused during life and is the result of high force impact with subsequent fall, throw or bruise to the chest of Ms. Dubinina.
Oss, Svetlana. Don't Go There: Post Mortem (p. 215). LiberWriter.com. Kindle Edition.
Nigel Evans
19-09-2017 18:57 (GMT)
Statements from SZ's autopsy :-
The pleural cavities contained up to one litre of liquid dark blood.
and
Based on the examination of the corpse of Mr. Zolotaryov, 37 years old, I think that he died due to multiple fractures of the right ribs with internal haemorrhaging to the pleural cavity while at a low temperature. The above-mentioned multiple fractures of Zolotariev’s ribs with haemorrhaging into the pleural cavity were caused in vivo as an effect of a high-power impact to the chest of Zolotariev at the moment of his fall, squeezing or throwing.
Oss, Svetlana. Don't Go There: Post Mortem (p. 215). LiberWriter.com. Kindle Edition.
in vivo means whilst alive. He died from internal bleeding together with the cold
Sandy
19-09-2017 18:48 (GMT)
@LC - You stated Igor had "Charles Manson's eyes".
No, he doesn't. I've read a lot about Charlie over the years & this laughing innocent boy, esp. with the snow on his face, looks nothing like Manson. Not sure how you came up with that one but rest assured.......no one has eyes like Charlie but Charlie. There is nothing evil looking about Igor. Just more of your b.s.......
Sandy
19-09-2017 18:39 (GMT)
As I understood it there was no bruising (bleeding) caused by the horrific crushed chest, otherwise he died from it, which is it, since there's ...ahem, no coverup, he died from freezing or crushed chest?
He died from the crushed chest. The last 4 died from their massive injuries caused by homicide.
Lyndasez
19-09-2017 18:37 (GMT)
@Anna, Igor, I assume left his flashlight atop the tent, as beacon back to the tent. Someone, turned it off, as it still had power when the search party came upon it. So, either there was a nut job amongst them or they had company...??
Sandy
19-09-2017 18:30 (GMT)
I do believe there was plenty among the group to squabble over. From the numerous diary entries I post a while back to the indications I see Zina being a big tease and likely leading Igor on..... to top it all off she brought here 'ex lover' Yuri along for the trip. I think she was still fairly close to Yuri and getting the same string-along as Igor. There are loads of prior DPI photos of Zina and Yuri on previous hikes etc. From what I understand, Yuri was the only boy she ever brought home to meet her parents. Written by LC
@L.C. I find this offensive as there is nothing written about her being a tease. Yuri was NOT her "ex lover". Zina was still a virgin as well as Luda. Zina wrote in her diary that Yuri had been "holding hands with a girl from the other group" & how she felt jealous. Zina had nothing to do with Yuri wanting to come along. She wrote in her diary she wasn't sure how she'd feel. Zina still had feelings for Yuri. So she wasn't "stringing him along at all".
She like the attention of boys.... if ya know what Im sayin. No, LC, I don't know wtf you're trying to say.
I disagree with this & find it offensive to Zina as well. There is no truth in this. Her & Yuri went out a few times & he quit seeing her. She was a virgin as I stated b/4. She was irritated with Igor because he made her sleep next to the stove the nite b/4. Perhaps it was her turn.
Lyndasez
19-09-2017 18:15 (GMT)
"And what if they have diverged from the course, due to poor visibility and came across the bunker by accident?"
Anna, this is certainly littered with possibilities. Given that the Kyshtym Accident, a nuclear incident happened in Sept '57 in southern Urals an no one knew it till the '80s.
I've read the notebooks for the men are missing, or sewn up in a Top Secret file, so I think they are hiding many things.
Lyndasez
19-09-2017 18:01 (GMT)
I'm not assuming when it was built, I'm just not excluding it from the realm of possibilities.
You assume reports of lights are ball-lightning how is what I do different?
Anna Yordanova
19-09-2017 17:55 (GMT)
I meant possible
Anna Yordanova
19-09-2017 17:54 (GMT)
And what if they have diverged from the course, due to poor visibility and came across the bunker by accident?Maybe that's why the military were interested why the hikers have been there and shut the area for the next three years. To me that seems very posdie.
Nigel Evans
19-09-2017 17:19 (GMT)
@Lyndasez - you keep assuming it was built before the DPI? This is very unlikely as the state wouldn't have given permission for the trip?
Lyndasez
19-09-2017 15:32 (GMT)
" Hmmm time to blow it off again! "
I think not, it can be seen from satellite, would've been huge to the hikers. We're they supposed to go off course? I'm sure they gave a map of their expedition for approval. Everything is up for supposition in this saga. You think they're gonna register schematics of this bunker?!
Nigel Evans
19-09-2017 15:13 (GMT)
@Lyndasez - yes the existence of the building has already been discussed as has that the date of it's construction is key to it's consideration. The group could only progress with their trip by seeking permission. I can't see how it would be granted if there was a secret establishment nearby. It's a red herring. "A paranormal researcher believes it was testing neutron weapons". Hmmm time to blow it off again!
Lyndasez
19-09-2017 15:02 (GMT)
"what's your source for that info about the bunker?"
I posted this a couple of days ago. You blew it off as being previously covered......
A mysterious object was discovered near the site, where hikers died when trying to cross the Dyatlov Pass. Amateur radio engineer and researcher of paranormal phenomena Valentin Degtyarev believes that the structure that was found on the site may have a connection with the tragedy that took place there in the winter of 1959. It goes about a construction 25-30 meters long and 10-15 meters wide. The construction was found at a distance of ten kilometers from the site, when a group of hikers died in 1959. The construction, Degtyarev believes, could be a part of a bunker that had been built in the Ural mountains during the times of the Cold War. The researcher assumes that the group of hikers could find themselves on the pass the day when neutron weapons were tested. This may explain the presence of radioactive substances on the clothes of one of the victims. The death of the hikers could be a reason, for which the tests were wrapped up. The underground building was blown up and mothballed. The upper part of the bunker is still visible on satellite images. The Dyatlov Pass is considered to be one of the most mysterious areas of hiker routes in the Urals. In February 1959, nine skiers of a hiker club were killed near Mount Otorten under unclear circumstances. Igor Dyatlov was the leader of the group. The bodies that were subsequently found on the site shocked forensic experts: most of the people froze to death, whereas traces on the bodies of other victims indicated that they had died violent deaths. The pass was named in memory of the hiker group led by Igor Dyatlov. Some researchers believe that the hikers died as a result of an explosion of a ballistic missile. According to ex-governor of the Sverdlovsk region, Senator Eduard Rossel, the tragedy on the Dyatlov Pass still remains strictly classified information. Pravda.Ru 08.14.2017
Lyndasez
19-09-2017 14:58 (GMT)
"I've discounted the radiation as a not productive avenue for consideration."
This is interesting given your Phd in physics or was that the Wolfeman?!
Nigel Evans
19-09-2017 14:55 (GMT)
@Lyndasez - what's your source for that info about the bunker?
Lyndasez
19-09-2017 14:41 (GMT)
"agreed the clothing indicates much higher levels of contamination but where did it come from?"
@Nigel, quite possibly from the underground bunker (neutron bomb testing) they recently found, mothballed, but was active in the 50s. It was 6 miles from their campsite or..YK brought some of his work home with him..on clothes...working with plutonium.
Nigel Evans
19-09-2017 14:32 (GMT)
@Lyndasez - agreed the clothing indicates much higher levels of contamination but where did it come from? Yudin was a geologist collecting rocks, the area had uranium deposits so could just be accidental contamination from dust or even from the stream. Given that none of this clothing contamination seems to have affected the tested tissues then the chances that testing the thyroid would show anything different is an extreme longshot imo. I've discounted the radiation as a not productive avenue for consideration.
Lyndasez
19-09-2017 14:22 (GMT)
"Err what's your point here, the findings are that the tiisue samples are normal? Clothing is inflated."
@Nigel, I 'think,' LCs complaint is, they didn't test the thyroid gland, and come on, that contamination on the clothes is whoa high after washing!
Lyndasez
19-09-2017 14:10 (GMT)
@Anna, "Woodpecker," was a short wave radio signal Russia emitted in the 70s and thought to be 'mind control,' device. So, possibly they later gave Igor this moniker because he was a radio enthusiast?
Nigel Evans
19-09-2017 14:00 (GMT)
@Anna - well woodpeckers aside, there's no cause to mis translate the dates. So the question would be what does the original text say? If that says 1st feb also then imo the article has to be discounted as incorrect. Could be bad journalism, could even be Ivanov, unless hibinaud is to be challenged?
Anna Yordanova
19-09-2017 13:51 (GMT)
The translation is beyond joke Nigel. Woodpecker? What the heck! Dyatlov! Not Woodpecker.
On February 17, I and Vladimir Shevkunov got up at 6.00 in the morning to prepare breakfast for the group. After splitting the fire and making everything necessary, they waited for the food to be ready. The sky was cloudy, there were no clouds and no clouds, but there was a slight haze, which usually dissipates with the rising of the sun. Sitting face to the north and accidentally turning his head to the east, he saw that a milky white blur about 5-6 lunar in diameter and a series of concentric circles consisting of a row of them had spread in the sky at a height (...?). It resembled a halo around the moon in a clear frosty weather. I made a comment to my partner, that's how they painted the moon. He thought and said that in the first moon there is no, and besides, it should be on the other side. From the moment we noticed this phenomenon took 1-2 minutes, how long it lasted before
Sheet 212
and how did I initially do not know. At this moment, at the very center of this spot, an asterisk flared up, which for a few seconds remained the same size, and then began to increase sharply in size and rapidly move in a western direction. Within a few seconds, she grew to the size of the moon, and then tearing off the smoke screen or clouds appeared a huge milk disc of milky color, 2-2.5 lunar in diameter, surrounded by the same rings of pale color. Then, remaining the same size, the ball began to fade until it merged with the surrounding halo, which in turn spread out across the sky and went out. It was dawn. The clock was 6.57, the phenomenon lasted no more than a half minutes and produced a very uneasy impression. Initially, we did not pay attention to it, but then, when the glowing disk itself appeared, they were amazed. Personally, I had the impression that some heavenly body was falling in our direction, then, when it had grown to such enormous dimensions, a thought flashed through, another planet came into contact with the earth, that now a collision would follow and nothing would remain of all earthly things. We were already awake for more than an hour, so we could retire after sleeping and not believe in hallucinations, but in the end everything was as hypnotized and only when
(illegible)
Nigel Evans
19-09-2017 11:40 (GMT)
@LC - the last post wrt this statement :- "THIS PARAGRAPH IS THE SUMMARY OF THE FINDINGS ON THE CLOTHING ONLY!!!!
THE SUMMARY OF THE TISSUE SAMPLES ARE AFTER THE READINGS ON THEM, AND IT STATES NO SUCH NONSENSE!"
Nigel Evans
19-09-2017 11:39 (GMT)
@LC - "CONCLUSIONS: 1) The solid biosubstrates studied contain radioactive substances within the natural content determined by Kali-40. 2) The individual samples of clothing examined contain several inflated quantities of radioactive substances or radioactive material, which is a beta emitter. 3) Detected radioactive substances or radioactive substances when washing clothing samples tend to flush, i.e. are caused not by a neutron flux and induced radioactivity, but by radioactive contamination with beta particles. Chief radiologist of the city of Levashov 27.05.1959 (Signed)" "
Err what's your point here, the findings are that the tiisue samples are normal? Clothing is inflated.
KMM
19-09-2017 05:56 (GMT)
Every site says something different. TOO much conflicting information,
I guess since you cant take a picture of it.... may as well leave it out of the investigation ENTIRELY!!
Lyndasez
18-09-2017 16:07 (GMT)
"Not sure black and white photography would have been much use. Could have been a practical issue, bad weather, then fell through the cracks" Nothing fell through the cracks unless Ivanov wanted it to #1. #2, Burn marks on live wood trunks would be visible for a very long time. Your excuse is ridiculous at best. Black/white photography wont work....... gimme a freakin break, WEAK! "
@Loose Cannon, I agree, the naivety Nigel labors under is puzzling to say the least. Black n white photos are of no use, neither are rulers, how bout a pic of the burn with a ruler beside it?! Measurements, photos, any visual that can aid in proving a theory is critical!
Loose-Cannon
18-09-2017 15:17 (GMT)
READ THE DAMN CASE FILE!
The statement regarding.....
"The absence of appropriate instruments and conditions in the laboratory made it impossible to perform radiochemical and spectrometric analysis to determine the chemical structure of the emitter and its radiation energy."
Is taken from this paragraph in its entirety...
"Experimental washing of clothes showed that the contamination is removed, the percentage of washing varies from 30% to 60% (washing clothes was done in running cold water for 3 hours). When determining the type of radiation, it is established that the activity takes place due to beta particles. Alpha particles and gamma quanta were not detected. The absence of appropriate instruments and conditions in the laboratory made it impossible to perform radiochemical and spectrometric analysis to determine the chemical structure of the emitter and its radiation energy. Radiometric measurements of solid biosubstrates were carried out on a B-2 installation (No. 2554) in a lead house with a BFA-25 meter. The unit was measured using a strontium preparation with an activity of 1) 7000 rpm, 2) 2000 rpm. The results of measurements of samples from No. 1,2,3,4 are summarized in Table No. 1 (see on the back)"
THIS PARAGRAPH IS THE SUMMARY OF THE FINDINGS ON THE CLOTHING ONLY!!!!
THE SUMMARY OF THE TISSUE SAMPLES ARE AFTER THE READINGS ON THEM, AND IT STATES NO SUCH NONSENSE!
" Control samples were obtained from the forensic medical expert of Dr. Renaissance. The samples of the tissues of a person who died in the accident of a motor vehicle in the city of Sverdlovsk, also showed the presence of a natural radiological element of potassium-40 in approximately the same amounts as in Table 1.
Thus, the results of the studies in Tables 1 and 3 do not exceed the averaged data on the content of radioactive substances in human organs and may be due to
natural radioactive Potassium-40. Radiation by type refers to the Beta- particles. Alpha particles and gamma quanta were not detected. CONCLUSIONS: 1) The solid biosubstrates studied contain radioactive substances within the natural content determined by Kali-40. 2) The individual samples of clothing examined contain several inflated quantities of radioactive substances or radioactive material, which is a beta emitter. 3) Detected radioactive substances or radioactive substances when washing clothing samples tend to flush, i.e. are caused not by a neutron flux and induced radioactivity, but by radioactive contamination with beta particles. Chief radiologist of the city of Levashov 27.05.1959 (Signed)"
Loose-Cannon
18-09-2017 15:09 (GMT)
Laff... what am I wrong about? I posted a link to the ACTUAL RECORD that shows clearly the organs tested, and the results. I posted it because you specifically stated .... "The pathologist took tissue samples for further analysis but i don't know of any radiation testing."
Here is THE ACTUAL CASE FILE!!!! and I dont give a rats ass who ordered it. As you can see... your book grossly reworded it! .
So they didnt do a radio'chemical' test to determine the chemical structure of the emitter.... so what! It was beta and measured.
Nigel Evans
18-09-2017 14:38 (GMT)
@LC - lots of stuff there to answer, i'll come back later on might even be tomorrow. You're wrong about the radiation tests :- Under the orders of Investigator Ivanov, an examination was made of the clothes of some expedition members, in order to determine if there was any radioactive contamination on the clothes or the dead bodies. To order a radiological examination was by no means a regular part of the investigative process. The examination was conducted on May 18, in a poorly equipped city laboratory, almost ten days after the last funeral. Vladimir Levashov, the main radiologist of Yekaterinburg, conducted the examination. Levashov’s report reads: ‘The absence of adequate equipment and the conditions in our laboratory did not allow us to conduct radiochemical and spectrometric analysis for defining the chemical structure of the emitter and measuring the energy of its emission.’ It’s possible that in May, Ivanov received some information or an order to conduct this examination. It’s also possible this was done on his own initiative. If it had been ordered from above, the examination would have taken place in the best possible laboratory, which, at that time in the USSR, would have been in a military institution. As it was, Ivanov contacted the rescue party member Albert Kikoin whose brother, Isaak Kikoin, was in charge of a national laboratory for studying radiation. Levashov was warned that this investigation was to be a matter of secrecy and he signed a document to confirm he wouldn’t release the information to anyone but the investigator. He was provided with all the clothes of Zolotaryov, Dubinina, Kolevatov, and Tibeaux, as well as bio-culture samples of their bodies.
Oss, Svetlana. Don't Go There: Post Mortem (p. 103). LiberWriter.com. Kindle Edition.
Nigel Evans
18-09-2017 14:33 (GMT)
@Lyndasez - "As I understood it there was no bruising (bleeding) caused by the horrific crushed chest, otherwise he died from it, which is it, since there's ...ahem, no coverup, he died from freezing or crushed chest?" Yes there wasn't any bruising but there was internal bleeding. When you go to a restaurant and order ribs, you're getting the tissue surrounding the actual bone to eat. When the rib cage suffers a massive fracture as in these injuries then that tissue is ripped and bleeds whilst the heart continues to beat. So a pathologist is trained to look at how extensive the trauma is and collect the volume of blood and estimate the how long the bleeding was before the person died and it stopped. From memory one of them had a litre of bleeding which takes a while.
"They didn't wait because parents and other students and interested parties were gonna conduct their own search! Too bad they didn't!" Well first they wouldn't be going anywhere without state permission and even if they did get it (which they wouldn't because the state had concerns about defection), for a prolonged investigation they would need a supply chain. Pretty expensive business definately best left to the resources of the state.
Lyndasez
18-09-2017 14:05 (GMT)
@Nigel "But if they wanted to hide the cause of death, why not wait until the summer? They'd come back to find just skeletons spread all over the mountain by predators. What are they going to measure that isn't known?"
They didn't wait because parents and other students and interested parties were gonna conduct their own search! Too bad they didn't! How bout depth of snow, tent, distances, evidence found near bodies, cuts on ski poles, cuts on tent before they added to them...let's not get into lack of photos...forget it, the Donner party was better documented!
These clothing articles were glow-in-the-dark radiated prior to being washed in the creek. Makes you wonder why the first 5 were not tested. Or were they and the results were hidden..... Its also interesting to note the helicopter crew refused to fly out the bodies of the rav4 until proper radiation protective body bags were obtained. The rav4 bodies were not tested as of yet, so how on earth would they have reason to suspect radiation???
Oh to be sure there was fighting goin on, both ladies make mention of it in diaries. That “unknown compelling force," was themselves...something worked them pretty good.
Question #4. What do you think, what could be the degree of contamination of individual objects, if you take into account that prior to research they had been in the running water for about 15 days.
Answer: It can be assumed that the contamination of individual garments was many times greater, but here one must take into account that clothes could be washed unevenly, that is, with varying degrees of intensity."
THEY WERE IN THE STREAM A LOT LONGER THEN 15 DAYS..... You do the math.
Lyndasez
18-09-2017 13:29 (GMT)
@Nigel,
"Because the pathologist would have spotted the lack of internal bleeding with the two chest fractures (unless he's lying as per coverup)."
As I understood it there was no bruising (bleeding) caused by the horrific crushed chest, otherwise he died from it, which is it, since there's ...ahem, no coverup, he died from freezing or crushed chest?
Loose-Cannon
18-09-2017 13:24 (GMT)
"You would have to produce facts for this claim." I am not surprised you are not paying attention....
"I'm not aware of this, they had a vat of alcohol for the staff to wash with." Someone refuses to read the autopsy reports and the sworn testimonies.
"Probably assumed freezing." Show me another case or study stating THREE TIMES THE SIZE is normal.
"The radiation testing was done privately by a friend on his own initiative EVEN though he had been ordered to wrap up the case.... Afaik it was only on the clothing. The pathologist took tissue samples for further analysis but i don't know of any radiation testing." There is a lot you are not aware of.... to busy with head up ones own ass i would presume. https://sites.google.com/site/hibinaud/home/zaklucenie-eksperta
"Nothing wrong in "Missing presumed dead", interesting that she wouldn't sign(" Unless of course your the head of an investigation regarding 4 missing people. How does he know they are dead? Alot of presuming if you ask me. FYI, there were TWO other signatures required on that document other then Ivanovs..... Neither would sign off on it!
"Not sure black and white photography would have been much use. Could have been a practical issue, bad weather, then fell through the cracks" Nothing fell through the cracks unless Ivanov wanted it to #1. #2, Burn marks on live wood trunks would be visible for a very long time. Your excuse is ridiculous at best. Black/white photography wont work....... gimme a freakin break, WEAK!
"My guess is that they did take them and they've been lost." Yeah yeah.... lost... thats it. Ivanov must have lost them! Add that to the list then...... I call BS
"Once they had the bodies it was wrapped up as it was costing a fortune." I guess thats why it was closed to the public for 3 years.... right nigel... Tell me, today in London if they were to find 4 mutilated bodies.... would the case be closed the same day? Unbelievable
"Not an easy one to solve" Not for anyone that came afterwards.... you know why?... IVANOV .
Nigel, you displayed a rather weak and pathetic set of excuses, and you know what they say about excuses. Its somewhat concerning watching you twist truths and invent others.
Nigel Evans
18-09-2017 10:34 (GMT)
#1 He was reported to be 'out of it' and otherwise not interested while on site. Maybe he had drunk a bit too much vodka.
#2 Lack of investigation photos etc Probably the fault of the other guy.
#3 He arrived at the tent AFTER it had beed fubared by in-computation college kids, made an on-the-record report of its state with spicifics, then says that another investigator was there before him so go ask him, the other guys account is very different. You would have to produce facts for this claim.
#4 He spent all but 5min at each site. Apparently he didn't visit the site when the rav4 were found which i've remarked upon. But this could have been a hiearchy thing, he had a team of men there full time so they would do the footwork. Don't forget that Ivanov was ordered to Moscow during this investigation and came back "a changed man" there was good reason for him to be fearful for his future if it was a state coverup. I'm not saying it was of course but he would be watching his back pretty hard.
#5 The rav4 bodies were thoroughly washed with chemicals to hide something I'm not aware of this, they had a vat of alcohol for the staff to wash with.
#6 The Aortas were measured, but he never investigated as to why 3 times larger then normal Probably assumed freezing.
#7 Nearly every organ of the Rav4 were tested for radiation levels except THE ONE ORGAN that hold the highest concentration.... the thyroid. 200% higher concentration and this isnt 'new' information. He either covered up the results OR he purposely excluded them from the official order. They tested what he asked them to test.... nothing more. The radiation testing was done privately by a friend on his own initiative EVEN though he had been ordered to wrap up the case.... Afaik it was only on the clothing. The pathologist took tissue samples for further analysis but i don't know of any radiation testing.
#8 He has been all over the map as to who, what, and why..... wonky at best. Rolls eyes.
#9 The forensic expert and criminalist expert Churkina refused to sign off on the official autopsy, but Ivanov signed..... AS OF TODAY THE AUTOPSY REPORTS ON RAV4 ARE INVALID!. ALL THREE WERE SUPPOSED TO SIGN!! IVANOV WAS NOT INTERESTED IN THE EXPERTS OPINION AND THE TWO EXPERTS REFUSED TO PUT THEIR NAME ON A BOTCHED REPORT! https://image.ibb.co/dFTBya/sme.jpg #10 Ivanov made an official report that all 9 hikers had died..... BEFORE THE RAV4 were found!!!! Nothing wrong in "Missing presumed dead", interesting that she wouldn't sign, S Oss states that she thought the head pathologist was "afraid".
#11 In 1990 he wrote an article stating that trees had burn marks.... yet THERE HAS NEVER AND WILL NEVER BE ANYTHING ABOUT THAT DOCUMENTED IN THE OFFICIAL REPORTS AND NOTHING OF THE SORT WAS EVER DOCUMENTED>>>>>> GE EITHER BOTCHED THE INVESTIGATION IN 1959, OR HE IS A FREAKING LIAR.... TAKE YOUR PICK. Not sure black and white photography would have been much use. Could have been a practical issue, bad weather, then fell through the cracks.
#12 HE ORDERED A TEAM TO DIG OUT THE TENT AND ITS CONTENTS WITH AN AXE AND SHOVELS AND THEN DRAG THE TENT OVER ROCKS AND ICE TO THE HELICOPTER.... WITHOUT A SINGLE PHOTO BEING TAKEN OF ITS CONTENTS OR THE LAYOUT AND CONDITION PRIOR TO REMOVAL....... ID LIKE TO POP THIS IDIOT IN THE DING-DONG! There is one photograph of the tent prior to removal which begs the question why not more? My guess is that they did take them and they've been lost.
#13 He closed the case PREMATURELY! Once they had the bodies it was wrapped up as it was costing a fortune.
#14 He didnt solve the case. Not an easy one to solve...
Lightning
18-09-2017 08:46 (GMT)
Loose Cannon- you mad bro because trump didn't build the wall?
Loose-Cannon
18-09-2017 04:35 (GMT)
@Lyndasez .
I do believe there was plenty among the group to squabble over. From the numerous diary entries I post a while back to the indications I see Zina being a big tease and likely leading Igor on..... to top it all off she brought here 'ex lover' Yuri along for the trip. I think she was still fairly close to Yuri and getting the same string-along as Igor. There are loads of prior DPI photos of Zina and Yuri on previous hikes etc. From what I understand, Yuri was the only boy she ever brought home to meet her parents.
I would also expect in the 1950s for this skimpy dipping in front of the boys to be pretty damn risque. An event like this likely got around among the boys.... Pretty sure thats not a 1950s bikini. http://image.ibb.co/fBmxR5/0_8d2b1_5263cc95_XL.jpg
Loose-Cannon
18-09-2017 01:47 (GMT)
An interesting picture I doubt many have seen. Looks to be a main grouping of prints and then a smaller grouping of '2' a little further out.
Nigel... here are the conditions the morning of on the backside of the ridge. Weather must have changed on them pretty rapidly!!. http://image.ibb.co/b8ioG5/les.jpg .
"The media acts in all bodies, regardless of their position (many found face down on the side) Vozrozhdenniy corpse spots found on the back surface of the torso neck and limbs .
From the act of examination of corpses. Cadaveric spots.
Doroshenko Yuri - purple-purple disposed on the rear surface of torso and neck limbs . Kolevatov Alexander - crimson-purple richly arranged on the rear right side of the trunk and the extremities . Krivonischenko Georgiy - purple-lilac color, located on the back of the neck of the body and of course first. Dyatlov Igor - bluish-red colors are located on the rear surface of the body of the neck and limbs . Slobodin Rustem - bluish-red color abundantly located on the back of the neck and the torso and limbs . Dubinin Ludmila - bluish-gray c / pveta disposed abundantly on the rear and side surfaces of the neck, trunk and extremities . Kolmogorov Zynaida - bluish-purple disposed on the rear surface of the trunk . Zolotarev Semen - purplish-gray color, abundantly located on the back of the neck, trunk and extremities . Tibo Nikolay - purple-green color located on the rear-side surfaces of the thorax, neck and limbs.
What does it mean? Why Vozrozhdenniy in all acts of the MEA wrote the same location of the spots on the cadaver of dead bodies, regardless of the positions, in which they were found? Perhaps, on the bodies it was not simple cadaveric spots, but is written in the JMO could not. The reason for the lack of cadaveric spots on the bodies of the dead might be bleeding of internal organs or blood clotting due to strong radiation.
All these facts are contrary to the media the conclusion that the death of the children was caused by hypothermia and point to signs of poisoning or strong exposure."
Loose-Cannon
18-09-2017 01:18 (GMT)
"After contact with the exposed parts of the body and the respiratory system of radioactive particles of iodine 131 radiation causes severe radiation burns to the skin, the respiratory system and blood, but more likely to suffer with the thyroid gland , which accumulates to 90% of the radioactive substances!
I want to draw your attention to another important fact - the description of the media acts very important body, which from the effects of radioactive iodine (131J) suffers in the first place - the thyroid gland .
In the first group of hikers, whose bodies were discovered in the early days of search operations:
Dyatlov Igor - "... The horns of the hyoid bone intact. The thyroid gland is at the cut fleshy red ...
Kolmogorova Zinaida - "... The hyoid bone is intact. The thyroid gland in the section bluish-red color ... "
Slobodin Rustem - "... The horns of the hyoid bone intact. The thyroid gland is the cut of red ... "
Doroshenko Yury - "... The horns of the hyoid bone intact. The thyroid gland in the fleshy section, reddish ... "
Krivonischenko Georgiy - "... The thyroid gland in the fleshy section, dark-red color. The horns of the hyoid bone intact ... "
The second group of hikers, whose bodies were found in a ravine in the creek, under a 3-meter layer of snow ex.
Kolevatov Alexander - a description of the thyroid gland in the media there is no "... The neck is long, thin, deformed in the area of the thyroid cartilage ...."
Dubinina Lyudmila - description of the thyroid gland in the media there is no "... The neck is long, thin. Soft neck tissue flabby to the touch. When the feeling is determined by the neck unusual mobility of the horns of the hyoid bone and thyroid cartilage . ... "
Zolotarev Semen - a description of the thyroid gland in the media there is no "... The hyoid bone is intact. ... "
Tibo Nikolay - a description of the thyroid gland in the media there is no "... The hyoid bone is intact. ... "
Iodine-like substance, extremely selectively deposited in the thyroid. After hitting 131J in the human body, the radioactivity of thyroid radioactivity may exceed all other tissues of more than 200 times!"
Loose-Cannon
18-09-2017 00:32 (GMT)
#1 He was reported to be 'out of it' and otherwise not interested while on site.
#2 Lack of investigation photos etc
#3 He arrived at the tent AFTER it had beed fubared by in-computation college kids, made an on-the-record report of its state with spicifics, then says that another investigator was there before him so go ask him, the other guys account is very different.
#4 He spent all but 5min at each site.
#5 The rav4 bodies were thoroughly washed with chemicals to hide something
#6 The Aortas were measured, but he never investigated as to why 3 times larger then normal
#7 Nearly every organ of the Rav4 were tested for radiation levels except THE ONE ORGAN that hold the highest concentration.... the thyroid. 200% higher concentration and this isnt 'new' information. He either covered up the results OR he purposely excluded them from the official order. They tested what he asked them to test.... nothing more.
#8 He has been all over the map as to who, what, and why..... wonky at best.
#9 The forensic expert and criminalist expert Churkina refused to sign off on the official autopsy, but Ivanov signed..... AS OF TODAY THE AUTOPSY REPORTS ON RAV4 ARE INVALID!. ALL THREE WERE SUPPOSED TO SIGN!! IVANOV WAS NOT INTERESTED IN THE EXPERTS OPINION AND THE TWO EXPERTS REFUSED TO PUT THEIR NAME ON A BOTCHED REPORT! https://image.ibb.co/dFTBya/sme.jpg
#10 Ivanov made an official report that all 9 hikers had died..... BEFORE THE RAV4 were found!!!!
#11 In 1990 he wrote an article stating that trees had burn marks.... yet THERE HAS NEVER AND WILL NEVER BE ANYTHING ABOUT THAT DOCUMENTED IN THE OFFICIAL REPORTS AND NOTHING OF THE SORT WAS EVER DOCUMENTED>>>>>> GE EITHER BOTCHED THE INVESTIGATION IN 1959, OR HE IS A FREAKING LIAR.... TAKE YOUR PICK.
#12 HE ORDERED A TEAM TO DIG OUT THE TENT AND ITS CONTENTS WITH AN AXE AND SHOVELS AND THEN DRAG THE TENT OVER ROCKS AND ICE TO THE HELICOPTER.... WITHOUT A SINGLE PHOTO BEING TAKEN OF ITS CONTENTS OR THE LAYOUT AND CONDITION PRIOR TO REMOVAL....... ID LIKE TO POP THIS IDIOT IN THE DING-DONG!
#13 He closed the case PREMATURELY!
#14 He didnt solve the case.
Thats off the top of my head and I am SURE there are other!......... Your daddy was a full blown IDIOT or, he intentionally botched, covered, mislead, and otherwise created wild goose chases.
Loose-Cannon
17-09-2017 23:50 (GMT)
And you never hear me talk about Rustems cracked skull because of the freeze expansion possibility.
Loose-Cannon
17-09-2017 23:38 (GMT)
Inhalation of poisonous chems like methanol and radiation poisoning..... Or both
The entire body holds alot of water, but yet the autopsies said nothing about being cooked from the inside out, so you can reasonably rule out microwaves.
Nigel Evans
17-09-2017 23:02 (GMT)
@LC - just give me a list like this :- 1. fact 1 2. fact 2
and so on.
The bodies were frozen solid for many weeks, the expansion of the brain is known to crack skulls. The aorta contains a lot of water (blood) so it will expand a lot. As said before microwaves can heat liquids and make them expand...
Loose-Cannon
17-09-2017 22:41 (GMT)
So help be god Nigel.... you have GOT to get your head out of your royal ass.
AND NOT A SINGLE SHRED OF INTEREST AS TO WHY THEIR AORTAS WERE THREE TIMES THE SIZE THEY SHOULD BE!
Loose-Cannon
17-09-2017 22:38 (GMT)
"To carry out the investigation, the young investigator VI Korotaev. was given a rugged tent, torn by search engines, which was placed in the Lenin room. http://image.ibb.co/mO7xia/pal0.jpg The tent was in terrible condition, with multiple tears and cuts, in some places there were punctured and burned holes, and 2 large pieces of canvas were cut / torn from its side. It is impossible to imagine how it was possible to conduct research on the tent, after it was ruined by search students.
Earlier, I noted that the actions of student search engines who parried the tent and injured her, no one controlled, so for the investigation it was incorrect to investigate the state of the tent in the Lenin room.
Thus, during the study of the tent, as prosecutor Ivdel Tempalov VI claimed, there were no incisions in the tent. However, it is worth noting that on the windy side, ie. from the side of the spur, the tent was torn in the middle part, and, as Tempalov noted, it was brought at first glance by dense snow. This is the only place where Tempalov discovered damages in the tent, which means there were no cuts from which the hikers were escaping from the tent, there was no tent!
Sections and huge holes in the tent on the other side of the spur appeared after Tempalov VI. He examined the tent and instructed the students to collect it and all the things and load it into the helicopter. The tent was frozen to dense snow, so the students cut out and pulled it out of the frozen snow and ice. Then, according to the testimonies of the search engines, the tent dragged to the helicopter to deliver it to Ivdel for research.
Those who saw the tent after the search engine students "worked" with it attributed the cuts made by the search engines to Igor Dyatlov's group. Then, based on this false "fact", a legend was invented that Igor Dyatlov's group cut the tent during its departure.
In fact, the tent was intact and the group left it in an organized manner. Things were all brought into the tent, and the entrance to the tent was closed. The tent itself was not torn by the wind, and only from one side, from the side of the spur, it was pressed down by dense snow, resulting in a large rupture, the reason for the appearance of which just needed to be thoroughly explored ..."
Would ya imagine that!!..... dense snow build on one side pressing down causing a rupture, along comes the students ripping, tearing, shovels and axe!
I said it once, Ill say it again. For all we know they never 'fled in panic' to begin with and its HIGHLY unlikely they were 'observing' anything outside the tent in whiteout conditions.... remember this?? http://image.ibb.co/fsd69F/dtyjdty.jpg
Loose-Cannon
17-09-2017 22:37 (GMT)
"Tempalov photographed the camera and instructed her to disassemble, put things in their backpacks and move them to the camp ... We disassembled a ten-man tent covered with a hard snow with shovels!
According to the former judge of Ivdel in 1959 Novokreschenova GV. Korotaev V.I. said that ... "the tent was covered with snow, and the snow was very hard. I had to use an ax, cut it with an ax and, of course, crippled it."
At the same time, there was no system to free the tent from snow. First they took out a few stale blankets, then buckets, a stove, two or three sacks of biscuits, shoes and other things. Things were stacked in backpacks, and dragged the tent to the search engine camp. Naturally, after such manipulations on the tent, sections and torn pieces could appear."
BINGO..... a complete mishandling of evidence. NOW YOU TELL ME NIGEL... If this tent was flap flap flappin in gale force winds for weeks and a chunk tore back starting at an existing tear/hole OR a student (amateurs first on scene) ripped it open (you admitted they did) and the section was PEALED BACK..... You get after that tent digging it out of hard snow with an AXE AND SHOVEL..... THE CUTS WILL NOW BE ON THE INSIDE OF THE CANVAS THAT WAS PEALED BACK AND COVERED IN SNOW!!!! WOW... Freaking amazeballs!!!
Loose-Cannon
17-09-2017 22:36 (GMT)
" In the tent was impossible to shove; all of it was covered with snow and how things were located it was possible to consider only when digging it. The tent was installed capitally. On the snow was prepared a level platform, on the snow laid skiing surface up, on them the bottom of the tent was already lying. In the tent below were laid quilted jackets (aside from the slope), backpacks empty were laid out on the tent. In the same side of the tent (to the slope) each lay personal things."
Right.... I see whats going on here. The items were removed while DIGGING IT... LIKE WITH A FREAKING SHOVEL!! Talking about eye level cut.... Just what is the shovel-head width comparison to those slits Nigel..... Hmmmmmmm?? Think McFly!
Loose-Cannon
17-09-2017 22:33 (GMT)
"On the second day, search groups were organized, and I with the prosecutor Tempalov and with him a man of up to 10 went to excavate the tent. The tent was discovered on the slope of the peak "1079", 100-150 m from the top to the northeast. At first glance, the tent seemed snowed, but when we looked at it, we saw that the tent on the entrance side held on to the central peg and was well reinforced with ropes. Another of its edges, too, stayed on the wheel, but since The middle of the tent was covered with snow, and the skylights of the tent on the windward side were severely torn, then the edge sank and was under the snow."
You read that?? "skylights of the tent on the windward side were severely torn" WINDWARD SIDE WAS TORN So with all this talk of high ass winds etc and statements like this..... You telling me there is NO CHANCE of the darn tent ripping from flap flap flappin in the winds for WEEKS rubbing on god knows what inside?? I call major BS man, MAJOR BS! And dont give me the "oh there was eyelets cut to watch the BL" horse crap.... you have no clue where, when or why those smaller three horizontal holes were made! I told you.... READ THE DARN DIARIES! For petes sakes.... here it is again!
DIARY OF ZINA
It was much easier to go yesterday without backpacks, snow, snow, snow, snow on the banks froze. rivers snow snow. Lunch was an hour at 4 pm "After dinner I did just one transfer and stopped to rest. I SEWED UP THE TENT. We lay down to sleep. Igor all the time was rude, I just did not recognize him. I had to sleep on the wood near the stove."
This damn tent was riddled with holes and in constant need of sewing repair!!!!! Folding, dragging, wet freeze, unfold, rip, oops.. Its also common to store anchoring gear for the tent folded up with it!
Loose-Cannon
17-09-2017 22:30 (GMT)
"Prosecutor Tempalov VI in the presence of AA Chernyshev. and witnesses examined the tent of hikers, compiled a survey report and photographed the tent after all the "investigative" events held two days earlier by the students.
After such actions the students, of course, the tent lost its original appearance, and the consequence of no trace near the tent could no longer detect. The snow around the tent was strewn with search engines, and the tracks were sprinkled ...
In the report of the inspection of the tent, Tempalov, in particular, noted that the stretches of the tent on the south side were intact, while the stretches of the tent on the north side were torn off and the whole second half of the tent was covered with snow. The tent was installed on a level platform excavated by students, with a windy side it was torn in the middle part. In his testimony, Tempalov did not say a word about the tent sections, because there were no incisions!
Tempalov wrote that in the right corner of the tent near the entrance lay food and a flask empty from alcohol or vodka (the smell was felt) and that he had the impression that the students drank vodka and had a snack. This was the first version and an attempt by the investigative authorities to falsify the cause of the death of hikers.
In the blood of students, alcohol was not detected (methyl alcohol - not alcohol, but poison)."
Loose-Cannon
17-09-2017 22:28 (GMT)
@Nigel... even better
"Above all things lay a ski-slit cut into several pieces, apparently, the northern end of the tent was strengthened on it. Decide on the spoilage of the stick, given that in the group there were no substitutes it is possible only under special circumstances."
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA....... The stick (ski pole) was used as an anchor on the Northern end of the tent!!!! Actually was North West but I digress again!!! THE POINT IS..... NO FREAKING TRIPOD FOR BL VIDEO FOOTAGE. Read the GD case files!!!!!
Loose-Cannon
17-09-2017 22:23 (GMT)
@Nigel... Remember this?
"Under the tent put 8 pairs of skis down attachments. Thanks to the dense snow cover, the tent was installed very firmly. Everything is covered with already clammy snow, except for the southern skate, fortified on a ski pole and tied for a pair of skis. Under the northern ridge there was no stick."
And you thought it was a fancy field expedient tripod for the undercover KGB fancy high speed/low drag futuristic camera thats waterproofed with special BL lenses !!!
wrong wrong wrong..... just admit that you were WRONG!!
Nigel Evans
17-09-2017 22:09 (GMT)
@LC - "I already gave you like 6 examples of how he fubared the investigation. Whether it be on purpose, because he is a moron, or both. You didnt even let me get to the thyroid gland crap!!!! "
Try giving them to me again, might have missed them before (rolls eyes).
Nigel Evans
17-09-2017 21:48 (GMT)
@Lyndasez - "How about a moose used them as footpath post mortem?! ... " Because the pathologist would have spotted the lack of internal bleeding with the two chest fractures (unless he's lying as per coverup). The internal bleeding gives him a rough time as to how long they lived after the trauma. LD circa 15min, SZ longer. Incidentally that fits with the transfer of clothing from LD to SZ. Assuming the autopsy is genuine then they died of those injuries. But if they wanted to hide the cause of death, why not wait until the summer? They'd come back to find just skeletons spread all over the mountain by predators. What are they going to measure that isn't known? I don't think you're factoring the high winds and cold, it's a tough place to look for a needle in a haystack. Also Ivanov came on the scene late after they'd fired the first guy. By then any evidence had been recorded or lost.
Lyndasez
17-09-2017 21:15 (GMT)
"Q. Why do it if they knew where the bodies were buried?" @Nigel, They were in no hurry to investigate, you've done more indepth work on your BL theory. They used no measuring tools at the scene, probed with ski poles, were seriously lacking in investigative photos, compromised evidence, cutting it..on and on. Then fed preposterous theories and disinformation.
They tossed out things like some super force crushed bones without surface bruising...
How about a moose used them as footpath post mortem?! ...
Loose-Cannon
17-09-2017 20:57 (GMT)
Hillary Clinton says Trump supporters are carrying water for the Kremlin....... I WANT MY DAMN CHECK ALREADY!!! (bat in hand)
Lyndasez
17-09-2017 20:54 (GMT)
"- isn't it normal for KGB cases, something like 60 years?"
@Nigel, haha, Yes, indeed, my friend and why do you think that is? They're probably data-mining this sites info to see what sticks!
Loose-Cannon
17-09-2017 20:52 (GMT)
"give me your case for a coverup. What are the facts?"
I already gave you like 6 examples of how he fubared the investigation. Whether it be on purpose, because he is a moron, or both.
You didnt even let me get to the thyroid gland crap!!!!
Nigel Evans
17-09-2017 20:51 (GMT)
@Lyndasez - the case against a coverup is the fact.... that they spent so much money investigating it. Q. Why do it if they knew where the bodies were buried? A. Because they didn't and they had concerns wrt defection. That's why they couldn't wait until the summer and go back for the skeletons. They just didn't know what had happened.
Nigel Evans
17-09-2017 20:45 (GMT)
@Lyndasez - isn't it normal for KGB cases, something like 60 years?
KMM
17-09-2017 20:40 (GMT)
Nigel Evans 17-09-2017 20:14 (GMT) Lyndasez - give me your case for a coverup. What are the facts?
Nigel is asking for facts ? strange, he argues BL without any facts
Lyndasez
17-09-2017 20:36 (GMT)
" give me your case for a coverup. What are the facts."
@Nigel, "According to ex-governor of the Sverdlovsk region, Senator Eduard Rossel, the tragedy on the Dyatlov Pass still remains strictly classified information." Pravda.Ru 08.14.2017
Nigel Evans
17-09-2017 20:14 (GMT)
Lyndasez - give me your case for a coverup. What are the facts?
Lyndasez
17-09-2017 19:51 (GMT)
@Nigel, Who?! I'm pretty new, not up to speed on all the info! However, if you think some cover-up isn't involved, I've got a bridge to sell you!
Nigel Evans
17-09-2017 19:41 (GMT)
@Lyndasez - groan not that Rakitin rubbish.
Lyndasez
17-09-2017 19:20 (GMT)
@Anna, Oh, absolutely! ...and not just 1959. Ivanov would probably say: "Watch out! There's a Yeti behind you," whilst he pickpockets your wallet! Red herrings ..left an right!
"Investigator Ivanov was not too lazy to get the number of the newspaper "Tagilsky Rabochiy" dated February 18, 1959, which - for a minute! - was not sold in Sverdlovsk and cut out a note about an unusual celestial phenomenon. The investigator did not leave any explanations for his manipulations in the case, thus allowing the interested parties to independently puzzle over the hidden logic of his behavior."
Anna Yordanova
17-09-2017 18:58 (GMT)
@Lindasez.Lets not forget that we are talking about 1959,the time when the Communist party was everything in the former Soviet union. The people had to do whatever the Party wanted them to do.
Lyndasez
17-09-2017 18:18 (GMT)
"There is no evidence at all that they went there to photograph the lights.Your assumptions that Zolotarev as a secret spy went on a mission to investigate them also don`t have any proof.We all can speculate,but we have to adhere to the facts and make conclusions only based on them."
@Anna Yordanova, you are correct! Unfortunately the lead investigator, this knucklehead, Ivanov is a student of Russian cover-up and an disinformation. He pretty much threw out the rule book and did everything he shouldn't, if he did anything, based on accounts I've read. Facts are few and far between...
Nigel Evans
17-09-2017 17:50 (GMT)
@Lyndasez - agreed, just giving you the full story from the DPI foundation.
Lyndasez
17-09-2017 17:44 (GMT)
" the edges of the frames could be clearly seen."
Nigel, You neglected to add, "under a powerful microscope."
Like I said, without me seeing the entire negative, it's difficult to determine.. the key is, are we looking at a negative (unprocessed film) or positive (processed) true image.
Nigel Evans
17-09-2017 17:09 (GMT)
@Lyndasez - the edges of the frames could be clearly seen.
Nigel Evans
17-09-2017 17:05 (GMT)
It gets better (not). Reading more from McClosky's book the evidence is that SZ used that camera for recreational shots on previous days...
Lyndasez
17-09-2017 16:51 (GMT)
So sorry about that repetitive post! Kept saying "verification invalid," till I saw the misspelled name!
Lyndasez
17-09-2017 16:49 (GMT)
"It would be good to see the a picture of the original negs, should resolve the exposed/unexposed question?"
@Nigel, the film, if it contained actual photos, to me, they've been ruined (over-exposed) this is based on the few snippets of them posted, if that's any comfort.
@Loose Cannon, thanks for sharing those sweet finds, awesome work!
Lyndsez
17-09-2017 16:48 (GMT)
"It would be good to see the a picture of the original negs, should resolve the exposed/unexposed question?"
@Nigel, the film, if it contained actual photos, to me, they've been ruined (over-exposed) this is based on the few snippets of them posted, if that's any comfort.
@Loose Cannon, thanks for sharing those sweet finds, awesome work!
Lyndsez
17-09-2017 16:48 (GMT)
"It would be good to see the a picture of the original negs, should resolve the exposed/unexposed question?"
@Nigel, the film, if it contained actual photos, to me, they've been ruined (over-exposed) this is based on the few snippets of them posted, if that's any comfort.
@Loose Cannon, thanks for sharing those sweet finds, awesome work!
Nigel Evans
17-09-2017 16:46 (GMT)
@LC - "Never did I state it was a smart decision" Got that right. Based on this they had already gone too far west with the 31 Jan camp/labaz.
Soooo, on the 30th jan they were already commiting to this change of plan even though ID had his doubts about it.... I'm seeing a purpose to all of this...
Nigel Evans
17-09-2017 16:37 (GMT)
@LC - "A huge chunk? of your theory just vaporized before our eyes regarding your holy grail three balls bs." Dream on...
Nigel Evans
17-09-2017 16:35 (GMT)
@Lyndasez - i couldn't comment that's too technical. Apparently these negs have been handed over to the DPI foundation by Ivanov's daughter. It would be good to see the a picture of the original negs, should resolve the exposed/unexposed question?
Loose-Cannon
17-09-2017 16:32 (GMT)
"I'm simply following in Ivanov's footsteps. In a Court of Law they use the term "balance of probabilities". If that's good enough for putting people in jail, it's good enough for trying to solve the DPI"
Flowing Ivanov.... A full blown idiot. AND HE DIDN'T SOLVE THE CASE. but I guess neither will you, so its fitting. What kinda kangaroo court you guys have over there anyhow??!?
You act as though BL is the only theory with evidence whatever.... THE BL THEORY IS 100% BASED ON FALSE FACTS AND CONJECTURE. IT IS NO BETTER THEN ANY OTHER THEORY. And THAT is a fact.
A huge chunk? of your theory just vaporized before our eyes regarding your holy grail three balls bs. Your already doubling down. Wow
Loose-Cannon
17-09-2017 16:25 (GMT)
Apparently there was no Weatherbug app at the time.....lol. Never did I state it was a smart decision, but I also do not have a habit of construing facts to fit a narrative. I do not know of any way Igor could have known the weather future on the other side of a ridge days beforehand. In addition, there is a seldomly seen photo of them in perfect weather traversing the back side of the ridge.... But your not interested in that sorta stuff now are ya my little buddy. It is also said that Igor and the bunch would have loved to practice their skills and earn a certain level of bragging rights by digging in under those conditions and altitude.
Left late.... Did you bother to see when they stopped the delay before or take in account how tired they were, OR how long it takes to setup the tent etc the night before and the morning after? Nope.... Completely blinded by AL contributing factors. Your only going to see what you want to see. You cannot be helped... Its like a disease.
Remember, we don't need make a theory fit or explain your BL false facts. Example... When someone says 'they were murdered', you say 'how does murder explain the three heads exposure'. Complete nonsense.
Lyndasez
17-09-2017 16:21 (GMT)
(@Lyndasez - i'm not a photography expert but googling say ""35mm sprocket holes" i can find images were the whole film including sprocket holes has been exposed. Hence i assume it is camera dependent some will limit the frame to between the holes some won't. So a good point but inconclusive?)
@Nigel, that is manipulated film. Examples:
?... convert your Lubitel+ into a 35mm machine with the included “Lubikin” set – allowing you to snap vertical panoramic images with exposed sprocket holes.?
16mm film fed through a 35mm gate (so you can see the sprocket holes in the film) on a Sony film scanner, hand-cranked for variance in speed.
Kodak Brownie Target Six-16 with expired roll of 35mm Kodak Portra 160NC. I thought I would shoot sprocket hole photos with this camera rather than respooling 120 film...
The process is pretty easy -- just cushion the roll of 35mm with foam, customize your 120 take up spool with some format reducing rubber bands, and tape the heck out of the camera. A general rule of thumb when winding between shots is to go 34 clicks. Frame spacing will be tight at the beginning of the roll, and then you'll have gaps as you get towards the end. Nicolai over at Photon Detector has an excellent winding chart for getting more even frame spacing and being efficient with your film. Some people even tape a winding chart to the back of the camera. Just cross out each exposure as you go. And if you're tired of carrying a changing bag to unwind your 35mm film in complete darkness, Randy over at Holgamods sells a 35mm Holga conversion that allows you to rewind the film in the camera. I can't wait to do some sprocket Holga night photography!
Nigel Evans
17-09-2017 16:11 (GMT)
@Anna - there's not enough evidence to support any of the theories without adding conjecture. I'm simply following in Ivanov's footsteps. In a Court of Law they use the term "balance of probabilities". If that's good enough for putting people in jail, it's good enough for trying to solve the DPI.
Nigel Evans
17-09-2017 16:02 (GMT)
@LC - Sooooo, because they're falling behind schedule.... they leave late and make a short trip to the ridge in virtual whiteout conditions from high winds.... Hmmm. presumably they had checked on the internet to confirm that tomorrows weather was good and they could make good time skiing downhill. Otherwise if the weather was bad then they'd be better off in the forest?
You see if i was there i'd be saying something like, "Guys and girls, we've got to get up early and have a big hike today staying in the forest where the trees will negate any whiteout from the high winds, that way we can catch up on the plan.".
Anna Yordanova
17-09-2017 15:56 (GMT)
@Nigel.There is no evidence at all that they went there to photograph the lights.Your assumptions that Zolotarev as a secret spy went on a mission to investigate them also don`t have any proof.We all can speculate,but we have to adhere to the facts and make conclusions only based on them.
Loose-Cannon
17-09-2017 15:43 (GMT)
Thats all you have... Really??
Its a well known little fact they were behind schedule and taking that slight deviation would have kept them out of the deep snow and harder to traverse wooded areas of the lowland. This kept them in open terrain and the following day would be mostly down-hill. It also cut the corner off the route which would additionally make up some time. This isn't rocket science Nigel.... No conspiracy required.
Nigel Evans
17-09-2017 15:15 (GMT)
@LC - "Zero evidence what so ever..... completely fabricated conjecture. "
The last entry in the diary (by the group leader) strongly supports the view that they were deviating from the planned route through the forest to use the ridge instead. So there's a piece of evidence = FACT 1. FACT 2 = this decision would involve significant discomfort as the stove couldn't be used. Plus there was risk from such an exposed camp. Very high winds etc as ID indicates in his entry.
So we have two FACTS that support the theory that they chose the ridge even though it would be uncomfortable and potentially unsafe.
So now all it takes is to find the unstated motive for this decision. I opt for photographing the lights. You are welcome to posit another theory (good luck).
Zero evidence what so ever..... completely fabricated conjecture. I have also proven without a doubt Ivanov couldn't distinguish his ass from a hole in the ground.
"there was a light there that night and there is a group of photos from several cameras that could support this"
'Perhaps', but unfortunately that light (if even accurate report) could have literally been..... anything and is in no way shape or form proof or evidence thats what killed 9 people. What other pics are we to believe caught BL now? What 'group'?
Nigel Evans
17-09-2017 14:18 (GMT)
@LC - nothing i've said changes my overall view. The three heads is still of interest but not as thought. I'm just recognising a mistake.
It would be good to know the magnification used on the Eagle1 photo as that's a key piece of evidence as it matches the meteorologists report, as is that Ivanov records in that interview that a light was seen near Otorten the night of Feb 1-2.
Whether Ivanov believed in fairies/aliens/yeti isn't important to the BL theory, what's important is that he can see that they went there to photograph a light, there was a light there that night and there is a group of photos from several cameras that could support this (but agreed there's ambiguity).
Still looking good for the BL theory imo .
Loose-Cannon
17-09-2017 13:46 (GMT)
On a different note...
I have downloaded likely hundreds of photos. Mainly of the actual diaries, and the kids 'official papers' if anyone would like my to upload a particular diary, or someones documents to my photosharing, and post them here... just let me know.
In addition, I came across several pictures of the group members bot before and during that I doubt everyone has seen.... if interested
Oh, quality color scans of the tent fabric file also.
Loose-Cannon
17-09-2017 13:42 (GMT)
"The effect of the lights made him fearful and his instinct told him not to look at them."
The interview I read.... he was scared shitless.
"For me the important point is that he (as the police detective on the case looking at all the evidence) connected the DPI with fireballs"
Nigel... you have ONE biased book 'hinting' at this, while on the other hand ALL other reports have him in clearly the Alien category. I know this book must have had a profound effect on you, but you just have to let it go. Come into the light and back down to earth... no more tunnel vision, no more 'BL does it all' fantasy. Right now your in a state of denial, this denial is self evident by a continuation of mentality doubling-down on a false narrative in efforts re-convince your own self conscious.
Nigel.... I dont 'need' to tell you I told you so, but on a positive note, I hope you have learned a valuable lesson, can come away from this more open to ideas, and willing to actually look into other possibilities in equal to BL.
This falling apart of the three heads crap is only one part of several wonky aspects of the BL theory that dont hold water. Believe me, I wish it were as easy to definitively conclude it was BL so I can go on with researching something else and may there be some closure to those involved, but this may never be so.
Nigel Evans
17-09-2017 09:51 (GMT)
@KMM - there's conflicting evidence here, but why is it important? For me the important point is that he (as the police detective on the case looking at all the evidence) connected the DPI with fireballs, not his beliefs in their composition/source. He was a police detective not a physicist.
KMM
17-09-2017 09:19 (GMT)
From Nigel's OWN POST
Lev Ivanov, followed the extra-terrestrial line of explanation. Most policemen tend to be hard-nosed types who have seen it all by the time they have reached the end of a long career in the police and Ivanov had probably seen his share of the worst of human nature in a large city like Sverdlovsk. He could have stuck with one of the more non-contentious theories such as an avalanche, with regards to the Dyatlov deaths, but he chose to keep to the line of them being killed by something out of this world.
Nigel Evans
17-09-2017 08:52 (GMT)
Note - "Yury also said that both he himself and Valentin Rudkovsky had felt very tired and sleepy for days after their encounters with the lights."
Support there for my "debilitating force" theory wrt the returning three. They got it stronger.
Nigel Evans
17-09-2017 08:21 (GMT)
@Lyndasez - i'm not a photography expert but googling say ""35mm sprocket holes" i can find images were the whole film including sprocket holes has been exposed. Hence i assume it is camera dependent some will limit the frame to between the holes some won't. So a good point but inconclusive?
Just came across something very odd.... there was apparently a young man named Victor Nikitin that was buried with them and his documents are here with the Dyatlov group. :/
Going just the pics of the SZ film posted here. I'm pretty convinced this roll of film wasn't used. As you can see, from LCs posts of negatives once used there is a clear difference where picture is and sprocket line. This is not true with SZs negs it's all one value. Looks like whole roll was exposed and the emulsion degraded in spots.
Loose-Cannon
17-09-2017 03:20 (GMT)
omg... all their personal 'documents'. Ill be copying photos for hours.
Loose-Cannon
17-09-2017 02:35 (GMT)
Found all sorts of photos rarely seen from their cameras, and I thought I seen them all!.... and pics of each diary etc.
Ok.... I had to do some minor hacking to get theses pics. They were NOT permitted to be copied via regular methods, so I had to extract the page source in html!
Are you ready?.......
Loose-Cannon
17-09-2017 00:55 (GMT)
"Those negatives were magnified 30X to get the little white dots to even show up"
Oh for the love of Sam Houston!!!!
KMM
17-09-2017 00:49 (GMT)
Those negatives were magnified 30X to get the little white dots to even show up
If memory serves me correctly from reading the russian forum. There is no doubt it was the last exposure on one of the cameras film roll and its a basically unanimous consensus this was produced in the photo lab when clicking the shutter on loaded exposure. They would have had to snap the shutter before winding up the roll and opening it up.
They have pics the original negs....... Ill try and find them.
KMM
16-09-2017 23:48 (GMT)
EDIT: L.I. IVANOV
Loose-Cannon
16-09-2017 23:48 (GMT)
Ivanov was a full blown retard. Nuff said!
Loose-Cannon
16-09-2017 23:44 (GMT)
"not sure of your point?"
One moment your talking about the super top secret BL watching expedition where the gov 'just had' to have a group of kids get the USSR KGB internal state spy into the backwoods and there "There was no clear reason to be afraid of the lights"
NOW, your referencing the 'guy in the open pit mine' light in the sky report. Im sure you read the part about how he basically shit his pants because it was soooo terrifying .....
Im just wondering which it is.... Shit a volvo turn your hair white terrifying, or pet Johns pluffy kitty kitty innocent no reason to fear?
Nigel Evans
16-09-2017 23:42 (GMT)
@LC - Understand your point but EITHER you'd have to get hold of the "The Way of Lenin" article and translate it.. OR trust a Russian journalist who quotes from the article...
Loose-Cannon
16-09-2017 23:34 (GMT)
Nigel.. you really need to stop reading these crap books by know-it-alls that only want to profit off of the poor victims death. All your reading is an opinion thats biased. Think for yourself!! These people inject all kinds of their own crap making it difficult to discern fact from fiction. Like your other fav book did with the Ivanov UFO part..... Ill bet ya the author added a little somethin somethin to the statement.... as if the author was "clarifying" what Ivanov said which in reality did not exist.
So looks like i've got to backtrack here Not taken from inside the tent...
KMM
16-09-2017 23:18 (GMT)
SURE wish there was an "EDIT" button, i wouldn't have to post as much
KMM
16-09-2017 23:14 (GMT)
Same as they show here, labeled as SZ's, and other sites
Loose-Cannon
16-09-2017 23:01 (GMT)
Fairly certain there was no shovel in the den...
Loose-Cannon
16-09-2017 22:56 (GMT)
KMM... just saw your message. Replied
KMM
16-09-2017 22:53 (GMT)
Their labeled as .jpg but photos of the negatives
Kmm
16-09-2017 22:50 (GMT)
Appendix 1: Table of Examination of NEGATIVES from Dyatlov Group Cameras
Loose-Cannon
16-09-2017 22:48 (GMT)
"suggests it's not easy to determine who's camera took what"
Yes, as far as the other cameras are concerned, but SZs was the only one specifically labeled when found and investigated. Also, the Russian forum dedicated to the DPI, they clearly have them the others figured out and sectioned.
So you ARE looking at the SZ specific negs...
^^^^^^ SEE^^^^^^^^ Its called integrity!
Loose-Cannon
16-09-2017 22:01 (GMT)
"Probably in the den when it collapsed (and dragged out) or thrown by an explosion."
I think it would have been more of a shift, but meh. The position they were found looks relative to their injuries.
Loose-Cannon
16-09-2017 21:56 (GMT)
"@LC - seems fine for me, maybe try again? It's just a vid of the Sex Pistols playing your favourite track..."
It literally says "not avail in your country"
Anywho...... they stink. God saved my ears!!!
@Lyndasez You make a great point! NO LIGHT SOURCE!
Lyndasez
16-09-2017 21:34 (GMT)
Nigel, I'm looking at the photo section on this site at your "light" photos. It says they're negatives not contacts. From my experience with developing negs, whatever is light, converts to dark when developed a on contact sheet..
KMM
16-09-2017 21:30 (GMT)
Well, IDK. Robot from 3 yrs ago has those photo's from SZ camera to back up his theory
Nigel Evans
16-09-2017 21:07 (GMT)
@LC - seems fine for me, maybe try again? It's just a vid of the Sex Pistols playing your favourite track...
@KMM - i don't think you need maths to quantify the probablities, qualitative will do just fine. All the scenarios have a low probability. One of them has photograph
@Lyndasez - the rav4 were found just a few metres from the den. Probably in the den when it collapsed (and dragged out) or thrown by an explosion.
Nigel Evans
16-09-2017 20:11 (GMT)
@Lyndasez - don't know anything about a shovel?
Lyndasez
16-09-2017 20:05 (GMT)
Nigel, Yes, that makes more sense, it constructed beforehand...however someone brought clothes from the others there, but didn't stay...was the shovel theirs? (If you know) thanks
Nigel Evans
16-09-2017 20:00 (GMT)
@Lyndasez - i think it's accepted the twigs are seats. Imo the den would have been covered - snow cave. S. Oss wonders if the den was previously constructed by mansi hunters as the floor is very well prepared.
@KMM - i don't think you need maths to quantify the probablities, qualitative will do just fine. All the scenarios have a low probability. One of them has photographs...
Loose-Cannon
16-09-2017 19:48 (GMT)
@LC - yes, are you American?
I thought so. GOD SAVE THE QUEEN!!
Yes, TX ..... usmc vet.
KMM
16-09-2017 19:40 (GMT)
Nigel Evans 16-09-2017 19:13 (GMT) @KMM - ask your son Happy
I called him last night to ask about arguing "probabilities" with you. He said i could but it would take a lot of time, math, backed up with sources, etc....
Lyndasez
16-09-2017 19:32 (GMT)
The den the RAV4 dug out really puzzles me. They dug what looks in excess of a 9ft x9ft 3 sided shelter, twigs for a fire, no one is found in it. There is shreds clothes from a couple of the dead and a shovel?! Who had the presence of mind to take a shovel...and leave flashlights behind, they dug this in the darkness?? Something took after them there as well? ...
Nigel Evans
16-09-2017 19:13 (GMT)
@KMM - ask your son
KMM
16-09-2017 18:56 (GMT)
Nigel Evans 16-09-2017 18:21 (GMT) @KMM - "your BL theory has company:" Now you're just taking the piss Happy
Maybe so, but don't you think SZ's photo's fit that theory also ?
Nigel Evans
16-09-2017 18:53 (GMT)
@LC - yes, are you American?
Loose-Cannon
16-09-2017 18:33 (GMT)
Nigel... Are you British?
Nigel Evans
16-09-2017 18:21 (GMT)
@KMM - "your BL theory has company:" Now you're just taking the piss
KMM
16-09-2017 18:11 (GMT)
Here Nigel, your BL theory has company: Robot 3 years ago ""I have thought of the unfortunate and unexplained deaths of these students for some time and as Spock said in Star Trek – quoted from Sherlock Holmes “… when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth…” I originally thought that it may have been the Russian Army with concussion bombs that were dropped on them by accident. The Army had used this location for secret tests. Some mention that the Army secretly arrived at the crime scene 1 week before the rescuers found the bodie. This could answer a few of the mysteries but not all! Why their tent was on the side of the mountain and not logically down at the tree line for shelter and fire wood? The Army could have moved the tent up the mountain to change the crime scene. Why there was radioactive material on some of the clothing and why they were not wearing any protective clothes for the harsh climate? The Army could have changed their clothes and confiscated clothing which showed being radioactive. Though all good explanations, I do believe there is only one explanation that holds up to all the facets of this case! Yeti or Abominable Snow Man - Encounter! On research I found that the small tent used was not their main tent. They had left supplies at a base camp and were using this very small tent for an excursion. What was their purpose for climbing the Ural mountain range? I googled Russian news broadcast for the past year (1958) and found an interesting account of Yeti encounters on this range. That year a number of local Mansi tribe people disappeared. After an investigation, the Russian Government banned all further reporting on the Yeti with threats of incarceration. These students may have been acting as investigating reporters and photographers and needed a cover to conceal their true purpose. The one person they added to their close group was a guide familiar with the territory. A note on a printed paper in their possession was scribbled “From now on we know that the snow men exist”. Although they used guns to protect themselves in the wilderness for previous trips (pictures show), they did not carry any this time in case they were stopped and questioned. Whatever attacked them in their tent did not bite or claw but had extreme power to crush. A similar attack at Yale BC in the 1800’s by some gold miners who claimed to have captured a baby Sasquatch and in Washington State 1920’s of an attack: http://www.bigfootlives.com/ ... In 1946 Cultus Lake BC a newlywed couple disappeared from their cabin with only large footprints found surrounding the cabin. Case Scenario The illogical pitching of their tent in the open rather than down at the tree line may have been due to a scare from the locals at the last settlement. Towns’ people warned them about reindeer having been found dead in this area. They may have felt more secure making camp in the open rather than down within the trees. After setting up camp they would have taken off their boots and put their heavy outer wear outside to dry. Due to the limited space within the tent they more than likely stored this gear along with their skies and pack sacks in the overhang where the chimney exits. They then entered the tent using their long johns and tent slippers inside and had supper. Shortly after supper, two of the men went outside to urinate (documented) with a flashlight, which they left on the roof of the tent (documented) and a lighter and cigarettes to have a smoke. It was written in their diary that the women did not want them smoking in the hotel rooms or tent. While outside they were attacked and forced to flee down to the forest for cover. There they built a fire for warmth, to notify the others and to keep any predators away. On hearing the commotion outside the tent, 3 of the students with a flashlight went to help and were also attacked. Unable to reach their outerwear at the back of the tent they too fled down the mountain. The Yeti then centered their attack on the 4 remaining students left in the tent. The Yeti being unable to open the tent door or cut through began to pound on the center of the tent while the students inside sliced their knives back through the tent in defense. It’s been reported that Yeti can use sticks and may have poked through the open slits of the tent with one of the ski poles as it was documented that numerous knife cuts were found on one of the ski poles. The Yeti attack temporarily stopped when they saw the fire down at the tree line and the 3 students heading towards it with the flashlight (documented and found on this trail still in the on position). It has been reported that the Yeti are not afraid of fire or light. The Yeti then caught the 3 students before they could reach the tree line. Yeti use their large powerful arms to club and then bear hug their quarry until subdued and unconscious, all similar injuries reported on the students. Forensic Investigators state that when a body is suffocated the blood does not pool back to the organs, but stays at the extremities. The discoloring of the skin seen on the students at their funeral could have been caused by this injury. Seeing that the fire was attracting the Yeti the 2 students at the tree tried to frantically put it out, it was reported that one of these student’s hands were burnt by this action. Next they proceeded to climb a tree. The report claimed they had climbed the tree to observe if their tent was still there to return to. The problem with this statement is that it was after sunset, in winter, in Russia. I googled if there was a full moon that night and it shows that there was no moon visible, so it would have been pitch dark. The only reason to climb a tree at night would be to try and elude a predator. Sasquatches have been reported with the ability to climb trees. One of the students was found a few hundred feet from the tree still clutching a branch, as though he had been dragged down from the tree. When the remaining 4 students of the group did arrive at the tree, they found their companions dead. They proceeded to remove what clothing they could to keep warm rather than return to their tent and what was back there. They then went to a ravine and dug a snow cave for shelter. Unfortunately the Yeti were waiting for them in the forest and pursued them, cornering them at the ravine some short distance away. One problem with the Yeti theory is that no foot prints were ever found. The explanation is that it was sometime after the encounter, in winter, in a valley known for wind. The Yeti/Sasquatch have a very large bipedal foot, much like a “Bear Paw Snow Shoe” which leaves a very flat shallow print. These prints could easily have disappeared with weather conditions. The final explanation may be the hardest to believe and that is - Why have no further sightings or findings been made of Yeti in this location? With all of our technologies, these mountains and the world in general have become a lot smaller, but the Universe is immense and unknown. There were unexplained lights in the sky seen by other observers. Strange creatures have been reported all over the world with similar globe light occurrences (Kentucky Goblin Encounter,Chupacabras, Ogopogo, Lochness Monster, and other such things). Many documented encounters with Sasquatch have been reported with similar globe lights seen around their vicinity. Could it be that there are time portals throughout the Universe and these creatures accidentally pass through them? One such strange occurrence happened in Manila in 1593 where a guard was suddenly transported to Mexico City. http://www.psychic101.com/teleportation-learn.html
Could UFO’s seen in the area be trying to relocate these Yetis back to their rightful locations? Could a nuclear blast such as the 1957-58 Russian accidental nuclear explosion at Kyshtym ( just a few miles south of Oblast Swerdlowsk where these students were) cause a rip in our universe? This accident reportedly killed 1000’s of people and contaminated a 100 square kilometer area with high level radiation. Could the radiation on their clothing have come from physical contact with these entities ?
KMM
16-09-2017 18:07 (GMT)
Hard to get any CLEAR DEFINED answers from you. So your saying those photos were leaked ? on the record
Nigel Evans
16-09-2017 17:59 (GMT)
@KMM - that's it? That's all you got? This is just getting toooooo easy.
KMM
16-09-2017 17:49 (GMT)
However we are discussing these pictures because you said that the burden was one me to prove they are real. I have shown that many of those images are supported by independent witness statements and recent visits to the DP for which you have no answer (don't blame you btw). The supporting evidence for these images is way above coincidence. Here is this photo again, Its surely evidence of UFOs, ball lightning, OH WAIT, ITS A LIGHT BULB ! https://www.wired.com/2014/08/wtf-just-happened-shoot-the-moon/
Nigel Evans
16-09-2017 17:43 (GMT)
@LC - "BINGO!!! ITS ALL BS". Something profound in that, somehow defines you. Can't think why...
@KMM - "WHY ARE WE EVEN SEEING THEM?" Very good point, as i understand they have been made avaialable (leaked?) to one of the key DPI players in Russia who was part of the original rescue team many years after the fact who has made them available on the internet. - http://www.dyatlov-pass-incident.com/valentin-yakimenkos-study-groups-negatives/ . It may be Ivanov never saw them.. There is the chance of fakery here of course. However we are discussing these pictures because you said that the burden was one me to prove they are real. I have shown that many of those images are supported by independent witness statements and recent visits to the DP for which you have no answer (don't blame you btw). The supporting evidence for these images is way above coincidence.
Loose-Cannon
16-09-2017 17:40 (GMT)
Again, here the thread is consumed with the horse-crap already spewed and denounced MANY TIMES over. We know what you think happened..... Can we hear something new, or from someone else please? Perhaps a different idea then Nigels?
Raitelis
16-09-2017 17:36 (GMT)
Following up on my earlier comments....if indeed those that didn't freeze to death were finished off by members of the Mansi...it is interesting to note...most if not all of these individuals suffered some form of skull fracture...that is exactly what You would expect if these victims were first rendered unconscious by a stout blow to the head...the remaining injuries could have then been inflicted on alive but unconscious victims...you can ask the question, "If the Mansi did it, what tools were available to them at the crime scene to inflict these injuries...it easy to answer w/ the possible exception of the crushing injuries...on that one it's also easy to figure out though...an impact force isn't the only way to create a crushing injury..weight will do much the same thing...like the weight of a horse for example...they could easily have sat a horse down on the unconscious individual and squashed them...no enormously strong snowmen, alien or Russian bomb plot is needed..as far as hiding their tracks..hopefully no one puts that technique beyond the ability of these truly expert survivalist/outdoorsman that the Mansi were at that time...the evidence tells the story...just need to go where the facts lead...leave out the aliens, snowmen, Russian bombs etc...Case Closed? !
Loose-Cannon
16-09-2017 17:30 (GMT)
"Compare it with the report from a highly credible witness in the same period.
The meteorologist, Tokareva, gives the most detailed description of the fireball: To the Director of the Ivdel Police Department 15.03.59: At 6:50 local time a comet was seen in the sky. The tail was similar to that of dense cirrus clouds. Then the star became free from the tail, became brighter, and flew away. It began gradually to swell and became a large ball surrounded in mist. Inside this ball a star began to burn, from which, first, a crescent was formed, and then an entire ball, but not as bright. The large ball began to fade and became like a blur. It disappeared at 7:05. The star moved from the south to the northeast.
Oss, Svetlana. Don't Go There: Post Mortem (pp. 100-101). LiberWriter.com. Kindle Edition.
Now if anyone wants to contest the similarity of the above then they need to ask themselves are they being ridiculous..."
Sooo..... a BL report at a dif time and area. AWESOME! Now, how does this prove a fireball killed the group?
Ill make it easy for you.... it DOESN'T
Loose-Cannon
16-09-2017 17:24 (GMT)
"one goes above the sprocket advance line"
BINGO!!! ITS ALL BS
"Don't think there's an easy way to resolve that one."
No Nigel.... its clearly out out of the exposure area entirely.
@Raitelis "2. Something caused the hikers to cut thru their tent" Not judging by the actual case files.... There is plenty of evidence suggesting the search crew dug out the tent and its contents with an axe and shovels which cut the canvas on the inside surface when flaps WHERE PEALED BACK making the inside....now facing outward.
"Mansi likely argued w/ the hikers in order to keep them out of a Sacred area"
Pretty sure it is NOT a sacred area.
KMM
16-09-2017 17:21 (GMT)
@KMM - "Sounds like a capitulation" wise decision on your part !
If that damaged film is so important why didn't the OFFICIAL investigation pay any attention to it? WHY ARE WE EVEN SEEING THEM? If they were taken by a KGB agent, on a SECRET MISSION, (while getting 8 others killed) WHY aren't they locked away somewhere in some secret archive?
awaiting your next "could of been, might of happened this way"
Nigel Evans
16-09-2017 16:38 (GMT)
@Raitelis - if they were getting scared by sounds of snowmen you don't think they would prepare like getting their boots on and having axes and knives ready to take outside? Whatever it was that scared them gave them no warning.
Raitelis
16-09-2017 16:14 (GMT)
Key Points: 1. The hikers got into an intense argument w/ members of the Mansi. 2. Something caused the hikers to cut thru their tent 3. Something caused the hikers the flee the safety of the tent quickly, without even much clothing.. Theory...the Mansi likely argued w/ the hikers in order to keep them out of a Sacred area....even warning them of snowmen...indeed one of the hikers may have made a passing reference to Snowmen being real, possibly indicating they were being shadowed...likely by Mansi....on the night of the incident Mansi began making loud and weird seemingly inhuman sounds..trying to impersonate snowmen...this caused the hikers to cut holes in the tent to see what was making the sounds...as the sounds grew closer, louder and more threatening some or even most of the hikers panicked and ran for it...as they regrouped... one of them climbed a tree to see if they was really anything out there even as others began to freeze to Death..the few that survived after taking the clothes of the recently dead were finished off by the Mansi ..remember the Mansi aren't stupid...they made the murders look consistent w/ their own legends of Snowmen attacks...this is especially obvious w/ the removal of the tongue of one of the girls..something even modern Mansi are quick to point out...is the signature of a snowman attack...this fits the core facts of the case...there are other aspects of this case that have been added later that are likely fictional add ons...Case Solved??
Nigel Evans
16-09-2017 15:50 (GMT)
@Lyndasez - the bunker has been mentioned before by Anna, it's relevance to the DPI depends very much on it's age of course. Could be there for advanced ball lightning research.. Or i could have just made that up...
One man's blurred object is anothers emulsion degradation? Don't think there's an easy way to resolve that one.
Lyndasez
16-09-2017 15:23 (GMT)
I just came across this. I'm going to leave it here for anyone who didn't see it to peruse. Interesting, underground bunker 6 miles from them, if it's been posted before, I apologize. ------------------ A mysterious object was discovered near the site, where hikers died when trying to cross the Dyatlov Pass. Amateur radio engineer and researcher of paranormal phenomena Valentin Degtyarev believes that the structure that was found on the site may have a connection with the tragedy that took place there in the winter of 1959. It goes about a construction 25-30 meters long and 10-15 meters wide. The construction was found at a distance of ten kilometers from the site, when a group of hikers died in 1959. The construction, Degtyarev believes, could be a part of a bunker that had been built in the Ural mountains during the times of the Cold War. The researcher assumes that the group of hikers could find themselves on the pass the day when neutron weapons were tested. This may explain the presence of radioactive substances on the clothes of one of the victims. The death of the hikers could be a reason, for which the tests were wrapped up. The underground building was blown up and mothballed. The upper part of the bunker is still visible on satellite images. The Dyatlov Pass is considered to be one of the most mysterious areas of hiker routes in the Urals. In February 1959, nine skiers of a hiker club were killed near Mount Otorten under unclear circumstances. Igor Dyatlov was the leader of the group. The bodies that were subsequently found on the site shocked forensic experts: most of the people froze to death, whereas traces on the bodies of other victims indicated that they had died violent deaths. The pass was named in memory of the hiker group led by Igor Dyatlov. Some researchers believe that the hikers died as a result of an explosion of a ballistic missile. According to ex-governor of the Sverdlovsk region, Senator Eduard Rossel, the tragedy on the Dyatlov Pass still remains strictly classified information. Pravda.Ru 08.14.2017
Lyndasez
16-09-2017 15:16 (GMT)
@Nigel. Sorry, but these 3 pics you have attached there look like emulsion degradation to me and one goes above the sprocket advance line...wth?
Compare it with the report from a highly credible witness in the same period.
The meteorologist, Tokareva, gives the most detailed description of the fireball: To the Director of the Ivdel Police Department 15.03.59: At 6:50 local time a comet was seen in the sky. The tail was similar to that of dense cirrus clouds. Then the star became free from the tail, became brighter, and flew away. It began gradually to swell and became a large ball surrounded in mist. Inside this ball a star began to burn, from which, first, a crescent was formed, and then an entire ball, but not as bright. The large ball began to fade and became like a blur. It disappeared at 7:05. The star moved from the south to the northeast.
Oss, Svetlana. Don't Go There: Post Mortem (pp. 100-101). LiberWriter.com. Kindle Edition.
Now if anyone wants to contest the similarity of the above then they need to ask themselves are they being ridiculous...
"Not even LC can argue that Eagle1 isn't an excellent match for a credible eye witness report."
Sheesh... and you talk about people not reading YOUR posts. Wow.... its like 'wow', but backwards.
Nigel Evans
16-09-2017 12:15 (GMT)
@LC - " SOUNDS LIKE A REASONABLE PURPOSE FOR SZ TO BE ADDED TO ME!! " Absolutely, as said below there could have been a basket of reasons for adding him to the group. My theory is that he or they wanted to include getting some photos of the lights. See how easy it is when we agree .
@KMM - Sounds like a capitulation . Not even LC can argue that Eagle1 isn't an excellent match for a credible eye witness report. Springbank 15, i like my whiskey like my women, dark, sweet and with a hint of engine oil...
KMM
16-09-2017 02:11 (GMT)
Nigel , your tied to that BL crap theory and cannot admit you are wrong! At least not publicly, whether you believe it personally, IDK
Is that blended whiskey ?
Loose-Cannon
16-09-2017 01:47 (GMT)
WHY THE F would the communist USSR gov need to infiltrate a kiddy hike to spy on a UFO?! Gimme a freaking break.. They could do what they want, when they want, for however long they want, and with deep gov funding.
I know you would really like to twist things to suite the BL theory Nigel but this is over the moon loco sheet man.
What Nigel is NOT telling everyone, is that the COMMUNIST GOV RAN UNIVERSITY instructed the leader of the college search team to IMMEDIATELY REPORT ANY INDICATIONS THE DYATLOV GROUP MAY HAVE BEEN ATTEMPTING TO DEFECT TO THE US THROUGH THE NORTHERN REGIONS.
Justified or not.... the state had their suspicions and likely had PRIOR to the group setting out. SOUNDS LIKE A REASONABLE PURPOSE FOR SZ TO BE ADDED TO ME!!
Loose-Cannon
16-09-2017 01:28 (GMT)
Oh for frick sakes...
KMM is right! You need to prove the photo is real or accept the original case file stating 'damaged'. I would expect the experts that opened the damn thing would know what 'damaged' means!
3 butt-cheeks, heads, fingers, fabric rolls, flashlight, lantern, lab exposure before removing film..... DAMAGED!.. YOU HAVE NO DAMN CLUE WHAT THE TRUTH IS..... nobody does. You can only state an opinion, and your opinion does not constitute FACT.
Again, if its a real exposure.... it could just as easily be a flashlight which could indicate murder/s. But its not real... I have seen the actual evidence pics of the cut sections and the canvas is thick and has a very tight weave. Its exactly like the military canvas I am familiar with. If you think those are fabric rolls, I can tell you for a fact canvas does not do this AND especially not when still attached on either end keeping tension on it. You also have a major issue with the wave pattern and size. "if" those are slits, then in order to have all three in the frame would require you to be a good 2 feet of more back from the canvas..... at this distance you will NOT see a large open weave patters as suggested the three balls exposure depicts.
Admit it.... repeat after me...
THERE IS NO WAY POSSIBLE FOR ANYONE TO SAY WITH ANY LEVEL OF CERTAINTY WHAT THAT EXPOSURE DEPICTS
Nigel Evans
15-09-2017 23:39 (GMT)
@KMM - Ok lets tackle these in reverse order. It's getting late and the whiskey is taking effect so bear with me.
"So again, On the ONLY night he sets up to photograph lights, without knowing if there will be any, the whole group gets attacked by these lights. not once, but 2 or 3 times. You can't see how ridiculous you have become ? "
You can't argue a scenario wrt the DPI based on probabilities! Jeez the probable outcome of that night is that they wake up in the morning! All the scenarios are very improbable. Internal/external murder/aliens/yetis/wind/BL all extremely improbable and extremely difficult to align with the facts like the injury profile. We're very definately in improbable territory here. If you don't accept that then you're being ridiculous. So your point just isn't made, probable is a false argument.
"Definitely damaged, They lay in snow, ice, water for 3 months ! All you have to do is look at them to see. All but the first one has been magnified so much their meaningless. The first one was accidental exposure in the lab. Seems like you have to prove them to be real, your the one claiming them to be real." Well PROVING isn't easy but :- (a) thanks to google / youtube i can point to images and vids that support the case that there is strong similarity with "real lights". The 2012 @ DP picture being key. But there's also a video of Hessdalen that films a similar light with this asymmetric structure looking like a "T". (b) also there is an argument that if the images were exposed by SZ then he wasn't just photographing dark sky and he wasn't wasting frames. He didn't have a zoom so it's valid that some of the shots are highly magnified, that doesn't invalidate them. (c) the eagle1 shot is absolutely the same as an eyewitness report from that period. A light surrounded by a mist. The eagle1 on it's own says they're real. (d) i don't accept your determination for the three heads pic. I'll throw your improbable argument back at you, how probable is it that a photo that looks like a shot of a bright light through a canvas slit in a snowstorm could accidental? A trillion to one? (e) wrt water damage the theory is that this camera wasn't commercial grade but military grade and waterproof. I'm not aware of cold damaging film?
Can't think of anything else, whiskey permitting : ).
KMM
15-09-2017 22:27 (GMT)
Definitely damaged, They lay in snow, ice, water for 3 months ! All you have to do is look at them to see. All but the first one has been magnified so much their meaningless. The first one was accidental exposure in the lab. Seems like you have to prove them to be real, your the one claiming them to be real.
So again, On the ONLY night he sets up to photograph lights, without knowing if there will be any, the whole group gets attacked by these lights. not once, but 2 or 3 times. You can't see how ridiculous you have become ?
Nigel Evans
15-09-2017 21:24 (GMT)
@KMM - well then you've got to argue that the SZ photos aren't the real deal. Fakes or damage? Personally i think damage is ridiculous. Faked is possible of course.
KMM
15-09-2017 21:10 (GMT)
So only on the night he sets up to photograph lights in the sky, not knowing if they will show up or not, the whole group gets attacked by the lights. That's REALLY, REALLY stretching it, a LOT farther then I am willing to go>
Nigel Evans
15-09-2017 18:22 (GMT)
@KMM - good question, but it wasn't for one night more like 4 nights. I think it was a low priority mission, after all there was no guarantee that the lights would appear. Other priorities would include raising confidence in the students safety, he was an alpine expert and ww2 veteran. It is claimed that there was another kgb agent in the group "K" presumably AK or YK, at least one of whom worked in sensitive nuclear sites so (at a guess) it ticked a few boxes back at HQ. It may have been that SZ took the mission more seriously than his superiors perhaps. Whatever it's no accident that they chose that campsite, they left late and went straight up camping near the ridge just 500m from the nearest point of the treeline. Very hard to argue that they were lost.
KMM
15-09-2017 17:58 (GMT)
Why would a kgb agent NEED to imbed himself in a hiking expedition JUST to look at lights for 1 night?? The military/kgb had free rein. they could have outfitted their own expedition with specialized equipment and stayed for a week or longer. A transfer of radioactive material makes much more sense.
Nigel Evans
15-09-2017 16:24 (GMT)
@Sandy - not sure we're on the same page with the polite poster philosophy...
Nigel Evans
15-09-2017 16:22 (GMT)
@Lyndasez - well i respect you as indeed i respect all the posters and i encourage you to challenge my posts. Not much point coming on here if we don't exchange frank opinions. Whilst i respect people's passion i do think we should all show each other more respect. Nothing wrong with a bit of sarcasm and parody though, particularly when LC and myself cross swords. All good entertainment. But with respect. Shout at the opinion not at the person.
Concerning your post :- "Everyone glosses over the fact these guys were ill equipped to survive any threats they encountered. No flares?" Flares would be of no use, there was no settlement nearby to see them. Anyway even if the flare was seen and even reported there was no rescue infrastructure. That was the attraction for these youngsters, really out in the wild places.
"If SZ were an agent to study "lights," do you not agree he'd have a telescope or binoculars...or a telescopic lens on the camera?" Well he's got to carry that stuff and probably a telescopic lens of that era would be much heavier. I'm guessing he opted for getting closer rather than carrying a pile of stuff. From memory the male members of the group set off with backpacks weighing 50kg so not much room onboard.
"I understand your logic about the the choice of unrestricted skyline...if he was to observe all this phenomena, but couldn't he walk to a clearing" No that's the point the snow being whipped up off the back of the ridge ruled out a clearing or climbing a tree. Just 200m of altitude below the ridge and the sky could be a near whiteout. 200m higher and you're above it.
"instead making them sitting ducks? I mean wouldn't this raise questions and too many concerns about his choices between the group?" There was no clear reason to be afraid of the lights other than mansi superstition would be the thinking. Someone went to the DP in 2012 and photographed these lights even with the benefit of hindsight. A light in the sky isn't scary until it comes and sits next to you...
Sandy
15-09-2017 16:19 (GMT)
John Wolfe 15-09-2017 03:15 (GMT) Hi Nigel, re: the "three heads" photo -- if you examine it -- you'll see that the two "heads" on the right are not rounded like the one on the left -- I think what we're seeing is FIVE HEADS -- the two on the right look to me to be occluding / overlapping of two each.
5 heads?? I can't believe the utter bullshit you & ballman keep coming up with......
There's nothing special about you John. You're delusional & have no idea of self awareness.
Keep the preposterous shit coming, it's good for a chuckle.
Have a nice day.
Lyndasez
15-09-2017 15:17 (GMT)
@Nigel Hello, I'm starting to think everyone's on "crazy pills!" Where in my post did I complain of vitriol?! That was JW at me! He stated my comments were less than useless...didn't see you pipe up about that...I'm respectful when respected, if you're gonna give it to me without prompting, sorry all bets are off...
To address your theory of SZ being a KGB to study lights in the area.... Everyone glosses over the fact these guys were ill equipped to survive any threats they encountered. No flares? How good is an important mission under those circumstances? If SZ were an agent to study "lights," do you not agree he'd have a telescope or binoculars...or a telescopic lens on the camera? I confess I haven't delved into the many theories, just cursory...so I try reserve comment on them. I understand your logic about the the choice of unrestricted skyline...if he was to observe all this phenomena, but couldn't he walk to a clearing instead making them sitting ducks? I mean wouldn't this raise questions and too many concerns about his choices between the group?
Nigel Evans
15-09-2017 13:34 (GMT)
@Lyndasez - getting too complicated for me, i'm just a simple poster. If you're complaining about too much vitriol i would concur, nothing wrong with some passion but lets keep it polite passion, shout at the ideas but respect everyone's right to post them...
Wrt to your question - "Why did Mr. brilliant leader choose that locale when the forest would've given them break from the wind and a place to secure the stove?!" "My BL theory" has it that SZ was a KGB agent on a mission to examine the reports of "lights" in this area, was equipped with a camera for night photography and he was attached to the group by the government agency that provided permission for the trip. So he would have had some serious influence on ID. On the 31 Jan they got to the base camp from which they would start ascending to Mt Otorten. The wind was very strong and coming from the West. Hence it was whipping up a lot of snow off the back of the ridge and into the forest that contained their planned route. This snow made it difficult to observe and photograph any lights so he decided that "the mission " was best served by camping as close to the ridge as was sensible the stove not deployed but filled with firewood just in case. So that's what they did, they left at 3pm and went straight up there. It wasn't ID's decision in fact he records in the diary (the last ever entry) - "We started fire with logs, too tired to dig a fire pit. We had supper right in the tent. It's warm. It is hard to imagine such a comfort somewhere on the ridge, with a piercing wind, hundreds kilometers away from human settlements.". Imo he's indicating he's being overruled on the plan, he doesn't like the idea of the ridge but has to comply.
Lyndasez
15-09-2017 13:10 (GMT)
@fellow posters, I address this to you in light of Mr. Wolfes request I not do so to him...(so don't peek!) However, I'd like to rebut his recent post to me. Mr. Wolfe your post is irrational...an silly. ------------------ "Lyndasez 09-14-2017 22:09 (GMT) ---- your comments are even less useless than the vitriol of loose shorts --"
a.) Triggered much?
"1) Ssooooo -- what match-book gave you your PhD in Psychology ?"
a.) Don't need a PhD to use inductive reasoning..
"2) what's that got to do with MIT ?"
a.) Where you flew off to here, is beyond me. You compared the Russian students to the caliber of American... to which I posted (excerpt of crime committed by an MIT student) neutralizing your argument that both are super rational humans...
"3) you seem to be agreeing with me on that one,"
a.) not a chance...
"4) actually, they did go off in an organized group"
a.) So?! Where was the threat then?! They weren't equipped it seems to deal with any! Did they even have binoculars, telescope, lighter, how bout a distress flare?Wth????
"5) your future posts -- don't bother -- as I'm not going to waste my time on them"
a.) Yes, waste it on another pill or pint, and RELAX, man...this is a discussion board, you're not gonna be graded.
Loose-Cannon
15-09-2017 11:43 (GMT)
John..... You are one sick sob
Nigel Evans
15-09-2017 07:15 (GMT)
@John - they're not heads? Just folds in the bottom of the canvas slit (imo). Note all the members of the group had long(ish) hairstyles even the men on top. None of them had "spikey" hair like in the three heads photo. Whatever it's a photo of, it's not heads...
Well if the sole source of these reports is from that looo.ch site then there's cause for concern. I try not to base too much on internet sites, a lot of chinese whispers out there.
Nigel Evans
15-09-2017 06:52 (GMT)
@KMM - we've got disagreeing sources over Ivanov, mine is as reported by S. Oss an english speaking russian journalist quoting an interview he gave in russian, yours are simply internet gossip. A problem with the DPI is that it attracts a lot of hype.
Disappointing he's too busy to look at a possible phenomena that is often quoted as an embarrassment of modern physics. Sign of the times, too much specialism.
John Wolfe
15-09-2017 05:24 (GMT)
re: the fake JW post -- I'm guessing posted by that Loose Cannon -- "John Wolfe 09-15-2017 04:29 (GMT)" -- his words - not mine - So we know what he thinks about.
John Wolfe
15-09-2017 05:19 (GMT)
Hi Nigel, I have an interesting thought about the two reports of 1) the night watchman at the quarry / mining site; and 2) the forester. Two things stand out that makes me think these were unrelated to the DPI phenomena -- in fact, I think they were pranks -- let me explain:
When I first read these two accounts I was fascinated with the two stories -- however my fascination was in part because of a mis-reading of the two accounts. I had originally thought that the two events happened about ten years apart (as that is -- ie 10 years -- WHEN the second guy, the forester, started looking for the mining watchman guy from the first account; he had seen an article in the local newspaper -- and never forgot his experience of it) But then I started to look at the details of the two stories and realized we'd all been pranked -- by some Soviet teens, no doubt.
1) -- first of all -- the events happened only about two weeks apart, and it was summer, when school is out, and kids stay up late; some playing pranks. I checked the dates on both reports -- less than two weeks apart -- but it was THE NEWSPAPER ARTICL about the mining watchman's experience, that got the forester's attention, which was in a local paper ten years later. Also -- the two events happened somewhat close to one another. Don't have the books in front of me -- about 40 km apart, as I recall.
2) both events had the exact same appearance - with the exact same "behavior" of the lights. (I don't think ball lightning would duplicate its actions at a different location / or time --- its actions being somewhat random.
3) in both, the big light kept turning off when the "victim" looked at it -- as the light operator would see the glowing pupils and know he was being looked at.
4) both events had "swinging " but much smaller, lights. Like a couple of guys walking with a flashlight (sorry - torch) in each hand.
5) sounds like a fun thing to do.
---- any thoughts ? ----
John Wolfe
15-09-2017 04:29 (GMT)
Don't hate me because I'm? special. At least I think I am, whatever. I have always known myself to be above all others. I like to zap my penis with a cut off power cord and scream FIREBALL at the top of my lungs. Is that normal? Occasionally I venture out to my garden to pick out a fresh big juicy zucchini for.... oops. Have you ever embarrassed yourself by typing what your thinking? I hate that! Its like a constant brain-fart but I find myself liking the smell. Anyways, don't take my posts seriously because in all actuality I'm just an ankle biter with nothing better to do other then the helicopter in front of my cat... Copter copter copter. She loves playing copter, such a sassy cat. Hehe
Have to go for now, I'm getting fitted for a custom adult onesie tomorrow to match my binky and I'm super excited. Do you guys cosplay? Toodaloo!
John Wolfe
15-09-2017 03:32 (GMT)
re: Lyndasez 09-14-2017 22:09 (GMT) ---- your comments are even less useless than the vitriol of loose shorts --
1) Ssooooo -- what match-book gave you your PhD in Psychology ?
2) what's that got to do with MIT ?
3) you seem to be agreeing with me on that one,
4) actually, they did go off in an organized group
5) your future posts -- don't bother -- as I'm not going to waste my time on them
6) have a nice day, Linda
John Wolfe
15-09-2017 03:15 (GMT)
Hi Nigel, re: the "three heads" photo -- if you examine it -- you'll see that the two "heads" on the right are not rounded like the one on the left -- I think what we're seeing is FIVE HEADS -- the two on the right look to me to be occluding / overlapping of two each.
Loose-Cannon
15-09-2017 01:08 (GMT)
Nigels hero Ivanov is a complete jackwagon. Arguably the entire reason this mystery..... Is a mystery.
KMM
15-09-2017 00:43 (GMT)
Nigel Evans 14-09-2017 22:49 (GMT) @KMM - "I argue lots of stuff with him. BTW, he doesn't buy into BL DPI " Good for him, what's his opinion of the three heads, eagle photos and the 2012 pics?
Privately, he told people he thought they’d been killed by aliens in a UFO http://midnightinthedesert.com/dyatlov-pass-indicent-what-slaughtered-nine-hikers-on-siberias-death-mountain-in-1959/
Loose-Cannon
14-09-2017 23:40 (GMT)
Laff... Nigel, not even close.The beat to shit part is correct though, which is why only one is at the top of the list. BL is based on lies and twisted truths with a side order of fantastical fantasy. Your arrogant attitude about it also leaves an awful taste in the mouth. Hork, spit.
Hey Nigel my little buddy... What if your three cocks exposure is actually evidence of a bright ass flashlight?? Whoah.... Entire BL theory goes poof! Perhaps lends credentials to the murder theory.....
You have no idea what that exposure is. Fact
Nigel Evans
14-09-2017 23:22 (GMT)
@LC - so is this your top 5?
#1 = internal murder theory somehow, dunno the details, but they definately got beat to shit. #2 = external murder theory somehow, dunno the details, but they definately got beat to shit. #3 = murder by methanol theory somehow, dunno the details, but they definately got methanoled. #4 - act of god theory, fuck knows how as long as they get beat to shit. #5 = BL theory, lots of detail and supported with photographs, but doesn't include that they got beat to shit.
Nigel Evans
14-09-2017 23:12 (GMT)
@KMM - " "Ivanov firmly believed that UFOs and alien technology was responsible for the unexplained mystery"." Incorrect, he said - "By the way, I do not mean that these UFOs are connected with aliens. A UFO is an unidentified flying object, and that’s it. A lot of data speaks of the fact that [the UFOs] can be bursts of energy not understood by modern science, but which affect life and the environment.
Oss, Svetlana. Don't Go There: Post Mortem (p. 138). LiberWriter.com. Kindle Edition. "
Lyndasez
14-09-2017 22:51 (GMT)
@Sandy Hi, The reason I'm inclined to reject the witness to something they shouldn't have theory is: I believe the area was vetted for this sort of thing beforehand. Secondly, KGB don't play, they'd have set the tent aflame and torched whomever ran out, no going back to check for survivors...
Nigel Evans
14-09-2017 22:49 (GMT)
@KMM - "I argue lots of stuff with him. BTW, he doesn't buy into BL DPI " Good for him, what's his opinion of the three heads, eagle photos and the 2012 pics?
Loose-Cannon
14-09-2017 22:33 (GMT)
Heck... I've already proven there is a very real possibility going directly off the case files, that there was no mass panic exodus from the tent.
Loose-Cannon
14-09-2017 22:16 (GMT)
KMM... Rofl
Lyndasez.... OUTSTANDING!.... Another poster capable of critical thinking that's not cornered themselves into a mental box prison.
Lyndasez
14-09-2017 22:09 (GMT)
@John Wolfe -- "NONE OF THESE GUYS/GIRLS WERE CLASS CLOWNS ! they were undergraduate and graduate students at Ural Polytechnic Institute -- which is like the MIT or Stanford U of the Soviet Nation. (though much smaller and not nearly as well funded) They were (highly valuable) students in engineering and the sciences; some already working in their field while they studied."
Allow me to clarify, some were wrapped more tightly than others. In photos some are clowning around, whereas, Igor appears on the outside looking in..
And to your comparison to the likes of MIT students, I submit this: "On Thursday, November 22 (1971), a former MIT student named Larry J. Harmon entered St. Aloysius Roman Catholic Church in Spokane, Washington - his home-town; He was armed with a sledge hammer and a clip-fed .22 caliber rifle. With the hammer he smashed the interior of the church and with the rifle he killed the caretaker, 68 year old Hilary Kunz."
-- "as for all the talk of love and kissing -- what else do 20'something college students talk about when they are relaxing? "
According to you they would be discussing the Riemann hypothesis or string theory!
Concerning the stove- yes, I know it wasn't erected that night, which also concerns me. Why did Mr. brilliant leader choose that locale when the forest would've given them break from the wind and a place to secure the stove?!
"please note: Igor was chosen for the group leader because he had led groups in that area before -- more than one time. This was a school club."
I know this to, 4 hikes i believe was stated. So? What was his disaster training, think the girls had as many hikes ...and 1 was bitten by a viper and the other accidentally shot.. if Igor was so good at this wouldn't they all have been kept together, instead of splintered off?
KMM
14-09-2017 21:57 (GMT)
Loose-Cannon 14-09-2017 21:08 (GMT) For the record.... Since conversing with Nigel, the BL possibly (for me) has been reduced to #4 or #5 on my list.
Your too kind LC. I've got it below Yeti, and Lev Ivanov's "Ivanov firmly believed that UFOs and alien technology was responsible for the unexplained mystery". Which would be farther down my list.
Loose-Cannon
14-09-2017 21:08 (GMT)
For the record.... Since conversing with Nigel, the BL possibly (for me) has been reduced to #4 or #5 on my list.
Sandy
14-09-2017 20:50 (GMT)
@Anna - You're a smart cookie. I agree with everything you've posted. Good job.
Sandy
14-09-2017 20:48 (GMT)
Suzanne 06-09-2016 13:28 (GMT) I really like Ian's conclusion - he has by far explained what might have happened to the individuals with the most plausable explanation. Whether or not it was soldiers is probably the only "iffy" part of the explanation. It could have been natives or soldiers - doesn't matter. It definitely fits the clues left.
Me 14-01-2016 17:24 (GMT) They were obviously murdered somehow.
Ian 13-08-2016 14:11 (GMT) These were young people full of life and ability, who would have brought a lot of good into the world if they had been able to live out their natural lifetimes. The sheer tragedy of this story hasn’t allowed it to leave my mind for days. At least for me, trying to put together a rational explanation of the events brings a little bit of closure. I’m not saying that the hypothetical scenario that follows is what happened, but I do think it fits all of the available evidence. What do you think?
Sometime during the day or evening of Feb 1st, the Dyatlov group encountered a clandestine testing or training operation perhaps involving jets or rockets (This would explain the reports of glowing orange lights and the military debris in the area later noted by YY). It wasn’t the type of situation where there was a fear of the hikers leaking photographs of a secrete weapon (their cameras would have simply been confiscated). For some reason, the group itself came to be perceived as the threat.
The group’s journal records that as they were traveling towards the beginning point of their hike, they sometimes sung anti-revolution songs that could have landed them in jail. They twice had scrapes with authorities on their trip (once for singing). Also from the journal, it appears that they enjoyed free and open debates about a variety of topics. Later, out in the woods hundreds of km from the nearest settlement (journal entry), they probably would have felt even greater freedom in such expressions. Entering into the area of an ongoing operation may have brought them under surveylence, perhaps without their knowledge. An overheard song or a frank debate about politics, combined with their chance-but-perceived-as-“suspicious” presence in a sensitive area, caused them to be viewed as subversive.
They camped that night on open high ground. When one of the members, perhaps SZ or NYB, stepped outside to relieve himself, if it was clear, his flashlight would have been visible for a long distance, alerting anyone in the area who might not have already been aware of their tent’s precise location. Minutes later, as the group was finishing dinner and drying out their clothes, a small armed detachment arrived at the tent. Whoever it was (I’ll call them “soldiers”) knocked the tent down, fired a few rounds into the air, and ordered the hikers outside or they would be shot. (Supposedly, there were no footprints other than the Dyaltov party’s at the tent, but how could one tell? Surely the Dyaltov group made many boot prints when they set up camp, obviously the rescuers were wearing boots days later when they got to the tent. At first no one suspected it could be a crime scene. It is not just possible but probable that a couple extra pairs of footprints at the tent would have gone unnoticed).
Unexpected gunfire and barking orders would have sent a momentary jolt of fear into even these level-headed travelers. Members of the group who had pocket knives at hand quickly cut through the tent to get everyone outside before the threat was carried out. The multiple cuts in the tent were created in the panic and confusion of exiting a wriggling collapsed tent cover in the dark.
The soldiers wanted to neutralize the hikers, but to leave bullet holes or other obvious wounds would have eventually led to strong demands for an explanation from the community. The soldiers chose to expose them to the cold. Under some guise, the soldiers told the Dyatlov group that they had to leave the area immediately. With great presence of mind, the group leader, ID grabbed a flashlight and his heavy coat as he was leaving the tent. He was immediately ordered to leave them behind, setting the flashlight on the tent, and throwing his coat down, near the spot where he had exited (It’s difficult to conceive of another logical scenario that would explain these objects being found where they were).
The Dyaltov party was followed, but not very far. (Their being followed some distance would explain the heeled boot track found among their own tracks as they headed down slope - No one in the group was wearing such boots at this time). They dropped a lit flashlight on the way, either because they were ordered to do so, or in hopes of using it as a beacon to direct them back to the tent if the soldiers left.
Poorly clothed, in extreme cold, and possibly in the dark, these resilient people covered half the distance that they traveled in their entire day’s hike, to arrive at the nearest tree line. This probably took quite a bit of time, and they knew that with their level of exposure the clock was against them. They set up a small base camp under a pine tree, just out of site of the tent, and together built an emergency fire (an impressive feat with frozen wood, in the cold, with no gloves, and possibly in the dark). Afraid that the soldiers were still at the tent, and unsure if they would pursue, YD and YK were posted near the fire to keep a lookout for the soldiers’ approach. (This would explain why branches were broken off so high up in the tree on the side of the tent, when other branches would have been easier to obtain.) Perhaps they kept a lookout from up in the tree as long as they could. Many or all of the injuries on these two individuals were from exposed hands getting frost bite in the tree, eventually leading to them falling out.
The rest of the group proceeded to build a shelter in a protected area, near, but out of site of the lookout tree. The small fire of frozen wood was not enough to keep the injured YD, and YK warm. Even though they burned parts of their numb extremities, they fell asleep. Either someone in the group was with them, or came back to them, showing care and respect by placing the bodies next to each other. The outer clothes, no longer of any use to the deceased, were removed. At this point, the shelter was not yet finished, because some of their clothing was incorporated into it. The survivors did their best to stay warm in the shelter, but were dangerously cold and heartbroken over the deaths.
Shortly before dawn, the soldiers returned to make sure no one was left to tell the tale. They discovered the shelter, and a hand-to-hand fight ensued. (This would explain many’s of the group’s injuries, including the bruised metacarples on ID and RS, RS’s concussion, and the baton bruise on ZK.) Exhausted and freezing, the group was now no match for their assailants even without the use of their guns).
ID, RS, and ZK managed to break free into the darkness. They made a run for the tent, desperate for the axes or anything to help their friends. (Such a level of desperation would explain why they left the group, the shelter, and the fire, when they were so close to freezing that they could only go a few hundred more yards). ZK, a strong and brave young woman came the closest to making it.
As for the group that was left, the soldiers pressed LD and SZ to death, broke YK’s neck, and crushed TBS’s skull, neutralizing them without leaving any obvious weapon mark. (Such a grim scenario would explain the types of injuries sustained by the party members found in the ravine - crushed chests with none of the external cuts or arm injuries that would have certainly happened in a fall, explain why they were all found outside of their nearby shelter, explain the fragment of soldier’s garb found in the ravine, and explain why it was subsequently taken out of evidence). The autopsies of these group members were the most vague, because the coroners had no choice. More detail would have raised still more questions from the community and gotten them in official hot water.
It is significant that YY, who was a part of the group, knew the Dyatlov party’s circumstances better than any living person, and saw all or most of the original evidence, thought that the military had something to do with his friend’s deaths. In 2008, 6 of the original rescuers and a team of 31 experts came to the similar conclusion that military testing was involved. The official report was that the Dyatlov group died at the hands of an “unknown compelling force”. How could words come closer to summarizing the above, without implicating the party responsible? This may also explain why the military closed the area for the following three years.
Any thoughts?
Robs 04-10-2016 17:50 (GMT) These were scientific professionals not your average man off the street. Something happened in the or around the tent that made 9 people panic and evacuate the tent under extreme pressure. Knowing it was minus 20+ they left without clothing and equipment. We already agreed that they ran from the tent not walked so that already falsified the report saying they walked in single file. I see no evidence of BL or the phonomia of the low wave sounds that "send people mad". The BL to strike in 3 different locations and kill multiple persons is at best highly unlikely. We are missing something if they didn't read the tracks correctly as mentioned above then they could have missed other things in my opinion
CE399_ 19-10-2016 19:21 (GMT) Comment to Robs: Group infighting does not explain the hurried exit from the tent unless someone pulled a gun on the rest of the group. Or say, grabbed Lyuda and threatened to slit her throat if the rest of the group didn't do as he said.
Zolotaryov had the most unstable personal life going into the trip. He was a serial job-hopper. That is often a sign of an acute personality or psychological disorder that suddenly erupts. He was a loner and from a culture that almost required marriage yet remained unmarried at an age that was considered too old.
Zolotaryov had strange tattoos which are not that unusual for hardcore Soviet military men except that they were too cryptic in way that was not normal.
Zolotaryov was a Cossack from a group that was 97% wiped out by Stalin's genocide. He survived by joining the Soviet army and proving himself loyal to them. To abandon your familial heritage and join the enemy has to mean something is askew or will go askew with you psychologically at some point. And Zolotaryov had a very askew career and personal life.
Zolotaryov was an unvetted outsider with a very suspicious past that included World War II service where Soviet soldiers committed genocide, murder, torture and rape on a scale that certainly touched his experience if not fully involved him.
I would agree that infighting could have been what happened if Zolotaryov had not suffered the same violent death as Lyuda.
Zolotaryov was well clothed when he died of internal trauma. The rather mediocre coroners said there were no "external signs of injury" i.e. bruising to match the cracked ribs. This has been mistakenly attributed as evidence that the "overwhelming force" was some mysterious electromagnetic beam weapon.
Every other member of the group had a lengthy history with each other that rules out any of them as being involved in a fatal infighting incident.
Only Zolotaryov could have been the cause of an infighting conflict that drove them to their deaths. His background paints a very troubled person. But nothing that indicates he was a sociopath.
The biggest problem with trying to pin it on Zolotaryov is that he died with the other victims in a way that could not have been self-inflicted. And there just isn't another person who can be fingered with any reasonable degree of evidence. The group was also nearer the beginning of the trip than the end. Nerves get frayed during an expedition of several days but the group had not been traveling in the wilderness as a group, out of contact with the rest of the world, for more than four days. And they had not encountered any significant difficulties that would accelerate interpersonal tensions.
Someone from the outside attacked the group and did so for reasons that were personal and excluded most of the group.
Because Lyuda was so viciously attacked and two other men with her were killed violently, the most logical scenario is that the attacker(s) drove the group suddenly out of the tent.
At some point, some of them fought back and escaped. Some of them were seriously injured in the process and all were too weak and vulnerable to survive which would explain why the attacker(s) did not pursue them.
A person improperly clothed in a storm at -25 Celsius isn't going to survive the night. The escapees tried to get a fire going and climbed a tree to see where they were --strong evidence that they were driven from the tent by an attacker and not a fireball. If they had had a choice of where to flee, they would have headed toward the larger river, main path and their storage cache by the abandoned campsite.
Some of the escapees tried to get back to the tent and some stayed with the fire. Those who stayed with the fire were burned because that is what happens when the fire is too small and the weather too cold.
The clothing was not taken off of dead bodies, it was ordered to be given to the subgroup that the attacker was most interested in dealing with. People just assume the clothing of some of the victims was removed by their comrades after they died. In a hostage scenario the possibilities include clothing being ordered to be removed.
Because Zolotaryov was wearing Lyuda's hat and because his injuries would have left him alive for minutes or hours, it is logical to imagine that the assailant injured Zolotaryov first. Lyuda then, seeing him injured took compassion on him and gave him her hat. This likely took place in "the den" where Lyuda would have been out of the wind and could have survived without a hat.
The assailant then attacked Lyuda, perhaps it was because she showed compassion for Zolotaryov. Her injuries are consistent with someone acting out of anger and not as part of a fistfight.
The assailant then left the group after seeing that all of them were dead.
Doing such a thing was crazy stupid illogical and irrational but most crimes of passion are.
Everyone wants to treat the fireball events seen around the time of the Dyatlov tragedy as special. Sorry, that sort of thing is not special at all. Go spend a couple winters up there and you'll see. I have. And I am not impressed at all by the stories. They are as common as hurricanes in Florida. Sure, some are bigger than others and some seasons have few and others a lot. But what was seen was not unique.
Frank Black 25-10-2016 19:27 (GMT) Best web site I've seen so far with very comprehensive injury information. I don't believe in a Yeti, UFO or any of that paranormal crap. There is only one kind of animal that can inflict that kind of damage to those young people- MAN. Military security, regular Army whatever but I believe it was other humans. I know that it might take some of the "lunatic fringe" mystery out of it but really a Yeti, be serious. Look at the autopsy data, some of those kids had the crap beaten out of them. You have to look at this logically plus 9 intelligent educated young people lost there lives possibly because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Robs 31-10-2016 12:11 (GMT) How many people had BL actually killed leaving these exact injuries ? I suspect none but I'm not an expert?
Robs 26-11-2016 16:58 (GMT) The bodies weren't found for weeks. Footprints couldhave easily been made or covered without any hassle including the hijackers foot prints (if that's what happened) the BL theory is just too far fetched for me, to make them Leave the tent in such a panic, apparently follow them and kill them at different locations doesn't seem right
Robs 28-11-2016 18:09 (GMT) That is a possibility Mick, certainly i think that the group were hijacked by persons unknown
Mick 28-11-2016 17:44 (GMT) Earlier, the group had had an argument with a drunk man who claimed they'd stolen his wallet, so perhaps when he'd sobered up he got his friends to follow the hikers, and clubbed them in their tent?
Teddy 30-11-2016 18:09 (GMT) Another thing - what caused my trauma is high velocity impact - I was mounted in the back of a truck, much like this http://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Krivonischenko-camera-film6-05.jpg the truck going down a mountain and the brakes failed. The truck lost control and we smashed into a rock with 70 km/h. So I tell you - you can not break your ribs by falling down a snow slope or somebody hitting you with a heavy bat. This is what is puzzling me, even if there were people pointing guns at them, how did they manage to inflict such a horrific injuries? A butt of a rifle can cause and most probably did cause Slobodin's skull fracture http://dyatlovpass.com/death#Slobodin but not Dubinina's broken ribs. Zolotaryov had similar rib fractures http://dyatlovpass.com/death#Zolotaryov Teddy 30-11-2016 17:52 (GMT) Dubinina had 10 broken ribs on both sides. Please refer to http://dyatlovpass.com/death#Dubinina I had similar injury - flail chest with lung contusion http://distal-humerus.com/resources/320/gallery/2012-07-24-X-Ray-chest.jpg They drained my right lung for 10 days - it was a pulp. My prognosis was dim. Dubinina had twice as much broken ribs but she didn't drown in her own blood because a broken rib pierced her heart. The cause of death is stated as hemorrhage into right atrium of the heart, multiple fractured ribs and internal bleeding More interesting is that there were 100 g of coagulated blood in her stomach which means she swallowed after her tongue was ripped out. Photos of Lyudmila from the morgue clearly show that there is no damage to the mouth, nose, ears or other soft tissues. If the body was devoured by scavengers, insects or even fish in the water these would be the first parts of the body that would show signs of damage.
Robs 04-12-2016 20:22 (GMT) My theory is that hijackers forced them to leave tent with no shoes and little clothing knowing that they would soon die (and attacked them later). The tracks disappeared just like the tracks from the 9'when they setup camp
ken 29-01-2017 15:58 (GMT)
Anna Yordanova
14-09-2017 20:45 (GMT)
@Sandy.I have mentioned since I started posting here,that in my opinion the hikers were killed.The search group went to look after them a week later.A week is a long time.The killers had plenty of time to cover prints,even mess around with evidence to puzzle the investigation.BL would be a possibility if only one of them was killed,but there is no evidence of storm that night plus the fact that lightning is rare during winter.
Sandy
14-09-2017 19:47 (GMT)
Anna Yordanova 14-09-2017 17:04 (GMT) Violent death refers to death resulting from a sharp blow, stabbing, explosion, gunfire, or the like. The death is accelerated by human intervention. It is the opposite of natural death which occurs due to natural reasons. It says human intervention,meaning that the death of the victims was caused by another humans.
Finally....A person on this site besides the 3 Musketeers & their BL blither which never ceases. Page after page after pitiful bs page.......If you disagree, you're bullied & ignored. Nothing else is discussed except the BL. Oh, that murdering BL.......9 people in .... how many different injuries??? The BL seems to like hands, especially fingers, since almost all of them have combat/fight defensive injuries, skinned knuckles....... Seems to like breaking both sets of ribs and skulls too.....Severing a tongue....Blunt force trauma on a skull, case files state this......Removing 2 sets of eyeballs......caving a chest cavity in.
Igor has many many abrasions and defensive wounds as well even tho he died from hypothermia, many hand abrasions...... Most of them have dried blood around their mouths, their noses, as in fight wounds, again......It states in the case files that it's very rare for hypothermia victims to look like these hikers. Meaning, most hypothermia victims do not have the shit kicked, punched, kneed, hit violently with a baton, blunt force trauma to a skull and almost all sets of 9 hands with obvious combat/defensive wounds.
That BL sure was busy stalking that nite...........
There used to be a lot of other posters discussing the obvious & file stated documents that equal all 9 hikers being murdered by other people. This is a given now. Yet, this site is now only used for this BL bullsh!t by 3 delusional posters, one being an obsessed, desperate man to be known for making up "the big BL theory", and in his own words, he thinks we have "theory envy" or some such bull, since almost all the posters that have been here disagreed with Nigel & have left long ago.
Of course the BL man has been here since inception, blowing his fancied horn as if he's achieved some wonderful award for thinking up such a thing as BL killing nine people at one get go.
It says BLs disappear quickly too musketeers. A lot of them are the size of a grapefruit..... they leave electric shocks on people often....lightning marks.....burns that you can tell come from some sort of lightning...
And did I say that I read that it's "rare" or almost impossible to have BL without some sort of storm?? They have hundreds of alleged victims/survivors that have posted about their own stories of a BL. None of them match even close to the hikers. Most survived.
I feel your laid back, moronic BL mumbo jumbo is a disgrace to these 9 that were so brutally murdered, died in screaming terror and agony, the last 4 tortured for hours and hours....
You should be ashamed of yourselves for saying it's "unintelligent" to believe what the files are depicting clearly & what the deceased pics unmistakenly show. The death pics are horrific, just horrific of their terror.........
The nine hikers deserve to have their truth be stated so they didn't all die in vain without anyone knowing what really happened.
I feel pity for your delusion and for Nigel's false bravado over a really really senseless & proven ludicrous BL pipe dream.
It is clear to see, except for the delusional, and from reading all nine's autopsies & what was written in their case files and in the decades since, in this year of 2017, yes, it's very evident and clearly stated in the files that all nine were attacked & murdered by "people" in "hand to hand combat/fighting".
If you do not support this BL ridiculous sh!t, I can't call it a theory any longer after I did some research on what it is & what today's scientists know and think about it. Seems like it disappears pretty quickly, to have it happen without a thunderstorm/rainstorm is indeed considered "rare" & has different injuries listed by the "many" people that claim to have been hit by BL and survived.
If there had "really" been 9 people, all hit by BL, it is rare & highly unlikely that all 9 would have been killed by it. There would have been survivors.
I have since found MANY photos of the 9 hikers death pictures that I have never seen before, nor are all of them listed on this site. It has horrified me as about all have mouths open wide, as if in screaming in terror, and anything BUT CALM as the jackass Nigel has stated. Calm? Are you really that delusional you will say such a thing just to support your BL blah blah. To say that is disrespectful to the hikers & the agony that was suffered. Their lives taken just.like.that.
I also find it disrespectful that you would post that Zina hardly had any injuries. "Scratches" you called them. She had abrasions, not scratches, almost all over her entire face. Her hands. Her knuckles were skinned to the bone......She isn't even recognizable. A person hit the f*ck out of her with something like a baton. To stop her from getting to the tent. She was doing pretty good until her back got whacked as hard as a strong man could. Fact. Evidence to back this up.
There are other sites where intelligent folks can discuss rationally and seriously the way these young innocent peoples' lives were taken. .... God knows. He saw. He wept. He will serve His justice one day. The 9 deserve justice and truth and they're not getting that here.
KMM
14-09-2017 19:03 (GMT)
Nigel Evans 14-09-2017 18:33 (GMT) @LC - high energy radiation = X rays and/or gamma rays... Ligtning bolts also produce ball lightning.... I've previously conjectured that they could have been unlucky with a positive polarity lightning bolt. But it doesn't really explain leaving the tent AND being kept away. So given SZ's photos i've opted for BL start and finish.
If you've read the thread you'll know i have a degree in Physics btw.
I have a son with a Masters in physics, well on his way to a PHD at ASU - GO SUNDEVILS ! :-) - I argue lots of stuff with him. BTW, he doesn't buy into BL DPI
Loose-Cannon
14-09-2017 18:56 (GMT)
"If you've read the thread you'll know i have a degree in Physics btw"
I'm happy for you..... But how does that equate to evidence BL killed 9 hikers, or you having the authority over opinions? Does this mean I have to kiss your ass, or do you still put your pants on the same way I do? Please tell me your like the dear leader of NK and do not go #2.
Anna Yordanova
14-09-2017 18:54 (GMT)
Violent Death Law and Legal Definition | USLegal, Inc.
Nigel Evans
14-09-2017 18:33 (GMT)
@LC - high energy radiation = X rays and/or gamma rays... Ligtning bolts also produce ball lightning.... I've previously conjectured that they could have been unlucky with a positive polarity lightning bolt. But it doesn't really explain leaving the tent AND being kept away. So given SZ's photos i've opted for BL start and finish.
If you've read the thread you'll know i have a degree in Physics btw.
Loose-Cannon
14-09-2017 18:21 (GMT)
"Lightning bolts produce high energy radiation btw."
Good thing they didn't get hit by lightning eh Nigel. Besides.... 'high energy' doesn't explain what type of radiation. The RADIATOR in you car is a form or thermal radiation. Getting tired of your condescending crap dude.
Loose-Cannon
14-09-2017 18:14 (GMT)
"I want to draw the readers' attention to another very important fact - the description in the media reports of a very important body that, from the impact of radioactive iodine (131J), suffers first of all - the thyroid gland ."
Well there ya go.... Radioactive Iodine. The thyroid gland is next.
Nigel Evans
14-09-2017 18:13 (GMT)
@John - i agree with you, i think Anna is incorrect.
Nigel Evans
14-09-2017 18:12 (GMT)
@LC - the radiation found on their clothes was beta.
Nigel Evans
14-09-2017 18:07 (GMT)
@LC - i'm glad you know what you're talking about. Lightning bolts produce high energy radiation btw. And anti matter.
Loose-Cannon
14-09-2017 18:06 (GMT)
@shitforbrains
We know the definition of 'violent'.... You asshat
Loose-Cannon
14-09-2017 18:04 (GMT)
Nigel.
From what I'm seeing, its all about exposure/poisoning of methanol and a type of irrradiation, OR irradiated methanol. There has been no such mention of 'microwave' irrradiation. Im almost certain its in reference to the type found on the articles of clothing from the ravine 4. Was it gama? Ill get to it shortly
KMM
14-09-2017 17:52 (GMT)
ohn Wolfe 14-09-2017 16:19 (GMT) re: KMM 09-13-2017 20:07 (GMT) the intelligent ask WHY DID THE MANSI NAME THE TWO MOUNTAINS --- DEAD MOUNTAIN --- and --- DON'T GO THERE ---
That has been explained in almost all websites I've read, maybe you should try reading some.
---- why don't you quote a few instead of spouting off about stuff you haven't read --- all the accounts I've read say that they Mansi named the mountains such because of a hunting party which was killed by the gods -- who looked like balls of light -- how much clearer do you need it ? If they had the word "explosion" or "explodes" in their lexicon they probably would have used that word too. ................................................. LC answered you with a link
Here is another: http://survincity.com/2012/08/mystery-death-of-dyatlov/ History began Jan. 23, 1959, when five students of the Ural Polytechnic Institute, three engineers — graduates of the same university — and the instructor campings reached the 22-day ski trip length of three kilometers of the highest grade. During a trek was planned and climb Mount Otorten (translation — "Do not go there" or "mountain, where the wind blows"
You made the statement, why didn't you post links to support it? Maybe something that doesn't contain the words "legend" "folklore" "yeti", you know something intelligent folk will understand.
John Wolfe
14-09-2017 17:43 (GMT)
re: Anna Yordanova 09-14-2017 17:04 (GMT) Violent death refers to death resulting from a sharp blow, stabbing, explosion, gunfire, or the like. The death is accelerated by human intervention. It is the opposite of natural death which occurs due to natural reasons. It says human intervention,meaning that the death of the victims was caused by another humans.
-- could you provide some links to the above (is it a quote? or a supposition ?)
Loose-Cannon
14-09-2017 17:42 (GMT)
"The rapid expansion of the aortic arch (an aortic arch aneurysm) was probably due to inhalation pulmonary edema, sudden pressure spikes and blood clotting after receiving poisoning and a large dose of irradiation (blood, as it were, boils in the veins) and venous stasis."
From what I understand, methanol (form of alcohol) can be irradiated, and it use in Russian oil fields? at the time was extensive. The point is...... Methanol poisoning>>>> blood boil (think Bends)>>> enlarged aorta. There is another long section regarding the radiation found on the clothing with interviews, interrogation quotes and all all the facts including the actual reports that I haven't gotten to yet.
Aortas 3 Times the size they should be..... Fact
John Wolfe
14-09-2017 17:38 (GMT)
Hi Anna, re: your post -- Anna Yordanova 09-14-2017 17:04 (GMT) -- you are right that initially some thought there must have been attackers -- they, at first, erroneously presumed the Mansi hunters had attacked the hikers -- or some sort of fight occurred -- but there was no evidence to support this. This is why they all refer to some sort of :"unknown compelling force" .... and some add "of nature".
John Wolfe
14-09-2017 17:05 (GMT)
re: Lyndasez 09-14-2017 00:03 (GMT) quoting your post -- "... some of these guys seem like class clowns some athletes...Dyatlov I see weight trained and is the Leader of this bunch ... "
--- NONE OF THESE GUYS/GIRLS WERE CLASS CLOWNS ! they were undergraduate and graduate students at Ural Polytechnic Institute -- which is like the MIT or Stanford U of the Soviet Nation. (though much smaller and not nearly as well funded) They were (highly valuable) students in engineering and the sciences; some already working in their field while they studied.
-- as for all the talk of love and kissing -- what else do 20'something college students talk about when they are relaxing?
-- (from the "hikers" drop down in this site) -- as for:
Igor Alekseievich Dyatlov
Born on Jan. 13, 1936, Russian Federation
He was the leader of the ill-fated hiking group; the whole incident is named after him. He was a student of the 5th Faculty of Radio Engineering at UPI university. A talented engineer, he designed and assembled a radio during his 2nd year that was used during hikes in 1956 in the Sayan Mountains. He also designed a small stove that he used after 1958 by Dyatlov himself and that he had brought with him on this trip. People who knew Igor described him as a thoughtful man who never rushed with his decisions. He courted Zina Kolmogorova who also took part in the hike. Igor Dyatlov was one of the most experienced athletes in the group.
He was 23 years old when he died.
-- please note: Igor was chosen for the group leader because he had led groups in that area before -- more than one time. This was a school club.
-- as for Zina'a comment in your post ( "diary entry: "Igor all evening was rude, I didn't recognize him. I had to sleep on the wood near the stove." ....... sometimes the group leader has to tell someone its their turn to sleep next to the stove .... ALSO -- evidence shows that the stove was not set up that last night -- way too windy! -- and no outside fire nor wood to burn.
Anna Yordanova
14-09-2017 17:04 (GMT)
Violent death refers to death resulting from a sharp blow, stabbing, explosion, gunfire, or the like. The death is accelerated by human intervention. It is the opposite of natural death which occurs due to natural reasons. It says human intervention,meaning that the death of the victims was caused by another humans.
Nigel Evans
14-09-2017 16:28 (GMT)
@LC - "PERHAPS GOOGLE METHANOL IRRADIATION. " Because i didn't understand how methanol could irradiate i did google the above. And i still don't understand...
Loose-Cannon
14-09-2017 16:25 (GMT)
In addition.... Imma bout to throw this auto-correcting phone out the freakin window. Its as bad as Nigel.... Thinks I need it to do my thinking for me!
Loose-Cannon
14-09-2017 16:22 (GMT)
Nigel.... I didn't think if was possible for you to be mire dense, I was wrong!
FYI, microwave irradiation is NOT the only form of irradiation. I SUGGEST YOU GO EDUCATE YOURSELF.... PERHAPS GOOGLE METHANOL IRRADIATION.
THE WORD 'MICROWAVE' WAS NEVER STATED IN MY POST, and if you don't think their aorta being TRIPLE THE SIZE it should be.... YOUR A BONIFIDE IDIOT
John Wolfe
14-09-2017 16:19 (GMT)
re: KMM 09-13-2017 20:07 (GMT) the intelligent ask WHY DID THE MANSI NAME THE TWO MOUNTAINS --- DEAD MOUNTAIN --- and --- DON'T GO THERE ---
That has been explained in almost all websites I've read, maybe you should try reading some.
---- why don't you quote a few instead of spouting off about stuff you haven't read --- all the accounts I've read say that they Mansi named the mountains such because of a hunting party which was killed by the gods -- who looked like balls of light -- how much clearer do you need it ? If they had the word "explosion" or "explodes" in their lexicon they probably would have used that word too.
John Wolfe
14-09-2017 16:02 (GMT)
re: Loose-Cannon 09-13-2017 10:57 (GMT) containing several references to the word "violent"
"Death is violent - an accident. SUD.MED.EXPERT OF THE REGIONAL BUREAU OF SUDMEDEKSPERTIZY - signature / REVIVAL / COURT.MED.EXPERT OF THE CITY OF NORTH-URALSK - signature / LAPTEV / "
and -- "Bodily injuries of the soft tissues of the head region and "bath skin" of the limbs are posthumous changes in the body of Thibault Brignol, which was recently found in the water. The death of Thibault Brignoles is violent."
and -- "The death of Zolotarev is violent."
and -- "The body injuries found on the body of Kolevatov are in the head area - defects in soft tissues, as well as "bath" skin, are posthumous changes in a corpse that was recently found before it was found in the water. Kolevatov's death is violent."
from your quote, please note:
--- you all misconstrue the word "violent" to mean an attack (you watch too much television and movies) -- but as stated in your post above their meaning is clear "violent" here means broken bones and internal injuries -- as they then say (elsewhere) like an "auto accident"
--- special note to all: this "auto accident" in no way implies that someone drove a car over the nine hikers -- and none of you are claiming this -- yet you all construe "violent" as if it meant an attack -- it does not -- if a TREE fell on you and killed you -- that would also be "violent" -- but no one would suggest that the tree "attacked" you.
Nigel Evans
14-09-2017 15:21 (GMT)
@LC - "a large dose of irradiation (blood, as it were, boils in the veins)" - i thought you were against the microwave theory? i'd add expansion due to freezing to the list.
Where's this bombshell thingy?
Sandy
14-09-2017 14:59 (GMT)
This morning on my way to work, an orange BL appeared during the rainstorm and bounced along beside me for awhile. Then it was off looking for some ribs to break.....
I saw it again later & it had found its way inside one of the cars & was banging the drivers' skull against the window....
Then it disappeared in a poof.
Loose-Cannon
14-09-2017 13:00 (GMT)
"The aorta (lat ..arteria ortha, a.ortha - a straight artery) is the largest unpaired arterial vessel of the great circle of blood circulation in the human body. It comes out of the left ventricle, its beginning is the aortic opening. From the aorta all arteries that form a large circle of blood flow away. The aorta is divided into three sections: the ascending part of the aorta, the arch of the aorta and the descending part of the aorta. https://image.ibb.co/dp6COk/255px_aorta_scheme.jpg .
The arch of the aorta with its convexity is facing upward. From the bulge go three large vessels: the brachiocephalic trunk, the left common carotid artery and the left subclavian artery.
The brachiocephalic trunk at the level of the right sternoclavicular joint is divided into two branches: the right common carotid artery and the right subclavian artery. Heading from the front to the bottom, the aortic arch at the level III of the thoracic vertebra passes into the descending part of the aorta.
Most recently, based on thousands of studies, doctors made an interesting conclusion that the age of a person can be determined from the width of the aorta!
The aorta in humans is expanded twice - initially to 20-22 years, for the second time after 40 years.
Analysis of the metric data of men of different ages was carried out after studies of the aorta without pronounced atherosclerotic deformation and putrefactive changes. As a result of this analysis, forensic experts noticed an amazing feature - the width of the aorta varies with age.
As we can see, the widest part of the aortic arch in part "D" in healthy people under the age of 25 years should not exceed 5 cm.
Publication. "Actual issues of forensic medicine and expert practice, Barnaul-Novosibirsk 2011. 17 » (SME EM Skaryukin, head of the Elizovsky Interdistrict Office) http://journal.forens-lit.ru/node/453
Perhaps, about this feature of the aorta Vozrozhdenniy B.A. in 1959 did not yet know, but the size of the aorta in the dead were strange:
The width of the aortic arch above the valves:
Kolevatov Alexander 7 cm Thibo-Brignol Nicholas - 8.5 cm Igor Dyatlov - 8 cm of Kolmogorova Zina - 8 cm Doroshenko Yuri - 8,5 cm
It turns out that in 5 children, the Vozrozhdenniy recorded that the width of the aortic arch was increased for some reason. Such dimensions of the width of the aortic arch correspond to the size of the organ of a sick person or person aged over 70 years. But all the guys were healthy and athletic people!
As a result, in a short period of time, the width of the aortic arch could increase in healthy athletes?
The rapid expansion of the aortic arch (an aortic arch aneurysm) was probably due to inhalation pulmonary edema, sudden pressure spikes and blood clotting after receiving poisoning and a large dose of irradiation (blood, as it were, boils in the veins) and venous stasis.
Loose-Cannon
14-09-2017 12:37 (GMT)
"they seem to act as a cooperating group who are forced to leave the tent"
Except that the group split not once, but twice.... I do however like the word "seem" as its slightly less factual.
they seem to act as a cooperating group who are forced to leave the tent and crucially forced to stay away for some time. The latter is one of the key points for the BL theory and imo defeats an internal violence scenario for the simple reason that there would have been a rapid fight with fatalities and a surviving group and they would have returned to the tent for their stuff asap"
Key points for the BL theory eh? There is ZERO evidence they were 'forced' to stay away from the tent. In fact, three of them WERE apparently returning to the tent when they perished. You also have absolutely no idea at what point in time or how quickly said return attempt/attempts happened. Quite the imagination for inventing facts.
Nigel Evans
14-09-2017 09:45 (GMT)
@KMM - 2EDIT : I have yet to see any, as it pertains to the DPI "
@LC - bombshell away my little buddy, my BL armour can stop anything... (you've got...).
Nigel Evans
14-09-2017 09:37 (GMT)
@LC - Several rubbish posts there, nothing for me to comment on except to ask what is it you're smoking? It would be completely logical to assume that the rav4 had also died, they left their outer clothing in the tent. The siberian winter would do the rest.
@Lyndasez - hi, good to hear what Lynda says. A problem with the internal strife theory is that Yudin didn't flag it and he was there. SZ was well accepted etc etc. Also all of the photos and their newspaper demonstrate a very friendly group. It's possible of course for tensions to suddenly surface but i don't see it in their actions, they seem to act as a cooperating group who are forced to leave the tent and crucially forced to stay away for some time. The latter is one of the key points for the BL theory and imo defeats an internal violence scenario for the simple reason that there would have been a rapid fight with fatalities and a surviving group and they would have returned to the tent for their stuff asap. But all of the events seem to show a timeline lasting say 2 hours. It would have taken time to get down the hill, build a fire, the 2 yuris were turned after lividity had frozen in which takes time. so it seems reasonable for say a couple of hours away from the tent. So what was keeping them away for so long standing in their socks? What was that compelling force?
Imo the key question isn't what made them leave the tent but what kept them away from all their gear with which they could easily survive long term. The labaz was well stocked with food all they needed was that gear, but they didn't go back to the tent for it instead built a fire and a den. Finally when three of them did try they all expired within 330m.
Something kept them away and frustrated their return.
Loose-Cannon
14-09-2017 01:35 (GMT)
Hey Nigel buddy ole pal.... You wanna see the bombshell?
Loose-Cannon
14-09-2017 00:40 (GMT)
Oh boy... Your brother Ivanov again!
Acts of forensic medical examination of the corpses of the last four were signed only by prosecutor-criminalist Ivanov and forensic expert Vozrozhdenniy.
Signatures under the act of court. Med. Studies of the corpses of Ivanov and the forensic expert of the Vozrozhdenniy
The forensic expert Vozrozhdenniy on the document did not put his seal, the signature of the third person - criminalist expert Churkina is absent. Acts of the last four are invalid.
What happened, why the Rebellion could not execute the order from above and write to all the dead the cause of death "freezing" - remains a mystery, it is also unknown what kind of injuries the guys actually had. Vozrozhdenniy did not attach to the media report (forensic medical research) photographs from the mortuary corpses of Alexander Kolevatov and Thibault Nikolai.
Along with this, the media reports contain some details about the absence of eyes and tongue from corpses, which gave the tragedy a bit of mysticism. Extricated for some reason in all the stories, together with the artificially created and widespread myth of the mountain of the dead, these "details" fuel an interest in the tragedy and make people feel fear from an unknown "spontaneous force".
(Bat in hand) oh your boy Ivanov is the one covering shit up alright.
Loose-Cannon
14-09-2017 00:13 (GMT)
@Lyndasez
Something along those lines is exactly what may have happened in my opinion. Glad I'm not the only one that sees the tension and Igor's ability to go postal. That boy aint right!!!
Loose-Cannon
14-09-2017 00:08 (GMT)
"Prosecutor criminalist of the Prosecutor's Office of the Sverdlovsk region ml. Counselor of Justice Ivanov, having examined the criminal case on the death of hikers in the Ivdelsky district, because the case of the death of students was instituted on February 28, 1959 and the investigation term expired on April 28, 1959 and being guided by Art. 116 of the Code of Criminal Procedure of the RSFSR, decided to initiate a petition to the prosecutor of the Sverdlovsk region to extend the investigation until May 28, 1959.
In this Resolution, Ivanov writes:
"In February 1959, a group of hikers from the Ural Polytechnic Institute consisting of 9 people died in the height area marked" 1079 "in the Northern Urals , the corpses of five hikers and part of the group's equipment were found by the search, the troupes of the remaining participants were not found. In connection with the non-discovery of other participants in the hike, it is not possible to establish finally the cause of the death of hikers and the perpetrators of this, and the meteorological conditions of the area of ??death do not allow to carry out prospecting works on a scale that would allow finding other participants in the hike. "
Ivanov writes that a group of 9 people died , but the corpses of 4 members of the group had not been found by that time!"
Ivanov.... What a genius! Are you related Nigel?
Lyndasez
14-09-2017 00:03 (GMT)
I've been reading about this for a few days now.... Seen everything from great balls of fire, aliens, rocket ships and yetis...to blame. If anyone has come across a psychological profile of this crew, I'd like to see it. From reading the documents on this site: https://sites.google.com/site/hibinaud/home/akt-issledovania-trupa-datlova-igora and others. I'm leaning towards this scenario. In their journals the ladies made mention of arguing between the guys, before and during the trek. One of them is over which 2 has to sleep nearest the stove inside the tent, since it's too hot it's singed clothes, hair and socks.. The ladies had also made mention of the "red-bearded" guy at the cottage they stayed, that he's not as cerebral as they but he fascinating....and they stated most of the conversation is about love, kissing so forth. Now, some of these guys seem like class clowns some athletes...Dyatlov I see weight trained and is the Leader of this bunch...And for the sake of argument let's say Igors a bit tightly wound...Nerves are running rampant on this day-night about their 'leader,' they joke and taunt about being a bit off course, his stove is roasting them, and they make Igor twitch. Dyatlov is steamed and he physically threatened or ousted the 2, (their coats and boots near Igor and the entry) sent them out where they build a fire till he cools off. Zina took up for the guys...it's inhuman to make them suffer...she got served a foot plant in the side. She threatened to leave and he blocked passageway and went postal. (Her diary entry: "Igor all evening was rude, I didn't recognize him. I had to sleep on the wood near the stove." Igor threatened everyone and they make an escape, high tailed out through the side they cut in the tent which incensed him more and he took after them. They stumbled across the 2 left outside, grab a bit of their clothes, run and stumbled into the ravine. Ludmilla runs up the side of the ravine an clunks her chest, tries to make it up by the guys, misses and came down hard on her chin maybe severing her tongue. After Dyatlov run everyone off he pursued Zina who Rustem placed himself between to keep her from harm... Odd man out, Dyatlov is in the middle of everyone, map wise ...
Slice n dice it...
Loose-Cannon
13-09-2017 21:14 (GMT)
Some* I hate my damn phone
Loose-Cannon
13-09-2017 21:07 (GMT)
Aome people just need to have their twig/berries tied to an automatic garage door and toss the remote to the neighbors dog to play with!
EDIT : I have yet to see any, as it pertains to the DPI
John Wolfe
13-09-2017 20:01 (GMT)
the ignorant see murder theories everywhere -- the intelligent ask WHY DID THE MANSI NAME THE TWO MOUNTAINS --- DEAD MOUNTAIN --- and --- DON'T GO THERE --- ? must be a reason guys --- they named the two about 100 years before the DPI --- so, what's your theory on that ??? are they psychic --- maybe they time travel and no one has noticed that its always the same guy ...............
KMM
13-09-2017 19:59 (GMT)
Nigel Evans 13-09-2017 19:03 (GMT) @KMM - "absence of evidence is not evidence of BL " Correct but evidence of BL is evidence of BL.
I have yet to see any ................................................... Surprisingly, one of the most extraordinary and astonishing versions came from none other than Lev Ivanov himself. In 1990, the retired Prosecutor published an article, “The Enigma of the Fireballs”, where he admitted that in spring of 1959, under “When E. P. Maslennikov and I examined the scene in May, we found that some young pine trees at the edge of the forest had burn marks, but those marks did not have a concentric form or some other pattern. There was no epicenter. This once again confirmed that heated beams of a strong, but completely unknown, at least to us, energy, were directing their firepower toward specific objects (in this case, people), acting selectively.” It is worth noting that later on, Kirilenko professed a lively interest in the UFO’s, and received memos about sightings of unidentified objects from the Chairman of the KGB, Andropov.
Sandy
13-09-2017 19:34 (GMT)
It's really no wonder all the people that used to post here are gone except for Nigel.
You've run everybody off with your senseless babble about ball lightning.
I'm sure you laugh your f*cking ass off at a lot of stupid shit.
May a BL light your way home tonite asshat.
Nigel Evans
13-09-2017 19:22 (GMT)
@LC - please address your observations to "Mr Testicular Fortitude".
Loose-Cannon
13-09-2017 19:17 (GMT)
Wow... Nigel. I cannot believe you utterly refuse to post that sentence without quotations.
Man-card denied.... I'm not holding your purse.
Nigel Evans
13-09-2017 19:08 (GMT)
@LC - leave my pink tutu out of this.
Nigel Evans
13-09-2017 19:07 (GMT)
@Sandy - it's not my mission to educate the ignorant. That's LC's job!
Nigel Evans
13-09-2017 19:03 (GMT)
@KMM - "absence of evidence is not evidence of BL " Correct but evidence of BL is evidence of BL.
"I think his view was a UFO that TARGETED the hikers. " From Ivanov :- I questioned many eyewitnesses who saw this UFO in the sub-polar Urals. By the way, I do not mean that these UFOs are connected with aliens. A UFO is an unidentified flying object, and that’s it. A lot of data speaks of the fact that [the UFOs] can be bursts of energy not understood by modern science, but which affect life and the environment. Oss, Svetlana. Don't Go There: Post Mortem (p. 138). LiberWriter.com. Kindle Edition. "
@KMM... Look it over and see what you think. I won't dare post it all here because Nigel would likely shit a Volvo.... Perhaps have an aneurysm, or two. He would be caught on camera running through walmart wearing a pink tutu (ruffles), flipflops, a Cheeto stained wife-beater and a helmet screaming 'Ivanov is my daddy!'' 8^/ we're talking full blown meltdown of BL proportions.
Sandy
13-09-2017 18:38 (GMT)
@Nigel: I've been reading about BL & it does state that usually there is a thunderstorm. But since you make things up to fit your asinine BL theory, of course it doesn't matter to you what is written. You should watch who you call ignorant as many of your posts point to your own obsessive ignorance. As in saying that "the hikers looked calm" in their death pics. Their mouths are almost all open wide as if they died screaming. And of course, your ignorance in overlooking all their injuries, abrasions, skinned knuckles, crushed skulls, ribs, chest cavity......................"
Never once in all the sites I read did any of the BL injuries that happened to people even remotely was similar to the hikers. There were also "survivors" when the BL incidents occurred. In no way does it show that BL could have been responsible for 9 people's deaths & injuries.
The most rare and mysterious form of lightning is ball lightning. [25] A mix of fire and electricity concentrated in a fireball with a diameter of 10-30 cm, ball lightning usually appears suddenly, even in indoor conditions, during a thunderstorm. It moves quickly for several meters, can change direction, and ultimately disappears sometimes soundlessly and other times with a pop or larger explosive sound. It has a life span of several seconds, and its color is quite variable but most commonly described as white, yellow, or orange.
Ball lightning appears as glowing orbs that seem to occur during thunderstorms, usually following a lightning strike. These floating fireballs shine as brightly as a 100-watt lightbulb; can be white, yellow, orange, red or blue in color and are typically about the size of a small grapefruit, although sightings suggest they can range in size from golf ball to beach ball. Emanating from the fireball are little tendrils that seem to jerk the ball around as if it was under the power of a spastic puppeteer. They move slowly and erratically and are followed by smoke trails that form spirals around them. And after a moment, they disappear.
But of course, in your theory, the BL forced them out of the tent, made them all walk down a snowy slope without their shoes, coats, gloves......with 2 of them in their underwear & barefoot. Let's see....then the BL beat them up, crushed Rustem's skull on both sides, crushed Luda's ribs on both sides, crushed AK's ribs on one side & removed his eyeballs, removed Luda's tongue & eyeballs, crushed Yuri's chest, snapped one of their necks so it was deformed, slammed Zina across the back like a baton/rifle & continued its compelling force til all was dead.
You are an idiot N.
@LC - No, God did not kill the hikers. People did.
KMM
13-09-2017 18:25 (GMT)
Mr Testicular Fortitude 13-09-2017 17:52 (GMT) 'BL IS NOT THE ONLY POSSIBLE EXPLANATION AS TO WHAT HAPPENED AND ALL THEORIES SHALL BE CONSIDERED".
N.B. Ivanov did that before opting for the BL theory....
IDT Ivanov opted for BL, I think his view was a UFO that TARGETED the hikers.
KMM
13-09-2017 18:19 (GMT)
absence of evidence is not evidence of BL
Loose-Cannon
13-09-2017 18:08 (GMT)
Remove the quotations Nigel. Try again
Nigel Evans
13-09-2017 17:57 (GMT)
@KMM - i'll need you to expand on that one, too clever for me, maybe LC understands you :0)
@Sandy - "no thunderstorm", groan, you'd have to read the thread to understand your ignorance here, but my guess is you'll just stay ignorant.
Mr Testicular Fortitude
13-09-2017 17:52 (GMT)
'BL IS NOT THE ONLY POSSIBLE EXPLANATION AS TO WHAT HAPPENED AND ALL THEORIES SHALL BE CONSIDERED".
N.B. Ivanov did that before opting for the BL theory....
KMM
13-09-2017 17:23 (GMT)
@LC... I got the link, THX
@nigel... Arguments from ignorance[edit] (Draws a conclusion based on lack of knowledge or evidence without accounting for all possibilities) "I take the view that this lack (of enemy subversive activity in the west coast) is the most ominous sign in our whole situation. It convinces me more than perhaps any other factor that the sabotage we are to get, the Fifth Column activities are to get, are timed just like Pearl Harbor ... I believe we are just being lulled into a false sense of security." – Earl Warren, then California's Attorney General (before a congressional hearing in San Francisco on 21 February 1942). This example clearly states what appeal to ignorance is, although we have proved that the moon is not made of spare ribs, we have not proved that its core cannot be filled with them; therefore, the moon’s core is filled with spare ribs.[4]
Sandy
13-09-2017 17:01 (GMT)
There was no thunderstorm that nite for a BL to occur. Their injuries were not that of BL injuries.
Loose-Cannon
13-09-2017 16:53 (GMT)
Lets see what type of testicular fortitude and integrity Nigel has.....
Say it.... Type these words in your next reply. Read carefully and repeat after me....
'BL IS NOT THE ONLY POSSIBLE EXPLANATION AS TO WHAT HAPPENED AND ALL THEORIES SHALL BE CONSIDERED"
SAY IT!!!!!! MAN UP
Loose-Cannon
13-09-2017 16:45 (GMT)
"SZ attached to the group even though he had nothing to do with them." The University did this all the time as I have read... Besides, SZ being attached to the group in no way shape or form proves BL killed them. AND, 'if' he were kgb his mission could have been one of a thousand things such as observing the students etc as possible defectors..... Like THE UNIVERSITY WAS PARANOID OF!!
"SZ having a camera Yudin had never seen before." AGAIN I WILL QUOTE YUDIN HIMSELF!!!! "The money they bought was bought: food and various things and equipment needed in the trek, like a first aid kit, notebooks, pencils, materials for warming tents, etc., I DO NOT REMEMBER EVERYTHING. Backpacks, skis, boots, tent, ice ax and other equipment were received at the Institute. https://sites.google.com/site/hibinaud/home/dopros-svidetela-udina-u-e SZ haz a camera..... SO THE FRICK WHAT!! YOU HAVE ZERO PROOF THE CAMERA OR HIM HAVING IT WAS IN ANY WAY SPECIAL.
"Photos of lights that are attributed to SZ." AGAIN... YOU INVENT WHAT YOU SEE LIKE SEEING MICKY MOUSE IN THE CLOUDS... AND.... YOU EXPECT OTHER THEORIES TO EXPLAIN OR OTHERWISE ADHERE? TO THIS NONSENSE
"A planned route that that they didn't follow." AND???? CONDITIONS CHANGE, CIRCUMSTANCES CHANGE, PEOPLE CHANGE THE MINDS, IGOR WAS A RETARD, ACCIDENTS HAPPEN!!!!! THIS MEANS NOTHING!!!
"Deaths stated by the pathologist to be like from a bomb shockwave." LIKE....LIKE....LIKE!!...AS I STATED BEFORE... IF YOU THINK ONLY A BOMB CAN BREAK RIBS OR CRACK A SKULL, YOU LIVE A VERY SHELTERED LIFE. IT WAS ALSO STATED "FORCE OF LIKE A CAR ACCIDENT"... WHERE IS THE GD CAR!?!?!?!
"Reliable witnesses reporting lights in the sky and explosions." CAN YOU NOT HAVE REPORTS OF THIS ANYWHERE ON THE PLANET YEAR ROUND?!?! IT PROVES NOTHING!!
"And then you have all the "curiosities" - condition of the snow, hotspot, burnt trees, tanned skin, burns, three people all expire close to each other ascending the mountain." Oh for frick sakes.... AGAIN... THERE IS ZERO EVIDENCE OF BURNT TREES AND A HOTSPOT! ALL THREE BORK BORK..... AND?!?!?
There are 400 explanations to any given example..... THE SUN DID NOT RISE TODAY BECAUSE OF BL.
I know exactly what took the lives of these 9 people in 1959.... GOD!!!! PROVE ME WRONG!!!
Nigel Evans
13-09-2017 15:46 (GMT)
@LC - Laughing my head off here, any harder and i'll hurt myself...
"Murder theory.... Lets see here jackwagon, the murder theory DOES IN NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM NEED TO INCLUDE, EXPLAIN, OR OTHERWISE INCORPORATE YOUR THREE HEADS BULLSHIT, BURNED TREES, HOT SPOTS, MICROWAVES, COLLAPSED DEN, OR ANY OTHER HORSESHIT YOU INVENTED OR INDOCTRINATED AS GOSPEL TO FIT YOUR AGENDA. "
All very true, but it would be nice to have an explanation for that stuff (like the BL theory does). However what the murder theory DOES have to explain is the fire and the rav4 being killed by superhuman force. How many times has some idiot come on this site and explained that they foolishly lit a fire 1500m away from where the bad men had ejected them from the tent, jeez and with a WW2 veteran onboard...
"Any idiot can invent a story and create details to construct an elaborate story... Ever watch TV? " Well you and your barmy army can't....
And what facts have i made up? Facts like :-
SZ attached to the group even though he had nothing to do with them. SZ having a camera Yudin had never seen before. Photos of lights that are attributed to SZ. A planned route that that they didn't follow. Deaths stated by the pathologist to be like from a bomb shockwave. Reliable witnesses reporting lights in the sky and explosions. And then you have all the "curiosities" - condition of the snow, hotspot, burnt trees, tanned skin, burns, three people all expire close to each other ascending the mountain.
All of those FACTS can be explained by a microwave ball lightning theory as postulated by some of our finest physicists whose intelligence is better yours or mine.
Time to know your place brainchild.
Loose-Cannon
13-09-2017 15:04 (GMT)
"I'm not stating them as fact, i'm stating them as part of the BL theory i'm developing (no pun) on this site"
But yet..... You ARE! Never do you state 'may have been', 'may be', 'could have', 'perhaps' etc. If your keys are a clickin.... Your making up facts as you go along. Whats astonishing to me is the FACT that you think ALL NON BL THEORIES AND DETAILS MUST BE COMPARED TO AND/OR ALIGN WITH THE LIES YOU HAVE INVENTED. Example, A non BL theory does NOT need to explain or incorporate into detail why YOUR crazy ass fantasy shit is/isn't. THAT'S YOUR DOINGS AND YOUR FICTIONAL RATIONALIZATIONS.
Murder theory.... Lets see here jackwagon, the murder theory DOES IN NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM NEED TO INCLUDE, EXPLAIN, OR OTHERWISE INCORPORATE YOUR THREE HEADS BULLSHIT, BURNED TREES, HOT SPOTS, MICROWAVES, COLLAPSED DEN, OR ANY OTHER HORSESHIT YOU INVENTED OR INDOCTRINATED AS GOSPEL TO FIT YOUR AGENDA.
"Unlike your pathetic efforts so far, the BL theory has the uncanny knack of fitting/eplaining ALL the facts. Any idiot can construct a theory that partially explains the story leaving out the bits that don't fit, but so far afaik the only story to explain everything is BL."
Again... Brainchild, pay attention. You made up the stupid facts.... WE do not have to base other theories around them. FACT The BL explains NOTHING!.... You know why??? BECAUSE ITS ALL BEEN BUILT ON YOUR FICTIONAL LIES. FYI.... Any idiot can invent a story and create details to construct an elaborate story... Ever watch TV?
Unreal... Folks.. this guy has ZERO respect for anyone having a differing opinion and displays utter distain and contempt for anyone whom does not tow the BL line and suck his toes. He thinks YOUR theory must explain HIS elaborate fantastical made-up crap. Wow
Nigel Evans
13-09-2017 13:46 (GMT)
"Rediculous how you state these wild claims as if they were fact. Where did you come up with this secret kgb super special camera crap? "
I'm not stating them as fact, i'm stating them as part of the BL theory i'm developing (no pun) on this site.
This theory has it that SZ was KGB, equipped with a secret camera he hid from the others to photograph lights in the sky (probably that had been previously reported by military aircrew and known from mansi legend). So it follows that the camera would be state of the art for that period and SZ would be trained to use it. Hence the difference in quality between SZ's shots and YK and RS's efforts. That this photography was his mission explains the detour.
Unlike your pathetic efforts so far, the BL theory has the uncanny knack of fitting/eplaining ALL the facts. Any idiot can construct a theory that partially explains the story leaving out the bits that don't fit, but so far afaik the only story to explain everything is BL..
Nigel Evans
13-09-2017 13:25 (GMT)
just adding my thoughts on gulags and the brutality of the system, all prisoners in all prisons have to strip and leave their civilian clothes behind, the twist with Soviet era prisons was that each new intake of female prisoners undressed in front of a gathering of male prison officers in order for the pecking order to determine who got what...
Loose-Cannon
13-09-2017 13:18 (GMT)
"And it's hard to explain why SZ needed a secret camera apparently setup for night photography"
Rediculous how you state these wild claims as if they were fact. Where did you come up with this secret kgb super special camera crap?
Nigel Evans
13-09-2017 12:52 (GMT)
and the reason that the detour was necessary was because of the high winds whipping up the snow/graupnel. Just 200m down from the ridge puts a lot of whirling snow between you and an aerial object. The original published route was to make for Otorten in a fairly straight line through the higher reaches of the forest near the treeline. But the high winds coming from the West killed that idea and forced an alternative route following the ridge. This is why ID records in the last entry of the diary "We had supper right in the tent. It's warm. It is hard to imagine such a comfort somewhere on the ridge, with a piercing wind, hundreds kilometers away from human settlements.".
Loose-Cannon
13-09-2017 12:50 (GMT)
KMM... I sent you a message.
FYI.... Gulags name changed and the release of non violent offenders doesn't mean squat. Its well known prisoners have escaped and found refuge or hid out in the backwoods of the urals. These people can and have been in the wild for decades, so even a name change in early 50s is moot. Talk to me about gulags, by grandmother inlaw was in one during ww2 assembling rockets and subsidizing a lack of diet by eating glycerin. Her brother lost a hand for stealing bread.
Loose-Cannon
13-09-2017 12:41 (GMT)
The debate of violence, the definition of 'violent', and the interpretation of the autopsies can go on for an eternity. Can we move forward now boss?
Nigel Evans
13-09-2017 11:59 (GMT)
@LC - i think you might be confusing their use of "violent". They mean not natural, a sudden unexpected event, like a fall or crushed by snow. i.e. accident = violent.
As said MANY TIMES now, the BL theory has several versions and the simplest is that BL scares them away from the tent and the rest is just bad luck, falling from trees, crushed by snow. Although i would favour a BL theory that kills the rav4 with an explosion.
Also as said before if it was a military accident/cockup then there's ABSOLUTELY NO NEED for that expensive investigation.
And it's hard to explain why SZ needed a secret camera apparently setup for night photography. Even why he was there at all. Couldn't be to stop a possible defection, one against several others with knives/axes. He was there to photograph something, that's why they made an uncomfortable detour depriving themselves of a night in the forest with a warm stove.
Loose-Cannon
13-09-2017 11:58 (GMT)
Followed* stupid phone
Loose-Cannon
13-09-2017 11:57 (GMT)
In my opinion.... We are likely looking at a combination of events that killed these people. One unfortunate event fallowed by another..
Loose-Cannon
13-09-2017 11:52 (GMT)
And for the record, I never stated "beat to death"... I said "beat to shit".
We all know 5 of them froze to death and their injuries were not the cause if death. When you don't read "cause if death is violent", that does NOT mean there were no injuries with a possible cause of hand/hand combat. It just means said injuries didn't cause the heart to stop.
Please note... The methanol theory does not explain the injuries of the tent3 or cedar2. I am exploring any and all theories simultaneously.
Loose-Cannon
13-09-2017 11:35 (GMT)
The author has more of an alignment with the crushed by snow idea, although by more of a slide within the ravine.
Really dude? Im finding this in NON rav4 files.
"Taking into account the above bodily injuries, Slobodin could move and crawl in the first hours from the moment of their infliction. The death of Slobodin is violent - an accident."
Nigel Evans
13-09-2017 11:17 (GMT)
"This theory involves no such explosion that I have come across as of yet. " Well how do the rav4 get their injuries then?
Nigel Evans
13-09-2017 11:15 (GMT)
Yes the rav4 deaths were violent (i.e. not natural causes) but not human violence....
Repeating my post below because you obviously haven't read it.
Nigel Evans 09-09-2017 14:23 (GMT) From the official files - "Decision on the termination." - This seems to be the formal closing statement of the DPI investigation. It is the official result of circa 30 men (supplied by helicopters at huge cost) investigating for three months.
"and, as it was established in the subsequent forensic expertise, the leeward side of the tent where the hikers were headlong , was cut from the inside in two places, in areas that provide a free exit of a person through these sections."
"Neither traces of the struggle nor the presence of other people were found in the tent or near it."
"Forensic medical examination found that Dyatlov, Doroshenko, Krivonischenko and Kolmogorov died from the action of low temperature (frozen), none of them had physical injuries, not counting minor scratches and abrasions. Slobodin had a crack in the skull 6 cm long, which had spread to 0.1 cm, but Slobodin died from cooling."
"The investigation did not establish the presence on February 1 or 2, 1959 in the area of ??the "1079" height of other people, except for the group of hikers Dyatlov. It is also established that the population of Mansi, living in 80-100 km from this place, is Russian friendly, presents hikers, lodges, helps them, etc. The place where the group died, in winter time it is considered Mansi unsuitable for hunting and reindeer breeding."
"Given the absence of external injuries and signs of struggle on all corpses, the presence of all the values ??of the group, and also taking into account the conclusion of forensic medical examination of the causes of death of hikers, it should be considered that the reason for the death of hikers was the spontaneous force that hikers were unable to overcome ."
Loose-Cannon
13-09-2017 11:00 (GMT)
"Methanol, at last a half decent theory, an explosive vapour being released from perhaps a rocket launch. It gives you a reason for leaving the tent and a cause of an explosion"
I dont think so... This theory involves no such explosion that I have come across as of yet. The explosion is only needed in a BL scenario Nigel.... There isn't any evidence if an explosion to begin with.
Loose-Cannon
13-09-2017 10:57 (GMT)
"I'm with the official report, no signs of violence"
Nigel... You know as well as I do that each official report states something similar as follows.
"Death is violent - an accident. SUD.MED.EXPERT OF THE REGIONAL BUREAU OF SUDMEDEKSPERTIZY - signature / REVIVAL / COURT.MED.EXPERT OF THE CITY OF NORTH-URALSK - signature / LAPTEV / "
And another...
"Bodily injuries of the soft tissues of the head region and "bath skin" of the limbs are posthumous changes in the body of Thibault Brignol, which was recently found in the water. The death of Thibault Brignoles is violent."
And.... Another.
"The death of Zolotarev is violent."
And another!!
"The body injuries found on the body of Kolevatov are in the head area - defects in soft tissues, as well as "bath" skin, are posthumous changes in a corpse that was recently found before it was found in the water. Kolevatov's death is violent."
So... Your with the case files, but yet you either lie about the contents of the case files, or you do not read them. Which is it?
Nigel Evans
13-09-2017 10:22 (GMT)
@Sandy - "I can't understand how anyone that reads & studies all 9 autopsies could possibly think anything else happened BUT that they had the crap just kicked/beat out of them." I'm with the official report, no signs of violence. Cold, predation, previous weeks strenuous activity, maybe an internal row and a fight, but not one serious injury that is clearly of human cause.
@LC - "Unbelievable hypocrisy!!! ". Nonsense, your answer was in an earlier post?
@KMM - "After this time, not a single record and not a single photograph was found. " - i think YK's and RS's blobs were assumed to be erroneous. Could be correct of course. Assuming SZ's photos are genuine, it's probable that they were KGB property and the police/prosecutor never saw them.
@LC - Methanol, at last a half decent theory, an explosive vapour being released from perhaps a rocket launch. It gives you a reason for leaving the tent and a cause of an explosion. But you've got to explain the time lag between the tent and the explosion, afaik the 2yuris need to be dead for about an hour before turning for the lividity to be incorrect. The vat of alcohol is supposed to be to wash radioactive dust off. Russian submariners were apparently given a ration each week to wash with. Haven't come across the other chemicals being discussed before, could have been some embalming process perhaps, think this is common in the US today.
John Wolfe
13-09-2017 05:42 (GMT)
note about the gulags: --- they closed in 1956 -- or at least the Wiki site on "gulag": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulag says the last administrator was: " Sergei Yegorovich Yegorov October 5, 1954 – April 4, 1956 " Of course there were other (un-named)systems until the 1980's. The map on the gulag page doesn't show any old gulag camps near where the 9 hikers were in the Urals. Of interest might be this Wiki on the Norilsk Uprising of 1953 -- non violent and no weapons : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norilsk_uprising
or this on the political relaxing in the 1950's : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khrushchev_Thaw this is a time when Khrushchev was closing down the old Stalin system of repression. So we are left with no gulag prisoners in 1959, and no motivation for any ex-prisoners to kill anyone. Soviets were happy with the way the government was opening up.
KMM
13-09-2017 04:25 (GMT)
Loose-Cannon 13-09-2017 04:02 (GMT) KMM... Join my board at sksfiles.com under the same name and I'll message you some material of interest. I don't feel like posting my email for all the trolls
Yeah, I got a couple throwaways I keep for that
KMM
13-09-2017 04:22 (GMT)
Done, ....I think
Loose-Cannon
13-09-2017 04:02 (GMT)
KMM... Join my board at sksfiles.com under the same name and I'll message you some material of interest. I don't feel like posting my email for all the trolls
KMM
13-09-2017 03:52 (GMT)
Loose-Cannon 13-09-2017 02:52 (GMT) Lots more information inbound when everyone gets done digesting. Let me know when.
I've got reading time left, don't know if anyone else here
Loose-Cannon
13-09-2017 03:45 (GMT)
Sorry about the repeat sentence in the last post.
Loose-Cannon
13-09-2017 03:44 (GMT)
Just a little off topic, but I thought this was also interesting. Tortured in the cold and didn't confess. Im impressed!
"March 12, 1959
Secret order deputy. prosecutor of the Sverdlovsk region Yu.N. Achimin to investigate the involvement of Mansi in the death of the Dyatlov group Secret order deputy. prosecutor of the Sverdlovsk region Yu.N. Achimin to investigate the involvement of Mansi in the death of the Dyatlov group Deputy Prosecutor of the Sverdlovsk Region for Special Forces Yu.N. Achimin gives a secret task to the deputy head of the Ivdel police department of the Interior Ministry, Major Bizyayev, to investigate Mansi, who might have witnessed the incident at Mount Oorten.
On the basis of this instruction, the police detain several people and torture them in the cold, knocking out their testimony about what they could see or know about the incident, in fact, the police authorities intimidate them. But after a while, making sure that people do not know anything about the incident, they release them.
I read about the barrel of ethanol being used for cleanup somewhere awhile back but never connected anything to it
Loose-Cannon
13-09-2017 02:52 (GMT)
Lots more information inbound when everyone gets done digesting. Let me know when.
KMM
13-09-2017 02:41 (GMT)
Methanol poisoning ....hmm....very possible
Loose-Cannon
13-09-2017 02:24 (GMT)
Literally parts of the investigation that were never made public..... I wonder why
"Kikoin AK went to the search site. A group of climbers examined the area of ??the tent and the surrounding area for avalanche danger. https://image.ibb.co/h5NYuF/lav2.jpg . https://image.ibb.co/cEhYuF/lav4.jpg . What conclusions were drawn by the Moscow specialists as a result of the conducted studies is not known"
Loose-Cannon
13-09-2017 02:12 (GMT)
And.... There is your melted and refrozen crunchy ice. You should recognize the boulder located just east of the tent location.
"4 days members of the route-qualification commission of the All-Union hiker Section from Moscow K. Bardin and E. Shuleshko, along with Maslennikov E.P. conducted a thorough survey of the entire terrain heights of 1079 and 880, the valleys of the 4th tributary of Lozva and the shores bounding it, the pass from Lozva to Auspiyu, the valley of the river.
This structure was under the feet of Maslennikov snow, which melted under the influence of chemical precipitation. What conclusions were made by the members of the commission as a result of research on the terrain and what was reported to the top management is unknown."
Loose-Cannon
13-09-2017 01:50 (GMT)
Its science! Two autopsies!
"The act of investigating the corpse of Slobodin Rustem was written as if by a carbon copy with the acts of investigating the corpses of Dyatlov, Kolmogorova, Doroshenko and Krivonischenko. After the autopsy of the dead was done in Ivdel, the corpses were sent to the Sverdlovsk military morgue, where they conducted a second autopsy to determine the causes of death. The morgue, to identify the bodies of Igor Dyatlov and Rustem Slobodin, the tenth participant of the trek Yuri Yudin arrived. He noticed the dark brown color of the uncovered and processed corpse of Igor Dyatlov, the color of Rustem Slobodin's unprocessed corpse was ordinary. Later, the unusual dark color of all the corpses will be spoken by those present at the funerals of the children. In the acts of SME, the color of the skin of corpses is described as reddish purple, after the morgue the color of the corpses changed and acquiredbrown shade, which was noticed at the funeral. Methanol in the gastrointestinal tract is converted dangerous poison - formaldehyde, This poison was in the corpses. To neutralize formaldehyde potassium permanganate (manganese) is used. When formaldehyde reacts with potassium permanganate, a violent reaction occurs accompanied by a high temperature, as a result of which formaldehyde rapidly boils and evaporates. Skin color acquires a tan color. To treat the corpses in order to oxidize the methyl alcohol and volatilize the formaldehyde bodies, apparently potassium permanganate (potassium permanganate) was used. After treatment with manganese corpses acquired a brownish color, this unusual dark color surprised those present at the funeral."
Loose-Cannon
13-09-2017 01:33 (GMT)
Now this sorta stuff is INTERESTING!!
"Sud.med.expert of the regional forensic medical examination bureau Vozrozhdenniy Prosecutor of Sverdlovsk Region State Counselor of Justice of the 3rd class Klinov Prosecutor criminalist of the regional prosecutor's office jr. counselor of justice Ivanov, witnesses: Gordo, Naskichev
The re-established put a seal of the forensic expert on the document. The case was made, the true cause of death is hidden ... The role of the orderly in the Ivdelsky morgue, due to lack of it, had to be done by Korotaev Vladimir Ivanovich. He worked with corpses to hand over to Sverdlovsk the bodies of those killed for histology (the conclusion of which is not in the case).
His, a 22-year-old investigator, then surprised by one fact - after the opening of every corpse, everyone went about being washed with ethyl alcohol. For this, a barrel with alcohol was brought to the morgue.
Oxidation of methanol in the body occurs with the formation of stronger poisons - formaldehyde and formic acid. Antagonist (neutralizer, antidote) of methanol is ethanol (ethyl alcohol), which competes with methanol for oxidative enzymes and delays the formation of toxic metabolites of methanol. When methanol hits the body or hands, they must be washed off with plenty of water. When methanol hits special equipment. clothes, it should be removed, washed in warm water, and the body washed in a shower at least 15 / pminut.
Morgue of the "p / y H-240" section of Ivdel. Korotaev V.I. was present at the autopsy of the bodies.
There was no soul in the Ivdel morgue, so it was easier and more effective - the methanol labeled with radioactive nuclide, which was saturated with frozen bodies, and which could accidentally remain on the bodies of medical workers, was neutralized with the help of ethanol.
In Ivdel at that time there was Genrietta Eliseevna Churkina, her Korotaev VI. asked to make an examination of the tent. She drew attention to a strange shade of clothes of the dead, hung up after processing on the street.
I was present at the medical examination of corpses, which was conducted by Boris Vozrozhdenniy. I remember well, when they took off their clothes and hung them on ropes, we immediately noticed that she had some strange light purple hue, although she was of very different colors.
I asked Boris: "Do not you think that the clothes have been processed?" He agreed.
In order to exclude the possibility of erroneous use of methanol as a spirit beverage, chemical ink or another colorant of dark color, which is readily soluble in methanol, is added to it at a rate of 2-3 liters per 1000 liters of methanol.
All information from Ivdel ceased, all lived only by rumors. Only now I understand that at this time chemical analyzes of the first 3 people found were discovered, something was discovered that was secret, that it was necessary to hide and therefore all information was classified ...
I see this exposure came from SZs camera. I stand corrected by.... Myself. OMG I ACTUALLY HAVE INTEGRITY!!
Loose-Cannon
13-09-2017 01:21 (GMT)
KMM..
You are correct... The order in which the photos were taken have been mixed and matched over the years. I would assume the investigators knew full well the order in which they were taken and this proves without a doubt no photos were taken after this point. In other words.... The 'three heads' exposure was either (a) done during the developing process (in the lab) to snap the wound/ready shot before access to the film cartridge was possible, or (b) the exposure sequence came sometime before the tent was erected. In other words..... No picture was taken within the tent. End of debate with no conspiracy needed. Facts are facts Nigel. Your going to have to deal with them one way or another.
KMM
13-09-2017 00:56 (GMT)
PROSECUTOR OF THE SVERDLOVSK REGION STATE COUNCIL OF JUSTICE OF III CLASS (N. Klinov) May 28 , 1959 ......................
In one of the cameras, a frame (made last), which depicts the moment of excavation of snow for the installation of the tent, was preserved. Considering that this frame was shot with an exposure of I / 25 seconds, with a diaphragm of 5.6 at a film sensitivity of 65 Un. GOST, and also taking into account the density of the frame, it can be assumed that for the installation of the tent hikers started about 5 pm I of . II. 59. A similar picture was taken with another camera.
After this time, not a single record and not a single photograph was found.
Loose-Cannon
12-09-2017 22:04 (GMT)
I posted a DIRECT reply to that post here... 09-09-2017 16:23 (GMT
Unbelievable hypocrisy!!!
Nigel Evans
12-09-2017 21:17 (GMT)
@Sandy / @LC - "This is exactly the hypocrisy I speak of."
Try and read my posts a bit more often, e.g. - 09-09-2017 16:11 (GMT).
Might help you with your hypocrisy...
KMM
12-09-2017 20:54 (GMT)
Sandy 12-09-2017 19:03 (GMT) Hi all! I have read here where a few of you believe the 9 hikers couldn't have been murdered by people since there "were no other footprints found". It is very possible to brush away your footprints in snow.
I was just posting about footprints to show that none were found around the tent, where I would think would of been the place with the most accumulation of footprints. Whether they were removed by the weather or other individuals, IDK
Sandy
12-09-2017 19:35 (GMT)
I thought I had read this particular book, "Don't Go There" but guess I didn't. I am buying the Kindle version after reading most of the comments. I don't agree it was natives but it appears there's a lot of good info about her murdered by people theory.
Loose-Cannon
12-09-2017 19:32 (GMT)
You should respect Nigel a bit more. The man has been nothing but helpful on this subject such as it is. I check in daily to read about the new discoveries of Nigel and the "team".
Helpful to whom exactly? His followers?
I can see you have great admiration for Nigel but I will have you know, HE is the person who is incapable of respective discourse. The very second I walked into this echo chamber hornets nest, I was patronized, mocked, and disrespected. Interestingly enough, I am one of very few posters who is very comfortable in stating 'I don't know exactly what happened". I am not invested in a solitary theory in which prohibits my ability to rationalize all possibilities. Its that simple. I have noticed the BL group are very arrogant and disrespectful to anyone that does not drink from the same koolaid bowl. Heck, I even complimented Nigel a few time and the action was returned with a high/mighty arrogance in which I haven't seen in quite some time. John is just a straight up narcissistic asshole..... I call it how I see it. Just how I roll.
"User45 - nothing wrong with some harmless banter over the internet. If LC has a problem it's, well lets call it "theory envy".
I do not envy any particular theory or person.... Enough said.
@LC - "specially when desperate." - i'm happy to consider any sensible theory, particularly if it has photographs"
You are desperate in which you conduct your research, or shall I say fact inventing. Grasping for any minute unknown to twist out of common sense and often content to force-fit the BL narrative. Yeah u expect readers to read your post, but ignore theirs.
From what I see, you don't have supporting photographs of your theory either. When in doubt, throw it out.... Not when in doubt, make shit up in efforts to drive a false narrative. I give respect to those who return the favor, you burn that bridge with me and I'll be on that ass like a fly on shit.
@Sandy... This is exactly the hypocrisy I speak of. They will only observe what is visible through a narrow looking glass and reject all conflicting information and evidence. This isn't a forum of ideas and constructive conversation. It is a forum of walking the BL line or face the plank.
Sandy
12-09-2017 19:10 (GMT)
That pic of what some thought was a Yeti, looks like a person. You can tell by studying it that the arms are too skinny to be a Yeti. It looks like a human with maybe a ski mask on & winter attire.
This would coincide perfectly that the hikers were being stalked by people. I thought this pic was a hoax but now realize it really was on NTB's camera. This is proof they weren't the only people out there.
Sandy
12-09-2017 19:03 (GMT)
Hi all! I have read here where a few of you believe the 9 hikers couldn't have been murdered by people since there "were no other footprints found". It is very possible to brush away your footprints in snow.
If you are just 2 or 3 guys and in no hurry you can even step into each others tracks to appear to be only one person. Of course that wouldn't work for a whole platoon. If you have even more time, your last man can blend in your tracks by swiping through them with a pine branch manually. Less effective but faster would be simply dragging a branch behind you. The traces of the swiping will be visible but less than tracks and will also disappear faster over time with more snow or wind.
This is most efficiently done by using snowshoes or skis and moving in a single file. If the elements are with you, wind and snow will erase the trail. There was plenty of time for further snowfall to have fallen & erased the prints also. We know it snowed a lot more as the last 4 bodies were found under 12 FEET of SNOW.
@Nigel: Since you are always quoting from her book, why did you never mention that she also believes the hikers were murdered by people?
Svetlana Oss in her book "Don't Go There" believes that Khanty hunters who had taken Agaric Fly to get themselves in a killing mood killed Rustem Slobodin with a dynamic head kick and inflicted the chest injuries by jumping or bouncing on the chests of Yuri Doroshenko, Lyuda Dubinina and Semyon Zolotaryov. Svetlana claims, they wanted to avoid shooting so as to foil investigators which is why they sanitized the tent area, covering their footprints with snow and making the cuts themselves, thereafter forcing the hikers to discard clothing and footwear which is why Dyatlov's jacket and flashlight were found outside the tent.
Svetlana interprets frame №17 from Thibeaux Brignolle camera as a hunter who was following the group briefly emerged and this photo was taken before the figure retreated back into the woods. This would also explain their choice to pitch the tent away from the treeline. Zolotaryov and Thibeaux were almost fully clothed and wearing some kind of footwear.
I don't believe it as Kanty hunters, but agree with everything else she said.
@Nigel: I can't fathom either why you could possibly think anyone would have "theory envy" of your ludicrous BL nonsense. You should use some of Svetlana's quotes on how she thinks the 9 were murdered because she makes perfect sense.
I also reread ALL the hikers' autopsies & wow, only obvious almost all these people had the sh!t hit & kicked out of them. All those hand injuries & body injuries on even the ones that died from hypothermia. Like one of the experts had stated "bodies don't usually look like this & have all these hand to hand fight injuries when they're found perished from hypothermia".
I can't understand how anyone that reads & studies all 9 autopsies could possibly think anything else happened BUT that they had the crap just kicked/beat out of them.
@Jaime: Research "human mutilations". There's especially one (amongst many) where the poor guy was found deceased & most of his organs were "suctioned" out, amongst other weird, never seen b/4 suctions like that. I do believe at least that that poor soul was murdered by something not of this world. The cattle/animal mutations were done in just the same way. I do not believe other people have the knowledge/tools to perform these exact same mutations.
KMM
12-09-2017 18:53 (GMT)
@LC This is what you have to debate against? They can continue to throw in "could have's" and "might have's" all day long 24/7
"fabric COULD HAVE been getting warm/hot which MIGHT HAVE encouraged curling"
Nigel Evans
12-09-2017 18:11 (GMT)
@User45 - nothing wrong with some harmless banter over the internet. If LC has a problem it's, well lets call it "theory envy".
@LC - "specially when desperate." - i'm happy to consider any sensible theory, particularly if it has photographs.....
KMM
12-09-2017 18:01 (GMT)
On the stone ridges, the tracks disappeared, and below the stones they appeared again, and then were lost. The tracks were very well distinguishable. In separate tracks it was evident that the person was walking either barefoot or in one cotton socks, because the toes were imprinted.
KMM
12-09-2017 17:58 (GMT)
Starting from the tent at 30-40 meters, there are obvious, well-discernible traces of people's feet. Tracks ran parallel chains close to each other, as if people were going holding on to each other. The chains of traces stretched as if in two directions - 6 or 7 pairs of tracks we counted from the tent down into the hollow, and 2 more pairs of tracks were left to the left of them, about 20 meters away. Then these tracks (2 and 7 pairs) meters through 30-40 came together and did not diverge any more.
User45
12-09-2017 17:26 (GMT)
@LooseCannon
You should respect Nigel a bit more. The man has been nothing but helpful on this subject such as it is. I check in daily to read about the new discoveries of Nigel and the "team".
You have a different view than he does, thats fine, because that is exactly what's keeping Dyatlov Pass alive, I do not want you to change your view.
Just saying that we should debate with eachother, but always respectfully. For we are with the same reason here, to seek logic and reason on a very complex subject.
Loose-Cannon
12-09-2017 16:34 (GMT)
"the camera never lies"
Nope.... Just the mind and eyes of the beholder. Especially when desperate.
Nigel Evans
12-09-2017 15:51 (GMT)
Could be the wax... Could be flapping in high wind... Something made it happen, as the saying goes, the camera never lies...
Loose-Cannon
12-09-2017 14:30 (GMT)
First its canvas cooling, then canvas warming?. Whats next... Canvas change?
Cooling, welp lets see here...its Siberia, expect it to be cold. However your supposed 'heat' source is present in the "picture", so your cooling idea wouldn't apply at the time of the "photo".
Again... This is thick canvas and not your daughters tutu. Canvas by the very way its woven, does not curl as you imply. Your again reaching for extremely thin straws. But hey, at least I read your post.
Thanks for looking!!
Nigel Evans
12-09-2017 12:58 (GMT)
Think transient curling.
Nigel Evans
12-09-2017 12:54 (GMT)
"This is defeat folks...." - rolls eyes even yet again, getting dizzy with all this eye rolling...
Loose-Cannon
12-09-2017 12:47 (GMT)
Look at the pictures of the tent Nigel... Do you see curling. Better yet, do you see curling in in the slits you claimed them to be looking out of?.... You know, the ones that were not present until the rescue students arrived and did their thing....
Loose-Cannon
12-09-2017 12:26 (GMT)
"roll eyes" "rolls eyes again. No i haven't read your recent stuff, as said if it's not concise i'm not reading it."
Hi Nigel. Sounds like a compelling rebuttal. I especially enjoyed the part where you can not read something but yet claim it to be concise. Your super human skills are legendary!
This is defeat folks..... Take a good hard look.
Nigel Evans
12-09-2017 07:01 (GMT)
@LC - "that's not how canvas works" - rolls eyes. "I've already proven there was only one tear top/bottom in the middle of the tent from snow weight" - rolls eyes again. No i haven't read your recent stuff, as said if it's not concise i'm not reading it.
@all - As John has proposed the fabric could have been getting warm/hot which might have encouraged curling. Also if this was after one end of the tent had collapsed then the fabric would have been quite relaxed anyway.
So my theory would be that with the side of the tent at say 45 degrees, SZ pushed the lens past the top of the slit but still capturing the curled bottom. The shot being quite saturated from the luminosity of the object but still clearly showing the weave of the canvas both with light passing through it and on the edge of the cut.
Wrt the point that the film could simply be water damaged. The theory is that SZ was KGB seconded to the group with a specially provided camera for night photography which explains why Yudin never saw him use it for recreational photos. So it follows that this camera wasn't a standard commercial device but would have been engineered to a military specification. It was very probably waterproof.
Loose-Cannon
12-09-2017 06:34 (GMT)
Correction... Its more of a chemical poisoning (unintentional) of the kind thats odorless, tasteless, and invisible to the eye. Could have easily contaminated the area by means of a handling/transportation mishap.
Loose-Cannon
12-09-2017 06:11 (GMT)
Im currently looking at the possibility of a poisonous gas release/accident. It fits alot of the holes, but not all. I'll post something I found extremely interesting tomorrow night if I get the chance.
Loose-Cannon
12-09-2017 06:04 (GMT)
In the official reports... Only 8 tracks were found leading away from the tent. The main reasons why I don't think an outside group of people killed them is because of the lack of prints, no items were taken (including money), and I just dont see a motive. The only 'slight' motive I would contemplate is a group of gulag escaped prisoners. They don't exactly like the state to begin with and these hikers were the communist pride and joy future of the party. I can see them not having firearms and wanting to silence a group of fanatical communists that possibly discovered their whereabouts. On other group of folks that give me the willies is the loggers at the logging camp they stayed at..... Those mugs look like they are a few fries short of a happy meal for certain!
Alot of this is the reason why I think its possible for the murderer to have come from within the group. There are several diary entries that to me are clear signs of Igor not acting right, and you have several guys listing after the same gal... Stranger things have happened!
All in all, the BL theory for me is taking a back seat. The more I research it and tue more Nigel and John go on about the fantastical speculation its built upon, the more I'm turned off of the idea.
KMM
12-09-2017 04:34 (GMT)
Daniel : "but they still would have left tracks by the tents as the other hikers left tracks,
There were no tracks discernible around the tent from the Dyatlov group or anyone else.
Daniel
12-09-2017 03:35 (GMT)
Vinny, I wouldn't be so sure this is humans even though I am not putting out a theory of my own. If it was other humans who attacked the group, how come they didn't leave any tracks around the tents? I could see Mansi hunters possibly killing them for their things (possibly) but they still would have left tracks by the tents as the other hikers left tracks, and what reason would other Russians have for being all the way out there? I don't think the mystery is quite as simple as that
Loose-Cannon
11-09-2017 22:38 (GMT)
Why do I have the feeling this 'three heads' exposure is the very foundation of the BL theory?
Loose-Cannon
11-09-2017 22:28 (GMT)
Nigel, thats not how canvas works and NONE of the holes in the tent correspond to the pattern displayed in the 'three heads' photo.... Not in orientation or spacing.
Besides, I've already proven there was only one tear top/bottom in the middle of the tent from snow weight. AND, the student search team dug it out with a shovel and axe..... The shovel and axe cut the holes on the inside of the canvas because by then, sections of it were pealed/ripped back and the inside was then facing outward. Don't you read my posts? Its all right thar in the case files.
after reading and studying the photos. I can say no animal or creature did this to nine experience hikers. I've heard every theory possible and all ridiculous by physics. And this Infra sound theory is absolutely nuts after studying infra sound and the physics of it. These people were killed by other people Russia Army or the Tribal People. The human behavior of the nine experienced hikers prove this over and over.
Loose-Cannon
11-09-2017 19:40 (GMT)
Those are nearly circles Nigel... You cant get circles from slits. What section of the tent do you think these correspond to?
Nigel Evans
11-09-2017 18:58 (GMT)
@LC - fabric can curl when it's cut. No the horizontal lines are illuminated wind blown snow/graupnel passing across the shutter speed modulating as they rotate. So the slit base is horizontal.
Loose-Cannon
11-09-2017 18:27 (GMT)
If those are slits, why are they cut rounded? ;/
Are saying you believe these there slits are whats in the picture, and the camera was turned 90 degrees?
@LC - as said many times i don't see three heads, i see the bottom of a slit in the canvas with three folds and the weave letting light through (difficult to do that with fingertips...). Three heads is just the given title of the photo and has much to do with it's contents as "Jaws", "Eagle" or "Plane".
KMM
11-09-2017 16:30 (GMT)
Loose-Cannon 11-09-2017 15:37 (GMT) There was no 'tripod' and the 'three heads' photo can literally be anything. It's unreliable data, its that simple. You look at it and see three heads... I look at it and see three fingertips in front of the lens from when the developer snapped the last shot because it was pre-wound for the next exposure when found.
Exactly, i venture 3 gloved fingertips of the left hand while using the right to trip the shutter
Loose-Cannon
11-09-2017 15:37 (GMT)
There was no 'tripod' and the 'three heads' photo can literally be anything. It's unreliable data, its that simple. You look at it and see three heads... I look at it and see three fingertips in front of the lens from when the developer snapped the last shot because it was pre-wound for the next exposure when found.
Nigel Evans
11-09-2017 13:29 (GMT)
@LC - atmospheric aerosols? Doesn't explain the three heads?
@all - Here's a video from the Chilean Navy of a "UFO" demonstrating in infra red what i think SZ was photographing that night. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcNALjt6dBA . 3.00 thru to 5.43.
Here the glow discharge is sub luminous but demonstrates how the rapidly it can change shape.
So one photo could be a blob, another is a plane, another is a misty mesh etc etc.
Remember if he was a KGB field operative with a secret camera then he wasn't capturing the night sky for the fun of it. Every frame had to be justifiable, he only had say 33 frames. Nothing got wasted. Imo every one of those photos are shots of what he was seeing that night.
KMM
10-09-2017 05:00 (GMT)
It exploded, yet its still there
lyudmila isn't going anywhere Semyon isn't going anywhere Alexander isn't going anywhere Doubtful Rustim can comprehend going anywhere
John Wolfe
10-09-2017 03:25 (GMT)
re: H.K. 08-22-2017 20:14 (GMT) asked: "John, you seem experienced in camping outside in very cold nights. What would frighten you so much that you leave your tent only lightly dressed? "
-- I don't think I saw this before today so (here goes)
--- if something entered my tent -- something that I just saw explode and injure (badly injuring !) my fellow campers -- something I didn't understand -- but something very physical / as opposed to optical illusion -- something that knives and / or axes couldn't stop or injure -- if that blocked the entrance/exit and I thought was coming for me -- I'd slice my out of the other end of the tent ASAP !
Loose-Cannon
09-09-2017 23:07 (GMT)
Ill just keep posting these until you address the facts and own it.... lets start with this one.
How about Brusnitsyn.... the young hiker from the university with the party that found the tent. SURE LC, LETS GET IT ON!
"Interrogation of witness Brusnitsyn The guys at an attempt to climb the ridge height of 1079 found an abandoned tent. In the camp they brought three cameras, Slobodin's jacket, an ice ax, which was stuck near the tent, a flashlight found near the tent and a jar of alcohol. At four o'clock we were caught by a group of Kurikov with a walkie-talkie. A radiogram was immediately transmitted about what happened to the coordinates of the tent. By radio, we were given the task to organize a landing site for the helicopter landing and choose a place for the camp for 50 people."
Welp.... ya found the tent, rummaged around a bit, found the ALCOHOL of course! next..
"The tent is placed on a slope of height 1079. Entrance to the south. The steepness of the slope in this area approx. 20-25 °. Depth of snow up to 1.5 meters. A shallow pit was dug for the horizontal installation of the tent."
Welp.... It was actually South East and more East then South, but I digress! #%&@ these people are dense... next
"Under the tent put 8 pairs of skis down attachments. Thanks to the dense snow cover, the tent was installed very firmly. Everything is covered with already clammy snow, except for the southern skate, fortified on a ski pole and tied for a pair of skis. Under the northern ridge there was no stick."
Wait.... no stick! WHERE DID THIS BATON GO? Nigel will tell you it was broken to make super tactical BL capturing tripod. As if they had a VIDEO camera and deeded to keep it steady. (eyes roll) lets get it...
"Snow was chosen with the help of skis and ski poles. Ten people worked without any system. In most cases ("things" are crossed out - note ed.) Everything was pulled out directly from under the snow, so it was very difficult to determine where and how each thing lay. "
Did I read that correctly? "it was very difficult to determine where and how each thing lay" Good to know.... next!
" First they took out several blankets, frozen in a ball, then buckets, a stove, 2-3 sacks of breadcrumbs, boots, etc. The things in the tent are arranged in the following order. At the bottom of the bed rucksacks. Then 2-3 blankets. Next were the quilted jackets and personal belongings of the participants. Buckets, stove, ax, saw were lying at the entrance to the right. Here was part of the products: rusks, sugar, condensed milk, untied bag with a loin. The rest of the products were in the far right corner. Most of the shoes ("lying" - crossed out, comment ed.) Were placed on the left side of the tent. Two pairs - right in the middle. The rest of the things are in disorder in the tent."
2-3 sacks of breadcrumbs!!! Holy crap thats alot of rye bread! ("lying" - crossed out, comment ed.)... Ive seen this before.. It means the person being interviewed recanted or otherwise corrected a statement on the spot. (thumbs up). "The rest of the things are in disorder in the tent." Hey hey, HEY! The top brass man-in-charge of the tent investigation just told us there was no struggle, but yet the tent contents are in DISORDER! Leaving the tent in a hurry, a scuffle, are just sloppy Johns... I mean sloppy pigs? Whatever, you decide. next!
"Apparently the group was in the final stage of dressing and preparing for the night at the time of the incident. In the near half found a few crusts from the loin. There are rusks scattered all over the tent."
"Above all things lay a ski-slit cut into several pieces, apparently, the northern end of the tent was strengthened on it. Decide on the spoilage of the stick, given that in the group there were no substitutes it is possible only under special circumstances."
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA....... The stick (ski pole) was used as an anchor on the Northern end of the tent!!!! Actually was North West but I digress again!!! THE POINT IS..... NO FREAKING TRIPOD FOR BL VIDEO FOOTAGE. Read the GD case files!!!!!
"Where the tent was set, were about 5 hours. Nespasha dug hole, and calmly prepared for bed. About 7 o'clock something unusual still unprecedented by anybody has forced hikers to leave a tent in a panic. Running stripped, in bad weather at night from a single warm corner is possible only under pain of death. This strange phenomenon (light penetrating through the tent, sound, and possibly gases)"
And..... there ya have it. This is the first low-level BL conspiracy to surface... from a kid hiker from the university who heard of (maybe saw) Nigels famous "three heads" photo. He was interviewed some time after the incident mind you and wild stories were apparently everywhere.... You name theory... it was the talk of the town.
Loose-Cannon
09-09-2017 23:03 (GMT)
Um yeah.... pretty sure we know the story line there hoss.
Successful cover up? Since when does a funeral constitute an unsuccessful coverup? This very site wouldnt exist otherwise. If they wanted to 'publicly' solve it, they would have continued the investigation in open forum. What is this.... upside down world?
Besides... there is ample amount of evidence showing the hiker in fact, did not spy on anything through peepholes, and they quite possibly did NOT cut their way out of the tent in panic. Unfortunately for you, the entire BL theory is based false assumptions. :/ Thats why my posts have gone unchallenged.
John Wolfe
09-09-2017 22:09 (GMT)
here's some thoughts on the Soviet psyche in the 1950's -- from: http://www.viafanzine.jor.br/site_vf/pag/5/dyatlov_part01.htm
"Those golden years for the Soviet Union were also marked by an incomparable blossoming of sports tourism, especially among students. In 1957, sports tourism was officially introduced in the USSR's Single Sports Classification. The new sport quickly became popular: it gave them the opportunity to visit new places, expand their personal horizons, make new friends and chat intimately with old friends around a fire, sing songs of their own making to the sound of a guitar, their resistance and perfect their physical preparation. Clubs specialized in sports tourism were created in almost all schools and in all institutions of higher education. Twice a year - during the winter and summer holidays - crowds of young men in waterproof jackets could be found all over the country, leaving with their backpacks for the next walk.
The UPI (Russian acronym for the Ural Polytechnic Institute), now Ural State Technical University, had prominent athletes at that time. The UPI is based in the city of Sverdlovsk (now Yekaterinburg), as it was called during the Soviet era. The city was, and still is, an important technological center, inclusive, for the military-industrial complex. In the Institute that excelled in generating so many talents for Soviet engineering, Boris Yeltsin, who would become the first president of Russia, was formed in 1955.
In December of 1958, a group of university students, all experienced hikers, planned a great hiker hike in the third and highest category of difficulty. They would pass through the north of the Sverdlovsk Oblast, seeking the summit of Mount Otorten.
Preparations for this trip extended over the months of December 1958 and January 1959, during which students were still taking their exams. The walk should only be carried out during the winter holidays.
The number of participants changed several times, as some of the students who signed up for the walk later, and for no apparent reason, refused to participate. This is a curious fact, since, according to statistics, on planes, ships or trains that suffered accidents, they did not usually present 16 to 17 percent of the passengers, as was also the case in this tragic case.
In this way, instead of the planned 14 participants, Igor Dyatlov led the walk, 10 people, six UPI students, three young engineers, who only six months had received their diplomas. Also at the beginning of the walk, a hiker camp instructor, the oldest of them all, joined the group, Semyon Zolotaryov, 37, known only to Dyatlov.
During the winter holidays of 1959, the same day January 23, several groups of students of the fourth and fifth year of the UPI left for skiing trips in various categories of difficulty.
The group that embarked on a second-rate trek to the southern Ural was led by Mikhail Sharavin, a fourth-year student. By the route of the trip of the third, or higher category of difficulty, by the Ural Polar, followed the group of students of the fourth year, under the direction of Serguei Sogrin. In the similar routes of the third category by the Ural of the North they left at the same time and, in the same wagon of the train, the groups of Yuri Blinov and Igor Dyatlov. Several groups made their trips through the classic routes of the Middle Ural.
Thus, in that winter of 1959, practically all the Ural was covered by a network of ski routes of the hiker section of the UPI sports club. That was a great achievement of amateur student tourism. In particular, they seemed attractive routes by Ural Polar, which was scheduled a new hiker experience for students UPI: it was three winter climbs to the tops of the hills Sablya, Neroyka and Telpos e z.
The route of Igor Dyatlov's group seemed no less attractive: they intended to climb the mysterious mountain of Otorten, the top of the Poyasoviy crest in the Ural of the North. In the mansi language, the name Otorten means "Do not go there".
The members of the group decided to carry out a third-degree walk, that is, in the greatest category of difficulty, dedicating it to the next XXI Congress of the Communist Party of Soviet Union (CPSU). Not only because it was then a popular practice to dedicate some of the personal achievements to the important events of the country, but also because the young people were all members of the Komsomol , the Communist Youth Union. In addition, such dedication gave the group an apparent official status, in opposition to "wild tourism."
----- you can see from this a number of things:
1) these were highly valuable students and engineers.
2) the Urals were full of student hikers that winter.
3) there is NO REASON TO SUGGEST A SECRET SOVIET PLOT TO MURDER THESE STUDENTS.
4) The last thing the Soviet Government wanted was to hear that they all died in a mountaineering accident -- this was a political disaster! The initial response was to go rescue them (they must be lost) and not to cover-up some imagined plot.
----- the semi-official status meant that there would be publicity and etc. -- what the authorities feared the most happened: they all died in a disaster. The central authorities wanted to solve this -- not cover it up.
----- if there was any cover-up it was unsuccessful to say the least --- see the many photos of the huge public funeral for the group.
----- if there were any to blame --- WHO ? --- maybe some junior party member ? --- They found none to blame.
KMM
09-09-2017 18:11 (GMT)
It was the cold war. I lean to the transfer of contaminated clothing, but still leaves questions. If so still records somewhere probably
Actual photo of two such tests above... All I am saying is that this could very well be the source of many if not most atmospheric 'BL" phenomenon in the Ural area.
Even more interesting is the substances used in such tests.
Loose-Cannon
09-09-2017 16:51 (GMT)
"From historical documents:
A year ago, before the tragic events of February 21, 1958, the USSR launched for the first time a domestic single-stage liquid geophysical rocket R-5A intended for research and study of the upper layers of the atmosphere associated with flights at high speeds and altitudes of about 500 km using the method artificial luminous clouds (ISO).
The essence of this method was to observe the optical effects that occur when certain chemicals are released into the atmosphere. Thus, in the emission of alkali metal vapor and some other substances into the sunlight-illuminated layers of the atmosphere, resonance radiation appeared, the intensity of which at each point of space is related to the local concentration of the atoms of the substance, which made it possible to visualize the spatio-temporal structure of the formed IRF. By photographic and spectral observations of such clouds, one can obtain information about the parameters of the atmosphere-the velocity and direction of the wind, the parameters of molecular and turbulent diffusion, temperature, electric field,
Picture of artificial aerosol clouds, photo 1Picture of artificial aerosol clouds, photo 2 Observations of artificial aerosol clouds, luminous due to scattered solar radiation, made it possible to study the regularities of scattering and transport of finely dispersed dust particles. The simplicity and clarity of the ISO method led to its rapid spread, especially for measurements of wind speed, molecular and turbulent diffusion. Data on wind and molecular diffusion began to be obtained practically in all experiments carried out with the help of rockets, in which clouds of alkali metal atoms were created.
When using different compounds for the creation of ISO, the method of artificial formations could be applied in a very wide range of heights - practically from the surface of the earth (smoke clouds) and up to several hundred and even thousands of kilometers (barium, lithium and other artificial glowing clouds). Nitrates of alkali metals (NaNO3, KNO3, CsNO3), azides (for example - LiN3, BaN6), peroxides (for example - BaO2), alumina (AlO) were used to create the IRS.
In the USSR IS Shklovsky and VG Kurt conducted an experiment on the creation of a sodium cloud at an altitude of 430 km in 1958 and for the first time determined the density of the atmosphere at this altitude.
What could be the connection between ISO and the fireballs that were spoken about in the Urals at the time? Artificial clouds (ISO) were created to study and predict phenomena in the upper atmosphere in regions remote from meteorological stations. Perhaps these atmospheric studies with the help of ISO were necessary during flights of air transport over the Ural mountains.
In 1959, artificial clouds could be observed above the mountains of the Urals in the form of "fireballs".
What happened then?
Are the cases of delivery of a dangerous cargo to oil and gas fields by air transport known after this tragic event?
Yes, they are known."
Loose-Cannon
09-09-2017 16:23 (GMT)
"Q. Why would they seal the area if it had just been murder?
I didnt say they would seal it off 'if it was muder'. I am not stuck in a box and can freely explore other possibilities without a bias narrative clouding my judgment. They could have sealed it off if the surface evidence suggested military influence, some type of contamination, or both.
Q. If it was military testing why spend all that money investigating?"
I have already answered this question.
Loose-Cannon
09-09-2017 16:18 (GMT)
"No need to consider BL being induced it's clearly a natural phenomena."
And if I tell you not all BL type phenomenon is natural?
Nigel Evans
09-09-2017 16:11 (GMT)
Actually her book concludes with a murder theory....
No need to consider BL being induced it's clearly a natural phenomena.
Nigel Evans
09-09-2017 16:08 (GMT)
"The very fact the case was closed so rapidly, area sealed off, and the case not revealed for decades suggests the gov had a motive to hide their involvement."
Or it suggests that they realised they had stumbled across something after they processed SZ's secret camera that no one knew about... Something that could have military potential.
Q. Why would they seal the area if it had just been murder? Q. If it was military testing why spend all that money investigating?
Loose-Cannon
09-09-2017 16:04 (GMT)
Nigel... as much as you may dislike what I am about to tell you.... You need to burn that book as its nothing more then a vessel in which an author has constructed a bias narrative. Perhaps escape from the box?
Loose-Cannon
09-09-2017 16:01 (GMT)
Let me try a different approach...
Have you ever considered the fact the state 'could' be responsible for the lights, fireballs, or BL observed within the atmosphere in the Ural region?
Nigel Evans
09-09-2017 15:57 (GMT)
Err there wouldn't be an official document stating he was officially told to close the case and forget about it?
It's in the book - Many years after the incident, retired and residing in Kazakhstan, Ivanov gave a long and very strange interview to a local newspaper, The Way of Lenin, a substantial portion of which is presented here:
Oss, Svetlana. Don't Go There: Post Mortem (p. 134). LiberWriter.com. Kindle Edition.
Or dig out "The Way of Lenin"
Loose-Cannon
09-09-2017 15:47 (GMT)
"If the state was ultimately responsible to one degree or another,"... They wouldn't have spent a small fortune investigating it... They'd have just made something up."
Incorrect. You need all bodies and to do at least a preliminary investigation to determine whether or not a coverup is even required. You are assuming they would have known instantly. An investigation is required to also prove no gov involvement. The very fact the case was closed so rapidly, area sealed off, and the case not revealed for decades suggests the gov had a motive to hide their involvement. Im not saying agents killed them. I saying there are many ways in which the gov can intimately have a neg effect on the civilian population without intention.
Loose-Cannon
09-09-2017 15:40 (GMT)
""What is not stated is that the police investigator Ivanov wanted to pursue the spontaneous force = fireballs line of enquiry further but was formally told to forget everything he knew by his superior and remove all references to the fireball subject from the official report."
Perhaps, but its an inconvenience that cannot be proven one way or another. He wasnt the only investigator #1 and Im sure each of them had their own direction in which they would have liked to take the investigation. What 'official document' does it show him being "formally told to forget everything he knew by his superior and remove all references to the fireball subject from the official report."??
Nigel Evans
09-09-2017 15:37 (GMT)
"If the state was ultimately responsible to one degree or another,"... They wouldn't have spent a small fortune investigating it... They'd have just made something up.
Loose-Cannon
09-09-2017 15:31 (GMT)
"The huge cost rules out imo a state crime or military accident no need to spend that kind of money if you already know the answer. So the latter is what was going on."
If the state was ultimately responsible to one degree or another, you darn skippy they would close the case and seal it.
Anna Yordanova
09-09-2017 15:07 (GMT)
Hi everyone.I found this article about Dyatlov pass and I am a bit confused.“We discovered that the tent was half torn down and covered with snow. It was empty, and all the group’s belongings and shoes had been left behind.” This observation continued with investigators noting at least eight sets of footprints leading from the tent, all the way to the treeline. Two other pairs of footprints, completely barefoot, were followed to a large pine tree." I was thinking that the investigators found 8 pairs of footprints.I can`t figure out whose are the other two pairs.
Nigel Evans
09-09-2017 14:52 (GMT)
Correction - "What is not stated is that the police investigator Ivanov wanted to pursue the spontaneous force = fireballs line of enquiry further but was formally told to forget everything he knew by his superior."
Should read - "What is not stated is that the police investigator Ivanov wanted to pursue the spontaneous force = fireballs line of enquiry further but was formally told to forget everything he knew by his superior and remove all references to the fireball subject from the official report."
Nigel Evans
09-09-2017 14:23 (GMT)
From the official files - "Decision on the termination." - This seems to be the formal closing statement of the DPI investigation. It is the official result of circa 30 men (supplied by helicopters at huge cost) investigating for three months.
"and, as it was established in the subsequent forensic expertise, the leeward side of the tent where the hikers were headlong , was cut from the inside in two places, in areas that provide a free exit of a person through these sections."
"Neither traces of the struggle nor the presence of other people were found in the tent or near it."
"Forensic medical examination found that Dyatlov, Doroshenko, Krivonischenko and Kolmogorov died from the action of low temperature (frozen), none of them had physical injuries, not counting minor scratches and abrasions. Slobodin had a crack in the skull 6 cm long, which had spread to 0.1 cm, but Slobodin died from cooling."
"The investigation did not establish the presence on February 1 or 2, 1959 in the area of ??the "1079" height of other people, except for the group of hikers Dyatlov. It is also established that the population of Mansi, living in 80-100 km from this place, is Russian friendly, presents hikers, lodges, helps them, etc. The place where the group died, in winter time it is considered Mansi unsuitable for hunting and reindeer breeding."
"Given the absence of external injuries and signs of struggle on all corpses, the presence of all the values ??of the group, and also taking into account the conclusion of forensic medical examination of the causes of death of hikers, it should be considered that the reason for the death of hikers was the spontaneous force that hikers were unable to overcome ."
What is not stated is that the police investigator Ivanov wanted to pursue the spontaneous force = fireballs line of enquiry further but was formally told to forget everything he knew by his superior.
So that's it, either the state got the investigation wrong (unlikely), OR they covered something up because of a state action (e.g. military testing) OR they wanted to investigate something in secret and shutdown the public investigation and closed the area for three years. The huge cost rules out imo a state crime or military accident no need to spend that kind of money if you already know the answer. So the latter is what was going on.
Loose-Cannon
09-09-2017 13:38 (GMT)
Its not my 'opinion'... its the actual testimony of the investigation party!
Then again, I assume thats why you dont like it. Amazing the level ignorance on your behalf. Losing respect bro.... rapidly.
Loose-Cannon
09-09-2017 13:35 (GMT)
Try reading the case files for a change.... I told you I was going to data-dump facts from the case. Im just getting wormed up, and you haven't seen shit yet.
Nigel Evans
09-09-2017 13:30 (GMT)
Try giving your opinion in 5 lines or less. I know it's hard but it's a good discipline.
Loose-Cannon
09-09-2017 12:56 (GMT)
Nigel... Your lies are old but you tell them well.
Despite what you think, I do try to read everything you post. FYI... I correct that in a following post, but if you are too dense to follow my posts, thats your problem. I just proved 1/3 of your BS wrong and thats why you refuse to face the music. Sad really.... Because BL is actually plausible if you didn't muddy your own waters so much.
Nigel Evans
09-09-2017 07:47 (GMT)
@LC - i didn't get through the first post of that without giving up.
" Did he just testify that the NORTH FACE of the tent was torn?!?!?"
No.
He said - "A tent with a windy side was torn in the middle part."
Bit of a difference there....
Can we try and have some more concise posting please? Trawling through acres of crap trying to understand your logic is a waste of my time. I'm not bothering to read it. You never read anything i post even if it's concise....
KMM
09-09-2017 06:04 (GMT)
looking good, LC. Cutting the tent to leave never made sense,
John Wolfe
09-09-2017 04:39 (GMT)
I've already post this once before -- and will look it up for all you later -- there is a good discussion of modern /current thinking and research on lividity marks vs. frost damage -- also there is a rational explanation of Lyuda Dubinina’s missing tongue and subsequent damage on the interior of the mouth -- as well as the air burst damage to skulls and rib-cages and internal injuries.
-- if you are too impatient, I suggest you scan down the comments and read my comments and go to the links provided .
special note to Jamie -- you really need to do some reading on this DPI .
Loose-Cannon
09-09-2017 02:59 (GMT)
Another way of looking at it.....
"To carry out the investigation, the young investigator VI Korotaev. was given a rugged tent, torn by search engines, which was placed in the Lenin room. http://image.ibb.co/mO7xia/pal0.jpg
The tent was in terrible condition, with multiple tears and cuts, in some places there were punctured and burned holes, and 2 large pieces of canvas were cut / torn from its side. It is impossible to imagine how it was possible to conduct research on the tent, after it was ruined by search students.
Earlier, I noted that the actions of student search engines who parried the tent and injured her, no one controlled, so for the investigation it was incorrect to investigate the state of the tent in the Lenin room.
Thus, during the study of the tent, as prosecutor Ivdel Tempalov VI claimed, there were no incisions in the tent. However, it is worth noting that on the windy side, ie. from the side of the spur, the tent was torn in the middle part, and, as Tempalov noted, it was brought at first glance by dense snow. This is the only place where Tempalov discovered damages in the tent, which means there were no cuts from which the hikers were escaping from the tent, there was no tent!
Sections and huge holes in the tent on the other side of the spur appeared after Tempalov VI. He examined the tent and instructed the students to collect it and all the things and load it into the helicopter. The tent was frozen to dense snow, so the students cut out and pulled it out of the frozen snow and ice. Then, according to the testimonies of the search engines, the tent dragged to the helicopter to deliver it to Ivdel for research.
Those who saw the tent after the search engine students "worked" with it attributed the cuts made by the search engines to Igor Dyatlov's group. Then, based on this false "fact", a legend was invented that Igor Dyatlov's group cut the tent during its departure.
In fact, the tent was intact and the group left it in an organized manner. Things were all brought into the tent, and the entrance to the tent was closed. The tent itself was not torn by the wind, and only from one side, from the side of the spur, it was pressed down by dense snow, resulting in a large rupture, the reason for the appearance of which just needed to be thoroughly explored ..."
Would ya imagine that!!..... dense snow build on one side pressing down causing a rupture, along comes the students ripping, tearing, shovels and axe!
I said it once, Ill say it again. For all we know they never 'fled in panic' to begin with and its HIGHLY unlikely they were 'observing' anything outside the tent in whiteout conditions.... remember this?? http://image.ibb.co/fsd69F/dtyjdty.jpg
Loose-Cannon
09-09-2017 02:25 (GMT)
From one of my secret sources....
"Prosecutor Tempalov VI in the presence of AA Chernyshev. and witnesses examined the tent of hikers, compiled a survey report and photographed the tent after all the "investigative" events held two days earlier by the students.
After such actions the students, of course, the tent lost its original appearance, and the consequence of no trace near the tent could no longer detect. The snow around the tent was strewn with search engines, and the tracks were sprinkled ...
In the report of the inspection of the tent, Tempalov, in particular, noted that the stretches of the tent on the south side were intact, while the stretches of the tent on the north side were torn off and the whole second half of the tent was covered with snow. The tent was installed on a level platform excavated by students, with a windy side it was torn in the middle part. In his testimony, Tempalov did not say a word about the tent sections, because there were no incisions!
Tempalov wrote that in the right corner of the tent near the entrance lay food and a flask empty from alcohol or vodka (the smell was felt) and that he had the impression that the students drank vodka and had a snack. This was the first version and an attempt by the investigative authorities to falsify the cause of the death of hikers.
In the blood of students, alcohol was not detected (methyl alcohol - not alcohol, but poison)."
Sounds about right! AHHHH Mr.Chernyshev was there with Tempalov! Lets see what he says....
"The record of the interrogation of the witness Chernyshev The tent already had a group of Slobtsov, Karelin, Maslennikov was there. The search for this day was conducted by Moiseev with the dogs and they found the corpse of Kolmogorova and Dyatlov on the same day."
Great... these are the other fubar tent rummaging students... have to look into them!!! continue..
"On the second day, search groups were organized, and I with the prosecutor Tempalov and with him a man of up to 10 went to excavate the tent. The tent was discovered on the slope of the peak "1079", 100-150 m from the top to the northeast. At first glance, the tent seemed snowed, but when we looked at it, we saw that the tent on the entrance side held on to the central peg and was well reinforced with ropes. Another of its edges, too, stayed on the wheel, but since The middle of the tent was covered with snow, and the skylights of the tent on the windward side were severely torn, then the edge sank and was under the snow."
You read that?? "skylights of the tent on the windward side were severely torn" WINDWARD SIDE WAS TORN So with all this talk of high ass winds etc and statements like this..... You telling me there is NO CHANCE of the darn tent ripping from flap flap flappin in the winds for WEEKS rubbing on god knows what inside?? I call major BS man, MAJOR BS! And dont give me the "oh there was eyelets cut to watch the BL" horse crap.... you have no clue where, when or why those smaller three horizontal holes were made! I told you.... READ THE DARN DIARIES! For petes sakes.... here it is again!
DIARY OF ZINA It was much easier to go yesterday without backpacks, snow, snow, snow, snow on the banks froze. rivers snow snow . Lunch was an hour at 4 pm "After dinner I did just one transfer and stopped to rest. I sewed up the tent. We lay down to sleep. Igor all the time was rude, I just did not recognize him. I had to sleep on the wood near the stove."
This damn tent was riddled with holes and in constant need of sewing repair!!!!! Folding, dragging, wet freeze, unfold, rip, oops.. Its also common to store anchoring gear for the tent folded up with it!
I DIGRESS AGAIN!!! Back to the Chernyshev interrogation!
" In the tent was impossible to shove; all of it was covered with snow and how things were located it was possible to consider only when digging it. The tent was installed capitally. On the snow was prepared a level platform, on the snow laid skiing surface up, on them the bottom of the tent was already lying. In the tent below were laid quilted jackets (aside from the slope), backpacks empty were laid out on the tent. In the same side of the tent (to the slope) each lay personal things."
Right.... I see whats going on here. The items were removed while DIGGING IT... LIKE WITH A FREAKING SHOVEL!! Talking about eye level cut.... Just what is the shovel-head width comparison to those slits Nigel..... Hmmmmmmm?? Think McFly!
More from my secret source... witch is dead on to the case files BTW.
"Tempalov photographed the camera and instructed her to disassemble, put things in their backpacks and move them to the camp ... We disassembled a ten-man tent covered with a hard snow with shovels!
According to the former judge of Ivdel in 1959 Novokreschenova GV. Korotaev V.I. said that ... "the tent was covered with snow, and the snow was very hard. I had to use an ax, cut it with an ax and, of course, crippled it."
At the same time, there was no system to free the tent from snow. First they took out a few stale blankets, then buckets, a stove, two or three sacks of biscuits, shoes and other things. Things were stacked in backpacks, and dragged the tent to the search engine camp. Naturally, after such manipulations on the tent, sections and torn pieces could appear."
BINGO..... a complete mishandling of evidence. NOW YOU TELL ME NIGEL... If this tent was flap flap flappin in gale force winds for weeks and a chunk tore back starting at an existing tear/hole OR a student (amateurs first on scene) ripped it open (you admitted they did) and the section was PEALED BACK..... You get after that tent digging it out of hard snow with an AXE AND SHOVEL..... THE CUTS WILL NOW BE ON THE INSIDE OF THE CANVAS THAT WAS PEALED BACK AND COVERED IN SNOW!!!! WOW... Freaking amazeballs!!!
Loose-Cannon
09-09-2017 01:07 (GMT)
Correction...
"stretches of the tent from the north side were torn off and the whole second half of the tent was covered with snow"
Ok.... North E side torn, my mistake. Your safe on this one Nigel. For now. Rofl.
Loose-Cannon
09-09-2017 01:01 (GMT)
How about Brusnitsyn.... the young hiker from the university with the party that found the tent. SURE LC, LETS GET IT ON!
"Interrogation of witness Brusnitsyn The guys at an attempt to climb the ridge height of 1079 found an abandoned tent. In the camp they brought three cameras, Slobodin's jacket, an ice ax, which was stuck near the tent, a flashlight found near the tent and a jar of alcohol. At four o'clock we were caught by a group of Kurikov with a walkie-talkie. A radiogram was immediately transmitted about what happened to the coordinates of the tent. By radio, we were given the task to organize a landing site for the helicopter landing and choose a place for the camp for 50 people."
Welp.... ya found the tent, rummaged around a bit, found the ALCOHOL of course! next..
"The tent is placed on a slope of height 1079. Entrance to the south. The steepness of the slope in this area approx. 20-25 °. Depth of snow up to 1.5 meters. A shallow pit was dug for the horizontal installation of the tent."
Welp.... It was actually South East and more East then South, but I digress! #%&@ these people are dense... next
"Under the tent put 8 pairs of skis down attachments. Thanks to the dense snow cover, the tent was installed very firmly. Everything is covered with already clammy snow, except for the southern skate, fortified on a ski pole and tied for a pair of skis. Under the northern ridge there was no stick."
Wait.... no stick! WHERE DID THIS BATON GO? Nigel will tell you it was broken to make super tactical BL capturing tripod. As if they had a VIDEO camera and deeded to keep it steady. (eyes roll) lets get it...
"Snow was chosen with the help of skis and ski poles. Ten people worked without any system. In most cases ("things" are crossed out - note ed.) Everything was pulled out directly from under the snow, so it was very difficult to determine where and how each thing lay. "
Did I read that correctly? "it was very difficult to determine where and how each thing lay" Good to know.... next!
" First they took out several blankets, frozen in a ball, then buckets, a stove, 2-3 sacks of breadcrumbs, boots, etc. The things in the tent are arranged in the following order. At the bottom of the bed rucksacks. Then 2-3 blankets. Next were the quilted jackets and personal belongings of the participants. Buckets, stove, ax, saw were lying at the entrance to the right. Here was part of the products: rusks, sugar, condensed milk, untied bag with a loin. The rest of the products were in the far right corner. Most of the shoes ("lying" - crossed out, comment ed.) Were placed on the left side of the tent. Two pairs - right in the middle. The rest of the things are in disorder in the tent."
2-3 sacks of breadcrumbs!!! Holy crap thats alot of rye bread! ("lying" - crossed out, comment ed.)... Ive seen this before.. It means the person being interviewed recanted or otherwise corrected a statement on the spot. (thumbs up). "The rest of the things are in disorder in the tent." Hey hey, HEY! The top brass man-in-charge of the tent investigation just told us there was no struggle, but yet the tent contents are in DISORDER! Leaving the tent in a hurry, a scuffle, are just sloppy Johns... I mean sloppy pigs? Whatever, you decide. next!
"Apparently the group was in the final stage of dressing and preparing for the night at the time of the incident. In the near half found a few crusts from the loin. There are rusks scattered all over the tent."
"Above all things lay a ski-slit cut into several pieces, apparently, the northern end of the tent was strengthened on it. Decide on the spoilage of the stick, given that in the group there were no substitutes it is possible only under special circumstances."
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA....... The stick (ski pole) was used as an anchor on the Northern end of the tent!!!! Actually was North West but I digress again!!! THE POINT IS..... NO FREAKING TRIPOD FOR BL VIDEO FOOTAGE. Read the GD case files!!!!!
"Where the tent was set, were about 5 hours. Nespasha dug hole, and calmly prepared for bed. About 7 o'clock something unusual still unprecedented by anybody has forced hikers to leave a tent in a panic. Running stripped, in bad weather at night from a single warm corner is possible only under pain of death. This strange phenomenon (light penetrating through the tent, sound, and possibly gases)"
And..... there ya have it. This is the first low-level BL conspiracy to surface... from a kid hiker from the university who heard of (maybe saw) Nigels famous "three heads" photo. He was interviewed some time after the incident mind you and wild stories were apparently everywhere.... You name theory... it was the talk of the town.
Loose-Cannon
09-09-2017 00:12 (GMT)
Welp... here comes inbound.
From the official case files. You like Maslennikov Eugene Polikarpovich dont you?
"Protocol of interrogation of the witness Maslennikova EP Most of the tent was occupied by Brusnitsyn, who will tell about the location of things in it better than me. reading that there was a prosecutor of Tempalov at the tent and a sufficient number of people I went down to the search group, tk. It was necessary to activate the search for people. "
Ok, Seems this guy is not the droid we are looking for in regards to whats in the tent... GREAT! ...... continue
"There were 9 backpacks in the Dyatlov's tent, 10 pairs of lies, of which 9 pairs under the tent floor, 8 pairs of shoes, 3.5 pairs of boots (7 pcs.), Several tealings and other property. When the inspection of the tent was over, we dragged her to the helipad at a distance of 600-700 meters. "
DRAGGING! REALLY!?!? Meh, lets go find this Tempalov guy.
"Interrogation of witness Tempalov V.I. Inspection of the tent showed me that it contains all the personal belongings of the students. The tent was stretched on skis and sticks, hammered in the snow, its entrance was turned to the south, and from this side the stretches were intact, and the stretches of the tent from the north side were torn off and the whole second half of the tent was covered with snow. The tent had an ice ax, an extra pair of skis. On the tent was a Chinese lantern in the unlit state. 9 backpacks, 9 pairs of skis were found in the tent, all of them were under the tent floor, 8 pairs of shoes, 3.5 pairs of boots, quilted jackets and many biscuits, half a sack of sugar, a large number of concentrates, cereals, soups, etc. , cocoa, axes, saw, cameras, diaries of students, documents and money. At first glance, the tent was covered with snow. It was installed on a platform leveled by the students dug out. A tent with a windy side was torn in the middle part. The bottom of the tent was covered with padded jackets, backpacks and personal belongings of students. In the right corner, near the entrance there was a part of the products: cans of condensed milk, 100 grams of sliced ??fat, rusks, sugar, a flask empty from alcohol or vodka, the smell was felt, just like a jar with a drink (poured?) Prepared for consumption, the cocoa was diluted with water and naturally froze, a large knife was found near the bacon of a sliced ??me"
HOLY SHITBALLS!!.... Did he just testify that the NORTH FACE of the tent was torn?!?!? I thought the ENTIRE BL theory revolved around them escaping to the treeline to the NORTH to escape the BL to the SOUTH!!!! Your BL theory just took a gigantic shit in one sentence! MANY BISCUITS!... two sacks to be exact. but I digres ... lets continue..
"I installed the knife belonged to the students. I got the impression that the students drank vodka and had a snack. Boots there were in the tent and put near the feet of the students so it seemed to me, there were 7 pieces of felt boots immediately. In the case in the middle of the tent a stove was found. And many other personal belongings of students and public equipment, there were buckets, axes, mugs, cups in the tent. At the top of the tent a Chinese flashlight was found, which was closer to the entrance, near the exit from the tent I found a trace of the fact that one of the students had recovered easily. This track is old."
Wait wait wait..... lets look at this sentence again. "In the CASE in the MIDDLE of the tent a stove was found" WOOT! lts continue..
"Without me no one came to the tent and the tracks near the tent were not ours. I have not established any traces of struggle in the tent. If there was any struggle, it would be natural, something would be installed by me. From this point of view, I carefully searched and inspected the tent, but there were no signs of struggle, at least nothing said about it. The tent was located on the slope of the mountain. Descent from the tent steep and on the nast (dense snow). The descent is 2.5 km. There is no forest on the slope of the mountain, except for rare birches closer to the river. This descent, where in essence there are frequent winds."
Only one on site (at the time he inspected), no struggle (that he could tell), and BIG winds.. gotcha.... carry on.
"At the bottom of the tent 50-60 from us on the slope, I found 8 pairs of traces of people that were carefully examined, but they were deformed due to winds and temperature fluctuations. I failed to establish the ninth track and it was not there. Traces I photographed. They walked down from the tent. Traces showed me that people were walking normally down the mountain. Traces were visible only in the 50 meter section, there were no further them since the lower the mountain the more snow. At the bottom of the mountain flows a river up to 70 cm deep, as if from a ravine in which the depth of snow in places reaches 2 to 6 meters in thickness."
So..... 8 Sets, 9th was not there, and they walked. Awesome! Weird, but Awesome-sauce. next!
"From documents, diaries of students, records of the latter it is clear to me that the students died on February 1 or 2, 1959. From a number of testimonies of witnesses it is clear to me that these days in the mountains and not only in the mountains there was a strong wind and it was very cold . Based on the discovered corpses (in the number of five people), the situation in which they were to me it becomes clear that all the students were frozen, the attack on them is excluded. It's my personal opinion"
Cold as shit and windy as all get-out.... Gotcha! Not attacked... personal opinion.... Great... opinions... Just finds 5 pop-sickle cadavers and makes an assessment. Gee.... I cant help but wonder why no evidence of an attack was looked into on the scene! Mr.Jackwagon saw 5 frozen bodies covered in snow and had his mind made up. COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE!!!! lets go..
"The final opinion can only develop after the discovery and inspection of all other students, i.e. 4 more people."
Oh.... now you start to think about the dumb shit you just said....... sure. Moving on now...
"All students could leave their tent only because in the strong wind someone of them at the time when he left the tent blew the wind and this man raised a cry. The student was frightened, rushed out of the tent and were blown away from her by the wind, but with (...?) -windra they could not get into the tent again. And they froze. Of course, such a conclusion can only be made on the basis of the five corpses of students found. What is the cause of the death of the other 4 students I do not know, because their corpses have not been found yet. If these 4 students die due to freezing, the above version will be correct."
Oh whateva... the translation dates a dump sometimes, but it sounded like another Nigel (I know exactly what was said and done) hub hub comment. Lets see that last part again.
" What is the cause of the death of the other 4 students I do not know, because their corpses have not been found yet. If these 4 students die due to freezing, the above version will be correct."
BINGO.... you were wrong-duck-dong.
What shall we look into next? Ill find something. TONS to look through.
@John.... Go intercourse yourself with your garden cucumber.
Nigel Evans
08-09-2017 23:33 (GMT)
Skulls can fracture in deep freeze (-18c) apparently. The DPI bodies will have easily exceeded this.
Probably applies more to NTB than RS as he had associated haemorrhaging.
Nigel Evans
08-09-2017 21:53 (GMT)
@Jaime - i wasn't but this guy was later on :- "February 27 Maslennikov himself arrived at the tent and started to inspect it with great and meticulous care. A stove lay next to the entrance of the tent, but it was disassembled and in [its] cover. There was a single log outside the tent. We also noticed, almost all their things were in place: a bucket, axes, and cups. In his later testimony, Sharavin added that the stove was full of unburnt wood.
Oss, Svetlana. Don't Go There: Post Mortem (pp. 49-50). LiberWriter.com. Kindle Edition. "
Jaime
08-09-2017 21:45 (GMT)
Nigel, it wasn't? Didn't know you were in tent. The theory is that there were embers that were still live and somehow disturbed when stove was either being disassembled, was knocked over, etc. How people take a slight unknown and come to aliens or fret over a missing tongue baffles me. p.s. Amelia Earhardt likely died at sea
Nigel Evans
08-09-2017 21:35 (GMT)
@LC - "I have completely debunked the "hotspot" and you damn well know it." Only in your head...
Nigel Evans
08-09-2017 21:34 (GMT)
@Jaime - what smoke, the stove wasn't in use?
Jaime
08-09-2017 21:27 (GMT)
Or, in my opinion more likely, they cut slits to let smoke out of tent. The only mystery here is why they left the tent. Everything else can likely be explained if one isn't donning a foil hat.
Loose-Cannon
08-09-2017 21:25 (GMT)
"around the hotspot" ROFLMFAO
I have completely debunked the "hotspot" and you damn well know it.
"I don't accept that Zina was hit by a baton, THEY were dragging a sled for days over rough ground with a rope tied around their waist..."
Hope you don't mind, I made a single word in your statement above stand out. You idea is crap because Zina is the ONLY person to have this injury. In addition, YOU READ THE DAMN REPORTS..IT WAS NOT A DAYS OLD BRUISE.
Thats fine... I'll be home in a few hrs and burry this thread with information from a tower PC.
Nigel Evans
08-09-2017 21:15 (GMT)
@Jaime - They cut slits to see something out there in the dark". Bit of an oxymoron. Not really, it was a dark night so whatever they were looking at must of been illuminated.
"IF they were looking out at something that scared them WHY would the go TO that thing." Maybe it was coming to them? The tracks suggest they went around the hotspot.
Jaime
08-09-2017 21:02 (GMT)
Nigel, really? "They cut slits to see something out there in the dark". Bit of an oxymoron. They left the tent because something in the tent compelled them to do so. IF they were looking out at something that scared them WHY would the go TO that thing. Waiting for one of you to remind us they were on a (snow covered) grassy knoll. Newsflash: Oswald killed JFK, there is no Yeti or Loch Ness monster, no aliens have visited us and, sadly, Elvis is dead.
Nigel Evans
08-09-2017 20:53 (GMT)
@KMM - "The final question that has to be answered is: why was one of the group member’s tongue missing? Opinions differ regarding the cause of the disturbing absence of Lyuda Dubinina’s tongue. Some say the tongue was eaten by rodents; others argue it was torn or cut out. Vozrozhdenniy himself offered a possible explanation when he wrote in his autopsy report: [There is] damage to the soft tissue of the head, and ‘bath skin’ wrinkling to the extremities are the post-mortem changes (rot and decay) of Ms. Dubinina’s corpse, which was under water before it was found. One might assume that ‘soft tissue of the head’ also means tongue. Every autopsy transcript includes a description of the external and internal parts of the body. The missing tongue was already obvious during the external examination. While the autopsy was performed, the coroner also found several other strange things, which were impossible to observe before cutting the throat open. These were The diaphragm of the mouth and tongue was absent. The upper edge of the sublingual bone was bared. The diaphragm of the mouth is mostly a mylohyoid muscle. It depresses the mandible and elevates the sublingual bone (hyoid), the floor of the oral cavity, and the tongue. It is attached to the hyoid. The coroner Vozrozhdenniy saw that the sublingual bone was bared and the mylohyoid muscle was missing only after he performed his internal examination. This assumes that the skin on the throat was intact and no inner injuries were seen: ‘The neck is long and thin. The soft tissue in the neck area is flaccid when palpated.’ This raises two questions. How could the mylohyoid muscle, which adjoins so closely to the skin, decay completely while the skin was not damaged? Tissue cannot rot selectively. Another possibility is that rodents ate it along with the tongue, but in this case, again, their teeth would have damaged the skin. In addition, traces of rodent teeth are very specific, and Vozrozhdenniy would have easily recognized them. But he only wrote that ‘the tongue in the oral cavity is absent’, and ‘the diaphragm of the mouth is absent’. It isn’t possible to clarify any of his statements, as he never gave an interview about the autopsy for the rest of his life. It appears likely that someone used a knife to perform the amputation. However, if this is indeed so, it definitely occurred post-mortem, otherwise there would have been profound bleeding. According to Genrietta Churkina, a forensic pathologist present at the autopsy: ‘When it was discovered that Dubinina had no tongue, we wondered even more. I asked Boris [Vozrozhdenniy]: “Where could [the tongue] go?” He shrugged his shoulders. It seemed to me he was depressed and even scared.’
Oss, Svetlana. Don't Go There: Post Mortem (pp. 202-203). LiberWriter.com. Kindle Edition. "
Nigel Evans
08-09-2017 20:48 (GMT)
@Jaime - the exit slit was cut top to bottom, the entrance was smaller it's difficult to find a picture of it. They made the right decision if they had to get out fast.
The other slits along the top of the tent (at eye height) were to observe something out there in the dark (only on one side). The three heads photo is imo a photo of it catching the folds and weave of the canvas fabric - http://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Zolotaryov-camera-01.jpg .
Jaime
08-09-2017 20:32 (GMT)
Nigel, don't agree. Quicker to get out thru flap than cut way out. And explain the small slits
KMM
08-09-2017 20:30 (GMT)
I always dismissed the missing tongue as animal predation without paying much attention to it. I'm beginning to rethink that. The autopsy report should of addressed that and other things. I'm starting to believe the investigation had a agenda to fulfill and crafted the evidence to fit. (much like nigel does)
Nigel Evans
08-09-2017 20:30 (GMT)
@Sandy - YK's nose tip was removed yes? By a scavenger yes? So if there's one then it's reasonable that there could be more damage from scavengers yes? You are being the blockhead. Have a good weekend.
Jaime
08-09-2017 20:29 (GMT)
Sandy, inhale. "Aliens don't murder humans that way????" How do they murder them? Facts: they left the tent by cutting their way out, soot was found on tent. ZERO evidence of other people, animals, aliens, avalanche, etc. Can't imagine what you thought of crop circles before they were proven as hoaxes.
Sandy
08-09-2017 20:26 (GMT)
@Nigel: "No other theory stacks up?"
You can't explain the injuries with your BL nonsense. And rats?? Seriously dude?? You REALLY think rats did some of the injuries??
Wow. I'm at a loss for words. Rats did not do that.
You think their corpses looked calm?? I wonder if their parents would agree. Sorry Nigel, but you're a blockhead. You can't be reasoned with as you're one of these people that "always have to be right".
Your BL theory stinks & doesn't match up with anything really. Time for me to leave work & gone til MON!! Please take another look at their deceased pics. These poor people look anything BUT CALM..... They look filled with sheer terror as one would look as they stare death right in the face & know they're going to die right now......
Nigel Evans
08-09-2017 20:25 (GMT)
@Jaime - the entrance was a tube that limited speed of exit for one person never mind nine.
Nigel Evans
08-09-2017 20:24 (GMT)
@LC - "don't grasp the severity of the temperatures." The encountered lividity demonstrates that the process was happening that night.
Sandy
08-09-2017 20:20 (GMT)
@Jaime:
They didn't use the stove that last nite.
And it wasn't "something" that blocked their exit, it was "someone(s)" as in human.
With a Yeti, would have been blood all over. Aliens? They don't murder humans like that.
Nigel Evans
08-09-2017 20:17 (GMT)
@Sandy
@Nigel - We have to agree to disagree. Oh yes, but it's more fun this way.
You fail to see the obvious as your need for it to be your theory of BL is too strong & overrides your common sense. No it's just what i think, part of the case for BL is that no other theory stacks up as well.
I agree that there isn't one injury, but in all NINE! Even ID that was about the only one to just expire from hypothermia had his hands/knuckles beat up from punching and defending punches. Maybe there was a fight, maybe it was rodents, maybe it was digging the ravine 4 out of the snow. Doesn't really support a murder theory imo.
To me, it CLEARLY shows these 9 people were all beaten to sh!t but only some of them expired from hypothermia. How do you think BL made ALL their hands look like that? Tell me how it crushed 2 of their skulls & broke 2 sets of ribs? Crushed a chest cavity? Hit Zina with either a baton or rifle?? Only obvious she was attacked from behind. The BL theory only explains how they left the tent and how the ravine 4 died from superhuman force. I don't accept that Zina was hit by a baton, they were dragging a sled for days over rough ground with a rope tied around their waist...
Again, your passion to be "right" is clearly clouding your judgment & you are only seeing what you want to see. BL killing these 9 people is like saying the sky is purple. Don't think so again part of the case for the BL theory is that it's the only one to fit the facts. The BIG problem with the murder theory is the question "how could they have been so stupid to light a fire?". LC answers this by deciding it was internal violence.
Go read their autopsies again. Pay special attention to their hand abrasions/scratches/knuckles bruised and skinned........abrasions to their faces.....dried blood on almost all mouths....tongue cut at the root while she was still alive to have swallowed the blood......being knocked down by BL over & over til both sides of the skull is crushed.....the sheer terror on their faces isn't from BL but evil humans.
Believe me i've read the autopsies more than you. The is nothing there to suggest the tongue was cut or that she swallowed any blood, it's a myth. Also i don't see terror in their faces, in fact they seem quite calm.
Sandy
08-09-2017 20:12 (GMT)
I can agree that they weren't "all" experiencing advanced stages of hypothermia when injured". I believe maybe 3 or 4 weren't at that late stage as the others less dressed were.
You didn't answer the questions I posted about BL sustaining the injuries in about 5 or 6 of them?
Jaime
08-09-2017 20:11 (GMT)
The stove theory is the only sensible one (if you don't believe in Yeti or aliens). Something occurring in the tent which also blocked the exit. Why cut holes to escape if there is a exit way? The stove blocked the exit.
Loose-Cannon
08-09-2017 20:08 (GMT)
@Sandy... Fascinating ideas. I thought Zina was playing Igor and used to date Yuri though... Dunno about RS.
Nigel. The point is... Your simply ignoring and attempting to write-off facts that do not support your BL theory. Its that simple. Several victims found on their backsides.... Why did they not bleed out of their ass or otherwise have a rat chew off a buttcheek!?!?. Your assertion is moot.
#1. Its common sense... Blood no longer flowing will settle with gravity BUT, that does not mean blood platelets stop containing blood where it belongs..... Not going to bleed out your ass anytime soon after you die. Dont worry about the new drawers getting blood soiled.
#2. Bodily fluids I'm sure can leak from a body cavity some time after death during a certain decomposition period BUT, unfortunately for you, their bodies were frozen solid as a rock with minutes of dying. Humans are mostly water, and said water is absorbed into every level of tissue. Ever seen water freezing right befor your eyes? Again... I don't think you grasp the severity of the temperatures. https://youtu.be/rTYsohr5Z-I
Sandy
08-09-2017 20:07 (GMT)
How does BL snap a neck like that & deform it?
In "Death on the Trail" (D.O.T.T.), the Russian author believes Rustem Slobodin was the first to die. He believes he attempted to attack the "robbers" at the tent & he was beat in the head then by the attackers. He was still alive & didn't die right away from his head injuries. Where he was found was where he had finally dropped & expired from hypothermia, but due to his horrific blunt trauma head injuries, his hypothermia was brought on much faster. He even suggests that Igor was heading back towards the tent to find Rustem but he died from hypothermia along the way.
I believe Loose Cannon posted his theory very similar to this.
I don't know if I believe Rustem was the first to die or not. It makes good sense that the 2 Yuri's at the cedar tree were the first 2 to die.
Nigel Evans
08-09-2017 20:03 (GMT)
@Sandy - "All of the victims were experiencing various stages of advancing hypothermia when they sustained injuries." Very contentious statement. NTB was VERY well dressed for the cold (probably on watch) in particular he had two hats - by a tightly tied green woollen sports cap with three round holes sized 3 x 3 cm located in the front. A khaki canvas fur helmet with a zipper fastener [like a flying helmet]; the helmet is drawn by a cord.
Oss, Svetlana. Don't Go There: Post Mortem (p. 215). LiberWriter.com. Kindle Edition.
NTB gloves were in his pocket and AK was found with his jacket unzipped. Imo they were inside a shelter. Whatever NTB's head wouldn't have been cold.
Sandy
08-09-2017 19:57 (GMT)
@Nigel - We have to agree to disagree.
You stated "The main point here is that many of the smaller injuries you categorize as "combat" or "BEAT TO SHIT" are ambiguous and could have other causes.
In fact there is NOT ONE injury that is CLEARLY caused by human violence. Everyone of them has an alternative solution."
You fail to see the obvious as your need for it to be your theory of BL is too strong & overrides your common sense.
I agree that there isn't one injury, but in all NINE! Even ID that was about the only one to just expire from hypothermia had his hands/knuckles beat up from punching and defending punches.
To me, it CLEARLY shows these 9 people were all beaten to sh!t but only some of them expired from hypothermia. How do you think BL made ALL their hands look like that? Tell me how it crushed 2 of their skulls & broke 2 sets of ribs? Crushed a chest cavity? Hit Zina with either a baton or rifle?? Only obvious she was attacked from behind.
Again, your passion to be "right" is clearly clouding your judgment & you are only seeing what you want to see. BL killing these 9 people is like saying the sky is purple.
Go read their autopsies again. Pay special attention to their hand abrasions/scratches/knuckles bruised and skinned........abrasions to their faces.....dried blood on almost all mouths....tongue cut at the root while she was still alive to have swallowed the blood......being knocked down by BL over & over til both sides of the skull is crushed.....the sheer terror on their faces isn't from BL but evil humans.
@Anna: Good points. I agree with everything you just wrote. You were the first person when I found this site that I came across & stated they were murdered by humans. You're exactly right & I agree with you 100%.
Sandy
08-09-2017 19:42 (GMT)
Here is yet another theory that for the most part, could have happened as well. It is another theory that they were murdered.
CE399_ 19-10-2016 20:09 (GMT) Comment to all previous posts:
1. Zina Kolmogorova's postion at death is not mysterious at all. Zina was romantically involved with both of the men whose bodies were closest to her body. The group had split up at some point with some of them forming an expedition to try to get back to the tent. The "tent" subgroup was Zina, Dyatlov and Slobodin. Zina was the best clothed, strong and athletic but had been struck in the side and back with something resembling a baton (or butt of a rifle). She made it the furthest of any in the "tent" expedition but of course, succumbed to hypothermia. The "tent" expedition was ill-fated because no one was properly clothed and all had sustained injuries and expended too much energy most likely fighting off their attacker(s).
2. The attacker(s) killed Thibeaux-Brignolle most likely because he tried to be heroic in trying to defend the girl in the group who was closest to him in age. His injuries are consistent with an impulsive young man who is killed by a much more experienced fighter wielding a long, hard object like a baton, rod or rifle. Zina's injuries are also consistent with such a weapon and more closely match what a male assailant who was an experienced fighter would do to woman who tried to attack him.
3. Regarding the so-called "lack of external injuries". The medical examiners were mediocre. All of the victims were experiencing various stages of advancing hypothermia when they sustained injuries. Bruising is not seen because blood flow is retracted from the skin of a hypothermic person. The body concentrates blood into the vital organs when it becomes hypothermic. I have personally experienced this happening very rapidly and very acutely. A cut on hypothermic skin that is shockingly deep may not bleed at all. In a particular episode of M*A*S*H a patient is said to have survived because he was "frozen" and would have bleed to death in warmer weather. The television series was known for its on-set medical advisors who took real accounts of combat from the Korean War and adapted them accurately for the show. The only thing that is not entirely accurate about the episode is that the soldier was not "frozen" because freezing kills tissue and bursts vessels. The soldier was hypothermic and his blood flow was restricted so much to the area of the wound that it did not bleed. The noticeable lack of "external injuries" is due to hypothermia. Remember, people are quite conscious and alive when their bodies begin to react to hypothermia.
4. I have lived a number of years above the Arctic Circle. Lights, fireballs, and other strange luminescent events are common. People in the lower latitudes only know about "the Northern Lights" but there is a whole range of strange and spectacular things that happen at the higher latitudes. And it's not all lights either. Sound events often occur too, with and without lights. I have heard and seen things that I would think were alien ships whizzing by or crashing if I wasn't an engineer with a physics education. The amount of energy deflected and channeled by the earth's magnetic field is enormous and causes all sorts of light and sound shows at the higher latitudes.
Everyone wants to treat the fireball events seen around the time of the Dyatlov tragedy as special. Sorry, that sort of thing is not special at all. Go spend a couple winters up there and you'll see. I have. And I am not impressed at all by the stories. They are as common as hurricanes in Florida. Sure, some are bigger than others and some seasons have few and others a lot. But what was seen was not unique.
If you take any story in isolation, it can be made out to be a spectacular or strange occurrence.
How many accounts of the Dyatlov incident mention that the lights in the sky seen at that time were also seen before and after that day for many days and from year-to-year? And none of the witness accounts of the "halos" are certain to have occurred exactly on the day when the group perished which is another issue.
Group infighting does not explain the hurried exit from the tent unless someone pulled a gun on the rest of the group. Or say, grabbed Lyuda and threatened to slit her throat if the rest of the group didn't do as he said.
His theory ends with it being Yuri Yudin, the 10th hiker, that comes back with a couple men and murders them. NO way that happened either. All his other statements until that point are certainly a possibility. Yuri Yudin loved them and vice versa.
Nigel Evans
08-09-2017 19:10 (GMT)
Whether they were turned over is not the point. The point is that lividity is a fact, blood pools at the bottom of the corpse close to the skin. If a rodent then nips the skin there will be blood on the surface of the skin. That's how the some of the "combat" injuries can be explained. Ditto cut hands. Granted skull fractures need another reason like falling.
The main point here is that many of the smaller injuries you categorize as "combat" or "BEAT TO SHIT" are ambiguous and could have other causes.
In fact there is NOT ONE injury that is CLEARLY caused by human violence. Everyone of them has an alternative solution. That is a very strong fact for the murder theorists to answer.
KMM
08-09-2017 18:59 (GMT)
John Wolfe 08-09-2017 18:28 (GMT) note to Sandy -- there is a definite difference between BL and regular lightning -- they are related but not the same -- I do recognize that the two may sometimes have similar visual appearances and are thus confused in the reporting. (like the example I cited -- which I think is normal lightning -- and a very dangerous thing to do -- don't try this at home, as they say.)
So you don't even believe your own dribble, yet present it to be evidence of BL ???
Loose-Cannon
08-09-2017 18:35 (GMT)
Again... I personally do not believe they were turned over except with a slight possibility? of Igor. Your wild assertion is moot.
John Wolfe
08-09-2017 18:28 (GMT)
note to Sandy -- there is a definite difference between BL and regular lightning -- they are related but not the same -- I do recognize that the two may sometimes have similar visual appearances and are thus confused in the reporting. (like the example I cited -- which I think is normal lightning -- and a very dangerous thing to do -- don't try this at home, as they say.)
Anna Yordanova
08-09-2017 18:26 (GMT)
To Sandy. When I first saw the pics of the incident I only saw a storage house situated South from the tent. I don't have a detailed picture of premises and I didn't know how it looks like. But I will say again that in my opinion the killers have come from this direction and that's why the group has run towards the woods. I also have stated in one of my previous posts that I believe that no environmental factors could cause this tragedy and the hikers have been killed by humans(more like animals). To Loose Cannon. Yes, it is true that the pictures do not look anything like the hikers, especially Doroshenko.
Nigel Evans
08-09-2017 18:24 (GMT)
@Sandy / @LC - we know the bodies were turned over because of the lividity, because the blood pools via gravity so close to the surface of the skin that it is visible. Exactly my point. So if some of the bodies are face down and a rodent has a little nibble perhaps of the lips or the face then there will be blood yes?
John Wolfe
08-09-2017 18:21 (GMT)
note to Sandy: at least LC provides some interesting sites -- not that he / she reads them ....
Sandy
08-09-2017 18:03 (GMT)
@John: I believe there is ball lightening & it has struck people throughout the ages. Many people have died from lightening strikes.
While the experiment was under way, ball lightning appeared and travelled down the string, struck Richmann's forehead and killed him. The ball had left a red spot on Richmann's forehead, his shoes were blown open, and his clothing was singed. His engraver was knocked unconscious. The door frame of the room was split and the door was torn from its hinges.[12]
How does his injuries in ANY way, shape or form explain the 9 hikers' injuries?? His shoes were blown open?? I'm not surprised to read this. Lightening can be very lethal. This doesn't compare to what happened with the hikers.
NO WAY IS ANY FORM OF LIGHTENING, BALL OR OTHERWISE, GOING TO KILL NINE DIFFERENT PEOPLE AT DIFFERENT TIME FRAMES, IN DIFFERENT LOCATIONS & IN MANY DIFFERENT INJURIES.
What part of this can't Nigel/John comprehend?? Even in lightening attacks, there are survivors and any form of lightening has never killed a large group of people with different attacks.
The horse is dead. D-e-a-d. I'm through as well with writing anymore absurdity about all those 9 people being killed by BL. Impossibly absurd. The.End.
Sandy
08-09-2017 17:54 (GMT)
@ Loose Cannon - Thanks for the pics from that link! A bunch of those I had not seen!
John Wolfe
08-09-2017 17:52 (GMT)
you know -- I'm pretty much done trying to convince the fakes who pretend to read the stuff and the links we provide -- THEY DON'T EVEN READ THEIR OWN LINKS LET ALONE OURS ! Why waste our time ? Why don't you go off and do something constructive --- like the dishes ..... or take out the garbage ...... KMM asks for names and I provide names -- here's just one example -- a famous and historic ABD VERIFIABLE account :
Georg Richmann[edit]
A 1753 report depicts ball lightning as having been lethal when professor Georg Richmann of Saint Petersburg, Russia, created a kite-flying apparatus similar to Benjamin Franklin's proposal a year earlier. Richmann was attending a meeting of the Academy of Sciences when he heard thunder and ran home with his engraver to capture the event for posterity. While the experiment was under way, ball lightning appeared and travelled down the string, struck Richmann's forehead and killed him. The ball had left a red spot on Richmann's forehead, his shoes were blown open, and his clothing was singed. His engraver was knocked unconscious. The door frame of the room was split and the door was torn from its hinges.[12]
-- I posted a pile of these. Apparently KMM didn't see that one either (and don't bother answering this as I am not responding to your useless posts of phony analysis)
LC -- I thought you were some sleep-deprived and angry 12 year old (you have the mentality of one --- or maybe a 10 year old) --- but in one of your curse-word filled rants (against either me or the ball-lightning hypothesis) you said something that changed my mind --- what you said / called me, was a "pantywaist" ! A "PANTYWAIST" ! No has used that word in the last half century ! I had to look the word up to be sure of its meaning, and then research its use. (see: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pantywaist --- which said its first use was in 1910 ! ) That word went out of use as a descriptive noun in the 1920's after which it was more used as an insult (implying: "sissy" ) however by the 1930's it had become a comic pejorative -- its last known use was in a B&W Bob Hope movie from the early 1950's ! ------ I now think we're dealing with an angry sleep-deprived 80 year old ! Dude! Is your hair white ? Do you have any hair left ? --- and most importantly ...... Do you take your teeth out when you go to bed ?
--- special note to Loose Shorts or whatever your name is: the BBC reports that your source of secret information, Alex Jones, of info wars, has declared hurricane Irma ...... a category 6 ! .... in spite of the fact that no such category exists ! (see: http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-41187164 )
--- as for Nigel, Anna, and a few others who are really interested in this sad accident -- and might even solve it -- I will be glad to comment / correspond on this site as my time allows -- I am fascinated by the enormous power that lightning and ball-lightning conveys and the possibility that we don't know what the heck it is, but that it is probably related to both plasma physics phenomena and radiant microwave energy in some highly unusual way. WHAT A FANTASTIC AND BEAUTIFUL WORLD WE LIVE IN ! I'm off to water the garden -- gd'day.
Sandy
08-09-2017 17:14 (GMT)
@ Nigel: NO, your rat articles doesn't explain ANYTHING at all that has to do with any of the 9 injuries. Brother. I can't believe how far you'll go to attempt to tie such stupid sh!t in with what happened to the 9. Give.it.a.rest.
Sandy
08-09-2017 17:07 (GMT)
@ Loose Cannon - I agree that almost all of the hikers DO NOT look like the pics we have seen so many of. I even thought they had Lyuda's autopsy pic instead of Zina's. I can't tell at all that was Zina. They all have looks of sheer terror on their faces.
I also would have thought the 4 bodies that had 12 ft. of snow piled on them from Feb - May when they were found, would have been much more preserved than they were.
Sandy
08-09-2017 17:03 (GMT)
@Nigel - Some of the bodies being turned over is a FACT. They could tell where the lividity had pooled after they were deceased.
Lividity can be a useful reaction in determining the position of a body at the time of death and even whether a body was moved within the first few hours after death. When the blood cells begin to decompose, the release of the blood forms a bluish-purple bruise.
Lividity can also result when blood flow ceases after death. The blood that was formerly flowing through the body can be drawn to the lowest point in the body by the influence of gravity. For example, if a victim was lying on her right side at the time of death, lividity would be evident on the right side of the face, hip, and on the areas of the right arm and leg that were closest to the ground.
It is known for a FACT that some of the bodies had indeed been turned over.
Loose-Cannon
08-09-2017 16:49 (GMT)
This is interesting to say the least. Not sure how viable it is, but I have wondered myself why in so many of the pictures the subjects do not seem to look like the 9 individuals we have come to know. :/
Maybe Sandy, KMM, and Anna will find this interesting? I dunno
Nigel - This was already addressed about the fire being built & SZ was never a part of it. SZ grasped the seriousness right away & advised the Yuri's NOT to build the fire. It's hard to listen to someone saying that when you almost naked & are freezing to death. Yes, it was stupid but most of them didn't realize it. They thought as soon as the "robbers" left, they'd all return to the tent.
Nigel - if that's all the ques. you need answering then it's pretty obvious just how all the injuries are indeed covered and administered by humans, probably soldiers, agents, some type of experts in hand to hand combat.
I find it almost laughable how you hang onto that ridiculous BL theory & that you think balls of anything could have sustained ALL nine people's injuries!! You're like a junk yard dog when you get ahold of something - you just can't let go.
Nigel/John: You are beating a dead horse. Stop it.
And to Anna: There was never a "storage house" for the robbers to "hide in".
@ Loose Cannon - it wasn't even a piece of soldier legging, more like a small patch torn off from a uniform or coat. Also, your 1st paragraph about Igor/Zina possibly heading back to help is very plausible & that is even mentioned in Death on the Trail.
@Loose Cannon - In D.O.T.T. (Nigel, see above), it was said that there were plenty of dry branches much lower down on the cedar tree that could have been retrieved to use for fire. That it didn't make much sense to go for the way higher up branches, unless someone was either trying to ascertain what was going on at the tent & the robbers or else after Yuri 2 had witnessed Yuri 1 being murdered by sitting on his chest & crushing it, thence the gray liquid found on his cheek. This comes from having your chest cavity crushed. Yuri 2 stayed in the tree as long as he could as he knew he would be murdered next. When Yuri 2's frozen hands couldn't hold on any longer & he fell hard, injuring himself & already almost dead from hypothermia. The "robbers" saw this & left him to die. Nothing further needed to be done, he would be dead soon.
ALL their injuries prove that almost ALL of them had been beaten to death like Loose Cannon posted. They were no match against soldiers.
The reason I believe Lyuda was alive when her tongue was severed L.C. is due to the fact that she had blood in her stomach and had swallowed the blood to get it there. She had to still be alive for this to happen.
I don't know how anyone could possibly believe that balls of ANYTHING personally stalked & killed NINE people and have SO MANY DIFFERENT injuries & most stemming from being beat to death & fighting back themselves. They weren't fighting fireballs, ball lightening or orange orbs.......Had this been the case, the injuries would have been different & I don't believe all 9 would have died. There would have been some survivors.
Nothing like this has EVER happened where a large group of people all die together with like injuries & no survivors.
I think the Yeti theory works better than BL folks.
Loose-Cannon
08-09-2017 16:08 (GMT)
We don't, but Igor is thought to possibly have been. I don't personally put much significance in it. The positioning of the arms etc are very strange though.
Nigel Evans
08-09-2017 15:51 (GMT)
We know that the bodies were turned because?
Loose-Cannon
08-09-2017 15:48 (GMT)
Additionally, if your were to block an incoming blow to the face with your hand up and palm out.... Don't be surprised to find the back of your hand striking your teeth. Sound familiar? Or did the ship rats remove the skin and wedge it between his teeth to save it for later?
Loose-Cannon
08-09-2017 15:03 (GMT)
There wouldn't be a flow into the nose and mouth unless there was a rupture to begin with. Besides, frozen liquids do not flow.... Did you forget the temps?
Yeah... Really looks to be a varmint infested environment to me. NOT!
"Oh, the bloody noses and mouths.... Kinda need a heart beat for that. " Not if they're face down, gravity doing what it does, kinda shot yourself in the foot there. Agreed crows will be detered by the snow, but rodents wont be that's where they live in the winter, under the snow.
Loose-Cannon
08-09-2017 14:07 (GMT)
Accept for the fact some were literally face down in the snow, covered rapidly by blowing snow on the side of a mountain named specifically for its lack of game. Of course then you have the injuries having been documented causing damage to the underlying tissue with swelling etc. Not to mention the fresh bright red baton strike across the mid section. Oh, the bloody noses and mouths.... Kinda need a heart beat for that. Since when do scavengers prefer frozen hands? Everyone knows they go for the eyeballs first.
Nice try. Yuris nose missing sure, but once again, common sense should prevail.
Nigel Evans
08-09-2017 13:48 (GMT)
@LC - Larf, it's very reasonable to point out that YK's nose tip was from scavengers. If the case is proven for one injury then it will apply to others especially on the hands and faces.
Nigel Evans
08-09-2017 13:44 (GMT)
@AllNonBLievers - So YK and YD falling out of the tree solves a problem for the BL theory, it doesn't have to be involved in their deaths. Just scares them all out of the tent and then later moves to the ravine and explodes in the snow bank. Rodents and birds (e.g. Siberian crow) create ambiguous facial and hand injuries consistent with fighting.
Loose-Cannon
08-09-2017 13:37 (GMT)
Laff Nigel... Just when I thought you were turning reasonable.
So YK's big burn seems to be from externally applied heat that charred the ankle with the rest of the leg being protected somewhat from the heat. So the fire is the best candidate, electrocution or microwave heating would behave differently.
Could be an innocent explanation of course, falling out of the tree, concussed and unattended, ditto YD.
I find the way that YK's long johns were cut up to be strange. Why would you want to cut them halfway down and leave one lower half on? Quite weird. Surely the "tubes" would make the best improvised socks...
Loose-Cannon
08-09-2017 12:08 (GMT)
And a burnt sock even closer to the fire which was 1m from the bodies. That's roughly 3 feet.... So the sock was what 6" to maybe 2' away from the fire.
I have also seen pics of this nature but could never find them again recently for the vid.... Like the one on the left here... It was shown partially in your link but the feet were cropped of. https://ibb.co/fUuaJa
So it just seems to be the ankle area that is charred.
Nigel Evans
08-09-2017 11:39 (GMT)
Forgot to mention that site below keeps wrongly associating the YK photos with RS.
Nigel Evans
08-09-2017 11:10 (GMT)
@John - "I must of missed them. Name me some and the names of the dead. (verifiable) " i was thinking of historical accounts. Wrt the TWA800 disaster, i'm with Paul Sagan that BL is a likely candidate but cannot be proven of course.
It's a fair point that the metal could have protected the contents of the flask..
Note that the autopsy says - "There is a burn across the entire surface of the left anticnemion with a size of 31 x 10 cm with parchment density. In the lower third of the left ??? of brown-black colour with charred tissue and the blow out of the cutaneous covering ???? in the middle and upper thirds there is an ambustial surface ???red and light brown colour.
Oss, Svetlana. Don't Go There: Post Mortem (p. 215). LiberWriter.com. Kindle Edition. "
I can't see that damage in those photos, but curiously the right leg is covered...
KMM
08-09-2017 08:48 (GMT)
There were 2 replies to your comment-Nearly all BL accounts have witnesses else you wouldn't have a report?
this one- I've read LOTS of witness reports about alien abductions, ghosts, bigfoot, sea monsters, so yeah,.........
and this one- I must of missed them. Name me some and the names of the dead. (verifiable).
Where I was asking for names of the dead from ball lightning and the people who witnessed them being killed.
KMM
08-09-2017 08:32 (GMT)
Loose-Cannon 08-09-2017 03:42 (GMT) KMM... Could be. Unless she fell against a rock pretty hard, or its somehow attributed to decomposition?
Its just another instance in the autopsy report where they didn't elaborate, much like luda's missing tongue. Seems they left a lot of what would of been useful information out. Makes you wonder why
KMM
08-09-2017 08:18 (GMT)
see: re: KMM 09-06-2017 07:04 (GMT) Nigel : Nearly all BL accounts have witnesses else you wouldn't have a report?
KMM 06-09-2017 07:18 (GMT) nigel Nearly all BL accounts have witnesses else you wouldn't have a report?
Here was my reply to that
I've read LOTS of witness reports about alien abductions, ghosts, bigfoot, sea monsters, so yeah,...........
Anna Yordanova
08-09-2017 08:16 (GMT)
Hi John.My point was that they(killers in my opinion)chose this area,as it was far from any human settlement and they would not leave any witnesses.But as I said I am only guessing.I am not a criminologist, I have a completely different background.
KMM
08-09-2017 08:13 (GMT)
I must of missed them. Name me some and the names of the dead. ........ You didn't post what I asked for ! I asked for verifiable names of the dead
Like you said, you have no way to verify them !
John Wolfe
08-09-2017 07:41 (GMT)
note to LC : it was KMM who demanded a list of verifiable names of witnesses and victims and so on -- so KMM got a list from me.
see: re: KMM 09-06-2017 07:04 (GMT) Nigel : Nearly all BL accounts have witnesses else you wouldn't have a report?
I must of missed them. Name me some and the names of the dead. (verifiable)
John Wolfe
08-09-2017 07:36 (GMT)
Hi Anna, re: your comment about: "But If this has been a planned murder from the beginning" but why do it that way -- if someone was going to do in the entire bunch (for singing? ) they would have been killed right out at the beginning of their hike - not after skiing for a week or more.
also, from the group diary (they were not singing subversive songs -- just singing -- which would annoy any sleeping travelers at the station)
January 24 7.00 (am) We arrived in Serov (town). We traveled with a Blinov's group. They have... things for hunting and other accessories. At the station we were met with hell of a hospitality. They didn't allow us into the building. The policeman stares at us suspiciously. There is no crime or vandalism in the city, as it suppose to be in times of communism. And then Yuri Krivo started a song, the cops grabbed him and took him away. At the attention of citizen Krivonischenko, sergeant explained that the rules of §3 prohibited all activity that would disturb the peace of passengers. It is perhaps the only train station where the songs are forbidden, so we stayed without singing. Finally everything is settled by end fo the day. We are leaving Serov to Ivdel at 6:30 pm. We were welcomed warmly in the school near the railway station. The steward (she is also a janitor) bolied some water, and helped us with everything we needed for the preparation for the trek.
John Wolfe
08-09-2017 07:18 (GMT)
Hi Nigel --- re: your post: Nigel Evans 09-07-2017 09:56 (GMT) @John - "--- any water in / on the tent would flash off at its boiling point (or thereabouts) and so would not heat the molecules (of the other stuff) up enough to cause a change; but a microwave would. "
There was a flask of alcohol in the tent which is unlikely to have survived the heating you're suggesting. I think it was more modest.
first of all -- the alcohol / flask was inside the tent and (most likely) stowed away (not touched - see reports) so there would be layers upon layers of shielding;
second -- the term "flask" leads me to think of a metal one -- brought for the same reason hikers would bring food either preserved (and maybe canned) but never in GLASS -- which would be a problem that would have to be dealt with asap if it broke and would take a lot of time to clean up the glass mess. I've done a lot of back-packing (including months long) and would never take anything in glass -- nor have I seen anyone else do so. The metal flask could heat up but if sealed would not likely be blowup the liquid inside; and it was not reported leaking.
lastly --- the tent would have been covered with snow -- from the continuous snow-fall and blowing -- this would tend to stick if it made the tent wet (from melting) thus forming a shielding layer of sorts (it was absorbing the microwaves)
it would be nice to find out more about that "flask" -- one account called it "medicinal alcohol" -- but another said the searchers drank it in (false hopes) of soon toasting the hikers alive -- the Mansi started quite a row when they suggested that they toast the dead ! (see references to the Mansi having seen/visited the tent and etc. BEFORE the hikers were found by the searchers - taking nothing) --- one site suggested it was "vodka" but none other did.
also: I should add that it is one thing to "boil-off" water, one molecule at a time --- and quite a different thing to continuously irradiate a flask to the point of exploding the flask -- remember that a metal flask would shield the contents from any microwave energy and, in a very cold environment would loose much of its acquired heat (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_shielding
--- or google Faraday cage.
KMM
08-09-2017 06:32 (GMT)
Loose-Cannon 08-09-2017 03:42 (GMT) KMM... Could be. Unless she fell against a rock pretty hard, or its somehow attributed to decomposition?
anything is possible, but idt a bone will decompose in 3 months.
"Hyoid bone fracture is usually the result of direct trauma to the neck because of manual strangulation, hanging, blunt trauma or projectiles. However, hyoid bone fracture caused by a fall has seldom been reported. We report the case of a young man who fell from 1.5 m while painting, which resulted as an isolated hyoid bone fracture. Hyoid bone fracture secondary to trauma may occur when a victim falls with a direct contusion of the neck" http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2211558712000349
John Wolfe
08-09-2017 03:56 (GMT)
re: Nigel Evans 09-07-2017 23:07 (GMT) : setting the flashlight on the tent, and throwing his coat down, near the spot where he had exited (It’s difficult to conceive of another logical scenario that would explain these objects being found where they were).
--- Please note: there are several mentions, on several web-pages of evidence that the Mansi probably came across the hikers and their tent before the search party -- by putting the flashlight and jacket where they were found they were indicating respect for the dead, and an unwillingness to take any of the possessions. (least any Soviet interrogator think 'they did the killing)
Loose-Cannon
08-09-2017 03:42 (GMT)
KMM... Could be. Unless she fell against a rock pretty hard, or its somehow attributed to decomposition?
KMM
08-09-2017 02:25 (GMT)
I'm going to repost this:
from the official autopsy reports
"When palpation is felt, the unusual mobility of the ribs is determined"
"When probing the neck, the unusual mobility of the horns of the hyoid bone and thyroid cartilage is determined"
We know the ribs were broken and the heart punctured, so they had their cause of death. but if the hyoid bone was also broken this is pretty clear evidence of strangulation at, before, or around the time of death.
John Wolfe
08-09-2017 01:25 (GMT)
OK --- Death On The Trail --- thanks -- been there but not all the links yet.
John Wolfe
08-09-2017 01:22 (GMT)
something about the two "labaz" photos bothers me:
I think the rescuer's photo is of some other site. Unless the labaz fell over -- how did the snow appear so deep? --- and where did the large trunk trees go ?
re: Sandy 09-07-2017 17:40 (GMT) said : "You should at least read D.O.T.T ...... " what is DOTT and could you provide a link ?
Loose-Cannon
08-09-2017 00:52 (GMT)
There is like zero signs of footprints around it etc... Even it it had been constructed the day before, you would think signs of them working on it ground level would be obvious.
But you are right LC, too much snow from being new construction and it does say krivonschenko's camera
Loose-Cannon
08-09-2017 00:31 (GMT)
Darn double post... This structure with the recaptcha stinks
Loose-Cannon
08-09-2017 00:29 (GMT)
This above ground structure sure has alot of snow on it for just being constructed. Are you positive this is their cache and not a local indian object? Looks like something native American indians used to 'bury' their dead.... Above ground like this.
KMM
08-09-2017 00:22 (GMT)
"When palpation is felt, the unusual mobility of the ribs is determined" Seems the ribs were described the same as the hyoid bone from external examination
KMM
08-09-2017 00:15 (GMT)
I always thought the structure they built was above ground, idk
Loose-Cannon
08-09-2017 00:10 (GMT)
This above ground structure sure has alot of snow on it for just being constructed. Are you positive this is their cache and not a local indian object? Looks like something native American indians used to 'bury' their dead.... Above ground like this.
Loose-Cannon
08-09-2017 00:05 (GMT)
Wait... Your showing the cache above ground. I saw pictures of the rescue team that found it basically opening up a hole.... Unless I guess it collapsed?
Loose-Cannon
08-09-2017 00:02 (GMT)
Woah woah there cowboy. Lets be fair.
"Well it wasn't much of a hand to hand fight, no broken noses, no torn ears, no black eyes, no gouged eyes, just abrasions and a few bruises. Maybe the soldiers wore boxing gloves? "
Must I post the list of injuries again? Multiple swollen heads, bloody mouths, bloody noses, skin ripped off knuckles down to the bone... Should I post the Zina hand again? Abrasions.... Lets see, you dont get them by putting your shirt on. You get them from contact with another object with enough force to leave a mark! Sounds like fighting to me. Not to mention 90% of them are to the head, face, and hands. So I guess BL REALLY likes themselves some face and hands, or you think they received all this in their simple hiking days prior? Of course we do happen to have THEIR VERY OWN pictures taken the day before and the morning of their last hike..... They sure look fine in the face to me! They received all these injuries THAT NIGHT. FACT.
"and crushed TBS’s skull, neutralizing them without leaving any obvious weapon mark. Must have bee the boxing gloves again. Some punch, cracking the base of the skull as well as the rest of it."
I will repeat myself AGAIN.... Thanks for making me remember something I would rather forget. I have personally witnessed on TWO separate occasions a person punched so hard their skull eye socket was completely crushed inward, the second the temple are much like in this case... I took the person to the damn hospital. Guess what!.. not a single exterior cut or wound of the skin. Now you tell me.... What happens when you add a big freaking stick into the equation?... How about a rock? Now, these folks just happen to be wearing their HATS for the most part. Do you not think a winter beenie can/will help prevent exterior marks upon the affected area? Don't make me pull a John and start copy/pasting autopsy reports.
You are correct on the storage site... It was basically a hole cache with logs over the top from what I can tell.
KMM
07-09-2017 23:41 (GMT)
Luda's autopsy "When probing the neck, the unusual mobility of the horns of the hyoid bone and thyroid cartilage is determined" Wish they had been more specific on this, a fractured hyoid bone is almost always caused by strangulation Poor Luda, she already had enough fatal injuries
The multiple cuts in the tent were created in the panic and confusion of exiting a wriggling collapsed tent cover in the dark. Yeah right, a number of slits were cut along the top of the tent "in confusion". Funny how they are all along one side at the right height for viewing something. No mention of why a camera was found on a tripod when they were just settling in for the night. Don't tripods take up room?
setting the flashlight on the tent, and throwing his coat down, near the spot where he had exited (It’s difficult to conceive of another logical scenario that would explain these objects being found where they were). As suggested before the flashlight would have been useful for "toilet trips". You wouldn't want to wake people up in the night so the flashlight was left outside in a known place perhaps the jacket to.
The Dyaltov party was followed, but not very far. (Their being followed some distance would explain the heeled boot track found among their own tracks as they headed down slope - No one in the group was wearing such boots at this time). This is just not true, NTB was wearing his valenki (felt boots) he was well dressed probably because he was on watch.
They set up a small base camp under a pine tree, Cedar tree actually.
just out of site of the tent, and together built an emergency fire An act of incredible stupidity if they believed there were men out to kill them. Unbelievable that SZ a WW2 veteran could be involved in this. As said before the existence of the fire rules out a sentient threat.
Shortly before dawn, the soldiers returned to make sure no one was left to tell the tale. They discovered the shelter, and a hand-to-hand fight ensued. Well it wasn't much of a hand to hand fight, no broken noses, no torn ears, no black eyes, no gouged eyes, just abrasions and a few bruises. Maybe the soldiers wore boxing gloves?
(This would explain many’s of the group’s injuries, including the bruised metacarples on ID and RS, RS’s concussion, and the baton bruise on ZK.) Maybe there was a scrap between the group but it's not relevant to the deaths imo. I don't see a baton bruise on ZK, this Ian guy would do better to mention her cut hand.
ID, RS, and ZK managed to break free into the darkness. They made a run for the tent, desperate for the axes or anything to help their friends. (Such a level of desperation would explain why they left the group, the shelter, and the fire, when they were so close to freezing that they could only go a few hundred more yards). ZK, a strong and brave young woman came the closest to making it. They were climbing into the wind but all giving up in 330 metres is saying something else imo.
As for the group that was left, the soldiers pressed LD and SZ to death, So how did they "press them to death"? This isn't what the pathologist said.
broke YK’s neck, Assuming he means AK, the pathologist never said the neck was broken. He said it was deformed. It's a curious fact that he didn't investigate this further.
and crushed TBS’s skull, neutralizing them without leaving any obvious weapon mark. Must have bee the boxing gloves again. Some punch, cracking the base of the skull as well as the rest of it.
I don't think the soldier legging is a big issue, there is speculation that the den was a mansi hunter shelter, if so then they could have left it behind. Could have been there for a long time.
KMM
07-09-2017 21:05 (GMT)
I have read where old (pertaining to 1920 military attire) military legging was found in the tent, and also a report saying another was found at the ravine. I believe would of seen it DOT.
IF TRUE, could of belonged to one of the campers also.
KMM
07-09-2017 20:59 (GMT)
I dunno about this 'soldiers clothing'. Where did this come from?
I have read where old (pertaining to 1920 military attire) military legging was found in the tent, and also a report saying another was found at the ravine. I believe would of seen it DOTT.
Anna Yordanova
07-09-2017 20:56 (GMT)
I am gonna repeat again my opinion that the killers have been hidden in the storage house.But If this has been a planned murder from the beginning.They have been refused to enter the railway station(just for singing songs).Isn`t it a bit harsh?Then on the train they got accused of stealing by a drunk man.What if all of this scenarios have been planned in advanced and the group has been watched?Why the chancellor of the University has lied Dubinina`s parents about a telegraph received from Igor Dyatlov.The rescue groups have been sent a week after Dyatlov and group failed to report their arrival.A week!For this time the killers had have plenty of time to cover any prints,to swap clothes between the victims and mess around with evidence in order to puzzle the investigation.What if the killers slit the tent from inside in order to mislead the investigation?I might be wrong,but this ideas came up in my mind all of a sudden and I just decided to share them with you.
Loose-Cannon
07-09-2017 20:32 (GMT)
@Sandy
I dunno about this 'soldiers clothing'. Where did this come from? Its an ok theory I guess. I just hate going down the rabbit hole of explaining every little detail with unknowns. Example, the whole group minus the 2yuris could have been present at the shelter caring for the injured and Igor attempted to reach the tent first. After Igor failing to return, the other two could have made the attempt and found Igor dead along the way.... Could explain reports of him being turned over.
Another example is... The case files describe fairly hefty branches being half burned in the fire pit. Looking at the tree, the branches missing fit the bill. Im not convinced anyone was climbing the tree for any other reason other then to retrieve firewood from dead branches. Its even harder to keep a fire going under those conditions with green wet wood, if not impossible. Remember, all the suitable fallen dead wood was likely covered by the snow and also soaked to the core.
There is plenty of evidence suggesting they were murdered, but similar to any other theory, I think its a loosing battle attempting to rationalize and explain every tiny detail. Thats kinda why the BL theory IMHO is stuck in the mud.
KMM
07-09-2017 20:05 (GMT)
Very plausible theory Sandy,
I don't claim to have all the answers
Loose-Cannon
07-09-2017 19:54 (GMT)
Sick-Em Sandy!
Gotta admit she has some really good points. I don't know if it was murder from within or by outsiders, or if it was BL. I just have a very low tolerance for BS and bullies.
I do however believe the eyes and tongue were missing from natural causes... She was rotted and thawed out face down in a creek.
As far as it goes with Yuri Yudin not recognizing an article of clothing.... I found this. Its from his 'interrogation?'... Yup, even he was questioned.
"The collected money was bought: food and various things and equipment needed in the trek, as a first-aid kit, notebooks, pencils, materials for warming tents, etc., I do not remember everything. Backpacks, skis, boots, tent, ice ax and other equipment were received at the Institute."
There you have it.... "I do not remember everything" when talking about their gear, supplies etc.
Sandy
07-09-2017 19:45 (GMT)
Hi all, I have reposted a theory by Ian on 8/13/16. He basically believes that soldiers murdered them & the military covered it up.
Nigel - See the part about the piece of "soldier garb" that had been taken out of evidence. And it was the military that closed that particular site for 3 years.
This is an EXCELLENT write and theory & I believe every single word of it.
Ian 13-08-2016 14:11 (GMT)
These were young people full of life and ability, who would have brought a lot of good into the world if they had been able to live out their natural lifetimes. The sheer tragedy of this story hasn’t allowed it to leave my mind for days. At least for me, trying to put together a rational explanation of the events brings a little bit of closure. I’m not saying that the hypothetical scenario that follows is what happened, but I do think it fits all of the available evidence. What do you think?
Sometime during the day or evening of Feb 1st, the Dyatlov group encountered a clandestine testing or training operation perhaps involving jets or rockets (This would explain the reports of glowing orange lights and the military debris in the area later noted by YY). It wasn’t the type of situation where there was a fear of the hikers leaking photographs of a secrete weapon (their cameras would have simply been confiscated). For some reason, the group itself came to be perceived as the threat.
The group’s journal records that as they were traveling towards the beginning point of their hike, they sometimes sung anti-revolution songs that could have landed them in jail. They twice had scrapes with authorities on their trip (once for singing). Also from the journal, it appears that they enjoyed free and open debates about a variety of topics. Later, out in the woods hundreds of km from the nearest settlement (journal entry), they probably would have felt even greater freedom in such expressions. Entering into the area of an ongoing operation may have brought them under surveylence, perhaps without their knowledge. An overheard song or a frank debate about politics, combined with their chance-but-perceived-as-“suspicious” presence in a sensitive area, caused them to be viewed as subversive.
They camped that night on open high ground. When one of the members, perhaps SZ or NYB, stepped outside to relieve himself, if it was clear, his flashlight would have been visible for a long distance, alerting anyone in the area who might not have already been aware of their tent’s precise location. Minutes later, as the group was finishing dinner and drying out their clothes, a small armed detachment arrived at the tent. Whoever it was (I’ll call them “soldiers”) knocked the tent down, fired a few rounds into the air, and ordered the hikers outside or they would be shot. (Supposedly, there were no footprints other than the Dyaltov party’s at the tent, but how could one tell? Surely the Dyaltov group made many boot prints when they set up camp, obviously the rescuers were wearing boots days later when they got to the tent. At first no one suspected it could be a crime scene. It is not just possible but probable that a couple extra pairs of footprints at the tent would have gone unnoticed).
Unexpected gunfire and barking orders would have sent a momentary jolt of fear into even these level-headed travelers. Members of the group who had pocket knives at hand quickly cut through the tent to get everyone outside before the threat was carried out. The multiple cuts in the tent were created in the panic and confusion of exiting a wriggling collapsed tent cover in the dark.
The soldiers wanted to neutralize the hikers, but to leave bullet holes or other obvious wounds would have eventually led to strong demands for an explanation from the community. The soldiers chose to expose them to the cold. Under some guise, the soldiers told the Dyatlov group that they had to leave the area immediately. With great presence of mind, the group leader, ID grabbed a flashlight and his heavy coat as he was leaving the tent. He was immediately ordered to leave them behind, setting the flashlight on the tent, and throwing his coat down, near the spot where he had exited (It’s difficult to conceive of another logical scenario that would explain these objects being found where they were).
The Dyaltov party was followed, but not very far. (Their being followed some distance would explain the heeled boot track found among their own tracks as they headed down slope - No one in the group was wearing such boots at this time). They dropped a lit flashlight on the way, either because they were ordered to do so, or in hopes of using it as a beacon to direct them back to the tent if the soldiers left.
Poorly clothed, in extreme cold, and possibly in the dark, these resilient people covered half the distance that they traveled in their entire day’s hike, to arrive at the nearest tree line. This probably took quite a bit of time, and they knew that with their level of exposure the clock was against them. They set up a small base camp under a pine tree, just out of site of the tent, and together built an emergency fire (an impressive feat with frozen wood, in the cold, with no gloves, and possibly in the dark). Afraid that the soldiers were still at the tent, and unsure if they would pursue, YD and YK were posted near the fire to keep a lookout for the soldiers’ approach. (This would explain why branches were broken off so high up in the tree on the side of the tent, when other branches would have been easier to obtain.) Perhaps they kept a lookout from up in the tree as long as they could. Many or all of the injuries on these two individuals were from exposed hands getting frost bite in the tree, eventually leading to them falling out.
The rest of the group proceeded to build a shelter in a protected area, near, but out of site of the lookout tree. The small fire of frozen wood was not enough to keep the injured YD, and YK warm. Even though they burned parts of their numb extremities, they fell asleep. Either someone in the group was with them, or came back to them, showing care and respect by placing the bodies next to each other. The outer clothes, no longer of any use to the deceased, were removed. At this point, the shelter was not yet finished, because some of their clothing was incorporated into it. The survivors did their best to stay warm in the shelter, but were dangerously cold and heartbroken over the deaths.
Shortly before dawn, the soldiers returned to make sure no one was left to tell the tale. They discovered the shelter, and a hand-to-hand fight ensued. (This would explain many’s of the group’s injuries, including the bruised metacarples on ID and RS, RS’s concussion, and the baton bruise on ZK.) Exhausted and freezing, the group was now no match for their assailants even without the use of their guns).
ID, RS, and ZK managed to break free into the darkness. They made a run for the tent, desperate for the axes or anything to help their friends. (Such a level of desperation would explain why they left the group, the shelter, and the fire, when they were so close to freezing that they could only go a few hundred more yards). ZK, a strong and brave young woman came the closest to making it.
As for the group that was left, the soldiers pressed LD and SZ to death, broke YK’s neck, and crushed TBS’s skull, neutralizing them without leaving any obvious weapon mark. (Such a grim scenario would explain the types of injuries sustained by the party members found in the ravine - crushed chests with none of the external cuts or arm injuries that would have certainly happened in a fall, explain why they were all found outside of their nearby shelter, explain the fragment of soldier’s garb found in the ravine, and explain why it was subsequently taken out of evidence). The autopsies of these group members were the most vague, because the coroners had no choice. More detail would have raised still more questions from the community and gotten them in official hot water.
It is significant that YY, who was a part of the group, knew the Dyatlov party’s circumstances better than any living person, and saw all or most of the original evidence, thought that the military had something to do with his friend’s deaths. In 2008, 6 of the original rescuers and a team of 31 experts came to the similar conclusion that military testing was involved. The official report was that the Dyatlov group died at the hands of an “unknown compelling force”. How could words come closer to summarizing the above, without implicating the party responsible? This may also explain why the military closed the area for the following three years.
Any thoughts?
This guy should write a book. His theory is the best thus far. Great job Ian!!
KMM
07-09-2017 19:27 (GMT)
Loose-Cannon - I will start on the link later on tonite, I look forward to reading it. THX again
Sandy
07-09-2017 19:07 (GMT)
You're not quite seeing the "whole" pic. Kind of like you do with your BL passion. I don't see how you can argue a "cover up" when, let's see:
That particular site in the Ural Mountains was CLOSED to, supposedly, everyone for 3 years.
They sealed the files and all the information & kept it all a secret for THIRTY YEARS. That's 3 decades = long time.
They did not investigate this for long. They were told to CLOSE it & they soon did.
It's only been since what? the 90's that it all FINALLY came to light & for people in the U.S. of A. to become aware of it also.
I don't see how you can argue a "cover up" with those 3 facts stated above. Far less things have been done in cover ups. I have no problem believing cops can be "dirty" & will do whatever told if the money's good.
When something is covered up, hushed up, file sealed and closed, for THIRTY years, you might guess some kind of "cover up" is going on.
Right now I"m reading in the 2016 & have found quite an interesting post by Ian, who believes they were also murdered by "soldiers". I'm still in the middle of it.
I think you are blind to the obvious.
Nigel Evans
07-09-2017 18:33 (GMT)
@Sandy - "it was a coverup".
So lets just walk through this, this is Soviet Russia a country famous for putting millions of people in the gulags just for criticising the state, a false word could get you 20 years. But here we have a large investigative effort, a police team and a kgb team being supplied for months by helicopters. All of that to pretend that it wasn't a state coverup? To maintain a deception? I don't think so, the coverup theory just doesn't fit this.
Sandy
07-09-2017 18:10 (GMT)
In 1959 there was a COVER UP. Those 2 questions are the only reasons you can't accept they were murdered by humans? If forensics took a look at the file today, I would imagine they'd agree that most of these hikers were beat to death.
We know there was a cover up since they closed the cases right away, wouldn't let anyone go there for 3 yrs. & kept the files hidden for 30 yrs.?? Perhaps the detective & the pathologist were told what to write & say. Maybe they were offered a great deal of money to write & say what they did. I don't think your 2 questions are important & have nothing to do with nine people's injuries looking as if most of them were beaten & the defensive wounds almost from all show they TRIED to fight back but none of them stood a chance against "the criminals/murderers".
Loose-Cannon
07-09-2017 18:05 (GMT)
KMM.. nevermind. Page loaded slow and didn't see your post. Let us know if you find anything interesting in there.
Loose-Cannon
07-09-2017 18:03 (GMT)
KMM... You get the link?
Sandy
07-09-2017 18:02 (GMT)
Like Loose Cannon says: "They were beat to death". Almost all their injuries keep adding up to this. The only mystery left is WHO and HOW MANY and WTF???
Nigel Evans
07-09-2017 18:01 (GMT)
@Sandy - i'll try just once more with you (given up on the others). Why do you think an experienced police detective who saw everything first hand wrt the DPI doesn't agree with you? Surely it would be in his regular experience to deal with violence, murder etc? Why doesn't an experienced pathologist agree with you?
Sandy
07-09-2017 17:40 (GMT)
I thought posters kept an "open mind" here. All I see for pages and pages is the redundant, STUPID, senseless, impossibility, NO WAY FEASIBLE all nine people DIED from your asinine obsession with BL which I'm assuming I Ball Lightening. I know you've read each of their autopsies & should be intelligent enuf to COMPREHEND what each one states. Almost ALL the hikers were engaged in a hand to hand COMBAT, FIGHTING, BEING ATTACKED, staying in a tree as long as one could b/4 toppling down to avoid someONE, not a BL. They almost all have dried blood on their mouths, abrasions on their faces & it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see they've been in some kind of FIGHT/COMBAT.
Your BL can remove a tongue, take out 2 sets of eyeballs, snap a neck making it deformed, crush chests, crush 3 skulls, one on both sides over & over, break ribs (in Luda's case, almost ALL her ribs on BOTH sides), whack the back of one hiker like a baton, causing her to have a big bruise across her backside & due to the injury, hypothermia set in more quickly.
They just about ALL had skinned knuckles, abrasions to both hands, as if they'd been in a FIGHT. None of them have any signs of being hit by a ball of lightening, fireballs or whatever else is involved in your non-sensical BL theory.
Your BL made them WALK single file down a snowy slope without winter attire to freeze to death? If I was completely terrorized that I would leave a tent in -'20 degree weather without any coat/boots/gloves, I wouldn't be WALKING away from the tent.
It seems as if you entertain no other theories except trying to ram this ridiculous BL theory down our throats here. I honestly can't get this BL of any SORT killing all 9 of these hikers.
I'm not saying this BL doesn't exist, I believe it does and you've certainly proven that by all your links & obsession on your lightening balls/fire balls. It's.absurd.
Here's the problem: There.were.NINE.of.them.
NO WAY NOW or any time, will any kind of fireballs, lightening balls, balls of light, ever KILL a bunch of people. There is nothing in history of this killing off a big GROUP of people with injuries such as the 9. It's not feasible.
You should at least read D.O.T.T. At least it can match all the injuries & offer a great solution as to why they left in taking their time & in like a single file.
KMM
07-09-2017 17:30 (GMT)
THX for the link LC
KMM
07-09-2017 16:28 (GMT)
(Phys.org)—Sightings of ball lightning have been made for centuries around the world – usually the size of a grapefruit and lasting up to twenty seconds
Read more at: https://phys.org/news/2012-10-mystery-ball-lightning.html#jCp https://phys.org/news/2012-10-mystery-ball-lightning.html ......................................... The existence of ball lightning has been hard to confirm by scientists due to the lack of verifiable observations and photographs of the phenomenon. Few will completely deny that ball lightning exists, but those that believe that ball lightning does occur in natural circumstances have not yet been able to formulate conclusive theories. http://stormhighway.com/bl.php ............................................ Ball lightning, also called globe lightning, a rare aerial phenomenon in the form of a luminous sphere that is generally several centimetres in diameter. It usually occurs near the ground during thunderstorms, in close association with cloud-to-ground lightning. It may be red, orange, yellow, white, or blue in colour and is often accompanied by a hissing sound and distinct odour. It normally lasts only a few seconds https://www.britannica.com/science/ball-lightning ........................................... a phenomenon known as “ball lightning”. According to eyewitness reports they last for several seconds, moving through the air before eventually exploding. https://medium.com/looking-up/ball-lightning-b594b6ffea37 ......................................... The numerous accounts of ball lightning – in the past three centuries there have been over 2,000 reports – are contradictory: Observations describe mostly yellowish to reddish balls of up to 20 centimetres in diameter. Their appearance is often attributed to a lightning strike during a thunderstorm. They last for seconds to minutes and vanish quietly or with a bang https://www.ipp.mpg.de/2977926/kugelblitze ......................................... A short-lived glowing ball sometimes observed to float in the air and thought to consist of ionized gas associated with thunderstorms. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ball_lightning ......................................... 3. Lifetime Ball lightnings generally have a lifetime of less than 5 seconds. A small fraction of reports indicate a lifetime of over a minute. http://wiki.wunderground.com/index.php/Educational_-_Ball_lightning ......................................... Ball lightning looks like a floating glowing fuzzy ball of light, usually a few inches to a few feet in diameter. It floats or moves around rooms, airplanes, open areas – and occasionally through solid objects. It usually lasts for a few seconds or, rarely, minutes https://evanhahn.com/ball-lightning/ ..................................................................
I never said it didn't exist, It just does not have the magical properties SOME attribute to it unless they are playing a VIDEO GAME (where it is quite common). Nothing that would cause a group of 8 seasoned hikers to destroy their tent while leaving the other contents inside in reasonable order, all the while forgetting their shoes and warm clothing in -20f weather to WALK a mile, only to be followed by the ball lightning to the cedar tree where it reins death and destruction, then on to the ravine for more death and destruction!
Nigel Evans
07-09-2017 12:07 (GMT)
@LC - good link
Loose-Cannon
07-09-2017 11:46 (GMT)
Oh look, a 4mile long post proving BL exist therefore we must 'weep'. Gimme a freakin break.
Dead birds in photo.... You didn't expect the rescue team to not eat dinner did you? Wow, and this turns inyo 'dead birds everywhere'.
The green cap... Yeah, if you cannot see the FACT its describing the KNOWN HAT found with the sock at the cedar, you need a lesson in common sense. We know these two items existed. You just don't want real evidence and facts to show BL did NOT cause those burns.
@John - "--- any water in / on the tent would flash off at its boiling point (or thereabouts) and so would not heat the molecules (of the other stuff) up enough to cause a change; but a microwave would. "
There was a flask of alcohol in the tent which is unlikely to have survived the heating you're suggesting. I think it was more modest.
John Wolfe
07-09-2017 08:23 (GMT)
re LC : Loose-Cannon 09-02-2017 23:04 (GMT) "dead birds"
Listed under the same section as burnt treetops, warm spot, "rays of warmth" etc.... Right there in the Fireball category without melting anything because it NOW selectively targets objects above a certain height from the ground to be burned etc.
Show me the investigation photographs of these things, or they simply do not exist!
I too would like to see any photos of "burnt tree tops" could never find any mention of photos / but --- dead birds --- from : http://www.viafanzine.jor.br/site_vf/pag/5/dyatlov_part04.htm
"3) Dead birds."
"First responders noticed a large number of dead birds, mainly white ptarmigans, in the forest area where hikers were hiding: in the vicinity of the cedar and the ravine. Consequently, the impact of a deadly force on living organisms would have occurred."
--- this quote is followed by a PHOTO of a rescuer holding two dead birds -- doesn't say much else. To see it go about 1/2 way down the page.
John Wolfe
07-09-2017 07:39 (GMT)
missed these citations :
PREFERENCES Twain M. Letter to an unidentified pawn. 1908. Anon. Maas of fire falls into sea. Scirnce 5:24’2, 20 March 1885, Anon. Electrical phenomena near Weymouth. Nature 1~262, 16 August 1990. Cawkell A E. Personal communication, 4 February 1976, Cade C M. Thunderbolts as the Xweapon. Dticovery 2S:23, November 1962. Argyle E. Ball lightning as an optical illusion. Nature 2S0: 179.80, 1971, Hill E L. Ball lightning. American Scierrtid 58:479, 1970. Charman N. The enigma of ball lightning. New Scientist 566 S2-35, 1972. Altschuler M D. Is ball lightning a nuclear phenomenon? Nature 228:545.46, 1970. Ashby D E T F. & Wbitehead C. Is ball lightning caused by antimatter mcteorim? Nature 230:180.82, 1971. Altschuler M D. Atmsopheric electricity and plasma inte~retations of UFOS, In: Scienh~ic studyof unidentified Jfying obJ”ects, cd. by E.U. Con&n (New York: E.P. Dutton, 1969), Chapter 7. pp. 72 S-55. Uman M A. Some comments on ball lightning. J ,4tmosph Ten Phys 301245-46, 1968. Cttvington A E. Ball lightning. Nature 226:252.55, 1970. Blair A J F. Magnetic fields, ball lightning, and campanology. Nature 243:512, 1973. Kapiras P L. [The nature of globe lightning.] Dokl. Ahud. Nauk SSSR 101:245, 1955. Kapitaa P L. A thermonuclear reactor with a plasma filament freely floating in a hi~hfrequcncy fteld. Sou. Phys JETP 31:199, 1970. Tompkhas D R Jr., Rodney P F & Goading R. A theory of ball lightning, Bull. Amer Phys. Sot. 20:659, 1975 Fieux R, Gary C k Hubert P. Artificially triggered lightning atmve land. Nature 257:212.14, 1975.
John Wolfe
07-09-2017 07:36 (GMT)
re: KMM 09-06-2017 07:04 (GMT) Nigel : Nearly all BL accounts have witnesses else you wouldn't have a report?
I must of missed them. Name me some and the names of the dead. (verifiable)
OK - here's a few -- not that you'd even know how to "verify" them .......
Historical accounts[edit]
It has been suggested that ball lightning could be the source of the legends that describe luminous balls, such as the mythological Anchimayen from Argentinean and Chilean Mapuche culture.
In a 1960 study, 5% of the population of the Earth reported having witnessed ball lightning.[7][8] Another study analyzed reports of 10,000 cases.[7][9]
M. l'abbe de Tressan, in Mythology compared with history: or, the fables of the ancients elucidated from historical records:
… during a storm which endangered the ship Argo, fires were seen to play round the heads of the Tyndarides, and the instant after the storm ceased. From that time, those fires which frequently appear on the surface of the ocean were called the fire of Castor and Pollux. When two were seen at the same time, it announced the return of calm; when only one, it was the presage of a dreadful storm. This species of fire is frequently seen by sailors, and is a species of ignis fatuus. (page 417)
This account, however, shares more commonalities with the St. Elmo's fire phenomenon.[original research?]
Great Thunderstorm of Widecombe-in-the-Moor[edit]
Another early description was reported during the Great Thunderstorm at a church in Widecombe-in-the-Moor, Devon, in England, on 21 October 1638. Four people died and approximately 60 were injured when, during a severe storm, an 8-foot (2.4 m) ball of fire was described as striking and entering the church, having nearly destroyed it. Large stones from the church walls were hurled into the ground and through large wooden beams. The ball of fire allegedly smashed the pews and many windows, and filled the church with a foul sulfurous odour and dark, thick smoke.
The ball of fire reportedly divided into two segments, one exiting through a window by smashing it open, the other disappearing somewhere inside the church. The explanation at the time, because of the fire and sulfur smell, was that the ball of fire was "the devil" or the "flames of hell". Later, some blamed the entire incident on two people who had been playing cards in the pew during the sermon, thereby incurring God's wrath.[1]
The Catherine and Mary[edit]
In December 1726 a number of British newspapers printed an extract of a letter from John Howell of the sloop Catherine and Mary:
As we were coming thro’ the Gulf of Florida on 29th of August, a large ball of fire fell from the Element and split our mast in Ten Thousand Pieces, if it were possible; split our Main Beam, also Three Planks of the Side, Under Water, and Three of the Deck; killed one man, another had his Hand carried of [sic], and had it not been for the violent rains, our Sails would have been of a Blast of Fire.[10][11]
The Montague[edit]
One particularly large example was reported "on the authority of Dr. Gregory" in 1749:
Admiral Chambers on board the Montague, 4 November 1749, was taking an observation just before noon...he observed a large ball of blue fire about three miles distant from them. They immediately lowered their topsails, but it came up so fast upon them, that, before they could raise the main tack, they observed the ball rise almost perpendicularly, and not above forty or fifty yards from the main chains when it went off with an explosion, as great as if a hundred cannons had been discharged at the same time, leaving behind it a strong sulphurous smell. By this explosion the main top-mast was shattered into pieces and the main mast went down to the keel.
Five men were knocked down and one of them very bruised. Just before the explosion, the ball seemed to be the size of a large mill-stone.[2]
Georg Richmann[edit]
A 1753 report depicts ball lightning as having been lethal when professor Georg Richmann of Saint Petersburg, Russia, created a kite-flying apparatus similar to Benjamin Franklin's proposal a year earlier. Richmann was attending a meeting of the Academy of Sciences when he heard thunder and ran home with his engraver to capture the event for posterity. While the experiment was under way, ball lightning appeared and travelled down the string, struck Richmann's forehead and killed him. The ball had left a red spot on Richmann's forehead, his shoes were blown open, and his clothing was singed. His engraver was knocked unconscious. The door frame of the room was split and the door was torn from its hinges.[12]
HMS Warren Hastings[edit]
An English journal reported that during an 1809 storm, three "balls of fire" appeared and "attacked" the British ship HMS Warren Hastings. The crew watched one ball descend, killing a man on deck and setting the main mast on fire. A crewman went out to retrieve the fallen body and was struck by a second ball, which knocked him back and left him with mild burns. A third man was killed by contact with the third ball. Crew members reported a persistent, sickening sulfur smell afterward.[13][14]
Ebenezer Cobham Brewer[edit]
Ebenezer Cobham Brewer, in his 1864 US edition of A Guide to the Scientific Knowledge of Things Familiar, discussed "globular lightning". He describes it as slow-moving balls of fire or explosive gas that sometimes fall to the earth or run along the ground during a thunderstorm. He said that the balls sometimes split into smaller balls and may explode "like a cannon".[15]
Wilfrid de Fonvielle[edit]
In his book Thunder and Lightning,[16] translated into English in 1875, French science writer Wilfrid de Fonvielle wrote that there had been about 150 reports of globular lightning:
Globular lightning seems to be particularly attracted to metals; thus it will seek the railings of balconies, or else water or gas pipes etc, It has no peculiar tint of its own but will appear of any colour as the case may be ... at Coethen in the Duchy of Anhalt it appeared green. M. Colon, Vice-President of the Geological Society of Paris, saw a ball of lightning descend slowly from the sky along the bark of a poplar tree; as soon as it touched the earth it bounced up again, and disappeared without exploding. On 10th of September 1845 a ball of lightning entered the kitchen of a house in the village of Salagnac in the valley of Correze. This ball rolled across without doing any harm to two women and a young man who were here; but on getting into an adjoining stable it exploded and killed a pig which happened to be shut up there, and which, knowing nothing about the wonders of thunder and lightning, dared to smell it in the most rude and unbecoming manner.
The motion of such balls is far from being very rapid – they have even been observed occasionally to pause in their course, but they are not the less destructive for all that. A ball of lightning which entered the church of Stralsund, on exploding, projected a number of balls which exploded in their turn like shells.[17]
Tsar Nicholas II[edit]
Tsar Nicholas II, the last Emperor of Russia, reported witnessing what he called "a fiery ball" while in the company of his grandfather, Tsar Alexander II: "Once my parents were away," recounted the Tsar, "and I was at the all-night vigil with my grandfather in the small church in Alexandria. During the service there was a powerful thunderstorm, streaks of lightning flashed one after the other, and it seemed as if the peals of thunder would shake even the church and the whole world to its foundations. Suddenly it became quite dark, a blast of wind from the open door blew out the flame of the candles which were lit in front of the iconostasis, there was a long clap of thunder, louder than before, and I suddenly saw a fiery ball flying from the window straight towards the head of the Emperor. The ball (it was of lightning) whirled around the floor, then passed the chandelier and flew out through the door into the park. My heart froze, I glanced at my grandfather – his face was completely calm. He crossed himself just as calmly as he had when the fiery ball had flown near us, and I felt that it was unseemly and not courageous to be frightened as I was. I felt that one had only to look at what was happening and believe in the mercy of God, as he, my grandfather, did. After the ball had passed through the whole church, and suddenly gone out through the door, I again looked at my grandfather. A faint smile was on his face, and he nodded his head at me. My panic disappeared, and from that time I had no more fear of storms."[18]
Aleister Crowley[edit]
British occultist Aleister Crowley reported witnessing what he referred to as "globular electricity" during a thunderstorm on Lake Pasquaney[19] in New Hampshire in 1916. He was sheltered in a small cottage when he "noticed, with what I can only describe as calm amazement, that a dazzling globe of electric fire, apparently between six and twelve inches (15–30 cm) in diameter, was stationary about six inches below and to the right of my right knee. As I looked at it, it exploded with a sharp report quite impossible to confuse with the continuous turmoil of the lightning, thunder and hail, or that of the lashed water and smashed wood which was creating a pandemonium outside the cottage. I felt a very slight shock in the middle of my right hand, which was closer to the globe than any other part of my body."[20]
R.C. Jennison[edit]
Jennison, of the Electronics Laboratory at the University of Kent, described his own observation of ball lightning:
I was seated near the front of the passenger cabin of an all-metal airliner (Eastern Airlines Flight EA 539) on a late night flight from New York to Washington. The aircraft encountered an electrical storm during which it was enveloped in a sudden bright and loud electrical discharge (0005 h EST, March 19, 1963). Some seconds after this a glowing sphere a little more than 20 cm in diameter emerged from the pilot's cabin and passed down the aisle of the aircraft approximately 50 cm from me, maintaining the same height and course for the whole distance over which it could be observed.[21]
Other accounts[edit]
Ball lightning entering via the chimney (1886)On 30 April 1877, a ball of lightning entered the Golden Temple at Amritsar, India, and exited through a side door. Several people observed the ball, and the incident is inscribed on the front wall of Darshani Deodhi.[22] On 22 November 1894, an unusually prolonged instance of natural ball lightning occurred in Golden, Colorado, which suggests it could be artificially induced from the atmosphere. The Golden Globe newspaper reported, "A beautiful yet strange phenomenon was seen in this city on last Monday night. The wind was high and the air seemed to be full of electricity. In front of, above and around the new Hall of Engineering of the School of Mines, balls of fire played tag for half an hour, to the wonder and amazement of all who saw the display. In this building is situated the dynamos and electrical apparatus of perhaps the finest electrical plant of its size in the state. There was probably a visiting delegation from the clouds, to the captives of the dynamos on last Monday night, and they certainly had a fine visit and a roystering game of romp."[23] On 22 May 1901 in the Kazakh city of Ouralsk in the Russian Empire (now Oral, Kazakhstan), "a dazzlingly brilliant ball of fire" descended gradually from the sky during a thunderstorm, then entered into a house where 21 people had taken refuge, "wreaked havoc with the apartment, broke through the wall into a stove in the adjoining room, smashed the stove-pipe, and carried it off with such violence that it was dashed against the opposite wall, and went out through the broken window". The incident was reported in the Bulletin of the Societe astronomique de France the following year.[24] In July 1907 the Cape Naturaliste Lighthouse in Western Australia was hit by ball lightning. Lighthouse keeper Patrick Baird was in the tower at the time and was knocked unconscious. His daughter Ethel recorded the event.[25] An early fictional reference to ball lightning appears in a children's book set in the 19th century by Laura Ingalls Wilder.[26] The books are considered historical fiction, but the author always insisted they were descriptive of actual events in her life. In Wilder's description, three separate balls of lightning appear during a winter blizzard near a cast iron stove in the family's kitchen. They are described as appearing near the stovepipe, then rolling across the floor, only to disappear as the mother (Caroline Ingalls) chases them with a willow-branch broom.[27] Pilots in World War II described an unusual phenomenon for which ball lightning has been suggested as an explanation. The pilots saw small balls of light moving in strange trajectories, which came to be referred to as foo fighters. Submariners in WWII gave the most frequent and consistent accounts of small ball lightning in the confined submarine atmosphere. There are repeated accounts of inadvertent production of floating explosive balls when the battery banks were switched in or out, especially if mis-switched or when the highly inductive electrical motors were mis-connected or disconnected. An attempt later to duplicate those balls with a surplus submarine battery resulted in several failures and an explosion.[28] On 6 August 1944, a ball of lightning went through a closed window in Uppsala, Sweden, leaving a circular hole about 5 centimetres (2.0 in) in diameter. The incident was witnessed by residents in the area, and was recorded by a lightning strike tracking system[29] on the Division for Electricity and Lightning Research at Uppsala University.[30] In 1954 Domokos Tar, a physicist, observed a lightning strike during a heavy thunderstorm.[31][32] A single bush was flattened in the wind. Some seconds later a speedy rotating ring (cylinder) appeared in the shape of a wreath. The ring was about 5 metres (16 ft) away from the lightning impact point. The ring's plane was perpendicular to the ground and in full view of the observer. The outer/inner diameters were about 60 and 30 centimetres (24 and 12 in) respectively. The ring rotated quickly about 80 cm (31 in) above the ground. It was composed of wet leaves and dirt and rotated counter clockwise. After seconds the ring became self-illuminated turning increasingly red, then orange, yellow and finally white. The ring (cylinder) at the outside was similar to a sparkler.[33] In spite of the rain, many electrical high voltage discharges could be seen.[34] After some seconds, the ring suddenly disappeared and simultaneously the ball lightning appeared in the middle. Initially the ball had only one tail and it rotated in the same direction as the ring. It was homogeneous and showed no transparency. In the first moment the ball hovered motionless, but then began to move forward on the same line with a constant speed of about 1 metre per second (3.3 ft/s). It was stable and travelled at the same height in spite of the heavy rain and strong wind. After moving about 10 m (33 ft) it suddenly disappeared without any noise. On 10 July 2011, during a powerful thunderstorm, a ball of light with a two-metre (6 ft 7 in) tail went through a window to the control room of local emergency services in Liberec, Czech Republic. The ball bounced from window to the ceiling, then to the floor and back to the ceiling, where it rolled along it for two or three metres. Then it dropped to the floor and disappeared. The staff present in the control room were frightened, smelled electricity and burned cables and thought something was burning. The computers froze (not crashed) and all communications equipment was knocked out for the night until restored by technicians. Aside from damages caused by disrupting equipment, only one computer monitor was destroyed.[35] On Dec 15th 2014, flight BE-6780 (Saab 2000) in the UK experienced ball lightning in the forward cabin just before lightning struck the aircraft nose.[36]
not that you read but here's something you ought to try and read (its short - don't worry):
Thunder is good, thunder is impressive; but it is lightning that does the work. --Mark Twainl Lightning has always terrified and fascinated people. It has also inspired many myths and much superstition. For example, some misinformed people righteously assert that lightning never strikes twice in the same place. Actually, the odds for lightning hitting twice in the same spot are excellent. The conditions that attracted it in the first place--a protninence in a flat area, for example--are likely to attract it again. The Greeks and Remans thought thunderbolts were weapons of the gods. Since scientists have now explained ordinary streak lightning as a high-voltage electrical discharge, people’s fascination has been transferred to the other forms of lightning: sheet lightning, in which no single bolt is visible; St. Elmo’s fire, a glow emitted by charged objects such as airplane wings; and ball lightning (also called ‘‘Kugelblitz’ ‘). Ball lightning is usually described as a moving, luminous sphere which lasts a few seconds and then dies out, either silently or explosively. Ball lightning is probably the most mysterious lightning phenomenon because scientists have utterly failed to explain it. Many researchers have viewed reports of ball lightning with the kind of skepticism and distaste usually reserved for reports of psi phenomena and UFOS. Until recently, scientists even debated the existence of ball lightning--explaining it as hallucination, optical illusion, or observer hysteria. The only evidence for it was anecdotal, mainly from amateur sightings. But reports of ball lightning have appeared in the scientific press for over a century. In 188S, science published this account by a ship’s captain named Waters: “All at once a large mass of fire appeared over the vessel, completely blindlng the spectators; and, as it fell into the sea some fifty yards to leeward, it caused a hissing sound, which was heard above the blast, and made the vessel quiver from stem to stem.”2 In 1930, an anonymous account in Nature reported that “a number of globes of light were seen of the size of billiard balls, extending from a few inches above the surface to a height of 7-8 feet. They slowly rose and fell vertically, sometimes within a few inches of the observers but always eluding the grasp.”3 It is always pleasant for me to demonstrate the creative use of information retrieval. The ball lightning phenomenon, with its combination of mystery and possible utility, is just such an opportunity. I hope that the new generation of science teachers will use the information retrieval techniques described here to get students interested in tracing the history of other scientific discoveries. By using the Science Citation tndefl in this way, students can feel the excitement of discovery as the threads of scientific cloth are unraveled. According to the results of a search by my versatile colleague, A.E. Cawkell,4 an article with the incredL ble title “Thunderbolts as the X-Weapon” appeared in November 1%2 in the now defunct journal Diseavery. The paper, by C. M. Cade, contained this account of an attempt to calculate the energy of ball lightning: “A fireball ‘the size of a large orange’ which was observed in Dorstone, Hereford, on October 3rd, 1936, fell into a water butt containing about four gallons of water, which tilled for some minutes, and 20 minutes later was still too hot for the human hand. From this data, Professor B.L. Goodlet has calculated that the minimum energy of this fireball was 3,800 kilowatt-seconds....”5 Unfortunately, the author supplies no further reference for the mysterious Professor Goodlet. So the detective work begins. As it turns out, we were unable to find anyone who had ever cited Cade’s paper, at least within the 15 years we’ve compiled the SCF’ . But as I’ve often repeated, a name ms,y be all one needs to begin an SCI search. Goodlet’s papers in the J LEE were cited in 1970 by M.D. Altschuler of the National Center for Atmospheric Research, Boulder, Colors@ in 1971 by E. Argyle of the Dominion Radio Astrophysical Observatory, British Columbia; and again in 1971 by P.C. W. Davies of the Institute of Theoretical Astronomy, Cambridge, England. This is shown in the figure opposite, in which we have provided a selected portion of the now extensive ball lightning literature. In 1971, Argyle drew parallels between ball lightning and visual afterimages: “The behavior and apparent properties of the positive afterimage are strikkgly similar to those of ball lightning. Its shape wiU be the same as that of the exciting source, and it will commonly be described as a ball . . . . Positive afterimages last 2-10 seconds, depending on circumstances, and most lightning balls are reported to have a duration in the same range. Positive afterimages dkappear rather suddenly, as do lightning balls.”6 Argyle dismissed Goodlet’s report that water in a rain barrel had been heated by ball lightning as ‘‘unreliable.” Each explanation advanced for the ball lightning phenomenon is unsatisfactory in some respect. Early explanations held that ball lightning is formed by the combustion of material released by a lightning stroke on its impact with the ground. This material, either particles or gases, might be confined by a vortex, in the same manner as a smoke ring. Edward Hill of the University of Minnesota modified this theory to suggest that when a lightning stroke produces a separation of charges in such a ball of material, miniature lightning strokes occur within the ball. T. Neugebauer postulated that ball lightning consists of dense plasma containing large numbers of free electrons and positive ions. Altschuler and his colleagues suggested that ball lightning may be a nuclear phenomenon involving the production of radioactive products, whose beta-decay would cause a glow in surrounding air molecules. A bizarre but not implausible theory was discussed in the same 19 March 1971 issue of Nature in which Argyle’s “optical illusion” article was published. An article by D. E.T.F. Ashby and C. Whitehead of the United Kingdom Atomic Energy Authority suggested that ball lightning is caused by antimatter meteorites which annhilate normal matter, creating a luminous ball. Actually, this idea was first proposed by Ahschuler, who wrote in 1969 that “the hypothesis of antimatter meteorites is intriguing. lf a significant amount of antimatter does exist in the universe, it is possible that tiny grains of antimatter might penetrate our galaxy and collide with the earth’s atmosphere. Entering at high speeds, the grain might survive until it reached the troposphere. A fraction of a microgram of antimatter would destroy an equal mass of matter and release many megajoules of energy, perhaps creating luminous spheres.” The antimatter theory was supported when Ashby and Whitehead, using radiation detectors, observed four ‘‘unusual” radiation events. They concluded that, “The radiation events are consistent with the proposed existence of micron-sized particles of antimatter and their duration is similar to that of ball lightning; however, the correlation with thunderstorms is uncertain.” As the ball lightning phenomenon became more scientifically respectable, two particular “events” began to be discussed by many authors. The first was Jennison’s (University of Kent) 1969 report of a lightning ball passing down the central aisle of an aircraft. Since the plane was a tanker with a full load of aviation fuel, one can imagine the observer’s relief when the yellow-white lightning ball ““danced out over the right wing” and disappeared into the night. The second event was Covington’s (National Research Council of Canada) 1970 observations of a drifting lightning ball which demolished the pile of a wharf, and of another lightning ball which emerged from the fireplace in a lakeside house, traveled across the room, and passed through a closed door without causing any damage. Is The two articles by Argyle and Ashby were cited in several letters to journals in 1971. Argyle’s idea that ball lightning is an optical illusion was rebutted by authors who cited their own and other observers’ welldocumented sightings. Ashby’s antimatter notion had a mixed reception. The UFO phenomenon entered the ball lightning story via AkschuIer’s 1969 article in the Condon UFO report, which explained some UFO sightings as ball lightning. The chapter was cited by several authors. As an exercise in demonstrating that all phenomena and disciplines are somehow connected to one another, the ball lightning story has few equals. In 1973, for example, A.J. P. Blair of Germany used a novel method to calculate the magnetic energy in a lightning ball as 1S0 gauss. Nature carried the report, which stated, “In the parish of Samford-Courtney in Devon on October 7, 1811, a sudden darkness came on, and a tire ball fell in the vicinity of the church. The ringers in the belfry, ringing at the time, declared that they never knew the bells go so heavy, and were obliged to desist ringing. Looking down from the belfry into the church, they perceived four fire balls, which suddenly burst, and the church was fdled with fire and smoke, some of which ascended to the tower, where a large beam, on which one of the bells was hung, was broken, and the gudgeon breaking, the bell fell to the floor.There is also a connection to nuclear fusion in the ball lightning story. In a well-cited 1955 article, the Russian physicist Peter Kapitsa proposed that ball lightning results from a standing wave system in the electromagnetic field which accompanies thunderstorms. Windows and chimneys, through which ball lightning is often reported to have travelled, would act as waveguides for these standing waves. Elements of this idea were later used in a Soviet experimental fusion reactor, and stable balls of plasma were produced. Another theory involves focused cosmic-ray particles, and still another postulates that ball lightning is produced by the decay of ordhary lightning in the presence of large amounts of water. The theoretical situation regarding ball lightning still is rather confused. It has not vet been determined whether ball lightning is a single phenomenon or a series of phenomena with diverse origins. No one has succeeded in producing ball lightning in the laboratory, although a few photographs have been reported. Just a year ago, in a search for photographic evidence of ball lightning, two researchers at the University of Wyoming examined over 10,000 Prarie Meteorite Network photographs which contained images of over 100,000 lightning strokes. They reported tindlng six ball lightning ‘‘caddate” events. “In all of the ball candidate events the scenario is the same: an ordinary appearing lightning stroke ends above ground and what appears to be a ball (producing a sequence of images) falls out of it and goes to earth. ” 17 More recently, photographic evidence of an object “which may be similar to some varieties of ball lightning” was reported in September 1975 by three French authors, R. F;eux and C. Gary of Electricity de France, Direction des Etudes et Recherches, and P. Hubert of Commissariats 2 l’Energie Atomique, Service d’Electronique Physique, Centre d’Etudes Nuc16aires de Saclay. In a kind of reenactment of Benjamin Franklin’s kke-and-key lightning experiment, they launched rockets with wires attached into the atmosphere. This technique was developed, they said, “in the hope of perhaps shedding new light on the controversial subject of ball lightning, since according to published statistics ball lightning is mentioned in more than 40% of the cases in which an observer describes a nearby lightning stroke. ” Although these researchers did not observe anything “comparable with the more remarkable tales of ball lightning folklore,” they did observe and photograph the appearance of luminous “beads” during the decay of triggered lightning. “The beads generally have an initial diameter of the order of 40 cm which decreases gradually with a total lifetime of 0.3s at most. During long-lasting strokes, the initially straight channel adopts on a progressively more tortuous shape and the biggest beads occur where tortuousness is a maximum. Since there is a positive correlation between diameter and lifetime, it follows that at the end of the decay there are one or two luminous balls only. In general these objects have an upward motion of 1 or 2 m s -1, which gives an overall picture consistent with the hypothesis of a gradually cooling spheroid of hot gas. ” In the same paper, the authors lend support to the early theory involving combustion of material released from the ground. They note that “light emission occurred at the foot of wooden posts” in the test area. “The light-emitting region was stationary, in contact with the ground at the place where the post enters the earth. Its shape seems roughly spherical with a diameter of about 25 cm . ...” They comment, “It is not surprising that some underground outgassing occurs and that the gasses escape at the point where the posts puncture the uPPer layer. It remains to be decided whether the light comes from hot gases only or from a combustion involving hydrogen or methane, for instance, or from a localized electric discharge mechanism. ” Just a few weeks ago, Mark Stenhoff of the Physics Department of Royal Holloway College reported a case in which a woman touched and was injured by ball lightning. Stenhoff reported in Nature that on 8 August 1975, the woman, who lives in the Midlands area of England, was in her kitchen during a thunderstorm “when a sphere of light appeared over the cooker. The ball twas z 10 cm across and surrounded by a flame-colored halo; its color was bright blue to purple. The ball moved straight towards the witness at an estimated height of 95 cm from the ground. Burning heat was felt, and there was a singeing smell. A sound something like a“rattle was heard.”19 The woman herself reported that, “The ball seemed to hit me below the belt, as it were, and I automatically brushed it from me and it just disappeared. Where 1 brushed it away there appeared a redness and swelling on my left hand. It seemed as if my gold wedding ring was burning into my finger. ” The lightning ball produced a hole in the woman’s dress and underwear at the point where it struck her. Her legs became red and numb. The woman, who had never before heard of ball lightning, felt that the ball exploded just as she touched it. Commenting on this report in a Nature editorial, P.C. W. Davies notes that progress in ball lightning research is hampered by the lack of precise, reliable observational data. He suggests that, “The present unsatisfactory situation would be greatly improved if the aura of mystery and superstition surrounding unusual aerial events were dispelled. Good, detailed eye-witness reports of luminous balls are frequently made by competent ob-, servers such as airline pilots, but are rarely passed on to scientists. Instead, many of them find their way into miiitary tiles, where they are shrouded in a ridiculous secrecy. (Incredibly, the British Ministry of Defence continues to deny scientists access to their accounts of these events. ) With proper cooperation between scientists and the public, particularly the local press, and the civil aircraft authorities, it would be possible to follow up ball lightning reports rapidly, enabling tests for radioactivity and so forth to be carried out. “20 To help clarify the situation, a few individuals have turned their energies to collecting ball lightning rep&-ts. One of these is William Corliss of Glen Arm, Maryland, a consultant to NASA who has compiled Strange Phenomena, Zf a ‘‘sourcebook” which contains abstracts of 75 ball lightning reports. Also notable is the ball lightning bibliography compiled by J.D. Barry of the US Air Force’s Space and Missile Systems Organization, Los Angeles. This bibliography, copies of which are available from the author, cites over 1,100 ball lightning reports and references spanning 3S0 years.22 Another excellent source of information on the scientific history of ball lightning is a book published in 1971, The Nature of Ball Lightning by Stanley Singer, director of Athenex Research Associates, Pasadena, Califomia. According to Singer, Faraday felt that any relation between ball lightning and streak lightning was “more than doubtful, ” and Lord Kelvin held that ball lightning was nothing more than an optical illusion. Returning to the 1962 article by Cade, we’ve been unable to find any other articles about “X-Weapons.” Maybe the idea was impractical--or maybe the work was so successful that it was classified. What surprises me most about the ball lightning story is the failure of any leading American or Soviet journal to present a comprehensive discussion of this area of research. The state of the literature on ball lightning is similar to Shakespeare’s description of Romeo and Juliet’s love: It is too rash, too unadvis ‘d, too sudden: Too like the lightning; which cloth cease to be Ere one can say it lightens.
PREFERENCES Twain M. Letter to an unidentified pawn. 1908. Anon. Maas of fire falls into sea. Scirnce 5:24’2, 20 March 1885, Anon. Electrical phenomena near Weymouth. Nature 1~262, 16 August 1990. Cawkell A E. Personal communication, 4 February 1976, Cade C M. Thunderbolts as the Xweapon. Dticovery 2S:23, November 1962. Argyle E. Ball lightning as an optical illusion. Nature 2S0: 179.80, 1971, Hill E L. Ball lightning. American Scierrtid 58:479, 1970. Charman N. The enigma of ball lightning. New Scientist 566 S2-35, 1972. Altschuler M D. Is ball lightning a nuclear phenomenon? Nature 228:545.46, 1970. Ashby D E T F. & Wbitehead C. Is ball lightning caused by antimatter mcteorim? Nature 230:180.82, 1971. Altschuler M D. Atmsopheric electricity and plasma inte~retations of UFOS, In: Scienh~ic studyof unidentified Jfying obJ”ects, cd. by E.U. Con&n (New York: E.P. Dutton, 1969), Chapter 7. pp. 72 S-55. Uman M A. Some comments on ball lightning. J ,4tmosph Ten Phys 301245-46, 1968. Cttvington A E. Ball lightning. Nature 226:252.55, 1970. Blair A J F. Magnetic fields, ball lightning, and campanology. Nature 243:512, 1973. Kapiras P L. [The nature of globe lightning.] Dokl. Ahud. Nauk SSSR 101:245, 1955. Kapitaa P L. A thermonuclear reactor with a plasma filament freely floating in a hi~hfrequcncy fteld. Sou. Phys JETP 31:199, 1970. Tompkhas D R Jr., Rodney P F & Goading R. A theory of ball lightning, Bull. Amer Phys. Sot. 20:659, 1975 Fieux R, Gary C k Hubert P. Artificially triggered lightning atmve land. Nature 257:212.14, 1975. 19. Stenhoff M. Ball lightning. Nature 2~5552):596-97, 15 April 1976. 20. Davies P C W. Ball lightning. Nature 260(5552) :57S, 15 April 1976. $!1. Corlh W R. (compiler) Stra~e PhenomenaGlen Arm, Maryland: Corliss, 1974. 22. Barry J D. Bibliography of ball lightning rcpsa. f Atmo#sh. Terr. Phys. S&1577, 1974. 23. Singer S. The nature OJ ball Itj@tnsisg (New York: Plenum Prcra,1971) 169pp. 24. Shakespeare W. Romeo andJtdiet Act 2, Scene 2.
there you go - read'emandweep !
John Wolfe
07-09-2017 07:09 (GMT)
re: KMM 09-06-2017 07:45 (GMT) Tunguska 1908 The explosion released enough energy to kill reindeer and flatten trees for many kilometers around the blast site. But no crater was ever found.
Sounds like ball lightning to me ! 8-)
--- actually, you are right even though you thought you were making a little joke (very little). The Tunguska explosion was the result of an AIR BURST ! like the proverbial ball lightning you detest --- the hypothesis is that some of the BL can explode in an AIR BURST --- waddiyaknow ..... you and agree on something !
John Wolfe
07-09-2017 07:01 (GMT)
re LC : "Near the fire, a half-burnt sock and a cowboy shirt were found. In the shirt money - 8 rubles. Semi-burnt helmet of greenish color. North of the fire at a distance of one meter head to the west, legs to the east near the corpses lie in the number of two."
--- you once again missed the point --- not that you can't approximately decipher the meaning --- but that the translator can't even make a sentence --- I POINT OUT THAT YOU SUPPLIED THE VERB MAKING THE SENTENCE MAKE SENSE: "In this case the statement is referring to the cap FOUND on the scene." or conversely it could supply a connective to the previous sentence. such as "and a" So we don't always know if we are interpreting the translator correctly.
John Wolfe
07-09-2017 06:28 (GMT)
re: the link itself is OK but the images are not (as far as I can tell) DO NOT CLICK ON THE IMAGES !
John Wolfe
07-09-2017 06:17 (GMT)
Hi Nigel;
re: " don't think the canvas could be tested for microwaves other than showing it's been exposed to heat via water content heating up. "
--- there might be some subtle changes in molecular structure -- of coating, of dyes, of glues, perhaps the canvas -- a thing like flipping the position of a bond and bending a molecule into a different shape would show up. What I don't know is can someone get samples of the original materials that the cloth was treated with --- un-irradiated --- to compare with the tent.
--- any water in / on the tent would flash off at its boiling point (or thereabouts) and so would not heat the molecules (of the other stuff) up enough to cause a change; but a microwave would.
KMM
07-09-2017 04:46 (GMT)
Loose-Cannon 06-09-2017 22:39 (GMT) KMM... Cotcha, no worries (thumbs up)
YES, please post that link. THX
Loose-Cannon
06-09-2017 22:54 (GMT)
I would like to setup a forum discussion board for this topic for all interested. However, I do not wish to be the sole dictator and own the domain name and have control over the hosting/cpanel etc. I have alot of experience with this. If anyone already has about 3gigs avail space on an existing host and is interested, please let me know. Here is one of my works... Over 600 members. http://sks-files.com/index.php there is also a bunch of features you cannot see until you are a member. It can be setup in just about a day. Contributors can post information to be stickied, all related case files can be stored for easy access etc. The possibilities are endless. But I won't be the boss and owner.... Someone else can be administrator in chief.
Loose-Cannon
06-09-2017 22:39 (GMT)
KMM... Cotcha, no worries (thumbs up)
That was kinda the point in posting it. All kinds of tidbits can be obtained from the original case files. They are actually more thorough then I had previously thought. Do you want me to post the link to the viewable files so you can read the real deal?
KMM
06-09-2017 19:53 (GMT)
As for nigel not responding to my comments, I couldn't care less. Nigel can't answer the hard questions, he needs the easy ones that their is no obvious answer for. Allowing him to pull out the magical BL wand and ascribe to it any property or action that he deems necessary!
KMM
06-09-2017 18:46 (GMT)
KMM 06-09-2017 05:12 (GMT) LC : Is there something specific here you are pointing out ? besides the part about the green helmet I probably skimmed over in my readings
And LC, I responded to your comment because I thought we could discuss something maybe you had noticed in the "original files.
KMM
06-09-2017 17:12 (GMT)
Sure would be nice to have two boards, one for the people that don't know what happened to the hikers, and another one for the people with ALL the answers.
KMM
06-09-2017 16:54 (GMT)
When I first started posting here, I thought this was a place where a person could ask questions, get answers, debate, a general place to hash out ideas. Boy, was I wrong ,here are the 1st 2 replies I received to a question I had asked :
"sorry if my years if study intimidates you -- that's your problem not mine." "Once again: read ALL of my posts as I have already answered many of these questions before"
Didn't take me long to drop to this level
Seems it has to be about BL, the way I see it the BL people have ONLY 2 things to point to, "someone has seen lights in the sky" and what I take to be some damaged or accidental exposures. Everybody has a right to their own opinion. But when you go to attacking me, your going to get it back. (probably not the best way to be) It seems every comment has to be about the God BL and BL explains EVERYTHING ! It feels like your being indoctrinated into a cult !!!
Loose-Cannon
06-09-2017 14:45 (GMT)
"I'm considering just not responding to you or KMM anymore because you're just dragging the quality of the conversation into ignorant idiot territory."
There ya go... Take your ball and go home because you don't agree with someone while bullying them with names. Simply because you do not like what your hearing doesn't constitute a decline in conversation quality. You Nigel, have just as much part in all this as I do. Its still a free country Nigel, do as you please. BTW... You have posted alot of stuff and its hard to keep track of exactly what you do or do not subscribe to, but I do recall alot of assigning burns to BL.
What clothing articles were burned by the stove?
Nigel Evans
06-09-2017 13:51 (GMT)
@LC - as much as i hate getting into cheap pantomime "oh yes it is, oh no it isn't" i have to yet again point out that you're talking rubbish because you never read anything that's posted. Search for "concussed or unattended" should be 4 posts most of them recent where i specifically point out the existence of the fire creates ambiguity as to the origin of the burns. The clothing is of course even more ambiguous because (as i've also pointed out) the stove had a habit of burning drying clothing. I'm considering just not responding to you or KMM anymore because you're just dragging the quality of the conversation into ignorant idiot territory. We really need a BB where people can filter others out.
Loose-Cannon
06-09-2017 12:38 (GMT)
Why am I not surprised.... The first step to recovery is admitting not all aspects of the case have to involve BL.
You... By default, were the one explaining away burns having 'had' to be made via fireball. They were only 1m away from the fire btw...
Nigel Evans
06-09-2017 08:36 (GMT)
@LC - if you had a point to make in that last post - 06-09-2017 08:25 i missed it...
Loose-Cannon
06-09-2017 08:25 (GMT)
Hi Nigel and KMM!
"Near the fire, a half-burnt sock and a cowboy shirt were found. In the shirt money - 8 rubles. Semi-burnt helmet of greenish color. North of the fire at a distance of one meter head to the west, legs to the east near the corpses lie in the number of two."
Now, anyone having an issue with the context of these statements is just a full blown retard. If you ever bother to look at the original case files instead of having your head up each others ballsack, you will know what was found where. In this case the statement is referring to the cap found on the scene. Further more it tells the condition of said cap which I will leave to Nigel yo tell you whom it belonged to and why it was burnt and the head/hair was slightly burnt ...... Being found next to a god damn fire that is.
"The right leg is undressed, on the left is a torn brown sock identical to the detected half-burned near the fire."
Well lookie there... The left leg wearing the matching sock to the burnt sock found next to the fire. Interesting to note, Nigel would have one believe "oh they were drying their cloths over a fire for days". Unfortunately... Per the facts, the investigators made no extra mention to the other articles of clothing being burned. Now, you can run around the facts all day long but you know, and I know... That these items were addressed in a spicific condition because the condition was not of the others. In other words, this is NOT regular old drying of clothes.
You have a burned head and cap, you have a burned leg and sock. All next to a FIRE (which had pretty large half burned branches btw). The extent some have gone to twist the burned leg and head into being cosmic rays, BL electrical burns and the like are just plain false. Having the integrity to admit common sense can go a long freaking way is another matter.
Again.... Read the original case files. They are THE ONLY known documented facts we have. No fantastical conjecture required. The facts shown above are basic, and other examples are quite abundant within the evidence if you ditch the tunnel vision for just a moment.
@john. Just stop trolling me and being a baby. Your BL theory is no more important then any of the others, and your not convincing anyone otherwise by posting a buncha crap stating BL exists.
KMM
06-09-2017 08:24 (GMT)
DAMN, Someone beat me to it, as Nigel has pointed out. I thought I would be famous.
KMM
06-09-2017 08:19 (GMT)
My new theory on Tunguska, SUPER DUPER - ball lightning! evidence : some people reported seeing a light in the sky! If anyone has a camera from that period that laid out in the snow and water for 3 months, PLEASE send it to me. How can anyone doubt me with this kind of evidence ?
Tunguska 1908 The explosion released enough energy to kill reindeer and flatten trees for many kilometers around the blast site. But no crater was ever found.
Sounds like ball lightning to me ! 8-)
KMM
06-09-2017 07:22 (GMT)
Nigel : I'd like to connect the burnt clothing with BL but the stove prevents this.
Why should that stop you, nothing else ever has !
KMM
06-09-2017 07:18 (GMT)
nigel Nearly all BL accounts have witnesses else you wouldn't have a report?
I've read LOTS of witness reports about alien abductions, ghosts, bigfoot, sea monsters, so yeah,............
KMM
06-09-2017 07:11 (GMT)
You could have a field day with the Franklin expedition if it wasn't for the notes left behind or those pesky Inuit witnesses. I'm sure the Inuit have lots of stories to tell about "lights in the night sky" Donner party ? nope survivors. Definite Indain stories about strange lights
KMM
06-09-2017 07:04 (GMT)
Nigel : Nearly all BL accounts have witnesses else you wouldn't have a report?
I must of missed them. Name me some and the names of the dead. (verifiable)
Nigel Evans
06-09-2017 06:54 (GMT)
@John - don't think the canvas could be tested for microwaves other than showing it's been exposed to heat via water content heating up.
@KMM - " You could use BL theory on any group that died with no survivors and no witnesses, but it has never worked where someone has survived. YOU EVER WONDER WHY ? " Lots of accounts on this site with witnesses. Nearly all BL accounts have witnesses else you wouldn't have a report?
@LC - if it's the burnt clothing the problem here is that they've spent a week drying their clothing on the stove and regularly burning it if the person on watch wasn't attentive. Hence photo of burnt jacket. I'd like to connect the burnt clothing with BL but the stove prevents this.
John Wolfe
06-09-2017 06:06 (GMT)
once again I want to warn you do not go to that site I listed on the comment: John Wolfe 09-05-2017 17:43 (GMT) --- the images are so poor, you want to click on them to try to get a better image -- but -- if you click on them you get an enlarged image -- and a redirect. Its malware !
KMM
06-09-2017 05:56 (GMT)
"trouble is what I see is a bad auto translation" "What's your "theory" about the snow melted into ice?"
Why does bad translation figure into LCs comment BUT not what you post woofie ??
KMM
06-09-2017 05:38 (GMT)
Its got to be all about that ball lightning BS, You could use BL theory on any group that died with no survivors and no witnesses, but it has never worked where someone has survived. YOU EVER WONDER WHY ?
John Wolfe
06-09-2017 05:16 (GMT)
once again: ( re: LC post of original material -- "How about look at the original case files?" ) trouble is what I see is a bad auto translation ......
exactly what does "Semi-burnt helmet of greenish color. " mean ?? Its not even close to a sentence. (not that LC would notice)
or what does : "legs to the east near the corpses lie in the number of two" mean ???
is that clear ?..... or what ? --- I'm going with what. What we know for sure that is --- numerous reports of something like ball lightning, accompanied by reports of explosions --- by numerous people and groups, spanning over a hundred years in time -- IN THAT AREA ! People who had no reason to even know each other existed -- no plot to confuse anyone -- they simply were reporting what they saw and heard -- ball lightning. (or whatever you want to call it) As for people who are just dead set on a murder plot -- put up or shut up -- show us some evidence. You're wasting precious digital space with your malarkey -- show me a decent translation to make sense out of. Otherwise you're just trying to waste our time with BS. What's your "theory" about the snow melted into ice? Yeti with flame-throwers? Martian landing craft ? Any reports of those in the last 100 years ? Do you seriously think the starved-for-cash-Soviet-Government tested some sort of secret weapon which no one has ever heard of (nor ever seen) by killing very expensive students of science and engineering ? ? ? You're out of your nut !
KMM
06-09-2017 05:12 (GMT)
LC : Is there something specific here you are pointing out ? besides the part about the green helmet I probably skimmed over in my readings
Loose-Cannon
06-09-2017 04:24 (GMT)
Just a crazy wild ars idea.... How about look at the original case files? Strange concept I know...
"near the cedar in 2 - 2,5 meters are broken off dry branches. The branches are broken off and on the cedar itself. Under the cedar in the pit found traces of the fire, as evidenced by half-burnt branches. Near the fire, a half-burnt sock and a cowboy shirt were found. In the shirt money - 8 rubles. Semi-burnt helmet of greenish color. North of the fire at a distance of one meter head to the west, legs to the east near the corpses lie in the number of two. Identified: Krivonischenko Yuri Alekseevich face up, wearing a shirt cowboy, torn pants. The head is thrown back, the eyes are closed, the mouth is closed, the lips are compressed, the right hand is thrown behind the head, the left arm is bent, the hand is raised above the chest. The right leg is extended, the left leg is slightly bent at the knees. The right leg is undressed, on the left is a torn brown sock identical to the detected half-burned near the fire."
See anything interesting Nigel??
John Wolfe
06-09-2017 03:44 (GMT)
WARNING !! that site I posted about electrical properties takes over your screen-view ---- you have to hold the pointer at the top of the screen and then pull down (tools?) (sorry) and click "off" the checked auto hide -- and then click "restore" in the same pull down.
don't know why they would do this -- does it do same to you ? There could be other stuff its doing so I suggest we boycott that site. --- also its listed under google groups so if anyone knows how to report it to google let me know.
John Wolfe
06-09-2017 03:35 (GMT)
Hi Nigel (and Anna) and others who are interested in the ball lightning thing: I don't want to eliminate that "electrical" theory on that web-page, as some of the observations about the electrical structure of surrounding hills and land might contribute to this BL; which no one really understands. WHAT THE HECK IS IT ? Could it be that the electrical properties of those hills is what creates the BL ? That they are a necessary condition ?
also, Nigel : I've posted that wiki on microwave burns twice (and noted yours) --- I was wondering if, given today's technology what the material of the tent might show -- I wonder what tests we have now that we didn't have in the 1950's -- for instance, could intense microwaves (or other electrical) cause a detectable chemical change in the cloth / dyes / ducking (the waterproofing) that we might look for; maybe with a gas chromatograph, or a mass spectrometer of some sort, including magnetic.
Loose-Cannon
06-09-2017 00:27 (GMT)
"The nice atmosphere and the constructive dialogue here are in abundance."
You can thank the arrogant narcissist assmonkey bottom dwelling cheeto-stained wife-beater wearing Mr. I-am-the-authority so don't have a differing opinion or I will conduct myself like a little titty-baby whiny-crybaby pissy-pants toddler.
Heck, the BL theory actually had 'some' credibility before John the Narcissist started ridiculing those who do not lick his toes while he googles fireballs. 99% of the BL discussion has been spent posting needless crap in a self indulging need to prove BL exist. We know it exists you asshat but unfortunately for you, its very existence does NOT in anyway prove jack squat in regards to what happened to the Dyatlov group. All I see here is a narrow-minded echo chamber with a few folks that utterly cannot think outside the box and consider ALL possibilities. Shame really... Perhaps I should start a 'real' forum on my hosted server split into numerous theory sections and completely ban arrogant twits who attempt to bully people out of free thought. Wouldn't be the first time. (thumbs up).
Anna Yordanova
05-09-2017 21:27 (GMT)
The nice atmosphere and the constructive dialogue here are in abundance.
Nigel Evans
05-09-2017 21:02 (GMT)
@KMM - autobiographical in the extreme?
KMM
05-09-2017 20:55 (GMT)
Here, I did it for you :
How Narcissists See Themselves
1. I love myself and I know you do, too; in fact, everyone does—I can’t imagine anyone that doesn’t.
2. I have no need to apologize. You, however, must understand, accept, and tolerate me no matter what I do or say.
3. I have few equals in this world, and so far, I have yet to meet one. I am the best (manager, businessman, lover, student, etc. . . .).
4. Most people don’t measure up. Without me to lead, others would flounder.
5. I appreciate that there are rules and obligations, but those apply mostly to you because I don’t have the time or the inclination to abide by them. Besides, rules are for the average person, and I am far above average.
6. I hope you appreciate all that I am and everything that I have achieved for you—because I am wonderful and faultless.
7. I do wish we could be equals, but we are not and never will be. I will remind you with unapologetic frequency that I am the smartest person in the room and how well I did in school, in business, as a parent, etc., and you must be grateful.
8. I may seem arrogant and haughty, and that’s OK with me—I just don’t want to be seen as being like you.
9. I expect you to be loyal to me at all times, no matter what I do; however, don’t expect me to be loyal to you in any way.
10. I will criticize you and I expect you to accept it, but if you criticize me, especially in public, I will come at you with rage. One more thing: I will never forget or forgive, and I will pay you back one way or another—because I am a “wound collector.”
11. I expect you to be interested in what I have achieved and in what I have to say. I, on the other hand am not at all interested in you or in what you have achieved, so don’t expect much curiosity or interest from me about your life. I just don’t care.
12. I am not manipulative; I just like to have things done my way, no matter how much it inconveniences others or how it makes them feel. I actually don’t care how others feel—feelings are for the weak.
13. I expect gratitude at all times, for even the smallest things I do. As for you, I expect you to do as I demand.
14. I only associate with the best people, and frankly, most of your friends don’t measure up.
15. If you would just do what I say and obey, things would be better.
Nigel Evans
05-09-2017 20:06 (GMT)
Hi John, ommiserations with the keyboard.
Just pointing out what i said back then :- "@Rol88 - coming back to you wrt the electrical burns in the tent and there being no sign of burning on the tent or it's contents. What if their injuries were not electrical burns but microwave burns? - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_burn This explains how they were injured in the tent without any burning elsewhere. The tent fabric would perhaps have got hot but not enough to discolour as it would take longer to heat up being colder and with a covering of snow, the damp cavities within the bamboo pole heated quickly and split it. Perhaps the radiation was only intense at one end of the tent as the BL passed near, just affecting the pole and two occupants who in effect shielded the others. Now you have your reason for cutting the tent open and getting everyone out as fast as possible."
Yes the mezoeletric stuff is interesting and the looo.ch site talks of anomolous terrain interfering with radar. Could all be true, but i think given the global reports of UFO activity that this phenomena or something similar can be induced solely by atmospheric effects.
KMM
05-09-2017 19:09 (GMT)
John Wolfe 05-09-2017 17:50 (GMT) I just googled my favorite term
........... "brainless trolls"
You should look up "Narcissism" and refusing to admit when you are wrong !
Holy FireBall KMM!!!! Were did you take this? Were you scared? Did it melt your face off? How many skulls did it bash in and concave? How many victims.... Please say 9!!
Wow, I wish John Pantywaist would show us what his favorite google search term for the day was........wait, never mind.
Do any of you know that the way your microwave oven works is largely by heating the water molecules in the food you are cooking/heating. With this in mind -- the microwave damage to skin should be minimal --- unless the skin is WET ! You know, like if you were outside, with exposed skin, in a snowstorm.
Human body is like 50-65% water. Don't you think it would show internal damage ?
John Wolfe
04-09-2017 20:24 (GMT)
that Loose Shorts guy is gonna hate me ...... here's some more thoughts on ........ BALL-LIGHTNING ! (what else) This is from Wikipedia. I've been trying to read about microwave injuries as I'm thinking about how BL might be formed (by a cavitation magnetron at the end of an ion streamer -- no, you don't know what it is, but here is what wiki mentioned in one case of microwave exposure -- 600W for about five seconds on hands and forearm) :
"On July 29, 1977, H.F., a 51-year-old teacher, was attempting to remove a casserole dish from her new 600-watt microwave oven. The oven signaled the end of the heating cycle, but the light and the cooking blower were on. During retrieval of the dish, she inserted two thirds of her bare forearms into the oven, for a total time of about five seconds. The oven was still operating. She felt "hot pulsating sensation" and burning in fingers and fingernails and a sensation of "needles" over the exposed areas. Jabbing pain, swelling, and RED-ORANGE DISCOLORATION of dorsal sides of both hands and forearms appeared shortly afterwards."
--- I don't know if this explains any of the discoloration seen in the 9 hikers --- but it might.
recall from my previous post -- that there was MELTED SNOW at the tent area for about 20 or 30 meters which turned the snow into ice --- ALSO --- searchers report that various small items of clothing were (blown from the tent area? and) locked into melted snow --- so tell me this --- how did this happen ? How did snow melt into water (and then re-freeze into ice -- in several large, many meters wide spherical patterns ) when it was night in a Siberian blizzard with high winds and snow falling and it was somewhere between minus 20 and minus 30 centigrade ? ... ON A MOUNTAIN SIDE ?
Do any of you know that the way your microwave oven works is largely by heating the water molecules in the food you are cooking/heating. With this in mind -- the microwave damage to skin should be minimal --- unless the skin is WET ! You know, like if you were outside, with exposed skin, in a snowstorm.
Loose-Cannon
04-09-2017 16:36 (GMT)
Protocol inspection Labasa
March 2, 1959 Camp search party in the Upper stream of the river. Auspii Prosecutor prosecutor of the Prosecutor's Office of the Sverdlovsk Region Ivanov, in the presence of the head of the search party, Comrade Maslennikov (Sverdlovsk, Zavodskaya Str. 32), and Slobtsov Boris Efimovich (Sverdlovsk, Lenin Str., 13a, apt. 23) with the 78th CPC pcfsr this protocol is as follows: On this day, in the upper reaches of the Auspii rivers, under the pass to the Lozvu River, a storage unit (food store) of the Dyatlov group was found. Labaz is located on the site of the group's overnight stay, it is well closed with cooked firewood, covered with cardboard, pine paws. At the store, skis are stuck in the snow, one pair, on the toe of the skis hang torn leggings.
Sheet 9 - 2 -
The following quantity of products was found during the excavation of the storage:
1. Condensed milk 2.5 kg. 2. Meat canned in cans 4 kg. 3. Sugar - 8 kg. 4. Butter - 4 kg. 5. Boiled sausages - 4 kg. 6. Salt - 1,5 kg. 7. Kissel-compote - 3 kg. 8. Oatmeal porridge and buckwheat 7.5 kg. 9. Cocoa 200 g . 10. Coffee - 200 g. 11. Tea - 200 g . 12. Koreake - 3 kg. 13. Milk powder - 1 kg. 14. Sugar sand - 3 kg. 15. Rusks - 7 kg and noodles - 5 kg. 16. In addition, it was found: a mandolin, a pair of shoes 41 size, and in them wearing socks, a pair of warm shoes, a set of fasteners, 2 batteries mounted with a light bulb for lighting.
Sheet 10 - 3 -
According to Blinov, warm boots belong to Dyatlov. Since the products are not of interest for the investigation, they were transferred to the head of the party, Comrade Maslennikov, as an emergency supply. All the containers from the foodstuffs, as well as the mandolin, 2 pairs of shoes, socks and bindings are withdrawn. The protocol is read, written correctly.
Protocol No. 1 of the identification of things Krivonischenko Inventory of things, Sverdlovsk, March 30, 1959 Prosecutor-criminalist of the Prosecutor's Office of the Sverdlovsk region, ml. counselor of justice Ivanov in the presence of witnesses Yudin Yuri Efimovich, student UPI, gr. I-480 and Khamova Galina Nikolaevna, UPI, gr. C-344, presented Krivonischenko Igor Alekseevich - the brother of Krivonischenko, the fugitive GA. personal equipment that is supposed to belong to G. Krivonischenko. Krivonischenko, after examining the equipment presented, said that his brother, Krivonischenko Georgiy, owned the following items: 1. The backpack is black, old, with long protective-colored belts sewn with black threads. 2. A hood made of blue staple satin. 3. Compass, string, badges "hiker" and "Second Sports category." 4. Mandolin in a white sac. 5. Gauntlets made of decorative fabric. 6. The balaclava is gray. 7. Fur stockings - 1 pair. 8. The blue shirt is burnt. 9. White white shirt, cowboy. 10. Suit-Storm and trousers. All of the above things Krivonischenko Igor Alex. Identified firmly. The protocol is recorded correctly. Signatures: 1. Kryvonischenko, 2. Khamov, 3. Yudin. Prosecutor-criminalist Ivanov (signature).
Sheet 234
Receipt
Me, Krivonischenko I.A. Items listed in this protocol are listed from No. 1 to No. 11. Signed: Krivoyshchenko. In addition, Krivonischenko I. identified and received an ax, a flask, winter three-fingered gloves. Signed by: Krivonischenko. In addition, Kivonischenko identified and received a blanket of old, red-brown, cloth, signature (Krivonischenko). In addition, Krivonischenko identified black felt boots, old ones, sewn with a thick layer of gray koshma. Valenki received on April 7, 1959 Signed (Krivonischenko).
Sheet 235
Protocol of identification of things No. 2, Sverdlovsk, March 30, 1959 Prosecutor criminalist of the Prosecutor's Office of the Sverdlovsk region, ml. Counselor of Justice Ivanov, this date in the presence of witnesses: Yudin Yuri Efimovich, I-480 and Khamova GN, gr. C-344 presented Blinov gr. F-5 personal equipment of dead hikers. Blinov Yu.A., after inspecting the equipment, said that IA Dyatlov. belongs to the iron stove. Doroshenko Yu.N. belongs (presumably) a new blue Vigonia sweater (Blinov knows that before leaving for the trek Doroshenko bought some sweater). Kolevatov A. belong: buckets in the amount of 2 pcs. The record is correct, the signatures are: 1, Blinov, 2. Khamov, 3. Yudin, Pr-r to Ivanov.
Sheet 236
Protocol of identification of things No. 3, Sverdlovsk, March 30, 1959. Prosecutor-criminalist of the Prosecutor's Office of the Sverdlovsk Region, ml. counselor of justice Ivanov, this day in the presence of witnesses: Yudin Yuri Efimovich, student of UPT, gr. I-480 and Hamova Galina Nikolaevna, UPI, gr. C-344, presented by Pyatnitskiy Pyatnitsky. - the sister of the deceased IA Dyatlov. Personal equipment, which is supposed to belong to IA Dyatlov. R.Dyatlova having examined the presented equipment, has declared, that its brother - Igor Dyatlov belong the following things: 1. Fur sleeveless, 2. Jacket leather fur. 3. Svitre blue, paper. 4. Mitten black suede. 5. Boots are black, cloth. 6. Compass, glasses with a case, a knife. 7. Panties are black. 8. Winter cap knitted, woolen, 9. Storm. 10. Cowboy. 11. Sharovars, - brown and green. 12. The shirt is blue. All of the above items Dyatlov RA. identified firmly. Signatures: 1.Dyatlova, 2. Khamov, 3.Yudin. Prosecutor-criminalist Ivanov (signature).
Sheet 237
Receipt. By me, Dyatlova R.A. things listed in this protocol are things from 1 to 12 and the stove specified in protocol No. 2. Signed by: Dyatlova. G. Pervouralsk, Sadovaya, 13, Alexey Alexandrovich Dyatlov. (postscript)
Sheet 238
Protocol of identification of things No. 4, Sverdlovsk, March 30. Prosecutor-criminalist of the prosecutor's office of the Sverdlovsk region, ml. counselor of justice Ivanov, this day in the presence of witnesses: Yudin Yuri Efimovich, student of UPT, gr. I-480 and Hamova Galina Nikolaevna, UPI, gr. C-344, showed Radosteva Galina Grigorievna - student gr. P-462 personal equipment, which is supposed to belong to Kolmogoroy Zina. Радостева, having examined the presented equipment, has curtailed, that Kolmogorova belong the following things: 1. The blouse is woolly variegated. 2. Handkerchief with a hem. 3. Scarf is red woolen. 4. Mittens are blue woolen. 5. Cowboy. 6. T-shirt with a fur collar, with a hood. 7. Storm, canvas. Green. Personal. 8. Black wool socks. 9. Blanket blue from 10 stud. Shells. 10. The gloves are black. Wrapped in green canvas, white socks trimmed with the same. 11. Svitre blue, woolen. 12. Trousers for skiing. 13. Caps red woolen and blue. 14. The cowards are gray. 15. Brown socks are tartan. 16. The trousers are black. 17. Panties are blue, warm.
Sheet 239
All of the above things Radostev recognized firmly. The record is correct, the signatures: 1, Blinov, 2. Khamov, 3. Yudin, Prosecutor criminologist Ivanov. Receipt by me, Radosteva GG, items listed in this protocol are listed from No. 1 to No. 17 and in the report of inspection of things No. 6 (from No. 1 to No. 4). Signed: Радостева-6 апр. 1959
Sheet 240
Protocol of identification of things № 5, Sverdlovsk, March 30. Prosecutor-criminalist of the Prosecutor's Office of the Sverdlovsk Region, ml. counselor of justice Ivanov, this day in the presence of witnesses: Yudin Yuri Efimovich, student of UPT, gr. I-480 and Hamova Galina Nikolaevna, UPI, gr. C-344, showed Kostrulin Viktor Nikolaevich, Student UPI, gr. R-463 personal equipment Doroshenko Yu.N., which is supposed to belong Doroshenko. Kostrulin VN, after examining the equipment, announced that his friend Doroshenko Yu.N. belong the following things: 1. The trolley is blue. 2. Shaped lamb, which was taken from Kostrulina. 3. Fur sleeveless, which was taken from Gainutdinov Farid, gr. P-463. 4. Fusions blue satin. 5.Noski simple brown. 6. The tank top is green. 7. Cowboy in a large cage "Bulgaria ..." (illegible). 8. Wool knitted socks. 9. Scarf is brown. 10. Blanket woolen, brown, which was taken from 10 stud. Shells. 11. Panties satin blue. 12.Sharovary blue, knitted. 13. Socks. All of the above items Kostrulin VN. identified firmly. Signatures: Kostrulina, Hamova, Yudin and Ivanov.
Sheet 241
The protocol is recorded correctly. Signatures of the Receipt: By me, Kostrulin V.N. received items listed in this protocol, No. 2 and 3. Signature Kostrulina. Receipt Me Shulyatevym Vasiliem Andrianovichem obtained listed in this protocol things under № 1, №№ 4, 5, 6, 7,8, 9, 11, 13, 12 and referred to in the protocol № 2 blue sweater to send their enclosure in Aktyubinsk, in the name of Doroshenko Volodya, brother of Yura Doroshenko. Signature: Шуляев. April 9, 1959
Sheet 242
Protocol of identification of things No. 6, Sverdlovsk, March 31, 1959 Prosecutor-criminalist of the Prosecutor's Office of the Sverdlovsk Region, counselor of justice Ivanov, this day in the presence of witnesses: Yudin Yuri Efimovich, student of UPT, gr. I-480 and Hamova Galina Nikolaevna, UPI, gr. C-344, presented Margarita Alexandrovna Mitrofanova - a friend of Kolmogorova's personal equipment for the trek of Z. Kolmogorova who died. Mitrofanova MA, having examined the equipment, firmly stated that Z. Kolmogorova belonged to: 1. Black trousers-tights black 2. Bathing suit black. 3. Cases for mittens blue with an elastic band in the number of 2 pcs. (crossed out word "mittens" is omitted) 4. T-shirt blue knitted.
Sheet 243
Prosecutor-criminalist of the Prosecutor's Office of the Sverdlovsk Region, ml. counselor of justice Ivanov, this day in the presence of witnesses: Yudin Yuri Efimovich, student of UPT, gr. I-480 and Hamova Galina Nikolaevna, UPI, gr. C-344, presented the parents of Slobodin Rustik with personal equipment, which is supposed to belong to Slobodin's bastard R. Samsnova Nadezhda Feodorovna, having examined the equipment presented, she stated that her son owned the following things: 1. Binoculars. 2. The ax. 3. Satin wide trousers. 4 pairs of sock, gray and brown. 5. 2 balaclavors. 6. Towel. 7. Phonemic. 8. One felt boots. 9. The telogram. 10. The blanket is brown, cloth. All of the above things are Samsonov NF. identified firmly. The protocol is recorded correctly. Signatures: 1. Yudin, 2. Khamov, 3. Slobodin-Samsonov. The things listed in this protocol from №1 to №10 have received: N.Samsonova (signature). 7.04.59. Ivanov (signature)
Sheet 244
Prosecutor-criminalist of the Prosecutor's Office of the Sverdlovsk Region, ml. counselor of justice Ivanov, this day in the presence of witnesses: Yudin Yuri Efimovich, student of UPT, gr. I-480 and Hamova Galina Nikolaevna, UPI, gr. C-344, presented to Khalizov Vyacheslav Ivanovich, a student of the city. P-559 personal equipment, which is supposed to belong to the dead Thibaut Nicholas. Khalizov, having examined the equipment presented, stated that Thibaut belong to the following things: 1. A two-handed saw, Tybo was taken from someone. Khalizov also said that Doroshenko owns the mitten-fur coat, which Doroshenko took before leaving Khalizov. All of the above items Khalizov VI. identified firmly. The protocol is recorded correctly. Signatures: 1. Khalizov, 2. Khamov, 3. Yudin Receipt By me, VI Khalizov. got mittens, which I gave Doroshenko Yu. Signature: Khalizov.
Sheet 245
Protocol of identification of things No. 8, Sverdlovsk, April 1, 1959 Prosecutor-criminalist of the Prosecutor's Office of the Sverdlovsk Region, ml. counselor of justice Ivanov, this day in the presence of witnesses: Yudin Yuri Efimovich, student of UPT, gr. I-480 and Hamova Galina Nikolaevna, UPI, gr. C-344, showed Kortev, NV, UPI, gr ... personal equipment of the dead hikers. Kortev NV, having examined the equipment, stated that Dyatlov belonged to: 1. A blanket of red cloth from 10 studios of the UPI building. 2. Mug of green enamel. The protocol is recorded correctly. Signatures: 1. Kortev, 2. Khamov, 3. Yudin. Protocol-criminalist Ivanov (signature).
Sheet 246
Protocol of identification of things No. 9, Sverdlovsk, April 1, 1959 Prosecutor-criminalist of the Prosecutor's Office of the Sverdlovsk Region, ml. counselor of justice Ivanov, this day in the presence of witnesses: Yudin Yuri Efimovich, student of UPT, gr. I-480 and Hamova Galina Nikolaevna, UPI, gr. C-344, showed Dubinina Ie Vladimirovna - the mother of the deceased Luda Dubinina personal equipment, which is supposed to belong to L. Dubinina. Dubinin, having examined the equipment presented, stated that her daughter owned the following things: 1. Blanket blue woolen 2. Handkerchief 3. Socks 2 pairs of brown, woolen. 4. Trunks knitted. 5. The helmet is white woolen. 6. The mug is green. 7. Hedgehog and rubber bear, which Luda bought before the departure as a birthday gift to someone. 8. Boots black new. 9. Tooth. Brush, soap dish. 10. Bear in the evil. Pants and brown shirt personally Ludin. 11. Thirteen sacks of food that Luda was preparing before leaving. 12. Sports cap, white. 13. Woolen white scarf, narrow. All of the above items Dubinin I.V. identified firmly. Signatures: 1. Dubinina, 2. Yudin, 3. Khamov, pr-r cr-t Ivanov.
Sheet 247 Receipt by Me, Dubinoy I.V. received the things listed in this protocol from No. 1 to 13. Signature In addition (these are listed 13 things), Iya Vladimirovna Dubinina identified a green backpack, which is also handed along with these things. Signature: Dubinina., 6.04.59.
Sheet 248
Protocol of identification of things No. 9, Sverdlovsk, April 3, 1959. Prosecutor-criminalist of the Prosecutor's Office of the Sverdlovsk Region, ml. counselor of justice Ivanov, this day in the presence of witnesses: Yudin Yuri Efimovich, student of UPT, gr. I-480 and Hamova Galina Nikolaevna, UPI, gr. C-344, presented Belyasov Alexander Danilovich, the mechanization management technique No. 1, who lived in the same room in the hostel with Thibault Brignol Coley, personal equipment, which is supposed to belong to N. Tibo. Belyasov said that Thibault N. owned the following things: 1. Svitre brown woolen, new. 2. Glasses in a green case. 3. Flashlight "Artel Saunobut Chernovitsy" (taken from Kruglyakov, a neighbor in the hostel). The inscription "round flask" is crossed out. 4. Mug is aluminum and a spoon. 5. Storm. 6. Cowboy in a large red cage. 7. Old felt hat, black. 8. The ax is large, with a tottering beak. 9. The soap dish is yellow. 10. Backpack green old Belyasov saw in Tibo house, but whose he does not know. 11. Thibaut departed in gray boots, which are not. - The inscription is crossed out. 12. The baby boogie is made of cotton. - The inscription is crossed out. 11. The saw, taken from the master in the instrumental
Sheet 249
Belyasov asserts that Thibaut N. took lychees with him, but here it is not. Among the presented things, one quilted jacket is like a quilted Teabo quilted jacket, but it is small and burnt. In addition, Thibaut took with him gray felt boots new, cotton trousers and a fur hare white color, which are also not here. Nothing can be said about the blanket (Aunt Thibaut N. knows about this). The protocol is recorded correctly. Signatures: 1. Khamova, 2, Yudin, 3. Belyasov. Prosecutor Ivanov (signature).
Sheet 250
Protocol of identification of things No. 11, Sverdovsk, April 4, 1959 Prosecutor-criminalist of the Prosecutor's Office of the Sverdlovsk Region, ml. counselor of justice Ivanov, this day in the presence of witnesses: Yudin Yuri Efimovich, student UPI, gr. I-480 and Hamova Galina Nikolaevna, UPI, gr. C-344, presented Kolevatova Rimma Sergeevna, the sister of the deceased Alexander Kolevatov, personal equipment, which is supposedly owned by Kolevatov. Колеватова, having examined the presented equipment has declared, that Колеватову belong the following things:
Sheet 251
1. Comb, screwdriver, pliers. 2. Storm suit: a jacket and pants of a dark green color. 3. Fur hat. 4. The flask is round. 5. Buckets 2 pieces. 6. Bar for the point of knives. 7. Mug is green, spoon. 8. Flashlight simple artel ud. (two words are crossed out) "MENAL (fuzzy) No. 3". Moscow. 9. Black teapot . 10. Boots , taken from Sasha Bagautdinov, Faculty 4, are sewn on the train. 11. Mittens are white, knitted. 12. Woolen socks, brown. 13. The balaclava is gray, woolen. The protocol is recorded correctly. Further crossed out text: Kolevatova RS having inspected the presented things, declared that her brother owned (the end of the crossed out text. All of the above items are Kolevatova RS identified firmly. Signatures: 1. Khamova, 2. Kolevatova, 3. Yudin. Dr. Ivanov (signature).
Sheet 252
The protocol of identification of things from April 6, 1959 No. 12 Prosecutor-criminalist of the Prosecutor's Office of the Sverdlovsk region, ml. counselor of justice Ivanov, this day in the presence of witnesses: Yudin Yuri Efimovich, student UPI, gr. I-480 and Hamova Galina Nikolaevna, UPI, gr. C-344, presented Muzafarova Elizaveta Iosifovna, the aunt of the deceased Nikolai Thibaut, personal equipment, which as assumed belongs to Thibaut. Muzafarova EI, after examining the equipment presented, stated that N. Thibault owned the following things:
Sheet 253
1. The hat is black, old. 2. The blanket is black with a patch. 3. Svitre is brown. 4. Glasses in a green case. 5. The backpack is green, old, personal. 6. The mug is green. 7. Storm. 8. Cowboy in a large red cage. 9. The ax is large with a loose beard. 10. Socks red woolen and brown, nasal scarves with a green edge, 3 pieces. 11. Mittens are brown woolen and leather black. 12. A box of tea with a compass, etc. 13. Penknife's knife is broken. 14. Box of candy with a shaving device. 15. Two-handed saw. 16. Socks simple 10 pairs. All listed things are identified firmly.
Sheet 254
Receipt. By me, Yudin Yu.E. obtained belongings to me things: 1. Blanched green from the 8 th student's class. 2. Gauntlets-fur coats sheathed in black. 3. A sportive blue cap. 4. First-aid kit, bowler, mask. 5. Fur sleeveless jacket trimmed in blue. Signature Yudin, April 7, 1959.
Sheet 255
My receipt, Kuznetsov Nikolai Filippovich, the head of the warehouse of the sports base received the equipment of the dead hikers, belonging to the sports club of the UPI. 1. Backpacks: Dyatlov, Tibo (crossed out), Doroshenko, Slobodin, Kolmogorova, Zolotarev, Kolevatov - 7 pieces (crossed out, all surnames are recorded "in column" 2. Ski boots Dyatlov, Tibo, Doroshenko, Slobodin, Dubinina, Kolmogorova, Zolotarev, Kolevatov 8 pairs. (surname - in the "column" 3 Ice ax one. 4 gaiters 15 pieces 5. Storm suits 6. Storm jackets 7. cookware one 8. Ski trousers one black 9.Switter half woolen, black 10. Painting (fuzzy)
Sheet 256
G. Sverdlovsk, April 8, 1959 I received a receipt, Bagautdinov AI, student of UPI, gr. F-453, boots were received, which I gave Kolevatov in the trek. Signed: Bagautdinov (signature) 8.04.-59.
Sheet 257
G. Sverdlovsk (March 31, 7 - crossed out) Prosecutor criminalist of the Prosecutor's Office of Sverdlovsk region, Junior Counselor of Justice Ivanov this day in the presence of witnesses Yudin Yuri Efimovich, student UPI gr. I-480 and Hamova Galina Nikolaevna, gr. C-344 completed the identification of things and found that they remained unidentified: 1. Masks from the wind 7 pieces. 2. Cowboy in a small cage is red with blue. 3. A case with glasses, with a cracked right glass. 4. T-shirt pink knitted with lengths. Sleeves. 5. Headbands gray 2 pieces. 6. A small iron top in a leather case. 7. Sneakers homemade in a green cage. 8. 2 toothbrushes: simple and in a case. 9. Scissors are small. 10. Woolen socks old 9 pieces. 11. Wax socks 6 pieces. 12. Simple socks 7 pieces. 13. Gray cloth woolcloths 2 pcs. and brown flannel 1 pc. 14. Gauntlets of 12 pieces. 15. Bags of food for 4 pieces. Signatures: 1 Khamova (signature) 2 3 Yudin (signature) Prosecutor criminalist Ivanov (signature)
Nigel Evans
04-09-2017 15:14 (GMT)
Actually he is a she... How do you know yours is the better version?
Loose-Cannon
04-09-2017 15:06 (GMT)
Similar isn't the same. The author also added in his own BS to a freaking autopsy report!! Unbelievable
Nigel Evans
04-09-2017 15:02 (GMT)
Looks similar to me, they are two different translations, what's your point?
Loose-Cannon
04-09-2017 14:56 (GMT)
Wow... Incomplete and an utter omission of information, and altered!
Compare the last section of my post
Nigel Evans
04-09-2017 14:36 (GMT)
Doroshenko Yuri Alekseevich, 21 years old On the March 4, 1959 in accordance with March 4, 1959 in accordance with decree of the Prosecutor office of Sverdlovsk region of March 3, 1959 by forensic experts of the regional forensic investigation bureau Mr. V.A. VOZROZHDENNIY and Mr. Yu.I. LAPTEV in the presence of the prosecutor of Sverdlovsk region state Counselor in Justice of III class Mr. N.I. KLINOV, criminal prosecutor of regional prosecutor office junior Counselor in Justice Mr. L.N. IVANOV and witnesses S.D. GORDO and K.V. NASKICHEV in the morgue of the central department hospital, PO Box No.240 with daylight and sunny weather there was performed the autopsy of the corpse of Mr. Y.A. Doroshenko, 21 years old, in order to determine the cause of death and answers to the questions given in the declaration. Case circumstances On January 23, 1959 the independent group of hikers consisting of 10 persons went across the ski track Ivdel – Mount Otorten. From the 2nd Severny site the group consisted of 9 persons. On February 1, 1959 the group started the climb on the mount Otorten and in the evening they put up a tent at the height of 1 079 meters. In the night of February 2 at the unknown circumstances all 9 persons died. А) External examination The body under examination is a male corpse of regular build. The body position is as follows: the upper limbs are drawn up at the shoulder joints towards the head and are bent at the elbow joints. The finger joints are also bent. The lower limbs are stretched. The head is turned to the left. The body was found with the following clothes on it: a short-sleeved blue and red chequered cowboy shirt with two two-button patch pockets and with all six buttons buttoned up, a sleeveless light-green knitted vest, blue sateen pants and briefs, and blue knitted long underwear with two buttons buttoned up. In the middle third of the thigh, on the inner thigh to the left and on the front thigh to the right the long underwear is torn: there is a 22 x 23 cm fabric tear on the right and another 13 x 13 cm fabric tear on the left. On the left foot, there are two pairs of light-brown knitted socks torn in the back of the foot and in the ankle joint and a white woollen sock with a reinforced heel; on a white sock there is a 2 x 5 cm dark-brown burnt area in the forefoot around the toe. On the right foot, there are the remains of the cotton sock with an elastic band. This sock is the same colour as the one on the left foot. There is also a white woollen sock. On the inside of the pants, there is an identification tag reading 5П1513. The length of the body is 180 cm. The body has a good nutritional status and well-developed muscle groups. Crimson purple post-mortem stains are located on the back of the neck, torso and limbs. Rigor mortis has resolved in the muscle groups of the joints. There is dark 6-cm-long chestnut hair on the head, cut in a crew-cut style. In the temporoparietal and occipital zones, there is an area where the ends of the hair are burnt. The hair is dirty with moss remains and fir needles. The skin of the face is brown-purple. The contour of the face is smoothed. The eyebrows are dark chestnut and thick. The eyes are closed, the corneas are cloudy, the irises are brown, the pupils are enlarged, and the eyelid mucosa is pale pink. The nasal ridge is straight. Around the nasal ridge, the nasal tip and the upper lip, there are clotted blood traces. The upper lip is swollen. Around the vermilion border of the upper lip, there is a 1.5 x 2 cm dark red haemorrhage. The mouth is slightly opened. The teeth are white and even. The mucous membrane of the gums and the vestibule of the mouth is pale red. The tongue is in the oral cavity behind the teeth. Around the right cheek, the soft tissue is covered with a layer of foamy grey fluid. Grey fluid traces are also visible around the opening of the mouth. The auricles are oval in shape and bluish red in colour. Around the tragus and the lobule of the right auricle, there is a 6 x 1.5 cm thick brown red area. On the left auricle around the tragus, there is a similar 4 x 1 cm brown red parchment-like area. The auricles are bright red from the inside. ??? ??? without any distinctive features. On the inner arms and forearms of both upper limbs, the venous pattern is well-defined. Soft tissues of the upper limbs are bluish red. On the inner right arm, in the middle third, there are two 2 x 1.5 cm irregular-shaped brown red parchment-like abrasions without haemorrhages in the adjacent tissue. In the area of these abrasions, two linear incisions are made. By the anterior margin of the right axillary line, there is a 2 x 1.5 cm dark red skin abrasion area. On the front of the right arm, there are small brown red scab-like abrasions without haemorrhages in the adjacent tissues. In the upper third of the right forearm, there are 4 (?) x 1-, 2.5 x 1.5 and 5 x 0.5 cm stripe-shaped brown red abrasions. There are also small abrasions in the lower third of the right forearm. On the back (?) of the right hand, there is swelling of the soft tissue and small abrasions. On the back of the hand, specifically on the second metacarpal bone, there is a 2 x 1.5 cm brown-red abrasion with haemorrhaging into the adjacent tissue. The soft tissue of the hand and fingers, especially the distal phalanges, are dark purple. On the inner left arm, in the lower third, there are 3 x 0.5 , 1.5 x 0.7 and 1 x 1.5 cm brown red abrasions. On the sides of the left elbow joint, there are small brown-red grazes as well as 2 x 3 cm abrasions of the same colour with the parallel stripe-shaped sliding traces. On the inner left forearm, between the middle third and the lower third, there is a 0.6 x 0.5 cm irregular-shaped oval skin wound. The edges of the wound are slightly pressed down and covered with clotted blood. An incision was made around this wound, and haemorrhaging in the adjacent soft tissues was found. The soft tissue in the back of the left hand is slightly swollen and brown-red in colour. The distal phalanges of the fingers are dark purple. The thoracic cage is cylindrical in shape. The abdomen is located slightly lower than the thoracic cage. In the iliac area, there is an 8 cm linear whitish scar. The external genital organs are properly formed. In the area of the glans penis and foreskin, the soft tissue is bright red. The openings of the anus and urethra are clean. The muscle groups of the lower limbs are well-developed. On the back and inner thighs and shins, the venous pattern is well-defined. On the front shins, in the middle third, there are pale red parchment-like abrasions – 8 x 4 cm on the left shin and 5 x 1.5 cm on the right shin. The soft tissue in the distal phalanges of the toes is dark purple. Examination by touch shows that the skeleton bones and cartilages are intact. B) Internal Organs Examination The skin flaps of the scalp are moist, rich, glossy, and pale red from the inside. The skullcap and skull base bones are intact. The dura mater is bluish and hyperaemic. The pia mater is opaque and swollen. Convolutions and fissures of the brain are smoothed out and flattened. The brain matter is a greenish red jelly-like substance. The grey matter can hardly be distinguished from the white matter. Brain ventricle contours are indistinguishable. The cerebellum matter pattern is poorly distinguished. The base of the brain vessels is regular. The subcutaneous fat of the body is well-developed. The position of the internal organs is normal. The pleural cavities are empty. The pericardium contained about 40 cm3 of amber fluid. The size of the heart is 13 x10 x 6 cm. The cardiac muscle is dark red when sectioned. The left ventricle muscle is 2 cm thick, while the right ventricle muscle is 0.7 cm thick... The lungs are bluish red on the outside and dough-like to the touch. The lung tissue when sectioned is dark red... The liver is smooth and glossy on the outside. The size of the liver is 27 x 17 x 12 x 10 cm. The liver tissue when sectioned is cherry brown and hyperaemic. The liver tissue pattern is poorly distinguished... The bladder contained about 150 cm3 of cloudy light yellow fluid. Some organs from the body under examination have been taken for chemical and histological testing to the Regional Laboratory... Conclusion According to the examination results of the body belonging to D-ko Yuri Nikolayevich, aged 21, and considering the circumstances of the case, we believe that the death occurred as the result of low temperature exposure (freezing), which can be proved by the following evidence: meninges oedema, strong hyperaemia in the internal organs, cardiac cavities full of liquid dark blood, petechiae in the gastric mucosa (known as Wischnewsky spots), an excessively full bladder, along with the third and fourth degree frostbite of fingers and toes. External examination showed damage, such as multiple abrasions and skin wounds caused by a blunt object that could occur as the result of falling or bruising against stones, ice, and other objects. The injuries mentioned above occurred while alive, during the agonal state, and after death. The injuries mentioned above can be described as slight injuries without damage to health. This examination of the body gives reasons to state that the last meal was consumed 6 to 8 hours before death. Alcohol was not found during the tests. The death is violent and accidental. Signed: Forensic Medical Examiner, Regional Forensic Medical Examination Office
Oss, Svetlana. Don't Go There: Post Mortem (p. 215). LiberWriter.com. Kindle Edition.
Loose-Cannon
04-09-2017 14:26 (GMT)
Ok.... Autopsy reports. Do they look like this?
Sheet 104 ACT # 2 FORENSIC-MEDICAL RESEARCH OF THE BODY OF DOROSHENKO Yury Nikolaevich, 21 years old
March 4, 1959 according to the decision of the Prosecutor's Office of the Sverdlovsk region of March 3, 1959 Forensic experts of the Regional Bureau of Forensic Medical Examination of the Sverdlovsk Region VOZROZHDENNIY B.A. and Laptev II. in the presence of the state counselor of justice of the third class Klinov NI, the criminal prosecutor Ivan IVANOV LI, and understandable com. GORDO S.D. and NASKICHEV K.V. in the morgue room of the central hospital of the office Box No. H-240 under daylight and sunny weather, a corpse of citizen DOROSHENKO Yury Nikolaevich was examined on the 21st year, to determine the cause of death and answer the questions indicated in the resolution.
The circumstances of the case
January 23, 1959 an amateur group of hikers consisting of 10 people went on a ski trip on the route Ivdel - Mount Otorten. From the site of the 2 nd North in the ski trip went 9 people. On February 1, 1959 the group began the ascent to Mount Oorten and in the evening broke the tent near the height of 1079. On the night of February 2, under unclear circumstances, all 9 people died.
Sheet 105 - 2 - a / external inspection :
The corpse of a man, the right body; posture of the corpse: upper limbs are withdrawn in the shoulder joints upwards towards the head, in a bent position in the elbow joints, and also in the area of ??the finger joints. The lower extremities are elongated. The head is turned to the left. Clothes on the corpse: a spatula with a short sleeve blue in a red cage, with two patch pockets for 2 buttons, a cowboy buttoned to all six buttons. T-shirt sleeveless - knitted, salad color, panties and melting satin blue, knitted blue pants buttoned on two buttons. In the middle third of the thigh on the inner surface on the left, and on the right on the front surface there are rips of pants, measuring 22 x 33 cm on the right and 13 x 13 cm on the left. On the left leg are two pairs of knitted light brown socks, with rips in the area of ??the rear of the foot and ankle joint; woolen socks are white, with a heel trimmed, in the area of ??the forefoot on the toe, there is a burnt patch measuring 2 x 5 cm in dark brown color. On the right leg, the remnants of a cotton sock with an elastic band are the same color as the one on the left. Wool white socks. On the inner surface of the panties there is a marking label with the inscription STS1313. The length of the corpse is 180 cm., Good nutrition, with well developed muscular groups; cadaveric spots of purple-colored color are located on the posterior surface of the neck of the trunk and extremities. Burial stiffness spread in the muscle groups of the joints; on the head dark-haired hair up to 6 cm long is trimmed under the "half-box". In the right temporo-parietal and occipital region there is a section of burning ends of hair, the hair is stained with remains of moss and needles of coniferous trees, the skin of the face is brownish-colored, the contours of the face are smoothed. Eyebrows dense dark-haired, eyes closed, cornea cloudy, irises
Sheet 106
- 3 -
brown, pupils dilated, mucous eyelid pale pink. The back of the nose is straight. In the region of the back of the nose, the tip of the nose and the upper lip, there are traces of discharge of gore. Upper lip swelling, in the red portion of the upper lip hemorrhage dark red measuring 1.5 x 2 cm. Lips parted s, the teeth are even white, the mucous gums and the vestibule of the mouth are pale red, the tongue in the mouth is behind the teeth. In the area of ??the right cheek soft tissues are covered with a layer of frothy gray liquid, from the mouth of the mouth there are traces of discharge of liquid of gray color. Ear shells of oval form of bluish-red color, in the area of ??tragus and lobes of right shell, dense sections of brownish color 6 x 1.6 cm in size, on the left auricle in the tragus area a section of the same color measuring 4 x 1 cm in parchment density, ears with inner surface of bright red color. Neck xxxx without features. In the area of ??the inner surface of the shoulders and forearms of both extremities, the venous pattern is well pronounced. Soft tissues of the upper extremities are cyanotic-reddish, on the inner surface of the right shoulder in the middle third are two abrasions measuring 2 x 1.5 cm. brown color of parchment density of irregular shape, without hemorrhages in the underlying tissues. In the area of ??these abrasions two cuts of linear are made. At the anterior margin of the right axillary line, the site of dark red coloration is 2 x 1.5 cm in size. On the front surface of the right shoulder, small bruise-colored abrasions in the form of strips measuring 4 x 1 cm, 2.5 x 1.5 cm and 5 x 0.5 cm and minor abrasions in the lower third of the right forearm. In the area of ??the rear of the right hand, soft tissue swelling and small abrasions. At the rear of the hand, respectively, the second metacarpal bone is an abrasion 2 x 1.5 cm in size, brownish-colored with hemorrhages in the underlying soft tissues. Soft brush fabrics At the anterior margin of the right axillary line, the site of dark red coloration is 2 x 1.5 cm in size. On the front surface of the right shoulder, small bruise-colored abrasions in the form of strips measuring 4 x 1 cm, 2.5 x 1.5 cm and 5 x 0.5 cm and minor abrasions in the lower third of the right forearm. In the area of ??the rear of the right hand, soft tissue swelling and small abrasions. At the rear of the hand, respectively, the second metacarpal bone is an abrasion 2 x 1.5 cm in size, brownish-colored with hemorrhages in the underlying soft tissues. Soft brush fabrics At the anterior margin of the right axillary line, the site of dark red coloration is 2 x 1.5 cm in size. On the front surface of the right shoulder, small bruise-colored abrasions in the form of strips measuring 4 x 1 cm, 2.5 x 1.5 cm and 5 x 0.5 cm and minor abrasions in the lower third of the right forearm. In the area of ??the rear of the right hand, soft tissue swelling and small abrasions. At the rear of the hand, respectively, the second metacarpal bone is an abrasion 2 x 1.5 cm in size, brownish-colored with hemorrhages in the underlying soft tissues. Soft brush fabrics In the area of ??the rear of the right hand, soft tissue swelling and small abrasions. At the rear of the hand, respectively, the second metacarpal bone is an abrasion 2 x 1.5 cm in size, brownish-colored with hemorrhages in the underlying soft tissues. Soft brush fabrics In the area of ??the rear of the right hand, soft tissue swelling and small abrasions. At the rear of the hand, respectively, the second metacarpal bone is an abrasion 2 x 1.5 cm in size, brownish-colored with hemorrhages in the underlying soft tissues. Soft brush fabrics
Sheet 107 - 4 - and the fingers of the hands are especially terminal phalanges of dark-colored color. On the inner surface of the left shoulder in the lower third of the bruise-colored grazes are 3 x 0.5, 1.5 x 0.7 and 1 x 1.5. On the lateral surfaces of the left elbow joint, small abrasions of brown color of parchment density and abrasions of the same color 2 x 3 cm in size with traces of slipping in the form of bands parallel to each other. On the inner surface of the left forearm, at the border of the middle third and lower third, the skin wound is of an irregular oval shape measuring 0.6 x 0.5 cm, its edges are slightly bent and covered with gore, under the wound, traces of gore. A cut was made in the area of ??this wound, where a hemorrhage in the underlying soft tissues was detected. Soft tissues in the area of ??the rear of the left hand are slightly swollen reddish-colored. End phalanx of fingers of hands of dark-colored color. The thorax is cylindrical, the abdomen is located somewhat below the level of the thorax. In the right iliac region, the dermal color of the whitish color of the linear shape is 8 cm in size. The external genital organs are developed correctly, in the region of the foreskin and glans penis of bright red color. The aperture of the anus and the urethra are clean. Muscular groups of the lower extremities are well developed. The posterior-internal surface of the hips and shins is well defined venous pattern. On the anterior surface of both shins in the middle third, the skin of the pale red color is of parchment density of 8 x 4 cm on the left, and 5 x 1.5 cm on the right shin. Soft tissues in the area of ??the end phalanx of the toes of the foot are dark-colored. The bones and cartilage of the skeleton are intact when tested. The stomach is located somewhat below the level of the chest. In the right iliac region, the dermal color of the whitish color of the linear shape is 8 cm in size. The external genital organs are developed correctly, in the region of the foreskin and glans penis of bright red color. The aperture of the anus and the urethra are clean. Muscular groups of the lower extremities are well developed. The posterior-internal surface of the hips and shins is well defined venous pattern. On the anterior surface of both shins in the middle third, the skin of the pale red color is of parchment density of 8 x 4 cm on the left, and 5 x 1.5 cm on the right shin. Soft tissues in the area of ??the end phalanx of the toes of the foot are dark-colored. The bones and cartilage of the skeleton are intact when tested. The stomach is located somewhat below the level of the chest. In the right iliac region, the dermal color of the whitish color of the linear shape is 8 cm in size. The external genital organs are developed correctly, in the region of the foreskin and glans penis of bright red color. The aperture of the anus and the urethra are clean. Muscular groups of the lower extremities are well developed. The posterior-internal surface of the hips and shins is well defined venous pattern. On the anterior surface of both shins in the middle third, the skin of the pale red color is of parchment density of 8 x 4 cm on the left and 5 x 1.5 cm on the right shin. Soft tissues in the area of ??the end phalanx of the toes of the foot are dark-colored. The bones and cartilage of the skeleton are intact when tested. The external genitalia are developed correctly, in the area of ??the foreskin and glans penis of bright red color. The aperture of the anus and the urethra are clean. Muscular groups of the lower extremities are well developed. The posterior-internal surface of the hips and shins is well defined venous pattern. On the anterior surface of both shins in the middle third, the skin of the pale red color is of parchment density of 8 x 4 cm on the left and 5 x 1.5 cm on the right shin. Soft tissues in the area of ??the end phalanx of the toes of the foot are dark-colored. The bones and cartilage of the skeleton are intact when tested. The external genitalia are developed correctly, in the area of ??the foreskin and glans penis of bright red color. The aperture of the anus and the urethra are clean. Muscular groups of the lower extremities are well developed. The posterior-internal surface of the hips and shins is well expressed venous pattern. On the anterior surface of both shins in the middle third, the skin of the pale red color is of parchment density of 8 x 4 cm on the left, and 5 x 1.5 cm on the right shin. Soft tissues in the area of ??the end phalanx of the toes of the foot are dark-colored. The bones and cartilage of the skeleton are intact when tested. The posterior-internal surface of the hips and shins is well expressed venous pattern. On the anterior surface of both shins in the middle third, the skin of the pale red color is of parchment density of 8 x 4 cm on the left and 5 x 1.5 cm on the right shin. Soft tissues in the area of ??the end phalanx of the toes of the foot are dark-colored. The bones and cartilage of the skeleton are intact when tested. The posterior-internal surface of the hips and shins is well expressed venous pattern. On the anterior surface of both shins in the middle third, the skin of the pale red color is of parchment density of 8 x 4 cm on the left and 5 x 1.5 cm on the right shin. Soft tissues in the area of ??the end phalanx of the toes of the foot are dark-colored. The bones and cartilage of the skeleton are intact when tested.
Sheet 108
- 5 -
B / Internal Research
Skin flaps of the scalp with internal dampness wet, juicy, shiny, pale red. The bones of the arch and the base of the skull are intact, the dura mater is cyanotic, full-blooded, the soft dura mater is turbid, swollen. The gyrus and fissures of the brain are smoothed, flattened, the substance of the brain is a jelly-like mass of a greenish-red color. Gray matter of the brain is not clearly distinguishable from white, the contours of the ventricles of the brain are indistinguishable, the pattern of the cerebellum substance is discernible poorly. the bases of the brain without features. Subcutaneous fat tissue of the trunk and extremities ("limbs" is clogged or corrected - approx.) Is well developed. The position of the internal organs is correct, the pleural cavities are free. The pericardial bag contained up to 40 cm 3 of an amber liquid. Hearts in the size of 13 x 10 x 6 cm., heart muscle on a section of dark red color, the thickness of the left ventricle muscle 2 cm, right 0.7 cm, in the right and left half of the heart was kept up to 270 cm 3. liquid dark blood, aortic and pulmonary artery smooth , thin, shiny, pale red; the coronary arteries are free, the arteries are enlarged, we pass well; inside the aortic surface smooth, clean, the width of the aortic arch ?? valves 8.5 cm. The lungs from the surface bluish red ??? colors, test doughs to the touch, on the cuts the tissue of the lungs is dark red, when pressed from the surface of the cut st. in a large quantity of liquid dark blood and foamy ??? yanistaya liquid; the larynx and bronchus lumen is free; mucous esophagus, trachea, bronchus bluish-red color. ???? the sub-lingual bone is intact. Thyroid gland on the incision of a flock of reddish color.
Sheet 109 - 6-
? 50 cm 3. liquid mucous mass of reddish-colored, mucous stomach of lilac-red color, swollen, with well expressed folding; On the upper surface of the folds of the stomach there is a large number of small hemorrhages - spots of Wischnewsky. A sour smell is felt by the sense of smell from the contents of the stomach. The pancreas is fine-lobed, lilac-colored in the section. In the lumen of the small intestine contained a mucus mass of reddish color, the mucosa of the intestine is bluish-red. In the large intestine, half-formed feces are light-brown in color, the mucosa of the intestine is pale-gray. The spleen is flabby to the touch, the capsule is wrinkled, the size of the spleen is 1 x 7 x 3 cm, the tissue of its dark-cherry color on slices, the pulp gives a slight scraping from the surface of the incision. The liver from the surface is smooth, shiny, the size of the liver is 9 x 12 x 10 cm, on a cut liver tissue of a bilberry-colored color, full-blooded, the figure of the hepatic tissue is poorly discernible, the gall bladder contains up to 30 cm 3. liquids of olific color, the mucous membrane of the gall bladder is velvety brownish. The kidneys from the surface are smooth, shiny, the capsule is easily removed from them, the size of the right kidney is 11 x 6 x 4 cm, the left kidney is 11 x 5 x 3.5 cm, the tissue of the buds is dark-cherry on the cut, the layers of the kidneys are poorly discernible. The layers of the adrenal glands are clearly distinguishable. The bladder contained about 150 cm 3 of a cloudy, light yellow liquid; the bladder mucosa is pale. In the study of internal organs, the presence of alcohol was not detected. the mucous membrane of the gall bladder is velvety brownish. The kidneys from the surface are smooth, shiny, the capsule is easily removed from them, the size of the right kidney is 11 x 6 x 4 cm, the left kidney is 11 x 5 x 3.5 cm, the tissue of the kidney is dark-cherry on the cut, the layers of the kidneys are poorly discernible. The layers of the adrenal glands are clearly distinguishable. The bladder contained about 150 cm 3 of a cloudy, light yellow liquid; the bladder mucosa is pale. In the study of internal organs, the presence of alcohol was not detected. the mucous membrane of the gall bladder is velvety brownish. The kidneys from the surface are smooth, shiny, the capsule is easily removed from them, the size of the right kidney is 11 x 6 x 4 cm, the left kidney is 11 x 5 x 3.5 cm, the tissue of the buds is dark-cherry on the cut, the layers of the kidneys are poorly discernible. The layers of the adrenal glands are clearly distinguishable. The bladder contained about 150 cm 3 of a cloudy, light yellow liquid; the bladder mucosa is pale. In the study of internal organs, the presence of alcohol was not detected. the bladder mucosa is pale. In the study of internal organs, the presence of alcohol was not detected. the bladder mucosa is pale. In the study of internal organs, the presence of alcohol was not detected. For chemical research and histological examination, a part of internal organs from the examined corpse was taken, which were sent to the laboratory of the Oblast
Sheet 110
- 7 -
Bureau of Forensic Science for Research.
COURT.MED. EXPERT OF THE REGIONAL BUREAU OF SUDMEDEKSPERTIZY - signature / REVIVAL /
COURT.MED. EXPERT OF THE CITY NORTH-URALSK - signature / LAPTEV /
PROSECUTOR OF THE SVERDLOVSK REGION STATE COUNCIL OF JUSTICE III CLASS - signature / KLINOV /
PROSECUTOR OF THE REGIONAL CRIMINALIST PROSECUTORS ML.SOVETNIK JUSTICE - signature / IVANOV /
Based on the data of the investigation of the corpse of citizen DOROSHENKO Yuri Nikolayevich, 21 years old and considering the circumstances of the case, we believe that DOROSHENKO's death came from the effect of a low temperature / freezing / as evidenced by? edema of the meninges, sharp fullness of the internal organs, overflow with liquid dark blood of the heart cavities, presence of Wischnewsky spots on the gastric mucosa, bladder overflow, and frostbite of the limbs 3rd and 4th degree. In case of an external examination, the damage in the form of precipitations, abrasions and cutaneous wounds is caused by a blunt instrument that could have occurred as a result of a fall or injury? stones, ice and so on. The above damage was caused as during life, as well as in the agonal state and posthumously. By the nature of the damage, the above injuries are classified as lungs without a health disorder. The data of the investigation of the corpse DOROSHENKO give grounds to believe that he had a meal 6-8 hours before his death. The presence of alcohol during the study was not detected. Death is forcible, accident.
COURT.MED. EXPERT OF THE REGIONAL
BUREAU OF SUDMEDEKSPERTIZY - signature / REVIVAL /
COURT.MED. EXPERT OF THE CITY NORTH-URALSK - signature / LAPTEV /
Nigel Evans
04-09-2017 13:56 (GMT)
@LC - Two books Don't Go There Post Mortem - Svetlana Oss and Dyatlov Pass Keeps It's Secrets. The first book has a translation of the post mortem reports. What have you read?
Loose-Cannon
04-09-2017 13:52 (GMT)
Then why ignore the only known facts of the case. All else is speculation. Where did you review the material?
Nigel Evans
04-09-2017 13:46 (GMT)
@LC - yes
Loose-Cannon
04-09-2017 13:40 (GMT)
Nigel.
Have you read the actual case files and autopsy reports?
So what if the atmosphere has sufficient mechanical energy (wind/graupnel) to separate free electrons (electron stream) from their atoms (ion stream) and then these two streams cross paths. Then you would get an attraction = acceleration creating a further electron avalanche creating a glow discharge.... Depending on the wind driving all of this it could then be sustained.
Just to argue the point further wrt SZ's photos. Others will argue that most of the images are magnifications of flaws/water damage and are not of real objects. The case against that view is that if true then the frame is of nothing at all other than the night sky. My problem with that theory is that if SZ was a KGB field operative with a camera setup for night photography then he wouldn't be taking pointless pictures... That fact that the frame has been exposed makes it axiomatic that there was something he wanted to record. Also apparently across all the cameras there something like 30 frames that are similar to the SZ's.
Loose-Cannon
04-09-2017 10:54 (GMT)
Good luck in me not posting, and we all know full well the context of what the author is stating regardless of the translation... Nice try.
To overlook all these injuries as just small bumps etc is absolutely insane.
"If you look at the two pictures of melted and then hardened snow -- which extend for ten or more meters,"
You haven't proven said ice sheet exist, nor that a fireball produced it... This is your problem, not mine. Ever seen snow turn crunchy? Ever think conditions have changed since the fatal night? Of course not, everything was exactly as the fireball left it weeks before in some of the most extreme conditions on tje planet... Sure!
Nigel Evans
04-09-2017 09:19 (GMT)
@KMM/John - re wind speed, Svetlana Oss discusses this anomaly, the weather stations (all many miles away) report mild conditions but the locals say very high winds.
Nigel Evans
04-09-2017 09:10 (GMT)
@John - yes that's the famous hot spot, a circular area of snow that has been warmed up sufficiently for the wind to corrugate the slush before it refroze. As you say radiant energy and to me looks like to be exactly in the spot given by the three heads photo. If so then i think you're talking about something as big as a barn (like at Hessdalen). There are a number of accounts that indicate the snow across the whole mountain was warmed up and refroze before the rescue team got there. Evidence for microwave warming imo.
I'm getting excited about the 2012 photos on the viafanzine page 4 :- http://www.viafanzine.jor.br/002imag/03_13/dyatlov4_objeto.jpg . http://www.viafanzine.jor.br/002imag/03_13/dyatlov4_objeto2.jpg . I think connected ion streams glowing at a node is a good explanation for the main object. SZ's plane photos plus the others now make sense. They're not erroneous from camera shake or water damage but of an object in the sky changing form over time. That's why he took each frame, the thing was morphing from one form to another. Could be applicable to the cloud like stuff as well.
@KMM/John - Wrt the den, if you sit down in the open in -20C you're not going to leave your gloves in your pocket or jacket unbuttoned. You're no longer keeping warm from activity so a closed shelter is axiomatic with the use of the seats imo. Svetlana Oss wonders if they had found a mansi hunter shelter as the floor seems to be very well constructed for a temporary hideout for a few hours. Apparently there was a "choom" 800m away. So they must have been within a compact cave any more open structure wouldn't fit the above. Point taken about getting damp but they didn't have the outer layers for anything else. The only way to argue against the cave imo is to argue it was a lot warmer than -20C.
@LC - combat injuries - the problem here is that there is a group of bruises, abrasions cuts etc that are ambiguous, could be combat could be more innocent causes. The case against combat injuries is that there aren't ANY injuries that are CLEARLY combat related - broken noses, black eyes, gouged eyes, torn ears etc etc. The omission of clear combat injuries favours innocent causes for the others imo. I know you're not going to like that answer but it would be nice if you try and reply in fewer posts rather than as many as possible... Maybe just one post, i can dream...
John Wolfe
04-09-2017 08:58 (GMT)
note to KMM : I agree - that wind statement seems way off -- might be the google and etc. translations .
photos that night show a raging storm with high winds -- I go with about 30 to 50 km / hr -- The Ural range is relatively smooth and worn-down, so would be subject to the very high winds we see in not only the photos of that night but nearly every modern video I've seen (and posted) of the area in the winter.
John Wolfe
04-09-2017 08:50 (GMT)
note to LC: I think you're making too much of the individual words in these google and etc. translations of translations (in this case original Russian to Portuguese to English) Think of that game ("telephone" or "telegraph" - I forget which) where you write a message or something and the first person reads it and then tells into the ear of the next - who then from memory has to retell it into the ear of the next and so on ....... after a few iterations it get pretty mixed up and usually funny. Like automatic translations (or even human based translations) If you look at the two pictures of melted and then hardened snow -- which extend for ten or more meters, the report says that as they approached the tent, for the last 20 meters or more they could not use their skis because the snow had melted and hardened into ice -- you tell me -- how was it made -- and -- if there were attackers (as you say) .......... WHY ?
KMM
04-09-2017 08:04 (GMT)
"Under natural conditions, a layer of snow four feet thick could never cover them: there was not enough time, nor snowfall so strong to produce so much snow."
The REAL mystery of the DPI. The author says "where did the snow come from ?" its like it fell from the sky or something.
KMM
04-09-2017 07:37 (GMT)
"The huge layer of frozen snow beneath which the last four hikers were buried at the bottom of the ravine was so strong that it had to be stung with picks and shovels of sapper. Under natural conditions, a layer of snow four feet thick could never cover them: there was not enough time, nor snowfall so strong to produce so much snow" More BS, the guy never heard of drifting ??? Where does he think it came from ? Does BL now cover its dead with snow ? Another property of BL discovered ?
KMM
04-09-2017 07:17 (GMT)
Wind north-northwest 1 m / sec , that's 2.2mph. that is a calm day. Not very believable at all. Everything else I've read says very windy. I would go with very windy.
KMM
04-09-2017 07:07 (GMT)
Death on the TRAIL gave a much different weather report and timeline
Loose-Cannon
04-09-2017 03:34 (GMT)
Yes, yes.... If anyone deeds a schmuck to do their thinking for them. Please do as John says and refer to page 4 as it were written in stone. Johns Law.. 2+2=5
Loose-Cannon
04-09-2017 03:23 (GMT)
Ok... page four is the MOTHER of all BULLPUD. I could literally spend all night on this one, but I wont... this has got to make one at least 10 IQ points dumber.
"Traces at the scene of the incident
1) Presence of a heat source.
Weather Report for Ivdel raion:
"On the night of 1st. February 1959, air temperature dropped almost twice as compared to morning, reaching -20, -21 ° C. In comparison with morning values, air humidity was low, 56%, visibility was of 8 points (on average). Precipitations fell less than 0.5 mm. Wind north-northwest 1 m / sec. Blizzards, hurricanes or storms were not observed . "
On the slopes of the Mountain of the Dead, the temperature, obviously, was much lower, due to height and wind. With a high degree of certainty we can add here from five to seven degrees, which means that the temperature in the dyatlovtsy tent was approaching minus 30 degrees. In the conditions of a strong cold, the humidity is low (the indicated value is 56 percent), and the snow, dry and powder. There should be no ice at all.
But what do we see?
- Near the entrance to the tent, there was an ice patch in the shape of sharp, parallel "ribs" (such icy formations are called internationally from Sastrugui , which is the term of Russian origin). First responders paid attention to this ice islet, with a diameter of about four meters. The ice was very strong, ribbed, as if it were freezing in the form of waves; so that on these sharp "ribs" the snow blocks launched by rescue workers were easily broken off when they were looking for bodies near the tent."
Huh.... Who woulda thunk it! The author just pulls this fricked up crazy ass story outta thin freaking air!! No evidence, no quotes.... nada, zip, NOTHING! Unbelievable
It happened.. I was there... Its all proof in black and white, why question it!?!
John Wolfe
04-09-2017 03:22 (GMT)
note to KMM:
to translate a page I had to first open the page (from the link I supplied) THEN hit translate -- the page always tells me that it isn't working -- THEN HIT REFRESH -- if that doesn't give you a page in English -- hit translate again -- once this is done you should still have to do this for the other three pages; once you've done this I think google sends you a cookie which when you click on the same page later you should get the page in English (if it comes up in a foreign language - just hit translate and it should work right away without any more fooling around)
Loose-Cannon
04-09-2017 03:14 (GMT)
"They walked barefoot and barely dressed, for about a mile and a half, searching for the forest, because it was possible to hide among the trees."
Laff.... its about 1 mile you dingbat, and.... they had a map.... they knew where the trees were, and what evidence is there it was to 'hide'.....with a freaking fire!
Loose-Cannon
04-09-2017 03:10 (GMT)
"Conclusion: "(...) Dubinina's death was caused by extensive congestion in the right ventricle of the heart, multiple bilateral fractures of the ribs, abundant internal congestion in the thoracic cavity.
The indicated lesions could have arisen as a result of the influence of a great force, which caused a severe closed, fatal trauma of Dubinina's rib cage. In addition, the injuries caused in life are precisely the result of the influence of a great force with the subsequent fall, pushing or bruising in the region of the rib cage of Dubinina. (...) Dubinina's death was violent . "
Meh.... cant possibly happen by falling...on a boulder... where she was found! The page author says the following..
"Simply put, the eyeballs were removed (even traces of the retina were not found by the expert, otherwise he would have indicated this), and the tongue, along with the diaphragm of the mouth, were simply pulled out. Such a conclusion is obtained if you pay attention to the "abnormal mobility" of the horns of the hyoid bone in which the tongue is fixed; that is, these horns were broken ."
This guy is a MEGA jackwagon..... she wasnt the only one missing eyes etc... SHE WAS FOUND HALF ROTTED FACE OVER A ROCK WITH RUNNING CREEK WATER POURING INTO THE FACE!
Where do these people come from.... is there no common sense?!?!
Loose-Cannon
04-09-2017 03:02 (GMT)
"From the conversation of the examining magistrate Lev Ivanov with the expert Boris Vozrozhdionny:
" Question: From the action of what force could Thibeaux obtain such injuries?
Answer: In the opinion, it is indicated that the injuries to the head of Thibeaux could be the result of a push, fall or throwing of the body. I do not believe that Thibeaux could get those injuries, falling short of his height, namely that he slipped and hit his head. The wide, depressed, multi-splintered and very deep fracture [of the calvarium and the base of the skull] may be the result of the throwing by a car moving at high speed, or another traffic accident. Such a trauma could have been caused had Thibeaux been struck by a strong gust of wind, with the subsequent fall and blow on the head against the rocks, ice, etc.
Question: Can one presume that Thibeaux was struck by a stone that was in the hand of a man?
Answer: In this case, the soft tissues would be injured, but this was not verified. "
He had on a winter cap!!!!! Meh BL dictates a 'shockwave' did this..... yeah, uh huh
Loose-Cannon
04-09-2017 02:58 (GMT)
"the stove in the tent was found disassembled and placed on the roof."
So which is it?? (bat in hand) It was stowed or disassembled?!?!
Ladies And Gents, This Is Your Admin Speaking
On behalf of the forum crew, let me welcome you aboard Dyatlov Pass Forum. The forum is a spin off from this message board. We’ve just hit our cruising altitude of 3000 posts and I have turned off the ability to leave messages, which means you are now free to move about the forum. However, for your own benefit, please register in case you encounter any unexpected facts or thoughts you might want to comment on or share with us.
Though I’ve turned off the maintenance mode, please note the “no cursing” light will remain on throughout the session, in compliance with FA (Forum Administration) regulations. You may not litter the boards and mods prohibit tampering with the spam detectors. Feel free to babble, tattle and preach on, though. Those aren’t forum crimes. Not yet!
On behalf of your forum crew, please, sit back and enjoy your trip.
You can comment to this message here http://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=30.0
http://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=29.0
You join yet.... Good. Lets do this. Ready when you are.
http://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/Rakitin-moderator.png
I call BS my friend. I told you several times, thats what general discussion is for... There is no isolation.
You are simply being a pissy-pants because its not called 'The BL Board" and you know it. FYI, I will fully represent the BL theory for you in the BL and UFO section.. No worries mate, nobody 'needs' to cater to you and kiss your royal behind. You had your chance...Know what Im saying?
Your not a fan of people having somewhere to discuss and develop NON BL theories. Fact
Write a book and make a movie while you're at it.
I don't think you realize that if you create a thread... You can change the original post at ANY TIME. I addition, if you were the moderator of the BL section, welp... You can move crap around all ya want in thar.
Again... General Discussion is where you will likely see alot of discussion. The individual (many merged) are where you go to talk only bl with your bl buddies, if you think that the bl section will be a ghost town.... I guess the theory needs improvement?
Its simple. Create a master post laying out your entire theory, sticky it so its at the top for all to see and never goes to page 2 etc. Modify it all ya want.... Lock it... Whatever!
Go to the General discussion board for mixing, matching, new theory ideas, combining, debating.... you know...GENERAL DISCUSSION.
Why would you be intimidated by other theories having their own discussion area where people can take a break from BL and expand their own ideas without heckling?
Since you are registered already, can you recount in a post the latest еxpose of the BL theory so I can update the site and we can have it at the beginning of the discussion. Don't think about the structure. Look how it's gonna look in a year time. http://taina.li
That's because the "THEORIES" section should be updatable by the nominated mentor.
Currently it's all too clumsy. I've refined the BL theory several times since that section was last changed.
That's how i would want it, a general discussion area and then a read only area for each theory to capture the argument todate. Having a seperate discussion area per theory is going to make things look lonely imo.
@Lyndasez - the interview is in "Journey to Dyatlov Pass, Keith McClosky".
#2 Call me crazy, but I don't think it was ever the owners intention to have a 4 mile long discussion/debate on a single page. Rather for it to be.... For comments. Namely on the site. As in.... "Hey, nice job and very informative", or "this is a great site with lots of information" etc.
#3 if you have input (always welcome) on the board structure, perhaps the place to discuss it is..... On the forum. Just a crazy thought.
In fact, I may recommend to Admin that this comment page be locked up. It's a vulnerability as a whole having no verification or registration and has diverged greatly from what I believe was the original intention.
Re: forum
Wouldn’t a simple COVERUP topic address notions of true or false since we have only intuition to go on?
Also, where is this Ivanov bossmans interview located? Hibinaud? Name?
**thanks for the clarification on rav3.
If true - then it rules out most of the theories, you are left with things the state must coverup- military accident, natural phenomena useful to the military (like BL), aliens perhaps.
If false then all theories are possible.
Kolevatov body (upper left) was found right next to Zolotaryov's as if the latter was carrying or protecting him. Tibo's body was positioned aside of them lower downstream
Oss, Svetlana. Don't Go There: Post Mortem (p. 76). LiberWriter.com. Kindle Edition.
Because the BL didn't more from the tent, hence the hot spot???
"You punked out ...not me."
dream on darling
The other forum I started a few years ago has 38,560 Posts in 3,297 Topics by 611 Members.
@KMM,
Where’s the action?
Went there ...and got stuck somewhere...
Just register there, It still gathering members, it will pick up
Where’s the action?
Went there ...and got stuck somewhere...
I will. For now check the maps I have amounted here http://dyatlovpass.com/maps
http://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php
Make a good informative post in a section, and you may find it stickied at the top of that board.
You really need to get a grip man. Just saying.
from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loose_cannon_(naval)
A loose cannon refers to a cannon which gets dislocated and moves about randomly on the decks of a battleship, creating a hazard to crew and equipment.
A famous literary depiction of a loose cannon appears in Victor Hugo's 1874 novel "Ninety-Three", whose plot is set during the French Revolution. In a well-known episode, a ship of anti-revolutionary French Royalists is sailing towards Brittany, to aid the anti-revolutionary Chouannerie rebellion. While at sea, a sailor fails to properly secure his cannon, which rolls out of control and damages the ship. The sailor risks his life to secure the cannon and save the ship. The Marquis de Lantenac, leader of the Royalists, awards the man a medal for his bravery and then executes him (without trial) for failing in his duty.
--- nice guys, those French ---
The widespread publication of Hugo's book, both in the original French and in translation to various other languages, helped make the concept of a loose cannon more well-known. It has eventually developed a metaphorical meaning relating to a person who is acting in a wild and unpredictable manner and who constitutes as much danger to his or her own side as to the enemy.
-- or could be a danger to the new forum --
Like I said... Its easy to have a General discussion board for basic theory talk. The subsections for individual victims simply hold relative information and a place to discuss them individually.... Thats why its condensed with subsections for each and will not dominate the index. The theories as of right now are not in subsections.
Basically you have a small rules and board information section, individual victim section..... Then all the theories. As of right now its very basic and not nearly as crazy as the one I linked to. That was simply an example of how its a dedicated DPI forum and not just a topic within a board of many other things... Like your two links.
Relax. Dont crap a Volvo just yet.
#1. Its more secure
#2. Page load speeds will be instant because there wont be a 3 mile long blog type single thread
#3. Its organized
#4. Relative information are easily stickied in each section for quick reference
#5. Pictures and vids are displayed directly within the thread and uploading is free without joining an image hosting site.
#6. There is a full blown messaging system to privately message other users.
#7. You can set an email notification of new replies to any thread you choose... Like ones your most interested in.
#8. A full blown search function... Who doesn't like that?!?!
#9. Rules. John Wolfe may have a very hard time with this one. Just sayin.
I can literally go on and on as to why a dedicated forum is.... A giod thing. Winking
That sounds OK to me!
Basically you have a small rules and board information section, individual victim section..... Then all the theories. As of right now its very basic and not nearly as crazy as the one I linked to. That was simply an example of how its a dedicated DPI forum and not just a topic within a board of many other things... Like your two links.
Relax. Dont crap a Volvo just yet.
#1. Its more secure
#2. Page load speeds will be instant because there wont be a 3 mile long blog type single thread
#3. Its organized
#4. Relative information are easily stickied in each section for quick reference
#5. Pictures and vids are displayed directly within the thread and uploading is free without joining an image hosting site.
#6. There is a full blown messaging system to privately message other users.
#7. You can set an email notification of new replies to any thread you choose... Like ones your most interested in.
#8. A full blown search function... Who doesn't like that?!?!
#9. Rules. John Wolfe may have a very hard time with this one. Just sayin.
I can literally go on and on as to why a dedicated forum is.... A giod thing.
O man one section leads to a subsection of a gazillion categories...can’t even navigate ...1 or 2 measly replies ea...oof!
I give up...
The admin is going to design their own theme, but this is a full blown forum, not just a blog section within a site.
More like http://taina.li/
{Havent seen a list/structure idea from anyone else as of yet. }
Thanks...
I prefer this: https://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/t.php?t=670317
Anyone else?
If you sectioning off each of those theory categories into the forum?
I can easily combine my theory with 3 or 4 of those single catergories, an one not listed, not going to each section to discuss....
Genesis:.
Rules.
Introductions.
Board Information .
Victims Discussion:.
YURI DOROSHENKO.
YURI KRIVONISCHENKO.
IGOR DYATLOV.
ZINAIDA KOLMOGOROVA.
RUSTEM SLOBODIN.
LYUDMILA DUBININA.
SEMYON ZOLOTARYOV.
ALEXANDER KOLEVATOV.
NIKOLAI THIBEAUX.
Dyatlov Pass: (Factual Information).
Materials of 1959.
Photography.
Case Files.
Maps and charts.
Diaries and letters.
Events before the incident.
Materials Modern:.
Publications / Media
Video / Photography
Theories Discussion:.
KGB agents.
Infrasound.
Secret Missile launches.
Lightning strike / Ball lightning.
Avalanche.
Shrooms.
Mansi natives.
Mistaken Identity .
UFO.
Yeti / Snowman .
Teleportation .
The stove.
Gravity fluctuation.
Club House:.
Members Lounge
Just messing with ya Nigel
{Basic stuffs.}
Sweet!
Could you clarify - - is this a pic to show ravine depth or yet another pit? Thanks
http://news.theparanormal.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/dyatlov-pass-ravine.jpg
Something tells me the forum will be simple and have no spam adds.
Its not like there is a trader section, vender section, feedback system, chatter box, retail section etc.
All Im currently doing is adjusting a ton of settings so it will work properly.
Also uploading several mods so that pictures are 100% up-loadable right from the posting window without having to join a photo hosting site and uploading it to there first. Also a Youtube mod so vids will play directly within the thread etc.
Basic stuffs.
"Will our past comments still be there, or will we start off new ?"
Not sure what you mean... past comments still be on this page? Its up to the admin whether or not they keep this pages contents.
Can someone answer who is who, left to right in this photo?
http://gipotezi.ru/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/ruchei.jpg
I’ve seen posts that put Tibi at right because they see 2 watches...???? Thanks.
Don't stop talking now... It will be a few days or more until the forum is ready.
Will our past comments still be there, or will we start off new ?
{Ditto rabid reindeer section.}
Don’t Go There... It knocked your BL theory outta the park...you couldn’t answer the heavy question — why did they run and stay away. You punked out ...not me.
I also added if you want an espionage theory I’d do that too...so enough with the talkin big. ;c}
If posters may be so bold as to weigh in on the forum construction ...I’d like to add my 2 cents.
Most of the DP forums that have 2”avatars & register info, fancy graphics, a gazillion categories, and bazillion photos clogging pages are largely defunct.
This comment section has the latest and most comments I’ve come across, due it’s simplicity— easy navigation, doesn’t hurt your eyes, can see many comments at once.
So my vote goes for simplicity.... :c)
Can be whatever you like.
http://image.ibb.co/d6hXqb/dpi2.png
Admin has email
I would recommend comrade Nigel as moderator of the hand to hand combat section as it wont need a lot of attention.
Have you considered an actual discussion forum?
IVANOV:
Ivanov unleash attack-pterodactyl on peasant hikers.
KMM:
SIR: have you concidered a pterodactyl laying an egg in front of the tent thus creating the warm spot ?
You know what they say about opinions.... He had several apparently, and UFO was at the top.
@IVANOV. I 'get' the comic relief, and its needed imho. No idea why you would be censored.
This is the one I've read...
(Internet version *)
© A.I.Rakitin, 2010-2011
© "Mysterious crimes of the past", 2010-2011.
I think both of those are combined in link I posted
Which was expanded? I scan them to see if they're headed where I'm going...
This is the one I've read...
(Internet version *)
© A.I.Rakitin, 2010-2011
© "Mysterious crimes of the past", 2010-2011.
Your post was by the same guy so I didn't inspect...
I'm not sure some of that wasn't expanded on and added by someone else
@KMM,
"If you are reading that long winded essay, it goes into US overflights over Russia. Too much so really IMO."
Haha, I've sped read the internet version. Yes, hopefully that guy must've been paid by the word.
That's the guy who said they were transferring radioactive material--yes?
Yes
I think in the end the military/special forces theory fits best – and we all know that this is not the first time someone comes to that conclusion. It is clear that at least some of the victims suffered major injuries, which only can be explained by the exposure to a tremendous/ explosive force. Who is in charge of explosives? The military.
And it seems that there was a lot of cover up done afterwards, to disguise the truth. And who is very experienced and good in covering something up? The military.
I think most of us would agree, that we don?t have an unlucky accident here, but a murder case. (Who has the license to kill? The military).
And after the homicide the military had enough time to cover their tracks, as the rescue team arrived after more than 20 days at the crime scene. And the rescue team was at first not aware that they had to deal with a crime scene. This became clear only after 2 months, when the more violently hurt bodies where found. All the evidence that may have been there initially was long ago gone. …and closer we will not get to the truth, as much as we try. We will never exactly know why the hikers had to die, nor what exactly made them leave their tent, nor what exactly happened that night - as much as we whish. There is only one way to know more than we already do: it may be that somewhere in forgotten secret archives (of the russain military maybe ;-) the report of that disastrous night including the scensored pieces is kept and hopefully released one day – but I doubt this will happen. Howsoever: In my opinion most of the other theories don?t fit and are contradictory (including ball lightning, drugs/shrooms, diseases, avalanche, infrasound, yeti…).
"If you are reading that long winded essay, it goes into US overflights over Russia. Too much so really IMO."
Haha, I've sped read the internet version. Yes, hopefully that guy must've been paid by the word.
That's the guy who said they were transferring radioactive material--yes?
:-)
I don't think you will get many arguments on a coverup. Just the reasons for it .
If you are reading that long winded essay, it goes into US overflights over Russia. Too much so really IMO.
"A coverup DOES NOT, have to have anything to do with BL !"
I strongly agree.
----
@Nigel,
I doubt the interest in the eye witness accounts of lights was due to harnessing BL.
Due to the nuclear test ban its clear to me the Russians were paranoid of American spy planes or balloons ....being those "lights."
@Lyndasez - well if the interview with Evgeniy Okishev is to be believed there was a coverup ordered at a high level after the criminal investigation was underway, the clear order was to falsify the report as an accident whilst the real one was confiscated. From memory the second highest officer in the Russian criminal prosecution service travelled 400 miles to personally attend the autopsies on the first five bodies over three days. Gives you a feeling that the pathologist had the outcomes written for him.
So if you embrace that interview as genuine there are few options. BL still fits as it could be the Soviets were investigating trying to weaponise it. They could have even been inducing it perhaps, hence the several eye witness accounts in that period...
A coverup DOES NOT, have to have anything to do with BL !
So if you embrace that interview as genuine there are few options. BL still fits as it could be the Soviets were investigating trying to weaponise it. They could have even been inducing it perhaps, hence the several eye witness accounts in that period...
Are you saying your BL theory has changed? Now you are onto weaponised BL? Not quite reading you.
When you were quoting "Don't Go There," you demanded facts from me believing in no cover up, now you've gone full circle???
I can go full on espionage...
BL, you're omitting to dial in what we now know about the coverup. It had to have been something very sensitive. That now rules out a huge number of possibilities including rabid reindeer and food poisoning btw.
My money is on either the military testing or interested in weaponising BL. That Kapitsa was working in this field at the same time and some of the group were working in nuclear resonates with me, they would have heard his theory for BL and people would be talking about it as a solution to the mansi siberian lights perhaps. So some intersects there.
Accidental deaths from military testing - well i see it as a coverup being launched late in the day after the state's legal arm found the first five and began an investigation. So i discount the tidying up theory, whatever it was didn't leave traces other than as reported.
Do you have something to add to the conversation other then but-hurt?
"They acted like people exposed to a high order Toxin that effected their CNS. Like LSD , nerve agent, or several food born toxins would have. Did anyone run test on the Kasha for Ergot"
They did, but the file/results are conveniently left out of the case files.
" Both strips were free from emulsion damage but there was a small section of underdeveloped film on the ten frame strip due to the layers of film getting stuck together in the developing tank. The most glaring item to begin with, in the examination of Zolotarev’s film, was that nine frames were missing"
Missing...how? Cut, unused???
The rest is gibberish, what are we looking at negs, photos of negs....what?
And if they photos have anything to do with those on this site...look yourself....says damaged.
Btw. You can't help but get emulsion damage if strips stuck together...double talk.
@Nigel Evans
"also there was no blood or even signs of a struggle at the tent.
Just guessing that there weren't any animal footprints either."
----------
Tent was not orderly ...entrance was littered with items.
Zinas face was bloodied, her back bruised, numerous signs of cuts an bruises on others...
Tracks: Snowed over...the 2 pair of men's boots left no tracks as well.
Umm, you're supposed to answer this as well, BL vs Deranged animal!
Just guessing that there weren't any animal footprints either.
"It just doesn't fit the facts, they left the tent to walk down the slope half undressed leaving knives and axes behind. Same with the yeti theory."
Yeti?! I never said yeti, that's within the realm of your fantasies. Keep it simple.
Do you have time and light to gather weapons and clothes if an animal pounced your tent and injured people?! The surprise attack alone would unnerve you. Next question?
It just doesn't fit the facts, they left the tent to walk down the slope half undressed leaving knives and axes behind. Same with the yeti theory, you'd get your boots on and take all your weapons.
@Ray - the biggest argument against hallucinating et al is that they all move with the same purpose which is difficult to explain with natural poisoning, affecting all nine the same - quite improbable. Then they make quite rational choices, leaving a flashlight halfway down turned on (presumed to be a beacon to assist the return) collecting firewood, stripping bodies for extra clothing, building seats in a den (at least, if not building the den entirely).
I'll put my rabid/deranged animal theory against your BL anyday, the statistics are with me....too simple for you?
-----------------------
First case of rabies reported in wild animal in Interior Alaska Tim Mowry/tmowry@newsminer.com; ... There have been cases of rabies in caribou and moose, ...
Moscow, Feb 13 (IANS/RIA Novosti) Two residents of Moscow have reportedly been hospitalized while 12 of their relatives are undergoing treatment after coming into contact with a rabid moose.
Rabid deer confirmed in Cherokee County, N.C. - Carolina ...
Rabies is a disease, ... elk and moose causing a characteristic spongy degeneration of the brain of infected animals resulting in emaciation, ...
Rabid Wolf Attacks Hunter | Alaska Public Media
A Moose Hunter is considering himself lucky to be alive after being attacked by a rabid wolf. Rodrick Phillip, age 35 of Kongignak, was hunting on the ...
mad moose?
crazy cat?
delirious dog?
barmy bat?
potty penguin?
Good question. The answer has to be that as a true professional he did and they kept them. Valentin Yakimenko's study of the group's negatives established that there are several (nine?) frames missing from that roll, the one producing the 30x. Maybe we only know of these pictures due to a failure to recognise their content.
Secrecy would of went out of the window once BL showed up !
"Maybe, but why would these same 2 veer off from the group then rejoin them later?"
I don't think those are their (rav3) prints, think that was 2 yuris.... They (3) could've gone so fast tumbled or what have you, the warm feet left the prints. That's why I went with the simple rabid animal, to explain to Nigel, how his theory falters. Disoriented animal drawn to light pounces tent. They creep downhill, Igor tells 2 to gather wood an build fire, animal lingers, animal makes sudden movement Luddy heads for the ravine, animal takes after....very simple but one in many...
@KMM,
Here's how I see it with the 3 in question.
Firstly, you don't suit up to take a pee. So, I think before lights out, SZ & Tibi went out for a smoke.
Maybe, but why would these same 2 veer off from the group then rejoin them later?
Here's how I see it with the 3 in question.
Firstly, you don't suit up to take a pee. So, I think before lights out, SZ & Tibi went out for a smoke. (2 folded blankets amongst the rumpled)
Alex may have had to pee and joined them....they are panicked by something, alert others and high-tail down hill for cover.
ALEX---->"a ski jacket of black paper on a zipper, unbuttoned, right and left breast pockets and cuffs unbuttoned, the buttons are intact. The left sleeve of the jacket on the upper side has fabric defects in the area of ??25 x 12 x 13 cm, the edges of the fabric in the indicated place are adorned. On the right elbow of the jacket there are insignificant tissue burdens 7-8 cm long. Above the jacket is a brown sweatshirt with sweatshirts, then under it is a second gray sweater, a worn, cotton cowboy in a blue, red and black cage, with two breast pockets. On the right pocket is an English safety pin, it contained a flat key from the lock, the collar and cuffs of the cowboy are unbuttoned. "
Native shirt with fleece, pale gray, worn. A canvas trousers are a khaki overall on straps with an elastic band. In the right pockets of the trousers a soggy box of matches, at the bottom trousers on metal buckles with tears, beneath them are ski trousers of a blue bikey with side clasps, in the pocket of their handkerchief. On the legs woolen socks are dirty, white, homemade with knots of burning, brown cotton socks. On his left leg are three brown cotton socks, under them on the ankle joint, a gauze bandage. Pants gray-gray paired with a shirt, blue satin panties"
He didn't have boots.
I've wondered about the 2 that went off by themselves, later rejoining to rest. Read it was the 2 best dressed, NTB and SZ
O Cripes, more reading. Just kidding, thanks for sharing!
"link to A.I. Rakitin's essay, ALL 30 chapters of it!"
There was a moratorium on nuclear tests between '58-'60. However, they could've stumbled on tainted aftermath of previous tests. Hence, the 3 yr ban on traversing the area. (Cleanup)
To me this isn't the simplest of explanations. Too many variables to account for.
Why we're the 3 at the ravine dressed warmest?
No burns attributable to lightning strikes.
The victims panicked behavior to a natural phenomena.
No evidence of unexplained solid ice, craters, surface damage.
Why was the first to die, the 2 by the fire and so forth.
Plus if we want to include tearing of tent from inside?
If I were to, off the top of my head think of a simple reason to panic it would be a rabid reindeer pounced the tent stayed awhile there and butted the RAV4, left others alone to venture back to tent....
But I see your starting to think of other possibilities. Thats a good thang.
http://www.interesmir.ru/smert-idushhaya-po-sledu-glava-1/
But given the coverup here from Party HQ the favourite theory now has to be either military accident of highly sensitive weapon technology (neutron weapons might be a good avenue as there's a connection with tritium and beta emitters) or accidental encounter with a natural phenomena that was being looked at by the military. Whatever it was it had to be kept a state secret. This wasn't mansi hunters et al and if the state wanted them silenced they would have just disappeared. So it looks like a genuine accident that brought in the law agencies and then the state woke up to what was happening late in the day and ordered a coverup, confiscated the prosecutor's file ordering a dummy one to be created.
Interesting that Pytor Kapitsa (author of the microwave cavity hypothesis for BL) was working on high energy microwave plasmas during this period - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyotr_Kapitsa - "He invented high power microwave generators (1950–1955)".
[ http://image.ibb.co/gLsKG5/EnV6O.jpg .
I do NOT trust these loggers!]
No, and given their goals Igor and company probably gave them lots of details of the hike.
- I -
Goals and objectives:
1. Acquaintance with the nature and economy of the Northern Urals.?
2. Conducting conversations and reports among the population.?
3. Increase the athletic skills of the participants in the trek.?
4. Study of the depth of freezing of soils according to surveys and observations of residents of the Northern Urals.
If you know...I've read through the case files and saw no account of folding shovels recovered. I miss something?
( if the explosion was small enough and in the snowbank , or even just in the ravine, there'd be little other damage it would direct the blast along the ravine and straight up. If they had been permitted to return for a site inspection in the summer maybe they would have seen something, snapped saplings perhaps.) wwwwhaaaaat happened to this???===> "The theory suggests that the ravine lightning strike hit close to the den and vaporized a substantial quantity of stream water, snow and ice can produce 300,000 amps and temperatures several times hotter than the surface of the sun, e.g. 30,000C) creating an explosion amplified by the confines of the ravine that threw the den and it's occupants"
Abandon ship! Theory is sinking!!
Good job! ;c}
(The mechanism of damage formation is as follows: a blow, compression from the right to the left with a solid blunt object with a traumatic surface comparable in size to the chest of Zolotarev.). <===A SHOVEL or from the look of that 13ft, immaculate den, a backhoe...
That's were Rustem, Zina and Igor get their hands and fists scratched etc digging them out.
"What happens when your standing in a creek of boulders next to a wall of pack ice when it collapses/slides/shifts/settles into the ravine? "
You're guaranteed to get broken limbs. A key feature of this injury profile is the strong crushing force required to snap ribs that doesn't break limbs, or even a collar bone.
#1 they were not in the den.
#2 plenty of evidence suggesting the den didn't exist in the first place.
I still for the life of me do not understand why you think an explosion 'had' to have happen. Your a physics guy... What happens when your standing in a creek of boulders next to a wall of pack ice when it collapses/slides/shifts/settles into the ravine? An explosion does not have to exist for this to happen.
Correct but the chunk of the den wall pushed into her chest by an explosion outside could be. Then the roof den collapsing gives you bi phasic.
Explosion card reinstated.
@KMM - if the explosion was small enough and in the snowbank , or even just in the ravine, there'd be little other damage it would direct the blast along the ravine and straight up. If they had been permitted to return for a site inspection in the summer maybe they would have seen something, snapped saplings perhaps.
I just read a couple pages on this. I didn't know much about it
"The expert, Vozrozhdenniy interprets petty-hemorrhage as a spot of Wischnewsky. But at the same time, in the stomach of Dyatlov, "about 100 cubic cm of liquid mucous mass of a brownish reddish color", "the mucous membrane of the stomach is lilac-red, swollen," and "the lips are covered with gore".
Most likely, Dyatlov had vomiting before his death with an admixture of blood. The source of bleeding is the gastric mucosa. What caused such a vomiting - poisoning or abnormality of the stomach - can not be established, since there is no case in the materials of the forensic chemical and histological examination." .
"5. In each of the nine acts, the Vozrozhdenniy writes that pieces of internal organs are taken for forensic chemical research. But in the case materials there is not a single result of the conducted forensic chemical research, which should at least show the presence or absence of alcohol. But, a little nuance - to determine the alcohol take blood and urine. Vozrozhdenniy points out that parts of internal organs are taken for a forensic chemical study. This means that he directed the bodies for a forensic chemical study, not only for alcohol, but for the presence of poisons." .
"It is very alarming that the results of the forensic histological examination of the first five corpses are absent in the criminal case! And, as our expert suggested, it is possible that the results of that histology were intentionally concealed. Special attention: all 9 corpses take pieces of internal organs for forensic chemical examination. But there is not a single result in the case materials! And this gives us reason to suspect that chemical experts could find traces in bodies, for example, of some sort of combat poison." .
Poison, poison..... LOL.
And you thought I was WAY out in left field for suggesting a possible ergot poisoning.
"At the same time, there was no system to free the tent from snow. First they took out a few stale blankets, then buckets, a stove, two or THREE SACKS OF BISCUITS , shoes and other things. Things were stacked in backpacks, and dragged the tent to the search engine camp.
Naturally, after such manipulations on the tent, sections and torn pieces could appear." .
"The tent had an ice ax, an extra pair of skis. On the tent was a Chinese lantern in the unlit state. 9 backpacks, 9 pairs of skis were found in the tent, all of them were under the tent floor, 8 pairs of shoes, 3.5 pairs of boots, quilted jackets and MANY BISCUITS, half a sack of sugar, a large number of concentrates, cereals, soups, etc. , cocoa, axes, saw, cameras, diaries of students, documents and money." .
"Apparently the group was in the final stage of dressing and preparing for the night at the time of the incident. In the near half found a few crusts from the loin. There are rusks scattered all over the tent." .
Rusks...... https://www.google.com/search?q=rusks&rlz=1C1AOHY_enUS710US711&oq=rusks&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.2261j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 .
So I state AGAIN.... never crap on someones theory without proper consideration of possibility.
http://image.ibb.co/n6KMUQ/meYZP.jpg .
http://image.ibb.co/gLsKG5/EnV6O.jpg .
I do NOT trust these loggers!
An explosion that left no BLAST pattern, as in melted snow, felled trees.
The forensic expert and criminalist expert Churkina refused to sign off on the official autopsy, but Ivanov signed..... AS OF TODAY THE AUTOPSY REPORTS ON RAV4 ARE INVALID AS TWO REQUIRED SIGNATURES ARE ABSENT! .
https://image.ibb.co/dFTBya/sme.jpg
in support of Black Dahlia: people are always seeing LIGHTS in Hollywood.
Last time I looked, a blast wave is neither solid, nor blunt.
Explosion card denied.
Funny... that isn't what ANY of the medical examiners have said.
YURI DOROSHENKO.
1) With such a transformation of the brain, it is impossible to see the swelling of the meninges! .
2) The presence of dark blood is not a sign of death from hypothermia, on the contrary, when supercooled, the blood is bright red due to the high content of oxyhemoglobin.
3) The resulted statement about a frostbite of fingers of extremities is not proved. There is nothing about this in the text of the study.
4) These circumstances (see General Comment, point 3) allow us to say that Doroshenko's death came as a result of hypothermia, only in a hypothetical form.
Yuri Krivonishenko.
1) It's strange, but Krivonischenko's craniocerebral trauma is only in the description of the act, and in conclusion about the reasons for his death there is none. But this damage was formed as a result of a blow (or blows) by a solid blunt object (or objects) in the right temporal and occipital areas of the head of Yuri. It can not be ruled out that the trauma could be obtained by falling from the standing position and by hitting the right temporal and occipital areas of the head against a hard blunt object. With such a trauma there could be hemorrhages in the brain, but the disintegration of the brain substance in Krivonishchenko destroyed all the informative signs.
2) Again the same rake. In the description of the act about the bite is written, and in the conclusion about death - not a word. But this one line gives reason to believe that Krivonishenko himself bitten himself by the finger, snatching a piece of leather. What does it mean? Perhaps Yuri tried to restrain the cry with severe pain. Perhaps, it was important that someone at that moment did not hear it.
3)I can assume that these "wounds" - cuts - were formed from a sharp object. Knife, glass, blade - anything.
4) It is doubtful that these abrasions were formed when the person fell face down on the snow. Then the nose and the superciliary arches would be buried, and there would be more scratches on the forehead. These abrasions of Krivonischenko from blows with a solid blunt object (or hitting against similar objects) at an acute angle.
5) Suppose, second-degree burns can be obtained by negligence, falling asleep at the fire. But third-degree burns are charring (!) Of soft tissues. To achieve this effect, you need to keep your feet in the fire for a long time. Get in a dream such a burn is impossible, burns already 1-st degree cause severe pain and awakening. In this case, third-degree burns could be formed if a person was in deep depression, for example, into intoxication (he did not feel pain or could not pull his leg off, - Auth.) Next to a strong fire.
6) Wounds on the nose are caused by animals and after the death of Yuri. Otherwise, there would be traces of bleeding.
IGOR DIATLOV.
1) At the autopsy, Igor Dyatlov's internal organs were in rotting state. Therefore, it is incorrect to assert that the internal organs are full of blood, as their structure is modified by postmortem processes. And the presence of dark blood is not a sign of death from hypothermia, on the contrary, when supercooled, the blood is bright red due to the high content of oxyhemoglobin.
2) Most likely, Dyatlov had vomiting before his death with an admixture of blood. The source of bleeding is the gastric mucosa. What caused such a vomiting - poisoning or abnormality of the stomach - can not be established, since there is no case in the materials of the forensic chemical and histological examination.
3) But these damage from falling on the snow will not get. They could appear from circular compression in the ankle, for example as a result of binding by a rope.
4) Obviously, shortly before his death, Igor had to hit with a brush, clenched into a fist, over a hard object.
ZINAIDA KOLMOGOROVA.
1)And these injuries the girl received, most likely, from punching on a solid object. When falling on the snow with an emphasis on the fists, there would be other damage.
2) It was formed as a result of a blow by a solid blunt object, which had an elongated shape (stick, branch of a tree, etc.).
RUSTEM SLOBODIN.
1) With such a transformation of the brain, it is impossible to see edema of the meninges.
2) This trauma was formed as a result of a blow by a solid blunt object or from a blow to the head about such an object.
3) This assertion is unreasonable. There was blood under the dura mater. And this gives all grounds to say that Slobodin had a subdural hemorrhage (hemorrhage under the dura mater). According to available data it is impossible to exclude the onset of Slobodin's death as a result of craniocerebral trauma.
4) Traces of secretions of parched blood formed as a result of a trauma to the nose.
5) These abrasions could be formed as a result of the action of a solid blunt object, as well as the impact of a fist clenched on a solid object.
LYUDMILA DUBININA.
1) It should be noted that the fractures of the ribs were formed biphasic. But there is not a word about this in the act of the Renaissance. In the first phase, as a result of a blow to the right side of the thorax by a solid blunt object with a traumatic surface comparable in size to the length of the rib cage, there was a fracture of the right lobes II, III, IV, and V in the mid-axillary line. In the second phase, as a result of compression of the thoracic anteriorly backward with a hard blunt object, there was a fracture of the ribs II, III, IV, V on the right along the midclavicular line, and fracture of the II, III, IV, V, VI, VII ribs on the left along the midclavicular line. In the same phase, a hemorrhage in the region of the sternum was formed, and a bruise of the heart also occurred.
2)Neither during the throw, nor during the fall, marked damage to the chest by Dubinin could not have been formed. Similar injuries occur when rolling through the chest of a massive blunt object. For example, breast trauma, similar to those detected in Dubinina, is characteristic of a traffic accident - a car crossing the chest with the victim lying on his back.
3) Apparently, Lyudmila hit hard on a hard blunt object, or hit her with a similar object.
4) It is not clear that the expert considers them normal mobility, because in norm, with a whole bone, they are immovable in general. Why are they mobile (pathology of the structure, fracture, if fracture, then where) in the Act is not described. If the bone was actually broken, then it is impossible to tell whether this fracture is alive or not, since the Act does not describe the nature of the soft tissues surrounding the bone. The study of the hyoid bone was not carried out.
SEMYON ZOLOTARYOV.
1) Fractures in the ribs of Zolotarev have been intravital, as evidenced by the results of a histological examination (hemorrhages in the soft tissues - Auth.) And the presence of blood in the pleural cavity. The mechanism of damage formation is as follows: a blow, compression from the right to the left with a solid blunt object with a traumatic surface comparable in size to the chest of Zolotarev. To break thus the ribs, falling on a flat solid surface, is unreal.
2) Both Zolotarev and Dubinina had similar injuries posthumously, as a result of damage to the corpse by animals.
ALEXANDER KOLEVATOV.
1) This conclusion is groundless and in no way follows from the results of the forensic medical examination. There are no characteristic signs: no scarlet stains, no scarlet blood (just scarlet, not dark), Wischnewsky spots, and a number of microscopic signs.
2) The deformation of the neck in the text of the act itself is not described in the following. Not specified and the nature of deformation - congenital or acquired. What exactly is deformed and how. And according to the available description it is also impossible to determine - the deformation of the neck in the lifetime or posthumous.
NIKOLAI TIBO-BRINOLS.
1) This trauma was formed as a result of a blow to the right temporal region with a blunt solid object with a limited traumatic surface that does not exceed the dimensions of the lesion. Stone, iron, or something else that is much stronger than the bones of the skull.
2) This again formed as a result of the impact of a solid blunt object. Direction of impact from front to back towards the anteroideal surface of the right shoulder at an angle close to the straight.
3) In a histological study there is no record of the study of this bone. But there is such a record - "Rib - Between the bone beams blood in a state of putrefaction." This suggests that Vozrozhdenniy at the time of the autopsy revealed a fracture of the rib and took it for histological examination, which showed the intravital nature of the fracture. But in the text of the Act there is not a word about rib fractures in Thibault Brignoles.
GENERAL REMARKS.
All the inspection protocols for the location of the detection of corpses and forensic medical examinations are made, roughly speaking, hackneyed:.
1. The examination was conducted without the participation of a physician-specialist in the field of forensic medicine, which is a violation of the procedure for examining corpses at the place of their detection. The presence and localization of cadaveric spots and the state of the skin in general are not described, the visible lesions on the body are only partially described. Clothes and the position of corpses are described very superficially.
2. Forensic shooting of the scene of the incident was not carried out, the photos are not very informative, closer to the artistic shooting than to the forensic photography.
3. The conclusions of the first five acts of forensic examination were written as a photocopy:.
"... Doroshenko's death (or Krivonischenko, Kolmogorova, Dyatlov, Slobodin) was caused by low temperature, as evidenced by edema of the meninges, a sharp fullness of the internal organs, an overflow of the dark blood of the heart cavities, the presence of Wischnewsky spots on the stomach mucosa, frostbite fingers of the extremities ... ".
4. In each of the nine acts, the expert indicates that the pieces of internal organs are taken for histological examination, but the results in the criminal case are only in the last four - Thibo-Brignol NV, Kolevatova AS, Zolotareva AA and Dubinina LA It can be assumed that the histology of the first five corpses was deliberately hidden, since it was clearly more informative than the corpses found two months later.
5. In each of the nine acts, the Vozrozhdenniy writes that pieces of internal organs are taken for forensic chemical research. But in the case materials there is not a single result of the conducted forensic chemical research, which should at least show the presence or absence of alcohol. But, a little nuance - to determine the alcohol take blood and urine. Vozrozhdenniy points out that parts of internal organs are taken for a forensic chemical study. This means that he directed the bodies for a forensic chemical study, not only for alcohol, but for the presence of poisons.
6. And, finally, the arrangement of cadaveric spots does not coincide with the position of some corpses at the time of their detection. Rustem Slobodin and Yuri Doroshenko found face down, and the cadaver spots the expert described on the back surface of the trunk. The same description is also given by Zinaida Kolmogorova, who, as indicated in the examination report, found lying on her side.
Semyon also took a crushing force from the right to the left, like if he had been sitting next to Luda in the den...
But here's the smoking gun :-
"This sign indicates a bilateral rupture of the lungs"
That's got to be burst lungs, from an explosion....
It should be noted that the fractures of the ribs were formed biphasic. But there is not a word about this in the act of the Renaissance. In the first phase, as a result of a blow to the right side of the thorax by a solid blunt object with a traumatic surface comparable in size to the length of the rib cage, there was a fracture of the right lobes II, III, IV, and V in the mid-axillary line.
In the second phase, as a result of compression of the thoracic anteriorly backward with a hard blunt object, there was a fracture of the ribs II, III, IV, V on the right along the midclavicular line, and fracture of the II, III, IV, V, VI, VII ribs on the left along the midclavicular line. In the same phase, a hemorrhage in the region of the sternum was formed, and a bruise of the heart also occurred.
Like something heavy rolled over her...
This is was based on a non biased viewpoint from a regarded forensic expert WITHOUT Ivanov and the funky bunch of communist state coverup artists standing over him.
GENERAL REMARKS.
All the inspection protocols for the location of the detection of corpses and forensic medical examinations are made, roughly speaking, hackneyed:.
1. The examination was conducted without the participation of a physician-specialist in the field of forensic medicine, which is a violation of the procedure for examining corpses at the place of their detection. The presence and localization of cadaveric spots and the state of the skin in general are not described, the visible lesions on the body are only partially described. Clothes and the position of corpses are described very superficially.
2. Forensic shooting of the scene of the incident was not carried out, the photos are not very informative, closer to the artistic shooting than to the forensic photography.
3. The conclusions of the first five acts of forensic examination were written as a photocopy:.
"... Doroshenko's death (or Krivonischenko, Kolmogorova, Dyatlov, Slobodin) was caused by low temperature, as evidenced by edema of the meninges, a sharp fullness of the internal organs, an overflow of the dark blood of the heart cavities, the presence of Wischnewsky spots on the stomach mucosa, frostbite fingers of the extremities ... ".
4. In each of the nine acts, the expert indicates that the pieces of internal organs are taken for histological examination, but the results in the criminal case are only in the last four - Thibo-Brignol NV, Kolevatova AS, Zolotareva AA and Dubinina LA It can be assumed that the histology of the first five corpses was deliberately hidden, since it was clearly more informative than the corpses found two months later.
5. In each of the nine acts, the Vozrozhdenniy writes that pieces of internal organs are taken for forensic chemical research. But in the case materials there is not a single result of the conducted forensic chemical research, which should at least show the presence or absence of alcohol. But, a little nuance - to determine the alcohol take blood and urine. Vozrozhdenniy points out that parts of internal organs are taken for a forensic chemical study. This means that he directed the bodies for a forensic chemical study, not only for alcohol, but for the presence of poisons.
6. And, finally, the arrangement of cadaveric spots does not coincide with the position of some corpses at the time of their detection. Rustem Slobodin and Yuri Doroshenko found face down, and the cadaver spots the expert described on the back surface of the trunk. The same description is also given by Zinaida Kolmogorova, who, as indicated in the examination report, found lying on her side.
FROM AUTHORS:.
We thank our expert Eduard Tumanov for the work done. And now, in a clearer picture of the injuries of the woodpeckers, we can safely assume that a fight has occurred on the pass. With poachers? Or with someone else, or ... we spread our hands. At the same time, strong rib fractures in Dubinina and Zolotarev indicate that such injuries do not get in fights. That is, according to the cleavages of the ribs you can see that they did not kick a man, there ... with boots, but only one blow and some great object were dealt. What would that mean?
It is very alarming that the results of the forensic histological examination of the first five corpses are absent in the criminal case! And, as our expert suggested, it is possible that the results of that histology were intentionally concealed. Special attention: all 9 corpses take pieces of internal organs for forensic chemical examination. But there is not a single result in the case materials! And this gives us reason to suspect that chemical experts could find traces in bodies, for example, of some sort of combat poison.
We are going to continue the investigation further and we will be glad to new specialists who can help us on this topic.
NICOLAI, POSSIBLE, BEAT BY HEAD AND BY RIBS.
NIKOLAI TIBO-BRINOLS.
The certificate of forensic medical expert Vozrozhdenniy from May 9, 1959:.
"... In the right temple, there is a distinct hemorrhage in the right temporal muscle ... a depressed fracture of the right temporal parietal region is determined in a 9 x 7 cm area with a defect in bone tissue and a temporal bone 3 x 3.5 x 2 cm in size. the area of ??the bone is pressed into the cavity of the skull and is located on the dura mater ... in the middle cranium of the pit a multifaceted fracture of the right temporal bone with a divergence of cracks was found ... ».
Tumanov:.
This trauma was formed as a result of a blow to the right temporal region with a blunt solid object with a limited traumatic surface that does not exceed the dimensions of the lesion. Stone, iron, or something else that is much stronger than the bones of the skull.
The certificate of forensic medical expert Vozrozhdenniy from May 9, 1959:.
"... In the area of ??the right shoulder on the anterior-internal surface - a spilled bruise 10x12 cm in size is greenish-blue at the level of the middle and lower third. In the area of ??bruising, hemorrhages in the underlying soft tissue ... ".
Tumanov:.
This again formed as a result of the impact of a solid blunt object. Direction of impact from front to back towards the anteroideal surface of the right shoulder at an angle close to the straight.
The certificate of forensic medical expert Vozrozhdenniy from May 9, 1959:.
"For histological examination, a part of the temporal-parietal bone is taken from the right.".
Tumanov:.
In a histological study there is no record of the study of this bone. But there is such a record - "Rib - Between the bone beams blood in a state of putrefaction." This suggests that Vozrozhdenniy at the time of the autopsy revealed a fracture of the rib and took it for histological examination, which showed the intravital nature of the fracture. But in the text of the Act there is not a word about rib fractures in Thibault Brignoles.
ALEXANDER KOLEVATOV.
The certificate of forensic medical expert Vozrozhdenniy from May 9, 1959:.
"Based on the study of the corpse Kolevatov believe that his death came as a result of exposure to low temperature."
Tumanov:.
This conclusion is groundless and in no way follows from the results of the forensic medical examination. There are no characteristic signs: no scarlet stains, no scarlet blood (just scarlet, not dark), Wischnewsky spots, and a number of microscopic signs.
The certificate of forensic medical expert Vozrozhdenniy from May 9, 1959:.
"The neck is long, thin, deformed in the region of the thyroid cartilage.".
Tumanov:.
The deformation of the neck in the text of the act itself is not described in the following. Not specified and the nature of deformation - congenital or acquired. What exactly is deformed and how. And according to the available description it is also impossible to determine - the deformation of the neck in the lifetime or posthumous.
Now SZ
SEMYON ZOLOTARYOV .
The certificate of forensic medical expert Vozrozhdenniy from May 9, 1959:.
"... it is determined by the II, III, IV, V, VI rib fracture on the right along the okologo-ore and mid-axillary line with hemorrhage into the adjacent intercostal muscles.".
Tumanov:.
Fractures in the ribs of Zolotarev have been intravital, as evidenced by the results of a histological examination (hemorrhages in the soft tissues - Auth.) And the presence of blood in the pleural cavity.
The mechanism of damage formation is as follows: a blow, compression from the right to the left with a solid blunt object with a traumatic surface comparable in size to the chest of Zolotarev. To break thus the ribs, falling on a flat solid surface, is unreal.
The certificate of forensic medical expert Vozrozhdenniy from May 9, 1959:.
"... In the region of the superciliary arches and eye sockets, a defect of soft tissues of a rounded shape at a site of 7 x 6 cm with thin edges, with exposure of the bones of the facial skull. The glaznitsa gap. There are no eyeballs ... ".
Tumanov:.
Both Zolotarev and Dubinina had similar injuries posthumously, as a result of damage to the corpse by animals.
Now LYUDMILA DUBININA.
The certificate of forensic medical expert Vozrozhdenniy from May 9, 1959:.
" Dubinin 's death came as a result of a large hemorrhage to the right ventricle of the heart, multiple bilateral fracture of the ribs, lethal internal bleeding into the chest cavity.".
Tumanov:.
It should be noted that the fractures of the ribs were formed biphasic. But there is not a word about this in the act of the Renaissance. In the first phase, as a result of a blow to the right side of the thorax by a solid blunt object with a traumatic surface comparable in size to the length of the rib cage, there was a fracture of the right lobes II, III, IV, and V in the mid-axillary line.
In the second phase, as a result of compression of the thoracic anteriorly backward with a hard blunt object, there was a fracture of the ribs II, III, IV, V on the right along the midclavicular line, and fracture of the II, III, IV, V, VI, VII ribs on the left along the midclavicular line. In the same phase, a hemorrhage in the region of the sternum was formed, and a bruise of the heart also occurred.
The certificate of forensic medical expert Vozrozhdenniy from May 9, 1959:.
"... in the pleural cavities contained up to one and a half liters of liquid dark blood.".
Tumanov:.
This sign indicates a bilateral rupture of the lungs, but the act does not say a word about it. Yes, and the statement of the expert should be taken critically, since after the onset of death before the moment of forensic medical examination 3 (!) Months passed, and as a result of rotting tissues in the pleural cavities accumulated exudate (putrefactive fluid - Auth.), Which mingled with broken blood.
The certificate of forensic medical expert Vozrozhdenniy from May 9, 1959:.
"... are the result of the impact of a large force, followed by the fall, throw or bruise of the chest area by Dubinina.".
Tumanov:.
Neither during the throw, nor during the fall, marked damage to the chest by Dubinin could not have been formed. Similar injuries occur when rolling through the chest of a massive blunt object. For example, breast trauma, similar to those detected in Dubinina, is characteristic of a traffic accident - a car crossing the chest with the victim lying on his back.
The certificate of forensic medical expert Vozrozhdenniy from May 9, 1959:.
"... On the outer and anterior surface of the left thigh, in the middle third, the diffuse bruise of cyanotic-lilac color in a section measuring 10 x 5 cm, with a hemorrhage into the thickness of the skin ...".
Tumanov:.
Apparently, Lyudmila hit hard on a hard blunt object, or hit her with a similar object.
The certificate of forensic medical expert Vozrozhdenniy from May 9, 1959:.
"Horns of the hyoid bone of unusual mobility." Then comes the word "broken", but the expert in the Act hid it.
Tumanov:.
It is not clear that the expert considers them normal mobility, because in norm, with a whole bone, they are immovable in general. Why are they mobile (pathology of the structure, fracture, if fracture, then where) in the Act is not described. If the bone was actually broken, then it is impossible to tell whether this fracture is alive or not, since the Act does not describe the nature of the soft tissues surrounding the bone. The study of the hyoid bone was not carried out.
RUSTEM SLOBODIN (found on the slope of Mount Holatchahl).
The certificate of forensic medical expert of the Vozrozhdenniy from March 8, 1959 :.
"... edema of the meninges, fullness of the internal organs, Wischnewsky spots on the stomach mucosa ... The dura mater of the cyanosis, the vessels of its weak blood filling. Under the dura mater, up to 75 cc was kept. cm, bloody fluid, mild cloudy, red-greenish color. The substance of the brain is a formless mass of greenish-red color with indistinguishable contours of the ventricles of the brain, as well as gray and white matter ... ".
Tumanov:.
With such a transformation of the brain, it is impossible to see edema of the meninges.
The certificate of forensic medical expert of Vozrozhdenniy from March 9, 1959:.
"From the anterior margin of the scales of the left temporal bone ... upwards of the frontal bone segment there is a bone fracture with a divergence of the edges up to 0.1 cm, crack length up to 6 cm. ... Under the dura mater, up to 75 cm3 of bloody fluid was contained.".
Tumanov:.
This trauma was formed as a result of a blow by a solid blunt object or from a blow to the head about such an object.
The certificate of forensic medical expert of Vozrozhdenniy from March 9, 1959:.
"The absence of a pronounced cerebral hemorrhage gives reason to believe that Slobodin's death occurred precisely as a result of his freezing.".
Tumanov:.
This assertion is unreasonable. There was blood under the dura mater. And this gives all grounds to say that Slobodin had a subdural hemorrhage (hemorrhage under the dura mater). According to available data it is impossible to exclude the onset of Slobodin's death as a result of craniocerebral trauma.
The certificate of forensic medical expert of Vozrozhdenniy from March 9, 1959:.
"The back of the nose is straight, on the dorsal side of the nose and in the region of the tip of the nose soft tissue is brownish-red. On the tip of the nose is a section of soft tissues under a dry brown-cherry crust measuring 1.5 x 1 cm. ".
Tumanov:.
Traces of secretions of parched blood formed as a result of a trauma to the nose.
The certificate of forensic medical expert of Vozrozhdenniy from March 9, 1959:.
"... In the region of the metacarpophalangeal joints of the wrists, the deposition of the protruding parts of the soft tissues in the areas of 8 x 1.5 cm, covered with dry parchment density, is lower than the skin level. On the ulnar edge of the left hand, the brown-cherry coloring parchment density of 6 x 2 cm with the transition of sedimentation to the lateral surface of the finger of the left hand. ".
Tumanov:.
These abrasions could be formed as a result of the action of a solid blunt object, as well as the impact of a fist clenched on a solid object.
Now with ZINAIDA KOLMOGOROVA! .
ZINAIDA KOLMOGOROVA (found on the slope of Mount Holatchahl).
The certificate of forensic medical expert of Vozrozhdenniy from March 4, 1959:.
"... In the upper eyelid of the left and right eye, the site of skin firming of dark red color is 5 x 1 cm and 0.5 x 0.5 cm. On the dorsal side of the nose there is a reddish brown reddish brown, 1 x 0.7 cm in size, on the tip of the nose the same abrasion of the parchment density of 2 x 1 cm. In the area of ??the zygomatic arches, cheeks and chin a variety of abrasions of different shapes and sizes under dry brown color crusts from 6 x 2 cm in size to? x 1 cm and less. ... ".
Tumanov:.
Zina could get these bruises when she fell face down on the snow.
The certificate of forensic medical expert of Vozrozhdenniy from March 4, 1959:.
"... On the back of the right and left hand in the area of ??the metacarpophalangeal and interphalangeal joints, bruise-colored abrasions are dense to the touch, ranging in size from 1.5 x 1 cm to 0.3 x 3 cm. In the rear of the right hand, at the base of the third finger, shape, the angle facing the terminal phalanx in dimensions of 3 x 2.2 cm with uneven edges and scalp skin graft .... ".
Tumanov:.
And these injuries the girl received, most likely, from punching on a solid object. When falling on the snow with an emphasis on the fists, there would be other damage.
The certificate of forensic medical expert of Vozrozhdenniy from March 4, 1959:.
"... In the lumbar region of the right lateral surface of the trunk, right side of the abdomen, the skin is set in a bright red color in the form of a strip measuring 29 x 6 cm ...".
Tumanov:.
It was formed as a result of a blow by a solid blunt object, which had an elongated shape (stick, branch of a tree, etc.).
The main sign of death from hypothermia is the presence of the so-called ‘Wischnewsky spots’, described in 1895 by the coroner S.M. Wischnewsky. These spots are found on the gastric mucosa (stomach membrane) in about seventy-five percent of deaths from low temperatures. According to Vozrozhdenniy, all members of the Dyatlov group had Wischnewsky spots. Tumanov questions the possibility of identifying these spots in the last four bodies due to the state of their deep decay; and even for the first five corpses, which were found in a much more preserved condition, it is difficult to give a clear hypothermia diagnosis based on this and other characteristic features of the condition. Tumanov also doubts the possibility of identifying oedema of the brain – one more characteristic of hypothermia. The brain matter in the corpses was ‘a greenish red, jelly-like substance. The grey matter can hardly be distinguished from the white matter. Brain ventricle contours are indistinguishable. The cerebellum matter pattern is poorly distinguished.’ It was improper defrosting that made it impossible to diagnose oedema of the brain. Still Vozrozhdenniy cited it in order to conclude that freezing was the cause of death. He also mentioned cardiac cavities full of liquid dark blood, which cannot qualify as a sign of death from hypothermia because the blood of frozen people is bright red due to high concentrations of oxyhemoglobin. Finally, neither third nor fourth degree frostbite of fingers or toes was observed. Krivonischenko’s report reads ‘terminal phalanx is dry and dark brown in colour’. According to modern experts, these are the signs of post mortem freezing of the body. Five of the group members had facial abrasions. Small abrasions often occur when an exhausted person is crawling in frozen conditions when he or she can injure the skin by rubbing against firm snow or ice. The location of these on the frontal parts of the bodies (faces and hands) excludes possible compression with snow (like in an avalanche). Had this been the case, they would have been observed all over the body evenly. The bodies were not found in the classic foetal position supposedly assumed by a person freezing to death. Doroshenko and Krivonischenko were even found in a pose similar to that of sunbathing on a beach. In fact, the foetal position is found in less than 30% of all cases of death by freezing, and simply suggests that the person still felt cold when he or she died. Dyatlov’s pose is closer to this classical position. Tumanov suggests that Dyatlov was the only one on the slope who really died by hypothermia.
Oss, Svetlana. Don't Go There: Post Mortem (pp. 152-154). LiberWriter.com. Kindle Edition.
Now with Igor Dyatlov! .
IGOR DIATLOV WAS VOMITING THE BLOOD.
IGOR DIATLOV (found on the slope of Mount Holatchahl).
The certificate of forensic medical expert of Vozrozhdenniy from March 4, 1959:.
"... a sharp fullness of the internal organs, an overflow of the dark cavities in the cavities of the heart ...".
Tumanov:.
At the autopsy, Igor Dyatlov's internal organs were in rotting state. Therefore, it is incorrect to assert that the internal organs are full of blood, as their structure is modified by postmortem processes. And the presence of dark blood is not a sign of death from hypothermia, on the contrary, when supercooled, the blood is bright red due to the high content of oxyhemoglobin.
The certificate of forensic medical expert of Vozrozhdenniy from March 4, 1959:.
"... on the upper surface of the folds of the stomach on the mucosa is a large number of small hemorrhages, spots Wischnewsky ...".
Tumanov:.
The expert, Vozrozhdenniy interprets petty-hemorrhage as a spot of Wischnewsky. But at the same time, in the stomach of Dyatlov, "about 100 cubic cm of liquid mucous mass of a brownish reddish color", "the mucous membrane of the stomach is lilac-red, swollen," and "the lips are covered with gore".
Most likely, Dyatlov had vomiting before his death with an admixture of blood. The source of bleeding is the gastric mucosa. What caused such a vomiting - poisoning or abnormality of the stomach - can not be established, since there is no case in the materials of the forensic chemical and histological examination.
The certificate of forensic medical expert of Vozrozhdenniy from March 4, 1959:
"... in the region of the forehead on the frontal tubercles, small abrasions are dark red, in the region of the left superciliary arena a brownish-red abrasion, parchment density rises above the surface of the skin, on the upper eyelids small brown-red abrasions, on the nose and tip of the nose - red color of parchment density, 2 x 1.5 cm in size, in the area of ??both cheekbones, abrasions of reddish-brown color under a dry crust 3 x 1.5 x 1 cm, 3 x 0.5 cm, on the left, and on the right small abrasions . In the region of the left cheek, small abrasions are dark brown in parchment density. In the area of ??the knee joints on the right and on the left, grazes of dark red color, 1 x 0.5 cm in size and 0.5 by 0.5 cm in parchment density without hemorrhage into the underlying tissues ... ".
Tumanov :.
Igor could get these bruises when he fell on the snow.
The certificate of forensic medical expert of Vozrozhdenniy from March 4, 1959:.
"... In the region of the left ankle joint on the anterior lateral and posterior surfaces, in the areas of both ankles bruised-red abrasions are impressed over the surface of the skin, and also at the skin level, measuring 1 x 0.5 cm, up to 3 x 2; 5 cm, with a hemorrhage into the underlying soft tissues. In the area of ??abrasions one cut is visible, in the lower third of the right shin the skin is covered by 4 x 2 cm ... ".
Tumanov:.
But these damage from falling on the snow will not get. They could appear from circular compression in the ankle, for example as a result of binding by a rope.
The certificate of forensic medical expert of Vozrozhdenniy from March 4, 1959:.
"... In the region of the metacarpophalangeal articulations and interphalangeal articulations, soft lacquer-lilac, parchment-dense tissues are covered with dry, crusty crusts with hemorrhage into the underlying tissues. The left brush is a brown-lilac color with brown-red color, parchment density, 1 by 0.5 cm in size, and 2 by 0.2 cm. The skin is in the area of ??the back surface of the 2nd 4th finger ... ".
Tumanov:.
Obviously, shortly before his death, Igor had to hit with a brush, clenched into a fist, over a hard object.
Now with Yuri Krivonishenko!.
Yuri Krivonishenko (found next to Doroshenko).
The certificate of forensic medical expert of Vozrozhdenniy from March 4, 1959:.
"... in the right temporal region and the occipital region a diffuse hemorrhage with impregnation of the right temporal muscle ...".
Tumanov:.
It's strange, but Krivonischenko's craniocerebral trauma is only in the description of the act, and in conclusion about the reasons for his death there is none. But this damage was formed as a result of a blow (or blows) by a solid blunt object (or objects) in the right temporal and occipital areas of the head of Yuri. It can not be ruled out that the trauma could be obtained by falling from the standing position and by hitting the right temporal and occipital areas of the head against a hard blunt object. With such a trauma there could be hemorrhages in the brain, but the disintegration of the brain substance in Krivonishchenko destroyed all the informative signs.
The certificate of forensic medical expert of Vozrozhdenniy from March 4, 1959:.
"... on the middle phalanx of the middle finger (right hand, - Auth.), The epidermal defect in shape and size coincides with that found in the oral cavity ...".
Tumanov:.
Again the same rake. In the description of the act about the bite is written, and in the conclusion about death - not a word. But this one line gives reason to believe that Krivonishenko himself bitten himself by the finger, snatching a piece of leather. What does it mean? Perhaps Yuri tried to restrain the cry with severe pain. Perhaps, it was important that someone at that moment did not hear it.
The certificate of forensic medical expert of Vozrozhdenniy from March 4, 1959:.
"... On the inner surface of the upper third of the left thigh, there are three dermal wounds of a linear shape with even margins as deep as 0.3 cm with sharp angles of 1.5 to 0.4 cm ...".
Tumanov:.
I can assume that these "wounds" - cuts - were formed from a sharp object. Knife, glass, blade - anything.
The certificate of forensic medical expert of Vozrozhdenniy from March 4, 1959:.
"... In the middle part of the forehead, a section of a 0.3-by-0.3 cm round-shaped precipitation is of a brownish-red color of parchment density. ... In the left temporal region, two abrasions of a brownish-red color of parchment density, a size of 1.2 to 0.3 cm and 1 cm to 0.2 cm ... ".
Tumanov:.
It is doubtful that these abrasions were formed when the person fell face down on the snow. Then the nose and the superciliary arches would be buried, and there would be more scratches on the forehead. These abrasions of Krivonischenko from blows with a solid blunt object (or hitting against similar objects) at an acute angle.
The certificate of forensic medical expert of Vozrozhdenniy from March 4, 1959:.
"Burns of the left thigh and shin 2-3 degrees (near the fire)".
Tumanov:.
Suppose, second-degree burns can be obtained by negligence, falling asleep at the fire. But third-degree burns are charring (!) Of soft tissues. To achieve this effect, you need to keep your feet in the fire for a long time. Get in a dream such a burn is impossible, burns already 1-st degree cause severe pain and awakening. In this case, third-degree burns could be formed if a person was in deep depression, for example, into intoxication (he did not feel pain or could not pull his leg off, - Auth.) Next to a strong fire.
The certificate of forensic medical expert of Vozrozhdenniy from March 4, 1959:.
"... In the middle third of the nose a brown-red abrasion, parchment density, passing into the wound in the tip of the nose and wings with a defect of soft tissues measuring 1.8 x 2 cm, the bottom of the wound is the cartilage of the nasal septum, right nasal passage ...".
Tumanov:.
Wounds on the nose are caused by animals and after the death of Yuri. Otherwise, there would be traces of bleeding.
Lets start with Yuri Doroshenko!
It is impossible to confirm that two people were frozen at the bonfire
YURI DOROSHENKO (found under the cedar near the remains of the fire)
The certificate of forensic medical expert of Vozrozhdenniy from March 4, 1959:
"... Doroshenko's death came as a result of exposure to low temperature, ... as evidenced by edema of the meninges, a sharp plethora of internal organs, a dark liquid overflowing the heart cavities, the presence of Wischnewsky spots on the stomach mucosa, bladder overflow, frostbite of the limbs and burn II - III degrees around the fire. " .
Tumanov: .
Given the putrefaction of the corpse, it is highly doubtful that a forensic expert could see all of the above signs at the autopsy. Thus, Vozrozhdenniy, in support of the diagnosis, writes - "... as evidenced by the swelling of the meninges ..." at the same time, at the autopsy reports - "... The substance of the brain is a mass of a jelly-like reddish-green color. Gray matter of the brain is hardly distinguishable from white matter. The contours of the lateral ventricles of the brain are hardly distinguishable ... ".
With such a transformation of the brain, it is impossible to see the swelling of the meninges! .
The presence of dark blood is not a sign of death from hypothermia, on the contrary, when supercooled, the blood is bright red due to the high content of oxyhemoglobin.
The resulted statement about a frostbite of fingers of extremities is not proved. There is nothing about this in the text of the study.
These circumstances (see General Comment, point 3) allow us to say that Doroshenko's death came as a result of hypothermia, only in a hypothetical form.
(That's the part I must of missed. Maybe you haven't got to it yet.)
Lol, hey don't knock it, like you say, a lot of unsolved murders could be solved!
Nigel's got Roller BL...
I call Cyberknife BL! ...That covers the Ripper and Black Dahlia mysteries!!!
"he convinced me that no such facilities were nearby and no possibility of missile launches." .
Nothing to see here.... move along now (pat on the head).
"But, there was one instance that put us on the alert. When the last bodies were found later in May, an order came to collect all items found at the pass and send them for radiological examination".
The first bodies showed us something your not allowed to know about which is why Im ordering you to test for radiation.
"Also, all people who had been in contact with the things found in the tent and nearby were ordered to undergo body counting."
While your at it... test all these ground peasants that were at the tent and touched crap also.
" So it was done, but neither a reassuring, nor any other results were made known to us. And again, the fact of some secret military tests being held was coming to mind." .
This is way above your paygrade... go look for some fireballs or something.
"We applied with a letter signed by the Oblast Prosecutor to either the Prosecutor General of the USSR or the Federal – I don’t remember exactly now – asking to explain what really we were investigating into? And how it was related to radiation? Could it be so that even the top commandant of the Urals Military District knew nothing of any tests of armaments held there? In response to our letter, Deputy Prosecutor General, comrade Urakov came to meet with us and gave orders that we were to all tell anyone who asked that the hikers’ death was an accident".
Listen up peasant... Not only am I NOT going to answer your question, but I came all the way down here to personally tell you to shut your big fat mouth about radiation and tell everyone it was an "accident".
"Urakov evaded all our direct questions about tests of armaments. I mean, he did not deny this version, but simply avoided direct answers." .
Pft.... this is on a need to know basis and your not in the loop.
"What’s more, Urakov took absolutely no interest in the course of our investigation, as if the picture of the scene was absolutely clear to him already. He, however, took the case away with him." .
We know something that you dont, so we are yanking the rug out from under you.
"With that, our investigation came to an end. Just imagine: at the very height of the investigation, when dead bodies with strange injuries have just been found, the case is being taken away!" .
CLEAR EVIDENCE OF A COVERUP
"And I clearly remember when we were signing our letter in the office of Oblast Prosecutor Klinov, he himself asked in doubt whether we had omitted something and had not fully checked one or the other evidence? We told him that if the top officials discard the military incident version, then all is left to us is to consider other possible versions. He found our considerations convincing, and signed the letter. But, again, the reaction from Moscow was such that our suppositions of a military involvement had been neither confirmed nor disproved..." .
You go look for leprechauns and unicorns little boy, you are done here.
Be my guest.
@Lightning - aren't there youtube videos of stuff like this? People filming their path?
What facts does it address that you couldn't take the BL out and replace with almost anything ?
What fact wrt the DPI does the BL theory not address? And what's this agenda i have?
You see things ass backwards imho.
"The BL theory is a first class fit for the facts"
No Nigel, it is not.. it fits only false facts you have construed to push an agenda.
- well i'm burdened with trying to find a theory to fit the facts.
That's the part I must of missed.
The ravine is only nine feet deep.
Oss, Svetlana. Don't Go There: Post Mortem (p. 120). LiberWriter.com. Kindle Edition.
I think that picture of the den is the depth of the ravine. Doesn't rule out an overhang/wind slab though.
@Lyndasez - best of luck.
The same with the least amount of wild assumptions!
http://image.ibb.co/n7ai9Q/0_91aae_9e660b2c_XL.jpg
Then you are a glutton for punishment ...
Your theory has too many outlandish assumptions.
BL without leaving traces...
Special KGB cameras
Terrified experienced hikers who flee an extraordinary occurrence, yet, ordinary locals don't put their lives in jeopardy
A triage set up in the ravine
SZ taking notes in the throes of death
Explosions that have an impact on people yet leaves the area untouched
KGB film left at scene and disseminated
The hikers maps were approved
They deliberately went where the coordinates of BL were noted
There's no coverup
I'll think of more...that'll do for now
http://image.ibb.co/gRQGUQ/2716627.jpg
It was a portion of this:
(Inspection report of the scene
Sheet 3
Inspection report
Places of Incident February 27, 1959)
Which I used to tell Nigel, the Russian info is not to be trusted....because one thing says this and another negates it...that all.
This was not part of the official autopsy or any other file in which a determination was established.
Nigel is misbehaving, for fun!
That was my initial point...
Incorrect again. The only person conducting themselves with misinformation propaganda to fit a narrative is..... you.
A negative with sprocket holes is a negative with sprocket holes. Your holy grail pictures are scans of negatives, and the light areas would have been dark areas when developed.
This isn't freaking rocket science..... There are no mysterious pictures of fireballs of light. Fact
The whole index finger is obscured in that photo as well...
LC,
Nigel is having fun with you... :c)
Left.. left... left.
Its redundant anyhow and I likely shouldnt have posted it. The statement came from a university search party individual as he recalled the cedar scene.
Did you post the right pic? Because the index finger if it's there, is hidden by his hair??
http://image.ibb.co/b4h4W5/krivonishenko_07_02.jpg
@Nigel- "you're assuming SZ's camera was standard, the negs you're showing aren't from his camera." .
Your assuming that SZs camera was NOT standard. Then what camera were they from??
They are masters at disinformation & coverup. For example: LC says: a finger is ripped off. You say: not true!
Well your both right according to offical docs, autopsy doesn't say so. However inspection at the scene does!
Sheet 4.
Identified: Krivonischenko Yuri
"The skin on the back of the left palm is torn off{{.Between the fingers is blood. The index finger is ripped off. }}The skin on the lower leg of the left leg was torn off, blood came out. There are no other injuries during the external examination. Next to him with Krivonischenko, is the corpse of Zolotarev? (from above it is written in parentheses: "mistake"
It's weirder than an accident?
@LC - you're assuming SZ's camera was standard, the negs you're showing aren't from his camera.
Cant rule it out!
In my opinion though, Its more likely that information and files within 1 case simply went poof which makes everyone observing it in totality missing several key ingredients.
http://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Zolotaryov-camera-02.jpg
Original 35mm Negs
http://image.ibb.co/fmYmB5/19_4.jpg
Both inverted as it were to be when developed.
http://image.ibb.co/grpF4Q/1_5.jpg
Note... The holes are opposite colors simply because the trips held to the window and were backlighted with white light. The other was scanned which attributes a black background to this area.
"EO thinks the deaths are connected with rocket testing."
Could be!
At a certain elevation rocket boosters fall away from main body of the craft and fall to earth, where? who knows but a cleanup crew picks it up.
Could be, maybe, prehaps, maybe not. The only thing this clears up for me is the fact a major cover-up took place. Something embarrassing to the Kremlin.
It goes on to say that a further site inspection once the snows had melted as abandoned because they couldn't get a permit... Central office refusing the criminal investigation team further access to the site. Central party figures present at the five autopsies was highly unusual.
Central office basically closed the case and instructed EO and Ivanov to state it was an accident and "rig" the report to fit that. EO states how good Ivanov was as an investigator describing him as meticulous and very thorough. He says they found it quite stressfull dealing with the parents who wanted answers but they had to follow orders.
Missing documentation is noted, all the personel on the case would be assigned via official orders but this is missing.
EO thinks the deaths are connected with rocket testing.
Yeah, lol, okay! ;c)
Anyway Semyon's camera could be a special KGB camera, who knows what it could do
Gives me the confidence to go on in my lonely struggle for truth and wisdom.
@KMM - i'm still waiting for the next theory to complement the two heard so far... Wind and then flapping tent, how do you come up with this stuff? Unrecognised genius? Possibly going to stay that way...
@IVANOV - i don't have that many roubles in my piggy bank. How about 2 Euros and a copy of Kylie Minogues, "I can't get you out of my head" and a piece of chewing gum?
Omg...lol, let the guy come up for air!!!
He's a good sport------> "@IVANOV - hi there i could use some help with this motley crew."
Caught me a fireball the other night with my cellphone! 8^O .
Have you got stopped running yet ? :-P
http://image.ibb.co/k8gKyk/IMG_20170905_205657246.jpg
see those sprocket holes? That thar is a negative. This means Nigels white orb is a black shit stain when developed.
Think they'd say photo or contact if this were true, not negative.
The black dots could be light, hard to say they're clearly examining a compromised negative. They're playin you....we're lookin for black orbs on a negative.
"Doesn't matter, anyway, unless we're looking at "developed film," you're looking at a reverse image (negative)." .
Bingo.... Nigels black orbs have no light. lol
I'm sure he will say "DARK BL", related to dark matter. :-)
Bingo.... Nigels black orbs have no light. lol
"It is claimed that under a microscope they can be seen to be exposures."
Yes, the film was over exposed due to the elements, meaning it's garbage. Same would happen if you took photos with a roll of film then unraveled the film in a lit area or swished it in water. Those exposures you took are now toast!
It is claimed that under a microscope they can be seen to be exposures.
Yeah, sorry, but he's pissin in the wind with this BL theory. First he says it "hit the den area vaporizing snow with heat stronger than the sun," but left a twig seat intact, there's no massive amounts of solid ice, snapped trees, or burnt victims!?..
Now it's accounts of people seeing lights --one so close he thought planets were colliding, but these kids defied death to run from it an stay away...?!
I don't think the crews of any of the sailing ship accounts jumped overboard and swam for the open ocean either>
Alex would've wanted his pic taken beside BL, and the rest would be fighting over who saw it first!
Hell, those folks in the story Nigel posted didn't jump out windows! However, there was a boat load of destruction in its path, which Nigel hasn't accounted in his DPI theory!
@KMM - three eye witness accounts in two months (from memory) including the investigation team onsite and the ski group said their's was over Mt Otorten. Not sure about the meteorologist.
Doesn't matter what the zoom is to me, it's what's there after it's zoomed.
So, you have no evidence of what happened to DP group. Just some hearsay stuff about lights seen in sky elsewhere !
I hate to be the one that reminds you of this, but other photos shown as SZs are now debunked. They are negatives which is evident by the film gear slots and thus.... Your little blotches at 30x magnification are would actually be black spots if developed. To add insult to injury, they have been proven to reside outside of the viewable rectangle area where the pictures exposure takes place.
Its ALL bs..... Not just the three amigos.
Doesn't matter what the zoom is to me, it's what's there after it's zoomed.
50km away and how else are they going to witness a light in the sky other than being some distance from it?
Except on a mountain top?..
So their just a witness to a light in the sky, NOT, I repeat, NOT a witness to anything to do with the DP group !
No, the theory that SZ had a secret camera and the three heads was an original non processed photo got shot down (by my investigation and no one elses ....).
But the evidence remains, photos of lights from three cameras. Semyon took a lot of shots, say 10 which at 30x zoom show distinct similarities to eye witness reports. But granted the photographic evidence is not conclusive and open to interpretation.
Not so the eye witness reports.
"A person saying they saw a light in the sky 50 miles away is NOT an eye witness ! "
50km away and how else are they going to witness a light in the sky other than being some distance from it?
Except on a mountain top?....
@KMM - "see, its not that hard "
that's far worse than the first attempt. I'm sensing desperation.
The thing is nigel you have NO actual evidence !
your BL photo got shot down
A person saying they saw a light in the sky 50 miles away is NOT an eye witness !
By the entrance was a furnace; baskets; water flasks, one of which was filled with alcohol; a saw; and an axe.Deeper inside were the cameras. Further back was a bag with maps and documents, Dyatlov’s camera, a can containing money, Kolmogorova’s diary and windbreakers belonging to Dyatlov and Kolevatov. In the corner was a bag of rusks and another bag containing breakfast cereal. Next to them was a pair of boots. The other six pairs of boots were at the opposite side of the tent. In the middle of the tent were three pairs of valenki and one single one. Next to the rusks there was a log taken from the place of the previous camp. Above all, there was a ski pole, scored at several places.
Oss, Svetlana. Don't Go There: Post Mortem (pp. 50-51). LiberWriter.com. Kindle Edition.
Oss, Svetlana. Don't Go There: Post Mortem (p. 122). LiberWriter.com. Kindle Edition.
I would imagine that a well regarded professional and university star of the program on the most important trip of his life to obtain the ultimate goal of level 3........ might have boots that fit.
From above?
@KMM - "see, its not that hard "
that's far worse than the first attempt. I'm sensing desperation..
@LC - bruised ankles
maybe his ski boots didn't fit that well.
@IVANOV - hi there i could use some help with this motley crew.
From above?
NOTE: Back and front of both ankles bruised with abrasions and hemorrhaging. Was he dragged or something? Strung upside down? Was he bound at the ankles and relocated? Was his hands bound aswell? His frozen position is strange to me at best.
Yeah,I have seen reports they were roped/used a rope all the way down the slope. Didnt know if it was definite enough to argue
D - E - A - D as in dead. Move along now, nothing to see here! Where's me Ivanov vodka?
Oh looky, a squirrel...
@KMM,
Have you read Nigel's theory?
Cedar guys were stuck by lightning...
BL creates hot spot (crusted ice) near tent ...but he neglects to explain how these microwaves didn't melt its path or its burst didn't snap and scorch trees.
I've read ALL his comments like he "instructed" me to do right off the bat !!
Good catch! These bone-heads are covering something up. Thanks again for that hibinaud link cleared up a bunch for me!
March 4, 1959 The autopsy is done and signed. Within the text states... "On the night of February 2, under unclear circumstances, all 9 people died"
They determined the rav4 dead very early when they could have very well been alive for all they knew as the bodies had not been found.
Basically shithead Ivanov at the time 2yuris, Igor, Rustem, and Zina were just found... declared the rav4 dead. Nigel will tell you its perfectly acceptable, but in reality it shows his utter neglection of duty and pure incompetence.
We take a look at the body if Igor Dyatlov. Why might you ask?? Because its small potatoes!!! .
"STUDIES OF THE CITIZEN DYATLOV Igor Alekseevich, 23 years old on March 4, 1959".
"The cuffs are buttoned. In a breast pocket there was a packing "streptotsid" with 4 tablets".
Note: Hmmmmm Guess he has a habit of carrying this around in case of emergencies?
"in the forehead area on the frontal tubercles, small abrasions of a dark red color".
NOTE: Abrasion on the forehead. You can see the severity of the 'small' abrasion below. Looks to me like a half dollar size of his scalp is pealed back! Unless.... they are talking about other abrasions of the forehead, which would make this pictured wound UNDOCUMENTED! http://image.ibb.co/c9ONzQ/PkTFfHW2.jpg
"in the region of the left brow, a brown-red abrasion, parchment density rises above the surface of the skin"
NOTE: Abrasion left eyebrow, skin of affected area is swollen, or its an open cut with raised edges. You decide.
"small brown abrasions on the upper eyelids".
NOTE: Self explanatory.
"on the dorsum of the nose and the tip of the site of the brownish-red color amentnoy density, dimensions 2 x 1.5 cm in both chines abrasion brown-red color under dry crust 3 x 1.5 x 1 cm, 3 x 0.5 cm, -.. the left and right small abrasions".
NOTES: I dunno but it sounds like several abrasions of the nose.
"Lips of cyanotic-lilac color, covered with gore".
NOTE: Blood, pus, spit.... gore! .
"On the upper jaw teeth white, smooth, rare, on the lower jaw there is no central incisor without a change in the mucous gum"
NOTE: From what I understand, he was already missing this tooth. However, this reads as if the gum has not 'changed', or possibly 'recovered'. Knocked out tooth or prior extraction... You decide.
"In the area of ??the knee joints on the right and on the left, grazes of dark red color, measuring 1 x 0.5 cm. 0.5 to 0.5 cm of parchment density without hemorrhage into the underlying tissues".
NOTE: I would kinda expect these crawling around and whatnot.
"In the region of the left ankle sushutava on the anterior lateral and posterior surfaces, in areas of both ankles bruise-red abrasions, colors pressed over the surface of the skin, as well as on ???? skin, size 1 x 0.5 cm, up to 3 x 2, 5 cm, with a hemorrhage into the underlying soft tissue. "
NOTE: Back and front of both ankles bruised with abrasions and hemorrhaging. Was he dragged or something? Strung upside down? Was he bound at the ankles and relocated? Was his hands bound aswell? His frozen position is strange to me at best.
http://image.ibb.co/dXT865/dyatloff_igor.jpg .
The murder theorist are going to rake Nigel over the coals with this on imo.
"on the outer side in the lower third of the right forearm, on the palmar surface, small abrasions of dark red color of parchment density".
Note: Outside of the right forearm abrasions.
"The rear of the right hand is lilac-gray in color. In the region of the metacarpophalangeal articulations and between the phalangeal joints, soft lacquer-lilac, parchment-dense tissues are covered with dry, crusty crusts with hemorrhage into the underlying tissues".
Note: Right back of hand is discolored, and the metacarpophalangeal articulations (knuckle joints) are dry and crusty with bleeding into the underlying tissue of the hand. These are the knuckles closest to the body of the hand...... the ones effected when punching something, or someone.
"In the region of the palmar surface of the 2nd 5th finger, the cutaneous wound of an irregularly linear shape with even edges located transversely to the long finger of the fingers, wounds of a surface depth of 0.1 (or 0.2 - approx.) See Bones and cartilages of the skeleton at feeling whole".
NOTE: Somewhere on the left hand middle AND ring finger cutaneous (of the skin) wound /wounds that are literally busted open down to the bone.
Hey, what was up with that previous post about proceedings?...what didn't I see??
"Sorry if this is off-topic, but does anyone else see what Im seeing here"
Have you read Nigel's theory?
Cedar guys were stuck by lightning...
BL creates hot spot (crusted ice) near tent ...but he neglects to explain how these microwaves didn't melt its path or its burst didn't snap and scorch trees.
see, its not that hard
@KMM - "I don't see it ! I could craft several theories to fit, none containing BL. How about a freakish strong wind lasting a few hours. "
and you'd leave the tent half dressed? Maybe the next of your several theories will be better.
You need to remember you are arguing BL !!!!
8-)
"it all depends on the direction of the force?"
Well don't hold back, where was the direction of force, we'd know from collateral damage....where and what would that be???
Question is ...why'd Thibi n SZ have boots? You don't suit up to take a pee. And if you're going with SZ was there to film it, he'd have calmed the situation, he knew panicking an running out half dressed was deadly.
If so, its a long long looooong way to hit rock bottom.
Hey,.. is there a boulder filled ravine at the bottom? That would be great. thanks. ROFLMAO
it all depends on the direction of the force?
and you'd leave the tent half dressed? Maybe the next of your several theories will be better....
"They leave the tent in their socks. No felt boots or gloves."
Had you read my post about the victims....
Thibi had felt boots.
SZ was maxed out, he had quilted burki.
"Men wore a special kind of valenki called burki. The bottom looked like leather boots, but upper part was made of white felt, framed with dark leather strips to protect from moisture and to contrast white felt. In Soviet times burki were worn by military officers, and heads of collective farms."
Hence, no 9th track, the warm barefeet left tracks (ice crust) till they cooled...
They walk to the cedar with no sign of any other tracks, leaving a flashlight at a position suggesting a beacon to assist the return.
They light a fire at the cedar, seemingly unable to return to the tent and make use of a den 70m away. (the den was found because of a trail of branch fragments used to construct the seats leading into the ravine snow, so they did use it even if they didn't construct it).
Pathologist talks of ravine injuries requiring superhuman force suggesting energy similar to a car accident or a bomb.
I don't see it ! I could craft several theories to fit, none containing BL. How about a freakish strong wind lasting a few hours.
Your last post is precisely what I am talking about.
"They walk to the cedar with no sign of any other tracks, leaving a flashlight at a position suggesting a beacon to assist the return." .
#1IIRC there wasn't any footprints to count or tracks in the treeline and into the ravine to observe, so in reality there could have been 300 people walking around down there and nobody would have ever known it.
#2 Could have been a potty light also. WE DONT KNOW
"They light a fire at the cedar, seemingly unable to return to the tent and make use of a den 70m away. (the den was found because of a trail of branch fragments used to construct the seats"
#1 Its a long ways back up there to a destroyed tent, or was it destroyed? WE DONT KNOW
#2 Bingo... They did NOT find the den (if there was a den) because of foot tracks. how many people were in the treeline/ravine? WE DONT KNOW
"Injuries ambiguous or otherwise, slits internal or external etc etc are small potatoes compared to what caused the above."
#1 When you dont know what the above answers are (you may think you do, but you dont)... better start looking at smaller potatoes!
#2 I wouldnt expect you to look for indications of not BL probabilities.... your not going to change now. #
#3 Imagine that.... someone you know found dead. Would you expect all the potatoes to be looked at especially their physical injuries? Unbelievable
"Of course the BL theory knocks these questions down like skittles."
Incorrect sir as your questions are bias and relatively invalid to begin with. This is exactly the arrogance I speak of, and the narrow mindedness that gets all of us no where.
"My problem with your thinking is that you're ignoring the big questions and trying reverse engineer a solution by proving that the injury profile shows human violence when an experienced policemen didn't see that. It's your mission to find a non BL solution at all costs, i'm just sitting at the top of the hill enjoying the view and throwing rocks at you, no offence :@)"
#1 laff... Nigel, Cmon man..... Your mad because Its to show all readers your unwillingness to accept critical information and otherwise attempt to discard it because it is non conforming to your narrative.
#2 Fighting within themselves in of itself does not eradicate your BL theory. How do you know a fight didnt ensue after having been forced to the treeline by a fireball? Why would that make/break your theory?
Nigel... I like ya man (some times), but you have got to get that head out of the anus asap.
"Sorry if this is off-topic, but does anyone else see what Im seeing here"
What's goin on, what am not seeing?
Pathologist talks of ravine injuries requiring superhuman force suggesting energy similar to a car accident or a bomb."
Umm, the docs say 8 followed a trail to ravine, two branched off, (direction of cedar?) where's the 9th?
The den couch, they all put scraps of clothes down in all 4 corners for seats as in pic and don't burn the darn seat for warmth, come on...that seat would've been blown to oblivion, if Rollin BL threw 4 people everywhere!
It doesn't. It's just that there isn't anything else that comes close. Lets trot through the key points yet again.
They leave the tent in their socks. No felt boots or gloves.
They walk to the cedar with no sign of any other tracks, leaving a flashlight at a position suggesting a beacon to assist the return.
They light a fire at the cedar, seemingly unable to return to the tent and make use of a den 70m away. (the den was found because of a trail of branch fragments used to construct the seats leading into the ravine snow, so they did use it even if they didn't construct it).
Pathologist talks of ravine injuries requiring superhuman force suggesting energy similar to a car accident or a bomb.
So those four lines are the BIG issues to solve. Injuries ambiguous or otherwise, slits internal or external etc etc are small potatoes compared to what caused the above.
That's the problem to be solved. Of course the BL theory knocks these questions down like skittles. Then there's the supporting info, eye witness accounts and photographs from three cameras (granted there's room for interpretation) of light phenomena. Ok burnt trees and dead birds are just curiosities.
My problem with your thinking is that you're ignoring the big questions and trying reverse engineer a solution by proving that the injury profile shows human violence when an experienced policemen didn't see that. It's your mission to find a non BL solution at all costs, i'm just sitting at the top of the hill enjoying the view and throwing rocks at you, no offence :@)
This is Igors... all structured the same.
"STUDIES OF THE CITIZEN
DYATLOV Igor Alekseevich, 23 years old
March 4, 1959, according to the decision of the Prosecutor's Office of the Sverdlovsk region of March 3, 1959 forensic experts of the Regional Bureau of Forensic Medical Examination of the Sverdlovsk Region VOZROZHDENNIY V.A. and Laptev Yu.I. in the presence of the Public Prosecutor of the Sverdlovsk Region, the State Counselor of Justice of the third class, Klinov NI, prosecutor of the criminal prosecutor of the regional prosecutor's office of the Junior Adviser of Justice IVANOV L.N. and witnessed tov. GORDO S.D. and NASKICHEV K.V. in the premise of the morgue of the central hospital of the office box No. 240 in daylight and sunny weather, a study of the corpse of a citizen DYATLOV IA was made. 23 years, to determine the cause of death and to answer the questions indicated in the resolution.
The circumstances of the case
On January 23, 1959, an amateur group of hikers consisting of 10 people went to a ski resort along the route Ivdel - Mount Oorten. From the site of the 2 nd Northern in the ski trip went 9 people. On February 1, 1959, the group began the ascent to Mount Oorten and in the evening broke the tent near the height of 1079.
On the night of February 2, under unclear circumstances, all 9 people died."
(" relevant to burns (possibly) and mechanical force (like a car accident)."
No, sorry, doesn't fit your narrative.
If BL followed them down a hill where's the sliding pond ice crust from micowaves, where's the crater, where it burst!!..
And if you're going with the aerial rubbish, where's the snapped, scorched trees?!
All had "bath skin"
Don't see any burns to any of these victims!
Thibi had a jacket, pants, socks, felt boots, and a fracture at the base of his skull
SZ had fur hat, jacket, sweaters, black quilted Burki=boots, socks, scarf, overalls, coveralls which continued folded newspaper, ski pants with more bits of newspaper, compressed nose, compressed chest on one side. <--- he was prepared!
I'm not buying this triage set up by Igor, if he was so smart everyone would've been together, an they'd had fashioned torches, if this occurred in the dead of night, not buying this....by the light of the silvery ball lighting thing...
Dont worry KMM, he pulled the same "if you bothered to read my 857 posts, you would know Im right" BS with me also.
@Nigel.
"you wouldn't look foolish"
I sure dont think kmm looks foolish, and when you start talking like your superior to everyone... it kinda turns people away from the BL theory even more then already stated. I wish you would have taken my advice and keep it simple. Something like... 'BL may possible be the reason why they left the tent and didnt return. BL might have been why they climbed the tree. It also may have come down the slope and injured some and killed others bla bla'....
But when you start talking about all this crap which has zero basis in fact as if it were indeed fact, and then expect other folks to explain their theory/idea to fit 'your' unsubstantiated 'facts', and then insult them...... it irritates the shit outta people and only degrades the quality of discussion. Lord knows I can go full-retard, but I do not get there on my own (like john). I wish it were as easy to point to x,y, and z as definitive proof, but when you start trying to force others to believe in burnt tree tops, hot-spots, secret KGB BL photo mission, james Bond camera, specs of crap out of frame with a 300X zoom, three heads BS thats actually part a zoomed part of another know exposure entirely...... on and on and on.... with no real tangible resources to verify them... It gets old man. just sayin.
Even if the injuries I have been listing are 1% accurate. There is more to this story that you are simply not willing to even entertain. Thats fine, we have all heard you clearly state your position, but what we dont need is to be bullied or otherwise intimidated and ridiculed for thinking drastically different then you. Whos right? Probably nobody and/or it may be (as I stated before) a combination of unfortunate events.
Side note:
You know Nigel, having a rav4 not be killed via an explosion of a fireball does not diminish your theory, it only makes it more basic and simple. You shouldn't have to construct a way in which said BL kills absolutely all of them. You should be willing to accept some or all died as a result of other means other then BL, while at the same time tow the line for the BL being the root cause of the situation i.e. forced away from tent. The 2Yuris being burned by the fire and not BL, same deal.
Like others, I am not married to any particlular theory, so I have no dog in the fight. I only wish you would accept other possibilities and how they may play a roll in how they died. If a BL scared them off the ridge, and then several other circumstances ultimately contribute to their passing.... whats wrong with that? Why does this 'have' to be ALL BL or nothing for you? Help me to understand this reasoning.
@KMM - "I guess he forgot to redistribute himself a pair of shoes to make his journey back to the tent ? 8-)"
Maybe he had big feet? As said before he could have been suffering from hypothermia and getting confused.
"as said before (many times)" said by YOU ! That DOES NOT make it true !"
Yes but if you followed things better i wouldn't have to repeat myself so much and you wouldn't look foolish criticising a theory you haven't bothered to follow...
"You ever hear of huddling to sharing body heat? Common practice when 2 or more are trying to stay warm. "
I think Nicolai was dead? Could have been used as a windbreak...
BUt you are the one claiming to HAVE all THE ANSWERS
Maybe he had big feet? As said before he could have been suffering from hypothermia and getting confused.
"as said before (many times)" said by YOU ! That DOES NOT make it true !"
Yes but if you followed things better i wouldn't have to repeat myself so much and you wouldn't look foolish criticising a theory you haven't bothered to follow...
"You ever hear of huddling to sharing body heat? Common practice when 2 or more are trying to stay warm. "
I think Nicolai was dead? Could have been used as a windbreak...
I guess he forgot to redistribute himself a pair of shoes to make his journey back to the tent ? 8-)
@KMM - as said before (many times) the rav4 were nursed by Igor (having sent Zina back to the tent with Rustem) who redistributed clothing from the dead to the living
"as said before (many times)" said by YOU ! That DOES NOT make it true !
You ever hear of huddling to sharing body heat? Common practice when 2 or more are trying to stay warm.
"Isn't sulphur smell associated with BL occurrences?"
Certainly with some, i doubt for all.
"She slid in a kneeling position, arms rested on ledge? Seriously, she'd have gone over if the current were strong in same position as men an carried away! "
All depends how she slid. Or if she was disturbed by the digging above. The 3 men where found lying next to each other like man and err wife. Doubtful they died like that.
@KMM,
Excellent observation, however, Nigel will say SZ lingered longer than others, took off Luddys hat an coat whilst she lie beside him in a kneeling position in the ravine...!?
I'm sure he will. Maybe he needs to look at SZ's injuries
Excellent observation, however, Nigel will say SZ lingered longer than others, took off Luddys hat an coat whilst she lie beside him in a kneeling position in the ravine...!?
If you posted this story as an example, it should have something to liken or compare to your narrative, Roller BL I presume. I find nothing.
[MALVERN HILLS TRAGEDY
"The rolling fireball rushed into the building through the doorway and struck the stone table, which was instantly shattered into fragments. It then passed straight across the room and exited through the window, tearing out the frame and surrounding stonework. In its passage, the rampaging fireball also smashed apart many of the large stones that comprised the walls."]
Isn't sulphur smell associated with BL occurrences?
("was the spring thaw (May) and the flow of water was strong and creating an airspace above the bodies (which can be seen in the photo). So it's very likely that the rav4 were pushed along the stream a little and Luda over the rock. She slid there imo."
She slid in a kneeling position, arms rested on ledge? Seriously, she'd have gone over if the current were strong in same position as men an carried away!
That 'was' the investigation. Lol it was concluded right there on the autopsy table. Post mortem.
Another note. The den3 with injuries during life... The injuries reflect exactly how they were found on the rocks. I do not believe the snow pushed them much if any. Just looking at LD slumped over the rock does not seem to be a natural way to 'wash' over a rock, especially with both arms up and over. Her ribs were broken on both sides in the FRONT exactly how she was found. Nikolai and SZ were found... On rocks... In the creek... laying on their right side....Both having broken bones on the right side of the body.
If there was a collapse or shift of a snow bank... It likely threw them to the ground right where they stood and the impact against the rocks caused the injuries.
Or, thats where they were murdered and or tossed. Depending on the theory you subscribe to. Either way, I believe it was the bodies being thrown/pressed against the rocks that broke the bones, and you do NOT need a fireball to shift or collapse a wall of snow. Especially 'if' they just dug a large chunk of it out for a 'den'. OR the den was staged.... We know it was 'reconstructed?'.
Don't know, two people got burns which could be the fire of course.
The theory is the rav4 (and perhaps Rustem) got an aerial blast within the ravine or the BL exploded within the snowbank that held the den.
"Ummm, she was pressed against it when found, now she was either thrown with the rest, slipped down there on her knees or fell an tried to reach others. But, anyway you slice its there's a ledge/wall there, no doubt. She and 3 others are on 2 different levels."
It was the spring thaw (May) and the flow of water was strong and creating an airspace above the bodies (which can be seen in the photo). So it's very likely that the rav4 were pushed along the stream a little and Luda over the rock. She slid there imo.
I neglected to add...
"An examination of the dead bodies, and the severe injuries to Joannah, revealed that all three had suffered burns to the face, neck, and breast, and that the hair on their heads was intact on one side while burnt off on the other. The clothes of each girl were also partly destroyed."
There's no injuries like the above on the RAV4. Where did this BL impact, it just spontaneously combusted, where?
Ummm, she was pressed against it when found, now she was either thrown with the rest, slipped down there on her knees or fell an tried to reach others. But, anyway you slice its there's a ledge/wall there, no doubt. She and 3 others are on 2 different levels.
http://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/Lyudmila-Dubinina-post-mortem-1.jpg
For some reason I doubt they obtained these injuries while skiing down hill face first with a closed fist like superman.
Something forced the hikers flee in their socks and crucially STAY AWAY from the tent for some time, so different behaviour. I just posted it because LC is filling up the pages with autopsy reports. Although rollers could be relevant to the undocumented rumour (afaik) that the investigation team experienced them later on.
"If your claim is BL is respnsible for the RAV4..how did it involve Alex, he died of exposure"
Fair point, but he had a wound at the back of head (autopsy says post mortem) and a deformed neck (not investigated!) so just guessing that he was unconcious and died of cold.
"and Luddy it's explained, she fell or ran into a ledge. "
Based on the forensic examination of the corpse of Ms. L.A. Dubinina I think that the death of Ms. Dubinina was caused by massive haemorrhage into the right ventricle, multiple bilateral rib fractures, and internal bleeding into the thoracic cavity.
Oss, Svetlana. Don't Go There: Post Mortem (p. 215). LiberWriter.com. Kindle Edition.
Luda got the whole package, may she rest in peace. I think the ledge is just some theorising, they can't know that.
" The former students were there to get their level 3.... Just like SZ. They all were"
Thank you, Just saw they weren't paid for that time an wondered. Trying to figure why Dyatlov didn't file the last of his paperwork=the route map, seems they had to put it together from memory.
@Loose-Cannon - "There is never going to be anything conclusive in this case... Only probable."
Agreed, but it's fun to chew over and make the case for your favourite theory, having someone to contest it with sharpens the thinking and improves the result. Since we've been arguing i've learnt a lot about the DPI and assumed facts.
"FYI... Its completely unnatural to fall with a closed fist, just like it is to lay down on a hill with your feet towards the summit."
When i broke my leg skiing i was going fast enough to be flying through the air and on landing found myself skiing downhill with a broken tibia. This gives one a problem, how to stop travelling downhill on one good leg.. So i took the biggest swallow dive ever (not easy on 1.95m skis off one leg on these - https://images.evo.com/imgp/700/1446/157991/k2-seth-vicious-skis-2006.jpg .) and came to a stop after a long slide facing downhill with my arms protecting my head and clenched fists (adding a broken fibula to the list). If i had expired at that point that's how they would have found me. True i didn't and the pain of two broken ends of my tibia scraping past each other as the muscle contracted got me turned round real quick to use gravity to counter it but you get the idea. It all depends on what happens and how gravity reduces the pain
Rustem had a 1litre of internal bleeding same as Semyon. So quite plausible imo that he was further away from the ravine explosion but the shockwave tore his rib muscle et al and he collapsed and died with the same degree of internal bleeding as Semyon. So it fits he was trying to get back to the tent with Zina. The clenched fist indicating pain.
"Your lies are old but you fell them well. "
I'm no lies Nige...
I've read that novella you posted. I see 2 killed sat by in amazement, they didn't jump out windows..seems they headed for shelter and those outside froze in fear. Quite different how the hikers reacted, no?
If your claim is BL is respnsible for the RAV4..how did it involve Alex, he died of exposure and Luddy it's explained, she fell or ran into a ledge. "Death is forcible." <---- what's that mean, tried to look it up couldn't find. :c{
FYI... Its completely unnatural to fall with a closed fist, just like it is to lay down on a hill with your feet towards the summit.
Your lies are old but you fell them well.
"Ah... ambiguous."
That's the DPI for you. What's not ambiguous is that they built a fire which is somewhat at odds with the murder most foul theories. Don't see that getting mentioned much in this War and Peace of injury stuff.
"This is a jamming injury to the hand... No doubt about it."
What like when you slip badly and stick your hand in a rock?
"Its a whole host of injuries that are 100% consistent with hand/hand combat. "
Its a whole host of injuries that are 100% ambiguous with hand/hand combat. Nearly all the right words and spelling is correct...
"you should remember you have already had to eat crow numerous times in the past few weeks."
Yes and i'm eating crow becuase I'M finding errors in stated facts which is more than you have done. But nothing to change the overall BL theory, just details.
"and I think you keep forgetting they were found NEXT TO A FIRE."
Yes that's why i used the word ambiguous...
"Three more to go!"
and nothing conclusive so far
"the second metacarpal bone is an abrasion 2 x 1.5 cm in size, brownish-colored with hemorrhages in the underlying soft tissues".
NOTE: Right index finger abrasion along with some serious damage to the underlying tissue. This is... In fact what happens when you punch something, or someone... Along with swelling of the back of the hand. This is a jamming injury to the hand... No doubt about it.
Its not just one busted lip Nigel. Its a whole host of injuries that are 100% consistent with hand/hand combat. Instead of ignoring the overwhelming evidence of fighting injuries, you should remember you have already had to eat crow numerous times in the past few weeks.
They nearly ALL have these injuries consistent with fighting across the hands and face/head. Amazing how selective BL would be when nobody even knows what BL consists of. :/ I would also presume the medical examiners would know what an electrical burn looks like vs a fire burn, and I think you keep forgetting they were found NEXT TO A FIRE.
Three more to go!
@KMM.
"It was forming the impression that, when the hikers, at their feet, descended down the mountain, SOMEBODY intentionally ended some of them"
Very interesting quote from Nigels role model.... Perhaps he should either listen, or realize he daddy was the entire season we are talking about it in the first place. Ivanov couldn't solve how he got up in the morning. We all know it including Nigel... He's just in a perpetual state of denial.
As said many times now they're all ambiguous, burnt hair could be from the fire, could be from BL. The pulmonary edema could be from falling or electrocution from BL... The split lip is a combat wound but falling out of a tree could do it. There's not one individual where it is clear they they got beaten up, all ambiguous which lends the evidence to a non combat scenario imo and in Ivanov's.
Also imo it's a stretch that these tough resilient kids should both end up dead with burns and edema from falling out of a tree. Accidents do happen, but i'm finding this hard to swallow. But there was human skin/flesh on the tree and YuriK lived long enough afterwards to bite the back of his hand dealing with the pain. But i'd put my money on something other than a human accident, maybe even superhuman...
N.B. the gore could be from his brain expanding, bursting into the sinus area and running out of his nose. This is relevant to Rustems fracture if his sinuses didn't burst then the skull might crack. http://www.rjlm.ro/system/revista/15/199-202.pdf .
btw it's spelt "specific", here endeth the lesson
Or wait.... You cant, that's? it.... Gotcha
https://sites.google.com/site/hibinaud/home/akt-issledovania-trupa-dorosenko-uria .
"On the left leg are two pairs of knitted light brown socks, with rips in the area of ??the rear of the foot and ankle joint; woolen socks are white, with a heel trimmed, in the area of ??the forefoot on the toe, there is a burnt area of ??2 х 5 cm in dark brown color".
NOTE: Burnt toe area of left sock. Unknown if the toe itself is burned.
"On the right leg, the remnants of a cotton sock with an elastic band are the same color as the one on the left. Wool white socks. On the inner surface of the panties there is a marking label with the inscription STS1313".
NOTE: Thats an odd brand name for a pair of undies. :/ But I digress! .
"In the right temporo-parietal and occipital region there is a burning area of ??the ends of the hair, the hair is stained with remains of moss and needles of coniferous trees".
NOTE: Ends of the hair on the right side above and behind the ear are burned.
"In the region of the back of the nose, the tip of the nose and the upper lip, there are traces of discharge of gore".
NOTE: Not very spicific as to what the 'gore' actually is, but I would imagine blood is involved. Blood/snot... You get the idea.
"Upper lip swelling, in the red portion of the upper lip hemorrhage dark red measuring 1.5 x 2 cm".
NOTE: Swollen upper lip thats busted... Hemorrhaging... Blood.
"In the area of ??the right cheek, soft tissues are covered with a layer of frothy gray liquid, from the mouth of the mouth there are traces of discharge of liquid of gray color".
NOTE: Fairly strange.... Literally foaming out of the mouth when died. Pretty sure this is where the pulmonary edema comes from. "Pulmonary edema is a condition caused by excess fluid in the lungs. This fluid collects in the numerous air sacs in the lungs, making it difficult to breathe. In most cases, heart problems cause pulmonary edema." Fairly important information I would say.
"on the inner surface of the right shoulder in the middle third are two abrasions measuring 2 x 1.5 cm. brown color of parchment density of irregular shape, without hemorrhages in the underlying tissues. In the area of ??these abrasions two cuts of linear are made".
NOTE: Minor cuts and Abrasions outer collar bone/arm region likely caused by carrying a heavy pack. Had this myself in the usmc plenty of times. Yuri was a fairly big dude and likely carried the tent, which would be the heaviest load. You can see him carrying it in this pic... For the last time. http://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Krivonischenko-camera-film1-31.jpg .
"On the front surface of the right shoulder, small bruises of reddish color in the form of strips measuring 4 x 1 cm, 2.5 x 1.5 cm and 5 x 0.5 cm and minor abrasions in the lower third of the right forearm".
NOTE: Right shoulder same as above, and and minor abrasions of the forearm.
"In the area of ??the rear of the right hand, soft tissue swelling and minor abrasions. At the rear of the hand".
NOTE: Back of the right hand is swollen with abrasions.
"the second metacarpal bone is an abrasion 2 x 1.5 cm in size, brownish-colored with hemorrhages in the underlying soft tissues".
NOTE: Right index finger abrasion along with some serious damage to the underlying tissue. This is... In fact what happens when you punch something, or someone... Along with swelling of the back of the hand. This is a jamming injury to the hand... No doubt about it.
"On the lateral surfaces of the left elbow joint, small abrasions of a burgundy color of parchment density and abrasions of the same color 2 x 3 cm in size with traces of slip in the form of bands parallel to each other".
NOTE: Abrasion of the elbow.. could be from anything.
"On the inner surface of the left forearm on the border of the middle third and the lower third, the cutaneous wound of an irregular oval shape measuring 0.6 x 0.5 cm, its edges slightly pinched and covered with gore, under the wound marks of gore. A cut was made in the region of this wound, where a hemorrhage in the underlying soft tissues was detected".
NOTE: cutaneous..... 'of the skin'. Deep nasty pusy wound with underlying bleeding with a raised outer rim... Like a volcano crater rim.
"Soft tissue in the area of ??the rear of the left hand is slightly swollen reddish-colored. End phalanx of fingers of hands dark-blue color".
NOTE: Swollen back of left hand, and the ending segments of the fingers have early signs of frostbite. Bet ya 100 rubles he is right handed.
"Soft tissues in the area of ??the terminal phalanges of the toes of the foot are dark-colored".
NOTE: Ends of all toes showing signs of frostbite.
"The aperture of the anus and the urethra are clean".
NOTE: Yeah... Too much information!!!
Ok... Yuri-D wasn't in 'that' bad of shape. He had a few easily explainable bumps and scrapes, but he obviously punched the living shit out of 'something' or 'someone', and received a nice busted lip.
The real interesting ones are yet to come
A STRANGE TRAGEDY ON THE MALVERN HILLS
If the GLO ‘Fireball’ might be compared to an aerial bomb, artillery shell, or depth-charge, and the ‘Apparition’ to a floating mine, then the ‘Roller’ is perhaps best described as the ‘battle tank’ of these phenomenal invaders. The following case, surely one of the weirdest and most chilling events of a phenomenal nature ever recorded, certainly bears out the latter analogy.
On a fine day at the height of the English summer, the three daughters and the eldest son of Joseph Hill, a wealthy resident of Lindridge, an attractive village in the valley of the River Teme, Worcestershire, set out for a walk over the nearby Malvern Hills. They were accompanied by several young ladies, staying as guests of the family, and a manservant bearing their provisions in a small handcart.
Around 15:00, the party reached the Worcestershire Beacon, at 425 metres above sea level the highest point in the range, and upon which there was a solitary building that had been erected on the orders of a Lady Harcourt. The robust structure, designed as a storm shelter and intended for the use of people walking on the hills, was built of stone and covered with a roof of iron plates. It consisted of a single room with a stone table in the centre and seats on each side; it had two apertures: a doorway and a window sited opposite the door.
Shortly after their arrival the sky took on an ominous appearance, and soon a great and furious electric storm advanced upon the hill. Brilliant discharges of lightning flashed from the skies almost incessantly, producing a succession of thunderclaps, the violence of which was so great as to make the ground itself shudder. Quite understandably the young people became fearful of being in the open at the mercy of the elements, and the entire party, with the exception of the servant, abandoned their picnic and fled into the shelter. No doubt feeling reasonably secure once they were within its sturdy walls, Eliza and Joannah Hill, and a friend, Ellen Woodyatt of Hereford, seated themselves at the table, while the rest stood and waited for the storm to pass. What none could have been aware of was the approach of a menacing phenomenon with all the energetic potential of the deadliest lightning bolt ever hurled into the earth, and yet so lethally different from an ordinary electrical discharge that it rendered those within as vulnerable as the poor servant left outside to face the tempest.
After a while, Margaret Hill, aged about 15, who had been extremely upset by the storm, went to the door hoping to see some sign that the disturbance was moving away.
Deliverance, however, was certainly not at hand instead she saw the remorseless approach of a thing unearthly and absolutely terrifying: a huge ball of ‘electric fire’ was rolling at high velocity along the surface of the hill, and directly towards the entrance of the party’s retreat! So rapid was the advance of this dreadful object that no sooner had the poor girl recovered from her initial shock, and before she could alert those within, it was upon her and she was hurled violently to the ground. Quite remarkably, though her shoes, and part of her dress, were burned, Margaret survived. Her brother, who had been standing nearby, was injured in much the same manner.
Some other members of the party, however, were tragically and quite horribly less fortunate. The rolling fireball rushed into the building through the doorway and struck the stone table, which was instantly shattered into fragments. It then passed straight across the room and exited through the window, tearing out the frame and surrounding stonework. In its passage, the rampaging fireball also smashed apart many of the large stones that comprised the walls. Of the three young women seated around the table, two, Eliza and Ellen, were killed on the spot, and Joannah was left apparently more dead than alive.
The horror of the scene left the manservant, who alone had suffered no physical injury, almost deranged. When he looked into the shelter, it must have seemed like a massacre, for all the young persons had been affected; most had been struck down and lay dead or injured on the ground. He began to scream with hysteria, his pitiful cries alerting a labourer working nearby.
This man rendered whatever assistance he could before seeking help. Eventually a physician reached the scene, examined the badly injured Joannah and, having discovered that vital signs were still present, proceeded to open a vein and relieve the victim of a quantity of blood - still a standard procedure in 1826. She was then taken to Great Malvern and lodged in the Unicorn Inn where she remained, possibly conscious but certainly unable to speak. Doctors were pessimistic as to her chances of recovery (optimism being somewhat unfashionable in the medical circles of those days).
An examination of the dead bodies, and the severe injuries to Joannah, revealed that all three had suffered burns to the face, neck, and breast, and that the hair on their heads was intact on one side while burnt off on the other. The clothes of each girl were also partly destroyed. A coroner’s inquest on the deceased would have been held within a few days, but, to the best of my knowledge, no further details were printed in subsequent issues of the two London newspapers* from which I have compiled this account.
According to a paper in the Transactions of the Worcestershire Archaeological Society for 1957, an entry in the diary of Charles Dunne (1783-1850), rector of the manor of Earl’s Croome, refers to three women having died in the tragedy, while a footnote states that the victims were a party of seven, and that all three of the Hill girls were killed along with Miss Woodyat.
The true number of fatal victims could be traced through burial records, and it is probable that at least one of the victims is interred in the churchyard at Lindridge where some form of memorial should be extant. The fate of poor Joanna is no doubt described in an article, or announcement in a local newspaper which should eventually be located.
The nature of this terrible rolling fireball, if examined in terms of conventional atmospheric physics is totally inexplicable: An ‘ordinary’ discharge of lightning would have immediately gone to earth in or close to its point of contact in a fraction of a second, but this fearsome peripatetic manifestation was sustained, coherent in form, and evidently under control.
The destruction of the stone table was an example of the awesome power of the GLO Roller, while its effects on the three victims seated around the table, demonstrates the complex nature of what was clearly a violent, yet curiously selective outpouring of energy. The dramatic fracturing of this rather formidable item of furniture would have actually been caused by heat, generated when electrical energy from the fireball penetrated this poor conductor and obstacle to its progress. Energetic discharges, projected out like tentacles, had much the same effect on the wall stones they contacted, and also removed the window and its surround in a violent but mechanical fashion.
Contact with human tissue and clothing evidently brought about an almost instantaneous change of amperage and frequency in these electric and electromagnetic projections, a factor that prevented the victims’ bodies from superheating and exploding into fragments. Whatever the nature of the mechanism housed within the envelope of the GLO, it clearly operated at a phenomenal speed and seems to have endowed the object with a crude sense of purpose.
* The Times, 07.07.1826, p3f; The Age v2, p482, 09.07.1826
above or beyond what is human; having a higher nature or greater powers than humans have:
Lev Ivanov, who conducted the subsequent investigation and closed the case, stated, "In May, together with EP Maslennikov, we inspected the vicinity of the scene of the incident (in the area of ??the ravine and cedar), noting that some of the new spruce at the edge of the forest have burn marks, but such traces did not have a concentric shape or any other shape system, nor did they have an epicenter. This confirms that some kind of heat ray or strong energy, but completely unknown (at least for us), has been directed, acting selectively: the snow has not been melted, the trees have not been damaged. It was forming the impression that, when the hikers, at their feet, descended down the mountain, somebody intentionally ended some of them
#2 Its says right there in the quote 'political AND CRIMINAL'
#3 Am I to believe everything Russia says or does?
#4 Your stupid list shows when administrators began their term.
#5Your entire rant is irrelevant because an escaped prisoner in 1950 can still be evading the authorities in 1959. If they were to stop building cars today, would that mean all existing cars prior are non existent?
God have mercy this is stupid!
my typo you cited as if I thought Khrushchev closed the gulags BEFORE HE WAS BORN -- not worth anything more than an "oops" -- I have bad eyesighrt and didn't see the typo. -- should read 1956, and not 1856.
--- The Gulag institution was closed by the MVD order No 020 of January 25, 1960 but forced labor colonies for political and criminal prisoners continued to exist. Political prisoners continued to be kept in one of the most famous camps Perm-36 until 1987 when it was closed."
-- um ... you could claim political prisoners are everywhere, even in the USA.
--- also --- Perm-36 is outside Moscow and is over 1,000 miles from where the hikers were.
--- from the wiki site you posted --- note the last date (April 4, 1956) for administration of the gulags --- anything after that date was illegal and subject to immediate shut-down.
Gulag administrators
Name
Years[78][79][80]
Feodor (Teodors) Ivanovich Eihmans April 25, 1930 – June 16, 1930
Lazar Iosifovich Kogan June 16, 1930 – June 9, 1932
Matvei Davidovich Berman June 9, 1932 – August 16, 1937
Israel Israelevich Pliner August 16, 1937 – November 16, 1938
Gleb Vasilievich Filaretov November 16, 1938 – February 18, 1939
Vasili Vasilievich Chernyshev February 18, 1939 – February 26, 1941
Victor Grigorievich Nasedkin February 26, 1941 – September 2, 1947
Georgiy Prokopievich Dobrynin September 2, 1947 – January 31, 1951
Ivan Ilyich Dolgich January 31, 1951 – October 5, 1954
Sergei Yegorovich Yegorov October 5, 1954 – April 4, 1956
In tonight's post we will observe the body of Yuri Doroshenko. The long time lover of Zina and quite possibly the trigger for Igors issues. Lets do this.
https://sites.google.com/site/hibinaud/home/akt-issledovania-trupa-dorosenko-uria .
"On the left leg are two pairs of knitted light brown socks, with rips in the area of ??the rear of the foot and ankle joint; woolen socks are white, with a heel trimmed, in the area of ??the forefoot on the toe, there is a burnt area of ??2 х 5 cm in dark brown color".
NOTE: Burnt toe area of left sock. Unknown if the toe itself is burned.
"On the right leg, the remnants of a cotton sock with an elastic band are the same color as the one on the left. Wool white socks. On the inner surface of the panties there is a marking label with the inscription STS1313".
NOTE: Thats an odd brand name for a pair of undies. :/ But I digress! .
"In the right temporo-parietal and occipital region there is a burning area of ??the ends of the hair, the hair is stained with remains of moss and needles of coniferous trees".
NOTE: Ends of the hair on the right side above and behind the ear are burned.
"In the region of the back of the nose, the tip of the nose and the upper lip, there are traces of discharge of gore".
NOTE: Not very spicific as to what the 'gore' actually is, but I would imagine blood is involved. Blood/snot... You get the idea.
"Upper lip swelling, in the red portion of the upper lip hemorrhage dark red measuring 1.5 x 2 cm".
NOTE: Swollen upper lip thats busted... Hemorrhaging... Blood.
"In the area of ??the right cheek, soft tissues are covered with a layer of frothy gray liquid, from the mouth of the mouth there are traces of discharge of liquid of gray color".
NOTE: Fairly strange.... Literally foaming out of the mouth when died. Pretty sure this is where the pulmonary edema comes from. "Pulmonary edema is a condition caused by excess fluid in the lungs. This fluid collects in the numerous air sacs in the lungs, making it difficult to breathe. In most cases, heart problems cause pulmonary edema." Fairly important information I would say.
"on the inner surface of the right shoulder in the middle third are two abrasions measuring 2 x 1.5 cm. brown color of parchment density of irregular shape, without hemorrhages in the underlying tissues. In the area of ??these abrasions two cuts of linear are made".
NOTE: Minor cuts and Abrasions outer collar bone/arm region likely caused by carrying a heavy pack. Had this myself in the usmc plenty of times. Yuri was a fairly big dude and likely carried the tent, which would be the heaviest load. You can see him carrying it in this pic... For the last time. http://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Krivonischenko-camera-film1-31.jpg .
"On the front surface of the right shoulder, small bruises of reddish color in the form of strips measuring 4 x 1 cm, 2.5 x 1.5 cm and 5 x 0.5 cm and minor abrasions in the lower third of the right forearm".
NOTE: Right shoulder same as above, and and minor abrasions of the forearm.
"In the area of ??the rear of the right hand, soft tissue swelling and minor abrasions. At the rear of the hand".
NOTE: Back of the right hand is swollen with abrasions.
"the second metacarpal bone is an abrasion 2 x 1.5 cm in size, brownish-colored with hemorrhages in the underlying soft tissues".
NOTE: Right index finger abrasion along with some serious damage to the underlying tissue. This is... In fact what happens when you punch something, or someone... Along with swelling of the back of the hand. This is a jamming injury to the hand... No doubt about it.
"On the lateral surfaces of the left elbow joint, small abrasions of a burgundy color of parchment density and abrasions of the same color 2 x 3 cm in size with traces of slip in the form of bands parallel to each other".
NOTE: Abrasion of the elbow.. could be from anything.
"On the inner surface of the left forearm on the border of the middle third and the lower third, the cutaneous wound of an irregular oval shape measuring 0.6 x 0.5 cm, its edges slightly pinched and covered with gore, under the wound marks of gore. A cut was made in the region of this wound, where a hemorrhage in the underlying soft tissues was detected".
NOTE: cutaneous..... 'of the skin'. Deep nasty pusy wound with underlying bleeding with a raised outer rim... Like a volcano crater rim.
"Soft tissue in the area of ??the rear of the left hand is slightly swollen reddish-colored. End phalanx of fingers of hands dark-blue color".
NOTE: Swollen back of left hand, and the ending segments of the fingers have early signs of frostbite. Bet ya 100 rubles he is right handed.
"Soft tissues in the area of ??the terminal phalanges of the toes of the foot are dark-colored".
NOTE: Ends of all toes showing signs of frostbite.
"The aperture of the anus and the urethra are clean".
NOTE: Yeah... Too much information!!!
Ok... Yuri-D wasn't in 'that' bad of shape. He had a few easily explainable bumps and scrapes, but he obviously punched the living shit out of 'something' or 'someone'. No real issues of any kind to the face etc, so I imagine? he was a giver and not a taker.
The real interesting ones are yet to come.
Well, if the force is "superhuman," it ain't BL! ;cP
To give you your due. After having read some of the witness accounts on hibinaud, I can now see the connection to your BL obsession...
One witness said they saw a circular cloud that grew in size so much so, he thought planets were colliding.
Or could one of these ....
http://news.sky.com/story/meteor-team-of-20000-sent-to-ural-mountains-10454500
@John Wolfe, Being a fan of reality myself an FYI, Khrushchev was born in 1894.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulag .
"The Gulag institution was closed by the MVD order No 020 of January 25, 1960 but forced labor colonies for political and criminal prisoners continued to exist. Political prisoners continued to be kept in one of the most famous camps Perm-36 until 1987 when it was closed."
I forgot to add to the comment (see below this) ..... according to the trolls ...... all this was covered up by the Soviet Government because they found out it was carried out by their own KGB in an effort to hide secret weapons testing which leaves no evidence (other than strange injuries) and was designed to confuse the American CIA agent who just happened to be in the area to pick up a sample of "radioactive" material from a defector --- thus, this assassination of the nine counter-revolutionary hikers was assigned to the Mansi (modern, and quite friendly, Siberian hunter-gatherers / tribesmen / they're also good drinkers) who hired Yeti (abomdidibaomdidibomadbale snow-men) who don't actually exist but existed long enough to hand it off to space aliens -- WHO USED BALL LIGHTNING TO ATTACK THE HIKERS ! (and thus thoroughly confuse this writer) -- the very same space aliens, who, I might add, are sick to death of internet trolls. (I know, I know, I know ....... the internet wasn't conceived until the mid-1960's, and utilizing software developed in the 1970's, was privately implemented in the late 1980's and made public in the early 1990's ....... but the space aliens have a time machine !)
Hey look! I've got to go off to my star-system for a while -- I'll write some more a few days ago ... when I have some more .......time
-- this is actually a good idea -- I will be suggesting this to the Ural State Technical University this winter -- and yes, it is a frightening idea -- ball lightning, that is -- though some trolls prefer to fear invisible attackers who don't leave footprints anywhere in the area, who have no motivation to torture and kill nine hikers, who wield superhuman strength and produce air-burst like injuries designed to fool .......... fools.
5 nights of autopsy reports.... Post 2 coming up in just a few hrs.
YURI DOROSHENKO
2. ear, nose and lips are covered with blood <<<<<<< BEAT TO SHIT
3. swollen upper lip with dark red hemorrhage <<<<<<<<< BEAT TO SHIT
4. right cheek soft tissue covered with gray foam; gray liquid coming form his open mouth. Most apparent cause is pulmonary edema. (Pulmonary Edema.... Fluid in lungs... Common when starved of oxygen) <<<<<<< CHOKED THE FRICK OUT
7. right armpit has a bruise 2x1.5 cm <<<<<<<< FIGHTING
8. brown-red bruises with size 4x1 cm, 2.5x1.5 cm, 5x5 cm in the upper third of right forearm <<<<<<< FIGHTING
9. swelling and small abrasions in the rear of the right hand soft tissue <<<<<<< KICKING SOMEONES ASS
10. bruise with bleeding into the underlying soft tissue on the back of the right hand corresponding to the second metacarpal bone <<<< KICKING SOMEONES ASS
14. on the inner surface of the left forearm there is a surface skin wound covered with dried blood <<<<<<<<< BLOCKING/FIGHTING
15. similar bruises in pale red color on the shins of both legs <<<<<<< FIGHTING GROUND WRESTLE
YURI KRIVONISCHENKO
1. bruises on the forehead 0.3x1.8 cm <<<<<<< BEAT TO SHIT
2. diffuse bleeding in the right temporal and occipital region due to damage to temporalis muscle <<<<<<< BEAT TO SHIT
3. bruise around left temporal bone <<<<<<<< BEAT TO SHIT
7. back of the right hand is swollen, fingers are brownish-purple <<<<<<< KICKING THAT ASS
14. dark red abrasions on left wrist, back of the left hand is swollen <<<<<<<<< KICKING THAT ASS
16.three linear skin lesions with straight edges, sharp corners and depth up to 0.3 cm on the inner side of the upper third of the left thigh <<< FIGHTING, POSSIBLE TREE CLIMBING
17. three cutaneous wounds with sharp corners on the inner side of the upper third of the left hip <<<<<< BEAT TO SHIT
18. dark brown abrasion on the front of the right femur and tibia <<<<< FIGHTING OR BIG FALL
19. dark brown-red abrasions on the front-inner left thigh <<<<<<< FIGHTING OR BIG FALL
IGOR DYATLOV
1. minor abrasions on the forehead <<<<<< FIGHTING BEAT UP
2. minor abrasions on the upper eyelids <<<<<<< FIGHTING BEAT UP
3. brown-red abrasions above the left eyebrow <<<<<<<< FIGHTING BEAT UP
4. minor abrasions on the left cheek <<<<<<<< FIGHTING BEAT UP
5. brown-red abrasions on both cheeks <<<<<<<< FIGHTING BEAT UP
6. dried blood on lips <<<<<<<<< BEAT TO SHIT
8. bruised knees without bleeding into the UNDERLYING tissues <<<<<< FIGHTING WRESTLING
9. both ankles had brownish red abrasions, size 1x0.5 cm and 3x2.5 cm with hemorrhage into the 10. underlying tissue <<<<<< FIGHTING POSSIBLE DRAGGING
10. single incision 4x2 cm in the lower third of the right tibia <<<<<< FIGHTING CUT WOUND
11. many small scratches of dark red color on the lower third of the right forearm and palm surface <<<<<<< FIGHTING
13. metacarpophalangeal joints on the right hand had brown red bruises. This is common injury in hand to hand fights. To get a better idea of the injuries just make a fist. This is the part of the hand which you use to hit someone. <<<<<< FIGHTING!!!!!!
14. left hand is brown-purple color with brownish-red bruises <<<< FIGHTING
15. superficial wounds on the 2nd and 5th finger on the left hand <<<<<<< FIGHTING
16. skin wound in the palmar surface of the 2nd 5th finger of left hand <<<<<<< FIGHTING
ZINAIDA KOLMOGOROVA
1. dark red abrasion on the right frontal eminence <<<<< BEAT TO SHIT
2. pale gray area 3x2 cm above the right eyebrow <<<<< STRANGE
3. dark red abrasion on the upper eyelids <<<<<<< BEAT TO SHIT
4. brown red graze on the bridge and tip of the nose <<<<<<<< BEAT TO SHIT
5. numerous abrasions on the left cheekbone <<<<<<< BEAT TO SHIT
6. bruised skin on the right side of the face <<<<<<< BEAT TO SHIT
7. brown-red abrasion on the back of both hands in the area of metacarpal phalangeal and inter-phalangeal joints <<<<<< KICKING THAT ASS
8. wound with jagged edges and missing skin on the back of the right hand at the base of the third finger <<<<<<< KICKING THAT ASS
10. a long BRIGHT red bruise 29x6 cm in the lumbar region on the right side of the torso. The bruise looks like left from a baton <<<<<<< BEAT TO SHIT..... BATON, BRIGHT RED, FRESH, NOT DAYS OLD, BIG FUGGIN STICK WACK.
RUSTEM SLOBODIN
1. hemorrhages in the temporalis muscles <<<<<< BEAT TO SHIT
2. minor brownish red abrasions on the forehead <<<<<< FIGHTING
3. two scratches are 1.5 cm long at the distance of 0.3 cm between them
4. brownish red bruise on the upper eyelid of the right eye with hemorrhage into the UNDERLYING tissues <<<< BEAT TO SHIT
5. traces of blood discharge from the nose <<<<< BEAT TO SHIT
6. SWELLING and a lot of small abrasions on both sides of the face <<<<<< GOOD GOD BEAT TO SHIT
7. bruises in the metacarpophalangeal joints on both hands. Similar bruises are common in hand to hand combat <<<< KICKING THAT ASS
8. brown cherry bruises on the medial aspect of the left arm and left palm <<<<<<< FIGHTING
9. SWOLEN lips. <<<<<<< BEAT TO SHIT
10. bruises on the left tibia in dimensions at 2.5x1.5 cm (not shown on diagram) <<<<< LITERALLY KICKING.... THAT ASS
11. epidermis is torn from the right forearm (not shown on diagram) <<<<< FIGHTING, KICKING ASS
12. fracture of the frontal bone 6x0.1 cm located 1.5 cm from the sagittal suture (showing on separate skull trauma diagram without numbers) BEAT TO SHIT, BLOW TO HEAD, FIGHT OVER, CAN BE DONE WITH FIST, ROCK, LOG, BOOT, YOU PICK
AND THATS JUST THE 5 NOT ROTTED BEYOND RECOGNITION.
LOL - Well go and reread your post - 03-09-2017 23:14 (GMT)
@Lyndasez - you've confused me again.
The info about the fall is from 2 sites, you determine.
". Doroshenko was lying on his stomach. Beneath it found a broken branch of a tree from falling into several pieces." -hibinaud
"Remains of a fire under old cedar with branches broken up to 5 m high suggesting that hikers had climbed up to look for something or to hide from someone." -this site. 16ft
Never have I claimed the 2Yuris died from falling from the cedar, nor have I suggested their other injuries directly resulted in their deaths. You have an opinion that BL spicifically targets the back of hands and the face of its victims. I am of the opinion that there very well have been a tree climbing exercise, but some of these injuries are a clear sign of possible fight, i.e 'hand/hand combat'.
We all know from their photo evidence that these injuries were not present in the days prior, and you shouldn't get them by pitching a tent in deep snow or walking down a hill.
You have your opinion and now we should hear from the rest of the board what they think.
We have several more victims to go through.....
When I was 7 years old, I fell out a tree and snapped my elbow. Yeah... I was a climber.
What's curious here is both the Yuris seem to die early in the sequence of events. That's pushing probabilities imo.
They could both be involved in the fall but both dying?
Normally I would agree, but not with this... Way too many of said injuries to be causes by one fall.
@KMM - my theory would have it that Igor waited too long for the Zina and Rustem to return and was suffering from hypothermia = confusion. He seems to have been stopped ascending by small thicket, i.e. too confused to navigate around.
@LC - if these guys have fallen out of a tree then split lips etc are explainable. Ivanov mentions that there was a small piece of flesh hanging from the cedar, looks a really bad slide/fall.
"Death violent - unhappy happening"
https://sites.google.com/site/hibinaud/home/akt-issledovania-trupa-krivonisenko-g .
"The left-hand lower half pants offline until the level of the knee joint, the edge of the fabric pants in areas breakage pants misaligned with charring the fabric." .
NOTE: Good to know... His left outer pant leg was missing up to the knee with a jagged charred edge.
"in an outer pocket a coil of copper wire and silk pink ribbon." .
NOTE: I thought this was a bit odd, but whatever .
"On the left leg cotton sock torn, the edges of his charred." .
NOTE: Charred left sock also.
"In the left temporal region there are two abrasions of a brownish-red color of parchment density, with a size of 1.2 by ?, 3 cm and 1 cm by 0.2 cm" .
NOTE: Abrasions on the left temple.. welp somehow they got there! You decide.
In the middle third of the nose, a brown-red abrasion , parchment density, passing into the wound in the tip of the nose and wings with a defect of soft tissues measuring 1.8 x 2 cm.
NOTE: Another abrasion. This one on the nose that goes right up to the point the tip of nose being missing. I do agree the missing tip of nose was from scavengers.
"Mucous lips of dark-cinnamon- colored parchment density, the mouth is closed, lips are swollen. Behind the lower." .
NOTE: Swollen lips!! I don't think its possible for ship rats to swell up lips in extreme sub-zero temps.
"Behind the lower teeth flap epidermis pale gray color with papillary lines size of flap 1.8 to 0.6 cm." .
NOTE: Cut lower lip into top two layers if skin... And size. The size is nearly 3/4 of an inch for all you non Brits. Thats one hell of a busted lip! .
"on the cheeks abrasion dark brown color parchment density" .
NOTE: More abrasions to the face... More ship rat carnage? You decide .
"The auricles are swollen with a cyanotic red color" .
NOTE: Red and Swollen ears!! Again... Swelling in sub temps.
"On the right side surface of the rib cage at the level of the axillary cavities abrasions of pale red color measuring 7 by 2 cm, without hemorrhages in the underlying tissues." .
NOTE: More abrasions.... Right side of mid rib cage. Not so deep.
"At the rib margin of the right hypochondrium along the middle clavicle line abrasions of pale red color of parchment density of 2 x 1.2 cm size 1 x 1.2 cm, without hemorrhages in the underlying tissues." .
NOTE: Another abrasion. Upper right chest inline with nipple. Not that deep
"The rear of the right hand is swollen. In the region of the metacarpophalangeal joints, soft tissues are whitish -gray in color, the fingers burolilovogo colors terminal phalanx dry dark brown color, n and rear of these fingers minor skin abrasions dark brown color parchment density. Palmar surface of the right hand bluish-red color with skin Ranko with jagged edges dark brown color at the base of the first finger. On the middle phalanx of the third (forwarded from the "average" - note). finger defect of the epidermis in shape and size coinciding with that found in the oral cavity".
NOTE: Right hand swollen, blueish red color, jagged cut at base of index finger.... And a big chunk of the back of his hand missing...... Matches the chunk of skin found stuck in his own teeth.
"In the area of ??the left wrist joint, grazes of dark red color of parchment density of 5 x 2.5 cm, the rear of the left hand swelling".
NOTE: Swollen left hand.
"Along the whole width of the rear - the left hand scalp wound with delaminated epidermis dark brown color parchment density measuring 8 x 2 cm".
NOTE: Big damn cut roughly 3" by .75" above and behind the left ear.
"Rear fingers 2-5 left brush black color with wrinkled epidermis 5 thumb and dried up end phalanges. On the palmar surface, the soft tissues of the terminal phalanges are dried, dense. On average phalanges 4-5 fingers a skin wound of 1.5 x 1 cm and 1 x 0.5 cm of dark brown color, dense to the touch with charring".
NOTE: Dried up... Frostbite.... Down to the bone in fact. Phalanges are the bones within the hand. Sounds like some burning also. Poor dude burnt his hand trying to prevent frostbite and failed.
"On the outer surface of the left buttock and the left thigh are areas of soft tissues of pink color and brown color of parchment density with a sliding epidermis on the site size 10 x 3 cm, 6 x 2 cm and 4 x 5 cm".
NOTE: Basically another big ass abrasion... On the butt/thigh.
"On the antero-internal surface of the thigh abrasions of dark brown dark-red color of parchment density in size ? x 2 cm. 1 x 1.5 cm, and more small".
NOTE: Same left thigh, inner abrasion... Smaller then the outer thigh/butt abrasion.
"On the inner surface of the upper third of the left thigh, three skin lesions ??? eynoy shape with smooth edges depth up to 0.3 cm. with sharp angles size of 1.5 to 04 cm. Left shin and ??? and swollen".
NOTE: Strange lacerations and swelling of the upper 1/3 of the inner left thigh. Could quite possibly be from climbing a tree.... Ill give ya that one Nigel.
NOTE: Big ass burn on lower shin/calf of leg... I thought it was the right, but this says left.
"On the posteromedial surface of the left lower leg abrasions dark brown color parchment density measuring 8 x 1.3 cm. ? x 1.5 cm and 2 x 1 cm".
NOTE: Abrasion on the mid section of left calf
"The rear of the left foot is brown- brown in color with epidermis peeling sites measuring 10 x 4 cm. ??? The second finger is charred dark brown the color of the fabric ????? are dense to the touch".
NOTE: Left heel skin peeling... More of the burn I believe. The ring-toe is charred
"On the front surface of the right thigh and lower leg, abrasions dark brown color of parchment density of 5 x 2 cm. 3 x 8 cm, 7 x 1 cm, and 2 x ? cm".
NOTE: 4 Abrasions down the front of right leg.
Some of these injuries can be from climbing a tree or scuffling about in the woods etc, but the hand wounds, and swelling along with the cut lip, head, swollen lips and ears tell me he was in a scuffle with someone or something. You won't get this many external issues from one fall out a tree and he was in perfect health via photographic evidence in the days prior. He obtained all these injuries that fateful night.
Nigel : My error, all three had fb on their fingers but none on their toes so no need for taking shoes off anyone which is how this got started
You don't need frostbite to tell you your toes are freezing (cold) !
(Missing finger and blood blood blood. Sad)
Yes, I think this is one of the cedar Yuris, one climbed the tree, tried to hang on, caught a branch on the way down ripping off finger and accompanying skin to the back of his hand and tears to the legs.
@Nigel Evans
@LC et al - Repeating my previous post :-
(This relevant to your (and others?) frequent claims that there is obvious signs of combat. According to the above there isn't any at all, ever, and posters claiming otherwise need to see a doctor or explain why the official report is incorrect. Only the rav4 die from violence, probably superhuman but possibly not.)
Yes, Nigel, I see sticks n stones caused the injuries to the tent3 an cedar2...and speeding cars and blomb blasts hit the Rav3...No mention of possible "ball lighting." So your theory is out the window!
https://sites.google.com/site/hibinaud/home/protokol-osmotra-mesta-proissestvia
My error, all three had fb on their fingers but none on their toes so no need for taking shoes off anyone which is how this got started.
I stand corrected
That's the finding. RS could have been "lucky" that he further away from the explosion that killed the rav4 so something like a chunk of snow or ice hit him on one side pushing his head against something else, maybe the ground maybe a tree. The fracture could also have been due to freezing.
Whatever, this whole combat thinking is divorced from the official reports. Officially it never happened.
"Based on the data of the study, the corpse of Citizen DYATLOV Igor Alekseevich, 23 years old,"
" bladder, frostbite of the fingers of the extremities III and IV degree."
All 3 Zina, Rustem and Igor....
(which says he died of freezing and his fracture IS NOT attributed to violence.)
Agreed. He died of exposure, after something
cracked up both sides the head and stunned him to a crawl....
"The death of Slobodin is violent - an accident."
Same link... Look under the left column, at the top you will find the other autopsy reports... Scroll down on each one because the SECOND autopsy of the internals are there aswell.
"The fracture of the left frontal bone found during internal investigation could occur when a citizen of Slobodin fell or a bruise of the head area about solid objects, such as stones, ice and so on. This closed trauma of the skull is caused by a blunt instrument. At the time of its appearance, it undoubtedly caused a state of short-term stunning of SLOBODIN and facilitated the fastest freezing of SLOBODINE. The absence of a pronounced cerebral hemorrhage gives reason to believe that the death of SLOBODIN occurred precisely as a result of its freezing.
Body injuries found on the body of a citizen Slobodina, in the form of abrasions, scratches, and sieges are caused by a blunt instrument as a result of a fall or bruise on stones, ice and so on.
Damage was caused both during life, as well as in the agonal state and posthumously.
The data of the investigation of the corpse of SLOBODIN give grounds to believe that the food intake was 6-8 hours before the moment of death. The presence of alcohol during internal investigation was not detected.
-2-
Taking into account the above bodily injuries, Slobodin could move and crawl in the first hours from the moment of their infliction.
The death of Slobodin is violent - an accident."
Rustem couldn't move after being stunned by a blunt instrument ...but the injuries are on both sides of the head?!
This relevant to your (and others?) frequent claims that there is obvious signs of combat. According to the above there isn't any at all, ever, and posters claiming otherwise need to see a doctor or explain why the official report is incorrect. Only the rav4 die from violence, probably superhuman but possibly not.
BTW... Never have I stated the cedar2 or tent3 died as a result of their injuries. I simply acknowledge they have them.
Lyndasez.... Here is Rustems full file... Not just what Nigel wants you to see and think that's everything.
https://sites.google.com/site/hibinaud/home/akt-issledovania-trupa-slobodina-rustema
Really, no signs of violence, only on RAV4?!
What's this:
"Fracture of the frontal bone and hemorrhages (shaded areas) in the temporalis muscles that were found on the skull of Rustem Slobodin"
"swelling and a lot of small abrasions on both sides of the face"
"bruises in the metacarpophalangeal joints on both hands. Similar bruises are common in hand to hand combat"
Only the rav4 show any signs of violence according to the official report (from your link) :-
"Forensic medical examination found that Dyatlov, Doroshenko, Krivonischenko and Kolmogorov died from the action of low temperature (frozen), none of them had physical injuries, not counting minor scratches and abrasions. Slobodin had a crack in the skull 6 cm long, which had spread to 0.1 cm, but Slobodin died from cooling."
This relevant to your (and others?) frequent claims that there is obvious signs of combat. According to the above there isn't any at all, ever, and posters claiming otherwise need to see a doctor or explain why the official report is incorrect. Only the rav4 die from violence, probably superhuman but possibly not.
So, you turned this....
"Neither traces of the struggle nor the presence of other people were found in the tent or near it."
Into this....
"Nigel Evans 21-09-2017 18:53 (GMT)
Agreed, the official report specifically states that there were no signs of violence either at the tent or the cedar."
Nothing about the cedar Nigel... Nice little lie ya had there.
Again.... Thats your Boy Ivanov and he inspected the tent for like 39 seconds. There was also a whole mountain and valley in which blows took place.
"Based on the study of the corpse Kolevatov believe that his death came as a result of exposure to low temperature.
The body injuries found on the body of Kolevatov are in the head area - defects in soft tissues, as well as "bath" skin, are posthumous changes in a corpse that was recently found before it was found in the water.
Kolevatov's death is violent."
(Link to the page source Nigel...... Link)
Oh no, Ivanovs gut reaction was murder....then this:
"You know, Slava, it seems to me that there were two impacts of the elemental forces unknown to us: first – it was a mental impact bs it kicked them out of the tent just out of the blue, and the second – the physical impact that destroyed the three who went away from the main group”.
– Perhaps, Ivanov learned something that was a state secret?"
see...he said 3, he knew Luddy was trying to reach the others when she ran into a ledge.
" the entire den hole is a fraudulent attempt to create a narrative and hide something."
For sure! But the search party didn't dig that thing, it was there...what are the odds them setting down camp in the open breeze, when there was a pre-built encampment so close...and why weren't these kids allowed binoculars or a telescope??? Distress flare??
..a lighter??? Did they have lanterns...jeez.
I think I read similar in one of the testimonys, was it Ivanovs statement about the tent? LINK it! But the problem for your claim of 'no violence' is that its a big mountain and a big valley... And of course the autopsys? show otherwise. Where did each blow take place... On the slop, woods, creek.... No idea.b
Aha, the plot thickens! Thank you!
@KMM,
Thank you for that info...I was going by a previous post of LC....
( BTW... The depth in which the staged den floor was found IS IN THE CASE FILES. How about reading it.... No?)
Yes, but nothing about the "den" ever being used.
(Agreed, the official report specifically states that there were no signs of violence either at the tent or the cedar.)
This seems to knock out your theory then. Being hit in the gut with a super energized ball of electricity seems a pretty violent way to go!
Agreed, the official report specifically states that there were no signs of violence either at the tent or the cedar.
(With whom were the hikers engaged in "hand/hand combat?" No tracks were found other than their own and those of rescuers.)
There weren't any tracks of anyone found except for a stretch down the slope from the DP group. None around the cedar, none around the tent, none around the ravine. None from DP group or anyone else
Thank you for that info...I was going by a previous post of LC....
( BTW... The depth in which the staged den floor was found IS IN THE CASE FILES. How about reading it.... No?)
Lyndasez : :I'm starting to think they never used the den, all staged, till I find further documentation otherwise.
You won't find any, there is none.
(With whom were the hikers engaged in "hand/hand combat?" No tracks were found other than their own and those of rescuers.)
The tracks of barefoot hikers...the heat from the body melted snow beneath an left a footprint of ice. Anyone who had proper footwear, their prints could've been snowed over or brushed away.
You won't find any, there is none.
( "move the injured", he's not moving them anywhere, flail chests are extremely painful, each breath really hurts. Plus he has to strip the 2yuris so it might be considered inappropriate for Zina. Rustem might have been injured by then and not much use, as walking wounded getting him back to the tent might be best. Take your point about why not build another fire. Sending Zina back would be the gentlemenly thing to do, she'd get back to her boots and warmer clothing long before him.)
I've experienced being thrown into a wedge of shale by a running stream. Yes afterwards was put on meds to breath. However in life an death situations you take the chance, moving them to safety. Manners an customs don't apply here. Strictly live or die. I'm starting to think they never used the den, all staged, till I find further documentation otherwise.
Look at the position of his arms when frozen in death. Dude looks like he was starving for air or similar.
Leaving the tent would mean a change in elevation. They could have thought it would be better in the valley, but could have actually been worse.
The patholgist estimated that Nicolai lived for two hours but unconcious. Semyon had leather slippers maybe they didn't fit? Maybe Igor didn't need footwear because it wasn't that cold? It is one of the mysteries how Igor had no shoes or gloves but died of cold without any frostbite. Ditto Rustem, Zina had a little fb on her fingers, none on her feet.
@Lyndasez - "move the injured", he's not moving them anywhere, flail chests are extremely painful, each breath really hurts. Plus he has to strip the 2yuris so it might be considered inappropriate for Zina. Rustem might have been injured by then and not much use, as walking wounded getting him back to the tent might be best. Take your point about why not build another fire. Sending Zina back would be the gentlemenly thing to do, she'd get back to her boots and warmer clothing long before him.
The pic of SZ shows a camera case. I don't believe anywhere states there was a camera found in it. I think its stated SZ had more than 1 camera
"@LC - don't sweat it, being an "internet investigator" is meant to be fun."
I insist... It will be fun.
Don't be scared. Hey, while I'm at it... You ever think of getting together with your fellow BL theorist (particularly 8 others) and take a few weeks to explore the DP area in winter? I think you should... The BL gods are calling you.
@KMM,
As suggested, I've read the theory pg of this site. I see a few issues to address.
Firstly, you don't hand over tainted material as is, don't think they addressed that, however it could've been housed in the lining of that old military leg binding that disappeared from evidence.
Secondly, "take photos of Americans!?" No, no, first thing they'd have opened an tossed would be that camera, had they met.
Thirdly, where'd they come from, were they part of village group, police, disguised as mansi...did the hikers run out to help a distressed comrade and we're ambushed?
Yes, that theory leaves questions also
As suggested, I've read the theory pg of this site. I see a few issues to address.
Firstly, you don't hand over tainted material as is, don't think they addressed that, however it could've been housed in the lining of that old military leg binding that disappeared from evidence.
Secondly, "take photos of Americans!?" No, no, first thing they'd have opened an tossed would be that camera, had they met.
Thirdly, where'd they come from, were they part of village group, police, disguised as mansi...did the hikers run out to help a distressed comrade and we're ambushed?
Who knows, have to put the pieces of disinformation together and patchwork backwards.
And shoes should of been given to returning 3 without waiting till rav4 died. you know, voluntarily
@LC - why didn't the returning three remove shoes from the dead? Because they weren't dead. Igor immediately sent Zina and Rustem back to the tent for more stuff whilst he stayed with the rav4. When they didn't return he set off later but was overtaken by hypothermia.
Igor wasn"t wearing shoes either. All of the rav4 would of been dead by then
(Because they weren't dead. Igor immediately sent Zina and Rustem back to the tent for more stuff whilst he stayed with the rav4. When they didn't return he set off later but was overtaken by hypothermia.)
This is making less and less sense. Since Igor is the leader an strongest, he'd first make a roaring fire out of that staged "den seat," move the injured to dry and warm surroundings. Leave Zina to tend, he an Rustem would retrieve supplies.. Seems the only one to really tend would be SZ. Luddy was trying to join the 3 guys when she expired, AK I think had the snapped neck, and the coroner said, I believe SZ could've lasted up to an hour....all these guys with pencil an paper yet nothing recorded...yep no cover up here?!!!
It also amazes me you still refuse the fact humans CAN inflict the types of injuries of the rav4.
Very true, we have to rely on eye witness accounts :-
Meanwhile, the main group found dead Slobodina about 1000 m from the tent, was clothed in a ski suit, cap, socks and one boots. His head was sent to the tent,
...
On hand were abrasions and skin incisions received during falls or breaking branches.
Not fighting...
Igors position.
#1 I never claimed ALL three died traveling down slope, nor did I state NONE of them.
#2 The saplings are small.... The type of stuff you walk right through or next to. And who is to say while laying down it wasn't chosen as 'some' blockage from wind. Tiny saplings are not a deal breaker on the downslope possibility.
Nobody knows.... Not even Nigel
Oss, Svetlana. Don't Go There: Post Mortem (pp. 58-59). LiberWriter.com. Kindle Edition.
Oss, Svetlana. Don't Go There: Post Mortem (pp. 59-60). LiberWriter.com. Kindle Edition.
But only on Rustem, Zina and Igor? No one else. Imo some of it is a candidate for predation.
Except f course the laundry list of hand/hand combat injuries. :/
In addition... I just cannot seem to find someone laying with their feet pointed uphill. Perhaps you can help?.
https://www.la.utexas.edu/users/bump/images/Zilker/People%20on%20Barton%20Hillside.jpg
The last people to see the group alive were the loggers. These people imo in the pictures just seem.... 'off'. Like Deliverance, but 1959 Russia. 8^o The body language and facial looks of these Russian hillbillies give me the creeps! Especially the red headed bearded leader with the Manson 1000yard stare. God only knows what kinda shenanigans these weirdos were up to isolated in the backwoods. Was the group followed by the logger creeps? Did they supply them with anything? Where did the bags and bags of biscuits come from? The flask of alcohol.... thinned with methanol? Literal wood alcohol? People die in their own vomit all the time from that crap. Just food for thought.
Another thing.
Many seem to assume that Rustem, Igor, and Zina were headed BACK to the tent simply because what... Their heads were towards the tent when found? I call BS.
I've always wondered about which direction they were actually going also. If they were going back to the tent to get equipment to help all, somebody would of said, " here wear my shoes"
Rustems hat was just a little pulled back. If I were about to take my last breath and die of numbing hypothermia with my face buried in deep snow, the last thing I would be worried about is fixing my cover. He could have been squirming around face down or literally nose dived for all we know. To say his hat is somehow contradictory to a murder theory is absurd.
Many seem to assume that Rustem, Igor, and Zina were headed BACK to the tent simply because what... Their heads were towards the tent when found? I call BS.
If you are walking down a decent grade slope of a mountain and for one reason or another collapsed in pain, discomfort, exhaustion etc, you wouldn't sit or especially lay with your feet uphill. Its unnatural and uncomfortable to say the least. Its one of things you would naturally do without even thinking about it. You would go down on your butt, eventually lay back, and possibly roll over.
Point being.... NOBODY knows if they expired headed to, or away from the tent. Fact of the day.
Yeah, the cuts, tears, whatever in the tent, and how and when they happened leads to more questions than answers
I think your exactly right. When it comes right down to brass tacks, the BL theory doesn't hold any more water then any other theory. :/ Heck, the cuts in the tent (to me) look exactly like hatchet/axe cuts, and curved shovel cuts. Its really not hard to imagine a flap pealed back making the inside of the canvas now facing outward. You would have one heck of a challenge attempting to cut a semicircle in thick canvas yet alone do it several times unintentionally. :/
The official case files state a flap was pealed back on the windward side.... Thats it! The rest was done when Ivanov ordered them to dig it and its contents out with an axe and shovel, then drag the darn thing over rocks and ice to the helicopter pad. 8^o
@Lightning - hi.
as said i like - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_lightning#Microwave_cavity_hypothesis
hy·poth·e·sis
hi?paTH?s?s/Submit
noun
a supposition or proposed explanation made on the basis of limited evidence as a starting point for further investigation.
"professional astronomers attacked him for popularizing an unconfirmed hypothesis"
synonyms: theory, theorem, thesis, conjecture, supposition, postulation, postulate, proposition, premise, assumption; More
PHILOSOPHY
a proposition made as a basis for reasoning, without any assumption of its truth.
You quoted ONE of several theories as to what BL is. Where is the documentation of powerful microwaves of this nature recorded directly from a real/live BL? If there isn't any... Its only one guess out of many. This is in no way shape or form 'proof' of..... Anything. You also do not have any proof of any 'hot spot'. The 'report' of crunchy ice from a reporter looking for a story. Amazing evidence, or more fake news? You know the Russians are propaganda masters right? I mean... This wouldn't be the first time a 'journalist' embellished something or flat out made up a story. Thats what they do... Always looking for an elaborate story and its common for them to make crap up as they go along.
In reality, there are wonky reports of..... Yeti, UFOs etc. How is this any different?
Don't get me wrong... Its just a huge reach. Did BL do it? Perhaps, but theory is very weak and based on nearly nothing. But possible... Like several others.
Its a 50/50 whether or not they even slashed their way out of the tent in the first place. 'If' they did, BL could be one of several reasons as to why, but it does not explain the casual walking away from it. That's really about it other then some sightings proving BL exists.
(the strange thing is there is a circular hot spot near the tent, diameter about 4 m and it was noticed that snow down the slope was thinner (melted). So there was some sphere object that melted the snow locally and bigger microwave event that melted the snow on the slope)
Rotors of a helicopter style aircraft (circles), heat off the craft? (Melted snow?)
Err it wouldn't have been rushing anywhere on Feb 1st? Only later in May? Even if there was a trickle it would have almost certainly been under a layer of snow/ice. In the ravine the night cold would dominate any meagre day sun.
as said i like - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_lightning#Microwave_cavity_hypothesis
"that the energy source generating the ball lightning is a large (several cubic kilometers) atmospheric maser"
that gives you the general warming.
"ball lightning is a glow discharge driven by microwave radiation that is guided to the ball along lines of ionized air from lightning clouds where it is produced."
that gives you the hot spot.
Like this :-
http://www.viafanzine.jor.br/002imag/03_13/dyatlov4_objeto.jpg .
http://www.viafanzine.jor.br/002imag/03_13/dyatlov4_objeto2.jpg .
Or even non visible in infra red perhaps like this from the Chilean Navy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcNALjt6dBA . 3.00 thru to 5.43.
(So Semyon being a true professional is lying there knowing that it's not good for him so he tries to leave a record of what happened to complement his photographs. But he sadly for us doesn't. )
Where is this nursing station the remaining 3 erected? In the rushing water of the ravine?! What the...an SZ, after sustained bomb-blast injuries is making notes in the water to compliment his destroyed photos! That's dedication! This is turning into a Stephen King movie...wth!?
Ooh, the microwave thing.....remembered!
( The 2 yuris display this level of fb BUT NO ONE ELSE?)
"softened and whitened skin (maceration) of the fingers and feet, sign consisted with putrefaction in a wet environment"<==RAV4
Zina had frostbite, Rustem had skull fractures, Igor protected extremities better? Some dressed better than others...where you going with the frostbite thing, I forgot? Oof!
There was one more person present during the search, a journalist named Gennady Grygoryev. Thanks to him, we have more than the official and emotionless reports from the rescue team, and also some verbal inkling of the atmosphere: We came upon Mount 1079. The weather was calm, and the mountain was as if it was frozen in ice. The snow was compacted. There were ice-covered rock craters all around. The going was so slippery that, as I was carrying the camera and notebook, I almost broke my leg … The corpses were frozen and broken like glass.
Oss, Svetlana. Don't Go There: Post Mortem (p. 59). LiberWriter.com. Kindle Edition.
"What do they add to windshield washer fluid to keep it from freezing? "
Methanol doesn't explain the curious frostbite profile?
Glad you're onboard with drastically altered ice/snow patterns.
Its a wonder they were not found butt naked. Lol Too bad there isn't any anomalies recorded in the records as far as these drastically altered ice/snow patterns are concerned. :/
You know what else melts snow and ice? Quiz time.... What do they add to windshield washer fluid to keep it from freezing?
I'm going to help Nigel out here : it rhyme's with
smethanol :-l
You know what else melts snow and ice? Quiz time.... What do they add to windshield washer fluid to keep it from freezing?
@Lyndasez - yes maam.
@KMM - Admin is a very pleasant lady, have you clicked on the About tab?
Been there, Done that
While microwaves may not heat up the air... Everything else would be. Given the fact humans are mostly water, they would have been cooked like last nights leftovers. The autopsy reports mention nothing of the sort. You would think they woul know!
@KMM - Admin is a very pleasant lady, have you clicked on the About tab?
@KMM - talking to yourself now
Cant argue with you, I don't want the Admin jumping all over me ! :-)
(KMM - talking to yourself now )
Now, now, Nigel, I believe that was an extension of a conversation with me. He or she was excluding a theory, as you do with others...
(Look under theories tab on this site, the first theory explains better then I can.)
Thanks, will check that out.
@Nigel,
(Sounds like i'm ahead of you then... )
Oh lightyears ahead, ole buddy! I'm running against microwaves here! ;c)
Not really they'd been in the freezer until a short time before being found in the stream. They'd lost eyes and an tongue probably from predation but everything else including the internals was there to examine. Google images frostbite to see some graphic images, if they had any of that the autopsy would record it.
Now look at this chart - https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-XTozWAM3-Vw/UtBX1IWPVbI/AAAAAAAACi4/uraJWtO9rZs/s1600/Frostbite+Infographic.jpg .
Based on the above the people running around in their socks should have got fb in minutes, in an hour the tissue would be lost/blackened? The 2 yuris display this level of fb BUT NO ONE ELSE? As said it's really weird... Unless the condition of the snow indicating it has been raised in temp close to it's melt point (thaw/freeze) applied to that night? But then how do the 2yuris get it so bad? Enter the microwave warming theory, this warms the snow (water molecules) but not the air so the snow could be +1C but the air temp and associated wind chill could still be very extreme so if the 2yuris stay up in the cedar for any length of time they get bad fb but 4/5metres below them everyone is ok...
It certainly is NOT BL !
(I'm of the thinking that there was suppose to be a meeting between a kgb agent and western intelligence to transfer some radioactive clothing to the west.)
If I understand correctly, your belief is SZ? was a double-agent, his plan of exchange uncovered and Military elite activated, no survivors...and CIA or MI6 detained, or also destroyed? What was the importance of the clothes?
I'm thinking SZ was working for the kgb, maybe another also. I think Igor would of been made aware of this in order to change the route. Something went wrong and they were killed by the group they were to meet.
The radioactive clothing and what location (city) it came from would tell a lot about what activity was going on there.
Look under theories tab on this site, the first theory explains better then I can.
Oh, no, no, thanks! Was just trying to get a handle on the enormity of undertaking constructing a shelter under severe conditions. Dont think they would see a mansi shelter as the only one I could find looks like an igloo, doubt they'd invade..in pitch dark armed with matches and no lighter, jeez.
Sounds like i'm ahead of you then...
"Bu they weren't, no frostbite on the rav4. Only the 2yuris show extensive FB. Something happening there no one's thought of yet. The 2yuris are an anomaly compared to the others."
The RAV4 weren't preserved in snow like the others, they were severely decomposed, who could tell if they were frostbitten?
As to the Yuris, they all branched off and possibly given jobs, they were wood supply/fire keepers, (possibly where all the wood came from, for that fancy seat in the den?) one fell out of tree, knocked out the other...an off we go...
Lyndasez... I was referencing Lightning. I'm more then happy to help you out however. Iirc the depth was 5m. I can find it again if need be.
I said nothing about any band of killers, my theory is evolving by including or excluding this or that as more info comes in....I'm not married to one scenario as of yet.
But i will make two points to the rudest poster who uses the crudest language commonly with a lot of capitals :-
1. "MANNERS MAKETH MAN".
2. "LESS IS MORE" - https://moz.com/blog/art-of-concision .
You know who you are....
You've confused me then asking where's the roof? It's my assumption it was a snowcave?
"....and whilst we're on it, when accounting your theory, could you throw in a a name or 2, like Zina ...Igor, all these initials, gives me pause de-ciphering it all, thank you."
What about the Yuris? YuriD and YuriK...
"(SZ was found holding notebook and pencil but nothing written apparently, so i win)
How so, I said they had notebooks, you disputed? "
He hadn't written anything, my little joke (not my best perhaps).
"Additionally, now you have to explain speeding car crash injuries which left SZ still holding his, blank notepad!? "
Ah now this is one of the killer facts against the murder most foul theory. I would maintain that after the rav4 are injured the returning three setup a nursing station to try and make them comfortable including distributing clothing from the dead to the living. So Semyon being a true professional is lying there knowing that it's not good for him so he tries to leave a record of what happened to complement his photographs. But he sadly for us doesn't.
Now how do those facts fit with a band of killers running amok? "Don't kill me just yet because i want to leave a little note"?
Ditto Rustem, he his found practically face down in the snow but his little cap is curiously placed right on top of his head http://image.ibb.co/gM5Gz5/712202.jpg .
Was that a random accident or did Zina place it like that as she left him to try and get to the tent? Don't think the nasty killers would do it...
Don't know anything about Higgs boson collisions, my guess is that quantum physics isn't necessary for explaining BL, i think Kapitsa and the soliton theory (good name for a band) are on the right track.
Den could be a mansi hunter shelter.
( BTW... The depth in which the staged den floor was found IS IN THE CASE FILES. How about reading it.... No?)
Don't mean to be the annoying new kid in the class, but I don't see any harm helping each other...I'll get up to speed, meanwhile, any help or direction is appreciated.
I was referring to the width seeing its believed to have been dug sideways by the woodpeckers. Im guessing the search team are the only ones to have dug a shaft downward. You are correct... I do not believe the woodpeckers had the provisions of energy to dig a big cave in packed snow.
@Lightning
Yes yes... Lets ban those whomever you disagree with and/or if they counterpunch when insulted.. What is this.... Communist Russia??
Its not my fault? your BL theory was wide open to be shredded. Its baseless to begin with as I have clearly shown.
(I'm of the thinking that there was suppose to be a meeting between a kgb agent and western intelligence to transfer some radioactive clothing to the west.)
If I understand correctly, your belief is SZ? was a double-agent, his plan of exchange uncovered and Military elite activated, no survivors...and CIA or MI6 detained, or also destroyed? What was the importance of the clothes?
@LC,
Oh boy, let's say the dude in the pic is conservatively 5Ft, there is another 4ft of snow above his head, making the entire height 9ft! Which I dispute was dug by the RAV4...just clarifying.
(All gone quiet here, must be my BL theory stunning everyone into silence...?)
Haha, it sure would be stunning if you actually thought BL was Higgs boson! I'm no student of quantum physics, however, if 2 collided, results would be catastrophic, no?
(The investigation team dug that pit out with shovels!!!)
Oh for pity's sake, I'm disputing accounts the victims built it! Can we stay on the same page.
....and whilst we're on it, when accounting your theory, could you throw in a a name or 2, like Zina ...Igor, all these initials, gives me pause de-ciphering it all, thank you.
(SZ was found holding notebook and pencil but nothing written apparently, so i win)
How so, I said they had notebooks, you disputed? Additionally, now you have to explain speeding car crash injuries which left SZ still holding his, blank notepad!?
?
You do know that snow etc changes after WEEKS... right?
Yes i know it's sloppy police work but you've got to remember that all the morgue photos are from the groups own cameras! That's right they've got a possible murder hunt for five people with the cameras containing film of possibly huge importance and they just use up the remaining frames on taking morgue piccies. This was Russia in 1959.
Now who is telling lies, this is the proper story...
The condition of the snow is one of the curiosities of the DPI.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
The last photos show them digging the base for the tent out of normal snow having skied there.
What the rescuers found was quite different, most of the snow across the whole slope had become extremely icy including the snow on the tent which was so tough to chip through that they damaged the tent. Rescuers couldn't ski to the tent but had to leave their skis and walk carefully the ground was so icy.
This condition is consistent with thaw/refreeze as any skier knows however this is the north east face of a siberian mountain. Also there was a spot near the tent called the "hot spot" were the snow had suffciently melted that it had become corrugated in the high winds and refrozen as clear(ish) ice.
http://www.viafanzine.jor.br/002imag/03_13/dyatlov4_cedro.jpg .
http://www.viafanzine.jor.br/002imag/03_13/dyatlov4_nodoa.jpg .
So signs of things warming up sometime after they took those photos of setting up camp.
Also there is the frostbite or lack of it. Seven of these people were in their socks at best and yet only the 2yuris show serious frostbite. Five people in their socks and no gloves for say two hours in -20C with a high wind chill creating effective temps of say -60C (before they got to the forest at least) they should have been getting FB in minutes in those conditions and serious FB in an hour (it probably took 20min to reach the cedar). But very modest fb in some of them with others having none at all. Really really weird.
So there are signs that this entire area was warmer than normal that night.
This fits with the BL theory in that the whole area was in a cloud of naturally created microwaves which also produced the BL. If you think that's science fiction then checkout - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_lightning#Microwave_cavity_hypothesis . True it is still just a theory and in that sense fiction, but one posited by a very senior physicist and one i'm very interested in hence my interest in the DPI. I think the 2012 photos at the DP are of a glow discharge as the theory has it.
This theory also explains why the returning three all expire within 330m of each other trying to ascend the mountain, i.e. climb back into the microwave cloud. It also gives you suntans and skin damage. In fact the BL/microwave theory is the only one to explain all the facts and curiosities of the DPI. Nothing else comes half as close.
The investigation team dug that pit out with shovels!!! The ravine had been filled up with drift between the DPI and the den's discovery.
ID's entry was in the groups diary, a more formal record of the trip.
SZ was found holding notebook and pencil but nothing written apparently, so i win
I don't put as much into it as you may believe. I'm simply looking at all documented information available. From what I understand (maybe you know different) is that several substances naturally irradiate. Uranium is just what is used when producing plutonium. Either way said substances have to be enriched before reaching substantial levels. The specialist in the official case file didn't utter a single word about getting this naturally as if the run-off water deposited it, but yet quite the opposite. He went into detail regarding washing and how the levels would have been much higher beforehand.
Im more interested in the methanol idea at the moment... Historical context shows a great expansion of oil development at the time and the state had many 'bush drilling' outfits in the area. In the winter, they used enormous amounts of methanol to shove down a well hole to keep it from freezing. In fact, there is evidence showing those very helicopters that transported the bodies had normal operations in the area transporting large amounts of methanol. These model aircraft were literally designed for transporting heavy payloads. They were even instructed to drop their cargo in the outback country in the event of any type accident.... Engine failure, load securement etc...
Who is to say they didn't have a spill of methanol in the area that the woodpeckers waded through causing one or more people within the group to become sick? Through the skin, or through the lugs....either circumstance would have stopped the group in a rather precarious location under unfavorable conditions. Speaking of which, where are the rest of the group members when that photo of them digging in was taken? Where they off sight-seeing in whiteout conditions? Or were they off to the side being cared for? How do we 'know' all was well when the decision to dig in was made?
I can't help but remember being gassed in the Marines for the sole purpose of experiencing what its like to not have oxygen any more and how desperate you become to het away from it. God forbid you have methanol laced clothing fuming up a tent, or you start a fire only to find out it was a really bad idea once the fire ignites your socks etc just a bit too easily. I also can't help but wonder what happens to snow when covered in the substance....
Lots to thinks about...... No tunnel vision for me thanks.
Certainly doesn't look like something dug out from under meters of snow. Where is all the snow that would of been down in-between the branches? looks awful clean from being buried with snow
"They were fairly warm"
Perhaps.... Or, perhaps it was paradoxical undressing.
"Paradoxical undressing is a term for a phenomenon frequently seen in cases of lethal hypothermia. Shortly before death, the person will remove all their clothes, as if they were burning up, when in fact they are freezing."
Perhaps they just thought they were warm.... Eh Nigel? WE JUST DONT KNOW
Say it Nigel... Say after me...
MY THEORY ONLY WORKS IF THE GALAXY ALIGNS JUST RIGHT AND 300 UNKNOWNS ARE TWISTED INTO FACT. ALL FOR THE SAKE OF PRESERVING A NARRATIVE MY INTELLECTUALLY SUPERIOR ASS IS PUSHING.
Say it.... Show me that testicular fortitude.
Welp, to me it looks rather small.... Say 1.5m in British measurements. (Wink) . And the hole/shaft depicted in the photos was dug by the search team. They could have done as Nigel says and dug a cave type shelter from the side of an existing snow bank, but he gets all wonky wonky with the wild BL explosions that throws people meters through away but yet somehow leaves the den flooring of twigs and clothing fully in tact. I don't buy it...... I am very sceptical of the den to begin with..... If it was soo deeply buried, how did the search party know it was even there!?!? I don't buy the trail of clothing lead them to it.... It was buried... Under meters of snow. As in... They follow breadcrumbs that lead into a ravine and miraculously know the exact dead center place to dig? THATS AMAZING!!! I have read reports that the whole den thing was basically made up... Basically the searchers collected twigs the found chopped by the group, and their clothing, then dug a hole and said looky... this is what they must have done here!
The unfortunate fact is... You really cannot put too much into the den conundrum. Too many variables and not nearly enough information. Of course, that leaves an open door to conspiracy theorist that need to fill massive holes in their Swiss-cheese storyline of fictional fantasy.
I told you already... Its common knowledge these hikers were on the trip in the first place to earn another merit badge, and digging in under extreme conditions on the side of a mountain was not only bragging rights, but would render Igor the talk of the club (and possibly the ladies (Zina).
Besides... Its also well known he was running behind getting bogged down in the deep snow of the lowlands. One trek up the backside of that ridge and they were home free skiing around the parameter of the mountain slop. NOT bogged down in the forest they died in.
Most of this stuff is just a matter of common sense Nigel... No conspiracy to document the elusive god particle with futuristic cameras need apply.
For anyone not aware... Nigel found a web page article (BL god particle) where some asshat claims a reporter (city folk) came onto the ridge and noticed the snow was crusty on top (seen it a million times from the actions of the sun), so the author takes a well known picture from the tent location, circles an area in red, and claims it was a BL 'hot spot'!! Wow... Its like wow, but backwards!
Now every chance Nigel gets, he claims there was undoubtedly a 'hot spot' and speaks of it as if it were facts. What a freakin joke. Its the exact same thing with the bird story.... Rescue team caught their dinner turns into dead birds everywhere!! Same stupid article!!! Burnt tree tops and trunks..... Yup, same elaborate hoax stated somewhere obscure that Nigel preaches as fact only because he wants it so badly.
All rubbish, and he knows it.
"No notebooks of men were found by the rescue. There could be written some previous events or recording ongoing situation. These notebooks could have been destroyed immediately or removed.”
(I like to add that there is a certain proof that Sakharova is accurate in this assumption. If one reads Vladimir Aslinadaze’s testimony which can be found here it is pretty obvious that at least Zolotaryov’s notebook was found at the scene. Askinadzi was present there, he is the one who actually found the last 4 bodies. – S.O.)?"
They dug down an found this?! They dug with what, a knife?!
Men don't keep diaries? Who were you quoting from in a previous post about the weather?! Besides I made no mention of diaries, I said the men's notebooks, KGB agents don't take notes?!
@KMM, Thanks, thought I was getting nuts there...been at it all day..
Bu they weren't, no frostbite on the rav4. Only the 2yuris show extensive FB. Something happening there no one's thought of yet. The 2yuris are an anomaly compared to the others.
KMM, Some of your posts are very amusing...can't tell, are you having fun with my logic?
I'm of the thinking that there was suppose to be a meeting between a kgb agent and western intelligence to transfer some radioactive clothing to the west.
Maybe that was it's purpose, to be the beacon. I'm just giving a reason for it being on the outside of the tent. Don't forget there were 9 people inside that tent sleeping, if each one needs to find the flashlight in the middle of the night that's 9 times through the night. Better to leave it outside in a nominated place?
"Well if it's a cave, what happened to the roof, and why are the 9ft walls perfectly chiseled?"
Err they dug down a few metres to find the den? That's how they dug the walls?
"....and off the top of my head, Zinas pockets were turned out, seems to me someone was searching them...where are the men's notebooks? "
Men don't keep diaries, it's a girlie thing.
@KMM - knife/axe - a lot of the witness statements contradict each other, 50m or 500m etc etc.
The den floor looks well constructed for a temporary shelter.
Better constructed then a few people freezing to death (in the grip of hypothermia) could accomplish
The den floor looks well constructed for a temporary shelter.
"So why go up there? Why not head for the forest? "
Perhaps they got a gander at that backhoe style den and said...let's not camp on possibly secret or hostile turf!
http://gipotezi.ru/sekretnye-materialy/katastrofa-u-gory-holatchahl/6
A knife you say Nigel ?
"Got a feeling SZ wouldn't agree with you. Imo it has to be a snowcave not a more open structure, too cold and NTB's gloves were in his pocket and AK's jacket unzipped. They were fairly warm."
Well if it's a cave, what happened to the roof, and why are the 9ft walls perfectly chiseled?
....and off the top of my head, Zinas pockets were turned out, seems to me someone was searching them...where are the men's notebooks?
Added when Ivanov was in a hurry to close the case !
"the last photos show they were in storm, high winds, whiteout conditions.
So why go up there? Why not head for the forest? "
They weren't lost, ID recorded in the diary the previous night his doubts as to this plan - "It is hard to imagine such a comfort somewhere on the ridge, with a piercing wind, hundreds kilometers away from human settlements"
It's really wierd, their plan was to go up in that weather and camp just under the ridge, not knowing how long the bad weather would last...
When the snow began to fall off gradually and the scraps of clothes were revealed, the search engines once again surveyed the terrain 75 meters from Cedar - that ravine where the landslide had descended.
Down the creek, at a depth of more than 2.5 m, cut clothes were found lying on an ordinary heap of branches (possibly collected for a fire), which for some reason will be called "decking"
http://gipotezi.ru/sekretnye-materialy/katastrofa-u-gory-holatchahl/6
four seats is from the photograph of the den?
RS is my guess.
KEYWORD : IN MY OPINION ! more guessing by Nigel !
So why go up there? Why not head for the forest?
The official report says YK's knife was found nearby so they had a tool to cut the wood with which to dig into a snowbank.. The photo of the den suggests 4 seats and it maybe RS was there to. I'd say more like 7x7ft.
Where do you get this? from Ivanov's ramblings? About all reports I've read say all but the penknife was found in the tent.
Got a feeling SZ wouldn't agree with you. Imo it has to be a snowcave not a more open structure, too cold and NTB's gloves were in his pocket and AK's jacket unzipped. They were fairly warm.
" They didn't know how long the snowstorm would last, it could have been days... So this a key piece of the mystery imo."
That den was not dug by them...sorry, they may have fashioned a seat but that's all I'll give you..
N.B. "GLO" stands for "Globular Light-emitting Object", it's not immediately obvious and is a bit confusing.
@Lyndasez
"Den looks like the product of a backhoe"
some stout branches in that picture. Maybe WW2 vets know more about this than you or i.
they did this in a pitch dark storm!?
not if there was an object as bright as the full moon up on the hill or a missing torch or maybe from the fire.
If this BL is the sort that hovers in place awaiting prey..
BL isn't sentient?
This is madness!
Funnily enough the BL theory doesn't get everyone's vote....
Den looks like the product of a backhoe, they did this in a pitch dark storm!? You can't be serious! If this BL is the sort that hovers in place awaiting prey...why not dress accordingly an crawl commando style to safety?! This is madness!
"The key to all this is why'd they leave the tent orderly it seems without proper clothes...but have the presence of mind to leave a beacon back????? ", Ah that's the beauty of the BL theory. Fits all the facts here like a glove (almost).
They had to flee it hovering just outside at the hotspot.
But once a little way away they could relax and walk for the forest to beat the windchill.
Whilst the BL hovered at the tent they couldn't return.
When it left they'd need a beacon to assist returning.
When they got to the cedar it was still back there so they made a fire.
Probably SZ disagreed with the fire and recommended a den as his WW2 experience.
The BL moved down the hill and exploded in the ravine with enough force to throw the rav4 several metres and kill birds, maybe leaving RS injured. AK's autopsy is cause for concern here. The deformed neck (snapped) would fit the above but the pathologist never investigated it?
ID, ZK and RS are only survivors, they tend to the injured stripping 2yuris and moving clothing from LD to SZ.
BL now gone so ZK and RS try and return to tent for supplies but they're climbing into the microwaves and find it debilitating, RS collapses first, ZK puts his cap on the back of his head and continues but also expires.
Later ID realises that they're not returning and tries to return but expires. N.B. RS and ID are not found in the classic foetal position of dying from cold.
The only bit that doesn't fit perfectly is what happened to the 2yuris, they have to die and be turned (stripped) sometme later after the lividity has frozen in. It would be nice to say the explosion threw them out of the tree onto the fire but the it doesn't suit the timeline, has to be something else earlier.
But Svetlana, who worked with Ivanov, I believe, said, his first instinct was murder till he saw the RAV4...whatever that means...
Why not just keep quiet about it?
All fair points but there are the facts, SZ attached to the group even he had nothing to do with the university, they went up to the ridge in a snowstorm even though ID records in the diary the previous night he has concerns. So what was going on? Why on earth would any group of experienced skiers elect to spend the night above the treeline is those conditions instead of staying with the planned route? They didn't know how long the snowstorm would last, it could have been days... So this a key piece of the mystery imo.
Who it to say those lights weren't secret military aircraft, missiles, comets..?? Are they harnessing BL now for some scientific reason? The KBG would've sent out experts to investigate...with REAL EQUIPMENT ...not just dinky cameras, come on..
"On February 1, a snowstorm moved in, and the group lost their way -- instead of maintaining their heading toward Dyatlov Pass, they veered west, toward the peak of Kholat Syakhi. At some point they realized their mistake, but instead of retracing their path, they chose to camp on the mountainside and wait out the storm."
@Lyndasez - err, yes but the authorities knew where it was? Who says they veered off course?
You guys keep dissing the BL theory but all i hear from you is nonsense about thyroids and hangars that almost certainly weren't built in 1959....
@Nigel, This place didn't appear on maps, plus they veered off approved course...
Probably thrown on it by an explosion....
Err uranium comes from natural sources?
Lemme guess... To you, 'throw' is 100% fact she was blown up by a fireball. Am I right!?!
500euros say I can toss your butt into that ditch and onto the boulders at the bottom..... Lets do this...
Whatever you do... Ignore the part about impact force... Fall.... HELLO MCFLY! HELLO..... Have you seen the boulder she was straggling?
But my main point is.... You said I was wrong, when in fact.... YOUR stupid book was wrong, and you along with it. You need to burn that blasted thing!!!
'MANY TIMES HIGHER PRIOR TO BEING WASHED'.... The clothing was not just radiated from natural sources.
The position of the internal organs is regular, the pleural cavities contain up to one and a half litres of liquid dark blood.
and
Based on the forensic examination of the corpse of Ms. L.A. Dubinina I think that the death of Ms. Dubinina was caused by massive haemorrhage into the right ventricle, multiple bilateral rib fractures, and internal bleeding into the thoracic cavity. The said damage was probably caused by an impact of great force causing severe closed lethal trauma to the chest of Ms. Dubinina. The trauma was caused during life and is the result of high force impact with subsequent fall, throw or bruise to the chest of Ms. Dubinina.
Oss, Svetlana. Don't Go There: Post Mortem (p. 215). LiberWriter.com. Kindle Edition.
The pleural cavities contained up to one litre of liquid dark blood.
and
Based on the examination of the corpse of Mr. Zolotaryov, 37 years old, I think that he died due to multiple fractures of the right ribs with internal haemorrhaging to the pleural cavity while at a low temperature. The above-mentioned multiple fractures of Zolotariev’s ribs with haemorrhaging into the pleural cavity were caused in vivo as an effect of a high-power impact to the chest of Zolotariev at the moment of his fall, squeezing or throwing.
Oss, Svetlana. Don't Go There: Post Mortem (p. 215). LiberWriter.com. Kindle Edition.
in vivo means whilst alive. He died from internal bleeding together with the cold
No, he doesn't. I've read a lot about Charlie over the years & this laughing innocent boy, esp. with the snow on his face, looks nothing like Manson. Not sure how you came up with that one but rest assured.......no one has eyes like Charlie but Charlie. There is nothing evil looking about Igor. Just more of your b.s.......
He died from the crushed chest. The last 4 died from their massive injuries caused by homicide.
@L.C. I find this offensive as there is nothing written about her being a tease. Yuri was NOT her "ex lover". Zina was still a virgin as well as Luda. Zina wrote in her diary that Yuri had been "holding hands with a girl from the other group" & how she felt jealous. Zina had nothing to do with Yuri wanting to come along. She wrote in her diary she wasn't sure how she'd feel. Zina still had feelings for Yuri. So she wasn't "stringing him along at all".
She like the attention of boys.... if ya know what Im sayin. No, LC, I don't know wtf you're trying to say.
I disagree with this & find it offensive to Zina as well. There is no truth in this. Her & Yuri went out a few times & he quit seeing her. She was a virgin as I stated b/4. She was irritated with Igor because he made her sleep next to the stove the nite b/4. Perhaps it was her turn.
Anna, this is certainly littered with possibilities. Given that the Kyshtym Accident, a nuclear incident happened in Sept '57 in southern Urals an no one knew it till the '80s.
I've read the notebooks for the men are missing, or sewn up in a Top Secret file, so I think they are hiding many things.
You assume reports of lights are ball-lightning how is what I do different?
I think not, it can be seen from satellite, would've been huge to the hikers. We're they supposed to go off course? I'm sure they gave a map of their expedition for approval. Everything is up for supposition in this saga. You think they're gonna register schematics of this bunker?!
I posted this a couple of days ago. You blew it off as being previously covered......
A mysterious object was discovered near the site, where hikers died when trying to cross the Dyatlov Pass. Amateur radio engineer and researcher of paranormal phenomena Valentin Degtyarev believes that the structure that was found on the site may have a connection with the tragedy that took place there in the winter of 1959.
It goes about a construction 25-30 meters long and 10-15 meters wide. The construction was found at a distance of ten kilometers from the site, when a group of hikers died in 1959. The construction, Degtyarev believes, could be a part of a bunker that had been built in the Ural mountains during the times of the Cold War.
The researcher assumes that the group of hikers could find themselves on the pass the day when neutron weapons were tested. This may explain the presence of radioactive substances on the clothes of one of the victims. The death of the hikers could be a reason, for which the tests were wrapped up. The underground building was blown up and mothballed. The upper part of the bunker is still visible on satellite images.
The Dyatlov Pass is considered to be one of the most mysterious areas of hiker routes in the Urals. In February 1959, nine skiers of a hiker club were killed near Mount Otorten under unclear circumstances. Igor Dyatlov was the leader of the group. The bodies that were subsequently found on the site shocked forensic experts: most of the people froze to death, whereas traces on the bodies of other victims indicated that they had died violent deaths.
The pass was named in memory of the hiker group led by Igor Dyatlov. Some researchers believe that the hikers died as a result of an explosion of a ballistic missile.
According to ex-governor of the Sverdlovsk region, Senator Eduard Rossel, the tragedy on the Dyatlov Pass still remains strictly classified information.
Pravda.Ru 08.14.2017
This is interesting given your Phd in physics or was that the Wolfeman?!
@Nigel, quite possibly from the underground bunker (neutron bomb testing) they recently found, mothballed, but was active in the 50s. It was 6 miles from their campsite or..YK brought some of his work home with him..on clothes...working with plutonium.
@Nigel, I 'think,' LCs complaint is, they didn't test the thyroid gland, and come on, that contamination on the clothes is whoa high after washing!
On February 17, I and Vladimir Shevkunov got up at 6.00 in the morning to prepare breakfast for the group. After splitting the fire and making everything necessary, they waited for the food to be ready. The sky was cloudy, there were no clouds and no clouds, but there was a slight haze, which usually dissipates with the rising of the sun. Sitting face to the north and accidentally turning his head to the east, he saw that a milky white blur about 5-6 lunar in diameter and a series of concentric circles consisting of a row of them had spread in the sky at a height (...?). It resembled a halo around the moon in a clear frosty weather. I made a comment to my partner, that's how they painted the moon. He thought and said that in the first moon there is no, and besides, it should be on the other side. From the moment we noticed this phenomenon took 1-2 minutes, how long it lasted before
Sheet 212
and how did I initially do not know. At this moment, at the very center of this spot, an asterisk flared up, which for a few seconds remained the same size, and then began to increase sharply in size and rapidly move in a western direction. Within a few seconds, she grew to the size of the moon, and then tearing off the smoke screen or clouds appeared a huge milk disc of milky color, 2-2.5 lunar in diameter, surrounded by the same rings of pale color. Then, remaining the same size, the ball began to fade until it merged with the surrounding halo, which in turn spread out across the sky and went out. It was dawn. The clock was 6.57, the phenomenon lasted no more than a half minutes and produced a very uneasy impression. Initially, we did not pay attention to it, but then, when the glowing disk itself appeared, they were amazed. Personally, I had the impression that some heavenly body was falling in our direction, then, when it had grown to such enormous dimensions, a thought flashed through, another planet came into contact with the earth, that now a collision would follow and nothing would remain of all earthly things. We were already awake for more than an hour, so we could retire after sleeping and not believe in hallucinations, but in the end everything was as hypnotized and only when
(illegible)
"THIS PARAGRAPH IS THE SUMMARY OF THE FINDINGS ON THE CLOTHING ONLY!!!!
THE SUMMARY OF THE TISSUE SAMPLES ARE AFTER THE READINGS ON THEM, AND IT STATES NO SUCH NONSENSE!"
1) The solid biosubstrates studied contain radioactive substances within the natural content determined by Kali-40. 2) The individual samples of clothing examined contain several inflated quantities of radioactive substances or radioactive material, which is a beta emitter. 3) Detected radioactive substances or radioactive substances when washing clothing samples tend to flush, i.e. are caused not by a neutron flux and induced radioactivity, but by radioactive contamination with beta particles. Chief radiologist of the city of Levashov 27.05.1959 (Signed)" "
Err what's your point here, the findings are that the tiisue samples are normal? Clothing is inflated.
http://image.ibb.co/cD65g5/0_985f3_d09d8b6e_XL.jpg .
But what about these two? .
http://image.ibb.co/hH2BM5/0_985f5_c4906940_XL.jpg .
http://image.ibb.co/hdg5g5/0_985f4_259eeac9_XL.jpg
http://image.ibb.co/jVx315/0_98569_91789bbc_XL.jpg .
Awe...... so CUTE! lol .
http://image.ibb.co/c5VO15/0_98568_2b98da0f_XL.jpg
http://image.ibb.co/fcBo15/dgfrjs.jpg .
But what about this one? Taken at the same time.
http://image.ibb.co/ftO1M5/0_b2144_70347d91_XL.jpg
Nothing fell through the cracks unless Ivanov wanted it to #1. #2, Burn marks on live wood trunks would be visible for a very long time. Your excuse is ridiculous at best. Black/white photography wont work....... gimme a freakin break, WEAK! "
@Loose Cannon, I agree, the naivety Nigel labors under is puzzling to say the least. Black n white photos are of no use, neither are rulers, how bout a pic of the burn with a ruler beside it?! Measurements, photos, any visual that can aid in proving a theory is critical!
The statement regarding.....
"The absence of appropriate instruments and conditions in the laboratory made it impossible to perform radiochemical and spectrometric analysis to determine the chemical structure of the emitter and its radiation energy."
Is taken from this paragraph in its entirety...
"Experimental washing of clothes showed that the contamination
is removed, the percentage of washing varies from 30% to 60% (washing clothes was done in running cold water for 3 hours). When determining the type of radiation, it is established that the activity takes place due to beta particles. Alpha particles and gamma quanta were not detected. The absence of appropriate instruments and conditions in the laboratory made it impossible to perform radiochemical and spectrometric analysis to determine the chemical structure of the emitter and its radiation energy. Radiometric measurements of solid biosubstrates were carried out on a B-2 installation (No. 2554) in a lead house with a BFA-25 meter. The unit was measured using a strontium preparation with an activity of 1) 7000 rpm, 2) 2000 rpm. The results of measurements of samples from No. 1,2,3,4 are summarized in Table No. 1 (see on the back)"
THIS PARAGRAPH IS THE SUMMARY OF THE FINDINGS ON THE CLOTHING ONLY!!!!
THE SUMMARY OF THE TISSUE SAMPLES ARE AFTER THE READINGS ON THEM, AND IT STATES NO SUCH NONSENSE!
" Control samples were obtained from the forensic medical expert of Dr. Renaissance. The samples of the tissues of a person who died in the accident of a
motor vehicle in the city of Sverdlovsk, also showed the presence of a natural radiological element of potassium-40 in approximately the same
amounts as in Table 1.
Thus, the results of the studies in Tables 1 and 3 do not exceed the averaged data on the content of radioactive substances in human organs and may be due to
natural radioactive Potassium-40. Radiation by type refers to the Beta-
particles. Alpha particles and gamma quanta were not detected.
CONCLUSIONS:
1) The solid biosubstrates studied contain radioactive substances within the natural content determined by Kali-40. 2) The individual samples of clothing examined contain several inflated quantities of radioactive substances or radioactive material, which is a beta emitter. 3) Detected radioactive substances or radioactive substances when washing clothing samples tend to flush, i.e. are caused not by a neutron flux and induced radioactivity, but by radioactive contamination with beta particles. Chief radiologist of the city of Levashov 27.05.1959 (Signed)"
Here is THE ACTUAL CASE FILE!!!! and I dont give a rats ass who ordered it. As you can see... your book grossly reworded it! .
https://sites.google.com/site/hibinaud/home/zaklucenie-eksperta .
So they didnt do a radio'chemical' test to determine the chemical structure of the emitter.... so what! It was beta and measured.
Under the orders of Investigator Ivanov, an examination was made of the clothes of some expedition members, in order to determine if there was any radioactive contamination on the clothes or the dead bodies. To order a radiological examination was by no means a regular part of the investigative process. The examination was conducted on May 18, in a poorly equipped city laboratory, almost ten days after the last funeral. Vladimir Levashov, the main radiologist of Yekaterinburg, conducted the examination. Levashov’s report reads: ‘The absence of adequate equipment and the conditions in our laboratory did not allow us to conduct radiochemical and spectrometric analysis for defining the chemical structure of the emitter and measuring the energy of its emission.’ It’s possible that in May, Ivanov received some information or an order to conduct this examination. It’s also possible this was done on his own initiative. If it had been ordered from above, the examination would have taken place in the best possible laboratory, which, at that time in the USSR, would have been in a military institution. As it was, Ivanov contacted the rescue party member Albert Kikoin whose brother, Isaak Kikoin, was in charge of a national laboratory for studying radiation. Levashov was warned that this investigation was to be a matter of secrecy and he signed a document to confirm he wouldn’t release the information to anyone but the investigator. He was provided with all the clothes of Zolotaryov, Dubinina, Kolevatov, and Tibeaux, as well as bio-culture samples of their bodies.
Oss, Svetlana. Don't Go There: Post Mortem (p. 103). LiberWriter.com. Kindle Edition.
"As I understood it there was no bruising (bleeding) caused by the horrific crushed chest, otherwise he died from it, which is it, since there's ...ahem, no coverup, he died from freezing or crushed chest?"
Yes there wasn't any bruising but there was internal bleeding. When you go to a restaurant and order ribs, you're getting the tissue surrounding the actual bone to eat. When the rib cage suffers a massive fracture as in these injuries then that tissue is ripped and bleeds whilst the heart continues to beat. So a pathologist is trained to look at how extensive the trauma is and collect the volume of blood and estimate the how long the bleeding was before the person died and it stopped. From memory one of them had a litre of bleeding which takes a while.
"They didn't wait because parents and other students and interested parties were gonna conduct their own search! Too bad they didn't!"
Well first they wouldn't be going anywhere without state permission and even if they did get it (which they wouldn't because the state had concerns about defection), for a prolonged investigation they would need a supply chain. Pretty expensive business definately best left to the resources of the state.
"But if they wanted to hide the cause of death, why not wait until the summer? They'd come back to find just skeletons spread all over the mountain by predators.
What are they going to measure that isn't known?"
They didn't wait because parents and other students and interested parties were gonna conduct their own search! Too bad they didn't!
How bout depth of snow, tent, distances, evidence found near bodies, cuts on ski poles, cuts on tent before they added to them...let's not get into lack of photos...forget it, the Donner party was better documented!
Im sure it must be some sort of university hiking badge. He she is again....
http://image.ibb.co/h1KFW5/0_f323c_e3e13956_XL.jpg
These clothing articles were glow-in-the-dark radiated prior to being washed in the creek. Makes you wonder why the first 5 were not tested. Or were they and the results were hidden..... Its also interesting to note the helicopter crew refused to fly out the bodies of the rav4 until proper radiation protective body bags were obtained. The rav4 bodies were not tested as of yet, so how on earth would they have reason to suspect radiation???
This one is interesting, if someone know what those white badges on each means? http://image.ibb.co/hvgYYk/0_8d29e_3656f85b_XL.jpg
Oh to be sure there was fighting goin on, both ladies make mention of it in diaries. That “unknown compelling force," was themselves...something worked them pretty good.
Question #4. What do you think, what could be the degree of contamination of individual objects, if you take into account that prior to research they had been in the running water for about 15 days.
Answer: It can be assumed that the contamination of individual garments was many times greater, but here one must take into account that clothes could be washed unevenly, that is, with varying degrees of intensity."
THEY WERE IN THE STREAM A LOT LONGER THEN 15 DAYS..... You do the math.
"Because the pathologist would have spotted the lack of internal bleeding with the two chest fractures (unless he's lying as per coverup)."
As I understood it there was no bruising (bleeding) caused by the horrific crushed chest, otherwise he died from it, which is it, since there's ...ahem, no coverup, he died from freezing or crushed chest?
I am not surprised you are not paying attention....
"I'm not aware of this, they had a vat of alcohol for the staff to wash with."
Someone refuses to read the autopsy reports and the sworn testimonies.
"Probably assumed freezing."
Show me another case or study stating THREE TIMES THE SIZE is normal.
"The radiation testing was done privately by a friend on his own initiative EVEN though he had been ordered to wrap up the case.... Afaik it was only on the clothing. The pathologist took tissue samples for further analysis but i don't know of any radiation testing."
There is a lot you are not aware of.... to busy with head up ones own ass i would presume.
https://sites.google.com/site/hibinaud/home/zaklucenie-eksperta
"Nothing wrong in "Missing presumed dead", interesting that she wouldn't sign("
Unless of course your the head of an investigation regarding 4 missing people. How does he know they are dead? Alot of presuming if you ask me. FYI, there were TWO other signatures required on that document other then Ivanovs..... Neither would sign off on it!
"Not sure black and white photography would have been much use. Could have been a practical issue, bad weather, then fell through the cracks"
Nothing fell through the cracks unless Ivanov wanted it to #1. #2, Burn marks on live wood trunks would be visible for a very long time. Your excuse is ridiculous at best. Black/white photography wont work....... gimme a freakin break, WEAK!
"My guess is that they did take them and they've been lost."
Yeah yeah.... lost... thats it. Ivanov must have lost them! Add that to the list then...... I call BS
"Once they had the bodies it was wrapped up as it was costing a fortune."
I guess thats why it was closed to the public for 3 years.... right nigel... Tell me, today in London if they were to find 4 mutilated bodies.... would the case be closed the same day? Unbelievable
"Not an easy one to solve"
Not for anyone that came afterwards.... you know why?... IVANOV .
Nigel, you displayed a rather weak and pathetic set of excuses, and you know what they say about excuses. Its somewhat concerning watching you twist truths and invent others.
Maybe he had drunk a bit too much vodka.
#2 Lack of investigation photos etc
Probably the fault of the other guy.
#3 He arrived at the tent AFTER it had beed fubared by in-computation college kids, made an on-the-record report of its state with spicifics, then says that another investigator was there before him so go ask him, the other guys account is very different.
You would have to produce facts for this claim.
#4 He spent all but 5min at each site.
Apparently he didn't visit the site when the rav4 were found which i've remarked upon. But this could have been a hiearchy thing, he had a team of men there full time so they would do the footwork. Don't forget that Ivanov was ordered to Moscow during this investigation and came back "a changed man" there was good reason for him to be fearful for his future if it was a state coverup. I'm not saying it was of course but he would be watching his back pretty hard.
#5 The rav4 bodies were thoroughly washed with chemicals to hide something
I'm not aware of this, they had a vat of alcohol for the staff to wash with.
#6 The Aortas were measured, but he never investigated as to why 3 times larger then normal
Probably assumed freezing.
#7 Nearly every organ of the Rav4 were tested for radiation levels except THE ONE ORGAN that hold the highest concentration.... the thyroid. 200% higher concentration and this isnt 'new' information. He either covered up the results OR he purposely excluded them from the official order. They tested what he asked them to test.... nothing more.
The radiation testing was done privately by a friend on his own initiative EVEN though he had been ordered to wrap up the case.... Afaik it was only on the clothing. The pathologist took tissue samples for further analysis but i don't know of any radiation testing.
#8 He has been all over the map as to who, what, and why..... wonky at best.
Rolls eyes.
#9 The forensic expert and criminalist expert Churkina refused to sign off on the official autopsy, but Ivanov signed..... AS OF TODAY THE AUTOPSY REPORTS ON RAV4 ARE INVALID!. ALL THREE WERE SUPPOSED TO SIGN!! IVANOV WAS NOT INTERESTED IN THE EXPERTS OPINION AND THE TWO EXPERTS REFUSED TO PUT THEIR NAME ON A BOTCHED REPORT! https://image.ibb.co/dFTBya/sme.jpg #10 Ivanov made an official report that all 9 hikers had died..... BEFORE THE RAV4 were found!!!!
Nothing wrong in "Missing presumed dead", interesting that she wouldn't sign, S Oss states that she thought the head pathologist was "afraid".
#11 In 1990 he wrote an article stating that trees had burn marks.... yet THERE HAS NEVER AND WILL NEVER BE ANYTHING ABOUT THAT DOCUMENTED IN THE OFFICIAL REPORTS AND NOTHING OF THE SORT WAS EVER DOCUMENTED>>>>>> GE EITHER BOTCHED THE INVESTIGATION IN 1959, OR HE IS A FREAKING LIAR.... TAKE YOUR PICK.
Not sure black and white photography would have been much use. Could have been a practical issue, bad weather, then fell through the cracks.
#12 HE ORDERED A TEAM TO DIG OUT THE TENT AND ITS CONTENTS WITH AN AXE AND SHOVELS AND THEN DRAG THE TENT OVER ROCKS AND ICE TO THE HELICOPTER.... WITHOUT A SINGLE PHOTO BEING TAKEN OF ITS CONTENTS OR THE LAYOUT AND CONDITION PRIOR TO REMOVAL....... ID LIKE TO POP THIS IDIOT IN THE DING-DONG!
There is one photograph of the tent prior to removal which begs the question why not more? My guess is that they did take them and they've been lost.
#13 He closed the case PREMATURELY!
Once they had the bodies it was wrapped up as it was costing a fortune.
#14 He didnt solve the case.
Not an easy one to solve...
I do believe there was plenty among the group to squabble over. From the numerous diary entries I post a while back to the indications I see Zina being a big tease and likely leading Igor on..... to top it all off she brought here 'ex lover' Yuri along for the trip. I think she was still fairly close to Yuri and getting the same string-along as Igor. There are loads of prior DPI photos of Zina and Yuri on previous hikes etc. From what I understand, Yuri was the only boy she ever brought home to meet her parents.
To this house as a matter of fact....
http://image.ibb.co/hurdzQ/0_8d294_685ffdb3_XL.jpg .
Some shots with Zina and Yuri..
http://image.ibb.co/mWr0Dk/0_8d2a1_3e13d855_XL.jpg .
http://image.ibb.co/jVn7tk/0_f325a_a42ccb17_XL.png .
http://image.ibb.co/hvgYYk/0_8d29e_3656f85b_XL.jpg .
She like the attention of boys.... if ya know what Im sayin.
http://image.ibb.co/bZUbm5/0_f3241_ace5f508_X5_L.png .
http://image.ibb.co/hx0Stk/0_f3233_413ede19_XL.jpg .
I would also expect in the 1950s for this skimpy dipping in front of the boys to be pretty damn risque. An event like this likely got around among the boys.... Pretty sure thats not a 1950s bikini.
http://image.ibb.co/fBmxR5/0_8d2b1_5263cc95_XL.jpg
http://image.ibb.co/iJ0M3k/footprints1.png
Nigel... here are the conditions the morning of on the backside of the ridge. Weather must have changed on them pretty rapidly!!.
http://image.ibb.co/b8ioG5/les.jpg .
http://image.ibb.co/c0MfUQ/cats2_600x266.jpg .
From the act of examination of corpses. Cadaveric spots.
Doroshenko Yuri - purple-purple disposed on the rear surface of torso and neck limbs .
Kolevatov Alexander - crimson-purple richly arranged on the rear right side of the trunk and the extremities .
Krivonischenko Georgiy - purple-lilac color, located on the back of the neck of the body and of course first.
Dyatlov Igor - bluish-red colors are located on the rear surface of the body of the neck and limbs .
Slobodin Rustem - bluish-red color abundantly located on the back of the neck and the torso and limbs .
Dubinin Ludmila - bluish-gray c / pveta disposed abundantly on the rear and side surfaces of the neck, trunk and extremities .
Kolmogorov Zynaida - bluish-purple disposed on the rear surface of the trunk .
Zolotarev Semen - purplish-gray color, abundantly located on the back of the neck, trunk and extremities .
Tibo Nikolay - purple-green color located on the rear-side surfaces of the thorax, neck and limbs.
What does it mean? Why Vozrozhdenniy in all acts of the MEA wrote the same location of the spots on the cadaver of dead bodies, regardless of the positions, in which they were found?
Perhaps, on the bodies it was not simple cadaveric spots, but is written in the JMO could not. The reason for the lack of cadaveric spots on the bodies of the dead might be bleeding of internal organs or blood clotting due to strong radiation.
All these facts are contrary to the media the conclusion that the death of the children was caused by hypothermia and point to signs of poisoning or strong exposure."
I want to draw your attention to another important fact - the description of the media acts very important body, which from the effects of radioactive iodine (131J) suffers in the first place - the thyroid gland .
In the first group of hikers, whose bodies were discovered in the early days of search operations:
Dyatlov Igor - "... The horns of the hyoid bone intact. The thyroid gland is at the cut fleshy red ...
Kolmogorova Zinaida - "... The hyoid bone is intact. The thyroid gland in the section bluish-red color ... "
Slobodin Rustem - "... The horns of the hyoid bone intact. The thyroid gland is the cut of red ... "
Doroshenko Yury - "... The horns of the hyoid bone intact. The thyroid gland in the fleshy section, reddish ... "
Krivonischenko Georgiy - "... The thyroid gland in the fleshy section, dark-red color. The horns of the hyoid bone intact ... "
The second group of hikers, whose bodies were found in a ravine in the creek, under a 3-meter layer of snow ex.
Kolevatov Alexander - a description of the thyroid gland in the media there is no "... The neck is long, thin, deformed in the area of the thyroid cartilage ...."
Dubinina Lyudmila - description of the thyroid gland in the media there is no "... The neck is long, thin. Soft neck tissue flabby to the touch. When the feeling is determined by the neck unusual mobility of the horns of the hyoid bone and thyroid cartilage . ... "
Zolotarev Semen - a description of the thyroid gland in the media there is no "... The hyoid bone is intact. ... "
Tibo Nikolay - a description of the thyroid gland in the media there is no "... The hyoid bone is intact. ... "
Iodine-like substance, extremely selectively deposited in the thyroid. After hitting 131J in the human body, the radioactivity of thyroid radioactivity may exceed all other tissues of more than 200 times!"
#2 Lack of investigation photos etc
#3 He arrived at the tent AFTER it had beed fubared by in-computation college kids, made an on-the-record report of its state with spicifics, then says that another investigator was there before him so go ask him, the other guys account is very different.
#4 He spent all but 5min at each site.
#5 The rav4 bodies were thoroughly washed with chemicals to hide something
#6 The Aortas were measured, but he never investigated as to why 3 times larger then normal
#7 Nearly every organ of the Rav4 were tested for radiation levels except THE ONE ORGAN that hold the highest concentration.... the thyroid. 200% higher concentration and this isnt 'new' information. He either covered up the results OR he purposely excluded them from the official order. They tested what he asked them to test.... nothing more.
#8 He has been all over the map as to who, what, and why..... wonky at best.
#9 The forensic expert and criminalist expert Churkina refused to sign off on the official autopsy, but Ivanov signed..... AS OF TODAY THE AUTOPSY REPORTS ON RAV4 ARE INVALID!. ALL THREE WERE SUPPOSED TO SIGN!! IVANOV WAS NOT INTERESTED IN THE EXPERTS OPINION AND THE TWO EXPERTS REFUSED TO PUT THEIR NAME ON A BOTCHED REPORT! https://image.ibb.co/dFTBya/sme.jpg
#10 Ivanov made an official report that all 9 hikers had died..... BEFORE THE RAV4 were found!!!!
#11 In 1990 he wrote an article stating that trees had burn marks.... yet THERE HAS NEVER AND WILL NEVER BE ANYTHING ABOUT THAT DOCUMENTED IN THE OFFICIAL REPORTS AND NOTHING OF THE SORT WAS EVER DOCUMENTED>>>>>> GE EITHER BOTCHED THE INVESTIGATION IN 1959, OR HE IS A FREAKING LIAR.... TAKE YOUR PICK.
#12 HE ORDERED A TEAM TO DIG OUT THE TENT AND ITS CONTENTS WITH AN AXE AND SHOVELS AND THEN DRAG THE TENT OVER ROCKS AND ICE TO THE HELICOPTER.... WITHOUT A SINGLE PHOTO BEING TAKEN OF ITS CONTENTS OR THE LAYOUT AND CONDITION PRIOR TO REMOVAL....... ID LIKE TO POP THIS IDIOT IN THE DING-DONG!
#13 He closed the case PREMATURELY!
#14 He didnt solve the case.
Thats off the top of my head and I am SURE there are other!......... Your daddy was a full blown IDIOT or, he intentionally botched, covered, mislead, and otherwise created wild goose chases.
The entire body holds alot of water, but yet the autopsies said nothing about being cooked from the inside out, so you can reasonably rule out microwaves.
1. fact 1
2. fact 2
and so on.
The bodies were frozen solid for many weeks, the expansion of the brain is known to crack skulls. The aorta contains a lot of water (blood) so it will expand a lot. As said before microwaves can heat liquids and make them expand...
AND NOT A SINGLE SHRED OF INTEREST AS TO WHY THEIR AORTAS WERE THREE TIMES THE SIZE THEY SHOULD BE!
Earlier, I noted that the actions of student search engines who parried the tent and injured her, no one controlled, so for the investigation it was incorrect to investigate the state of the tent in the Lenin room.
Thus, during the study of the tent, as prosecutor Ivdel Tempalov VI claimed, there were no incisions in the tent.
However, it is worth noting that on the windy side, ie. from the side of the spur, the tent was torn in the middle part, and, as Tempalov noted, it was brought at first glance by dense snow. This is the only place where Tempalov discovered damages in the tent, which means there were no cuts from which the hikers were escaping from the tent, there was no tent!
Sections and huge holes in the tent on the other side of the spur appeared after Tempalov VI. He examined the tent and instructed the students to collect it and all the things and load it into the helicopter. The tent was frozen to dense snow, so the students cut out and pulled it out of the frozen snow and ice.
Then, according to the testimonies of the search engines, the tent dragged to the helicopter to deliver it to Ivdel for research.
Those who saw the tent after the search engine students "worked" with it attributed the cuts made by the search engines to Igor Dyatlov's group. Then, based on this false "fact", a legend was invented that Igor Dyatlov's group cut the tent during its departure.
In fact, the tent was intact and the group left it in an organized manner. Things were all brought into the tent, and the entrance to the tent was closed.
The tent itself was not torn by the wind, and only from one side, from the side of the spur, it was pressed down by dense snow, resulting in a large rupture, the reason for the appearance of which just needed to be thoroughly explored ..."
Would ya imagine that!!..... dense snow build on one side pressing down causing a rupture, along comes the students ripping, tearing, shovels and axe!
I said it once, Ill say it again. For all we know they never 'fled in panic' to begin with and its HIGHLY unlikely they were 'observing' anything outside the tent in whiteout conditions.... remember this?? http://image.ibb.co/fsd69F/dtyjdty.jpg
We disassembled a ten-man tent covered with a hard snow with shovels!
According to the former judge of Ivdel in 1959 Novokreschenova GV. Korotaev V.I. said that ... "the tent was covered with snow, and the snow was very hard. I had to use an ax, cut it with an ax and, of course, crippled it."
At the same time, there was no system to free the tent from snow. First they took out a few stale blankets, then buckets, a stove, two or three sacks of biscuits, shoes and other things. Things were stacked in backpacks, and dragged the tent to the search engine camp.
Naturally, after such manipulations on the tent, sections and torn pieces could appear."
BINGO..... a complete mishandling of evidence. NOW YOU TELL ME NIGEL... If this tent was flap flap flappin in gale force winds for weeks and a chunk tore back starting at an existing tear/hole OR a student (amateurs first on scene) ripped it open (you admitted they did) and the section was PEALED BACK..... You get after that tent digging it out of hard snow with an AXE AND SHOVEL..... THE CUTS WILL NOW BE ON THE INSIDE OF THE CANVAS THAT WAS PEALED BACK AND COVERED IN SNOW!!!! WOW... Freaking amazeballs!!!
Right.... I see whats going on here. The items were removed while DIGGING IT... LIKE WITH A FREAKING SHOVEL!! Talking about eye level cut.... Just what is the shovel-head width comparison to those slits Nigel..... Hmmmmmmm?? Think McFly!
The tent was discovered on the slope of the peak "1079", 100-150 m from the top to the northeast. At first glance, the tent seemed snowed, but when we looked at it, we saw that the tent on the entrance side held on to the central peg and was well reinforced with ropes. Another of its edges, too, stayed on the wheel, but since The middle of the tent was covered with snow, and the skylights of the tent on the windward side were severely torn, then the edge sank and was under the snow."
You read that?? "skylights of the tent on the windward side were severely torn" WINDWARD SIDE WAS TORN
So with all this talk of high ass winds etc and statements like this..... You telling me there is NO CHANCE of the darn tent ripping from flap flap flappin in the winds for WEEKS rubbing on god knows what inside?? I call major BS man, MAJOR BS! And dont give me the "oh there was eyelets cut to watch the BL" horse crap.... you have no clue where, when or why those smaller three horizontal holes were made! I told you.... READ THE DARN DIARIES! For petes sakes.... here it is again!
DIARY OF ZINA
It was much easier to go yesterday without backpacks, snow, snow, snow, snow on the banks froze. rivers snow snow.
Lunch was an hour at 4 pm
"After dinner I did just one transfer and stopped to rest. I SEWED UP THE TENT. We lay down to sleep. Igor all the time was rude, I just did not recognize him. I had to sleep on the wood near the stove."
This damn tent was riddled with holes and in constant need of sewing repair!!!!! Folding, dragging, wet freeze, unfold, rip, oops.. Its also common to store anchoring gear for the tent folded up with it!
After such actions the students, of course, the tent lost its original appearance, and the consequence of no trace near the tent could no longer detect. The snow around the tent was strewn with search engines, and the tracks were sprinkled ...
In the report of the inspection of the tent, Tempalov, in particular, noted that the stretches of the tent on the south side were intact, while the stretches of the tent on the north side were torn off and the whole second half of the tent was covered with snow. The tent was installed on a level platform excavated by students, with a windy side it was torn in the middle part. In his testimony, Tempalov did not say a word about the tent sections, because there were no incisions!
Tempalov wrote that in the right corner of the tent near the entrance lay food and a flask empty from alcohol or vodka (the smell was felt) and that he had the impression that the students drank vodka and had a snack. This was the first version and an attempt by the investigative authorities to falsify the cause of the death of hikers.
In the blood of students, alcohol was not detected (methyl alcohol - not alcohol, but poison)."
"Above all things lay a ski-slit cut into several pieces, apparently, the northern end of the tent was strengthened on it. Decide on the spoilage of the stick, given that in the group there were no substitutes it is possible only under special circumstances."
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA....... The stick (ski pole) was used as an anchor on the Northern end of the tent!!!! Actually was North West but I digress again!!! THE POINT IS..... NO FREAKING TRIPOD FOR BL VIDEO FOOTAGE. Read the GD case files!!!!!
"Under the tent put 8 pairs of skis down attachments. Thanks to the dense snow cover, the tent was installed very firmly. Everything is covered with already clammy snow, except for the southern skate, fortified on a ski pole and tied for a pair of skis. Under the northern ridge there was no stick."
And you thought it was a fancy field expedient tripod for the undercover KGB fancy high speed/low drag futuristic camera thats waterproofed with special BL lenses !!!
wrong wrong wrong..... just admit that you were WRONG!!
Try giving them to me again, might have missed them before (rolls eyes).
Because the pathologist would have spotted the lack of internal bleeding with the two chest fractures (unless he's lying as per coverup). The internal bleeding gives him a rough time as to how long they lived after the trauma. LD circa 15min, SZ longer. Incidentally that fits with the transfer of clothing from LD to SZ. Assuming the autopsy is genuine then they died of those injuries.
But if they wanted to hide the cause of death, why not wait until the summer? They'd come back to find just skeletons spread all over the mountain by predators.
What are they going to measure that isn't known?
I don't think you're factoring the high winds and cold, it's a tough place to look for a needle in a haystack.
Also Ivanov came on the scene late after they'd fired the first guy. By then any evidence had been recorded or lost.
@Nigel, They were in no hurry to investigate, you've done more indepth work on your BL theory. They used no measuring tools at the scene, probed with ski poles, were seriously lacking in investigative photos, compromised evidence, cutting it..on and on. Then fed preposterous theories and disinformation.
They tossed out things like some super force crushed bones without surface bruising...
How about a moose used them as footpath post mortem?! ...
@Nigel, haha, Yes, indeed, my friend and why do you think that is? They're probably data-mining this sites info to see what sticks!
I already gave you like 6 examples of how he fubared the investigation. Whether it be on purpose, because he is a moron, or both.
You didnt even let me get to the thyroid gland crap!!!!
Q. Why do it if they knew where the bodies were buried?
A. Because they didn't and they had concerns wrt defection. That's why they couldn't wait until the summer and go back for the skeletons. They just didn't know what had happened.
Lyndasez - give me your case for a coverup. What are the facts?
Nigel is asking for facts ? strange, he argues BL without any facts
@Nigel, "According to ex-governor of the Sverdlovsk region, Senator Eduard Rossel, the tragedy on the Dyatlov Pass still remains strictly classified information."
Pravda.Ru 08.14.2017
Red herrings ..left an right!
This site has pretty good info..on blunders an whatnot, hard to navigate:
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=ru&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fmurders.ru%2FDyatloff_group_1.html&edit-text =
"Investigator Ivanov was not too lazy to get the number of the newspaper "Tagilsky Rabochiy" dated February 18, 1959, which - for a minute! - was not sold in Sverdlovsk and cut out a note about an unusual celestial phenomenon. The investigator did not leave any explanations for his manipulations in the case, thus allowing the interested parties to independently puzzle over the hidden logic of his behavior."
@Anna Yordanova, you are correct! Unfortunately the lead investigator, this knucklehead, Ivanov is a student of Russian cover-up and an disinformation. He pretty much threw out the rule book and did everything he shouldn't, if he did anything, based on accounts I've read. Facts are few and far between...
Nigel, You neglected to add, "under a powerful microscope."
Like I said, without me seeing the entire negative, it's difficult to determine.. the key is, are we looking at a negative (unprocessed film) or positive (processed) true image.
@Nigel, the film, if it contained actual photos, to me, they've been ruined (over-exposed) this is based on the few snippets of them posted, if that's any comfort.
@Loose Cannon, thanks for sharing those sweet finds, awesome work!
@Nigel, the film, if it contained actual photos, to me, they've been ruined (over-exposed) this is based on the few snippets of them posted, if that's any comfort.
@Loose Cannon, thanks for sharing those sweet finds, awesome work!
@Nigel, the film, if it contained actual photos, to me, they've been ruined (over-exposed) this is based on the few snippets of them posted, if that's any comfort.
@Loose Cannon, thanks for sharing those sweet finds, awesome work!
Got that right.
Based on this they had already gone too far west with the 31 Jan camp/labaz.
Soooo, on the 30th jan they were already commiting to this change of plan even though ID had his doubts about it.... I'm seeing a purpose to all of this...
Dream on...
Flowing Ivanov.... A full blown idiot. AND HE DIDN'T SOLVE THE CASE. but I guess neither will you, so its fitting. What kinda kangaroo court you guys have over there anyhow??!?
You act as though BL is the only theory with evidence whatever.... THE BL THEORY IS 100% BASED ON FALSE FACTS AND CONJECTURE. IT IS NO BETTER THEN ANY OTHER THEORY. And THAT is a fact.
A huge chunk? of your theory just vaporized before our eyes regarding your holy grail three balls bs. Your already doubling down. Wow
Left late.... Did you bother to see when they stopped the delay before or take in account how tired they were, OR how long it takes to setup the tent etc the night before and the morning after? Nope.... Completely blinded by AL contributing factors. Your only going to see what you want to see. You cannot be helped... Its like a disease.
Remember, we don't need make a theory fit or explain your BL false facts. Example... When someone says 'they were murdered', you say 'how does murder explain the three heads exposure'. Complete nonsense.
So a good point but inconclusive?)
@Nigel, that is manipulated film. Examples:
?... convert your Lubitel+ into a 35mm machine with the included “Lubikin” set – allowing you to snap vertical panoramic images with exposed sprocket holes.?
16mm film fed through a 35mm gate (so you can see the sprocket holes in the film) on a Sony film scanner, hand-cranked for variance in speed.
Kodak Brownie Target Six-16 with expired roll of 35mm Kodak Portra 160NC. I thought I would shoot sprocket hole photos with this camera rather than respooling 120 film...
The process is pretty easy -- just cushion the roll of 35mm with foam, customize your 120 take up spool with some format reducing rubber bands, and tape the heck out of the camera.
A general rule of thumb when winding between shots is to go 34 clicks. Frame spacing will be tight at the beginning of the roll, and then you'll have gaps as you get towards the end. Nicolai over at Photon Detector has an excellent winding chart for getting more even frame spacing and being efficient with your film. Some people even tape a winding chart to the back of the camera. Just cross out each exposure as you go.
And if you're tired of carrying a changing bag to unwind your 35mm film in complete darkness, Randy over at Holgamods sells a 35mm Holga conversion that allows you to rewind the film in the camera. I can't wait to do some sprocket Holga night photography!
You see if i was there i'd be saying something like, "Guys and girls, we've got to get up early and have a big hike today staying in the forest where the trees will negate any whiteout from the high winds, that way we can catch up on the plan.".
Its a well known little fact they were behind schedule and taking that slight deviation would have kept them out of the deep snow and harder to traverse wooded areas of the lowland. This kept them in open terrain and the following day would be mostly down-hill. It also cut the corner off the route which would additionally make up some time. This isn't rocket science Nigel.... No conspiracy required.
The last entry in the diary (by the group leader) strongly supports the view that they were deviating from the planned route through the forest to use the ridge instead.
So there's a piece of evidence = FACT 1.
FACT 2 = this decision would involve significant discomfort as the stove couldn't be used. Plus there was risk from such an exposed camp. Very high winds etc as ID indicates in his entry.
So we have two FACTS that support the theory that they chose the ridge even though it would be uncomfortable and potentially unsafe.
So now all it takes is to find the unstated motive for this decision. I opt for photographing the lights. You are welcome to posit another theory (good luck).
http://image.ibb.co/ffUK65/0_86fb7_1cb8fd62_XL.jpg .
http://image.ibb.co/cOvgKQ/0_86fb8_b01a455_XL.jpg
http://image.ibb.co/cyBtYk/0_68e1f_62e29b45_XL.jpg .
http://image.ibb.co/bNJ7tk/0_6dc62_7935de82_XL.jpg .
http://image.ibb.co/meU8zQ/0_6dc79_610b3b6d_XL.jpg
Zero evidence what so ever..... completely fabricated conjecture. I have also proven without a doubt Ivanov couldn't distinguish his ass from a hole in the ground.
"there was a light there that night and there is a group of photos from several cameras that could support this"
'Perhaps', but unfortunately that light (if even accurate report) could have literally been..... anything and is in no way shape or form proof or evidence thats what killed 9 people. What other pics are we to believe caught BL now? What 'group'?
It would be good to know the magnification used on the Eagle1 photo as that's a key piece of evidence as it matches the meteorologists report, as is that Ivanov records in that interview that a light was seen near Otorten the night of Feb 1-2.
Whether Ivanov believed in fairies/aliens/yeti isn't important to the BL theory, what's important is that he can see that they went there to photograph a light, there was a light there that night and there is a group of photos from several cameras that could support this (but agreed there's ambiguity).
Still looking good for the BL theory imo
I have downloaded likely hundreds of photos. Mainly of the actual diaries, and the kids 'official papers' if anyone would like my to upload a particular diary, or someones documents to my photosharing, and post them here... just let me know.
In addition, I came across several pictures of the group members bot before and during that I doubt everyone has seen.... if interested
Oh, quality color scans of the tent fabric file also.
The interview I read.... he was scared shitless.
"For me the important point is that he (as the police detective on the case looking at all the evidence) connected the DPI with fireballs"
Nigel... you have ONE biased book 'hinting' at this, while on the other hand ALL other reports have him in clearly the Alien category. I know this book must have had a profound effect on you, but you just have to let it go. Come into the light and back down to earth... no more tunnel vision, no more 'BL does it all' fantasy. Right now your in a state of denial, this denial is self evident by a continuation of mentality doubling-down on a false narrative in efforts re-convince your own self conscious.
Nigel Evans 16-09-2017 23:31 (GMT)
"It looks like the three heads photo is a blow-up and edited version of the famous frame 33 - http://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/thumbs/Krivonischenko-camera-film1-33.jpg .
So looks like i've got to backtrack here"
Nigel.... I dont 'need' to tell you I told you so, but on a positive note, I hope you have learned a valuable lesson, can come away from this more open to ideas, and willing to actually look into other possibilities in equal to BL.
This falling apart of the three heads crap is only one part of several wonky aspects of the BL theory that dont hold water. Believe me, I wish it were as easy to definitively conclude it was BL so I can go on with researching something else and may there be some closure to those involved, but this may never be so.
For me the important point is that he (as the police detective on the case looking at all the evidence) connected the DPI with fireballs, not his beliefs in their composition/source. He was a police detective not a physicist.
Lev Ivanov, followed the extra-terrestrial line of explanation. Most policemen tend to be hard-nosed types who have seen it all by the time they have reached the end of a long career in the police and Ivanov had probably seen his share of the worst of human nature in a large city like Sverdlovsk. He could have stuck with one of the more non-contentious theories such as an avalanche, with regards to the Dyatlov deaths, but he chose to keep to the line of them being killed by something out of this world.
Support there for my "debilitating force" theory wrt the returning three. They got it stronger.
So a good point but inconclusive?
http://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Zolotaryov-camera-02.jpg
This .... text format/order of last post got jacked up.
http://image.ibb.co/gGnfeQ/11.jpg
meh.
http://image.ibb.co/jwGHR5/12.jpg
meh.
http://image.ibb.co/nCMdYk/13.jpg
meh.
http://image.ibb.co/k0dgm5/14.jpg
meh.
http://image.ibb.co/dyLu65/15.jpg
meh.
http://image.ibb.co/bEAu65/16.jpg
meg.
http://image.ibb.co/mz2VeQ/17.jpg
meh.
http://image.ibb.co/hD2JYk/18.jpg
BEHOLD>>>> THE LAST EXPOSURE IN THE ROLL.
http://image.ibb.co/ju77R5/19.jpg
Who is yo daddy?
Are you ready?.......
Oh for the love of Sam Houston!!!!
This photo.. http://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/thumbs/Krivonischenko-camera-film1-33.jpg
If memory serves me correctly from reading the russian forum. There is no doubt it was the last exposure on one of the cameras film roll and its a basically unanimous consensus this was produced in the photo lab when clicking the shutter on loaded exposure. They would have had to snap the shutter before winding up the roll and opening it up.
They have pics the original negs....... Ill try and find them.
One moment your talking about the super top secret BL watching expedition where the gov 'just had' to have a group of kids get the USSR KGB internal state spy into the backwoods and there "There was no clear reason to be afraid of the lights"
NOW, your referencing the 'guy in the open pit mine' light in the sky report. Im sure you read the part about how he basically shit his pants because it was soooo terrifying .....
Im just wondering which it is.... Shit a volvo turn your hair white terrifying, or pet Johns pluffy kitty kitty innocent no reason to fear?
EITHER
you'd have to get hold of the "The Way of Lenin" article and translate it..
OR
trust a Russian journalist who quotes from the article...
So looks like i've got to backtrack here
Not taken from inside the tent...
Yes, as far as the other cameras are concerned, but SZs was the only one specifically labeled when found and investigated. Also, the Russian forum dedicated to the DPI, they clearly have them the others figured out and sectioned.
So you ARE looking at the SZ specific negs...
^^^^^^ SEE^^^^^^^^ Its called integrity!
I think it would have been more of a shift, but meh. The position they were found looks relative to their injuries.
It's just a vid of the Sex Pistols playing your favourite track..."
It literally says "not avail in your country"
Anywho...... they stink. God saved my ears!!!
@Lyndasez
You make a great point! NO LIGHT SOURCE!
Robot from 3 yrs ago has those photo's from SZ camera to back up his theory
It's just a vid of the Sex Pistols playing your favourite track...
"The fascist regime..."
link no workie in US!
photographs in YOUR opinion.
Probability is an area of mathematics !
http://web.math.princeton.edu/math_alive/3/index.shtml
@LC - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqrAPOZxgzU
I thought so. GOD SAVE THE QUEEN!!
Yes, TX ..... usmc vet.
@KMM - ask your son Happy
I called him last night to ask about arguing "probabilities" with you. He said i could but it would take a lot of time, math, backed up with sources, etc....
@KMM - "your BL theory has company:"
Now you're just taking the piss Happy
Maybe so, but don't you think SZ's photo's fit that theory also ?
Now you're just taking the piss
Robot
3 years ago
""I have thought of the unfortunate and unexplained deaths of these students for some time and as Spock said in Star Trek – quoted from Sherlock Holmes “… when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth…” I originally thought that it may have been the Russian Army with concussion bombs that were dropped on them by accident. The Army had used this location for secret tests. Some mention that the Army secretly arrived at the crime scene 1 week before the rescuers found the bodie.
This could answer a few of the mysteries but not all!
Why their tent was on the side of the mountain and not logically down at the tree line for shelter and fire wood?
The Army could have moved the tent up the mountain to change the crime scene. Why there was radioactive material on some of the clothing and why they were not wearing any protective clothes for the harsh climate? The Army could have changed their clothes and confiscated clothing which showed being radioactive. Though all good explanations, I do believe there is only one explanation that holds up to all the facets of this case! Yeti or Abominable Snow Man - Encounter! On research I found that the small tent used was not their main tent. They had left supplies at a base camp and were using this very small tent for an excursion. What was their purpose for climbing the Ural mountain range? I googled Russian news broadcast for the past year (1958) and found an interesting account of Yeti encounters on this range. That year a number of local Mansi tribe people disappeared. After an investigation, the Russian Government banned all further reporting on the Yeti with threats of incarceration. These students may have been acting as investigating reporters and photographers and needed a cover to conceal their true purpose. The one person they added to their close group was a guide familiar with the territory. A note on a printed paper in their possession was scribbled “From now on we know that the snow men exist”. Although they used guns to protect themselves in the wilderness for previous trips (pictures show), they did not carry any this time in case they were stopped and questioned. Whatever attacked them in their tent did not bite or claw but had extreme power to crush. A similar attack at Yale BC in the 1800’s by some gold miners who claimed to have captured a baby Sasquatch and in Washington State 1920’s of an attack:
http://www.bigfootlives.com/ ...
In 1946 Cultus Lake BC a newlywed couple disappeared from their cabin with only large footprints found surrounding the cabin. Case Scenario The illogical pitching of their tent in the open rather than down at the tree line may have been due to a scare from the locals at the last settlement. Towns’ people warned them about reindeer having been found dead in this area. They may have felt more secure making camp in the open rather than down within the trees. After setting up camp they would have taken off their boots and put their heavy outer wear outside to dry. Due to the limited space within the tent they more than likely stored this gear along with their skies and pack sacks in the overhang where the chimney exits. They then entered the tent using their long johns and tent slippers inside and had supper. Shortly after supper, two of the men went outside to urinate (documented) with a flashlight, which they left on the roof of the tent (documented) and a lighter and cigarettes to have a smoke. It was written in their diary that the women did not want them smoking in the hotel rooms or tent. While outside they were attacked and forced to flee down to the forest for cover. There they built a fire for warmth, to notify the others and to keep any predators away. On hearing the commotion outside the tent, 3 of the students with a flashlight went to help and were also attacked. Unable to reach their outerwear at the back of the tent they too fled down the mountain. The Yeti then centered their attack on the 4 remaining students left in the tent. The Yeti being unable to open the tent door or cut through began to pound on the center of the tent while the students inside sliced their knives back through the tent in defense. It’s been reported that Yeti can use sticks and may have poked through the open slits of the tent with one of the ski poles as it was documented that numerous knife cuts were found on one of the ski poles. The Yeti attack temporarily stopped when they saw the fire down at the tree line and the 3 students heading towards it with the flashlight (documented and found on this trail still in the on position). It has been reported that the Yeti are not afraid of fire or light. The Yeti then caught the 3 students before they could reach the tree line. Yeti use their large powerful arms to club and then bear hug their quarry until subdued and unconscious, all similar injuries reported on the students. Forensic Investigators state that when a body is suffocated the blood does not pool back to the organs, but stays at the extremities. The discoloring of the skin seen on the students at their funeral could have been caused by this injury. Seeing that the fire was attracting the Yeti the 2 students at the tree tried to frantically put it out, it was reported that one of these student’s hands were burnt by this action. Next they proceeded to climb a tree. The report claimed they had climbed the tree to observe if their tent was still there to return to. The problem with this statement is that it was after sunset, in winter, in Russia. I googled if there was a full moon that night and it shows that there was no moon visible, so it would have been pitch dark. The only reason to climb a tree at night would be to try and elude a predator. Sasquatches have been reported with the ability to climb trees. One of the students was found a few hundred feet from the tree still clutching a branch, as though he had been dragged down from the tree. When the remaining 4 students of the group did arrive at the tree, they found their companions dead. They proceeded to remove what clothing they could to keep warm rather than return to their tent and what was back there. They then went to a ravine and dug a snow cave for shelter. Unfortunately the Yeti were waiting for them in the forest and pursued them, cornering them at the ravine some short distance away. One problem with the Yeti theory is that no foot prints were ever found. The explanation is that it was sometime after the encounter, in winter, in a valley known for wind. The Yeti/Sasquatch have a very large bipedal foot, much like a “Bear Paw Snow Shoe” which leaves a very flat shallow print. These prints could easily have disappeared with weather conditions. The final explanation may be the hardest to believe and that is - Why have no further sightings or findings been made of Yeti in this location?
With all of our technologies, these mountains and the world in general have become a lot smaller, but the Universe is immense and unknown. There were unexplained lights in the sky seen by other observers. Strange creatures have been reported all over the world with similar globe light occurrences (Kentucky Goblin Encounter,Chupacabras, Ogopogo, Lochness Monster, and other such things). Many documented encounters with Sasquatch have been reported with similar globe lights seen around their vicinity. Could it be that there are time portals throughout the Universe and these creatures accidentally pass through them? One such strange occurrence happened in Manila in 1593 where a guard was suddenly transported to Mexico City.
http://www.psychic101.com/teleportation-learn.html
Could UFO’s seen in the area be trying to relocate these Yetis back to their rightful locations?
Could a nuclear blast such as the 1957-58 Russian accidental nuclear explosion at Kyshtym ( just a few miles south of Oblast Swerdlowsk where these students were) cause a rip in our universe?
This accident reportedly killed 1000’s of people and contaminated a 100 square kilometer area with high level radiation.
Could the radiation on their clothing have come from physical contact with these entities ?
Here is this photo again, Its surely evidence of UFOs, ball lightning, OH WAIT, ITS A LIGHT BULB !
https://www.wired.com/2014/08/wtf-just-happened-shoot-the-moon/
Something profound in that, somehow defines you. Can't think why...
@KMM - "WHY ARE WE EVEN SEEING THEM?"
Very good point, as i understand they have been made avaialable (leaked?) to one of the key DPI players in Russia who was part of the original rescue team many years after the fact who has made them available on the internet. - http://www.dyatlov-pass-incident.com/valentin-yakimenkos-study-groups-negatives/ . It may be Ivanov never saw them..
There is the chance of fakery here of course.
However we are discussing these pictures because you said that the burden was one me to prove they are real. I have shown that many of those images are supported by independent witness statements and recent visits to the DP for which you have no answer (don't blame you btw). The supporting evidence for these images is way above coincidence.
The meteorologist, Tokareva, gives the most detailed description of the fireball: To the Director of the Ivdel Police Department 15.03.59: At 6:50 local time a comet was seen in the sky. The tail was similar to that of dense cirrus clouds. Then the star became free from the tail, became brighter, and flew away. It began gradually to swell and became a large ball surrounded in mist. Inside this ball a star began to burn, from which, first, a crescent was formed, and then an entire ball, but not as bright. The large ball began to fade and became like a blur. It disappeared at 7:05. The star moved from the south to the northeast.
Oss, Svetlana. Don't Go There: Post Mortem (pp. 100-101). LiberWriter.com. Kindle Edition.
Now if anyone wants to contest the similarity of the above then they need to ask themselves are they being ridiculous..."
Sooo..... a BL report at a dif time and area. AWESOME! Now, how does this prove a fireball killed the group?
Ill make it easy for you.... it DOESN'T
BINGO!!! ITS ALL BS
"Don't think there's an easy way to resolve that one."
No Nigel.... its clearly out out of the exposure area entirely.
@Raitelis
"2. Something caused the hikers to cut thru their tent"
Not judging by the actual case files.... There is plenty of evidence suggesting the search crew dug out the tent and its contents with an axe and shovels which cut the canvas on the inside surface when flaps WHERE PEALED BACK making the inside....now facing outward.
"Mansi likely argued w/ the hikers in order to keep them out of a Sacred area"
Pretty sure it is NOT a sacred area.
If that damaged film is so important why didn't the OFFICIAL investigation pay any attention to it?
WHY ARE WE EVEN SEEING THEM? If they were taken by a KGB agent, on a SECRET MISSION, (while getting 8 others killed) WHY aren't they locked away somewhere in some secret archive?
awaiting your next "could of been, might of happened this way"
2. Something caused the hikers to cut thru their tent
3. Something caused the hikers the flee the safety of the tent quickly, without even much clothing.. Theory...the Mansi likely argued w/ the hikers in order to keep them out of a Sacred area....even warning them of snowmen...indeed one of the hikers may have made a passing reference to Snowmen being real, possibly indicating they were being shadowed...likely by Mansi....on the night of the incident Mansi began making loud and weird seemingly inhuman sounds..trying to impersonate snowmen...this caused the hikers to cut holes in the tent to see what was making the sounds...as the sounds grew closer, louder and more threatening some or even most of the hikers panicked and ran for it...as they regrouped... one of them climbed a tree to see if they was really anything out there even as others began to freeze to Death..the few that survived after taking the clothes of the recently dead were finished off by the Mansi ..remember the Mansi aren't stupid...they made the murders look consistent w/ their own legends of Snowmen attacks...this is especially obvious w/ the removal of the tongue of one of the girls..something even modern Mansi are quick to point out...is the signature of a snowman attack...this fits the core facts of the case...there are other aspects of this case that have been added later that are likely fictional add ons...Case Solved??
One man's blurred object is anothers emulsion degradation? Don't think there's an easy way to resolve that one.
------------------
A mysterious object was discovered near the site, where hikers died when trying to cross the Dyatlov Pass. Amateur radio engineer and researcher of paranormal phenomena Valentin Degtyarev believes that the structure that was found on the site may have a connection with the tragedy that took place there in the winter of 1959.
It goes about a construction 25-30 meters long and 10-15 meters wide. The construction was found at a distance of ten kilometers from the site, when a group of hikers died in 1959. The construction, Degtyarev believes, could be a part of a bunker that had been built in the Ural mountains during the times of the Cold War.
The researcher assumes that the group of hikers could find themselves on the pass the day when neutron weapons were tested. This may explain the presence of radioactive substances on the clothes of one of the victims. The death of the hikers could be a reason, for which the tests were wrapped up. The underground building was blown up and mothballed. The upper part of the bunker is still visible on satellite images.
The Dyatlov Pass is considered to be one of the most mysterious areas of hiker routes in the Urals. In February 1959, nine skiers of a hiker club were killed near Mount Otorten under unclear circumstances. Igor Dyatlov was the leader of the group. The bodies that were subsequently found on the site shocked forensic experts: most of the people froze to death, whereas traces on the bodies of other victims indicated that they had died violent deaths.
The pass was named in memory of the hiker group led by Igor Dyatlov. Some researchers believe that the hikers died as a result of an explosion of a ballistic missile.
According to ex-governor of the Sverdlovsk region, Senator Eduard Rossel, the tragedy on the Dyatlov Pass still remains strictly classified information.
Pravda.Ru 08.14.2017
Compare the claimed photos of DP lights in 2012 :-
http://www.viafanzine.jor.br/002imag/03_13/dyatlov4_objeto.jpg .
http://www.viafanzine.jor.br/002imag/03_13/dyatlov4_objeto2.jpg .
With :-
http://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Zolotaryov-camera-04.jpg .
http://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Zolotaryov-camera-05.jpg .
http://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Zolotaryov-camera-07.jpg .
Seem similar? Bit of a coincidence even for the nonBLievers?....
Q.E.D.2. Arguing with you guys is just too easy...
SZ went to the DP with a "non recreational camera" and it is claimed that Eagle1 (Eagle2 is a blowup) is part of what he shot that night - http://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Zolotaryov-camera-08.jpg .
Compare it with the report from a highly credible witness in the same period.
The meteorologist, Tokareva, gives the most detailed description of the fireball: To the Director of the Ivdel Police Department 15.03.59: At 6:50 local time a comet was seen in the sky. The tail was similar to that of dense cirrus clouds. Then the star became free from the tail, became brighter, and flew away. It began gradually to swell and became a large ball surrounded in mist. Inside this ball a star began to burn, from which, first, a crescent was formed, and then an entire ball, but not as bright. The large ball began to fade and became like a blur. It disappeared at 7:05. The star moved from the south to the northeast.
Oss, Svetlana. Don't Go There: Post Mortem (pp. 100-101). LiberWriter.com. Kindle Edition.
Now if anyone wants to contest the similarity of the above then they need to ask themselves are they being ridiculous...
Note that's not the only similarity compare - "The large ball began to fade and became like a blur."
with
http://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Zolotaryov-camera-02.jpg .
http://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Zolotaryov-camera-03.jpg .
http://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Zolotaryov-camera-10.jpg .
Q.E.D.
Sheesh... and you talk about people not reading YOUR posts. Wow.... its like 'wow', but backwards.
Absolutely, as said below there could have been a basket of reasons for adding him to the group. My theory is that he or they wanted to include getting some photos of the lights. See how easy it is when we agree
@KMM - Sounds like a capitulation
Springbank 15, i like my whiskey like my women, dark, sweet and with a hint of engine oil...
Is that blended whiskey ?
I know you would really like to twist things to suite the BL theory Nigel but this is over the moon loco sheet man.
What Nigel is NOT telling everyone, is that the COMMUNIST GOV RAN UNIVERSITY instructed the leader of the college search team to IMMEDIATELY REPORT ANY INDICATIONS THE DYATLOV GROUP MAY HAVE BEEN ATTEMPTING TO DEFECT TO THE US THROUGH THE NORTHERN REGIONS.
Justified or not.... the state had their suspicions and likely had PRIOR to the group setting out. SOUNDS LIKE A REASONABLE PURPOSE FOR SZ TO BE ADDED TO ME!!
KMM is right! You need to prove the photo is real or accept the original case file stating 'damaged'. I would expect the experts that opened the damn thing would know what 'damaged' means!
3 butt-cheeks, heads, fingers, fabric rolls, flashlight, lantern, lab exposure before removing film..... DAMAGED!.. YOU HAVE NO DAMN CLUE WHAT THE TRUTH IS..... nobody does. You can only state an opinion, and your opinion does not constitute FACT.
Again, if its a real exposure.... it could just as easily be a flashlight which could indicate murder/s. But its not real... I have seen the actual evidence pics of the cut sections and the canvas is thick and has a very tight weave. Its exactly like the military canvas I am familiar with. If you think those are fabric rolls, I can tell you for a fact canvas does not do this AND especially not when still attached on either end keeping tension on it. You also have a major issue with the wave pattern and size. "if" those are slits, then in order to have all three in the frame would require you to be a good 2 feet of more back from the canvas..... at this distance you will NOT see a large open weave patters as suggested the three balls exposure depicts.
Admit it.... repeat after me...
THERE IS NO WAY POSSIBLE FOR ANYONE TO SAY WITH ANY LEVEL OF CERTAINTY WHAT THAT EXPOSURE DEPICTS
"So again, On the ONLY night he sets up to photograph lights, without knowing if there will be any, the whole group gets attacked by these lights. not once, but 2 or 3 times. You can't see how ridiculous you have become ? "
You can't argue a scenario wrt the DPI based on probabilities! Jeez the probable outcome of that night is that they wake up in the morning! All the scenarios are very improbable. Internal/external murder/aliens/yetis/wind/BL all extremely improbable and extremely difficult to align with the facts like the injury profile. We're very definately in improbable territory here. If you don't accept that then you're being ridiculous. So your point just isn't made, probable is a false argument.
"Definitely damaged, They lay in snow, ice, water for 3 months ! All you have to do is look at them to see. All but the first one has been magnified so much their meaningless. The first one was accidental exposure in the lab.
Seems like you have to prove them to be real, your the one claiming them to be real."
Well PROVING isn't easy but :-
(a) thanks to google / youtube i can point to images and vids that support the case that there is strong similarity with "real lights". The 2012 @ DP picture being key. But there's also a video of Hessdalen that films a similar light with this asymmetric structure looking like a "T".
(b) also there is an argument that if the images were exposed by SZ then he wasn't just photographing dark sky and he wasn't wasting frames. He didn't have a zoom so it's valid that some of the shots are highly magnified, that doesn't invalidate them.
(c) the eagle1 shot is absolutely the same as an eyewitness report from that period. A light surrounded by a mist. The eagle1 on it's own says they're real.
(d) i don't accept your determination for the three heads pic. I'll throw your improbable argument back at you, how probable is it that a photo that looks like a shot of a bright light through a canvas slit in a snowstorm could accidental? A trillion to one?
(e) wrt water damage the theory is that this camera wasn't commercial grade but military grade and waterproof. I'm not aware of cold damaging film?
Can't think of anything else, whiskey permitting : ).
Seems like you have to prove them to be real, your the one claiming them to be real.
So again, On the ONLY night he sets up to photograph lights, without knowing if there will be any, the whole group gets attacked by these lights. not once, but 2 or 3 times.
You can't see how ridiculous you have become ?
Fakes or damage? Personally i think damage is ridiculous. Faked is possible of course.
That's REALLY, REALLY stretching it, a LOT farther then I am willing to go>
Other priorities would include raising confidence in the students safety, he was an alpine expert and ww2 veteran. It is claimed that there was another kgb agent in the group "K" presumably AK or YK, at least one of whom worked in sensitive nuclear sites so (at a guess) it ticked a few boxes back at HQ. It may have been that SZ took the mission more seriously than his superiors perhaps.
Whatever it's no accident that they chose that campsite, they left late and went straight up camping near the ridge just 500m from the nearest point of the treeline. Very hard to argue that they were lost.
A transfer of radioactive material makes much more sense.
Whilst i respect people's passion i do think we should all show each other more respect. Nothing wrong with a bit of sarcasm and parody though, particularly when LC and myself cross swords. All good entertainment. But with respect. Shout at the opinion not at the person.
Concerning your post :-
"Everyone glosses over the fact these guys were ill equipped to survive any threats they encountered. No flares?"
Flares would be of no use, there was no settlement nearby to see them. Anyway even if the flare was seen and even reported there was no rescue infrastructure. That was the attraction for these youngsters, really out in the wild places.
"If SZ were an agent to study "lights," do you not agree he'd have a telescope or binoculars...or a telescopic lens on the camera?"
Well he's got to carry that stuff and probably a telescopic lens of that era would be much heavier. I'm guessing he opted for getting closer rather than carrying a pile of stuff. From memory the male members of the group set off with backpacks weighing 50kg so not much room onboard.
"I understand your logic about the the choice of unrestricted skyline...if he was to observe all this phenomena, but couldn't he walk to a clearing"
No that's the point the snow being whipped up off the back of the ridge ruled out a clearing or climbing a tree. Just 200m of altitude below the ridge and the sky could be a near whiteout. 200m higher and you're above it.
"instead making them sitting ducks? I mean wouldn't this raise questions and too many concerns about his choices between the group?"
There was no clear reason to be afraid of the lights other than mansi superstition would be the thinking. Someone went to the DP in 2012 and photographed these lights even with the benefit of hindsight. A light in the sky isn't scary until it comes and sits next to you...
Hi Nigel, re: the "three heads" photo -- if you examine it -- you'll see that the two "heads" on the right are not rounded like the one on the left -- I think what we're seeing is FIVE HEADS -- the two on the right look to me to be occluding / overlapping of two each.
5 heads?? I can't believe the utter bullshit you & ballman keep coming up with......
There's nothing special about you John. You're delusional & have no idea of self awareness.
Keep the preposterous shit coming, it's good for a chuckle.
Have a nice day.
To address your theory of SZ being a KGB to study lights in the area....
Everyone glosses over the fact these guys were ill equipped to survive any threats they encountered. No flares? How good is an important mission under those circumstances? If SZ were an agent to study "lights," do you not agree he'd have a telescope or binoculars...or a telescopic lens on the camera? I confess I haven't delved into the many theories, just cursory...so I try reserve comment on them. I understand your logic about the the choice of unrestricted skyline...if he was to observe all this phenomena, but couldn't he walk to a clearing instead making them sitting ducks? I mean wouldn't this raise questions and too many concerns about his choices between the group?
Wrt to your question - "Why did Mr. brilliant leader choose that locale when the forest would've given them break from the wind and a place to secure the stove?!"
"My BL theory" has it that SZ was a KGB agent on a mission to examine the reports of "lights" in this area, was equipped with a camera for night photography and he was attached to the group by the government agency that provided permission for the trip. So he would have had some serious influence on ID. On the 31 Jan they got to the base camp from which they would start ascending to Mt Otorten. The wind was very strong and coming from the West. Hence it was whipping up a lot of snow off the back of the ridge and into the forest that contained their planned route. This snow made it difficult to observe and photograph any lights so he decided that "the mission " was best served by camping as close to the ridge as was sensible the stove not deployed but filled with firewood just in case. So that's what they did, they left at 3pm and went straight up there. It wasn't ID's decision in fact he records in the diary (the last ever entry) - "We started fire with logs, too tired to dig a fire pit. We had supper right in the tent. It's warm. It is hard to imagine such a comfort somewhere on the ridge, with a piercing wind, hundreds kilometers away from human settlements.". Imo he's indicating he's being overruled on the plan, he doesn't like the idea of the ridge but has to comply.
Mr. Wolfe your post is irrational...an silly.
------------------
"Lyndasez 09-14-2017 22:09 (GMT) ---- your comments are even less useless than the vitriol of loose shorts --"
a.) Triggered much?
"1) Ssooooo -- what match-book gave you your PhD in Psychology ?"
a.) Don't need a PhD to use inductive reasoning..
"2) what's that got to do with MIT ?"
a.) Where you flew off to here, is beyond me. You compared the Russian students to the caliber of American... to which I posted (excerpt of crime committed by an MIT student) neutralizing your argument that both are super rational humans...
"3) you seem to be agreeing with me on that one,"
a.) not a chance...
"4) actually, they did go off in an organized group"
a.) So?! Where was the threat then?! They weren't equipped it seems to deal with any! Did they even have binoculars, telescope, lighter, how bout a distress flare?Wth????
"5) your future posts -- don't bother -- as I'm not going to waste my time on them"
a.) Yes, waste it on another pill or pint, and RELAX, man...this is a discussion board, you're not gonna be graded.
Well if the sole source of these reports is from that looo.ch site then there's cause for concern. I try not to base too much on internet sites, a lot of chinese whispers out there.
Disappointing he's too busy to look at a possible phenomena that is often quoted as an embarrassment of modern physics. Sign of the times, too much specialism.
When I first read these two accounts I was fascinated with the two stories -- however my fascination was in part because of a mis-reading of the two accounts. I had originally thought that the two events happened about ten years apart (as that is -- ie 10 years -- WHEN the second guy, the forester, started looking for the mining watchman guy from the first account; he had seen an article in the local newspaper -- and never forgot his experience of it) But then I started to look at the details of the two stories and realized we'd all been pranked -- by some Soviet teens, no doubt.
1) -- first of all -- the events happened only about two weeks apart, and it was summer, when school is out, and kids stay up late; some playing pranks. I checked the dates on both reports -- less than two weeks apart -- but it was THE NEWSPAPER ARTICL about the mining watchman's experience, that got the forester's attention, which was in a local paper ten years later. Also -- the two events happened somewhat close to one another. Don't have the books in front of me -- about 40 km apart, as I recall.
2) both events had the exact same appearance - with the exact same "behavior" of the lights. (I don't think ball lightning would duplicate its actions at a different location / or time --- its actions being somewhat random.
3) in both, the big light kept turning off when the "victim" looked at it -- as the light operator would see the glowing pupils and know he was being looked at.
4) both events had "swinging " but much smaller, lights. Like a couple of guys walking with a flashlight (sorry - torch) in each hand.
5) sounds like a fun thing to do.
---- any thoughts ? ----
Have to go for now, I'm getting fitted for a custom adult onesie tomorrow to match my binky and I'm super excited. Do you guys cosplay? Toodaloo!
1) Ssooooo -- what match-book gave you your PhD in Psychology ?
2) what's that got to do with MIT ?
3) you seem to be agreeing with me on that one,
4) actually, they did go off in an organized group
5) your future posts -- don't bother -- as I'm not going to waste my time on them
6) have a nice day, Linda
@KMM - "I argue lots of stuff with him. BTW, he doesn't buy into BL DPI "
Good for him, what's his opinion of the three heads, eagle photos and the 2012 pics?
He says "he doesn't have time for this"
https://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/Scary-Unexplained-Mysteries-The-Dyatlov-Pass-Incident
Lev Ivanov, the lead investigator on the case, concluded that the party had been killed by an ‘unknown compelling force’. But privately he became convinced they had been killed by aliens.
https://theunredacted.com/dyatlov-pass-incident-mountain-of-the-dead/
During the time of the journey, lead investigator, Lev Ivanov, was convinced that the party had been killed by aliens.
https://www.theodysseyonline.com/cold-case-mystery-2-the-supernatural-deaths-of-9-hikers-at-dyatlov-pass
Privately, he told people he thought they’d been killed by aliens in a UFO
http://midnightinthedesert.com/dyatlov-pass-indicent-what-slaughtered-nine-hikers-on-siberias-death-mountain-in-1959/
Hey Nigel my little buddy... What if your three cocks exposure is actually evidence of a bright ass flashlight?? Whoah.... Entire BL theory goes poof! Perhaps lends credentials to the murder theory.....
You have no idea what that exposure is. Fact
#1 = internal murder theory somehow, dunno the details, but they definately got beat to shit.
#2 = external murder theory somehow, dunno the details, but they definately got beat to shit.
#3 = murder by methanol theory somehow, dunno the details, but they definately got methanoled.
#4 - act of god theory, fuck knows how as long as they get beat to shit.
#5 = BL theory, lots of detail and supported with photographs, but doesn't include that they got beat to shit.
Incorrect, he said - "By the way, I do not mean that these UFOs are connected with aliens. A UFO is an unidentified flying object, and that’s it. A lot of data speaks of the fact that [the UFOs] can be bursts of energy not understood by modern science, but which affect life and the environment.
Oss, Svetlana. Don't Go There: Post Mortem (p. 138). LiberWriter.com. Kindle Edition. "
Good for him, what's his opinion of the three heads, eagle photos and the 2012 pics?
Lyndasez.... OUTSTANDING!.... Another poster capable of critical thinking that's not cornered themselves into a mental box prison.
Allow me to clarify, some were wrapped more tightly than others. In photos some are clowning around, whereas, Igor appears on the outside looking in..
And to your comparison to the likes of MIT students, I submit this: "On Thursday, November 22 (1971), a former MIT student named Larry J. Harmon entered St. Aloysius Roman Catholic Church in Spokane, Washington - his home-town; He was armed with a sledge hammer and a clip-fed .22 caliber rifle. With the hammer he smashed the interior of the church and with the rifle he killed the caretaker, 68 year old Hilary Kunz."
-- "as for all the talk of love and kissing -- what else do 20'something college students talk about when they are relaxing? "
According to you they would be discussing the Riemann hypothesis or string theory!
Concerning the stove- yes, I know it wasn't erected that night, which also concerns me. Why did Mr. brilliant leader choose that locale when the forest would've given them break from the wind and a place to secure the stove?!
"please note: Igor was chosen for the group leader because he had led groups in that area before -- more than one time. This was a school club."
I know this to, 4 hikes i believe was stated. So? What was his disaster training, think the girls had as many hikes ...and 1 was bitten by a viper and the other accidentally shot.. if Igor was so good at this wouldn't they all have been kept together, instead of splintered off?
For the record.... Since conversing with Nigel, the BL possibly (for me) has been reduced to #4 or #5 on my list.
Your too kind LC. I've got it below Yeti, and Lev Ivanov's
"Ivanov firmly believed that UFOs and alien technology was responsible for the unexplained mystery".
Which would be farther down my list.
I really like Ian's conclusion - he has by far explained what might have happened to the individuals with the most plausable explanation. Whether or not it was soldiers is probably the only "iffy" part of the explanation. It could have been natives or soldiers - doesn't matter. It definitely fits the clues left.
Me 14-01-2016 17:24 (GMT)
They were obviously murdered somehow.
Ian 13-08-2016 14:11 (GMT)
These were young people full of life and ability, who would have brought a lot of good into the world if they had been able to live out their natural lifetimes. The sheer tragedy of this story hasn’t allowed it to leave my mind for days. At least for me, trying to put together a rational explanation of the events brings a little bit of closure. I’m not saying that the hypothetical scenario that follows is what happened, but I do think it fits all of the available evidence. What do you think?
Sometime during the day or evening of Feb 1st, the Dyatlov group encountered a clandestine testing or training operation perhaps involving jets or rockets (This would explain the reports of glowing orange lights and the military debris in the area later noted by YY). It wasn’t the type of situation where there was a fear of the hikers leaking photographs of a secrete weapon (their cameras would have simply been confiscated). For some reason, the group itself came to be perceived as the threat.
The group’s journal records that as they were traveling towards the beginning point of their hike, they sometimes sung anti-revolution songs that could have landed them in jail. They twice had scrapes with authorities on their trip (once for singing). Also from the journal, it appears that they enjoyed free and open debates about a variety of topics. Later, out in the woods hundreds of km from the nearest settlement (journal entry), they probably would have felt even greater freedom in such expressions. Entering into the area of an ongoing operation may have brought them under surveylence, perhaps without their knowledge. An overheard song or a frank debate about politics, combined with their chance-but-perceived-as-“suspicious” presence in a sensitive area, caused them to be viewed as subversive.
They camped that night on open high ground. When one of the members, perhaps SZ or NYB, stepped outside to relieve himself, if it was clear, his flashlight would have been visible for a long distance, alerting anyone in the area who might not have already been aware of their tent’s precise location. Minutes later, as the group was finishing dinner and drying out their clothes, a small armed detachment arrived at the tent. Whoever it was (I’ll call them “soldiers”) knocked the tent down, fired a few rounds into the air, and ordered the hikers outside or they would be shot. (Supposedly, there were no footprints other than the Dyaltov party’s at the tent, but how could one tell? Surely the Dyaltov group made many boot prints when they set up camp, obviously the rescuers were wearing boots days later when they got to the tent. At first no one suspected it could be a crime scene. It is not just possible but probable that a couple extra pairs of footprints at the tent would have gone unnoticed).
Unexpected gunfire and barking orders would have sent a momentary jolt of fear into even these level-headed travelers. Members of the group who had pocket knives at hand quickly cut through the tent to get everyone outside before the threat was carried out. The multiple cuts in the tent were created in the panic and confusion of exiting a wriggling collapsed tent cover in the dark.
The soldiers wanted to neutralize the hikers, but to leave bullet holes or other obvious wounds would have eventually led to strong demands for an explanation from the community. The soldiers chose to expose them to the cold. Under some guise, the soldiers told the Dyatlov group that they had to leave the area immediately. With great presence of mind, the group leader, ID grabbed a flashlight and his heavy coat as he was leaving the tent. He was immediately ordered to leave them behind, setting the flashlight on the tent, and throwing his coat down, near the spot where he had exited (It’s difficult to conceive of another logical scenario that would explain these objects being found where they were).
The Dyaltov party was followed, but not very far. (Their being followed some distance would explain the heeled boot track found among their own tracks as they headed down slope - No one in the group was wearing such boots at this time). They dropped a lit flashlight on the way, either because they were ordered to do so, or in hopes of using it as a beacon to direct them back to the tent if the soldiers left.
Poorly clothed, in extreme cold, and possibly in the dark, these resilient people covered half the distance that they traveled in their entire day’s hike, to arrive at the nearest tree line. This probably took quite a bit of time, and they knew that with their level of exposure the clock was against them. They set up a small base camp under a pine tree, just out of site of the tent, and together built an emergency fire (an impressive feat with frozen wood, in the cold, with no gloves, and possibly in the dark). Afraid that the soldiers were still at the tent, and unsure if they would pursue, YD and YK were posted near the fire to keep a lookout for the soldiers’ approach. (This would explain why branches were broken off so high up in the tree on the side of the tent, when other branches would have been easier to obtain.) Perhaps they kept a lookout from up in the tree as long as they could. Many or all of the injuries on these two individuals were from exposed hands getting frost bite in the tree, eventually leading to them falling out.
The rest of the group proceeded to build a shelter in a protected area, near, but out of site of the lookout tree. The small fire of frozen wood was not enough to keep the injured YD, and YK warm. Even though they burned parts of their numb extremities, they fell asleep. Either someone in the group was with them, or came back to them, showing care and respect by placing the bodies next to each other. The outer clothes, no longer of any use to the deceased, were removed. At this point, the shelter was not yet finished, because some of their clothing was incorporated into it. The survivors did their best to stay warm in the shelter, but were dangerously cold and heartbroken over the deaths.
Shortly before dawn, the soldiers returned to make sure no one was left to tell the tale. They discovered the shelter, and a hand-to-hand fight ensued. (This would explain many’s of the group’s injuries, including the bruised metacarples on ID and RS, RS’s concussion, and the baton bruise on ZK.) Exhausted and freezing, the group was now no match for their assailants even without the use of their guns).
ID, RS, and ZK managed to break free into the darkness. They made a run for the tent, desperate for the axes or anything to help their friends. (Such a level of desperation would explain why they left the group, the shelter, and the fire, when they were so close to freezing that they could only go a few hundred more yards). ZK, a strong and brave young woman came the closest to making it.
As for the group that was left, the soldiers pressed LD and SZ to death, broke YK’s neck, and crushed TBS’s skull, neutralizing them without leaving any obvious weapon mark. (Such a grim scenario would explain the types of injuries sustained by the party members found in the ravine - crushed chests with none of the external cuts or arm injuries that would have certainly happened in a fall, explain why they were all found outside of their nearby shelter, explain the fragment of soldier’s garb found in the ravine, and explain why it was subsequently taken out of evidence). The autopsies of these group members were the most vague, because the coroners had no choice. More detail would have raised still more questions from the community and gotten them in official hot water.
It is significant that YY, who was a part of the group, knew the Dyatlov party’s circumstances better than any living person, and saw all or most of the original evidence, thought that the military had something to do with his friend’s deaths. In 2008, 6 of the original rescuers and a team of 31 experts came to the similar conclusion that military testing was involved. The official report was that the Dyatlov group died at the hands of an “unknown compelling force”. How could words come closer to summarizing the above, without implicating the party responsible? This may also explain why the military closed the area for the following three years.
Any thoughts?
Robs 04-10-2016 17:50 (GMT)
These were scientific professionals not your average man off the street. Something happened in the or around the tent that made 9 people panic and evacuate the tent under extreme pressure. Knowing it was minus 20+ they left without clothing and equipment. We already agreed that they ran from the tent not walked so that already falsified the report saying they walked in single file. I see no evidence of BL or the phonomia of the low wave sounds that "send people mad". The BL to strike in 3 different locations and kill multiple persons is at best highly unlikely. We are missing something if they didn't read the tracks correctly as mentioned above then they could have missed other things in my opinion
CE399_ 19-10-2016 19:21 (GMT)
Comment to Robs:
Group infighting does not explain the hurried exit from the tent unless someone pulled a gun on the rest of the group. Or say, grabbed Lyuda and threatened to slit her throat if the rest of the group didn't do as he said.
Zolotaryov had the most unstable personal life going into the trip. He was a serial job-hopper. That is often a sign of an acute personality or psychological disorder that suddenly erupts. He was a loner and from a culture that almost required marriage yet remained unmarried at an age that was considered too old.
Zolotaryov had strange tattoos which are not that unusual for hardcore Soviet military men except that they were too cryptic in way that was not normal.
Zolotaryov was a Cossack from a group that was 97% wiped out by Stalin's genocide. He survived by joining the Soviet army and proving himself loyal to them. To abandon your familial heritage and join the enemy has to mean something is askew or will go askew with you psychologically at some point. And Zolotaryov had a very askew career and personal life.
Zolotaryov was an unvetted outsider with a very suspicious past that included World War II service where Soviet soldiers committed genocide, murder, torture and rape on a scale that certainly touched his experience if not fully involved him.
I would agree that infighting could have been what happened if Zolotaryov had not suffered the same violent death as Lyuda.
Zolotaryov was well clothed when he died of internal trauma. The rather mediocre coroners said there were no "external signs of injury" i.e. bruising to match the cracked ribs. This has been mistakenly attributed as evidence that the "overwhelming force" was some mysterious electromagnetic beam weapon.
Every other member of the group had a lengthy history with each other that rules out any of them as being involved in a fatal infighting incident.
Only Zolotaryov could have been the cause of an infighting conflict that drove them to their deaths. His background paints a very troubled person. But nothing that indicates he was a sociopath.
The biggest problem with trying to pin it on Zolotaryov is that he died with the other victims in a way that could not have been self-inflicted. And there just isn't another person who can be fingered with any reasonable degree of evidence. The group was also nearer the beginning of the trip than the end. Nerves get frayed during an expedition of several days but the group had not been traveling in the wilderness as a group, out of contact with the rest of the world, for more than four days. And they had not encountered any significant difficulties that would accelerate interpersonal tensions.
Someone from the outside attacked the group and did so for reasons that were personal and excluded most of the group.
Because Lyuda was so viciously attacked and two other men with her were killed violently, the most logical scenario is that the attacker(s) drove the group suddenly out of the tent.
At some point, some of them fought back and escaped. Some of them were seriously injured in the process and all were too weak and vulnerable to survive which would explain why the attacker(s) did not pursue them.
A person improperly clothed in a storm at -25 Celsius isn't going to survive the night. The escapees tried to get a fire going and climbed a tree to see where they were --strong evidence that they were driven from the tent by an attacker and not a fireball. If they had had a choice of where to flee, they would have headed toward the larger river, main path and their storage cache by the abandoned campsite.
Some of the escapees tried to get back to the tent and some stayed with the fire. Those who stayed with the fire were burned because that is what happens when the fire is too small and the weather too cold.
The clothing was not taken off of dead bodies, it was ordered to be given to the subgroup that the attacker was most interested in dealing with. People just assume the clothing of some of the victims was removed by their comrades after they died. In a hostage scenario the possibilities include clothing being ordered to be removed.
Because Zolotaryov was wearing Lyuda's hat and because his injuries would have left him alive for minutes or hours, it is logical to imagine that the assailant injured Zolotaryov first. Lyuda then, seeing him injured took compassion on him and gave him her hat. This likely took place in "the den" where Lyuda would have been out of the wind and could have survived without a hat.
The assailant then attacked Lyuda, perhaps it was because she showed compassion for Zolotaryov. Her injuries are consistent with someone acting out of anger and not as part of a fistfight.
The assailant then left the group after seeing that all of them were dead.
Doing such a thing was crazy stupid illogical and irrational but most crimes of passion are.
Everyone wants to treat the fireball events seen around the time of the Dyatlov tragedy as special. Sorry, that sort of thing is not special at all. Go spend a couple winters up there and you'll see. I have. And I am not impressed at all by the stories. They are as common as hurricanes in Florida. Sure, some are bigger than others and some seasons have few and others a lot. But what was seen was not unique.
Frank Black 25-10-2016 19:27 (GMT)
Best web site I've seen so far with very comprehensive injury information. I don't believe in a Yeti, UFO or any of that paranormal crap. There is only one kind of animal that can inflict that kind of damage to those young people- MAN. Military security, regular Army whatever but I believe it was other humans. I know that it might take some of the "lunatic fringe" mystery out of it but really a Yeti, be serious. Look at the autopsy data, some of those kids had the crap beaten out of them. You have to look at this logically plus 9 intelligent educated young people lost there lives possibly because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Robs 31-10-2016 12:11 (GMT)
How many people had BL actually killed leaving these exact injuries ? I suspect none but I'm not an expert?
Robs 26-11-2016 16:58 (GMT)
The bodies weren't found for weeks. Footprints couldhave easily been made or covered without any hassle including the hijackers foot prints (if that's what happened) the BL theory is just too far fetched for me, to make them Leave the tent in such a panic, apparently follow them and kill them at different locations doesn't seem right
Robs 28-11-2016 18:09 (GMT)
That is a possibility Mick, certainly i think that the group were hijacked by persons unknown
Mick 28-11-2016 17:44 (GMT)
Earlier, the group had had an argument with a drunk man who claimed they'd stolen his wallet, so perhaps when he'd sobered up he got his friends to follow the hikers, and clubbed them in their tent?
Teddy 30-11-2016 18:09 (GMT)
Another thing - what caused my trauma is high velocity impact - I was mounted in the back of a truck, much like this http://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Krivonischenko-camera-film6-05.jpg the truck going down a mountain and the brakes failed. The truck lost control and we smashed into a rock with 70 km/h. So I tell you - you can not break your ribs by falling down a snow slope or somebody hitting you with a heavy bat. This is what is puzzling me, even if there were people pointing guns at them, how did they manage to inflict such a horrific injuries? A butt of a rifle can cause and most probably did cause Slobodin's skull fracture http://dyatlovpass.com/death#Slobodin but not Dubinina's broken ribs. Zolotaryov had similar rib fractures http://dyatlovpass.com/death#Zolotaryov
Teddy 30-11-2016 17:52 (GMT)
Dubinina had 10 broken ribs on both sides. Please refer to http://dyatlovpass.com/death#Dubinina I had similar injury - flail chest with lung contusion http://distal-humerus.com/resources/320/gallery/2012-07-24-X-Ray-chest.jpg They drained my right lung for 10 days - it was a pulp. My prognosis was dim.
Dubinina had twice as much broken ribs but she didn't drown in her own blood because a broken rib pierced her heart.
The cause of death is stated as hemorrhage into right atrium of the heart, multiple fractured ribs and internal bleeding
More interesting is that there were 100 g of coagulated blood in her stomach which means she swallowed after her tongue was ripped out.
Photos of Lyudmila from the morgue clearly show that there is no damage to the mouth, nose, ears or other soft tissues. If the body was devoured by scavengers, insects or even fish in the water these would be the first parts of the body that would show signs of damage.
Robs 04-12-2016 20:22 (GMT)
My theory is that hijackers forced them to leave tent with no shoes and little clothing knowing that they would soon die (and attacked them later). The tracks disappeared just like the tracks from the 9'when they setup camp
ken 29-01-2017 15:58 (GMT)
Violent death refers to death resulting from a sharp blow, stabbing, explosion, gunfire, or the like. The death is accelerated by human intervention. It is the opposite of natural death which occurs due to natural reasons.
It says human intervention,meaning that the death of the victims was caused by another humans.
Finally....A person on this site besides the 3 Musketeers & their BL blither which never ceases. Page after page after pitiful bs page.......If you disagree, you're bullied & ignored. Nothing else is discussed except the BL. Oh, that murdering BL.......9 people in ....
how many different injuries??? The BL seems to like hands, especially fingers, since almost all of them have combat/fight defensive injuries, skinned knuckles....... Seems to like breaking both sets of ribs and skulls too.....Severing a tongue....Blunt force trauma on a skull, case files state this......Removing 2 sets of eyeballs......caving a chest cavity in.
Igor has many many abrasions and defensive wounds as well even tho he died from hypothermia, many hand abrasions...... Most of them have dried blood around their mouths, their noses, as in fight wounds, again......It states in the case files that it's very rare for hypothermia victims to look like these hikers. Meaning, most hypothermia victims do not have the shit kicked, punched, kneed, hit violently with a baton, blunt force trauma to a skull and almost all sets of 9 hands with obvious combat/defensive wounds.
That BL sure was busy stalking that nite...........
There used to be a lot of other posters discussing the obvious & file stated documents that equal all 9 hikers being murdered by other people. This is a given now. Yet, this site is now only used for this BL bullsh!t by 3 delusional posters, one being an obsessed, desperate man to be known for making up "the big BL theory", and in his own words, he thinks we have "theory envy" or some such bull, since almost all the posters that have been here disagreed with Nigel & have left long ago.
Of course the BL man has been here since inception, blowing his fancied horn as if he's achieved some wonderful award for thinking up such a thing as BL killing nine people at one get go.
It says BLs disappear quickly too musketeers. A lot of them are the size of a grapefruit..... they leave electric shocks on people often....lightning marks.....burns that you can tell come from some sort of lightning...
And did I say that I read that it's "rare" or almost impossible to have BL without some sort of storm?? They have hundreds of alleged victims/survivors that have posted about their own stories of a BL. None of them match even close to the hikers. Most survived.
I feel your laid back, moronic BL mumbo jumbo is a disgrace to these 9 that were so brutally murdered, died in screaming terror and agony, the last 4 tortured for hours and hours....
You should be ashamed of yourselves for saying it's "unintelligent" to believe what the files are depicting clearly & what the deceased pics unmistakenly show. The death pics are horrific, just horrific of their terror.........
The nine hikers deserve to have their truth be stated so they didn't all die in vain without anyone knowing what really happened.
I feel pity for your delusion and for Nigel's false bravado over a really really senseless & proven ludicrous BL pipe dream.
It is clear to see, except for the delusional, and from reading all nine's autopsies & what was written in their case files and in the decades since, in this year of 2017, yes, it's very evident and clearly stated in the files that all nine were attacked & murdered by "people" in "hand to hand combat/fighting".
If you do not support this BL ridiculous sh!t, I can't call it a theory any longer after I did some research on what it is & what today's scientists know and think about it. Seems like it disappears pretty quickly, to have it happen without a thunderstorm/rainstorm is indeed considered "rare" & has different injuries listed by the "many" people that claim to have been hit by BL and survived.
If there had "really" been 9 people, all hit by BL, it is rare & highly unlikely that all 9 would have been killed by it. There would have been survivors.
I have since found MANY photos of the 9 hikers death pictures that I have never seen before, nor are all of them listed on this site. It has horrified me as about all have mouths open wide, as if in screaming in terror, and anything BUT CALM as the jackass Nigel has stated. Calm? Are you really that delusional you will say such a thing just to support your BL blah blah. To say that is disrespectful to the hikers & the agony that was suffered. Their lives taken just.like.that.
I also find it disrespectful that you would post that Zina hardly had any injuries. "Scratches" you called them. She had abrasions, not scratches, almost all over her entire face. Her hands. Her knuckles were skinned to the bone......She isn't even recognizable. A person hit the f*ck out of her with something like a baton. To stop her from getting to the tent. She was doing pretty good until her back got whacked as hard as a strong man could. Fact. Evidence to back this up.
There are other sites where intelligent folks can discuss rationally and seriously the way these young innocent peoples' lives were taken. .... God knows. He saw. He wept. He will serve
His justice one day. The 9 deserve justice and truth and they're not getting that here.
@LC - high energy radiation = X rays and/or gamma rays... Ligtning bolts also produce ball lightning....
I've previously conjectured that they could have been unlucky with a positive polarity lightning bolt. But it doesn't really explain leaving the tent AND being kept away. So given SZ's photos i've opted for BL start and finish.
If you've read the thread you'll know i have a degree in Physics btw.
I have a son with a Masters in physics, well on his way to a PHD at ASU - GO SUNDEVILS ! :-) - I argue lots of stuff with him. BTW, he doesn't buy into BL DPI
I'm happy for you..... But how does that equate to evidence BL killed 9 hikers, or you having the authority over opinions? Does this mean I have to kiss your ass, or do you still put your pants on the same way I do? Please tell me your like the dear leader of NK and do not go #2.
I've previously conjectured that they could have been unlucky with a positive polarity lightning bolt. But it doesn't really explain leaving the tent AND being kept away. So given SZ's photos i've opted for BL start and finish.
If you've read the thread you'll know i have a degree in Physics btw.
Good thing they didn't get hit by lightning eh Nigel.
Well there ya go.... Radioactive Iodine. The thyroid gland is next.
We know the definition of 'violent'.... You asshat
From what I'm seeing, its all about exposure/poisoning of methanol and a type of irrradiation, OR irradiated methanol. There has been no such mention of 'microwave' irrradiation. Im almost certain its in reference to the type found on the articles of clothing from the ravine 4. Was it gama? Ill get to it shortly
re: KMM 09-13-2017 20:07 (GMT)
the intelligent ask WHY DID THE MANSI NAME THE TWO MOUNTAINS --- DEAD MOUNTAIN --- and --- DON'T GO THERE ---
That has been explained in almost all websites I've
read, maybe you should try reading some.
---- why don't you quote a few instead of spouting
off about stuff you haven't read --- all the accounts
I've read say that they Mansi named the
mountains such because of a hunting party which was
killed by the gods -- who looked like balls of light -- how much clearer do you need it ? If they had the word "explosion" or "explodes" in their lexicon they probably would have used that word too.
.................................................
LC answered you with a link
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kholat_Syakhl
Here is another:
http://survincity.com/2012/08/mystery-death-of-dyatlov/
History began Jan. 23, 1959, when five students of the Ural Polytechnic Institute, three engineers — graduates of the same university — and the instructor campings reached the 22-day ski trip length of three kilometers of the highest grade. During a trek was planned and climb Mount Otorten (translation — "Do not go there" or "mountain, where the wind blows"
You made the statement, why didn't you post links to
support it? Maybe something that doesn't contain the
words "legend" "folklore" "yeti", you know something intelligent folk will understand.
Violent death refers to death resulting from a sharp blow, stabbing, explosion, gunfire, or the like. The death is accelerated by human intervention. It is the opposite of natural death which occurs due to natural reasons.
It says human intervention,meaning that the death of the victims was caused by another humans.
-- could you provide some links to the above (is it a quote? or a supposition ?)
From what I understand, methanol (form of alcohol) can be irradiated, and it use in Russian oil fields? at the time was extensive. The point is...... Methanol poisoning>>>> blood boil (think Bends)>>> enlarged aorta. There is another long section regarding the radiation found on the clothing with interviews, interrogation quotes and all all the facts including the actual reports that I haven't gotten to yet.
Aortas 3 Times the size they should be..... Fact
quoting your post -- "... some of these guys seem like class clowns some athletes...Dyatlov I see weight trained and is the Leader of this bunch ... "
--- NONE OF THESE GUYS/GIRLS WERE CLASS CLOWNS ! they were undergraduate and graduate students at Ural Polytechnic Institute -- which is like the MIT or Stanford U of the Soviet Nation. (though much smaller and not nearly as well funded) They were (highly valuable) students in engineering and the sciences; some already working in their field while they studied.
-- as for all the talk of love and kissing -- what else do 20'something college students talk about when they are relaxing?
-- (from the "hikers" drop down in this site) --
as for:
Igor Alekseievich Dyatlov
Born on Jan. 13, 1936, Russian Federation
He was the leader of the ill-fated hiking group; the whole incident is named after him. He was a student of the 5th Faculty of Radio Engineering at UPI university. A talented engineer, he designed and assembled a radio during his 2nd year that was used during hikes in 1956 in the Sayan Mountains. He also designed a small stove that he used after 1958 by Dyatlov himself and that he had brought with him on this trip. People who knew Igor described him as a thoughtful man who never rushed with his decisions. He courted Zina Kolmogorova who also took part in the hike. Igor Dyatlov was one of the most experienced athletes in the group.
He was 23 years old when he died.
-- please note: Igor was chosen for the group leader because he had led groups in that area before -- more than one time. This was a school club.
-- as for Zina'a comment in your post ( "diary entry: "Igor all evening was rude, I didn't recognize him. I had to sleep on the wood near the stove."
It says human intervention,meaning that the death of the victims was caused by another humans.
Because i didn't understand how methanol could irradiate i did google the above.
And i still don't understand...
FYI, microwave irradiation is NOT the only form of irradiation. I SUGGEST YOU GO EDUCATE YOURSELF.... PERHAPS GOOGLE METHANOL IRRADIATION.
THE WORD 'MICROWAVE' WAS NEVER STATED IN MY POST, and if you don't think their aorta being TRIPLE THE SIZE it should be.... YOUR A BONIFIDE IDIOT
the intelligent ask WHY DID THE MANSI NAME THE TWO MOUNTAINS --- DEAD MOUNTAIN --- and --- DON'T GO THERE ---
That has been explained in almost all websites I've read, maybe you should try reading some.
---- why don't you quote a few instead of spouting off about stuff you haven't read --- all the accounts I've read say that they Mansi named the mountains such because of a hunting party which was killed by the gods -- who looked like balls of light -- how much clearer do you need it ? If they had the word "explosion" or "explodes" in their lexicon they probably would have used that word too.
containing several references to the word "violent"
"Death is violent - an accident. SUD.MED.EXPERT OF THE REGIONAL BUREAU OF SUDMEDEKSPERTIZY - signature / REVIVAL / COURT.MED.EXPERT OF THE CITY OF NORTH-URALSK - signature / LAPTEV / "
and -- "Bodily injuries of the soft tissues of the head region and "bath skin" of the limbs are posthumous changes in the body of Thibault Brignol, which was recently found in the water.
The death of Thibault Brignoles is violent."
and -- "The death of Zolotarev is violent."
and -- "The body injuries found on the body of Kolevatov are in the head area - defects in soft tissues, as well as "bath" skin, are posthumous changes in a corpse that was recently found before it was found in the water.
Kolevatov's death is violent."
from your quote, please note:
--- you all misconstrue the word "violent" to mean an attack (you watch too much television and movies) -- but as stated in your post above their meaning is clear "violent" here means broken bones and internal injuries -- as they then say (elsewhere) like an "auto accident"
--- special note to all: this "auto accident" in no way implies that someone drove a car over the nine hikers -- and none of you are claiming this -- yet you all construe "violent" as if it meant an attack -- it does not -- if a TREE fell on you and killed you -- that would also be "violent" -- but no one would suggest that the tree "attacked" you.
i'd add expansion due to freezing to the list.
Where's this bombshell thingy?
I saw it again later & it had found its way inside one of the cars & was banging the drivers' skull against the window....
Then it disappeared in a poof.
https://image.ibb.co/dp6COk/255px_aorta_scheme.jpg .
The arch of the aorta with its convexity is facing upward. From the bulge go three large vessels: the brachiocephalic trunk, the left common carotid artery and the left subclavian artery.
The brachiocephalic trunk at the level of the right sternoclavicular joint is divided into two branches: the right common carotid artery and the right subclavian artery. Heading from the front to the bottom, the aortic arch at the level III of the thoracic vertebra passes into the descending part of the aorta.
Most recently, based on thousands of studies, doctors made an interesting conclusion that the age of a person can be determined from the width of the aorta!
The aorta in humans is expanded twice - initially to 20-22 years, for the second time after 40 years.
Analysis of the metric data of men of different ages was carried out after studies of the aorta without pronounced atherosclerotic deformation and putrefactive changes. As a result of this analysis, forensic experts noticed an amazing feature - the width of the aorta varies with age.
https://image.ibb.co/dc1COk/n9emv1.png .
https://image.ibb.co/gyNiw5/image01467.jpg .
As we can see, the widest part of the aortic arch in part "D" in healthy people under the age of 25 years should not exceed 5 cm.
Publication. "Actual issues of forensic medicine and expert practice, Barnaul-Novosibirsk 2011. 17 »
(SME EM Skaryukin, head of the Elizovsky Interdistrict Office)
http://journal.forens-lit.ru/node/453
Perhaps, about this feature of the aorta Vozrozhdenniy B.A. in 1959 did not yet know, but the size of the aorta in the dead were strange:
The width of the aortic arch above the valves:
Kolevatov Alexander 7 cm
Thibo-Brignol Nicholas - 8.5 cm
Igor Dyatlov - 8 cm of
Kolmogorova Zina - 8 cm
Doroshenko Yuri - 8,5 cm
It turns out that in 5 children, the Vozrozhdenniy recorded that the width of the aortic arch was increased for some reason. Such dimensions of the width of the aortic arch correspond to the size of the organ of a sick person or person aged over 70 years. But all the guys were healthy and athletic people!
As a result, in a short period of time, the width of the aortic arch could increase in healthy athletes?
The rapid expansion of the aortic arch (an aortic arch aneurysm) was probably due to inhalation pulmonary edema, sudden pressure spikes and blood clotting after receiving poisoning and a large dose of irradiation (blood, as it were, boils in the veins) and venous stasis.
Except that the group split not once, but twice.... I do however like the word "seem" as its slightly less factual.
they seem to act as a cooperating group who are forced to leave the tent and crucially forced to stay away for some time. The latter is one of the key points for the BL theory and imo defeats an internal violence scenario for the simple reason that there would have been a rapid fight with fatalities and a surviving group and they would have returned to the tent for their stuff asap"
Key points for the BL theory eh? There is ZERO evidence they were 'forced' to stay away from the tent. In fact, three of them WERE apparently returning to the tent when they perished. You also have absolutely no idea at what point in time or how quickly said return attempt/attempts happened. Quite the imagination for inventing facts.
see my post - 04-09-2017 09:10 (GMT)
These are claimed to be from the DP in 2012.
http://www.viafanzine.jor.br/002imag/03_13/dyatlov4_objeto.jpg .
http://www.viafanzine.jor.br/002imag/03_13/dyatlov4_objeto2.jpg .
@Lyndasez - hi, good to hear what Lynda says. A problem with the internal strife theory is that Yudin didn't flag it and he was there. SZ was well accepted etc etc. Also all of the photos and their newspaper demonstrate a very friendly group. It's possible of course for tensions to suddenly surface but i don't see it in their actions, they seem to act as a cooperating group who are forced to leave the tent and crucially forced to stay away for some time. The latter is one of the key points for the BL theory and imo defeats an internal violence scenario for the simple reason that there would have been a rapid fight with fatalities and a surviving group and they would have returned to the tent for their stuff asap. But all of the events seem to show a timeline lasting say 2 hours. It would have taken time to get down the hill, build a fire, the 2 yuris were turned after lividity had frozen in which takes time. so it seems reasonable for say a couple of hours away from the tent. So what was keeping them away for so long standing in their socks? What was that compelling force?
Imo the key question isn't what made them leave the tent but what kept them away from all their gear with which they could easily survive long term. The labaz was well stocked with food all they needed was that gear, but they didn't go back to the tent for it instead built a fire and a den. Finally when three of them did try they all expired within 330m.
Something kept them away and frustrated their return.
Acts of forensic medical examination of the corpses of the last four were signed only by prosecutor-criminalist Ivanov and forensic expert Vozrozhdenniy.
Signatures under the act of court. Med. Studies of the corpses of Ivanov and the forensic expert of the Vozrozhdenniy
The forensic expert Vozrozhdenniy on the document did not put his seal, the signature of the third person - criminalist expert Churkina is absent. Acts of the last four are invalid.
https://image.ibb.co/dFTBya/sme.jpg .
What happened, why the Rebellion could not execute the order from above and write to all the dead the cause of death "freezing" - remains a mystery, it is also unknown what kind of injuries the guys actually had. Vozrozhdenniy did not attach to the media report (forensic medical research) photographs from the mortuary corpses of Alexander Kolevatov and Thibault Nikolai.
Along with this, the media reports contain some details about the absence of eyes and tongue from corpses, which gave the tragedy a bit of mysticism. Extricated for some reason in all the stories, together with the artificially created and widespread myth of the mountain of the dead, these "details" fuel an interest in the tragedy and make people feel fear from an unknown "spontaneous force".
(Bat in hand) oh your boy Ivanov is the one covering shit up alright.
Something along those lines is exactly what may have happened in my opinion. Glad I'm not the only one that sees the tension and Igor's ability to go postal. That boy aint right!!!
In this Resolution, Ivanov writes:
"In February 1959, a group of hikers from the Ural Polytechnic Institute consisting of 9 people died in the height area marked" 1079 "in the Northern Urals , the corpses of five hikers and part of the group's equipment were found by the search, the troupes of the remaining participants were not found.
In connection with the non-discovery of other participants in the hike, it is not possible to establish finally the cause of the death of hikers and the perpetrators of this, and the meteorological conditions of the area of ??death do not allow to carry out prospecting works on a scale that would allow finding other participants in the hike. "
Ivanov writes that a group of 9 people died , but the corpses of 4 members of the group had not been found by that time!"
Ivanov.... What a genius! Are you related Nigel?
Seen everything from great balls of fire, aliens, rocket ships and yetis...to blame.
If anyone has come across a psychological profile of this crew, I'd like to see it.
From reading the documents on this site: https://sites.google.com/site/hibinaud/home/akt-issledovania-trupa-datlova-igora and others.
I'm leaning towards this scenario. In their journals the ladies made mention of arguing between the guys, before and during the trek. One of them is over which 2 has to sleep nearest the stove inside the tent, since it's too hot it's singed clothes, hair and socks.. The ladies had also made mention of the "red-bearded" guy at the cottage they stayed, that he's not as cerebral as they but he fascinating....and they stated most of the conversation is about love, kissing so forth.
Now, some of these guys seem like class clowns some athletes...Dyatlov I see weight trained and is the Leader of this bunch...And for the sake of argument let's say Igors a bit tightly wound...Nerves are running rampant on this day-night about their 'leader,' they joke and taunt about being a bit off course, his stove is roasting them, and they make Igor twitch. Dyatlov is steamed and he physically threatened or ousted the 2, (their coats and boots near Igor and the entry) sent them out where they build a fire till he cools off.
Zina took up for the guys...it's inhuman to make them suffer...she got served a foot plant in the side. She threatened to leave and he blocked passageway and went postal.
(Her diary entry: "Igor all evening was rude, I didn't recognize him. I had to sleep on the wood near the stove."
Slice n dice it...
That has been explained in almost all websites I've read, maybe you should try reading some.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Nf9bmLrOG8
@KMM - "absence of evidence is not evidence of BL "
Correct but evidence of BL is evidence of BL.
I have yet to see any
...................................................
Surprisingly, one of the most extraordinary and astonishing versions came from none other than Lev Ivanov himself. In 1990, the retired Prosecutor published an article, “The Enigma of the Fireballs”, where he admitted that in spring of 1959, under
“When E. P. Maslennikov and I examined the scene in May, we found that some young pine trees at the edge of the forest had burn marks, but those marks did not have a concentric form or some other pattern. There was no epicenter. This once again confirmed that heated beams of a strong, but completely unknown, at least to us, energy, were directing their firepower toward specific objects (in this case, people), acting selectively.”
It is worth noting that later on, Kirilenko professed a lively interest in the UFO’s, and received memos about sightings of unidentified objects from the Chairman of the KGB, Andropov.
You've run everybody off with your senseless babble about ball lightning.
I'm sure you laugh your f*cking ass off at a lot of stupid shit.
May a BL light your way home tonite asshat.
Man-card denied.... I'm not holding your purse.
That's LC's job!
Correct but evidence of BL is evidence of BL.
"I think his view was a UFO that TARGETED the hikers. "
From Ivanov :-
I questioned many eyewitnesses who saw this UFO in the sub-polar Urals. By the way, I do not mean that these UFOs are connected with aliens. A UFO is an unidentified flying object, and that’s it. A lot of data speaks of the fact that [the UFOs] can be bursts of energy not understood by modern science, but which affect life and the environment.
Oss, Svetlana. Don't Go There: Post Mortem (p. 138). LiberWriter.com. Kindle Edition. "
That's the kinda BL i'm talking about!
@KMM... Look it over and see what you think. I won't dare post it all here because Nigel would likely shit a Volvo.... Perhaps have an aneurysm, or two. He would be caught on camera running through walmart wearing a pink tutu (ruffles), flipflops, a Cheeto stained wife-beater and a helmet screaming 'Ivanov is my daddy!'' 8^/ we're talking full blown meltdown of BL proportions.
Never once in all the sites I read did any of the BL injuries that happened to people even remotely was similar to the hikers. There were also "survivors" when the BL incidents occurred. In no way does it show that BL could have been responsible for 9 people's deaths & injuries.
The most rare and mysterious form of lightning is ball lightning. [25] A mix of fire and electricity concentrated in a fireball with a diameter of 10-30 cm, ball lightning usually appears suddenly, even in indoor conditions, during a thunderstorm. It moves quickly for several meters, can change direction, and ultimately disappears sometimes soundlessly and other times with a pop or larger explosive sound. It has a life span of several seconds, and its color is quite variable but most commonly described as white, yellow, or orange.
Ball lightning appears as glowing orbs that seem to occur during thunderstorms, usually following a lightning strike. These floating fireballs shine as brightly as a 100-watt lightbulb; can be white, yellow, orange, red or blue in color and are typically about the size of a small grapefruit, although sightings suggest they can range in size from golf ball to beach ball.
Emanating from the fireball are little tendrils that seem to jerk the ball around as if it was under the power of a spastic puppeteer. They move slowly and erratically and are followed by smoke trails that form spirals around them. And after a moment, they disappear.
But of course, in your theory, the BL forced them out of the tent, made them all walk down a snowy slope without their shoes, coats, gloves......with 2 of them in their underwear & barefoot. Let's see....then the BL beat them up, crushed Rustem's skull on both sides, crushed Luda's ribs on both sides, crushed AK's ribs on one side & removed his eyeballs, removed Luda's tongue & eyeballs, crushed Yuri's chest, snapped one of their necks so it was deformed, slammed Zina across the back like a baton/rifle & continued its compelling force til all was dead.
You are an idiot N.
@LC - No, God did not kill the hikers. People did.
'BL IS NOT THE ONLY POSSIBLE EXPLANATION AS TO WHAT HAPPENED AND ALL THEORIES SHALL BE CONSIDERED".
N.B. Ivanov did that before opting for the BL theory....
IDT Ivanov opted for BL, I think his view was a UFO that TARGETED the hikers.
@Sandy - "no thunderstorm", groan, you'd have to read the thread to understand your ignorance here, but my guess is you'll just stay ignorant.
N.B. Ivanov did that before opting for the BL theory....
@nigel... Arguments from ignorance[edit]
(Draws a conclusion based on lack of knowledge or evidence without accounting for all possibilities)
"I take the view that this lack (of enemy subversive activity in the west coast) is the most ominous sign in our whole situation. It convinces me more than perhaps any other factor that the sabotage we are to get, the Fifth Column activities are to get, are timed just like Pearl Harbor ... I believe we are just being lulled into a false sense of security." – Earl Warren, then California's Attorney General (before a congressional hearing in San Francisco on 21 February 1942).
This example clearly states what appeal to ignorance is, although we have proved that the moon is not made of spare ribs, we have not proved that its core cannot be filled with them; therefore, the moon’s core is filled with spare ribs.[4]
Say it.... Type these words in your next reply. Read carefully and repeat after me....
'BL IS NOT THE ONLY POSSIBLE EXPLANATION AS TO WHAT HAPPENED AND ALL THEORIES SHALL BE CONSIDERED"
SAY IT!!!!!! MAN UP
The University did this all the time as I have read... Besides, SZ being attached to the group in no way shape or form proves BL killed them. AND, 'if' he were kgb his mission could have been one of a thousand things such as observing the students etc as possible defectors..... Like THE UNIVERSITY WAS PARANOID OF!!
"SZ having a camera Yudin had never seen before."
AGAIN I WILL QUOTE YUDIN HIMSELF!!!!
"The money they bought was bought: food and various things and equipment needed in the trek, like a first aid kit, notebooks, pencils, materials for warming tents, etc., I DO NOT REMEMBER EVERYTHING. Backpacks, skis, boots, tent, ice ax and other equipment were received at the Institute.
https://sites.google.com/site/hibinaud/home/dopros-svidetela-udina-u-e
SZ haz a camera..... SO THE FRICK WHAT!! YOU HAVE ZERO PROOF THE CAMERA OR HIM HAVING IT WAS IN ANY WAY SPECIAL.
"Photos of lights that are attributed to SZ."
AGAIN... YOU INVENT WHAT YOU SEE LIKE SEEING MICKY MOUSE IN THE CLOUDS... AND.... YOU EXPECT OTHER THEORIES TO EXPLAIN OR OTHERWISE ADHERE? TO THIS NONSENSE
"A planned route that that they didn't follow."
AND???? CONDITIONS CHANGE, CIRCUMSTANCES CHANGE, PEOPLE CHANGE THE MINDS, IGOR WAS A RETARD, ACCIDENTS HAPPEN!!!!! THIS MEANS NOTHING!!!
"Deaths stated by the pathologist to be like from a bomb shockwave."
LIKE....LIKE....LIKE!!...AS I STATED BEFORE... IF YOU THINK ONLY A BOMB CAN BREAK RIBS OR CRACK A SKULL, YOU LIVE A VERY SHELTERED LIFE. IT WAS ALSO STATED "FORCE OF LIKE A CAR ACCIDENT"... WHERE IS THE GD CAR!?!?!?!
"Reliable witnesses reporting lights in the sky and explosions."
CAN YOU NOT HAVE REPORTS OF THIS ANYWHERE ON THE PLANET YEAR ROUND?!?! IT PROVES NOTHING!!
"And then you have all the "curiosities" - condition of the snow, hotspot, burnt trees, tanned skin, burns, three people all expire close to each other ascending the mountain."
Oh for frick sakes.... AGAIN... THERE IS ZERO EVIDENCE OF BURNT TREES AND A HOTSPOT!
ALL THREE BORK BORK..... AND?!?!?
There are 400 explanations to any given example..... THE SUN DID NOT RISE TODAY BECAUSE OF BL.
I know exactly what took the lives of these 9 people in 1959.... GOD!!!! PROVE ME WRONG!!!
"Murder theory.... Lets see here jackwagon, the murder theory DOES IN NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM NEED TO INCLUDE, EXPLAIN, OR OTHERWISE INCORPORATE YOUR THREE HEADS BULLSHIT, BURNED TREES, HOT SPOTS, MICROWAVES, COLLAPSED DEN, OR ANY OTHER HORSESHIT YOU INVENTED OR INDOCTRINATED AS GOSPEL TO FIT YOUR AGENDA. "
All very true, but it would be nice to have an explanation for that stuff (like the BL theory does). However what the murder theory DOES have to explain is the fire and the rav4 being killed by superhuman force. How many times has some idiot come on this site and explained that they foolishly lit a fire 1500m away from where the bad men had ejected them from the tent, jeez and with a WW2 veteran onboard...
"Any idiot can invent a story and create details to construct an elaborate story... Ever watch TV? "
Well you and your barmy army can't....
And what facts have i made up? Facts like :-
SZ attached to the group even though he had nothing to do with them.
SZ having a camera Yudin had never seen before.
Photos of lights that are attributed to SZ.
A planned route that that they didn't follow.
Deaths stated by the pathologist to be like from a bomb shockwave.
Reliable witnesses reporting lights in the sky and explosions.
And then you have all the "curiosities" - condition of the snow, hotspot, burnt trees, tanned skin, burns, three people all expire close to each other ascending the mountain.
All of those FACTS can be explained by a microwave ball lightning theory as postulated by some of our finest physicists whose intelligence is better yours or mine.
Time to know your place brainchild.
But yet..... You ARE! Never do you state 'may have been', 'may be', 'could have', 'perhaps' etc. If your keys are a clickin.... Your making up facts as you go along. Whats astonishing to me is the FACT that you think ALL NON BL THEORIES AND DETAILS MUST BE COMPARED TO AND/OR ALIGN WITH THE LIES YOU HAVE INVENTED. Example, A non BL theory does NOT need to explain or incorporate into detail why YOUR crazy ass fantasy shit is/isn't. THAT'S YOUR DOINGS AND YOUR FICTIONAL RATIONALIZATIONS.
Murder theory.... Lets see here jackwagon, the murder theory DOES IN NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM NEED TO INCLUDE, EXPLAIN, OR OTHERWISE INCORPORATE YOUR THREE HEADS BULLSHIT, BURNED TREES, HOT SPOTS, MICROWAVES, COLLAPSED DEN, OR ANY OTHER HORSESHIT YOU INVENTED OR INDOCTRINATED AS GOSPEL TO FIT YOUR AGENDA.
"Unlike your pathetic efforts so far, the BL theory has the uncanny knack of fitting/eplaining ALL the facts. Any idiot can construct a theory that partially explains the story leaving out the bits that don't fit, but so far afaik the only story to explain everything is BL."
Again... Brainchild, pay attention. You made up the stupid facts.... WE do not have to base other theories around them. FACT The BL explains NOTHING!.... You know why??? BECAUSE ITS ALL BEEN BUILT ON YOUR FICTIONAL LIES. FYI.... Any idiot can invent a story and create details to construct an elaborate story... Ever watch TV?
Unreal... Folks.. this guy has ZERO respect for anyone having a differing opinion and displays utter distain and contempt for anyone whom does not tow the BL line and suck his toes. He thinks YOUR theory must explain HIS elaborate fantastical made-up crap. Wow
I'm not stating them as fact, i'm stating them as part of the BL theory i'm developing (no pun) on this site.
This theory has it that SZ was KGB, equipped with a secret camera he hid from the others to photograph lights in the sky (probably that had been previously reported by military aircrew and known from mansi legend). So it follows that the camera would be state of the art for that period and SZ would be trained to use it. Hence the difference in quality between SZ's shots and YK and RS's efforts. That this photography was his mission explains the detour.
Unlike your pathetic efforts so far, the BL theory has the uncanny knack of fitting/eplaining ALL the facts. Any idiot can construct a theory that partially explains the story leaving out the bits that don't fit, but so far afaik the only story to explain everything is BL..
Rediculous how you state these wild claims as if they were fact. Where did you come up with this secret kgb super special camera crap?
FYI.... Gulags name changed and the release of non violent offenders doesn't mean squat. Its well known prisoners have escaped and found refuge or hid out in the backwoods of the urals. These people can and have been in the wild for decades, so even a name change in early 50s is moot. Talk to me about gulags, by grandmother inlaw was in one during ww2 assembling rockets and subsidizing a lack of diet by eating glycerin. Her brother lost a hand for stealing bread.
As said MANY TIMES now, the BL theory has several versions and the simplest is that BL scares them away from the tent and the rest is just bad luck, falling from trees, crushed by snow. Although i would favour a BL theory that kills the rav4 with an explosion.
Also as said before if it was a military accident/cockup then there's ABSOLUTELY NO NEED for that expensive investigation.
And it's hard to explain why SZ needed a secret camera apparently setup for night photography. Even why he was there at all. Couldn't be to stop a possible defection, one against several others with knives/axes. He was there to photograph something, that's why they made an uncomfortable detour depriving themselves of a night in the forest with a warm stove.
We all know 5 of them froze to death and their injuries were not the cause if death. When you don't read "cause if death is violent", that does NOT mean there were no injuries with a possible cause of hand/hand combat. It just means said injuries didn't cause the heart to stop.
Please note... The methanol theory does not explain the injuries of the tent3 or cedar2. I am exploring any and all theories simultaneously.
Really dude? Im finding this in NON rav4 files.
"Taking into account the above bodily injuries, Slobodin could move and crawl in the first hours from the moment of their infliction.
The death of Slobodin is violent - an accident."
Well how do the rav4 get their injuries then?
Repeating my post below because you obviously haven't read it.
Nigel Evans 09-09-2017 14:23 (GMT)
From the official files - "Decision on the termination." - This seems to be the formal closing statement of the DPI investigation. It is the official result of circa 30 men (supplied by helicopters at huge cost) investigating for three months.
"and, as it was established in the subsequent forensic expertise, the leeward side of the tent where the hikers were headlong , was cut from the inside in two places, in areas that provide a free exit of a person through these sections."
"Neither traces of the struggle nor the presence of other people were found in the tent or near it."
"Forensic medical examination found that Dyatlov, Doroshenko, Krivonischenko and Kolmogorov died from the action of low temperature (frozen), none of them had physical injuries, not counting minor scratches and abrasions. Slobodin had a crack in the skull 6 cm long, which had spread to 0.1 cm, but Slobodin died from cooling."
"The investigation did not establish the presence on February 1 or 2, 1959 in the area of ??the "1079" height of other people, except for the group of hikers Dyatlov. It is also established that the population of Mansi, living in 80-100 km from this place, is Russian friendly, presents hikers, lodges, helps them, etc. The place where the group died, in winter time it is considered Mansi unsuitable for hunting and reindeer breeding."
"Given the absence of external injuries and signs of struggle on all corpses, the presence of all the values ??of the group, and also taking into account the conclusion of forensic medical examination of the causes of death of hikers, it should be considered that the reason for the death of hikers was the spontaneous force that hikers were unable to overcome ."
I dont think so... This theory involves no such explosion that I have come across as of yet. The explosion is only needed in a BL scenario Nigel.... There isn't any evidence if an explosion to begin with.
Nigel... You know as well as I do that each official report states something similar as follows.
"Death is violent - an accident. SUD.MED.EXPERT OF THE REGIONAL BUREAU OF SUDMEDEKSPERTIZY - signature / REVIVAL / COURT.MED.EXPERT OF THE CITY OF NORTH-URALSK - signature / LAPTEV / "
And another...
"Bodily injuries of the soft tissues of the head region and "bath skin" of the limbs are posthumous changes in the body of Thibault Brignol, which was recently found in the water.
The death of Thibault Brignoles is violent."
And.... Another.
"The death of Zolotarev is violent."
And another!!
"The body injuries found on the body of Kolevatov are in the head area - defects in soft tissues, as well as "bath" skin, are posthumous changes in a corpse that was recently found before it was found in the water.
Kolevatov's death is violent."
So... Your with the case files, but yet you either lie about the contents of the case files, or you do not read them. Which is it?
I'm with the official report, no signs of violence.
Cold, predation, previous weeks strenuous activity, maybe an internal row and a fight, but not one serious injury that is clearly of human cause.
@LC - "Unbelievable hypocrisy!!! ". Nonsense, your answer was in an earlier post?
@KMM - "After this time, not a single record and not a single photograph was found. " - i think YK's and RS's blobs were assumed to be erroneous. Could be correct of course. Assuming SZ's photos are genuine, it's probable that they were KGB property and the police/prosecutor never saw them.
@LC - Methanol, at last a half decent theory, an explosive vapour being released from perhaps a rocket launch. It gives you a reason for leaving the tent and a cause of an explosion. But you've got to explain the time lag between the tent and the explosion, afaik the 2yuris need to be dead for about an hour before turning for the lividity to be incorrect. The vat of alcohol is supposed to be to wash radioactive dust off. Russian submariners were apparently given a ration each week to wash with. Haven't come across the other chemicals being discussed before, could have been some embalming process perhaps, think this is common in the US today.
--- they closed in 1956 -- or at least the Wiki site on "gulag": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulag says the last administrator was: " Sergei Yegorovich Yegorov October 5, 1954 – April 4, 1956 " Of course there were other (un-named)systems until the 1980's. The map on the gulag page doesn't show any old gulag camps near where the 9 hikers were in the Urals. Of interest might be this Wiki on the Norilsk Uprising of 1953 -- non violent and no weapons : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norilsk_uprising
or this on the political relaxing in the 1950's : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khrushchev_Thaw this is a time when Khrushchev was closing down the old Stalin system of repression. So we are left with no gulag prisoners in 1959, and no motivation for any ex-prisoners to kill anyone. Soviets were happy with the way the government was opening up.
KMM... Join my board at sksfiles.com under the same name and I'll message you some material of interest. I don't feel like posting my email for all the trolls
Yeah, I got a couple throwaways I keep for that
Lots more information inbound when everyone gets done digesting. Let me know when.
I've got reading time left, don't know if anyone else here
"March 12, 1959
Secret order deputy. prosecutor of the Sverdlovsk region Yu.N. Achimin to investigate the involvement of Mansi in the death of the Dyatlov group
Secret order deputy. prosecutor of the Sverdlovsk region Yu.N. Achimin to investigate the involvement of Mansi in the death of the Dyatlov group
Deputy Prosecutor of the Sverdlovsk Region for Special Forces Yu.N. Achimin gives a secret task to the deputy head of the Ivdel police department of the Interior Ministry, Major Bizyayev, to investigate Mansi, who might have witnessed the incident at Mount Oorten.
On the basis of this instruction, the police detain several people and torture them in the cold, knocking out their testimony about what they could see or know about the incident, in fact, the police authorities intimidate them. But after a while, making sure that people do not know anything about the incident, they release them.
The guy.. https://image.ibb.co/derbWv/hex33.jpg .
The order document... https://image.ibb.co/gQ03Bv/0_a29fc_4d10d341_xxxl.jpg
"Kikoin AK went to the search site.
A group of climbers examined the area of ??the tent and the surrounding area for avalanche danger.
https://image.ibb.co/h5NYuF/lav2.jpg .
https://image.ibb.co/cEhYuF/lav4.jpg .
What conclusions were drawn by the Moscow specialists as a result of the conducted studies is not known"
"4 days members of the route-qualification commission of the All-Union hiker Section from Moscow K. Bardin and E. Shuleshko, along with Maslennikov E.P. conducted a thorough survey of the entire terrain heights of 1079 and 880, the valleys of the 4th tributary of Lozva and the shores bounding it, the pass from Lozva to Auspiyu, the valley of the river.
Maslennikov, E.P. explores the height of 1079 and the neighborhood.
https://image.ibb.co/iDUcoa/sneg1.jpg .
https://image.ibb.co/bttRgv/sneg1_1.jpg
This structure was under the feet of Maslennikov snow, which melted under the influence of chemical precipitation. What conclusions were made by the members of the commission as a result of research on the terrain and what was reported to the top management is unknown."
"The act of investigating the corpse of Slobodin Rustem was written as if by a carbon copy with the acts of investigating the corpses of Dyatlov, Kolmogorova, Doroshenko and Krivonischenko.
After the autopsy of the dead was done in Ivdel, the corpses were sent to the Sverdlovsk military morgue, where they conducted a second autopsy to determine the causes of death.
The morgue, to identify the bodies of Igor Dyatlov and Rustem Slobodin, the tenth participant of the trek Yuri Yudin arrived. He noticed the dark brown color of the uncovered and processed corpse of Igor Dyatlov, the color of Rustem Slobodin's unprocessed corpse was ordinary. Later, the unusual dark color of all the corpses will be spoken by those present at the funerals of the children.
In the acts of SME, the color of the skin of corpses is described as reddish purple, after the morgue the color of the corpses changed and acquiredbrown shade, which was noticed at the funeral. Methanol in the gastrointestinal tract is converted dangerous poison - formaldehyde, This poison was in the corpses. To neutralize formaldehyde potassium permanganate (manganese) is used. When formaldehyde reacts with potassium permanganate, a violent reaction occurs accompanied by a high temperature, as a result of which formaldehyde rapidly boils and evaporates. Skin color acquires a tan color.
To treat the corpses in order to oxidize the methyl alcohol and volatilize the formaldehyde bodies, apparently potassium permanganate (potassium permanganate) was used. After treatment with manganese corpses acquired a brownish color, this unusual dark color surprised those present at the funeral."
"Sud.med.expert of the regional forensic medical examination bureau Vozrozhdenniy
Prosecutor of Sverdlovsk Region State Counselor of Justice of the 3rd class Klinov
Prosecutor criminalist of the regional prosecutor's office jr. counselor of justice Ivanov, witnesses: Gordo, Naskichev
The re-established put a seal of the forensic expert on the document.
The case was made, the true cause of death is hidden ...
The role of the orderly in the Ivdelsky morgue, due to lack of it, had to be done by Korotaev Vladimir Ivanovich.
He worked with corpses to hand over to Sverdlovsk the bodies of those killed for histology (the conclusion of which is not in the case).
His, a 22-year-old investigator, then surprised by one fact - after the opening of every corpse, everyone went about being washed with ethyl alcohol. For this, a barrel with alcohol was brought to the morgue.
Oxidation of methanol in the body occurs with the formation of stronger poisons - formaldehyde and formic acid. Antagonist (neutralizer, antidote) of methanol is ethanol (ethyl alcohol), which competes with methanol for oxidative enzymes and delays the formation of toxic metabolites of methanol.
When methanol hits the body or hands, they must be washed off with plenty of water. When methanol hits special equipment. clothes, it should be removed, washed in warm water, and the body washed in a shower at least 15 / pminut.
Morgue of the "p / y H-240" section of Ivdel. Korotaev V.I. was present at the autopsy of the bodies.
There was no soul in the Ivdel morgue, so it was easier and more effective - the methanol labeled with radioactive nuclide, which was saturated with frozen bodies, and which could accidentally remain on the bodies of medical workers, was neutralized with the help of ethanol.
In Ivdel at that time there was Genrietta Eliseevna Churkina, her Korotaev VI. asked to make an examination of the tent.
She drew attention to a strange shade of clothes of the dead, hung up after processing on the street.
I was present at the medical examination of corpses, which was conducted by Boris Vozrozhdenniy. I remember well, when they took off their clothes and hung them on ropes, we immediately noticed that she had some strange light purple hue, although she was of very different colors.
I asked Boris: "Do not you think that the clothes have been processed?" He agreed.
In order to exclude the possibility of erroneous use of methanol as a spirit beverage, chemical ink or another colorant of dark color, which is readily soluble in methanol, is added to it at a rate of 2-3 liters per 1000 liters of methanol.
All information from Ivdel ceased, all lived only by rumors.
Only now I understand that at this time chemical analyzes of the first 3 people found were discovered, something was discovered that was secret, that it was necessary to hide and therefore all information was classified ...
Batalova Galina Kiryanovna (Zinaida Kolmogorova's girlfriend)"
You are correct... The order in which the photos were taken have been mixed and matched over the years. I would assume the investigators knew full well the order in which they were taken and this proves without a doubt no photos were taken after this point. In other words.... The 'three heads' exposure was either (a) done during the developing process (in the lab) to snap the wound/ready shot before access to the film cartridge was possible, or (b) the exposure sequence came sometime before the tent was erected. In other words..... No picture was taken within the tent. End of debate with no conspiracy needed. Facts are facts Nigel. Your going to have to deal with them one way or another.
STATE COUNCIL OF JUSTICE OF III CLASS
(N. Klinov)
May 28 , 1959
......................
In one of the cameras, a frame (made last), which depicts the moment of excavation of snow for the installation of the tent, was preserved. Considering that this frame was shot with an exposure of I / 25 seconds, with a diaphragm of 5.6 at a film sensitivity of 65 Un. GOST, and also taking into account the density of the frame, it can be assumed that for the installation of the tent hikers started about 5 pm I of . II. 59. A similar picture was taken with another camera.
After this time, not a single record and not a single photograph was found.
Unbelievable hypocrisy!!!
Try and read my posts a bit more often, e.g. - 09-09-2017 16:11 (GMT).
Might help you with your hypocrisy...
Hi all! I have read here where a few of you believe the 9 hikers couldn't have been murdered by people since there "were no other footprints found". It is very possible to brush away your footprints in snow.
I was just posting about footprints to show that none were found around the tent, where I would think would of been the place with the most accumulation of footprints. Whether they were removed by the weather or other individuals, IDK
Helpful to whom exactly? His followers?
I can see you have great admiration for Nigel but I will have you know, HE is the person who is incapable of respective discourse. The very second I walked into this echo chamber hornets nest, I was patronized, mocked, and disrespected. Interestingly enough, I am one of very few posters who is very comfortable in stating 'I don't know exactly what happened". I am not invested in a solitary theory in which prohibits my ability to rationalize all possibilities. Its that simple. I have noticed the BL group are very arrogant and disrespectful to anyone that does not drink from the same koolaid bowl. Heck, I even complimented Nigel a few time and the action was returned with a high/mighty arrogance in which I haven't seen in quite some time. John is just a straight up narcissistic asshole..... I call it how I see it. Just how I roll.
"User45 - nothing wrong with some harmless banter over the internet. If LC has a problem it's, well lets call it "theory envy".
I do not envy any particular theory or person.... Enough said.
@LC - "specially when desperate." - i'm happy to consider any sensible theory, particularly if it has photographs"
You are desperate in which you conduct your research, or shall I say fact inventing. Grasping for any minute unknown to twist out of common sense and often content to force-fit the BL narrative. Yeah u expect readers to read your post, but ignore theirs.
From what I see, you don't have supporting photographs of your theory either. When in doubt, throw it out.... Not when in doubt, make shit up in efforts to drive a false narrative. I give respect to those who return the favor, you burn that bridge with me and I'll be on that ass like a fly on shit.
@Sandy...
This is exactly the hypocrisy I speak of. They will only observe what is visible through a narrow looking glass and reject all conflicting information and evidence. This isn't a forum of ideas and constructive conversation. It is a forum of walking the BL line or face the plank.
This would coincide perfectly that the hikers were being stalked by people. I thought this pic was a hoax but now realize it really was on NTB's camera. This is proof they weren't the only people out there.
If you are just 2 or 3 guys and in no hurry you can even step into each others tracks to appear to be only one person. Of course that wouldn't work for a whole platoon. If you have even more time, your last man can blend in your tracks by swiping through them with a pine branch manually. Less effective but faster would be simply dragging a branch behind you.
The traces of the swiping will be visible but less than tracks and will also disappear faster over time with more snow or wind.
This is most efficiently done by using snowshoes or skis and moving in a single file. If the elements are with you, wind and snow will erase the trail. There was plenty of time for further snowfall to have fallen & erased the prints also. We know it snowed a lot more as the last 4 bodies were found under 12 FEET of SNOW.
@Nigel:
Since you are always quoting from her book, why did you never mention that she also believes the hikers were murdered by people?
Svetlana Oss in her book "Don't Go There" believes that Khanty hunters who had taken Agaric Fly to get themselves in a killing mood killed Rustem Slobodin with a dynamic head kick and inflicted the chest injuries by jumping or bouncing on the chests of Yuri Doroshenko, Lyuda Dubinina and Semyon Zolotaryov. Svetlana claims, they wanted to avoid shooting so as to foil investigators which is why they sanitized the tent area, covering their footprints with snow and making the cuts themselves, thereafter forcing the hikers to discard clothing and footwear which is why Dyatlov's jacket and flashlight were found outside the tent.
Svetlana interprets frame №17 from Thibeaux Brignolle camera as a hunter who was following the group briefly emerged and this photo was taken before the figure retreated back into the woods. This would also explain their choice to pitch the tent away from the treeline. Zolotaryov and Thibeaux were almost fully clothed and wearing some kind of footwear.
I don't believe it as Kanty hunters, but agree with everything else she said.
@Nigel: I can't fathom either why you could possibly think anyone would have "theory envy" of your ludicrous BL nonsense. You should use some of Svetlana's quotes on how she thinks the 9 were murdered because she makes perfect sense.
I also reread ALL the hikers' autopsies & wow, only obvious almost all these people had the sh!t hit & kicked out of them. All those hand injuries & body injuries on even the ones that died from hypothermia. Like one of the experts had stated "bodies don't usually look like this & have all these hand to hand fight injuries when they're found perished from hypothermia".
I can't understand how anyone that reads & studies all 9 autopsies could possibly think anything else happened BUT that they had the crap just kicked/beat out of them.
@Jaime: Research "human mutilations". There's especially one (amongst many) where the poor guy was found deceased & most of his organs were "suctioned" out, amongst other weird, never seen b/4 suctions like that. I do believe at least that that poor soul was murdered by something not of this world. The cattle/animal mutations were done in just the same way. I do not believe other people have the knowledge/tools to perform these exact same mutations.
"fabric COULD HAVE been getting warm/hot which MIGHT HAVE encouraged curling"
@LC - "specially when desperate." - i'm happy to consider any sensible theory, particularly if it has photographs.....
You should respect Nigel a bit more. The man has been nothing but helpful on this subject such as it is. I check in daily to read about the new discoveries of Nigel and the "team".
You have a different view than he does, thats fine, because that is exactly what's keeping Dyatlov Pass alive, I do not want you to change your view.
Just saying that we should debate with eachother, but always respectfully. For we are with the same reason here, to seek logic and reason on a very complex subject.
Nope.... Just the mind and eyes of the beholder. Especially when desperate.
Cooling, welp lets see here...its Siberia, expect it to be cold. However your supposed 'heat' source is present in the "picture", so your cooling idea wouldn't apply at the time of the "photo".
Again... This is thick canvas and not your daughters tutu. Canvas by the very way its woven, does not curl as you imply. Your again reaching for extremely thin straws. But hey, at least I read your post.
Thanks for looking!!
"rolls eyes again. No i haven't read your recent stuff, as said if it's not concise i'm not reading it."
Hi Nigel. Sounds like a compelling rebuttal. I especially enjoyed the part where you can not read something but yet claim it to be concise. Your super human skills are legendary!
This is defeat folks..... Take a good hard look.
"I've already proven there was only one tear top/bottom in the middle of the tent from snow weight" - rolls eyes again. No i haven't read your recent stuff, as said if it's not concise i'm not reading it.
@all - As John has proposed the fabric could have been getting warm/hot which might have encouraged curling. Also if this was after one end of the tent had collapsed then the fabric would have been quite relaxed anyway.
So my theory would be that with the side of the tent at say 45 degrees, SZ pushed the lens past the top of the slit but still capturing the curled bottom. The shot being quite saturated from the luminosity of the object but still clearly showing the weave of the canvas both with light passing through it and on the edge of the cut.
Wrt the point that the film could simply be water damaged. The theory is that SZ was KGB seconded to the group with a specially provided camera for night photography which explains why Yudin never saw him use it for recreational photos. So it follows that this camera wasn't a standard commercial device but would have been engineered to a military specification. It was very probably waterproof.
Alot of this is the reason why I think its possible for the murderer to have come from within the group. There are several diary entries that to me are clear signs of Igor not acting right, and you have several guys listing after the same gal... Stranger things have happened!
All in all, the BL theory for me is taking a back seat. The more I research it and tue more Nigel and John go on about the fantastical speculation its built upon, the more I'm turned off of the idea.
There were no tracks discernible around the tent from the Dyatlov group or anyone else.
Besides, I've already proven there was only one tear top/bottom in the middle of the tent from snow weight. AND, the student search team dug it out with a shovel and axe..... The shovel and axe cut the holes on the inside of the canvas because by then, sections of it were pealed/ripped back and the inside was then facing outward. Don't you read my posts? Its all right thar in the case files.
No the horizontal lines are illuminated wind blown snow/graupnel passing across the shutter speed modulating as they rotate. So the slit base is horizontal.
Are saying you believe these there slits are whats in the picture, and the camera was turned 90 degrees?
http://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/Dyatlov-pass-tent-cuts-03.jpg
Three heads is just the given title of the photo and has much to do with it's contents as "Jaws", "Eagle" or "Plane".
There was no 'tripod' and the 'three heads' photo can literally be anything. It's unreliable data, its that simple. You look at it and see three heads... I look at it and see three fingertips in front of the lens from when the developer snapped the last shot because it was pre-wound for the next exposure when found.
Exactly, i venture 3 gloved fingertips of the left hand while using the right to trip the shutter
@all - Here's a video from the Chilean Navy of a "UFO" demonstrating in infra red what i think SZ was photographing that night. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcNALjt6dBA . 3.00 thru to 5.43.
Here the glow discharge is sub luminous but demonstrates how the rapidly it can change shape.
So one photo could be a blob, another is a plane, another is a misty mesh etc etc.
Remember if he was a KGB field operative with a secret camera then he wasn't capturing the night sky for the fun of it. Every frame had to be justifiable, he only had say 33 frames. Nothing got wasted. Imo every one of those photos are shots of what he was seeing that night.
lyudmila isn't going anywhere
Semyon isn't going anywhere
Alexander isn't going anywhere
Doubtful Rustim can comprehend going anywhere
-- I don't think I saw this before today so (here goes)
--- if something entered my tent -- something that I just saw explode and injure (badly injuring !) my fellow campers -- something I didn't understand -- but something very physical / as opposed to optical illusion -- something that knives and / or axes couldn't stop or injure -- if that blocked the entrance/exit and I thought was coming for me -- I'd slice my out of the other end of the tent ASAP !
How about Brusnitsyn.... the young hiker from the university with the party that found the tent. SURE LC, LETS GET IT ON!
"Interrogation of witness Brusnitsyn
The guys at an attempt to climb the ridge height of 1079 found an abandoned tent. In the camp they brought three cameras, Slobodin's jacket, an ice ax, which was stuck near the tent, a flashlight found near the tent and a jar of alcohol.
At four o'clock we were caught by a group of Kurikov with a walkie-talkie. A radiogram was immediately transmitted about what happened to the coordinates of the tent. By radio, we were given the task to organize a landing site for the helicopter landing and choose a place for the camp for 50 people."
Welp.... ya found the tent, rummaged around a bit, found the ALCOHOL of course! next..
"The tent is placed on a slope of height 1079. Entrance to the south. The steepness of the slope in this area approx. 20-25 °. Depth of snow up to 1.5 meters. A shallow pit was dug for the horizontal installation of the tent."
Welp.... It was actually South East and more East then South, but I digress! #%&@ these people are dense... next
"Under the tent put 8 pairs of skis down attachments. Thanks to the dense snow cover, the tent was installed very firmly. Everything is covered with already clammy snow, except for the southern skate, fortified on a ski pole and tied for a pair of skis. Under the northern ridge there was no stick."
Wait.... no stick! WHERE DID THIS BATON GO? Nigel will tell you it was broken to make super tactical BL capturing tripod. As if they had a VIDEO camera and deeded to keep it steady. (eyes roll) lets get it...
"Snow was chosen with the help of skis and ski poles. Ten people worked without any system. In most cases ("things" are crossed out - note ed.) Everything was pulled out directly from under the snow, so it was very difficult to determine where and how each thing lay. "
Did I read that correctly? "it was very difficult to determine where and how each thing lay" Good to know.... next!
" First they took out several blankets, frozen in a ball, then buckets, a stove, 2-3 sacks of breadcrumbs, boots, etc. The things in the tent are arranged in the following order. At the bottom of the bed rucksacks. Then 2-3 blankets. Next were the quilted jackets and personal belongings of the participants. Buckets, stove, ax, saw were lying at the entrance to the right. Here was part of the products: rusks, sugar, condensed milk, untied bag with a loin. The rest of the products were in the far right corner. Most of the shoes ("lying" - crossed out, comment ed.) Were placed on the left side of the tent. Two pairs - right in the middle. The rest of the things are in disorder in the tent."
2-3 sacks of breadcrumbs!!! Holy crap thats alot of rye bread!
("lying" - crossed out, comment ed.)... Ive seen this before.. It means the person being interviewed recanted or otherwise corrected a statement on the spot. (thumbs up).
"The rest of the things are in disorder in the tent." Hey hey, HEY! The top brass man-in-charge of the tent investigation just told us there was no struggle, but yet the tent contents are in DISORDER! Leaving the tent in a hurry, a scuffle, are just sloppy Johns... I mean sloppy pigs? Whatever, you decide. next!
"Apparently the group was in the final stage of dressing and preparing for the night at the time of the incident. In the near half found a few crusts from the loin. There are rusks scattered all over the tent."
https://www.google.com/search?q=rusks&rlz=1C1AOHY_enUS710US711&oq=rusks&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.2261j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 .
OMG... Rusks all over the place!!! What the hell were these people doing!!! LOL. moving one... oh you gonna like this one Nigel, trust me.
"Above all things lay a ski-slit cut into several pieces, apparently, the northern end of the tent was strengthened on it. Decide on the spoilage of the stick, given that in the group there were no substitutes it is possible only under special circumstances."
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA....... The stick (ski pole) was used as an anchor on the Northern end of the tent!!!! Actually was North West but I digress again!!! THE POINT IS..... NO FREAKING TRIPOD FOR BL VIDEO FOOTAGE. Read the GD case files!!!!!
"Where the tent was set, were about 5 hours. Nespasha dug hole, and calmly prepared for bed. About 7 o'clock something unusual still unprecedented by anybody has forced hikers to leave a tent in a panic. Running stripped, in bad weather at night from a single warm corner is possible only under pain of death. This strange phenomenon (light penetrating through the tent, sound, and possibly gases)"
And..... there ya have it. This is the first low-level BL conspiracy to surface... from a kid hiker from the university who heard of (maybe saw) Nigels famous "three heads" photo. He was interviewed some time after the incident mind you and wild stories were apparently everywhere.... You name theory... it was the talk of the town.
Successful cover up? Since when does a funeral constitute an unsuccessful coverup? This very site wouldnt exist otherwise. If they wanted to 'publicly' solve it, they would have continued the investigation in open forum. What is this.... upside down world?
Besides... there is ample amount of evidence showing the hiker in fact, did not spy on anything through peepholes, and they quite possibly did NOT cut their way out of the tent in panic. Unfortunately for you, the entire BL theory is based false assumptions. :/ Thats why my posts have gone unchallenged.
http://www.viafanzine.jor.br/site_vf/pag/5/dyatlov_part01.htm
"Those golden years for the Soviet Union were also marked by an incomparable blossoming of sports tourism, especially among students. In 1957, sports tourism was officially introduced in the USSR's Single Sports Classification. The new sport quickly became popular: it gave them the opportunity to visit new places, expand their personal horizons, make new friends and chat intimately with old friends around a fire, sing songs of their own making to the sound of a guitar, their resistance and perfect their physical preparation. Clubs specialized in sports tourism were created in almost all schools and in all institutions of higher education. Twice a year - during the winter and summer holidays - crowds of young men in waterproof jackets could be found all over the country, leaving with their backpacks for the next walk.
The UPI (Russian acronym for the Ural Polytechnic Institute), now Ural State Technical University, had prominent athletes at that time. The UPI is based in the city of Sverdlovsk (now Yekaterinburg), as it was called during the Soviet era. The city was, and still is, an important technological center, inclusive, for the military-industrial complex. In the Institute that excelled in generating so many talents for Soviet engineering, Boris Yeltsin, who would become the first president of Russia, was formed in 1955.
In December of 1958, a group of university students, all experienced hikers, planned a great hiker hike in the third and highest category of difficulty. They would pass through the north of the Sverdlovsk Oblast, seeking the summit of Mount Otorten.
Preparations for this trip extended over the months of December 1958 and January 1959, during which students were still taking their exams. The walk should only be carried out during the winter holidays.
The number of participants changed several times, as some of the students who signed up for the walk later, and for no apparent reason, refused to participate. This is a curious fact, since, according to statistics, on planes, ships or trains that suffered accidents, they did not usually present 16 to 17 percent of the passengers, as was also the case in this tragic case.
In this way, instead of the planned 14 participants, Igor Dyatlov led the walk, 10 people, six UPI students, three young engineers, who only six months had received their diplomas. Also at the beginning of the walk, a hiker camp instructor, the oldest of them all, joined the group, Semyon Zolotaryov, 37, known only to Dyatlov.
During the winter holidays of 1959, the same day January 23, several groups of students of the fourth and fifth year of the UPI left for skiing trips in various categories of difficulty.
The group that embarked on a second-rate trek to the southern Ural was led by Mikhail Sharavin, a fourth-year student. By the route of the trip of the third, or higher category of difficulty, by the Ural Polar, followed the group of students of the fourth year, under the direction of Serguei Sogrin. In the similar routes of the third category by the Ural of the North they left at the same time and, in the same wagon of the train, the groups of Yuri Blinov and Igor Dyatlov. Several groups made their trips through the classic routes of the Middle Ural.
Thus, in that winter of 1959, practically all the Ural was covered by a network of ski routes of the hiker section of the UPI sports club. That was a great achievement of amateur student tourism. In particular, they seemed attractive routes by Ural Polar, which was scheduled a new hiker experience for students UPI: it was three winter climbs to the tops of the hills Sablya, Neroyka and Telpos e z.
The route of Igor Dyatlov's group seemed no less attractive: they intended to climb the mysterious mountain of Otorten, the top of the Poyasoviy crest in the Ural of the North. In the mansi language, the name Otorten means "Do not go there".
The members of the group decided to carry out a third-degree walk, that is, in the greatest category of difficulty, dedicating it to the next XXI Congress of the Communist Party of Soviet Union (CPSU). Not only because it was then a popular practice to dedicate some of the personal achievements to the important events of the country, but also because the young people were all members of the Komsomol , the Communist Youth Union. In addition, such dedication gave the group an apparent official status, in opposition to "wild tourism."
----- you can see from this a number of things:
1) these were highly valuable students and engineers.
2) the Urals were full of student hikers that winter.
3) there is NO REASON TO SUGGEST A SECRET SOVIET PLOT TO MURDER THESE STUDENTS.
4) The last thing the Soviet Government wanted was to hear that they all died in a mountaineering accident -- this was a political disaster! The initial response was to go rescue them (they must be lost) and not to cover-up some imagined plot.
----- the semi-official status meant that there would be publicity and etc. -- what the authorities feared the most happened: they all died in a disaster. The central authorities wanted to solve this -- not cover it up.
----- if there was any cover-up it was unsuccessful to say the least --- see the many photos of the huge public funeral for the group.
----- if there were any to blame --- WHO ? --- maybe some junior party member ? --- They found none to blame.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/images/2013/02/130225112504_1_900x600.jpg
http://s.newsweek.com/sites/www.newsweek.com/files/styles/embed-lg/public/2017/06/12/nasa-artificial-clouds.jpg
http://assets.atlasobscura.com/article_images/42539/image.jpg
http://image.ibb.co/fHuHia/ia8fm.jpg
Actual photo of two such tests above... All I am saying is that this could very well be the source of many if not most atmospheric 'BL" phenomenon in the Ural area.
Even more interesting is the substances used in such tests.
A year ago, before the tragic events of February 21, 1958, the USSR launched for the first time a domestic single-stage liquid geophysical rocket R-5A intended for research and study of the upper layers of the atmosphere associated with flights at high speeds and altitudes of about 500 km using the method artificial luminous clouds (ISO).
The essence of this method was to observe the optical effects that occur when certain chemicals are released into the atmosphere. Thus, in the emission of alkali metal vapor and some other substances into the sunlight-illuminated layers of the atmosphere, resonance radiation appeared, the intensity of which at each point of space is related to the local concentration of the atoms of the substance, which made it possible to visualize the spatio-temporal structure of the formed IRF.
By photographic and spectral observations of such clouds, one can obtain information about the parameters of the atmosphere-the velocity and direction of the wind, the parameters of molecular and turbulent diffusion, temperature, electric field,
Picture of artificial aerosol clouds, photo 1Picture of artificial aerosol clouds, photo 2
Observations of artificial aerosol clouds, luminous due to scattered solar radiation, made it possible to study the regularities of scattering and transport of finely dispersed dust particles.
The simplicity and clarity of the ISO method led to its rapid spread, especially for measurements of wind speed, molecular and turbulent diffusion. Data on wind and molecular diffusion began to be obtained practically in all experiments carried out with the help of rockets, in which clouds of alkali metal atoms were created.
When using different compounds for the creation of ISO, the method of artificial formations could be applied in a very wide range of heights - practically from the surface of the earth (smoke clouds) and up to several hundred and even thousands of kilometers (barium, lithium and other artificial glowing clouds). Nitrates of alkali metals (NaNO3, KNO3, CsNO3), azides (for example - LiN3, BaN6), peroxides (for example - BaO2), alumina (AlO) were used to create the IRS.
In the USSR IS Shklovsky and VG Kurt conducted an experiment on the creation of a sodium cloud at an altitude of 430 km in 1958 and for the first time determined the density of the atmosphere at this altitude.
What could be the connection between ISO and the fireballs that were spoken about in the Urals at the time?
Artificial clouds (ISO) were created to study and predict phenomena in the upper atmosphere in regions remote from meteorological stations. Perhaps these atmospheric studies with the help of ISO were necessary during flights of air transport over the Ural mountains.
In 1959, artificial clouds could be observed above the mountains of the Urals in the form of "fireballs".
What happened then?
Are the cases of delivery of a dangerous cargo to oil and gas fields by air transport known after this tragic event?
Yes, they are known."
I didnt say they would seal it off 'if it was muder'. I am not stuck in a box and can freely explore other possibilities without a bias narrative clouding my judgment. They could have sealed it off if the surface evidence suggested military influence, some type of contamination, or both.
Q. If it was military testing why spend all that money investigating?"
I have already answered this question.
And if I tell you not all BL type phenomenon is natural?
No need to consider BL being induced it's clearly a natural phenomena.
Or it suggests that they realised they had stumbled across something after they processed SZ's secret camera that no one knew about... Something that could have military potential.
Q. Why would they seal the area if it had just been murder?
Q. If it was military testing why spend all that money investigating?
Have you ever considered the fact the state 'could' be responsible for the lights, fireballs, or BL observed within the atmosphere in the Ural region?
It's in the book - Many years after the incident, retired and residing in Kazakhstan, Ivanov gave a long and very strange interview to a local newspaper, The Way of Lenin, a substantial portion of which is presented here:
Oss, Svetlana. Don't Go There: Post Mortem (p. 134). LiberWriter.com. Kindle Edition.
Or dig out "The Way of Lenin"
They wouldn't have spent a small fortune investigating it... They'd have just made something up."
Incorrect. You need all bodies and to do at least a preliminary investigation to determine whether or not a coverup is even required. You are assuming they would have known instantly. An investigation is required to also prove no gov involvement. The very fact the case was closed so rapidly, area sealed off, and the case not revealed for decades suggests the gov had a motive to hide their involvement. Im not saying agents killed them. I saying there are many ways in which the gov can intimately have a neg effect on the civilian population without intention.
Perhaps, but its an inconvenience that cannot be proven one way or another. He wasnt the only investigator #1 and Im sure each of them had their own direction in which they would have liked to take the investigation. What 'official document' does it show him being "formally told to forget everything he knew by his superior and remove all references to the fireball subject from the official report."??
They wouldn't have spent a small fortune investigating it... They'd have just made something up.
If the state was ultimately responsible to one degree or another, you darn skippy they would close the case and seal it.
Should read - "What is not stated is that the police investigator Ivanov wanted to pursue the spontaneous force = fireballs line of enquiry further but was formally told to forget everything he knew by his superior and remove all references to the fireball subject from the official report."
"and, as it was established in the subsequent forensic expertise, the leeward side of the tent where the hikers were headlong , was cut from the inside in two places, in areas that provide a free exit of a person through these sections."
"Neither traces of the struggle nor the presence of other people were found in the tent or near it."
"Forensic medical examination found that Dyatlov, Doroshenko, Krivonischenko and Kolmogorov died from the action of low temperature (frozen), none of them had physical injuries, not counting minor scratches and abrasions. Slobodin had a crack in the skull 6 cm long, which had spread to 0.1 cm, but Slobodin died from cooling."
"The investigation did not establish the presence on February 1 or 2, 1959 in the area of ??the "1079" height of other people, except for the group of hikers Dyatlov. It is also established that the population of Mansi, living in 80-100 km from this place, is Russian friendly, presents hikers, lodges, helps them, etc. The place where the group died, in winter time it is considered Mansi unsuitable for hunting and reindeer breeding."
"Given the absence of external injuries and signs of struggle on all corpses, the presence of all the values ??of the group, and also taking into account the conclusion of forensic medical examination of the causes of death of hikers, it should be considered that the reason for the death of hikers was the spontaneous force that hikers were unable to overcome ."
What is not stated is that the police investigator Ivanov wanted to pursue the spontaneous force = fireballs line of enquiry further but was formally told to forget everything he knew by his superior.
So that's it, either the state got the investigation wrong (unlikely), OR they covered something up because of a state action (e.g. military testing) OR they wanted to investigate something in secret and shutdown the public investigation and closed the area for three years. The huge cost rules out imo a state crime or military accident no need to spend that kind of money if you already know the answer. So the latter is what was going on.
Then again, I assume thats why you dont like it. Amazing the level ignorance on your behalf. Losing respect bro.... rapidly.
Despite what you think, I do try to read everything you post. FYI... I correct that in a following post, but if you are too dense to follow my posts, thats your problem. I just proved 1/3 of your BS wrong and thats why you refuse to face the music. Sad really.... Because BL is actually plausible if you didn't muddy your own waters so much.
" Did he just testify that the NORTH FACE of the tent was torn?!?!?"
No.
He said - "A tent with a windy side was torn in the middle part."
Bit of a difference there....
Can we try and have some more concise posting please? Trawling through acres of crap trying to understand your logic is a waste of my time. I'm not bothering to read it. You never read anything i post even if it's concise....
-- if you are too impatient, I suggest you scan down the comments and read my comments and go to the links provided .
special note to Jamie -- you really need to do some reading on this DPI .
"To carry out the investigation, the young investigator VI Korotaev. was given a rugged tent, torn by search engines, which was placed in the Lenin room. http://image.ibb.co/mO7xia/pal0.jpg
The tent was in terrible condition, with multiple tears and cuts, in some places there were punctured and burned holes, and 2 large pieces of canvas were cut / torn from its side. It is impossible to imagine how it was possible to conduct research on the tent, after it was ruined by search students.
Earlier, I noted that the actions of student search engines who parried the tent and injured her, no one controlled, so for the investigation it was incorrect to investigate the state of the tent in the Lenin room.
Thus, during the study of the tent, as prosecutor Ivdel Tempalov VI claimed, there were no incisions in the tent.
However, it is worth noting that on the windy side, ie. from the side of the spur, the tent was torn in the middle part, and, as Tempalov noted, it was brought at first glance by dense snow. This is the only place where Tempalov discovered damages in the tent, which means there were no cuts from which the hikers were escaping from the tent, there was no tent!
Sections and huge holes in the tent on the other side of the spur appeared after Tempalov VI. He examined the tent and instructed the students to collect it and all the things and load it into the helicopter. The tent was frozen to dense snow, so the students cut out and pulled it out of the frozen snow and ice.
Then, according to the testimonies of the search engines, the tent dragged to the helicopter to deliver it to Ivdel for research.
Those who saw the tent after the search engine students "worked" with it attributed the cuts made by the search engines to Igor Dyatlov's group. Then, based on this false "fact", a legend was invented that Igor Dyatlov's group cut the tent during its departure.
In fact, the tent was intact and the group left it in an organized manner. Things were all brought into the tent, and the entrance to the tent was closed.
The tent itself was not torn by the wind, and only from one side, from the side of the spur, it was pressed down by dense snow, resulting in a large rupture, the reason for the appearance of which just needed to be thoroughly explored ..."
Would ya imagine that!!..... dense snow build on one side pressing down causing a rupture, along comes the students ripping, tearing, shovels and axe!
I said it once, Ill say it again. For all we know they never 'fled in panic' to begin with and its HIGHLY unlikely they were 'observing' anything outside the tent in whiteout conditions.... remember this?? http://image.ibb.co/fsd69F/dtyjdty.jpg
"Prosecutor Tempalov VI in the presence of AA Chernyshev. and witnesses examined the tent of hikers, compiled a survey report and photographed the tent after all the "investigative" events held two days earlier by the students.
After such actions the students, of course, the tent lost its original appearance, and the consequence of no trace near the tent could no longer detect. The snow around the tent was strewn with search engines, and the tracks were sprinkled ...
In the report of the inspection of the tent, Tempalov, in particular, noted that the stretches of the tent on the south side were intact, while the stretches of the tent on the north side were torn off and the whole second half of the tent was covered with snow. The tent was installed on a level platform excavated by students, with a windy side it was torn in the middle part. In his testimony, Tempalov did not say a word about the tent sections, because there were no incisions!
Tempalov wrote that in the right corner of the tent near the entrance lay food and a flask empty from alcohol or vodka (the smell was felt) and that he had the impression that the students drank vodka and had a snack. This was the first version and an attempt by the investigative authorities to falsify the cause of the death of hikers.
In the blood of students, alcohol was not detected (methyl alcohol - not alcohol, but poison)."
Sounds about right!
AHHHH Mr.Chernyshev was there with Tempalov! Lets see what he says....
"The record of the interrogation of the witness Chernyshev
The tent already had a group of Slobtsov, Karelin, Maslennikov was there.
The search for this day was conducted by Moiseev with the dogs and they found the corpse of Kolmogorova and Dyatlov on the same day."
Great... these are the other fubar tent rummaging students... have to look into them!!! continue..
"On the second day, search groups were organized, and I with the prosecutor Tempalov and with him a man of up to 10 went to excavate the tent.
The tent was discovered on the slope of the peak "1079", 100-150 m from the top to the northeast. At first glance, the tent seemed snowed, but when we looked at it, we saw that the tent on the entrance side held on to the central peg and was well reinforced with ropes. Another of its edges, too, stayed on the wheel, but since The middle of the tent was covered with snow, and the skylights of the tent on the windward side were severely torn, then the edge sank and was under the snow."
You read that?? "skylights of the tent on the windward side were severely torn" WINDWARD SIDE WAS TORN
So with all this talk of high ass winds etc and statements like this..... You telling me there is NO CHANCE of the darn tent ripping from flap flap flappin in the winds for WEEKS rubbing on god knows what inside?? I call major BS man, MAJOR BS! And dont give me the "oh there was eyelets cut to watch the BL" horse crap.... you have no clue where, when or why those smaller three horizontal holes were made! I told you.... READ THE DARN DIARIES! For petes sakes.... here it is again!
DIARY OF ZINA
It was much easier to go yesterday without backpacks,
snow, snow, snow, snow
on the banks froze.
rivers snow snow
.
Lunch was an hour at 4 pm
"After dinner I did just one transfer and stopped to rest. I sewed up the tent. We lay down to sleep. Igor all the time was rude, I just did not recognize him. I had to sleep on the wood near the stove."
This damn tent was riddled with holes and in constant need of sewing repair!!!!! Folding, dragging, wet freeze, unfold, rip, oops.. Its also common to store anchoring gear for the tent folded up with it!
I DIGRESS AGAIN!!! Back to the Chernyshev interrogation!
" In the tent was impossible to shove; all of it was covered with snow and how things were located it was possible to consider only when digging it. The tent was installed capitally. On the snow was prepared a level platform, on the snow laid skiing surface up, on them the bottom of the tent was already lying. In the tent below were laid quilted jackets (aside from the slope), backpacks empty were laid out on the tent. In the same side of the tent (to the slope) each lay personal things."
Right.... I see whats going on here. The items were removed while DIGGING IT... LIKE WITH A FREAKING SHOVEL!! Talking about eye level cut.... Just what is the shovel-head width comparison to those slits Nigel..... Hmmmmmmm?? Think McFly!
More from my secret source... witch is dead on to the case files BTW.
"Tempalov photographed the camera and instructed her to disassemble, put things in their backpacks and move them to the camp ...
We disassembled a ten-man tent covered with a hard snow with shovels!
According to the former judge of Ivdel in 1959 Novokreschenova GV. Korotaev V.I. said that ... "the tent was covered with snow, and the snow was very hard. I had to use an ax, cut it with an ax and, of course, crippled it."
At the same time, there was no system to free the tent from snow. First they took out a few stale blankets, then buckets, a stove, two or three sacks of biscuits, shoes and other things. Things were stacked in backpacks, and dragged the tent to the search engine camp.
Naturally, after such manipulations on the tent, sections and torn pieces could appear."
BINGO..... a complete mishandling of evidence. NOW YOU TELL ME NIGEL... If this tent was flap flap flappin in gale force winds for weeks and a chunk tore back starting at an existing tear/hole OR a student (amateurs first on scene) ripped it open (you admitted they did) and the section was PEALED BACK..... You get after that tent digging it out of hard snow with an AXE AND SHOVEL..... THE CUTS WILL NOW BE ON THE INSIDE OF THE CANVAS THAT WAS PEALED BACK AND COVERED IN SNOW!!!! WOW... Freaking amazeballs!!!
"stretches of the tent from the north side were torn off and the whole second half of the tent was covered with snow"
Ok.... North E side torn, my mistake. Your safe on this one Nigel. For now. Rofl.
"Interrogation of witness Brusnitsyn
The guys at an attempt to climb the ridge height of 1079 found an abandoned tent. In the camp they brought three cameras, Slobodin's jacket, an ice ax, which was stuck near the tent, a flashlight found near the tent and a jar of alcohol.
At four o'clock we were caught by a group of Kurikov with a walkie-talkie. A radiogram was immediately transmitted about what happened to the coordinates of the tent. By radio, we were given the task to organize a landing site for the helicopter landing and choose a place for the camp for 50 people."
Welp.... ya found the tent, rummaged around a bit, found the ALCOHOL of course! next..
"The tent is placed on a slope of height 1079. Entrance to the south. The steepness of the slope in this area approx. 20-25 °. Depth of snow up to 1.5 meters. A shallow pit was dug for the horizontal installation of the tent."
Welp.... It was actually South East and more East then South, but I digress! #%&@ these people are dense... next
"Under the tent put 8 pairs of skis down attachments. Thanks to the dense snow cover, the tent was installed very firmly. Everything is covered with already clammy snow, except for the southern skate, fortified on a ski pole and tied for a pair of skis. Under the northern ridge there was no stick."
Wait.... no stick! WHERE DID THIS BATON GO? Nigel will tell you it was broken to make super tactical BL capturing tripod. As if they had a VIDEO camera and deeded to keep it steady. (eyes roll) lets get it...
"Snow was chosen with the help of skis and ski poles. Ten people worked without any system. In most cases ("things" are crossed out - note ed.) Everything was pulled out directly from under the snow, so it was very difficult to determine where and how each thing lay. "
Did I read that correctly? "it was very difficult to determine where and how each thing lay" Good to know.... next!
" First they took out several blankets, frozen in a ball, then buckets, a stove, 2-3 sacks of breadcrumbs, boots, etc. The things in the tent are arranged in the following order. At the bottom of the bed rucksacks. Then 2-3 blankets. Next were the quilted jackets and personal belongings of the participants. Buckets, stove, ax, saw were lying at the entrance to the right. Here was part of the products: rusks, sugar, condensed milk, untied bag with a loin. The rest of the products were in the far right corner. Most of the shoes ("lying" - crossed out, comment ed.) Were placed on the left side of the tent. Two pairs - right in the middle. The rest of the things are in disorder in the tent."
2-3 sacks of breadcrumbs!!! Holy crap thats alot of rye bread!
("lying" - crossed out, comment ed.)... Ive seen this before.. It means the person being interviewed recanted or otherwise corrected a statement on the spot. (thumbs up).
"The rest of the things are in disorder in the tent." Hey hey, HEY! The top brass man-in-charge of the tent investigation just told us there was no struggle, but yet the tent contents are in DISORDER! Leaving the tent in a hurry, a scuffle, are just sloppy Johns... I mean sloppy pigs? Whatever, you decide. next!
"Apparently the group was in the final stage of dressing and preparing for the night at the time of the incident. In the near half found a few crusts from the loin. There are rusks scattered all over the tent."
https://www.google.com/search?q=rusks&rlz=1C1AOHY_enUS710US711&oq=rusks&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.2261j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 .
OMG... Rusks all over the place!!! What the hell were these people doing!!! LOL. moving one... oh you gonna like this one Nigel, trust me.
"Above all things lay a ski-slit cut into several pieces, apparently, the northern end of the tent was strengthened on it. Decide on the spoilage of the stick, given that in the group there were no substitutes it is possible only under special circumstances."
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA....... The stick (ski pole) was used as an anchor on the Northern end of the tent!!!! Actually was North West but I digress again!!! THE POINT IS..... NO FREAKING TRIPOD FOR BL VIDEO FOOTAGE. Read the GD case files!!!!!
"Where the tent was set, were about 5 hours. Nespasha dug hole, and calmly prepared for bed. About 7 o'clock something unusual still unprecedented by anybody has forced hikers to leave a tent in a panic. Running stripped, in bad weather at night from a single warm corner is possible only under pain of death. This strange phenomenon (light penetrating through the tent, sound, and possibly gases)"
And..... there ya have it. This is the first low-level BL conspiracy to surface... from a kid hiker from the university who heard of (maybe saw) Nigels famous "three heads" photo. He was interviewed some time after the incident mind you and wild stories were apparently everywhere.... You name theory... it was the talk of the town.
From the official case files. You like Maslennikov Eugene Polikarpovich dont you?
"Protocol of interrogation of the witness Maslennikova EP
Most of the tent was occupied by Brusnitsyn, who will tell about the location of things in it better than me. reading that there was a prosecutor of Tempalov at the tent and a sufficient number of people I went down to the search group, tk. It was necessary to activate the search for people. "
Ok, Seems this guy is not the droid we are looking for in regards to whats in the tent... GREAT! ...... continue
"There were 9 backpacks in the Dyatlov's tent, 10 pairs of lies, of which 9 pairs under the tent floor, 8 pairs of shoes, 3.5 pairs of boots (7 pcs.), Several tealings and other property.
When the inspection of the tent was over, we dragged her to the helipad at a distance of 600-700 meters. "
DRAGGING! REALLY!?!? Meh, lets go find this Tempalov guy.
"Interrogation of witness Tempalov V.I.
Inspection of the tent showed me that it contains all the personal belongings of the students.
The tent was stretched on skis and sticks, hammered in the snow, its entrance was turned to the south, and from this side the stretches were intact, and the stretches of the tent from the north side were torn off and the whole second half of the tent was covered with snow. The tent had an ice ax, an extra pair of skis. On the tent was a Chinese lantern in the unlit state. 9 backpacks, 9 pairs of skis were found in the tent, all of them were under the tent floor, 8 pairs of shoes, 3.5 pairs of boots, quilted jackets and many biscuits, half a sack of sugar, a large number of concentrates, cereals, soups, etc. , cocoa, axes, saw, cameras, diaries of students, documents and money. At first glance, the tent was covered with snow. It was installed on a platform leveled by the students dug out. A tent with a windy side was torn in the middle part. The bottom of the tent was covered with padded jackets, backpacks and personal belongings of students. In the right corner, near the entrance there was a part of the products: cans of condensed milk, 100 grams of sliced ??fat, rusks, sugar, a flask empty from alcohol or vodka, the smell was felt, just like a jar with a drink (poured?) Prepared for consumption, the cocoa was diluted with water and naturally froze, a large knife was found near the bacon of a sliced ??me"
HOLY SHITBALLS!!.... Did he just testify that the NORTH FACE of the tent was torn?!?!? I thought the ENTIRE BL theory revolved around them escaping to the treeline to the NORTH to escape the BL to the SOUTH!!!! Your BL theory just took a gigantic shit in one sentence! MANY BISCUITS!... two sacks to be exact. but I digres ... lets continue..
"I installed the knife belonged to the students. I got the impression that the students drank vodka and had a snack. Boots there were in the tent and put near the feet of the students so it seemed to me, there were 7 pieces of felt boots immediately. In the case in the middle of the tent a stove was found. And many other personal belongings of students and public equipment, there were buckets, axes, mugs, cups in the tent. At the top of the tent a Chinese flashlight was found, which was closer to the entrance, near the exit from the tent I found a trace of the fact that one of the students had recovered easily. This track is old."
Wait wait wait..... lets look at this sentence again. "In the CASE in the MIDDLE of the tent a stove was found" WOOT! lts continue..
"Without me no one came to the tent and the tracks near the tent were not ours. I have not established any traces of struggle in the tent. If there was any struggle, it would be natural, something would be installed by me. From this point of view, I carefully searched and inspected the tent, but there were no signs of struggle, at least nothing said about it. The tent was located on the slope of the mountain. Descent from the tent steep and on the nast (dense snow). The descent is 2.5 km. There is no forest on the slope of the mountain, except for rare birches closer to the river. This descent, where in essence there are frequent winds."
Only one on site (at the time he inspected), no struggle (that he could tell), and BIG winds.. gotcha.... carry on.
"At the bottom of the tent 50-60 from us on the slope, I found 8 pairs of traces of people that were carefully examined, but they were deformed due to winds and temperature fluctuations. I failed to establish the ninth track and it was not there. Traces I photographed. They walked down from the tent. Traces showed me that people were walking normally down the mountain. Traces were visible only in the 50 meter section, there were no further them since the lower the mountain the more snow. At the bottom of the mountain flows a river up to 70 cm deep, as if from a ravine in which the depth of snow in places reaches 2 to 6 meters in thickness."
So..... 8 Sets, 9th was not there, and they walked. Awesome! Weird, but Awesome-sauce. next!
"From documents, diaries of students, records of the latter it is clear to me that the students died on February 1 or 2, 1959. From a number of testimonies of witnesses it is clear to me that these days in the mountains and not only in the mountains there was a strong wind and it was very cold . Based on the discovered corpses (in the number of five people), the situation in which they were to me it becomes clear that all the students were frozen, the attack on them is excluded. It's my personal opinion"
Cold as shit and windy as all get-out.... Gotcha! Not attacked... personal opinion.... Great... opinions... Just finds 5 pop-sickle cadavers and makes an assessment. Gee.... I cant help but wonder why no evidence of an attack was looked into on the scene! Mr.Jackwagon saw 5 frozen bodies covered in snow and had his mind made up. COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE!!!! lets go..
"The final opinion can only develop after the discovery and inspection of all other students, i.e. 4 more people."
Oh.... now you start to think about the dumb shit you just said....... sure. Moving on now...
"All students could leave their tent only because in the strong wind someone of them at the time when he left the tent blew the wind and this man raised a cry. The student was frightened, rushed out of the tent and were blown away from her by the wind, but with (...?) -windra they could not get into the tent again. And they froze. Of course, such a conclusion can only be made on the basis of the five corpses of students found. What is the cause of the death of the other 4 students I do not know, because their corpses have not been found yet. If these 4 students die due to freezing, the above version will be correct."
Oh whateva... the translation dates a dump sometimes, but it sounded like another Nigel (I know exactly what was said and done) hub hub comment. Lets see that last part again.
"
What is the cause of the death of the other 4 students I do not know, because their corpses have not been found yet. If these 4 students die due to freezing, the above version will be correct."
BINGO.... you were wrong-duck-dong.
What shall we look into next? Ill find something. TONS to look through.
@John.... Go intercourse yourself with your garden cucumber.
http://www.rjlm.ro/system/revista/15/199-202.pdf .
Probably applies more to NTB than RS as he had associated haemorrhaging.
"February 27 Maslennikov himself arrived at the tent and started to inspect it with great and meticulous care. A stove lay next to the entrance of the tent, but it was disassembled and in [its] cover. There was a single log outside the tent. We also noticed, almost all their things were in place: a bucket, axes, and cups. In his later testimony, Sharavin added that the stove was full of unburnt wood.
Oss, Svetlana. Don't Go There: Post Mortem (pp. 49-50). LiberWriter.com. Kindle Edition. "
Only in your head...
I have completely debunked the "hotspot" and you damn well know it.
"I don't accept that Zina was hit by a baton, THEY were dragging a sled for days over rough ground with a rope tied around their waist..."
Hope you don't mind, I made a single word in your statement above stand out. You idea is crap because Zina is the ONLY person to have this injury. In addition, YOU READ THE DAMN REPORTS..IT WAS NOT A DAYS OLD BRUISE.
Thats fine... I'll be home in a few hrs and burry this thread with information from a tower PC.
Not really, it was a dark night so whatever they were looking at must of been illuminated.
"IF they were looking out at something that scared them WHY would the go TO that thing."
Maybe it was coming to them? The tracks suggest they went around the hotspot.
Oss, Svetlana. Don't Go There: Post Mortem (pp. 202-203). LiberWriter.com. Kindle Edition. "
The other slits along the top of the tent (at eye height) were to observe something out there in the dark (only on one side). The three heads photo is imo a photo of it catching the folds and weave of the canvas fabric - http://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Zolotaryov-camera-01.jpg .
(much like nigel does)
You are being the blockhead.
Have a good weekend.
You can't explain the injuries with your BL nonsense. And rats?? Seriously dude?? You REALLY think rats did some of the injuries??
Wow. I'm at a loss for words. Rats did not do that.
You think their corpses looked calm?? I wonder if their parents would agree. Sorry Nigel, but you're a blockhead. You can't be reasoned with as you're one of these people that "always have to be right".
Your BL theory stinks & doesn't match up with anything really. Time for me to leave work & gone til MON!! Please take another look at their deceased pics. These poor people look anything BUT CALM..... They look filled with sheer terror as one would look as they stare death right in the face & know they're going to die right now......
The encountered lividity demonstrates that the process was happening that night.
They didn't use the stove that last nite.
And it wasn't "something" that blocked their exit, it was "someone(s)" as in human.
With a Yeti, would have been blood all over.
Aliens? They don't murder humans like that.
@Nigel - We have to agree to disagree.
Oh yes, but it's more fun this way.
You fail to see the obvious as your need for it to be your theory of BL is too strong & overrides your common sense.
No it's just what i think, part of the case for BL is that no other theory stacks up as well.
I agree that there isn't one injury, but in all NINE! Even ID that was about the only one to just expire from hypothermia had his hands/knuckles beat up from punching and defending punches.
Maybe there was a fight, maybe it was rodents, maybe it was digging the ravine 4 out of the snow. Doesn't really support a murder theory imo.
To me, it CLEARLY shows these 9 people were all beaten to sh!t but only some of them expired from hypothermia. How do you think BL made ALL their hands look like that? Tell me how it crushed 2 of their skulls & broke 2 sets of ribs? Crushed a chest cavity? Hit Zina with either a baton or rifle?? Only obvious she was attacked from behind.
The BL theory only explains how they left the tent and how the ravine 4 died from superhuman force. I don't accept that Zina was hit by a baton, they were dragging a sled for days over rough ground with a rope tied around their waist...
Again, your passion to be "right" is clearly clouding your judgment & you are only seeing what you want to see. BL killing these 9 people is like saying the sky is purple.
Don't think so again part of the case for the BL theory is that it's the only one to fit the facts. The BIG problem with the murder theory is the question "how could they have been so stupid to light a fire?". LC answers this by deciding it was internal violence.
Go read their autopsies again. Pay special attention to their hand abrasions/scratches/knuckles bruised and skinned........abrasions to their faces.....dried blood on almost all mouths....tongue cut at the root while she was still alive to have swallowed the blood......being knocked down by BL over & over til both sides of the skull is crushed.....the sheer terror on their faces isn't from BL but evil humans.
Believe me i've read the autopsies more than you. The is nothing there to suggest the tongue was cut or that she swallowed any blood, it's a myth.
Also i don't see terror in their faces, in fact they seem quite calm.
You didn't answer the questions I posted about BL sustaining the injuries in about 5 or 6 of them?
Nigel. The point is... Your simply ignoring and attempting to write-off facts that do not support your BL theory. Its that simple. Several victims found on their backsides.... Why did they not bleed out of their ass or otherwise have a rat chew off a buttcheek!?!?. Your assertion is moot.
#1. Its common sense... Blood no longer flowing will settle with gravity BUT, that does not mean blood platelets stop containing blood where it belongs..... Not going to bleed out your ass anytime soon after you die. Dont worry about the new drawers getting blood soiled.
#2. Bodily fluids I'm sure can leak from a body cavity some time after death during a certain decomposition period BUT, unfortunately for you, their bodies were frozen solid as a rock with minutes of dying. Humans are mostly water, and said water is absorbed into every level of tissue. Ever seen water freezing right befor your eyes? Again... I don't think you grasp the severity of the temperatures.
https://youtu.be/rTYsohr5Z-I
In "Death on the Trail" (D.O.T.T.), the Russian author believes Rustem Slobodin was the first to die. He believes he attempted to attack the "robbers" at the tent & he was beat in the head then by the attackers. He was still alive & didn't die right away from his head injuries. Where he was found was where he had finally dropped & expired from hypothermia, but due to his horrific blunt trauma head injuries, his hypothermia was brought on much faster. He even suggests that Igor was heading back towards the tent to find Rustem but he died from hypothermia along the way.
I believe Loose Cannon posted his theory very similar to this.
I don't know if I believe Rustem was the first to die or not. It makes good sense that the 2 Yuri's at the cedar tree were the first 2 to die.
Very contentious statement. NTB was VERY well dressed for the cold (probably on watch) in particular he had two hats - by a tightly tied green woollen sports cap with three round holes sized 3 x 3 cm located in the front. A khaki canvas fur helmet with a zipper fastener [like a flying helmet]; the helmet is drawn by a cord.
Oss, Svetlana. Don't Go There: Post Mortem (p. 215). LiberWriter.com. Kindle Edition.
NTB gloves were in his pocket and AK was found with his jacket unzipped. Imo they were inside a shelter. Whatever NTB's head wouldn't have been cold.
You stated "The main point here is that many of the smaller injuries you categorize as "combat" or "BEAT TO SHIT" are ambiguous and could have other causes.
In fact there is NOT ONE injury that is CLEARLY caused by human violence. Everyone of them has an alternative solution."
You fail to see the obvious as your need for it to be your theory of BL is too strong & overrides your common sense.
I agree that there isn't one injury, but in all NINE! Even ID that was about the only one to just expire from hypothermia had his hands/knuckles beat up from punching and defending punches.
To me, it CLEARLY shows these 9 people were all beaten to sh!t but only some of them expired from hypothermia. How do you think BL made ALL their hands look like that? Tell me how it crushed 2 of their skulls & broke 2 sets of ribs? Crushed a chest cavity? Hit Zina with either a baton or rifle?? Only obvious she was attacked from behind.
Again, your passion to be "right" is clearly clouding your judgment & you are only seeing what you want to see. BL killing these 9 people is like saying the sky is purple.
Go read their autopsies again. Pay special attention to their hand abrasions/scratches/knuckles bruised and skinned........abrasions to their faces.....dried blood on almost all mouths....tongue cut at the root while she was still alive to have swallowed the blood......being knocked down by BL over & over til both sides of the skull is crushed.....the sheer terror on their faces isn't from BL but evil humans.
@Anna: Good points. I agree with everything you just wrote. You were the first person when I found this site that I came across & stated they were murdered by humans. You're exactly right & I agree with you 100%.
CE399_ 19-10-2016 20:09 (GMT)
Comment to all previous posts:
1. Zina Kolmogorova's postion at death is not mysterious at all. Zina was romantically involved with both of the men whose bodies were closest to her body. The group had split up at some point with some of them forming an expedition to try to get back to the tent. The "tent" subgroup was Zina, Dyatlov and Slobodin. Zina was the best clothed, strong and athletic but had been struck in the side and back with something resembling a baton (or butt of a rifle). She made it the furthest of any in the "tent" expedition but of course, succumbed to hypothermia. The "tent" expedition was ill-fated because no one was properly clothed and all had sustained injuries and expended too much energy most likely fighting off their attacker(s).
2. The attacker(s) killed Thibeaux-Brignolle most likely because he tried to be heroic in trying to defend the girl in the group who was closest to him in age. His injuries are consistent with an impulsive young man who is killed by a much more experienced fighter wielding a long, hard object like a baton, rod or rifle. Zina's injuries are also consistent with such a weapon and more closely match what a male assailant who was an experienced fighter would do to woman who tried to attack him.
3. Regarding the so-called "lack of external injuries". The medical examiners were mediocre. All of the victims were experiencing various stages of advancing hypothermia when they sustained injuries. Bruising is not seen because blood flow is retracted from the skin of a hypothermic person. The body concentrates blood into the vital organs when it becomes hypothermic. I have personally experienced this happening very rapidly and very acutely. A cut on hypothermic skin that is shockingly deep may not bleed at all. In a particular episode of M*A*S*H a patient is said to have survived because he was "frozen" and would have bleed to death in warmer weather. The television series was known for its on-set medical advisors who took real accounts of combat from the Korean War and adapted them accurately for the show. The only thing that is not entirely accurate about the episode is that the soldier was not "frozen" because freezing kills tissue and bursts vessels. The soldier was hypothermic and his blood flow was restricted so much to the area of the wound that it did not bleed. The noticeable lack of "external injuries" is due to hypothermia. Remember, people are quite conscious and alive when their bodies begin to react to hypothermia.
4. I have lived a number of years above the Arctic Circle. Lights, fireballs, and other strange luminescent events are common. People in the lower latitudes only know about "the Northern Lights" but there is a whole range of strange and spectacular things that happen at the higher latitudes. And it's not all lights either. Sound events often occur too, with and without lights. I have heard and seen things that I would think were alien ships whizzing by or crashing if I wasn't an engineer with a physics education. The amount of energy deflected and channeled by the earth's magnetic field is enormous and causes all sorts of light and sound shows at the higher latitudes.
Everyone wants to treat the fireball events seen around the time of the Dyatlov tragedy as special. Sorry, that sort of thing is not special at all. Go spend a couple winters up there and you'll see. I have. And I am not impressed at all by the stories. They are as common as hurricanes in Florida. Sure, some are bigger than others and some seasons have few and others a lot. But what was seen was not unique.
If you take any story in isolation, it can be made out to be a spectacular or strange occurrence.
How many accounts of the Dyatlov incident mention that the lights in the sky seen at that time were also seen before and after that day for many days and from year-to-year? And none of the witness accounts of the "halos" are certain to have occurred exactly on the day when the group perished which is another issue.
Group infighting does not explain the hurried exit from the tent unless someone pulled a gun on the rest of the group. Or say, grabbed Lyuda and threatened to slit her throat if the rest of the group didn't do as he said.
His theory ends with it being Yuri Yudin, the 10th hiker, that comes back with a couple men and murders them. NO way that happened either. All his other statements until that point are certainly a possibility. Yuri Yudin loved them and vice versa.
Granted skull fractures need another reason like falling.
The main point here is that many of the smaller injuries you categorize as "combat" or "BEAT TO SHIT" are ambiguous and could have other causes.
In fact there is NOT ONE injury that is CLEARLY caused by human violence. Everyone of them has an alternative solution.
That is a very strong fact for the murder theorists to answer.
note to Sandy -- there is a definite difference between BL and regular lightning -- they are related but not the same -- I do recognize that the two may sometimes have similar visual appearances and are thus confused in the reporting. (like the example I cited -- which I think is normal lightning -- and a very dangerous thing to do -- don't try this at home, as they say.)
So you don't even believe your own dribble, yet present it to be evidence of BL ???
To Loose Cannon. Yes, it is true that the pictures do not look anything like the hikers, especially Doroshenko.
While the experiment was under way, ball lightning appeared and travelled down the string, struck Richmann's forehead and killed him. The ball had left a red spot on Richmann's forehead, his shoes were blown open, and his clothing was singed. His engraver was knocked unconscious. The door frame of the room was split and the door was torn from its hinges.[12]
How does his injuries in ANY way, shape or form explain the 9 hikers' injuries?? His shoes were blown open?? I'm not surprised to read this. Lightening can be very lethal. This doesn't compare to what happened with the hikers.
NO WAY IS ANY FORM OF LIGHTENING, BALL OR OTHERWISE, GOING TO KILL NINE DIFFERENT PEOPLE AT DIFFERENT TIME FRAMES, IN DIFFERENT LOCATIONS & IN MANY DIFFERENT INJURIES.
What part of this can't Nigel/John comprehend?? Even in lightening attacks, there are survivors and any form of lightening has never killed a large group of people with different attacks.
The horse is dead. D-e-a-d. I'm through as well with writing anymore absurdity about all those 9 people being killed by BL. Impossibly absurd. The.End.
Georg Richmann[edit]
A 1753 report depicts ball lightning as having been lethal when professor Georg Richmann of Saint Petersburg, Russia, created a kite-flying apparatus similar to Benjamin Franklin's proposal a year earlier. Richmann was attending a meeting of the Academy of Sciences when he heard thunder and ran home with his engraver to capture the event for posterity. While the experiment was under way, ball lightning appeared and travelled down the string, struck Richmann's forehead and killed him. The ball had left a red spot on Richmann's forehead, his shoes were blown open, and his clothing was singed. His engraver was knocked unconscious. The door frame of the room was split and the door was torn from its hinges.[12]
-- I posted a pile of these. Apparently KMM didn't see that one either (and don't bother answering this as I am not responding to your useless posts of phony analysis)
LC -- I thought you were some sleep-deprived and angry 12 year old (you have the mentality of one --- or maybe a 10 year old) --- but in one of your curse-word filled rants (against either me or the ball-lightning hypothesis) you said something that changed my mind --- what you said / called me, was a "pantywaist" ! A "PANTYWAIST" ! No has used that word in the last half century ! I had to look the word up to be sure of its meaning, and then research its use. (see: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pantywaist --- which said its first use was in 1910 ! ) That word went out of use as a descriptive noun in the 1920's after which it was more used as an insult (implying: "sissy" ) however by the 1930's it had become a comic pejorative -- its last known use was in a B&W Bob Hope movie from the early 1950's ! ------ I now think we're dealing with an angry sleep-deprived 80 year old ! Dude! Is your hair white ? Do you have any hair left ? --- and most importantly ...... Do you take your teeth out when you go to bed ?
--- special note to Loose Shorts or whatever your name is: the BBC reports that your source of secret information, Alex Jones, of info wars, has declared hurricane Irma ...... a category 6 ! .... in spite of the fact that no such category exists ! (see: http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-41187164 )
--- as for Nigel, Anna, and a few others who are really interested in this sad accident -- and might even solve it -- I will be glad to comment / correspond on this site as my time allows -- I am fascinated by the enormous power that lightning and ball-lightning conveys and the possibility that we don't know what the heck it is, but that it is probably related to both plasma physics phenomena and radiant microwave energy in some highly unusual way. WHAT A FANTASTIC AND BEAUTIFUL WORLD WE LIVE IN ! I'm off to water the garden -- gd'day.
I also would have thought the 4 bodies that had 12 ft. of snow piled on them from Feb - May when they were found, would have been much more preserved than they were.
Lividity can be a useful reaction in determining the position of a body at the time of death and even whether a body was moved within the first few hours after death. When the blood cells begin to decompose, the release of the blood forms a bluish-purple bruise.
Lividity can also result when blood flow ceases after death. The blood that was formerly flowing through the body can be drawn to the lowest point in the body by the influence of gravity. For example, if a victim was lying on her right side at the time of death, lividity would be evident on the right side of the face, hip, and on the areas of the right arm and leg that were closest to the ground.
It is known for a FACT that some of the bodies had indeed been turned over.
Maybe Sandy, KMM, and Anna will find this interesting? I dunno
http://samlib.ru/k/kizilow_g_i/too_many_people_in_diatlov_group.shtml#ri4
Nigel - if that's all the ques. you need answering then it's pretty obvious just how all the injuries are indeed covered and administered by humans, probably soldiers, agents, some type of experts in hand to hand combat.
I find it almost laughable how you hang onto that ridiculous BL theory & that you think balls of anything could have sustained ALL nine people's injuries!! You're like a junk yard dog when you get ahold of something - you just can't let go.
Nigel/John: You are beating a dead horse. Stop it.
And to Anna: There was never a "storage house" for the robbers to "hide in".
@ Loose Cannon - it wasn't even a piece of soldier legging, more like a small patch torn off from a uniform or coat. Also, your 1st paragraph about Igor/Zina possibly heading back to help is very plausible & that is even mentioned in Death on the Trail.
@Loose Cannon - In D.O.T.T. (Nigel, see above), it was said that there were plenty of dry branches much lower down on the cedar tree that could have been retrieved to use for fire. That it didn't make much sense to go for the way higher up branches, unless someone was either trying to ascertain what was going on at the tent & the robbers or else after Yuri 2 had witnessed Yuri 1 being murdered by sitting on his chest & crushing it, thence the gray liquid found on his cheek. This comes from having your chest cavity crushed. Yuri 2 stayed in the tree as long as he could as he knew he would be murdered next. When Yuri 2's frozen hands couldn't hold on any longer & he fell hard, injuring himself & already almost dead from hypothermia. The "robbers" saw this & left him to die. Nothing further needed to be done, he would be dead soon.
ALL their injuries prove that almost ALL of them had been beaten to death like Loose Cannon posted. They were no match against soldiers.
The reason I believe Lyuda was alive when her tongue was severed L.C. is due to the fact that she had blood in her stomach and had swallowed the blood to get it there. She had to still be alive for this to happen.
I don't know how anyone could possibly believe that balls of ANYTHING personally stalked & killed NINE people and have SO MANY DIFFERENT injuries & most stemming from being beat to death & fighting back themselves. They weren't fighting fireballs, ball lightening or orange orbs.......Had this been the case, the injuries would have been different & I don't believe all 9 would have died. There would have been some survivors.
Nothing like this has EVER happened where a large group of people all die together with like injuries & no survivors.
I think the Yeti theory works better than BL folks.
Yeah... Really looks to be a varmint infested environment to me. NOT!
http://www.crime-mystery.info/unsolved-mysteries/the_mystery.jpg .
Thank you, come again.
Not if they're face down, gravity doing what it does, kinda shot yourself in the foot there.
Agreed crows will be detered by the snow, but rodents wont be that's where they live in the winter, under the snow.
Nice try. Yuris nose missing sure, but once again, common sense should prevail.
Might explain some of the "combat" wounds.
Could be an innocent explanation of course, falling out of the tree, concussed and unattended, ditto YD.
I find the way that YK's long johns were cut up to be strange. Why would you want to cut them halfway down and leave one lower half on? Quite weird. Surely the "tubes" would make the best improvised socks...
I have also seen pics of this nature but could never find them again recently for the vid.... Like the one on the left here... It was shown partially in your link but the feet were cropped of. https://ibb.co/fUuaJa
So it just seems to be the ankle area that is charred.
i was thinking of historical accounts. Wrt the TWA800 disaster, i'm with Paul Sagan that BL is a likely candidate but cannot be proven of course.
It's a fair point that the metal could have protected the contents of the flask..
It's very rambling, keeps repeating images but it does have some photos i haven't seen before including YK :-
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-O53sbU4FniU/V1nl9McdSmI/AAAAAAAAZII/lLbJLMFXe58bCFZfzz0uU1g-Krpb8pZ4gCCo/s456/12510291_787592554719729_2815355830832762872_n.jpg .
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-05C-Yn5v2UE/V1nl9GobpUI/AAAAAAAAZIM/z6Jlh4PpYVkxta9zuHEQ6Azn3g4tPn2OwCCo/s464/5479_787592534719731_4248310890730562006_n.jpg .
Note that the autopsy says - "There is a burn across the entire surface of the left anticnemion with a size of 31 x 10 cm with parchment density. In the lower third of the left ??? of brown-black colour with charred tissue and the blow out of the cutaneous covering ???? in the middle and upper thirds there is an ambustial surface ???red and light brown colour.
Oss, Svetlana. Don't Go There: Post Mortem (p. 215). LiberWriter.com. Kindle Edition. "
I can't see that damage in those photos, but curiously the right leg is covered...
this one- I've read LOTS of witness reports about alien abductions, ghosts, bigfoot, sea monsters, so yeah,.........
and this one- I must of missed them. Name me some and the names of the dead. (verifiable).
Where I was asking for names of the dead from ball lightning and the people who witnessed them being killed.
KMM... Could be. Unless she fell against a rock pretty hard, or its somehow attributed to decomposition?
Its just another instance in the autopsy report where they didn't elaborate, much like luda's missing tongue. Seems they left a lot of what would of been useful information out. Makes you wonder why
Nigel : Nearly all BL accounts have witnesses else you wouldn't have a report?
KMM 06-09-2017 07:18 (GMT)
nigel Nearly all BL accounts have witnesses else you wouldn't have a report?
Here was my reply to that
I've read LOTS of witness reports about alien abductions, ghosts, bigfoot, sea monsters, so yeah,...........
Like you said, you have no way to verify them !
see: re: KMM 09-06-2017 07:04 (GMT)
Nigel : Nearly all BL accounts have witnesses else you wouldn't have a report?
I must of missed them. Name me some and the names of the dead. (verifiable)
also, from the group diary (they were not singing subversive songs -- just singing -- which would annoy any sleeping travelers at the station)
January 24
7.00 (am) We arrived in Serov (town). We traveled with a Blinov's group. They have... things for hunting and other accessories. At the station we were met with hell of a hospitality. They didn't allow us into the building. The policeman stares at us suspiciously. There is no crime or vandalism in the city, as it suppose to be in times of communism. And then Yuri Krivo started a song, the cops grabbed him and took him away.
At the attention of citizen Krivonischenko, sergeant explained that the rules of §3 prohibited all activity that would disturb the peace of passengers. It is perhaps the only train station where the songs are forbidden, so we stayed without singing.
Finally everything is settled by end fo the day. We are leaving Serov to Ivdel at 6:30 pm. We were welcomed warmly in the school near the railway station. The steward (she is also a janitor) bolied some water, and helped us with everything we needed for the preparation for the trek.
@John - "--- any water in / on the tent would flash off at its boiling point (or thereabouts) and so would not heat the molecules (of the other stuff) up enough to cause a change; but a microwave would. "
There was a flask of alcohol in the tent which is unlikely to have survived the heating you're suggesting. I think it was more modest.
first of all -- the alcohol / flask was inside the tent and (most likely) stowed away (not touched - see reports) so there would be layers upon layers of shielding;
second -- the term "flask" leads me to think of a metal one -- brought for the same reason hikers would bring food either preserved (and maybe canned) but never in GLASS -- which would be a problem that would have to be dealt with asap if it broke and would take a lot of time to clean up the glass mess. I've done a lot of back-packing (including months long) and would never take anything in glass -- nor have I seen anyone else do so. The metal flask could heat up but if sealed would not likely be blowup the liquid inside; and it was not reported leaking.
lastly --- the tent would have been covered with snow -- from the continuous snow-fall and blowing -- this would tend to stick if it made the tent wet (from melting) thus forming a shielding layer of sorts (it was absorbing the microwaves)
it would be nice to find out more about that "flask" -- one account called it "medicinal alcohol" -- but another said the searchers drank it in (false hopes) of soon toasting the hikers alive -- the Mansi started quite a row when they suggested that they toast the dead ! (see references to the Mansi having seen/visited the tent and etc. BEFORE the hikers were found by the searchers - taking nothing) --- one site suggested it was "vodka" but none other did.
also: I should add that it is one thing to "boil-off" water, one molecule at a time --- and quite a different thing to continuously irradiate a flask to the point of exploding the flask -- remember that a metal flask would shield the contents from any microwave energy and, in a very cold environment would loose much of its acquired heat (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_shielding
--- or google Faraday cage.
Loose-Cannon 08-09-2017 03:42 (GMT)
KMM... Could be. Unless she fell against a rock pretty hard, or its somehow attributed to decomposition?
anything is possible, but idt a bone will decompose in 3 months.
"Hyoid bone fracture is usually the result of direct trauma to the neck because of manual strangulation, hanging, blunt trauma or projectiles. However, hyoid bone fracture caused by a fall has seldom been reported. We report the case of a young man who fell from 1.5 m while painting, which resulted as an isolated hyoid bone fracture. Hyoid bone fracture secondary to trauma may occur when a victim falls with a direct contusion of the neck"
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2211558712000349
setting the flashlight on the tent, and throwing his coat down, near the spot where he had exited (It’s difficult to conceive of another logical scenario that would explain these objects being found where they were).
--- Please note: there are several mentions, on several web-pages of evidence that the Mansi probably came across the hikers and their tent before the search party -- by putting the flashlight and jacket where they were found they were indicating respect for the dead, and an unwillingness to take any of the possessions. (least any Soviet interrogator think 'they did the killing)
from the official autopsy reports
"When palpation is felt, the unusual mobility of the ribs is determined"
"When probing the neck, the unusual mobility of the horns of the hyoid bone and thyroid cartilage is determined"
We know the ribs were broken and the heart punctured, so they had their cause of death. but if the hyoid bone was also broken this is pretty clear evidence of strangulation at, before, or around the time of death.
in the hiker's photo there are some pretty large tree trunks around the labaz ( see: http://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Krivonischenko-camera-film1-15.jpg )
but in the rescuer's photo there are only much smaller trees and they are digging something out of the snow (see: http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6446/14124454.33f/0_be80f_eecbc44b_orig.jpg )
I think the rescuer's photo is of some other site. Unless the labaz fell over -- how did the snow appear so deep? --- and where did the large trunk trees go ?
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=ru&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fmurders.ru%2FDyatloff_group_1.html&edit-text=%22
"You should at least read D.O.T.T ...... " what is DOTT and could you provide a link ?
This is the picture from what I understand when the cache was found. Is this after pulling it down? I dunno... http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6446/14124454.33f/0_be80f_eecbc44b_orig.jpg
Seems the ribs were described the same as the hyoid bone from external examination
"Well it wasn't much of a hand to hand fight, no broken noses, no torn ears, no black eyes, no gouged eyes, just abrasions and a few bruises. Maybe the soldiers wore boxing gloves? "
Must I post the list of injuries again? Multiple swollen heads, bloody mouths, bloody noses, skin ripped off knuckles down to the bone... Should I post the Zina hand again? Abrasions.... Lets see, you dont get them by putting your shirt on. You get them from contact with another object with enough force to leave a mark! Sounds like fighting to me. Not to mention 90% of them are to the head, face, and hands. So I guess BL REALLY likes themselves some face and hands, or you think they received all this in their simple hiking days prior? Of course we do happen to have THEIR VERY OWN pictures taken the day before and the morning of their last hike..... They sure look fine in the face to me! They received all these injuries THAT NIGHT. FACT.
"and crushed TBS’s skull, neutralizing them without leaving any obvious weapon mark.
Must have bee the boxing gloves again. Some punch, cracking the base of the skull as well as the rest of it."
I will repeat myself AGAIN.... Thanks for making me remember something I would rather forget. I have personally witnessed on TWO separate occasions a person punched so hard their skull eye socket was completely crushed inward, the second the temple are much like in this case... I took the person to the damn hospital. Guess what!.. not a single exterior cut or wound of the skin. Now you tell me.... What happens when you add a big freaking stick into the equation?... How about a rock? Now, these folks just happen to be wearing their HATS for the most part. Do you not think a winter beenie can/will help prevent exterior marks upon the affected area? Don't make me pull a John and start copy/pasting autopsy reports.
You are correct on the storage site... It was basically a hole cache with logs over the top from what I can tell.
"When probing the neck, the unusual mobility of the horns of the hyoid bone and thyroid cartilage is determined"
Wish they had been more specific on this, a fractured hyoid bone is almost always caused by strangulation
Poor Luda, she already had enough fatal injuries
What storage house? This was the labaz - http://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Krivonischenko-camera-film1-15.jpg .
The multiple cuts in the tent were created in the panic and confusion of exiting a wriggling collapsed tent cover in the dark.
Yeah right, a number of slits were cut along the top of the tent "in confusion". Funny how they are all along one side at the right height for viewing something. No mention of why a camera was found on a tripod when they were just settling in for the night. Don't tripods take up room?
setting the flashlight on the tent, and throwing his coat down, near the spot where he had exited (It’s difficult to conceive of another logical scenario that would explain these objects being found where they were).
As suggested before the flashlight would have been useful for "toilet trips". You wouldn't want to wake people up in the night so the flashlight was left outside in a known place perhaps the jacket to.
The Dyaltov party was followed, but not very far. (Their being followed some distance would explain the heeled boot track found among their own tracks as they headed down slope - No one in the group was wearing such boots at this time).
This is just not true, NTB was wearing his valenki (felt boots) he was well dressed probably because he was on watch.
They set up a small base camp under a pine tree,
Cedar tree actually.
just out of site of the tent, and together built an emergency fire
An act of incredible stupidity if they believed there were men out to kill them. Unbelievable that SZ a WW2 veteran could be involved in this.
As said before the existence of the fire rules out a sentient threat.
Shortly before dawn, the soldiers returned to make sure no one was left to tell the tale. They discovered the shelter, and a hand-to-hand fight ensued.
Well it wasn't much of a hand to hand fight, no broken noses, no torn ears, no black eyes, no gouged eyes, just abrasions and a few bruises. Maybe the soldiers wore boxing gloves?
(This would explain many’s of the group’s injuries, including the bruised metacarples on ID and RS, RS’s concussion, and the baton bruise on ZK.)
Maybe there was a scrap between the group but it's not relevant to the deaths imo. I don't see a baton bruise on ZK, this Ian guy would do better to mention her cut hand.
ID, RS, and ZK managed to break free into the darkness. They made a run for the tent, desperate for the axes or anything to help their friends. (Such a level of desperation would explain why they left the group, the shelter, and the fire, when they were so close to freezing that they could only go a few hundred more yards). ZK, a strong and brave young woman came the closest to making it.
They were climbing into the wind but all giving up in 330 metres is saying something else imo.
As for the group that was left, the soldiers pressed LD and SZ to death,
So how did they "press them to death"? This isn't what the pathologist said.
broke YK’s neck,
Assuming he means AK, the pathologist never said the neck was broken. He said it was deformed. It's a curious fact that he didn't investigate this further.
and crushed TBS’s skull, neutralizing them without leaving any obvious weapon mark.
Must have bee the boxing gloves again. Some punch, cracking the base of the skull as well as the rest of it.
I don't think the soldier legging is a big issue, there is speculation that the den was a mansi hunter shelter, if so then they could have left it behind. Could have been there for a long time.
IF TRUE, could of belonged to one of the campers also.
I dunno about this 'soldiers clothing'. Where did this come from?
I have read where old (pertaining to 1920 military attire) military legging was found in the tent, and also a report saying another was found at the ravine. I believe would of seen it DOTT.
I dunno about this 'soldiers clothing'. Where did this come from? Its an ok theory I guess. I just hate going down the rabbit hole of explaining every little detail with unknowns. Example, the whole group minus the 2yuris could have been present at the shelter caring for the injured and Igor attempted to reach the tent first. After Igor failing to return, the other two could have made the attempt and found Igor dead along the way.... Could explain reports of him being turned over.
Another example is... The case files describe fairly hefty branches being half burned in the fire pit. Looking at the tree, the branches missing fit the bill. Im not convinced anyone was climbing the tree for any other reason other then to retrieve firewood from dead branches. Its even harder to keep a fire going under those conditions with green wet wood, if not impossible. Remember, all the suitable fallen dead wood was likely covered by the snow and also soaked to the core.
There is plenty of evidence suggesting they were murdered, but similar to any other theory, I think its a loosing battle attempting to rationalize and explain every tiny detail. Thats kinda why the BL theory IMHO is stuck in the mud.
I don't claim to have all the answers
Gotta admit she has some really good points. I don't know if it was murder from within or by outsiders, or if it was BL. I just have a very low tolerance for BS and bullies.
I do however believe the eyes and tongue were missing from natural causes... She was rotted and thawed out face down in a creek.
As far as it goes with Yuri Yudin not recognizing an article of clothing.... I found this. Its from his 'interrogation?'... Yup, even he was questioned.
"The collected money was bought: food and various things and equipment needed in the trek, as a first-aid kit, notebooks, pencils, materials for warming tents, etc., I do not remember everything. Backpacks, skis, boots, tent, ice ax and other equipment were received at the Institute."
There you have it.... "I do not remember everything" when talking about their gear, supplies etc.
Nigel - See the part about the piece of "soldier garb" that had been taken out of evidence. And it was the military that closed that particular site for 3 years.
This is an EXCELLENT write and theory & I believe every single word of it.
Ian 13-08-2016 14:11 (GMT)
These were young people full of life and ability, who would have brought a lot of good into the world if they had been able to live out their natural lifetimes. The sheer tragedy of this story hasn’t allowed it to leave my mind for days. At least for me, trying to put together a rational explanation of the events brings a little bit of closure. I’m not saying that the hypothetical scenario that follows is what happened, but I do think it fits all of the available evidence. What do you think?
Sometime during the day or evening of Feb 1st, the Dyatlov group encountered a clandestine testing or training operation perhaps involving jets or rockets (This would explain the reports of glowing orange lights and the military debris in the area later noted by YY). It wasn’t the type of situation where there was a fear of the hikers leaking photographs of a secrete weapon (their cameras would have simply been confiscated). For some reason, the group itself came to be perceived as the threat.
The group’s journal records that as they were traveling towards the beginning point of their hike, they sometimes sung anti-revolution songs that could have landed them in jail. They twice had scrapes with authorities on their trip (once for singing). Also from the journal, it appears that they enjoyed free and open debates about a variety of topics. Later, out in the woods hundreds of km from the nearest settlement (journal entry), they probably would have felt even greater freedom in such expressions. Entering into the area of an ongoing operation may have brought them under surveylence, perhaps without their knowledge. An overheard song or a frank debate about politics, combined with their chance-but-perceived-as-“suspicious” presence in a sensitive area, caused them to be viewed as subversive.
They camped that night on open high ground. When one of the members, perhaps SZ or NYB, stepped outside to relieve himself, if it was clear, his flashlight would have been visible for a long distance, alerting anyone in the area who might not have already been aware of their tent’s precise location. Minutes later, as the group was finishing dinner and drying out their clothes, a small armed detachment arrived at the tent. Whoever it was (I’ll call them “soldiers”) knocked the tent down, fired a few rounds into the air, and ordered the hikers outside or they would be shot. (Supposedly, there were no footprints other than the Dyaltov party’s at the tent, but how could one tell? Surely the Dyaltov group made many boot prints when they set up camp, obviously the rescuers were wearing boots days later when they got to the tent. At first no one suspected it could be a crime scene. It is not just possible but probable that a couple extra pairs of footprints at the tent would have gone unnoticed).
Unexpected gunfire and barking orders would have sent a momentary jolt of fear into even these level-headed travelers. Members of the group who had pocket knives at hand quickly cut through the tent to get everyone outside before the threat was carried out. The multiple cuts in the tent were created in the panic and confusion of exiting a wriggling collapsed tent cover in the dark.
The soldiers wanted to neutralize the hikers, but to leave bullet holes or other obvious wounds would have eventually led to strong demands for an explanation from the community. The soldiers chose to expose them to the cold. Under some guise, the soldiers told the Dyatlov group that they had to leave the area immediately. With great presence of mind, the group leader, ID grabbed a flashlight and his heavy coat as he was leaving the tent. He was immediately ordered to leave them behind, setting the flashlight on the tent, and throwing his coat down, near the spot where he had exited (It’s difficult to conceive of another logical scenario that would explain these objects being found where they were).
The Dyaltov party was followed, but not very far. (Their being followed some distance would explain the heeled boot track found among their own tracks as they headed down slope - No one in the group was wearing such boots at this time). They dropped a lit flashlight on the way, either because they were ordered to do so, or in hopes of using it as a beacon to direct them back to the tent if the soldiers left.
Poorly clothed, in extreme cold, and possibly in the dark, these resilient people covered half the distance that they traveled in their entire day’s hike, to arrive at the nearest tree line. This probably took quite a bit of time, and they knew that with their level of exposure the clock was against them. They set up a small base camp under a pine tree, just out of site of the tent, and together built an emergency fire (an impressive feat with frozen wood, in the cold, with no gloves, and possibly in the dark). Afraid that the soldiers were still at the tent, and unsure if they would pursue, YD and YK were posted near the fire to keep a lookout for the soldiers’ approach. (This would explain why branches were broken off so high up in the tree on the side of the tent, when other branches would have been easier to obtain.) Perhaps they kept a lookout from up in the tree as long as they could. Many or all of the injuries on these two individuals were from exposed hands getting frost bite in the tree, eventually leading to them falling out.
The rest of the group proceeded to build a shelter in a protected area, near, but out of site of the lookout tree. The small fire of frozen wood was not enough to keep the injured YD, and YK warm. Even though they burned parts of their numb extremities, they fell asleep. Either someone in the group was with them, or came back to them, showing care and respect by placing the bodies next to each other. The outer clothes, no longer of any use to the deceased, were removed. At this point, the shelter was not yet finished, because some of their clothing was incorporated into it. The survivors did their best to stay warm in the shelter, but were dangerously cold and heartbroken over the deaths.
Shortly before dawn, the soldiers returned to make sure no one was left to tell the tale. They discovered the shelter, and a hand-to-hand fight ensued. (This would explain many’s of the group’s injuries, including the bruised metacarples on ID and RS, RS’s concussion, and the baton bruise on ZK.) Exhausted and freezing, the group was now no match for their assailants even without the use of their guns).
ID, RS, and ZK managed to break free into the darkness. They made a run for the tent, desperate for the axes or anything to help their friends. (Such a level of desperation would explain why they left the group, the shelter, and the fire, when they were so close to freezing that they could only go a few hundred more yards). ZK, a strong and brave young woman came the closest to making it.
As for the group that was left, the soldiers pressed LD and SZ to death, broke YK’s neck, and crushed TBS’s skull, neutralizing them without leaving any obvious weapon mark. (Such a grim scenario would explain the types of injuries sustained by the party members found in the ravine - crushed chests with none of the external cuts or arm injuries that would have certainly happened in a fall, explain why they were all found outside of their nearby shelter, explain the fragment of soldier’s garb found in the ravine, and explain why it was subsequently taken out of evidence). The autopsies of these group members were the most vague, because the coroners had no choice. More detail would have raised still more questions from the community and gotten them in official hot water.
It is significant that YY, who was a part of the group, knew the Dyatlov party’s circumstances better than any living person, and saw all or most of the original evidence, thought that the military had something to do with his friend’s deaths. In 2008, 6 of the original rescuers and a team of 31 experts came to the similar conclusion that military testing was involved. The official report was that the Dyatlov group died at the hands of an “unknown compelling force”. How could words come closer to summarizing the above, without implicating the party responsible? This may also explain why the military closed the area for the following three years.
Any thoughts?
This guy should write a book. His theory is the best thus far. Great job Ian!!
I look forward to reading it. THX again
That particular site in the Ural Mountains was CLOSED to, supposedly, everyone for 3 years.
They sealed the files and all the information & kept it all a secret for THIRTY YEARS. That's 3 decades = long time.
They did not investigate this for long. They were told to CLOSE it & they soon did.
It's only been since what? the 90's that it all FINALLY came to light & for people in the U.S. of A. to become aware of it also.
I don't see how you can argue a "cover up" with those 3 facts stated above. Far less things have been done in cover ups. I have no problem believing cops can be "dirty" & will do whatever told if the money's good.
When something is covered up, hushed up, file sealed and closed, for THIRTY years, you might guess some kind of "cover up" is going on.
Right now I"m reading in the 2016 & have found quite an interesting post by Ian, who believes they were also murdered by "soldiers".
I'm still in the middle of it.
I think you are blind to the obvious.
So lets just walk through this, this is Soviet Russia a country famous for putting millions of people in the gulags just for criticising the state, a false word could get you 20 years. But here we have a large investigative effort, a police team and a kgb team being supplied for months by helicopters.
All of that to pretend that it wasn't a state coverup? To maintain a deception? I don't think so, the coverup theory just doesn't fit this.
We know there was a cover up since they closed the cases right away, wouldn't let anyone go there for 3 yrs. & kept the files hidden for 30 yrs.?? Perhaps the detective & the pathologist were told what to write & say. Maybe they were offered a great deal of money to write & say what they did. I don't think your 2 questions are important & have nothing to do with nine people's injuries looking as if most of them were beaten & the defensive wounds almost from all show they TRIED to fight back but none of them stood a chance against "the criminals/murderers".
Why do you think an experienced police detective who saw everything first hand wrt the DPI doesn't agree with you? Surely it would be in his regular experience to deal with violence, murder etc?
Why doesn't an experienced pathologist agree with you?
Your BL can remove a tongue, take out 2 sets of eyeballs, snap a neck making it deformed, crush chests, crush 3 skulls, one on both sides over & over, break ribs (in Luda's case, almost ALL her ribs on BOTH sides), whack the back of one hiker like a baton, causing her to have a big bruise across her backside & due to the injury, hypothermia set in more quickly.
They just about ALL had skinned knuckles, abrasions to both hands, as if they'd been in a FIGHT. None of them have any signs of being hit by a ball of lightening, fireballs or whatever else is involved in your non-sensical BL theory.
Your BL made them WALK single file down a snowy slope without winter attire to freeze to death? If I was completely terrorized that I would leave a tent in -'20 degree weather without any coat/boots/gloves, I wouldn't be WALKING away from the tent.
It seems as if you entertain no other theories except trying to ram this ridiculous BL theory down our throats here. I honestly can't get this BL of any SORT killing all 9 of these hikers.
I'm not saying this BL doesn't exist, I believe it does and you've certainly proven that by all your links & obsession on your lightening balls/fire balls. It's.absurd.
Here's the problem: There.were.NINE.of.them.
NO WAY NOW or any time, will any kind of fireballs, lightening balls, balls of light, ever KILL
a bunch of people. There is nothing in history of this killing off a big GROUP of people with injuries such as the 9. It's not feasible.
You should at least read D.O.T.T. At least it can match all the injuries & offer a great solution as to why they left in taking their time & in like a single file.
(Phys.org)—Sightings of ball lightning have been made for centuries around the world – usually the size of a grapefruit and lasting up to twenty seconds
Read more at: https://phys.org/news/2012-10-mystery-ball-lightning.html#jCp
https://phys.org/news/2012-10-mystery-ball-lightning.html
.........................................
The existence of ball lightning has been hard to confirm by scientists due to the lack of verifiable observations and photographs of the phenomenon. Few will completely deny that ball lightning exists, but those that believe that ball lightning does occur in natural circumstances have not yet been able to formulate conclusive theories.
http://stormhighway.com/bl.php
............................................
Ball lightning, also called globe lightning, a rare aerial phenomenon in the form of a luminous sphere that is generally several centimetres in diameter. It usually occurs near the ground during thunderstorms, in close association with cloud-to-ground lightning. It may be red, orange, yellow, white, or blue in colour and is often accompanied by a hissing sound and distinct odour. It normally lasts only a few seconds
https://www.britannica.com/science/ball-lightning
...........................................
a phenomenon known as “ball lightning”. According to eyewitness reports they last for several seconds, moving through the air before eventually exploding.
https://medium.com/looking-up/ball-lightning-b594b6ffea37
.........................................
The numerous accounts of ball lightning – in the past three centuries there have been over 2,000 reports – are contradictory: Observations describe mostly yellowish to reddish balls of up to 20 centimetres in diameter. Their appearance is often attributed to a lightning strike during a thunderstorm. They last for seconds to minutes and vanish quietly or with a bang
https://www.ipp.mpg.de/2977926/kugelblitze
.........................................
A short-lived glowing ball sometimes observed to float in the air and thought to consist of ionized gas associated with thunderstorms.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ball_lightning
.........................................
3. Lifetime
Ball lightnings generally have a lifetime of less than 5 seconds. A small fraction of reports indicate a lifetime of over a minute.
http://wiki.wunderground.com/index.php/Educational_-_Ball_lightning
.........................................
Ball lightning looks like a floating glowing fuzzy ball of light, usually a few inches to a few feet in diameter. It floats or moves around rooms, airplanes, open areas – and occasionally through solid objects. It usually lasts for a few seconds or, rarely, minutes
https://evanhahn.com/ball-lightning/
..................................................................
I never said it didn't exist, It just does not have the magical properties SOME attribute to it unless they are playing a VIDEO GAME (where it is quite common). Nothing that would cause a group of 8 seasoned hikers to destroy their tent while leaving the other contents inside in reasonable order,
all the while forgetting their shoes and warm clothing in -20f weather to WALK a mile, only to be followed by the ball lightning to the cedar tree where it reins death and destruction, then on to the ravine for more death and destruction!
Dead birds in photo.... You didn't expect the rescue team to not eat dinner did you? Wow, and this turns inyo 'dead birds everywhere'.
The green cap... Yeah, if you cannot see the FACT its describing the KNOWN HAT found with the sock at the cedar, you need a lesson in common sense. We know these two items existed. You just don't want real evidence and facts to show BL did NOT cause those burns.
Read the damn case files... All else is pure speculation with a side order of made up wonderland crap.
https://sites.google.com/site/hibinaud/
There was a flask of alcohol in the tent which is unlikely to have survived the heating you're suggesting. I think it was more modest.
"dead birds"
Listed under the same section as burnt treetops, warm spot, "rays of warmth" etc.... Right there in the Fireball category without melting anything because it NOW selectively targets objects above a certain height from the ground to be burned etc.
Show me the investigation photographs of these things, or they simply do not exist!
I too would like to see any photos of "burnt tree tops" could never find any mention of photos / but --- dead birds --- from : http://www.viafanzine.jor.br/site_vf/pag/5/dyatlov_part04.htm
"3) Dead birds."
"First responders noticed a large number of dead birds, mainly white ptarmigans, in the forest area where hikers were hiding: in the vicinity of the cedar and the ravine. Consequently, the impact of a deadly force on living organisms would have occurred."
--- this quote is followed by a PHOTO of a rescuer holding two dead birds -- doesn't say much else. To see it go about 1/2 way down the page.
PREFERENCES
Twain M. Letter to an unidentified pawn. 1908.
Anon. Maas of fire falls into sea. Scirnce 5:24’2, 20 March 1885,
Anon. Electrical phenomena near Weymouth. Nature 1~262, 16 August 1990.
Cawkell A E. Personal communication, 4 February 1976,
Cade C M. Thunderbolts as the Xweapon. Dticovery 2S:23, November 1962.
Argyle E. Ball lightning as an optical illusion. Nature 2S0: 179.80, 1971,
Hill E L. Ball lightning. American Scierrtid 58:479, 1970.
Charman N. The enigma of ball lightning. New Scientist 566 S2-35, 1972.
Altschuler M D. Is ball lightning a nuclear phenomenon? Nature 228:545.46, 1970.
Ashby D E T F. & Wbitehead C. Is ball lightning caused by antimatter mcteorim?
Nature 230:180.82, 1971.
Altschuler M D. Atmsopheric electricity and plasma inte~retations of UFOS, In: Scienh~ic
studyof unidentified Jfying obJ”ects, cd. by E.U. Con&n (New York: E.P. Dutton,
1969), Chapter 7. pp. 72 S-55.
Uman M A. Some comments on ball lightning. J ,4tmosph Ten Phys 301245-46,
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Cttvington A E. Ball lightning. Nature 226:252.55, 1970.
Blair A J F. Magnetic fields, ball lightning, and campanology. Nature 243:512, 1973.
Kapiras P L. [The nature of globe lightning.] Dokl. Ahud. Nauk SSSR 101:245, 1955.
Kapitaa P L. A thermonuclear reactor with a plasma filament freely floating in a hi~hfrequcncy
fteld. Sou. Phys JETP 31:199, 1970.
Tompkhas D R Jr., Rodney P F & Goading R. A theory of ball lightning, Bull.
Amer Phys. Sot. 20:659, 1975
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Nature 257:212.14, 1975.
Nigel : Nearly all BL accounts have witnesses else you wouldn't have a report?
I must of missed them. Name me some and the names of the dead. (verifiable)
OK - here's a few -- not that you'd even know how to "verify" them .......
Historical accounts[edit]
It has been suggested that ball lightning could be the source of the legends that describe luminous balls, such as the mythological Anchimayen from Argentinean and Chilean Mapuche culture.
In a 1960 study, 5% of the population of the Earth reported having witnessed ball lightning.[7][8] Another study analyzed reports of 10,000 cases.[7][9]
M. l'abbe de Tressan, in Mythology compared with history: or, the fables of the ancients elucidated from historical records:
… during a storm which endangered the ship Argo, fires were seen to play round the heads of the Tyndarides, and the instant after the storm ceased. From that time, those fires which frequently appear on the surface of the ocean were called the fire of Castor and Pollux. When two were seen at the same time, it announced the return of calm; when only one, it was the presage of a dreadful storm. This species of fire is frequently seen by sailors, and is a species of ignis fatuus. (page 417)
This account, however, shares more commonalities with the St. Elmo's fire phenomenon.[original research?]
Great Thunderstorm of Widecombe-in-the-Moor[edit]
Another early description was reported during the Great Thunderstorm at a church in Widecombe-in-the-Moor, Devon, in England, on 21 October 1638. Four people died and approximately 60 were injured when, during a severe storm, an 8-foot (2.4 m) ball of fire was described as striking and entering the church, having nearly destroyed it. Large stones from the church walls were hurled into the ground and through large wooden beams. The ball of fire allegedly smashed the pews and many windows, and filled the church with a foul sulfurous odour and dark, thick smoke.
The ball of fire reportedly divided into two segments, one exiting through a window by smashing it open, the other disappearing somewhere inside the church. The explanation at the time, because of the fire and sulfur smell, was that the ball of fire was "the devil" or the "flames of hell". Later, some blamed the entire incident on two people who had been playing cards in the pew during the sermon, thereby incurring God's wrath.[1]
The Catherine and Mary[edit]
In December 1726 a number of British newspapers printed an extract of a letter from John Howell of the sloop Catherine and Mary:
As we were coming thro’ the Gulf of Florida on 29th of August, a large ball of fire fell from the Element and split our mast in Ten Thousand Pieces, if it were possible; split our Main Beam, also Three Planks of the Side, Under Water, and Three of the Deck; killed one man, another had his Hand carried of [sic], and had it not been for the violent rains, our Sails would have been of a Blast of Fire.[10][11]
The Montague[edit]
One particularly large example was reported "on the authority of Dr. Gregory" in 1749:
Admiral Chambers on board the Montague, 4 November 1749, was taking an observation just before noon...he observed a large ball of blue fire about three miles distant from them. They immediately lowered their topsails, but it came up so fast upon them, that, before they could raise the main tack, they observed the ball rise almost perpendicularly, and not above forty or fifty yards from the main chains when it went off with an explosion, as great as if a hundred cannons had been discharged at the same time, leaving behind it a strong sulphurous smell. By this explosion the main top-mast was shattered into pieces and the main mast went down to the keel.
Five men were knocked down and one of them very bruised. Just before the explosion, the ball seemed to be the size of a large mill-stone.[2]
Georg Richmann[edit]
A 1753 report depicts ball lightning as having been lethal when professor Georg Richmann of Saint Petersburg, Russia, created a kite-flying apparatus similar to Benjamin Franklin's proposal a year earlier. Richmann was attending a meeting of the Academy of Sciences when he heard thunder and ran home with his engraver to capture the event for posterity. While the experiment was under way, ball lightning appeared and travelled down the string, struck Richmann's forehead and killed him. The ball had left a red spot on Richmann's forehead, his shoes were blown open, and his clothing was singed. His engraver was knocked unconscious. The door frame of the room was split and the door was torn from its hinges.[12]
HMS Warren Hastings[edit]
An English journal reported that during an 1809 storm, three "balls of fire" appeared and "attacked" the British ship HMS Warren Hastings. The crew watched one ball descend, killing a man on deck and setting the main mast on fire. A crewman went out to retrieve the fallen body and was struck by a second ball, which knocked him back and left him with mild burns. A third man was killed by contact with the third ball. Crew members reported a persistent, sickening sulfur smell afterward.[13][14]
Ebenezer Cobham Brewer[edit]
Ebenezer Cobham Brewer, in his 1864 US edition of A Guide to the Scientific Knowledge of Things Familiar, discussed "globular lightning". He describes it as slow-moving balls of fire or explosive gas that sometimes fall to the earth or run along the ground during a thunderstorm. He said that the balls sometimes split into smaller balls and may explode "like a cannon".[15]
Wilfrid de Fonvielle[edit]
In his book Thunder and Lightning,[16] translated into English in 1875, French science writer Wilfrid de Fonvielle wrote that there had been about 150 reports of globular lightning:
Globular lightning seems to be particularly attracted to metals; thus it will seek the railings of balconies, or else water or gas pipes etc, It has no peculiar tint of its own but will appear of any colour as the case may be ... at Coethen in the Duchy of Anhalt it appeared green. M. Colon, Vice-President of the Geological Society of Paris, saw a ball of lightning descend slowly from the sky along the bark of a poplar tree; as soon as it touched the earth it bounced up again, and disappeared without exploding. On 10th of September 1845 a ball of lightning entered the kitchen of a house in the village of Salagnac in the valley of Correze. This ball rolled across without doing any harm to two women and a young man who were here; but on getting into an adjoining stable it exploded and killed a pig which happened to be shut up there, and which, knowing nothing about the wonders of thunder and lightning, dared to smell it in the most rude and unbecoming manner.
The motion of such balls is far from being very rapid – they have even been observed occasionally to pause in their course, but they are not the less destructive for all that. A ball of lightning which entered the church of Stralsund, on exploding, projected a number of balls which exploded in their turn like shells.[17]
Tsar Nicholas II[edit]
Tsar Nicholas II, the last Emperor of Russia, reported witnessing what he called "a fiery ball" while in the company of his grandfather, Tsar Alexander II: "Once my parents were away," recounted the Tsar, "and I was at the all-night vigil with my grandfather in the small church in Alexandria. During the service there was a powerful thunderstorm, streaks of lightning flashed one after the other, and it seemed as if the peals of thunder would shake even the church and the whole world to its foundations. Suddenly it became quite dark, a blast of wind from the open door blew out the flame of the candles which were lit in front of the iconostasis, there was a long clap of thunder, louder than before, and I suddenly saw a fiery ball flying from the window straight towards the head of the Emperor. The ball (it was of lightning) whirled around the floor, then passed the chandelier and flew out through the door into the park. My heart froze, I glanced at my grandfather – his face was completely calm. He crossed himself just as calmly as he had when the fiery ball had flown near us, and I felt that it was unseemly and not courageous to be frightened as I was. I felt that one had only to look at what was happening and believe in the mercy of God, as he, my grandfather, did. After the ball had passed through the whole church, and suddenly gone out through the door, I again looked at my grandfather. A faint smile was on his face, and he nodded his head at me. My panic disappeared, and from that time I had no more fear of storms."[18]
Aleister Crowley[edit]
British occultist Aleister Crowley reported witnessing what he referred to as "globular electricity" during a thunderstorm on Lake Pasquaney[19] in New Hampshire in 1916. He was sheltered in a small cottage when he "noticed, with what I can only describe as calm amazement, that a dazzling globe of electric fire, apparently between six and twelve inches (15–30 cm) in diameter, was stationary about six inches below and to the right of my right knee. As I looked at it, it exploded with a sharp report quite impossible to confuse with the continuous turmoil of the lightning, thunder and hail, or that of the lashed water and smashed wood which was creating a pandemonium outside the cottage. I felt a very slight shock in the middle of my right hand, which was closer to the globe than any other part of my body."[20]
R.C. Jennison[edit]
Jennison, of the Electronics Laboratory at the University of Kent, described his own observation of ball lightning:
I was seated near the front of the passenger cabin of an all-metal airliner (Eastern Airlines Flight EA 539) on a late night flight from New York to Washington. The aircraft encountered an electrical storm during which it was enveloped in a sudden bright and loud electrical discharge (0005 h EST, March 19, 1963). Some seconds after this a glowing sphere a little more than 20 cm in diameter emerged from the pilot's cabin and passed down the aisle of the aircraft approximately 50 cm from me, maintaining the same height and course for the whole distance over which it could be observed.[21]
Other accounts[edit]
Ball lightning entering via the chimney (1886)On 30 April 1877, a ball of lightning entered the Golden Temple at Amritsar, India, and exited through a side door. Several people observed the ball, and the incident is inscribed on the front wall of Darshani Deodhi.[22]
On 22 November 1894, an unusually prolonged instance of natural ball lightning occurred in Golden, Colorado, which suggests it could be artificially induced from the atmosphere. The Golden Globe newspaper reported, "A beautiful yet strange phenomenon was seen in this city on last Monday night. The wind was high and the air seemed to be full of electricity. In front of, above and around the new Hall of Engineering of the School of Mines, balls of fire played tag for half an hour, to the wonder and amazement of all who saw the display. In this building is situated the dynamos and electrical apparatus of perhaps the finest electrical plant of its size in the state. There was probably a visiting delegation from the clouds, to the captives of the dynamos on last Monday night, and they certainly had a fine visit and a roystering game of romp."[23]
On 22 May 1901 in the Kazakh city of Ouralsk in the Russian Empire (now Oral, Kazakhstan), "a dazzlingly brilliant ball of fire" descended gradually from the sky during a thunderstorm, then entered into a house where 21 people had taken refuge, "wreaked havoc with the apartment, broke through the wall into a stove in the adjoining room, smashed the stove-pipe, and carried it off with such violence that it was dashed against the opposite wall, and went out through the broken window". The incident was reported in the Bulletin of the Societe astronomique de France the following year.[24]
In July 1907 the Cape Naturaliste Lighthouse in Western Australia was hit by ball lightning. Lighthouse keeper Patrick Baird was in the tower at the time and was knocked unconscious. His daughter Ethel recorded the event.[25]
An early fictional reference to ball lightning appears in a children's book set in the 19th century by Laura Ingalls Wilder.[26] The books are considered historical fiction, but the author always insisted they were descriptive of actual events in her life. In Wilder's description, three separate balls of lightning appear during a winter blizzard near a cast iron stove in the family's kitchen. They are described as appearing near the stovepipe, then rolling across the floor, only to disappear as the mother (Caroline Ingalls) chases them with a willow-branch broom.[27]
Pilots in World War II described an unusual phenomenon for which ball lightning has been suggested as an explanation. The pilots saw small balls of light moving in strange trajectories, which came to be referred to as foo fighters.
Submariners in WWII gave the most frequent and consistent accounts of small ball lightning in the confined submarine atmosphere. There are repeated accounts of inadvertent production of floating explosive balls when the battery banks were switched in or out, especially if mis-switched or when the highly inductive electrical motors were mis-connected or disconnected. An attempt later to duplicate those balls with a surplus submarine battery resulted in several failures and an explosion.[28]
On 6 August 1944, a ball of lightning went through a closed window in Uppsala, Sweden, leaving a circular hole about 5 centimetres (2.0 in) in diameter. The incident was witnessed by residents in the area, and was recorded by a lightning strike tracking system[29] on the Division for Electricity and Lightning Research at Uppsala University.[30]
In 1954 Domokos Tar, a physicist, observed a lightning strike during a heavy thunderstorm.[31][32] A single bush was flattened in the wind. Some seconds later a speedy rotating ring (cylinder) appeared in the shape of a wreath. The ring was about 5 metres (16 ft) away from the lightning impact point. The ring's plane was perpendicular to the ground and in full view of the observer. The outer/inner diameters were about 60 and 30 centimetres (24 and 12 in) respectively. The ring rotated quickly about 80 cm (31 in) above the ground. It was composed of wet leaves and dirt and rotated counter clockwise. After seconds the ring became self-illuminated turning increasingly red, then orange, yellow and finally white. The ring (cylinder) at the outside was similar to a sparkler.[33] In spite of the rain, many electrical high voltage discharges could be seen.[34] After some seconds, the ring suddenly disappeared and simultaneously the ball lightning appeared in the middle. Initially the ball had only one tail and it rotated in the same direction as the ring. It was homogeneous and showed no transparency. In the first moment the ball hovered motionless, but then began to move forward on the same line with a constant speed of about 1 metre per second (3.3 ft/s). It was stable and travelled at the same height in spite of the heavy rain and strong wind. After moving about 10 m (33 ft) it suddenly disappeared without any noise.
On 10 July 2011, during a powerful thunderstorm, a ball of light with a two-metre (6 ft 7 in) tail went through a window to the control room of local emergency services in Liberec, Czech Republic. The ball bounced from window to the ceiling, then to the floor and back to the ceiling, where it rolled along it for two or three metres. Then it dropped to the floor and disappeared. The staff present in the control room were frightened, smelled electricity and burned cables and thought something was burning. The computers froze (not crashed) and all communications equipment was knocked out for the night until restored by technicians. Aside from damages caused by disrupting equipment, only one computer monitor was destroyed.[35]
On Dec 15th 2014, flight BE-6780 (Saab 2000) in the UK experienced ball lightning in the forward cabin just before lightning struck the aircraft nose.[36]
not that you read but here's something you ought to try and read (its short - don't worry):
from: http://www.garfield.library.upenn.edu/essays/v2p479y1974-76.pdf
Thunder is good, thunder is impressive; but it is
lightning that does the work. --Mark Twainl
Lightning has always terrified and fascinated people. It has also inspired many myths and much superstition. For example, some misinformed people righteously assert that lightning never strikes twice in the same place. Actually, the odds for lightning hitting twice in the same spot are excellent. The conditions that attracted it in the first place--a protninence in a flat area, for example--are likely to attract it again. The Greeks and Remans thought thunderbolts were weapons of the gods. Since scientists have now explained ordinary streak lightning as a high-voltage electrical discharge, people’s fascination has been transferred to the other forms of lightning: sheet lightning, in which no single bolt is visible; St. Elmo’s fire, a glow emitted by charged objects such as airplane wings; and ball lightning (also called ‘‘Kugelblitz’ ‘). Ball lightning is usually described as a moving, luminous sphere which lasts a few seconds and then dies out, either silently or explosively. Ball lightning is probably the most mysterious lightning phenomenon because scientists have utterly failed to explain it. Many researchers have viewed reports of ball lightning with the kind of skepticism and distaste usually reserved for reports of psi phenomena and UFOS. Until recently, scientists even debated the existence of ball lightning--explaining it as hallucination, optical illusion, or observer hysteria. The only evidence for it was anecdotal, mainly from amateur sightings. But reports of ball lightning have appeared in the scientific press for over a century. In 188S, science published this account by a ship’s captain named Waters: “All at once a large mass of fire appeared over the vessel, completely blindlng the spectators; and, as it fell into the sea some fifty yards to leeward, it caused a hissing sound, which was heard above the blast, and made the vessel quiver from stem to stem.”2 In 1930, an anonymous account in Nature reported that “a number of globes of light were seen of the size of billiard balls, extending from a few inches
above the surface to a height of 7-8 feet. They slowly rose and fell vertically, sometimes within a few inches of the observers but always eluding the grasp.”3 It is always pleasant for me to demonstrate the creative use of information retrieval. The ball lightning phenomenon, with its combination of mystery and possible utility, is just such an opportunity. I hope that the new generation of science teachers will use the information retrieval techniques described here to get students interested in tracing the history of other scientific discoveries. By using the Science Citation tndefl in this way, students can feel the excitement of discovery as the threads of scientific cloth are unraveled. According to the results of a search by my versatile colleague, A.E. Cawkell,4 an article with the incredL ble title “Thunderbolts as the X-Weapon” appeared in November 1%2 in the now defunct journal Diseavery. The paper, by C. M. Cade, contained this account of an attempt to calculate the energy of ball lightning: “A fireball ‘the size of a large orange’ which was observed in Dorstone, Hereford, on October 3rd, 1936, fell into a water butt containing about four gallons of water, which tilled for some minutes, and 20 minutes later was still too hot for the human hand. From this data, Professor B.L. Goodlet has calculated that the minimum energy of this fireball was 3,800 kilowatt-seconds....”5 Unfortunately, the author supplies no further reference for the mysterious Professor Goodlet. So the detective work begins. As it turns out, we were unable to find anyone who had ever cited Cade’s paper, at least within the 15 years we’ve compiled the SCF’ . But as I’ve often repeated, a name ms,y be all one needs to begin an SCI search. Goodlet’s papers in the J LEE were cited in 1970 by M.D. Altschuler of the National Center for Atmospheric Research, Boulder, Colors@ in 1971 by E. Argyle of the Dominion Radio Astrophysical Observatory, British Columbia; and again in 1971 by P.C. W. Davies of the Institute of Theoretical Astronomy, Cambridge, England. This is shown in the figure opposite, in which we have provided a selected portion of the now extensive ball lightning literature. In 1971, Argyle drew parallels between ball lightning and visual afterimages: “The behavior and apparent properties of the positive afterimage are strikkgly similar to those of ball lightning. Its shape wiU be the same as that of the exciting source, and it will commonly be described as a ball . . . . Positive afterimages last 2-10 seconds, depending on circumstances, and most lightning balls are reported to have a duration in the same range. Positive afterimages dkappear rather suddenly, as do lightning balls.”6 Argyle dismissed Goodlet’s report that water in a rain barrel had been heated by ball lightning as ‘‘unreliable.” Each explanation advanced for the ball lightning phenomenon is unsatisfactory in some respect. Early explanations held that ball lightning is formed by the combustion of material released by a lightning stroke on its impact with the ground. This material, either particles or gases, might be confined by a vortex, in the same manner as a smoke ring. Edward Hill of the University of Minnesota modified this theory to suggest that when a lightning stroke produces a separation of charges in such a ball of material, miniature lightning strokes occur within the ball. T. Neugebauer postulated that ball lightning consists of dense plasma containing large numbers of free electrons and positive ions. Altschuler and his colleagues suggested that ball lightning may be a nuclear phenomenon involving the production of radioactive products, whose beta-decay would cause a glow in surrounding air molecules. A bizarre but not implausible theory was discussed in the same 19 March 1971 issue of Nature in which Argyle’s “optical illusion” article was published. An article by D. E.T.F. Ashby and C. Whitehead of the United Kingdom Atomic Energy Authority suggested that ball lightning is caused by antimatter meteorites which annhilate normal matter, creating a luminous ball. Actually, this idea was first proposed by Ahschuler, who wrote in 1969 that “the hypothesis of antimatter meteorites is intriguing. lf a significant amount of antimatter does exist in the universe, it is possible that tiny grains of antimatter might penetrate our galaxy and collide with the earth’s atmosphere. Entering at high speeds, the grain might survive until it reached the troposphere. A fraction of a microgram of antimatter would destroy an equal mass of matter and release many megajoules of energy, perhaps creating luminous spheres.” The antimatter theory was supported when Ashby and Whitehead, using radiation detectors, observed four ‘‘unusual” radiation events. They concluded that, “The radiation events are consistent with the proposed existence of micron-sized particles of antimatter and their duration is similar to that of ball lightning; however, the correlation with thunderstorms is uncertain.” As the ball lightning phenomenon became more scientifically respectable, two particular “events” began to be discussed by many authors. The first was Jennison’s (University of Kent) 1969 report of a lightning ball passing down the central aisle of an aircraft. Since the plane was a tanker with a full load of aviation fuel, one can imagine the observer’s relief when the yellow-white lightning ball ““danced out over the right wing” and disappeared into the night. The second event was Covington’s (National Research Council of Canada) 1970 observations of a drifting lightning ball which demolished the pile of a wharf, and of another lightning ball which emerged from the fireplace in a lakeside house, traveled across the room, and passed through a closed door without causing any damage. Is The two articles by Argyle and Ashby were cited in several letters to journals in 1971. Argyle’s idea that ball lightning is an optical illusion was rebutted by authors who cited their own and other observers’ welldocumented sightings. Ashby’s antimatter notion had a mixed reception. The UFO phenomenon entered the ball lightning story via AkschuIer’s 1969 article in the Condon UFO report, which explained some UFO sightings as ball lightning. The chapter was cited by several authors. As an exercise in demonstrating that all phenomena and disciplines are somehow connected to one another, the ball lightning story has few equals. In 1973, for example, A.J. P. Blair of Germany used a novel method to calculate the magnetic energy in a lightning ball as 1S0 gauss. Nature carried the report, which stated, “In the parish of Samford-Courtney in Devon on October 7, 1811, a sudden darkness came on, and a tire ball fell in the vicinity of the church. The ringers in the belfry, ringing at the time, declared that they never knew the bells go so heavy, and were obliged to desist ringing. Looking down from the belfry into the church, they perceived four fire balls, which suddenly burst, and the church was fdled with fire and smoke, some of which ascended to the tower, where a large beam, on which one of the bells was hung, was broken, and the gudgeon breaking, the bell fell to the floor.There is also a connection to nuclear fusion in the ball lightning story. In a well-cited 1955 article, the Russian physicist Peter Kapitsa proposed that ball lightning results from a standing wave system in the electromagnetic field which accompanies thunderstorms. Windows and chimneys, through which ball lightning is often reported to have travelled, would act as waveguides for these standing waves. Elements of this idea were later used in a Soviet experimental fusion reactor, and stable balls of plasma were produced. Another theory involves focused cosmic-ray particles, and still another postulates that ball lightning is produced by the decay of ordhary lightning in the presence of large amounts of water. The theoretical situation regarding ball lightning still is rather confused. It has not vet been determined whether ball lightning is a single phenomenon or a series of phenomena with diverse origins. No one has succeeded in producing ball lightning in the laboratory, although a few photographs have been reported. Just a year ago, in a search for photographic evidence of ball lightning, two researchers at the University of Wyoming examined over 10,000 Prarie Meteorite Network photographs which contained images of over 100,000 lightning strokes. They reported tindlng six ball lightning ‘‘caddate” events. “In all of the ball candidate events the scenario is the same: an ordinary appearing lightning stroke ends above ground and what appears to be a ball (producing a sequence of images) falls out of it and goes to earth. ” 17 More recently, photographic evidence of an object “which may be similar to some varieties of ball lightning” was reported in September 1975 by three French authors, R. F;eux and C. Gary of Electricity de France, Direction des Etudes et Recherches, and P. Hubert of Commissariats 2 l’Energie Atomique, Service d’Electronique Physique, Centre d’Etudes Nuc16aires de Saclay. In a kind of reenactment of Benjamin Franklin’s kke-and-key lightning experiment, they launched rockets with wires attached into the atmosphere. This technique was developed, they said, “in the hope of perhaps shedding new light on the controversial subject of ball lightning, since according to published statistics ball lightning is mentioned in more than 40% of the cases in which an observer describes a nearby lightning stroke. ” Although these researchers did not observe anything “comparable with the more remarkable tales of ball lightning folklore,” they did observe and photograph the appearance of luminous “beads” during the decay of triggered lightning. “The beads generally have an initial diameter of the order of 40 cm which decreases gradually with a total lifetime of 0.3s at most. During long-lasting strokes, the initially straight channel adopts on a progressively more tortuous shape and the biggest beads occur where tortuousness is a maximum. Since there is a positive correlation between diameter and lifetime, it follows that at the end of the decay there are one or two luminous balls only. In general these objects have an upward motion of 1 or 2 m s -1, which gives an overall picture consistent with the hypothesis of a gradually cooling spheroid of hot gas. ” In the same paper, the authors lend support to the early theory involving combustion of material released from the ground. They note that “light emission occurred at the foot of wooden posts” in the test area. “The light-emitting region was stationary, in contact with the ground at the place where the post enters the earth. Its shape seems roughly spherical with a diameter of about 25 cm . ...” They comment, “It is not surprising that some underground outgassing occurs and that the gasses escape at the point where the posts puncture the uPPer layer. It remains to be decided whether the light comes from hot gases only or from a combustion involving hydrogen or methane, for instance, or from a localized electric discharge mechanism. ” Just a few weeks ago, Mark Stenhoff of the Physics Department of Royal Holloway College reported a case in which a woman touched and was injured by ball lightning. Stenhoff reported in Nature that on 8 August 1975, the woman, who lives in the Midlands area of England, was in her kitchen during a thunderstorm “when a sphere of light appeared over the cooker. The ball twas z 10 cm across and surrounded by a flame-colored halo; its color was bright blue to purple. The ball moved straight towards the witness at an estimated height of 95 cm from the ground. Burning heat was felt, and there was a singeing smell. A sound something like a“rattle was heard.”19 The woman herself reported that, “The ball seemed to hit me below the belt, as it were, and I automatically brushed it from me and it just disappeared. Where 1 brushed it away there appeared a redness and swelling on my left hand. It seemed as if my gold wedding ring was burning into my finger. ” The lightning ball produced a hole in the woman’s dress and underwear at the point where it struck her. Her legs became red and numb. The woman, who had never before heard of ball lightning, felt that the ball exploded just as she touched it. Commenting on this report in a Nature editorial, P.C. W. Davies notes that progress in ball lightning research is hampered by the lack of precise, reliable observational data. He suggests that, “The present unsatisfactory situation would be greatly improved if the aura of mystery and superstition surrounding unusual aerial events were dispelled. Good, detailed eye-witness reports of luminous balls are frequently made by competent ob-, servers such as airline pilots, but are rarely passed on to scientists. Instead, many of them find their way into miiitary tiles, where they are shrouded in a ridiculous secrecy. (Incredibly, the British Ministry of Defence continues to deny scientists access to their accounts of these events. ) With proper cooperation between scientists and the public, particularly the local press, and the civil aircraft authorities, it would be possible to follow up ball lightning reports rapidly, enabling tests for radioactivity and so forth to be carried out. “20 To help clarify the situation, a few individuals have turned their energies to collecting ball lightning rep&-ts. One of these is William Corliss of Glen Arm, Maryland, a consultant to NASA who has compiled Strange Phenomena, Zf a ‘‘sourcebook” which contains abstracts of 75 ball lightning reports. Also notable is the ball lightning bibliography compiled by J.D. Barry of the US Air Force’s Space and Missile Systems Organization, Los Angeles. This bibliography, copies of which are available from the author, cites over 1,100 ball lightning reports and references spanning 3S0 years.22 Another excellent source of information on the scientific history of ball lightning is a book published in 1971, The Nature of Ball Lightning by Stanley Singer, director of Athenex Research Associates, Pasadena, Califomia. According to Singer, Faraday felt that any relation between ball lightning and streak lightning was “more than doubtful, ” and Lord Kelvin held that ball lightning was nothing more than an optical illusion.
Returning to the 1962 article by Cade, we’ve been unable to find any other articles about “X-Weapons.” Maybe the idea was impractical--or maybe the work was so successful that it was classified. What surprises me most about the ball lightning story is the failure of any leading American or Soviet journal to present a comprehensive discussion of this area of research. The state of the literature on ball lightning is similar to Shakespeare’s description of Romeo and Juliet’s love:
It is too rash, too unadvis ‘d,
too sudden:
Too like the lightning; which cloth
cease to be
Ere one can say it lightens.
PREFERENCES
Twain M. Letter to an unidentified pawn. 1908.
Anon. Maas of fire falls into sea. Scirnce 5:24’2, 20 March 1885,
Anon. Electrical phenomena near Weymouth. Nature 1~262, 16 August 1990.
Cawkell A E. Personal communication, 4 February 1976,
Cade C M. Thunderbolts as the Xweapon. Dticovery 2S:23, November 1962.
Argyle E. Ball lightning as an optical illusion. Nature 2S0: 179.80, 1971,
Hill E L. Ball lightning. American Scierrtid 58:479, 1970.
Charman N. The enigma of ball lightning. New Scientist 566 S2-35, 1972.
Altschuler M D. Is ball lightning a nuclear phenomenon? Nature 228:545.46, 1970.
Ashby D E T F. & Wbitehead C. Is ball lightning caused by antimatter mcteorim?
Nature 230:180.82, 1971.
Altschuler M D. Atmsopheric electricity and plasma inte~retations of UFOS, In: Scienh~ic
studyof unidentified Jfying obJ”ects, cd. by E.U. Con&n (New York: E.P. Dutton,
1969), Chapter 7. pp. 72 S-55.
Uman M A. Some comments on ball lightning. J ,4tmosph Ten Phys 301245-46,
1968.
Cttvington A E. Ball lightning. Nature 226:252.55, 1970.
Blair A J F. Magnetic fields, ball lightning, and campanology. Nature 243:512, 1973.
Kapiras P L. [The nature of globe lightning.] Dokl. Ahud. Nauk SSSR 101:245, 1955.
Kapitaa P L. A thermonuclear reactor with a plasma filament freely floating in a hi~hfrequcncy
fteld. Sou. Phys JETP 31:199, 1970.
Tompkhas D R Jr., Rodney P F & Goading R. A theory of ball lightning, Bull.
Amer Phys. Sot. 20:659, 1975
Fieux R, Gary C k Hubert P. Artificially triggered lightning atmve land.
Nature 257:212.14, 1975. 19. Stenhoff M. Ball lightning. Nature 2~5552):596-97, 15 April 1976.
20. Davies P C W. Ball lightning. Nature 260(5552) :57S, 15 April 1976.
$!1. Corlh W R. (compiler) Stra~e PhenomenaGlen Arm, Maryland: Corliss, 1974.
22. Barry J D. Bibliography of ball lightning rcpsa. f Atmo#sh. Terr. Phys. S&1577, 1974.
23. Singer S. The nature OJ ball Itj@tnsisg (New York: Plenum Prcra,1971) 169pp.
24. Shakespeare W. Romeo andJtdiet Act 2, Scene 2.
there you go - read'emandweep !
Tunguska 1908
The explosion released enough energy to kill reindeer and flatten trees for many kilometers around the blast site. But no crater was ever found.
Sounds like ball lightning to me ! 8-)
--- actually, you are right even though you thought you were making a little joke (very little).
The Tunguska explosion was the result of an AIR BURST ! like the proverbial ball lightning you detest --- the hypothesis is that some of the BL can explode in an AIR BURST --- waddiyaknow ..... you and agree on something !
--- you once again missed the point --- not that you can't approximately decipher the meaning --- but that the translator can't even make a sentence --- I POINT OUT THAT YOU SUPPLIED THE VERB MAKING THE SENTENCE MAKE SENSE: "In this case the statement is referring to the cap FOUND on the scene." or conversely it could supply a connective to the previous sentence. such as "and a" So we don't always know if we are interpreting the translator correctly.
re: " don't think the canvas could be tested for microwaves other than showing it's been exposed to heat via water content heating up. "
--- there might be some subtle changes in molecular structure -- of coating, of dyes, of glues, perhaps the canvas -- a thing like flipping the position of a bond and bending a molecule into a different shape would show up. What I don't know is can someone get samples of the original materials that the cloth was treated with --- un-irradiated --- to compare with the tent.
--- any water in / on the tent would flash off at its boiling point (or thereabouts) and so would not heat the molecules (of the other stuff) up enough to cause a change; but a microwave would.
Loose-Cannon 06-09-2017 22:39 (GMT)
KMM... Cotcha, no worries (thumbs up)
YES, please post that link. THX
That was kinda the point in posting it. All kinds of tidbits can be obtained from the original case files. They are actually more thorough then I had previously thought. Do you want me to post the link to the viewable files so you can read the real deal?
LC : Is there something specific here you are pointing out ? besides the part about the green helmet I probably skimmed over in my readings
And LC, I responded to your comment because I thought we could discuss something maybe you had noticed in the "original files.
Boy, was I wrong ,here are the 1st 2 replies I received to a question I had asked :
"sorry if my years if study intimidates you --
that's your problem not mine."
"Once again: read ALL of my posts as I have
already answered many of these questions before"
Didn't take me long to drop to this level
Seems it has to be about BL, the way I see it the BL people have ONLY 2 things to point to, "someone has seen lights in the sky" and what I take to be some damaged or accidental exposures. Everybody has a right to their own opinion. But when you go to attacking me, your going to get it back. (probably not the best way to be)
It seems every comment has to be about the God BL and BL explains EVERYTHING !
It feels like your being indoctrinated into a cult !!!
There ya go... Take your ball and go home because you don't agree with someone while bullying them with names. Simply because you do not like what your hearing doesn't constitute a decline in conversation quality. You Nigel, have just as much part in all this as I do. Its still a free country Nigel, do as you please. BTW... You have posted alot of stuff and its hard to keep track of exactly what you do or do not subscribe to, but I do recall alot of assigning burns to BL.
What clothing articles were burned by the stove?
Search for "concussed or unattended" should be 4 posts most of them recent where i specifically point out the existence of the fire creates ambiguity as to the origin of the burns. The clothing is of course even more ambiguous because (as i've also pointed out) the stove had a habit of burning drying clothing.
I'm considering just not responding to you or KMM anymore because you're just dragging the quality of the conversation into ignorant idiot territory.
We really need a BB where people can filter others out.
You... By default, were the one explaining away burns having 'had' to be made via fireball. They were only 1m away from the fire btw...
"Near the fire, a half-burnt sock and a cowboy shirt were found. In the shirt money - 8 rubles. Semi-burnt helmet of greenish color. North of the fire at a distance of one meter head to the west, legs to the east near the corpses lie in the number of two."
Now, anyone having an issue with the context of these statements is just a full blown retard. If you ever bother to look at the original case files instead of having your head up each others ballsack, you will know what was found where. In this case the statement is referring to the cap found on the scene. Further more it tells the condition of said cap which I will leave to Nigel yo tell you whom it belonged to and why it was burnt and the head/hair was slightly burnt ...... Being found next to a god damn fire that is.
"The right leg is undressed, on the left is a torn brown sock identical to the detected half-burned near the fire."
Well lookie there... The left leg wearing the matching sock to the burnt sock found next to the fire. Interesting to note, Nigel would have one believe "oh they were drying their cloths over a fire for days". Unfortunately... Per the facts, the investigators made no extra mention to the other articles of clothing being burned. Now, you can run around the facts all day long but you know, and I know... That these items were addressed in a spicific condition because the condition was not of the others. In other words, this is NOT regular old drying of clothes.
You have a burned head and cap, you have a burned leg and sock. All next to a FIRE (which had pretty large half burned branches btw). The extent some have gone to twist the burned leg and head into being cosmic rays, BL electrical burns and the like are just plain false. Having the integrity to admit common sense can go a long freaking way is another matter.
Again.... Read the original case files. They are THE ONLY known documented facts we have. No fantastical conjecture required. The facts shown above are basic, and other examples are quite abundant within the evidence if you ditch the tunnel vision for just a moment.
@john. Just stop trolling me and being a baby. Your BL theory is no more important then any of the others, and your not convincing anyone otherwise by posting a buncha crap stating BL exists.
evidence : some people reported seeing a light in the sky!
If anyone has a camera from that period that laid out in the snow and water for 3 months, PLEASE send it to me. How can anyone doubt me with this kind of evidence ?
The explosion released enough energy to kill reindeer and flatten trees for many kilometers around the blast site. But no crater was ever found.
Sounds like ball lightning to me ! 8-)
Why should that stop you, nothing else ever has !
I've read LOTS of witness reports about alien abductions, ghosts, bigfoot, sea monsters, so yeah,............
Donner party ? nope survivors. Definite Indain stories about strange lights
I must of missed them. Name me some and the names of the dead. (verifiable)
@KMM - " You could use BL theory on any group that died with no survivors and no witnesses, but it has never worked where someone has survived. YOU EVER WONDER WHY ? "
Lots of accounts on this site with witnesses. Nearly all BL accounts have witnesses else you wouldn't have a report?
@LC - if it's the burnt clothing the problem here is that they've spent a week drying their clothing on the stove and regularly burning it if the person on watch wasn't attentive. Hence photo of burnt jacket. I'd like to connect the burnt clothing with BL but the stove prevents this.
"What's your "theory" about the snow melted into ice?"
Why does bad translation figure into LCs comment BUT not what you post woofie ??
exactly what does "Semi-burnt helmet of greenish color. " mean ?? Its not even close to a sentence. (not that LC would notice)
or what does : "legs to the east near the corpses lie in the number of two" mean ???
is that clear ?..... or what ? --- I'm going with what. What we know for sure that is --- numerous reports of something like ball lightning, accompanied by reports of explosions --- by numerous people and groups, spanning over a hundred years in time -- IN THAT AREA ! People who had no reason to even know each other existed -- no plot to confuse anyone -- they simply were reporting what they saw and heard -- ball lightning. (or whatever you want to call it) As for people who are just dead set on a murder plot -- put up or shut up -- show us some evidence. You're wasting precious digital space with your malarkey -- show me a decent translation to make sense out of. Otherwise you're just trying to waste our time with BS. What's your "theory" about the snow melted into ice? Yeti with flame-throwers? Martian landing craft ? Any reports of those in the last 100 years ? Do you seriously think the starved-for-cash-Soviet-Government tested some sort of secret weapon which no one has ever heard of (nor ever seen) by killing very expensive students of science and engineering ? ? ? You're out of your nut !
"near the cedar in 2 - 2,5 meters are broken off dry branches. The branches are broken off and on the cedar itself. Under the cedar in the pit found traces of the fire, as evidenced by half-burnt branches. Near the fire, a half-burnt sock and a cowboy shirt were found. In the shirt money - 8 rubles. Semi-burnt helmet of greenish color. North of the fire at a distance of one meter head to the west, legs to the east near the corpses lie in the number of two. Identified: Krivonischenko Yuri Alekseevich face up, wearing a shirt cowboy, torn pants. The head is thrown back, the eyes are closed, the mouth is closed, the lips are compressed, the right hand is thrown behind the head, the left arm is bent, the hand is raised above the chest. The right leg is extended, the left leg is slightly bent at the knees. The right leg is undressed, on the left is a torn brown sock identical to the detected half-burned near the fire."
See anything interesting Nigel??
don't know why they would do this -- does it do same to you ? There could be other stuff its doing so I suggest we boycott that site. --- also its listed under google groups so if anyone knows how to report it to google let me know.
also, Nigel : I've posted that wiki on microwave burns twice (and noted yours) --- I was wondering if, given today's technology what the material of the tent might show -- I wonder what tests we have now that we didn't have in the 1950's -- for instance, could intense microwaves (or other electrical) cause a detectable chemical change in the cloth / dyes / ducking (the waterproofing) that we might look for; maybe with a gas chromatograph, or a mass spectrometer of some sort, including magnetic.
You can thank the arrogant narcissist assmonkey bottom dwelling cheeto-stained wife-beater wearing Mr. I-am-the-authority so don't have a differing opinion or I will conduct myself like a little titty-baby whiny-crybaby pissy-pants toddler.
Heck, the BL theory actually had 'some' credibility before John the Narcissist started ridiculing those who do not lick his toes while he googles fireballs. 99% of the BL discussion has been spent posting needless crap in a self indulging need to prove BL exist. We know it exists you asshat but unfortunately for you, its very existence does NOT in anyway prove jack squat in regards to what happened to the Dyatlov group. All I see here is a narrow-minded echo chamber with a few folks that utterly cannot think outside the box and consider ALL possibilities. Shame really... Perhaps I should start a 'real' forum on my hosted server split into numerous theory sections and completely ban arrogant twits who attempt to bully people out of free thought. Wouldn't be the first time. (thumbs up).
How Narcissists See Themselves
1. I love myself and I know you do, too; in fact, everyone does—I can’t imagine anyone that doesn’t.
2. I have no need to apologize. You, however, must understand, accept, and tolerate me no matter what I do or say.
3. I have few equals in this world, and so far, I have yet to meet one. I am the best (manager, businessman, lover, student, etc. . . .).
4. Most people don’t measure up. Without me to lead, others would flounder.
5. I appreciate that there are rules and obligations, but those apply mostly to you because I don’t have the time or the inclination to abide by them. Besides, rules are for the average person, and I am far above average.
6. I hope you appreciate all that I am and everything that I have achieved for you—because I am wonderful and faultless.
7. I do wish we could be equals, but we are not and never will be. I will remind you with unapologetic frequency that I am the smartest person in the room and how well I did in school, in business, as a parent, etc., and you must be grateful.
8. I may seem arrogant and haughty, and that’s OK with me—I just don’t want to be seen as being like you.
9. I expect you to be loyal to me at all times, no matter what I do; however, don’t expect me to be loyal to you in any way.
10. I will criticize you and I expect you to accept it, but if you criticize me, especially in public, I will come at you with rage. One more thing: I will never forget or forgive, and I will pay you back one way or another—because I am a “wound collector.”
11. I expect you to be interested in what I have achieved and in what I have to say. I, on the other hand am not at all interested in you or in what you have achieved, so don’t expect much curiosity or interest from me about your life. I just don’t care.
12. I am not manipulative; I just like to have things done my way, no matter how much it inconveniences others or how it makes them feel. I actually don’t care how others feel—feelings are for the weak.
13. I expect gratitude at all times, for even the smallest things I do. As for you, I expect you to do as I demand.
14. I only associate with the best people, and frankly, most of your friends don’t measure up.
15. If you would just do what I say and obey, things would be better.
Just pointing out what i said back then :-
"@Rol88 - coming back to you wrt the electrical burns in the tent and there being no sign of burning on the tent or it's contents.
What if their injuries were not electrical burns but microwave burns? - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_burn This explains how they were injured in the tent without any burning elsewhere. The tent fabric would perhaps have got hot but not enough to discolour as it would take longer to heat up being colder and with a covering of snow, the damp cavities within the bamboo pole heated quickly and split it.
Perhaps the radiation was only intense at one end of the tent as the BL passed near, just affecting the pole and two occupants who in effect shielded the others.
Now you have your reason for cutting the tent open and getting everyone out as fast as possible."
Yes the mezoeletric stuff is interesting and the looo.ch site talks of anomolous terrain interfering with radar. Could all be true, but i think given the global reports of UFO activity that this phenomena or something similar can be induced solely by atmospheric effects.
I just googled my favorite term
........... "brainless trolls"
You should look up "Narcissism" and refusing to admit when you are wrong !
........... "brainless trolls"
and got : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHgGG_XzVgY
is he drunk? or just been up all night drinking diet soda's and eating cheato's ?
could not find an entry for @John - see my post - 06-05-2017 12:54 (GMT)
but I did find an interesting site / post -- still reading it:
Loic 06-10-2017 07:49 (GMT)
I've found this website with an interesting explanation of the glowing balls seen in the area :
- natural and massive electrical discharge
Interesting to read
https://sites.google.com/site/mezoelectric/dyatlov-pass-incident-1
Wow, I wish John Pantywaist would show us what his favorite google search term for the day was........wait, never mind.
If that photo had turned up on 1 of the cameras's, you would swear it was evidence of BL
Human body is like 50-65% water. Don't you think it would show internal damage ?
"On July 29, 1977, H.F., a 51-year-old teacher, was attempting to remove a casserole dish from her new 600-watt microwave oven. The oven signaled the end of the heating cycle, but the light and the cooking blower were on. During retrieval of the dish, she inserted two thirds of her bare forearms into the oven, for a total time of about five seconds. The oven was still operating. She felt "hot pulsating sensation" and burning in fingers and fingernails and a sensation of "needles" over the exposed areas. Jabbing pain, swelling, and RED-ORANGE DISCOLORATION of dorsal sides of both hands and forearms appeared shortly afterwards."
--- I don't know if this explains any of the discoloration seen in the 9 hikers --- but it might.
here's the wiki address: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_burn
recall from my previous post -- that there was MELTED SNOW at the tent area for about 20 or 30 meters which turned the snow into ice --- ALSO --- searchers report that various small items of clothing were (blown from the tent area? and) locked into melted snow --- so tell me this --- how did this happen ? How did snow melt into water (and then re-freeze into ice -- in several large, many meters wide spherical patterns ) when it was night in a Siberian blizzard with high winds and snow falling and it was somewhere between minus 20 and minus 30 centigrade ? ... ON A MOUNTAIN SIDE ?
Do any of you know that the way your microwave oven works is largely by heating the water molecules in the food you are cooking/heating. With this in mind -- the microwave damage to skin should be minimal --- unless the skin is WET ! You know, like if you were outside, with exposed skin, in a snowstorm.
inspection Labasa
March 2, 1959 Camp search party in the Upper stream of the river. Auspii Prosecutor prosecutor of the Prosecutor's Office of the Sverdlovsk Region Ivanov, in the presence of the head of the search party, Comrade Maslennikov (Sverdlovsk, Zavodskaya Str. 32), and Slobtsov Boris Efimovich (Sverdlovsk, Lenin Str., 13a, apt. 23) with the 78th CPC pcfsr this protocol is as follows:
On this day, in the upper reaches of the Auspii rivers, under the pass to the Lozvu River, a storage unit (food store) of the Dyatlov group was found. Labaz is located on the site of the group's overnight stay, it is well closed with cooked firewood, covered with cardboard, pine paws. At the store, skis are stuck in the snow, one pair, on the toe of the skis hang torn leggings.
Sheet 9
- 2 -
The following quantity of products was found during the excavation of the storage:
1. Condensed milk 2.5 kg.
2. Meat canned in cans 4 kg.
3. Sugar - 8 kg.
4. Butter - 4 kg.
5. Boiled sausages - 4 kg.
6. Salt - 1,5 kg.
7. Kissel-compote - 3 kg.
8. Oatmeal porridge and buckwheat 7.5 kg.
9. Cocoa 200 g
. 10. Coffee - 200 g.
11. Tea - 200 g
. 12. Koreake - 3 kg.
13. Milk powder - 1 kg.
14. Sugar sand - 3 kg.
15. Rusks - 7 kg and noodles - 5 kg.
16. In addition, it was found: a
mandolin, a pair of shoes 41 size, and in them wearing socks, a pair of warm shoes, a set of fasteners, 2 batteries mounted with a light bulb for lighting.
Sheet 10
- 3 -
According to Blinov, warm boots belong to Dyatlov.
Since the products are not of interest for the investigation, they were transferred to the head of the party, Comrade Maslennikov, as an emergency supply. All the containers from the foodstuffs, as well as the mandolin, 2 pairs of shoes, socks and bindings are withdrawn.
The protocol is read, written correctly.
Maslennikov (signature) Slobtsov (signature)
Prosecutor criminalist ml. counselor of justice Ivanov (signature)
Sheet 233
Protocol No. 1 of the identification of things Krivonischenko
Inventory of things, Sverdlovsk, March 30, 1959
Prosecutor-criminalist of the Prosecutor's Office of the Sverdlovsk region, ml. counselor of justice Ivanov in the presence of witnesses Yudin Yuri Efimovich, student UPI, gr. I-480 and Khamova Galina Nikolaevna, UPI, gr. C-344, presented Krivonischenko Igor Alekseevich - the brother of Krivonischenko, the fugitive GA. personal equipment that is supposed to belong to G. Krivonischenko.
Krivonischenko, after examining the equipment presented, said that his brother, Krivonischenko Georgiy, owned the following items:
1. The backpack is black, old, with long protective-colored belts sewn with black threads.
2. A hood made of blue staple satin.
3. Compass, string, badges "hiker" and "Second Sports category."
4. Mandolin in a white sac.
5. Gauntlets made of decorative fabric.
6. The balaclava is gray.
7. Fur stockings - 1 pair.
8. The blue shirt is burnt.
9. White white shirt, cowboy.
10. Suit-Storm and trousers.
All of the above things Krivonischenko Igor Alex. Identified firmly.
The protocol is recorded correctly. Signatures: 1. Kryvonischenko, 2. Khamov, 3. Yudin.
Prosecutor-criminalist Ivanov (signature).
Sheet 234
Receipt
Me, Krivonischenko I.A. Items listed in this protocol are listed from No. 1 to No. 11. Signed: Krivoyshchenko.
In addition, Krivonischenko I. identified and received an ax, a flask, winter three-fingered gloves. Signed by: Krivonischenko.
In addition, Kivonischenko identified and received a blanket of old, red-brown, cloth, signature (Krivonischenko).
In addition, Krivonischenko identified black felt boots, old ones, sewn with a thick layer of gray koshma. Valenki received on April 7, 1959 Signed (Krivonischenko).
Sheet 235
Protocol of identification of things No. 2, Sverdlovsk, March 30, 1959
Prosecutor criminalist of the Prosecutor's Office of the Sverdlovsk region, ml. Counselor of Justice Ivanov, this date in the presence of witnesses: Yudin Yuri Efimovich, I-480 and Khamova GN, gr. C-344 presented Blinov gr. F-5 personal equipment of dead hikers. Blinov Yu.A., after inspecting the equipment, said that
IA Dyatlov. belongs to the iron stove.
Doroshenko Yu.N. belongs (presumably) a new blue Vigonia sweater (Blinov knows that before leaving for the trek Doroshenko bought some sweater).
Kolevatov A. belong: buckets in the amount of 2 pcs.
The record is correct, the signatures are:
1, Blinov, 2. Khamov, 3. Yudin, Pr-r to Ivanov.
Sheet 236
Protocol of identification of things No. 3, Sverdlovsk, March 30, 1959.
Prosecutor-criminalist of the Prosecutor's Office of the Sverdlovsk Region, ml. counselor of justice Ivanov, this day in the presence of witnesses: Yudin Yuri Efimovich, student of UPT, gr. I-480 and Hamova Galina Nikolaevna, UPI, gr. C-344, presented by Pyatnitskiy Pyatnitsky. - the sister of the deceased IA Dyatlov. Personal equipment, which is supposed to belong to IA Dyatlov. R.Dyatlova having examined the presented equipment, has declared, that its brother - Igor Dyatlov belong the following things:
1. Fur sleeveless,
2. Jacket leather fur.
3. Svitre blue, paper.
4. Mitten black suede.
5. Boots are black, cloth.
6. Compass, glasses with a case, a knife.
7. Panties are black.
8. Winter cap knitted, woolen,
9. Storm.
10. Cowboy.
11. Sharovars, - brown and green.
12. The shirt is blue.
All of the above items Dyatlov RA. identified firmly.
Signatures: 1.Dyatlova, 2. Khamov, 3.Yudin.
Prosecutor-criminalist Ivanov (signature).
Sheet 237
Receipt. By me, Dyatlova R.A. things listed in this protocol are things from 1 to 12 and the stove specified in protocol No. 2. Signed by: Dyatlova.
G. Pervouralsk, Sadovaya, 13, Alexey Alexandrovich Dyatlov. (postscript)
Sheet 238
Protocol of identification of things No. 4, Sverdlovsk, March 30. Prosecutor-criminalist of the prosecutor's office of the Sverdlovsk region, ml. counselor of justice Ivanov, this day in the presence of witnesses: Yudin Yuri Efimovich, student of UPT, gr. I-480 and Hamova Galina Nikolaevna, UPI, gr. C-344, showed Radosteva Galina Grigorievna - student gr. P-462 personal equipment, which is supposed to belong to Kolmogoroy Zina. Радостева, having examined the presented equipment, has curtailed, that Kolmogorova belong the following things:
1. The blouse is woolly variegated.
2. Handkerchief with a hem.
3. Scarf is red woolen.
4. Mittens are blue woolen.
5. Cowboy.
6. T-shirt with a fur collar, with a hood.
7. Storm, canvas. Green. Personal.
8. Black wool socks.
9. Blanket blue from 10 stud. Shells.
10. The gloves are black. Wrapped in green canvas, white socks trimmed with the same.
11. Svitre blue, woolen.
12. Trousers for skiing.
13. Caps red woolen and blue.
14. The cowards are gray.
15. Brown socks are tartan.
16. The trousers are black.
17. Panties are blue, warm.
Sheet 239
All of the above things Radostev recognized firmly.
The record is correct, the signatures:
1, Blinov, 2. Khamov, 3. Yudin, Prosecutor criminologist Ivanov.
Receipt by
me, Radosteva GG, items listed in this protocol are listed from No. 1 to No. 17 and in the report of inspection of things No. 6 (from No. 1 to No. 4).
Signed: Радостева-6 апр. 1959
Sheet 240
Protocol of identification of things № 5, Sverdlovsk, March 30. Prosecutor-criminalist of the Prosecutor's Office of the Sverdlovsk Region, ml. counselor of justice Ivanov, this day in the presence of witnesses: Yudin Yuri Efimovich, student of UPT, gr. I-480 and Hamova Galina Nikolaevna, UPI, gr. C-344, showed Kostrulin Viktor Nikolaevich, Student UPI, gr. R-463 personal equipment Doroshenko Yu.N., which is supposed to belong Doroshenko. Kostrulin VN, after examining the equipment, announced that his friend Doroshenko Yu.N. belong the following things:
1. The trolley is blue.
2. Shaped lamb, which was taken from Kostrulina.
3. Fur sleeveless, which was taken from Gainutdinov Farid, gr. P-463.
4. Fusions blue satin.
5.Noski simple brown.
6. The tank top is green.
7. Cowboy in a large cage "Bulgaria ..." (illegible).
8. Wool knitted socks.
9. Scarf is brown.
10. Blanket woolen, brown, which was taken from 10 stud. Shells.
11. Panties satin blue.
12.Sharovary blue, knitted.
13. Socks.
All of the above items Kostrulin VN. identified firmly.
Signatures: Kostrulina, Hamova, Yudin and Ivanov.
Sheet 241
The protocol is recorded correctly.
Signatures of the
Receipt: By
me, Kostrulin V.N. received items listed in this protocol, No. 2 and 3.
Signature Kostrulina.
Receipt
Me Shulyatevym Vasiliem Andrianovichem obtained listed in this protocol things under № 1, №№ 4, 5, 6, 7,8, 9, 11, 13, 12 and referred to in the protocol № 2 blue sweater to send their enclosure in Aktyubinsk, in the name of Doroshenko Volodya, brother of Yura Doroshenko.
Signature: Шуляев. April 9, 1959
Sheet 242
Protocol of identification of things No. 6, Sverdlovsk, March 31, 1959
Prosecutor-criminalist of the Prosecutor's Office of the Sverdlovsk Region, counselor of justice Ivanov, this day in the presence of witnesses: Yudin Yuri Efimovich, student of UPT, gr. I-480 and Hamova Galina Nikolaevna, UPI, gr. C-344, presented Margarita Alexandrovna Mitrofanova - a friend of Kolmogorova's personal equipment for the trek of Z. Kolmogorova who died.
Mitrofanova MA, having examined the equipment, firmly stated that Z. Kolmogorova belonged to:
1. Black trousers-tights black
2. Bathing suit black.
3. Cases for mittens blue with an elastic band in the number of 2 pcs. (crossed out word "mittens" is omitted)
4. T-shirt blue knitted.
Sheet 243
Prosecutor-criminalist of the Prosecutor's Office of the Sverdlovsk Region, ml. counselor of justice Ivanov, this day in the presence of witnesses: Yudin Yuri Efimovich, student of UPT, gr. I-480 and Hamova Galina Nikolaevna, UPI, gr. C-344, presented the parents of Slobodin Rustik with personal equipment, which is supposed to belong to Slobodin's bastard R.
Samsnova Nadezhda Feodorovna, having examined the equipment presented, she stated that her son owned the following things:
1. Binoculars.
2. The ax.
3. Satin wide trousers.
4 pairs of sock, gray and brown.
5. 2 balaclavors.
6. Towel.
7. Phonemic.
8. One felt boots.
9. The telogram.
10. The blanket is brown, cloth.
All of the above things are Samsonov NF. identified firmly.
The protocol is recorded correctly.
Signatures: 1. Yudin, 2. Khamov, 3. Slobodin-Samsonov.
The things listed in this protocol from №1 to №10 have received: N.Samsonova (signature). 7.04.59. Ivanov (signature)
Sheet 244
Prosecutor-criminalist of the Prosecutor's Office of the Sverdlovsk Region, ml. counselor of justice Ivanov, this day in the presence of witnesses: Yudin Yuri Efimovich, student of UPT, gr. I-480 and Hamova Galina Nikolaevna, UPI, gr. C-344, presented to Khalizov Vyacheslav Ivanovich, a student of the city. P-559 personal equipment, which is supposed to belong to the dead Thibaut Nicholas.
Khalizov, having examined the equipment presented, stated that Thibaut belong to the following things:
1. A two-handed saw, Tybo was taken from someone.
Khalizov also said that Doroshenko owns the mitten-fur coat, which Doroshenko took before leaving Khalizov.
All of the above items Khalizov VI. identified firmly.
The protocol is recorded correctly.
Signatures: 1. Khalizov, 2. Khamov, 3. Yudin
Receipt
By me, VI Khalizov. got mittens, which I gave Doroshenko Yu. Signature: Khalizov.
Sheet 245
Protocol of identification of things No. 8, Sverdlovsk, April 1, 1959
Prosecutor-criminalist of the Prosecutor's Office of the Sverdlovsk Region, ml. counselor of justice Ivanov, this day in the presence of witnesses: Yudin Yuri Efimovich, student of UPT, gr. I-480 and Hamova Galina Nikolaevna, UPI, gr. C-344, showed Kortev, NV, UPI, gr ... personal equipment of the dead hikers. Kortev NV, having examined the equipment, stated that Dyatlov belonged to:
1. A blanket of red cloth from 10 studios of the UPI building.
2. Mug of green enamel.
The protocol is recorded correctly.
Signatures: 1. Kortev, 2. Khamov, 3. Yudin. Protocol-criminalist Ivanov (signature).
Sheet 246
Protocol of identification of things No. 9, Sverdlovsk, April 1, 1959
Prosecutor-criminalist of the Prosecutor's Office of the Sverdlovsk Region, ml. counselor of justice Ivanov, this day in the presence of witnesses: Yudin Yuri Efimovich, student of UPT, gr. I-480 and Hamova Galina Nikolaevna, UPI, gr. C-344, showed Dubinina Ie Vladimirovna - the mother of the deceased Luda Dubinina personal equipment, which is supposed to belong to L. Dubinina. Dubinin, having examined the equipment presented, stated that her daughter owned the following things:
1. Blanket blue woolen
2. Handkerchief
3. Socks 2 pairs of brown, woolen.
4. Trunks knitted.
5. The helmet is white woolen.
6. The mug is green.
7. Hedgehog and rubber bear, which Luda bought before the departure as a birthday gift to someone.
8. Boots black new.
9. Tooth. Brush, soap dish.
10. Bear in the evil. Pants and brown shirt personally Ludin.
11. Thirteen sacks of food that Luda was preparing before leaving.
12. Sports cap, white.
13. Woolen white scarf, narrow.
All of the above items Dubinin I.V. identified firmly.
Signatures: 1. Dubinina, 2. Yudin, 3. Khamov, pr-r cr-t Ivanov.
Sheet 247
Receipt by
Me, Dubinoy I.V. received the things listed in this protocol from No. 1 to 13. Signature
In addition (these are listed 13 things), Iya Vladimirovna Dubinina identified a green backpack, which is also handed along with these things.
Signature: Dubinina., 6.04.59.
Sheet 248
Protocol of identification of things No. 9, Sverdlovsk, April 3, 1959.
Prosecutor-criminalist of the Prosecutor's Office of the Sverdlovsk Region, ml. counselor of justice Ivanov, this day in the presence of witnesses: Yudin Yuri Efimovich, student of UPT, gr. I-480 and Hamova Galina Nikolaevna, UPI, gr. C-344, presented Belyasov Alexander Danilovich, the mechanization management technique No. 1, who lived in the same room in the hostel with Thibault Brignol Coley, personal equipment, which is supposed to belong to N. Tibo.
Belyasov said that Thibault N. owned the following things:
1. Svitre brown woolen, new.
2. Glasses in a green case.
3. Flashlight "Artel Saunobut Chernovitsy" (taken from Kruglyakov, a neighbor in the hostel). The inscription "round flask" is crossed out.
4. Mug is aluminum and a spoon.
5. Storm.
6. Cowboy in a large red cage.
7. Old felt hat, black.
8. The ax is large, with a tottering beak.
9. The soap dish is yellow.
10. Backpack green old Belyasov saw in Tibo house, but whose he does not know.
11. Thibaut departed in gray boots, which are not. - The inscription is crossed out.
12. The baby boogie is made of cotton. - The inscription is crossed out.
11. The saw, taken from the master in the instrumental
Sheet 249
Belyasov asserts that Thibaut N. took lychees with him, but here it is not. Among the presented things, one quilted jacket is like a quilted Teabo quilted jacket, but it is small and burnt. In addition, Thibaut took with him gray felt boots new, cotton trousers and a fur hare white color, which are also not here. Nothing can be said about the blanket (Aunt Thibaut N. knows about this).
The protocol is recorded correctly.
Signatures: 1. Khamova, 2, Yudin, 3. Belyasov. Prosecutor Ivanov (signature).
Sheet 250
Protocol of identification of things No. 11, Sverdovsk, April 4, 1959
Prosecutor-criminalist of the Prosecutor's Office of the Sverdlovsk Region, ml. counselor of justice Ivanov, this day in the presence of witnesses: Yudin Yuri Efimovich, student UPI, gr. I-480 and Hamova Galina Nikolaevna, UPI, gr. C-344, presented Kolevatova Rimma Sergeevna, the sister of the deceased Alexander Kolevatov, personal equipment, which is supposedly owned by Kolevatov.
Колеватова, having examined the presented equipment has declared, that Колеватову belong the following things:
Sheet 251
1. Comb, screwdriver, pliers.
2. Storm suit: a jacket and pants of a dark green color.
3. Fur hat.
4. The flask is round.
5. Buckets 2 pieces.
6. Bar for the point of knives.
7. Mug is green, spoon.
8. Flashlight simple artel ud. (two words are crossed out) "MENAL (fuzzy) No. 3". Moscow.
9. Black teapot
. 10. Boots , taken from Sasha Bagautdinov, Faculty 4, are sewn on the train.
11. Mittens are white, knitted.
12. Woolen socks, brown.
13. The balaclava is gray, woolen.
The protocol is recorded correctly.
Further crossed out text: Kolevatova RS having inspected the presented things, declared that her brother owned (the end of the crossed out text.
All of the above items are Kolevatova RS identified firmly. Signatures: 1. Khamova, 2. Kolevatova, 3. Yudin. Dr. Ivanov (signature).
Sheet 252
The protocol of identification of things from April 6, 1959 No. 12
Prosecutor-criminalist of the Prosecutor's Office of the Sverdlovsk region, ml. counselor of justice Ivanov, this day in the presence of witnesses: Yudin Yuri Efimovich, student UPI, gr. I-480 and Hamova Galina Nikolaevna, UPI, gr. C-344, presented Muzafarova Elizaveta Iosifovna, the aunt of the deceased Nikolai Thibaut, personal equipment, which as
assumed belongs to Thibaut.
Muzafarova EI, after examining the equipment presented, stated that N. Thibault owned the following things:
Sheet 253
1. The hat is black, old.
2. The blanket is black with a patch.
3. Svitre is brown.
4. Glasses in a green case.
5. The backpack is green, old, personal.
6. The mug is green.
7. Storm.
8. Cowboy in a large red cage.
9. The ax is large with a loose beard.
10. Socks red woolen and brown, nasal scarves with a green edge, 3 pieces.
11. Mittens are brown woolen and leather black.
12. A box of tea with a compass, etc.
13. Penknife's knife is broken.
14. Box of candy with a shaving device.
15. Two-handed saw.
16. Socks simple 10 pairs.
All listed things are identified firmly.
Sheet 254
Receipt. By me, Yudin Yu.E. obtained belongings to me things:
1. Blanched green from the 8 th student's class.
2. Gauntlets-fur coats sheathed in black.
3. A sportive blue cap.
4. First-aid kit, bowler, mask.
5. Fur sleeveless jacket trimmed in blue.
Signature Yudin, April 7, 1959.
Sheet 255
My
receipt, Kuznetsov Nikolai Filippovich, the head of the warehouse of the sports base received the equipment of the dead hikers, belonging to the sports club of the UPI.
1. Backpacks: Dyatlov, Tibo (crossed out), Doroshenko, Slobodin, Kolmogorova, Zolotarev, Kolevatov - 7 pieces (crossed out, all surnames are recorded "in column"
2. Ski boots Dyatlov, Tibo, Doroshenko, Slobodin, Dubinina, Kolmogorova, Zolotarev, Kolevatov 8 pairs. (surname - in the "column"
3 Ice ax one.
4 gaiters 15 pieces
5. Storm suits
6. Storm jackets
7. cookware one
8. Ski trousers one black
9.Switter half woolen, black
10.
Painting (fuzzy)
Sheet 256
G. Sverdlovsk, April 8, 1959 I
received a
receipt, Bagautdinov AI, student of UPI, gr. F-453, boots were received, which I gave Kolevatov in the trek.
Signed: Bagautdinov (signature) 8.04.-59.
Sheet 257
G. Sverdlovsk (March 31, 7 - crossed out)
Prosecutor criminalist of the Prosecutor's Office of Sverdlovsk region, Junior Counselor of Justice Ivanov this day in the presence of witnesses Yudin Yuri Efimovich, student UPI gr. I-480 and Hamova Galina Nikolaevna, gr. C-344 completed the identification of things and found that they remained unidentified:
1. Masks from the wind 7 pieces.
2. Cowboy in a small cage is red with blue.
3. A case with glasses, with a cracked right glass.
4. T-shirt pink knitted with lengths. Sleeves.
5. Headbands gray 2 pieces.
6. A small iron top in a leather case.
7. Sneakers homemade in a green cage.
8. 2 toothbrushes: simple and in a case.
9. Scissors are small.
10. Woolen socks old 9 pieces.
11. Wax socks 6 pieces.
12. Simple socks 7 pieces.
13. Gray cloth woolcloths 2 pcs. and brown flannel 1 pc.
14. Gauntlets of 12 pieces.
15. Bags of food for 4 pieces.
Signatures: 1 Khamova (signature)
2
3 Yudin (signature)
Prosecutor criminalist Ivanov (signature)
How do you know yours is the better version?
Compare the last section of my post
Around the nasal ridge, the nasal tip and the upper lip, there are clotted blood traces. The upper lip is swollen. Around the vermilion border of the upper lip, there is a 1.5 x 2 cm dark red haemorrhage. The mouth is slightly opened. The teeth are white and even. The mucous membrane of the gums and the vestibule of the mouth is pale red. The tongue is in the oral cavity behind the teeth. Around the right cheek, the soft tissue is covered with a layer of foamy grey fluid. Grey fluid traces are also visible around the opening of the mouth. The auricles are oval in shape and bluish red in colour. Around the tragus and the lobule of the right auricle, there is a 6 x 1.5 cm thick brown red area. On the left auricle around the tragus, there is a similar 4 x 1 cm brown red parchment-like area. The auricles are bright red from the inside. ??? ??? without any distinctive features. On the inner arms and forearms of both upper limbs, the venous pattern is well-defined. Soft tissues of the upper limbs are bluish red. On the inner right arm, in the middle third, there are two 2 x 1.5 cm irregular-shaped brown red parchment-like abrasions without haemorrhages in the adjacent tissue. In the area of these abrasions, two linear incisions are made. By the anterior margin of the right axillary line, there is a 2 x 1.5 cm dark red skin abrasion area. On the front of the right arm, there are small brown red scab-like abrasions without haemorrhages in the adjacent tissues. In the upper third of the right forearm, there are 4 (?) x 1-, 2.5 x 1.5 and 5 x 0.5 cm stripe-shaped brown red abrasions. There are also small abrasions in the lower third of the right forearm. On the back (?) of the right hand, there is swelling of the soft tissue and small abrasions. On the back of the hand, specifically on the second metacarpal bone, there is a 2 x 1.5 cm brown-red abrasion with haemorrhaging into the adjacent tissue. The soft tissue of the hand and fingers, especially the distal phalanges, are dark purple. On the inner left arm, in the lower third, there are 3 x 0.5 , 1.5 x 0.7 and 1 x 1.5 cm brown red abrasions. On the sides of the left elbow joint, there are small brown-red grazes as well as 2 x 3 cm abrasions of the same colour with the parallel stripe-shaped sliding traces. On the inner left forearm, between the middle third and the lower third, there is a 0.6 x 0.5 cm irregular-shaped oval skin wound. The edges of the wound are slightly pressed down and covered with clotted blood. An incision was made around this wound, and haemorrhaging in the adjacent soft tissues was found. The soft tissue in the back of the left hand is slightly swollen and brown-red in colour. The distal phalanges of the fingers are dark purple. The thoracic cage is cylindrical in shape. The abdomen is located slightly lower than the thoracic cage. In the iliac area, there is an 8 cm linear whitish scar. The external genital organs are properly formed. In the area of the glans penis and foreskin, the soft tissue is bright red. The openings of the anus and urethra are clean. The muscle groups of the lower limbs are well-developed. On the back and inner thighs and shins, the venous pattern is well-defined. On the front shins, in the middle third, there are pale red parchment-like abrasions – 8 x 4 cm on the left shin and 5 x 1.5 cm on the right shin. The soft tissue in the distal phalanges of the toes is dark purple. Examination by touch shows that the skeleton bones and cartilages are intact. B) Internal Organs Examination The skin flaps of the scalp are moist, rich, glossy, and pale red from the inside. The skullcap and skull base bones are intact. The dura mater is bluish and hyperaemic. The pia mater is opaque and swollen. Convolutions and fissures of the brain are smoothed out and flattened. The brain matter is a greenish red jelly-like substance. The grey matter can hardly be distinguished from the white matter. Brain ventricle contours are indistinguishable. The cerebellum matter pattern is poorly distinguished. The base of the brain vessels is regular. The subcutaneous fat of the body is well-developed. The position of the internal organs is normal. The pleural cavities are empty. The pericardium contained about 40 cm3 of amber fluid. The size of the heart is 13 x10 x 6 cm. The cardiac muscle is dark red when sectioned. The left ventricle muscle is 2 cm thick, while the right ventricle muscle is 0.7 cm thick... The lungs are bluish red on the outside and dough-like to the touch. The lung tissue when sectioned is dark red...
The liver is smooth and glossy on the outside. The size of the liver is 27 x 17 x 12 x 10 cm. The liver tissue when sectioned is cherry brown and hyperaemic. The liver tissue pattern is poorly distinguished...
The bladder contained about 150 cm3 of cloudy light yellow fluid.
Some organs from the body under examination have been taken for chemical and histological testing to the Regional Laboratory... Conclusion According to the examination results of the body belonging to D-ko Yuri Nikolayevich, aged 21, and considering the circumstances of the case, we believe that the death occurred as the result of low temperature exposure (freezing), which can be proved by the following evidence: meninges oedema, strong hyperaemia in the internal organs, cardiac cavities full of liquid dark blood, petechiae in the gastric mucosa (known as Wischnewsky spots), an excessively full bladder, along with the third and fourth degree frostbite of fingers and toes. External examination showed damage, such as multiple abrasions and skin wounds caused by a blunt object that could occur as the result of falling or bruising against stones, ice, and other objects. The injuries mentioned above occurred while alive, during the agonal state, and after death. The injuries mentioned above can be described as slight injuries without damage to health. This examination of the body gives reasons to state that the last meal was consumed 6 to 8 hours before death. Alcohol was not found during the tests. The death is violent and accidental. Signed: Forensic Medical Examiner, Regional Forensic Medical Examination Office
Oss, Svetlana. Don't Go There: Post Mortem (p. 215). LiberWriter.com. Kindle Edition.
Sheet 104
ACT # 2
FORENSIC-MEDICAL RESEARCH OF THE BODY OF
DOROSHENKO Yury Nikolaevich, 21 years old
March 4, 1959 according to the decision of the Prosecutor's Office of the Sverdlovsk region of March 3, 1959 Forensic experts of the Regional Bureau of Forensic Medical Examination of the Sverdlovsk Region VOZROZHDENNIY B.A. and Laptev II. in the presence of the state counselor of justice of the third class Klinov NI, the criminal prosecutor Ivan IVANOV LI, and understandable com. GORDO S.D. and NASKICHEV K.V. in the morgue room of the central hospital of the office Box No. H-240 under daylight and sunny weather, a corpse of citizen DOROSHENKO Yury Nikolaevich was examined on the 21st year, to determine the cause of death and answer the questions indicated in the resolution.
The circumstances of the case
January 23, 1959 an amateur group of hikers consisting of 10 people went on a ski trip on the route Ivdel - Mount Otorten. From the site of the 2 nd North in the ski trip went 9 people. On February 1, 1959 the group began the ascent to Mount Oorten and in the evening broke the tent near the height of 1079.
On the night of February 2, under unclear circumstances, all 9 people died.
Sheet 105
- 2 -
a / external inspection :
The corpse of a man, the right body; posture of the corpse: upper limbs are withdrawn in the shoulder joints upwards towards the head, in a bent position in the elbow joints, and also in the area of ??the finger joints. The lower extremities are elongated. The head is turned to the left.
Clothes on the corpse: a spatula with a short sleeve blue in a red cage, with two patch pockets for 2 buttons, a cowboy buttoned to all six buttons. T-shirt sleeveless - knitted, salad color, panties and melting satin blue, knitted blue pants buttoned on two buttons. In the middle third of the thigh on the inner surface on the left, and on the right on the front surface there are rips of pants, measuring 22 x 33 cm on the right and 13 x 13 cm on the left. On the left leg are two pairs of knitted light brown socks, with rips in the area of ??the rear of the foot and ankle joint; woolen socks are white, with a heel trimmed, in the area of ??the forefoot on the toe, there is a burnt patch measuring 2 x 5 cm in dark brown color. On the right leg, the remnants of a cotton sock with an elastic band are the same color as the one on the left. Wool white socks. On the inner surface of the panties there is a marking label with the inscription STS1313.
The length of the corpse is 180 cm., Good nutrition, with well developed muscular groups; cadaveric spots of purple-colored color are located on the posterior surface of the neck of the trunk and extremities. Burial stiffness spread in the muscle groups of the joints; on the head dark-haired hair up to 6 cm long is trimmed under the "half-box". In the right temporo-parietal and occipital region there is a section of burning ends of hair, the hair is stained with remains of moss and needles of coniferous trees, the skin of the face is brownish-colored, the contours of the face are smoothed. Eyebrows dense dark-haired, eyes closed, cornea cloudy, irises
Sheet 106
- 3 -
brown, pupils dilated, mucous eyelid pale pink. The back of the nose is straight.
In the region of the back of the nose, the tip of the nose and the upper lip, there are traces of discharge of gore. Upper lip swelling, in the red portion of the upper lip hemorrhage dark red measuring 1.5 x 2 cm. Lips parted s, the teeth are even white, the mucous gums and the vestibule of the mouth are pale red, the tongue in the mouth is behind the teeth. In the area of ??the right cheek soft tissues are covered with a layer of frothy gray liquid, from the mouth of the mouth there are traces of discharge of liquid of gray color. Ear shells of oval form of bluish-red color, in the area of ??tragus and lobes of right shell, dense sections of brownish color 6 x 1.6 cm in size, on the left auricle in the tragus area a section of the same color measuring 4 x 1 cm in parchment density, ears with inner surface of bright red color. Neck xxxx without features. In the area of ??the inner surface of the shoulders and forearms of both extremities, the venous pattern is well pronounced. Soft tissues of the upper extremities are cyanotic-reddish, on the inner surface of the right shoulder in the middle third are two abrasions measuring 2 x 1.5 cm. brown color of parchment density of irregular shape, without hemorrhages in the underlying tissues. In the area of ??these abrasions two cuts of linear are made. At the anterior margin of the right axillary line, the site of dark red coloration is 2 x 1.5 cm in size. On the front surface of the right shoulder, small bruise-colored abrasions in the form of strips measuring 4 x 1 cm, 2.5 x 1.5 cm and 5 x 0.5 cm and minor abrasions in the lower third of the right forearm. In the area of ??the rear of the right hand, soft tissue swelling and small abrasions. At the rear of the hand, respectively, the second metacarpal bone is an abrasion 2 x 1.5 cm in size, brownish-colored with hemorrhages in the underlying soft tissues. Soft brush fabrics At the anterior margin of the right axillary line, the site of dark red coloration is 2 x 1.5 cm in size. On the front surface of the right shoulder, small bruise-colored abrasions in the form of strips measuring 4 x 1 cm, 2.5 x 1.5 cm and 5 x 0.5 cm and minor abrasions in the lower third of the right forearm. In the area of ??the rear of the right hand, soft tissue swelling and small abrasions. At the rear of the hand, respectively, the second metacarpal bone is an abrasion 2 x 1.5 cm in size, brownish-colored with hemorrhages in the underlying soft tissues. Soft brush fabrics At the anterior margin of the right axillary line, the site of dark red coloration is 2 x 1.5 cm in size. On the front surface of the right shoulder, small bruise-colored abrasions in the form of strips measuring 4 x 1 cm, 2.5 x 1.5 cm and 5 x 0.5 cm and minor abrasions in the lower third of the right forearm. In the area of ??the rear of the right hand, soft tissue swelling and small abrasions. At the rear of the hand, respectively, the second metacarpal bone is an abrasion 2 x 1.5 cm in size, brownish-colored with hemorrhages in the underlying soft tissues. Soft brush fabrics In the area of ??the rear of the right hand, soft tissue swelling and small abrasions. At the rear of the hand, respectively, the second metacarpal bone is an abrasion 2 x 1.5 cm in size, brownish-colored with hemorrhages in the underlying soft tissues. Soft brush fabrics In the area of ??the rear of the right hand, soft tissue swelling and small abrasions. At the rear of the hand, respectively, the second metacarpal bone is an abrasion 2 x 1.5 cm in size, brownish-colored with hemorrhages in the underlying soft tissues. Soft brush fabrics
Sheet 107
- 4 -
and the fingers of the hands are especially terminal phalanges of dark-colored color. On the inner surface of the left shoulder in the lower third of the bruise-colored grazes are 3 x 0.5, 1.5 x 0.7 and 1 x 1.5. On the lateral surfaces of the left elbow joint, small abrasions of brown color of parchment density and abrasions of the same color 2 x 3 cm in size with traces of slipping in the form of bands parallel to each other. On the inner surface of the left forearm, at the border of the middle third and lower third, the skin wound is of an irregular oval shape measuring 0.6 x 0.5 cm, its edges are slightly bent and covered with gore, under the wound, traces of gore. A cut was made in the area of ??this wound, where a hemorrhage in the underlying soft tissues was detected. Soft tissues in the area of ??the rear of the left hand are slightly swollen reddish-colored. End phalanx of fingers of hands of dark-colored color. The thorax is cylindrical, the abdomen is located somewhat below the level of the thorax. In the right iliac region, the dermal color of the whitish color of the linear shape is 8 cm in size. The external genital organs are developed correctly, in the region of the foreskin and glans penis of bright red color. The aperture of the anus and the urethra are clean. Muscular groups of the lower extremities are well developed. The posterior-internal surface of the hips and shins is well defined venous pattern. On the anterior surface of both shins in the middle third, the skin of the pale red color is of parchment density of 8 x 4 cm on the left, and 5 x 1.5 cm on the right shin. Soft tissues in the area of ??the end phalanx of the toes of the foot are dark-colored. The bones and cartilage of the skeleton are intact when tested. The stomach is located somewhat below the level of the chest. In the right iliac region, the dermal color of the whitish color of the linear shape is 8 cm in size. The external genital organs are developed correctly, in the region of the foreskin and glans penis of bright red color. The aperture of the anus and the urethra are clean. Muscular groups of the lower extremities are well developed. The posterior-internal surface of the hips and shins is well defined venous pattern. On the anterior surface of both shins in the middle third, the skin of the pale red color is of parchment density of 8 x 4 cm on the left, and 5 x 1.5 cm on the right shin. Soft tissues in the area of ??the end phalanx of the toes of the foot are dark-colored. The bones and cartilage of the skeleton are intact when tested. The stomach is located somewhat below the level of the chest. In the right iliac region, the dermal color of the whitish color of the linear shape is 8 cm in size. The external genital organs are developed correctly, in the region of the foreskin and glans penis of bright red color. The aperture of the anus and the urethra are clean. Muscular groups of the lower extremities are well developed. The posterior-internal surface of the hips and shins is well defined venous pattern. On the anterior surface of both shins in the middle third, the skin of the pale red color is of parchment density of 8 x 4 cm on the left and 5 x 1.5 cm on the right shin. Soft tissues in the area of ??the end phalanx of the toes of the foot are dark-colored. The bones and cartilage of the skeleton are intact when tested. The external genitalia are developed correctly, in the area of ??the foreskin and glans penis of bright red color. The aperture of the anus and the urethra are clean. Muscular groups of the lower extremities are well developed. The posterior-internal surface of the hips and shins is well defined venous pattern. On the anterior surface of both shins in the middle third, the skin of the pale red color is of parchment density of 8 x 4 cm on the left and 5 x 1.5 cm on the right shin. Soft tissues in the area of ??the end phalanx of the toes of the foot are dark-colored. The bones and cartilage of the skeleton are intact when tested. The external genitalia are developed correctly, in the area of ??the foreskin and glans penis of bright red color. The aperture of the anus and the urethra are clean. Muscular groups of the lower extremities are well developed. The posterior-internal surface of the hips and shins is well expressed venous pattern. On the anterior surface of both shins in the middle third, the skin of the pale red color is of parchment density of 8 x 4 cm on the left, and 5 x 1.5 cm on the right shin. Soft tissues in the area of ??the end phalanx of the toes of the foot are dark-colored. The bones and cartilage of the skeleton are intact when tested. The posterior-internal surface of the hips and shins is well expressed venous pattern. On the anterior surface of both shins in the middle third, the skin of the pale red color is of parchment density of 8 x 4 cm on the left and 5 x 1.5 cm on the right shin. Soft tissues in the area of ??the end phalanx of the toes of the foot are dark-colored. The bones and cartilage of the skeleton are intact when tested. The posterior-internal surface of the hips and shins is well expressed venous pattern. On the anterior surface of both shins in the middle third, the skin of the pale red color is of parchment density of 8 x 4 cm on the left and 5 x 1.5 cm on the right shin. Soft tissues in the area of ??the end phalanx of the toes of the foot are dark-colored. The bones and cartilage of the skeleton are intact when tested.
Sheet 108
- 5 -
B / Internal Research
Skin flaps of the scalp with internal dampness wet, juicy, shiny, pale red. The bones of the arch and the base of the skull are intact, the dura mater is cyanotic, full-blooded, the soft dura mater is turbid, swollen. The gyrus and fissures of the brain are smoothed, flattened, the substance of the brain is a jelly-like mass of a greenish-red color. Gray matter of the brain is not clearly distinguishable from white, the contours of the ventricles of the brain are indistinguishable, the pattern of the cerebellum substance is discernible poorly. the bases of the brain without features. Subcutaneous fat tissue of the trunk and extremities ("limbs" is clogged or corrected - approx.) Is well developed. The position of the internal organs is correct, the pleural cavities are free. The pericardial bag contained up to 40 cm 3 of an amber liquid. Hearts in the size of 13 x 10 x 6 cm., heart muscle on a section of dark red color, the thickness of the left ventricle muscle 2 cm, right 0.7 cm, in the right and left half of the heart was kept up to 270 cm 3. liquid dark blood, aortic and pulmonary artery smooth , thin, shiny, pale red; the coronary arteries are free, the arteries are enlarged, we pass well; inside the aortic surface smooth, clean, the width of the aortic arch ?? valves 8.5 cm. The lungs from the surface bluish red ??? colors, test doughs to the touch, on the cuts the tissue of the lungs is dark red, when pressed from the surface of the cut st. in a large quantity of liquid dark blood and foamy ??? yanistaya liquid; the larynx and bronchus lumen is free; mucous esophagus, trachea, bronchus bluish-red color. ???? the sub-lingual bone is intact. Thyroid gland on the incision of a flock of reddish color.
Sheet 109
- 6-
? 50 cm 3. liquid mucous mass of reddish-colored, mucous stomach of lilac-red color, swollen, with well expressed folding; On the upper surface of the folds of the stomach there is a large number of small hemorrhages - spots of Wischnewsky. A sour smell is felt by the sense of smell from the contents of the stomach. The pancreas is fine-lobed, lilac-colored in the section. In the lumen of the small intestine contained a mucus mass of reddish color, the mucosa of the intestine is bluish-red. In the large intestine, half-formed feces are light-brown in color, the mucosa of the intestine is pale-gray. The spleen is flabby to the touch, the capsule is wrinkled, the size of the spleen is 1 x 7 x 3 cm, the tissue of its dark-cherry color on slices, the pulp gives a slight scraping from the surface of the incision. The liver from the surface is smooth, shiny, the size of the liver is 9 x 12 x 10 cm, on a cut liver tissue of a bilberry-colored color, full-blooded, the figure of the hepatic tissue is poorly discernible, the gall bladder contains up to 30 cm 3. liquids of olific color, the mucous membrane of the gall bladder is velvety brownish. The kidneys from the surface are smooth, shiny, the capsule is easily removed from them, the size of the right kidney is 11 x 6 x 4 cm, the left kidney is 11 x 5 x 3.5 cm, the tissue of the buds is dark-cherry on the cut, the layers of the kidneys are poorly discernible. The layers of the adrenal glands are clearly distinguishable. The bladder contained about 150 cm 3 of a cloudy, light yellow liquid; the bladder mucosa is pale. In the study of internal organs, the presence of alcohol was not detected. the mucous membrane of the gall bladder is velvety brownish. The kidneys from the surface are smooth, shiny, the capsule is easily removed from them, the size of the right kidney is 11 x 6 x 4 cm, the left kidney is 11 x 5 x 3.5 cm, the tissue of the kidney is dark-cherry on the cut, the layers of the kidneys are poorly discernible. The layers of the adrenal glands are clearly distinguishable. The bladder contained about 150 cm 3 of a cloudy, light yellow liquid; the bladder mucosa is pale. In the study of internal organs, the presence of alcohol was not detected. the mucous membrane of the gall bladder is velvety brownish. The kidneys from the surface are smooth, shiny, the capsule is easily removed from them, the size of the right kidney is 11 x 6 x 4 cm, the left kidney is 11 x 5 x 3.5 cm, the tissue of the buds is dark-cherry on the cut, the layers of the kidneys are poorly discernible. The layers of the adrenal glands are clearly distinguishable. The bladder contained about 150 cm 3 of a cloudy, light yellow liquid; the bladder mucosa is pale. In the study of internal organs, the presence of alcohol was not detected. the bladder mucosa is pale. In the study of internal organs, the presence of alcohol was not detected. the bladder mucosa is pale. In the study of internal organs, the presence of alcohol was not detected.
For chemical research and histological examination, a part of internal organs from the examined corpse was taken, which were sent to the laboratory of the Oblast
Sheet 110
- 7 -
Bureau of Forensic Science for Research.
COURT.MED. EXPERT OF THE REGIONAL
BUREAU OF SUDMEDEKSPERTIZY - signature / REVIVAL /
COURT.MED. EXPERT OF THE CITY
NORTH-URALSK - signature / LAPTEV /
PROSECUTOR OF THE SVERDLOVSK REGION
STATE COUNCIL OF JUSTICE III CLASS - signature / KLINOV /
PROSECUTOR OF THE REGIONAL CRIMINALIST
PROSECUTORS ML.SOVETNIK JUSTICE - signature / IVANOV /
CONCEPT: signature / GORDO /
CONCEPT: signature / NASCICHEV /
Sheet 111
CONCLUSION
Based on the data of the investigation of the corpse of citizen DOROSHENKO Yuri Nikolayevich, 21 years old and considering the circumstances of the case, we believe that DOROSHENKO's death came from the effect of a low temperature / freezing / as evidenced by? edema of the meninges, sharp fullness of the internal organs, overflow with liquid dark blood of the heart cavities, presence of Wischnewsky spots on the gastric mucosa, bladder overflow, and frostbite of the limbs 3rd and 4th degree.
In case of an external examination, the damage in the form of precipitations, abrasions and cutaneous wounds is caused by a blunt instrument that could have occurred as a result of a fall or injury? stones, ice and so on.
The above damage was caused as during life, as well as in the agonal state and posthumously. By the nature of the damage, the above injuries are classified as lungs without a health disorder.
The data of the investigation of the corpse DOROSHENKO give grounds to believe that he had a meal 6-8 hours before his death. The presence of alcohol during the study was not detected. Death is forcible, accident.
COURT.MED. EXPERT OF THE REGIONAL
BUREAU OF SUDMEDEKSPERTIZY - signature / REVIVAL /
COURT.MED. EXPERT OF THE CITY
NORTH-URALSK - signature / LAPTEV /
What have you read?
Have you read the actual case files and autopsy reports?
N.B. the graph for a neon tube, quite modest voltage/currents.
"Depending on several factors, the discharge may radiate visible light."
My problem with that theory is that if SZ was a KGB field operative with a camera setup for night photography then he wouldn't be taking pointless pictures... That fact that the frame has been exposed makes it axiomatic that there was something he wanted to record.
Also apparently across all the cameras there something like 30 frames that are similar to the SZ's.
To overlook all these injuries as just small bumps etc is absolutely insane.
"If you look at the two pictures of melted and then hardened snow -- which extend for ten or more meters,"
You haven't proven said ice sheet exist, nor that a fireball produced it... This is your problem, not mine. Ever seen snow turn crunchy? Ever think conditions have changed since the fatal night? Of course not, everything was exactly as the fireball left it weeks before in some of the most extreme conditions on tje planet... Sure!
I'm getting excited about the 2012 photos on the viafanzine page 4 :-
http://www.viafanzine.jor.br/002imag/03_13/dyatlov4_objeto.jpg .
http://www.viafanzine.jor.br/002imag/03_13/dyatlov4_objeto2.jpg .
I think connected ion streams glowing at a node is a good explanation for the main object. SZ's plane photos plus the others now make sense. They're not erroneous from camera shake or water damage but of an object in the sky changing form over time. That's why he took each frame, the thing was morphing from one form to another. Could be applicable to the cloud like stuff as well.
@KMM/John - Wrt the den, if you sit down in the open in -20C you're not going to leave your gloves in your pocket or jacket unbuttoned. You're no longer keeping warm from activity so a closed shelter is axiomatic with the use of the seats imo. Svetlana Oss wonders if they had found a mansi hunter shelter as the floor seems to be very well constructed for a temporary hideout for a few hours. Apparently there was a "choom" 800m away.
So they must have been within a compact cave any more open structure wouldn't fit the above. Point taken about getting damp but they didn't have the outer layers for anything else. The only way to argue against the cave imo is to argue it was a lot warmer than -20C.
@LC - combat injuries - the problem here is that there is a group of bruises, abrasions cuts etc that are ambiguous, could be combat could be more innocent causes. The case against combat injuries is that there aren't ANY injuries that are CLEARLY combat related - broken noses, black eyes, gouged eyes, torn ears etc etc. The omission of clear combat injuries favours innocent causes for the others imo. I know you're not going to like that answer but it would be nice if you try and reply in fewer posts rather than as many as possible... Maybe just one post, i can dream...
photos that night show a raging storm with high winds -- I go with about 30 to 50 km / hr -- The Ural range is relatively smooth and worn-down, so would be subject to the very high winds we see in not only the photos of that night but nearly every modern video I've seen (and posted) of the area in the winter.
"Under natural conditions, a layer of snow four feet thick could never cover them: there was not enough time, nor snowfall so strong to produce so much snow."
The REAL mystery of the DPI.
The author says "where did the snow come from ?" its like it fell from the sky or something.
More BS, the guy never heard of drifting ???
Where does he think it came from ? Does BL now cover its dead with snow ? Another property of BL discovered ?
I would go with very windy.
"Traces at the scene of the incident
1) Presence of a heat source.
Weather Report for Ivdel raion:
"On the night of 1st. February 1959, air temperature dropped almost twice as compared to morning, reaching -20, -21 ° C. In comparison with morning values, air humidity was low, 56%, visibility was of 8 points (on average). Precipitations fell less than 0.5 mm. Wind north-northwest 1 m / sec. Blizzards, hurricanes or storms were not observed . "
On the slopes of the Mountain of the Dead, the temperature, obviously, was much lower, due to height and wind. With a high degree of certainty we can add here from five to seven degrees, which means that the temperature in the dyatlovtsy tent was approaching minus 30 degrees. In the conditions of a strong cold, the humidity is low (the indicated value is 56 percent), and the snow, dry and powder. There should be no ice at all.
But what do we see?
- Near the entrance to the tent, there was an ice patch in the shape of sharp, parallel "ribs" (such icy formations are called internationally from Sastrugui , which is the term of Russian origin). First responders paid attention to this ice islet, with a diameter of about four meters. The ice was very strong, ribbed, as if it were freezing in the form of waves; so that on these sharp "ribs" the snow blocks launched by rescue workers were easily broken off when they were looking for bodies near the tent."
Huh.... Who woulda thunk it! The author just pulls this fricked up crazy ass story outta thin freaking air!! No evidence, no quotes.... nada, zip, NOTHING! Unbelievable
It happened.. I was there... Its all proof in black and white, why question it!?!
to translate a page I had to first open the page (from the link I supplied) THEN hit translate -- the page always tells me that it isn't working -- THEN HIT REFRESH -- if that doesn't give you a page in English -- hit translate again -- once this is done you should still have to do this for the other three pages; once you've done this I think google sends you a cookie which when you click on the same page later you should get the page in English (if it comes up in a foreign language - just hit translate and it should work right away without any more fooling around)
Laff.... its about 1 mile you dingbat, and.... they had a map.... they knew where the trees were, and what evidence is there it was to 'hide'.....with a freaking fire!
The indicated lesions could have arisen as a result of the influence of a great force, which caused a severe closed, fatal trauma of Dubinina's rib cage. In addition, the injuries caused in life are precisely the result of the influence of a great force with the subsequent fall, pushing or bruising in the region of the rib cage of Dubinina. (...) Dubinina's death was violent . "
Meh.... cant possibly happen by falling...on a boulder... where she was found! The page author says the following..
"Simply put, the eyeballs were removed (even traces of the retina were not found by the expert, otherwise he would have indicated this), and the tongue, along with the diaphragm of the mouth, were simply pulled out. Such a conclusion is obtained if you pay attention to the "abnormal mobility" of the horns of the hyoid bone in which the tongue is fixed; that is, these horns were broken ."
This guy is a MEGA jackwagon..... she wasnt the only one missing eyes etc... SHE WAS FOUND HALF ROTTED FACE OVER A ROCK WITH RUNNING CREEK WATER POURING INTO THE FACE!
Where do these people come from.... is there no common sense?!?!
" Question: From the action of what force could Thibeaux obtain such injuries?
Answer: In the opinion, it is indicated that the injuries to the head of Thibeaux could be the result of a push, fall or throwing of the body. I do not believe that Thibeaux could get those injuries, falling short of his height, namely that he slipped and hit his head. The wide, depressed, multi-splintered and very deep fracture [of the calvarium and the base of the skull] may be the result of the throwing by a car moving at high speed, or another traffic accident. Such a trauma could have been caused had Thibeaux been struck by a strong gust of wind, with the subsequent fall and blow on the head against the rocks, ice, etc.
Question: Can one presume that Thibeaux was struck by a stone that was in the hand of a man?
Answer: In this case, the soft tissues would be injured, but this was not verified. "
He had on a winter cap!!!!! Meh BL dictates a 'shockwave' did this..... yeah, uh huh
So which is it?? (bat in hand) It was stowed or disassembled?!?!
Here ya go... Rustem