Head of the UPI search party Apr 25 - May 8
This is compilation from more than one source, each published on its own page (- n -). The original numeration of the questions is preserved. When citing use page and question number (p.2-3 for question 3. on page - 2 -).
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V.M. - I read your questions and counter questions involuntarily arise - why did they suddenly interest you? After all, any question should be, at a minimum, the beginning of some "path that leads to the temple", to the solution to the "mystery of the century". As I understand it if someone has their own interpretation of the incident and is missing "a little something" - maybe this "guru" will explain. Then the question make sense and it is clear how to answer it. But no offense! Unfortunately, I sometimes receive completely ridiculous questions (this does not apply to you). I will answer only in a manner that is clear to me (don’t blame me!).
1. On the slope in February-March was captured. this Mansi sign. Did you see him in April-May or was he no longer there?
V.M. - This Mansi sign was no longer there during our shift.
2. Vladimir Mihaylovich, try to remember which of the last four was wearing hats when they were in the stream? Thank you.
V.M. - I don’t remember who was wearing a hat.
3. Vladimir Mihaylovich, which version of the death of the Dyatlov group do you currently adhere to?
V.M. - I answered this question at least a hundred times (even to your Anton Pyhtin somewhere in July of this year). MURDER!!!! Whether it was premeditated or a manslaughter is another question.
4. Vladimir Mihaylovich, did you see the seizure of things and documents from the corpses, for example, passports (7 passports were not found, passports and notebooks were not officially found from the four in the stream), were ropes found? Vladimir Mikhailovich, did Dubinina’s corpse even have a neck or was its head supported on the spine?
V.M. - The corpses were not examined in front of us. They were taken out, loaded into the helicopter, wrapped in bags. All studies were carried out in Ivdel, about which we were not informed. There were no ropes. I didn't understand the question about the neck. (V.M. did not answer this question. - ed. note)
5. Vladimir Mihaylovich, were knife wounds and cuts on the faces visible on the corpses?
V.M. - Don't know. But, if there were, then Vozrozhdenniy should have noted it. And if you haven’t noted it, it means...
6. Vladimir Mihaylovich, what was Thibeaux-Brignolle’s head wrapped in?
Interview with Maya Piskareva, September 2012: "Lyuda and Zolotaryov lay facing the stream, and water filled their mouths. And the other two lay along the stream - their hair was washed away from their skulls and that’s all. One had a storm jacket hood on his head, the others had nothing."
7. Vladimir Mihaylovich, what would you do below the tent in the same situation (as the dead guys) and did they make mistakes in your opinion?
V.M. - I can't see myself in this situation. With my hiking experience there is no way this could happen. I would set up camp in the forest, not on a slope. But they didn’t make any mistakes - they survived as best they could!
8. Vladimir Mihaylovich, was it difficult for you to get firewood at the site of the tragedy and could the guys get firewood without an ax and a saw?
V.M. - It was not at all difficult for us to get firewood; it was more difficult for them, but not impossible.
9. Vladimir Mihaylovich, were the corpses tied up (tied) for transportation to the morgue?
(This question remained unanswered. - ed. note)
10. Question about the case file. Do you think your signature on the protocol is real or fake?
Interview with Maya Piskareva, September 2012: "I already told you about the prosecutor. He didn't write anything down and didn't photograph anything. All his conclusions are armchair inventions. But as for my signature on the protocol, I regret to inform you that it is fake. This is not my signature!"
11. I would like to ask about the "movement" at the airfield, but I foresee the answer. Something could have been clarified (but not a fact) by a person wandering around the airfield.
V.M. - I didn’t know anything about the "someone wandering" at the airfield. There are always a lot of such "people" everywhere.
12. Another question. There was information that during the search two fugitives were caught and they surrendered. Was this with you? What did they say about them later, what did they think?
V.M. - There was such information, but as soon as it appeared, it died down. The leader of the soldier group, Nikolay, explained to me that for the last 10 years, counting since 1949, there have been no attempts to escape. The fugitives had nowhere to go. A policeman was constantly on duty at the station in Ivdel; residents of the surrounding villages were warned that for harboring fugitives they would be charged as accomplices to the crime. The contingent of Ivdellag were former policemen, etc., on whom it has been proven that there is no blood! They knew they would be released someday.
13. What village 6-10 km from the mouth of Auspiya is mentioned in the radiogram?
(This question remained unanswered. - ed. note)
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1. What can Vladimir Mihaylovich tell you about trade union member V.E. Slobodin, same name as Rustem. Did he really collaborate with the services and collect dirt on the guys?
V.M. - I can’t say more about Slobodin than you know from Yuri Yudin's words. We met only twice, when I received the control center from them.
2.What can Vladimir Mihaylovich say about the situation in UPI after the scandalous conference of 1956?
V.M. - "I won’t tell you for the whole of Odessa", but I’ll try for the faculty. For a week or two the situation was tense and alarming. Arthur was a year older than us, and we knew from the stories of the dorm kids how Komsomol group meetings were held there. There was always an outsider or two present at the meetings. It’s hard to say who, but you can guess. Everyone was waiting for the wave of revealing meetings to roll down. But unexpectedly she stopped on Nemelkov’s course. Few people were interested in why. Later it turned out that at these meetings they began to ask questions to which those outside those present did not have answers, for example, should they read this speech in order to understand what Nemelkov said seditiously. The question is scary for that contingent. By the way, two years earlier I myself came to the attention of the authorities. Outwardly, the questions were friendly, but the intonation was such that it gave me goosebumps. And the reason was simple - without anyone’s permission (!!), on my own, as a savage, on my summer holidays, I went to the Moscow festival in 1957, good thing, I had a place to spend the night. Naturally, without any ulterior motive, I met many (not very... - about a dozen) foreign guys. I studied German at school, and English at college, so in Moscow I was almost a polyglot! We exchanged addresses. They wrote letters to me, but I knew nothing about these letters. One day I was called to the dean’s office and asked to talk “with my comrades.” On the table lay several opened letters that were for me. Questions began: how, why, why without permission (the faculty is under security), etc., etc. (and this was during their own holidays!!). And, most importantly, who did you meet with (the dean’s office workers all came out, the three of us talked!)? I answered all their questions without hiding, because I was sure that I had not violated anything. They probably realized this too, and the “free chatter” began. I asked what was written in these letters? The answer was evasive - they asked to send a photo. I had a camera and was going to do it, but, as you can see, they didn’t allow me! But the most interesting thing was, as they say, to the eyeballs. They ingratiatingly suggested that I tell them what, from my point of view, was “wrong” in the dorm. Naturally, no receipts were required. But apparently I refused so emotionally that they left me alone. By the way, I came “to the attention of the authorities” once again when I was the chairman of the city tourist club in Snezhinsk, but that’s a completely different story!!!
3. Does Vladimir Mihaylovich remember such cases when students at UPI suddenly went missing or died for unknown, strange reasons?
V.M. - No, I don't remember.
4. Regarding the notebook and pen in Zolotaryov’s hands. Because the dead Zolotaryov himself could not hold the notebook in his hand for 3 months, can you assume that one of the strangers (searchers) put the notebook in his hands late in the evening or at night before the removal of the corpses? Do you think that the notebook could contain the name of the killer?
V.M. - We were searchers, not forensic experts. I only remember what I saw myself, when Ortyukov feverishly leafed through it and it turned out to be blank (maybe the text was washed away by the water, then it’s not clear why the notebook didn’t get to the forensic lab... or maybe it did, but its contents are in a secret case file? ). You can make up any story, even the most incredible!!
5. Vladimir Mihaylovich, in one of your interviews with Maya, you said that the chairman of the student committee was constantly snitching on you. Can you tell me the name of this informer? Who else was an informant in your UPI besides the Chairman of the Trade Union Committee and the Student Committee? Gordo? Nadya Pyhteeva? Were there students whom the KGB officers came after and arrested right at the UPI?
V.M. - The informer grew a grudge against me not because of my possible anti-Sovietism, but because I believed that my sister (she also studied at the Physics and Technology College for the first semester, then all the girls were transferred to other faculties at their request) was too good for him. He was a war veteran who received benefits, a seasoned Stalinist. I don't remember his last name. All informers were classified, and only residents, as expected, knew them by sight.
6. Why did search engines suddenly start building a dam? Who suggested? Do you have a suspicion that the... who suggested - knew for sure that the bodies were in the stream?
V.M. - I described this in great detail in Maya’s interview. And Ortyukov suggested.
7. When the corpses were found, what color were their exposed skin? If you don’t remember, did it strike you that they resembled blacks, as some claim?
V.M. - The exposed skin of the corpses was snow-white. As for the dark color of their skin, I affirm this! I myself saw Zina’s face when her coffin stood in the lobby of the dorm. THE FACE was CHOCOLATE color. I don’t know where it turned black, maybe during thawing in the morgue?
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Vladimir Mihaylovich, and one more question. It is also, in principle, indirectly related to the injuries of the Dyatlov group. Of course, it’s not pleasant to me, but we have to ask. On the forums of some Dyatlov case followers (there are only a few of them, but they are persistent), from time to time you can read speculations on the subject that in May searchers may not have handled the last four bodies found in the stream very carefully. For example, they could have broken a rib or two of Semyon Zolotarev. There is even a photo from May in the case files, as if they were moving bodies up on drag sleds made of skis.
Could it have happened that some of the injuries to the last four bodies appeared during the discovery, excavation, and transportation to the top?
I will be very grateful for your answers. Best regards, Olga.
V.M. - "...About the accuracy of working with the bodies. The person who was mostly involved touching the bodies was Ortyukov himself. All work was carried out very carefully. And one should not pay attention to the inventions of armchair "dyatlov experts". By the way, in the photograph that you mentioned, the man in a white cap is Vozrozhdenniy.
From a letter from Vladimir Mihaylovich ASKINADZI, a member of the UPI student search group in April-May 1959 at the Dyatlov Pass (from personal correspondence).
V.M. - "... It’s too early for the prosecutors to talk about specific issues now - let them work with the collected material themselves. I hope that when they themselves understand that the caftan is not sewn, many questions will disappear by themselves. I closely followed almost all the reports from the Pass What immediately catches your eye? The trip (“expedition”) was completely unprepared - it was a mediocre impromptu, designed for another Malakhov hype, and, therefore, for a pre-expected zero result! Again one gets the impression that someone needs this hype, they again want to hide something behind it - some kind of another "increase in the retirement age"!
And, if it’s about the case, then even before the trip the initiators should have sat down at a round table and analyzed what is missing in the available materials (not only in the case files) in order to understand, as Kuryakov voiced the main goal of the investigation, "what was the unknown force" that killed the group? Who do you need for this? And so, when it becomes clear to them that for the final verdict (with an already formulated goal!!) this and that is missing, start recruiting a group. Not from specialists with titles (candidate, doctor, etc.), but from those who can systematically understand the causes of death. If you don’t know how to think systematically, find the right specialists at Moscow State University. They repeated the same mistake that Ivanov did in his time - without understanding it themselves, they did not attract specialists (if necessary, with titles - candidates, doctors) with knowledge of the specifics of mountaineering. And the students involved in the search were not only not allowed to do research work, and they were not able to ask them questions correctly. And now they didn’t understand why they were going, what they wanted to see? Only Sungorkin had hiking experience, but he also asked questions that were not necessary to ask at the Pass - he could have asked them a hundred times before the trip. A glaciologist, allegedly an associate professor at Moscow State University, began to explain what an avalanche is and whether it can fall on a tent with a slope of 17 - 20 degrees. Does anyone argue with this??? Tell me, can a voluminous loose body inflict local, fatal wounds? Can you, as a specialist, on the spot, from under your hand, determine at least the order of the energy of an avalanche formed at an extremely small slope angle for an avalanche, and whether this energy is enough to break 10 ribs without affecting the weaker bones - the collarbones? There is a forensic expert nearby - assistant professor - Tumanov, ask him!!! After all, it is the answers to these questions that will help you understand the absurdity of the avalanche theory! And this requires serious preliminary work even before the trip. What data are you missing for this?? Tell us and we will give them to you!!
Forensic expert Tumanov, squatting next to Dyatlov’s "stencil", did not say anything new, and could not say it, because there was no additional information to that which was publicly announced in the programs of Shepelev and Malakhov. Why did you go then? Make the discovery that the knuckles of Dyatlov’s right hand are broken? The Reborn One said this! The places where the corpses were found at one time were indicated by Kuntsevich, who himself had never seen this, but Kuryakov plotted their coordinates on the map with an accuracy of ± 0.5 meters!!! Circus!!! That's why I'm skeptical about the results of this hype!
But we will still ask questions. True, our representative is there - Pyotr Bortolomey, who, I hope, will not allow outright hackwork!!!"
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Researchers never tire of asking questions to V.M. Askinadzi. We thank him for answering them in direct dialogue this time.
1.a. Hello Vladimir Mihaylovich. In your stories, you described the bodies in the stream as allegedly Thibeaux-Brignolle, allegedly Zolotaryov, it is clear that the faces were severely damaged by the water. But now, having studied all the available photographs (on the trek, at the time of discovery, from the morgue), can you say whether in your opinion the person (allegedly Zolotaryov) who was found in the stream looked like Zolotaryov?
V.M. - I can definitely say that none of the recovered corpses looked like themselves before the tragedy, not just Zolotaryov.
1.b. Did you thought for a moment that the tent was actually pitched near the cedar tree before it ended up on the mountainside?
V.M. - No, it didn't get this impression. The idea that the tent could have been pitched under the cedar appeared relatively recently, two or three years ago. Kuntsevich himself is a passionate adherent of this! There is no data for this, except for a photo of a tent in the forest, not tied to any reliable landmark. They just pulled it out of thin air and are fooling people. Many people, out of inertia, still believe in the authority of the Kuntsevich Foundation, although it would have been a good idea to take information from there a long time ago with caution. Moreover, Kuntsevich invented a new location for the tent - on the den! Doesn’t it bother him that the tent is 4 meters long, and the den in any direction is no more than 1.5 meters!?
1.c. Do you remember if remains of human flesh or blood were discovered on the cedar trunk?
V.M. - I answered this question to Maya in our first interview. If there was anything, Ivanov's professional integrity should have forced him to scrape off these artifacts for further analysis, followed by publication in a newspaper where he asked for forgiveness from his relatives.
Interview with Maya Piskareva, September 2012: "I not only examined it carefully, but probably also sniffed it. These are my photos going around, where I photographed these two branches. There was nothing, no blood, no traces of any kind."
2. Question about the location of the D4 relative to the tent and cedar: In Maslennikov’s diagram, the D4 are located in relation to the tent - behind the cedar, that is, Tent - Cedar - D4. But modern trackers claim that the MP is closer to the tent, in front of the cedar, that is, Tent - D4 - Cedar.. Who is right?
V.M. - Those who saw the last corpses with their own eyes are right. Maslennikov has not been on the pass after mid-March. He handed over the leadership of the search to Ortyukov, so he could only know about the location of the last corpses from someone’s stories, as did those who were born 15-20 years after the tragedy, but are suddenly "experts"!
3. In one of your interviews, you said that when excavating Lyuda, you noticed that she was wearing blue satin men's panties. Didn't this surprise the searchers? Didn't this make you think that maybe someone else dressed her up?
V.M. - No, it wouldn’t have surprised me, even if she was completely naked. We would have calmly wrapped him in a sleeping bag liner and sent him to the helipad. We didn’t have the emotions that are raging now!! They worked like ants - they carried out Ortyukov’s orders without emotion.
4. Why did you make a dam in the creek? Who suggested that bodies could be in the water and what were the signs? And why waste time putting the dam together instead of searching for the bodies? Could a small stream carry 4 bodies far downstream?
V.M. - I have already answered questions about the dam several times. The first time, as always, I answered Maya back in 2013 (read my first interview with her). There was nothing to guess! We were preparing for the usual snow thaw, there was a lot of snow, the sun was hot. The decision was almost automatic, but Ortyukov suggested it first. Do you remember the photo of the dam? So, three years later, when Valentin Yakimenko and the guys went there, not a trace remained of the dam. Therefore, there is a difference between flood and flood. And there was also no doubt that the bodies could be in the stream, since before that both we and those before us had crawled all over the area - there were no traces of strangers, but we remembered that there were corpses all over the place. This means that you need to search without going far from the cedar. The dam is also part of the search.
5. What do you know about Lyuda being wounded in the leg during the 1957 trek? What rumors were there?
V.M. - All I know is what Pyotr Bartolomey, a living witness to the incident, told me!
6. What do you know about the tragic expedition in Trans-Baikal in 1961, when 4 guys died (2 were found in the water. Bartolomey writes: “the bodies of two guys were found, greatly changed, literally falling apart, the sight of which caused horror even among those who had seen many men"). But two were never found.
V.M. - About the tragedy in Trans-Baikal I know what's in the detailed report of Pyotr Bartholomey. I can add with the leader of the tragic expedition, Volodya Belyakov, I went to Altai on a trek in July 1959, together with Sergey Arzamastsev, who also died with him on the same trek. Except for Altai, before that we met at the pass. He was on Yuri Blinov’s shift, whom we replaced.
7. Vladimir Mihaylovich, please comment on the "cold night" without a fire and stove. And further. Sogrin suggested that the Dyatlov group cached and set up a tent at 1079 in order to easily reach Otorten and then return to the tent and then to the cache for the night. It seems logical to me, what do you think? Someone could have been left in the tent with their belongings. As an option. That is, the Dyatlov group left the cache or camp site in the morning, and not at 15:00, as someone came up with. They set up a tent and moved on.
V.M. - I always said that the place Igor chose to spend the night was his mistake. Whatever happened that fateful night, his decision only made things worse. As for Sergey Sogrin’s thoughts, this is his personal right! But he does not take into account that there was no firewood in the group, except for one log for kindling. Therefore, leaving the guys without firewood for the whole day is not the best solution! And it’s bad to go out on your own without a hot breakfast. Spending the night in the forest would not have significantly increased the time for approaches and ascent.
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8. In the photo presented - can you make the KGB officer?
V.M. - They didn't introduce themselves to us. But even if they introduced themselves openly, it wouldn’t bother us. KGB Security!! This means that we have arrived to ensure our safety when we carry out a state task!! What are the complaints against them??
9. How are food standards for a camping trip calculated: by the number of participants, by calorie content, by available funds? By weight per person? Has a requirement been submitted? Cardboard. Its purpose and your attitude towards the presence of cardboard. Was this the norm? Thank you in advance.
V.M. - No hard norms, and even <soft> ones, no such thing then. There was a two-volume Tourist's reference book, published back in the thirties, edited by Academician Okladnikov (?). There was a lot there, including food standards for trekking. No one made it mandatory to adhere to these standards, but it was very convenient to write off without thinking. The route books required this. They should indicate how much and what products the group will take with them, a list of public equipment, the contents of the first aid kit, etc. The task is to convince the Regional Route Qualification Commission that the initial average weight of the backpack corresponded to the norm (I don’t remember which one, since I never complied with these norms). After approving the trip and receiving a seal for the route at the bottom, no one was interested in what the group actually took with them.. Everything was decided by the leader!! On a trip to Altai (Katun River), my backpack weighed 63 kg with my weight being 61 kg (!!), this is for example, and when we went to Tsipu River (Trans-Baikal), my backpack already weighed 68 kg. What I mean is that all your Excel tables can take a hike. Nobody ever adhered to any norms. What if on the route someone got sick not like Yuri Yudin, but for a couple of days?? I was especially attentive, after the incident with the Muscovites, to the well-being of my girls. They, as a rule, were silent and did not complain. And suddenly some laughing woman stopped joking! Immediately, despite her protests, we shared her load. So, some groups took canned meat with them. Each can was generously greased with grease. As a rule, the group took several cans with them. You could get tired of scrubbing every can. It was easier to take cardboard packaging from the same store and put the dirty cans there. This is what those who left for a long time did.
10. According to historical data, in 1957 UPI received two military orders from the Ministry of Defense. They were initiated by N.I. Krylov. How often did you visit the UPI from the Ural Military District? In what course was the military ID issued and was the specialty chosen by the student taken into account in the column (military assignment)? Radio engineering has the main specialization. Radar and radio navigation engineer.
V.M. - Ural Military District constantly participated in the life of the institute. The military departments were actually its branches. His generals were the chairmen of military examination commissions. About the military ID. The military ID was issued along with the diploma. The student did not choose a military specialty; it was tied to the engineering specialty.
11. Vladimir Mihaylovich, who, what organization, planned, carried out and was responsible for the search at the Dyatlov Pass, at the site of the death of the Dyatlov group?
And did you or anyone else have the feeling that the guys died or could have died in a completely different place? And their bodies could have been transferred to the area of the cedar and the Kholat Syakhl slope, for example, by helicopter, and placed/dropped here.
V.M. - Sulman could not have organized such a grandiose event. Everything, equipment, food, travel allowances, and helicopters were financed by the Army! It was the only structure in the Country that didn't have to account how it spent the money, a structure with open financing! Another thing is where to write off this money later? Sulman, like any state-owned enterprise, the annual cost estimate is approved by the State Planning Committee of the region (then it was the Council of People's Commissars). To change the financial, approved, plan of an enterprise, especially upward, you need a decision from a fairly high level of management, but not lower than the Union Ministry! I think the additional funds exceeded Sulman’s budget many times over!! This means that this decision should not be for prying eyes, that is, it should be hidden very deeply in Soviet secret archives, and the documents were destroyed right away!!!
12. Was there crust in the area of the tent that you could walk on without falling through?
V.M. - In our time (end of April - beginning of May) we practically did not use skis.
13. During the search, did the Mansi live with you in the same tent or separately? Or did they come every day? Did they speak Russian or their own language in front of you? Did they stay apart or with you? Did they drink alcohol?
V.M. - The Mansi lived in the same tent with us, sleeping right at the entrance. They had their own Mansi blankets made of well-dressed reindeer skins, very soft. They spoke Russian quite well, but if they talked to themselves, it was in their own language. In general, they kept themselves apart and had lunch somewhere on the side without us. I can’t say anything about drinking - I didn’t notice, they appeared in the tent in the evening before going to bed.
By the way, quite recently, while re-reading Maya’s journalism (I often talk to her this way) in her work about Mansi, where Vladimir Androsov was the main informant, I went through <transit> interesting information. It turns out that Stepan Kurikov received a salary of 2,500 rubles a day (!) for his participation in the search. In our 5th year at the Faculty of Physics, we had a scholarship of 750 rubles (the highest at the institute. For builders - 350, and for economists, where Lyuda studied, even less)!! The salary of an ordinary engineer was 1300 rubles. Not bad?!!
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14.a. When the Polytechnic Institute began organizing searches, it turned out that the sports club did not have a map of the route of the Dyatlov group’s hike? Was it the norm not to submit the route sheet or did they delay the search on purpose?
V.M. - For hikes of the second and third categories there were not route sheets, but route books - a completely different level of responsibility. And handing them over to the Sports Council was almost the norm - such was the level of general sloppiness in institute hiking. Maya asked me this question too. I answered her that hiking in the country BEFORE Dyatlov and AFTER are completely different things!!
14.a. Photos of the searchers show stumps from freshly cut fir trees, which were found within a radius of 200 m from the Cedar. The trees were "cut down" at different heights, some were 50 cm, some were more than 1.5 meters. How were they chopped or cut? Maybe the fir trees broke when something heavy was dropped on them from an airplane or helicopter? Vladimir Mihaylovich Have you seen these stumps?"
V.M. - I don't know what we're talking about. One of Vladimir Borzenkov’s articles said that somewhere in the area of the First Tributary (I have a diagram on my Crimean computer, drawn up by him, indicating the location of felling), bushes were being cut down for landing helicopters. The bush was cut down, but the pilots refused to land there - they could land, but they couldn’t take off. Maybe this is what we are talking about? I didn’t see these stumps or didn’t pay attention to them.
15. Vladimir Mihaylovich! Did you give a non-disclosure agreement after the search (or before the search)? Written or oral? (like Sinyukaev). For how many years?
V.M. - No, I didn’t, and neither did my guys. However, before going to the pass, the party committee warned me (and I had to warn my people that if we discovered something, we shouldn’t discuss it in details.
(Comment by Elena Dmitrievskaya. To my question, did he saw any traces of shoes or skis, objects that could hardly belong to the Dyatlov group V.M. did not answer)
16. Dear Vladimir Mihaylovich! I have a question for you about the following. In an interview with Maya Piskareva, you said: “Another personal observation of mine: they cut off the tops of the trees and made the den after the guys froze under the cedar tree, since there were their things on the den, including trousers cut at the groin. This is only done from corpses" i.e. the den was made after two Yuras had already died under the cedar tree. If I understand correctly, then my question is this. Investigator Lev Ivanov, in his article in the fall of 1990 in the Kustanai newspaper, testifies on his own behalf: “During excavations in May, we found the corpses of Lyuda Dubinina and others. They died first from terrible internal injuries, but they were not abandoned. They were carried away from the fire, laid them down carefully. Even the dead, these dying men themselves, took care of them. This is how real people behave." That is, investigator Ivanov claims that those who were found in the stream in May died first, that is, Dubinina, Zolotaryov, Kolevatov, Thibeaux-Brignolle.
Vladimir Mihaylovich! Maybe you remember some other facts in favor that the Yuras were the first to die at the cedar? Maybe something else gave you this idea, besides the cut off clothes? If yes, please tell us.
V.M. - Today the den is going through something of a <renaissance>. I have already mentioned the Kuntsevich Foundation’s speculations in this regard. I think in the near future <reflections> about den will continue.
I think the den (assuming they did it) was done collectively when many were still alive. This is evidenced by a large number of <technological> transitions. Someone cut off the tops (I don’t know with what), someone dragged them to the place where they were laid, someone laid the den, and then the things. On this score, as always, there is no definite answer. Valentin Yakimenko believes that this is <someone else's> den, the guys just used it. Apart from his statement, there is no confirmation!
Regarding Ivanov’s statements. Firstly, it was not he who found it, but others. Next comes his personal emotions.
Who died first and who later is all circumstantial.
In the den lay the belongings of those who were found near the cedar. This is it!
With 10 broken ribs, Lyuda lived no more than 2 minutes (!). I don’t know if you are familiar with the breathing mechanism of men and women? If not, I will inform you additionally at your request. But Lyuda’s head lay in her arms, that is, with broken ribs and, probably being in a state of deep coma, she could not lie down like that without outside help! That's two.
Who are those who so <lovingly> did they put Luda down?? Nearby were only the helpless, but still alive, Zolotaryov, Thibeaux-Brignolle with a very severe head injury and Kolevatov. Only Kolevatov remains. Did he care about this then?! He probably already saw that there was nothing he could do to help People. And given such limited information, Ivanov could guess anything.
I have a different view on this, but I will calmly abandon it if a more convincing version or additional information becomes available. I'm waiting for the investigation of the Sverdlovsk prosecutors - they should pay attention to this.
Surely the den was made for a fire. At a short distance, a fire could help. According to research by Galya Sazonova (Vietnamka), the guys did not freeze at the same time for 2 to 8 hours. I think by the time the den was finished they were not quite adequate.
But it could also be <someone else's> den. At one time, when I was an active tourist student, I had such information. Often in winter, the Mansi family skied from Burmantovo to the western slope of the Urals (just to drink tea with relatives). If necessary, the wife could wait for her husband, having built a small fire, and practically sit on it. In this case, the small size of the den is justified.
I was not a witness when the first five were found, so I only know from eyewitnesses what it might look like a damaged phone. And what, cutting off clothes and laying them in the den is not enough to convince you that they died before those who were in the den??
17. Vladimir Mihaylovich, in 1959, what other sections were trained in the UPI besides hiking?
V.M. - There were 12 faculties, including physics and technology (I graduated from it), radio department, energy department, metallurgical, chemical, etc. You can find out more on the internet.
I can only name the sections where my friends or acquaintances participated. Climbers, weightlifting, parachute, auto-moto, volleyball, etc.
With gratitude to Vladimir Mihaylovich for his detailed answers and tireless attention to the topic and researchers.
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1. Did you yourself see the pocket book and pencil in the hands of the corpse or did you see them already in the hands of Ortyukov?
V.M. - I saw the pocket book when it was already in Ortyukov's hands. During the excavation, everyone did what Ortyukov had assigned. I noticed him when he was feverishly leafing through the pocket book's wet pages, since I was a meter away from him.
2. Did you see how Ortyukov took the pocket book and pencil from the hands of the deceased?
V.M. - No, I didn’t see it. Moreover, as soon as Ortyukov did not find any records, this pocket book ceased to interest me.
3. Was Ortyukov in the stream the entire time the three bodies were being dug up?
V.M. - Yes. Only we didn’t dig them up, but pulled them out from under the snow. This was enough for the investigator.
4. Did Ortyukov seize the pocket book right in the stream, while digging up the body, or already on the bank, where the body was taken from the ravine?
V.M. - I don’t know. Apparently, as soon as Ortyukov saw something in the corpse’s hand, he took "it".
5. The bodies were probably dug up one after another, starting with the one who lay closer to Dubinina (№1 in the photo)?
В.М. - Certainly. It was simply decided not to dig in the snow anymore. By whom? Ortyukov "looked around" not at Ivanov’s facial expressions. Doesn't mind - let's move on!
6. Do you remember which of the three dead guys (by numbering in the photo), had the pocket book in his hands?
В.М. - I just didn't know it. Ortyukov’s nervousness made me pay attention to him. I repeat, everyone was focused on their own business, so no one except me and Ortyukov paid attention to this episode. The pocket book was not included in any document! I don't know what happened to it!
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Rare interview with V.M. Askinadzi. July 2018
ANSWERS by Vladimir Mikhailovich Askinadzi, a former UPI search engine student, to questions prepared by Anton Pyhtin.
1. What was the first rumor among the people, among the students, when the hikers were found dead?
V.M. Hard to tell. It was clear that they were dead before they were found. There were enough facts for this. Firstly, Sogrin’s group returned from the hike and told how difficult the weather was in that area. Secondly, we counted the days when the Dyatlov group were without food (every evening we gathered near the sports club and someone reported that they had food left... for three days,... for one day,... three days without food,... a week without products, etc.). With a 20-day delay to the target date, no one had any doubt that the group had died. Mainly the leaders of groups who had returned from other expeditions gathered. And when the first bodies were discovered we were not surprised.
2. What theories were expressed by the searchers themselves at the scene of the tragedy and at the end of the search?
V.M. At that time, the missile version was stubbornly imposed and no one argued with it, since there was no other information - the corpses were taken to Ivdel, and then - nothing!!!
3. Is it true that the military did not allow searchers into some parts of the area? Which ones exactly?
V.M. I don't have such information. There were no restrictions while my shift was on the pass.
4. Are there people who know exactly what happened at the pass?
V.M. I'm sure there is! These are the ones who have access to the secret case file!
5. Do you think the guys were killed by other people? Is this a murder?
V.M. I am personally sure of this judging by the nature of the injuries. I had extensive correspondence with medical luminaries, I sent them the Vozrozhdenniy's autopsy reoprts and they replied that such injuries cannot be caused naturally (falling, etc.)! Another thing is the reasons for this crime!! I admit that a tragic mistake occurred and this is the main reason why, after 60 (!!!) years, the authorities are still afraid to declassify the case files.
6. - Was it really clear from the tracks that they belonged to members of the Dyatlov group?
- Was it possible to determine from the footprints that the guys were without shoes??
- Did the tracks lost their shape if, for example, you stepped on them?
- Were they frozen?
- Why weren't the footprints covered with snow in three weeks??
V.M. With the footprints everything is very complicated and we can not say much. This is the result of criminal negligence in organizing the search. Instead of qualified investigators being the first to work the tent, they let a cohort of unqualified students, without proper consultation on how to behave if the presence of evidence. So they destroyed a lot, trampling the tracks. Ivdel investigators appeared on the second day, and Sverdlovsk investigators on the third, when little remained of the original traces. Judging by the photographs, the traces were "columns" of weathering. But, I repeat, no one worked with the traces professionally.
7. Does the fact that Zina Kolmogorov was found closest to the tent mean that she was the last to die??
V.M. Very likely! I knew Zina quite well, we often went on weekend hikes and holidays together, and loved to celebrate the New Year "in the forest". Physically she was a very strong girl!
8. What can you tell us about Yuri Yudin?
V.M. I had little contact with him, so Yuri Kuntsevich can tell you more about him. Other than good things, I knew nothing about him. But mental trauma ruined his whole life - he was never able to start a family after the death of Lyuda.
9. How can you explain the fact that the guys had five cameras? How justified is this in the conditions of such a difficult hike, how practical? And so many diaries? Was it common to carry so many diaries on expeditions?
V.M. Nobody ever limited the number of photo equipment in the group. On the contrary, the more detailed the report on the trip saturated with photographs, the better. There was always a group diary. Another thing is who wrote in it. I was surprised that Igor allowed other participants to write in the group diary! The main purpose of the diary is to tell future group leaders who decide to follow "your" route, what to consider when preparing a hike, what to expect in difficult areas and landmarks in order to stop and reconnoiter the situation in advance. Therefore, the diary was always kept by the leader! He alone knew what to pay attention to!
10. What can you say about such finds as a soldier’s winding, Zolotarev’s notebook, the camera without film?
Vladimir Mihaylovich did not answer this question.
You can discuss this topic on Dyatlov Pass Forum.