I'm sorry to address you, but I'm fulfilling my father's request. True, very late. He greatly appreciated you as a deeply decent and principled person who can move the case of the investigation into the murder of the Dyatlov group from a dead center. Unfortunately, last summer, my father was imprisoned on a trumped-up charge of malfeasance, and all the information stored in electronic form - copies of cases, audio recordings and testimonies of witnesses that he had been collecting for almost two years (and not only in this case) was confiscated by the prosecutor's office and naturally, it was not possible to get it back, although the case was closed ("lack of corpus delicti"). He asked me to send you all that was left, and this is not much - letters to Lorelain, and his opus on the Forum. I do. In conclusion: my father said that the murder was connected with a man-made factor and happened as he described - the tourists were "froze to death". Rocket version. And there is also a link with Zolotaryov's past. I did not get into the details, and he did not like to talk about his work. Forty days have passed since the day of his death: Doctor of Medical Sciences and Candidate of Biological Sciences, a graduate of the Leningrad Medical Academy Andrey Yuryevich Deev died in a car accident ... Farewell.
Are you okay? Where did you go from the Forum? Navig's initiative, of course, is good, but naive. It won't lead to anything. Deputies of any level will not get involved with this. And it's because of the publicity. And at the local level. And those who don't know will learn. If you really want to initiate an official reopening of the investigation, then take the risk of turning to Karaulov, I think he will help, at least with advice. "Top Secret" has already been linked with this case, with a known result. Zero. About posthumous photographs and printing. It's up to TAU to show them or or not. And the opinion of relatives is also not worth it. It's not pretty. And so much nonsense and vulgarity around this case. About the photos and the tent. I told you that there are photographs in the case that were not published. But there are no last frames from the films. And there are missing films. That's all. About the investigation. There are many sources. And the party archives, and the archives of the Moscow Region and Military District, and the archives of civil aviation, and even, oddly enough, the economic archives (data were received on the delivery and distribution of fuel in the region - how was this preserved?), and data on geological exploration personnel, and address books... Yes, a lot of things ... Good luck! Keep up the good work!
And very good, that all is good. There are many interesting places in our country and abroad. I haven’t been to Krasnouralsk… I’ve just come back from the epidemic myself. For work. Well, people live! You can read about Dubinina's glasses in the list of things from Matveeva in the 10th chapter. They were identified by Yudin and are in a case. That is, they were broken a long time ago - before the tragedy, and not during. About the linear and abreast formations. These are military terms. A chain is when in a row. Well, like in the cinema or theater - a series. 3 and 5 each. They walked approximately side by side (abreast) in groups of 3 and 5 people, but, according to testimonies, the groups were not "fixed", that is, no one was holding anyone. In the case files is said "traces converged and diverged". The line is when in the back of the head to each other. Although the military is a terribly complicated thing. The team "stand in one line!" means that everyone should stand side by side with each other... And to go - "to the back of the head"... And a group of military men marching in formation to the back of the head is called a "column"... It's hard in the army! But the "attack with a chain" is just a system similar to that described in the case - that is, an attack with soldiers in a row (abreast). And I already wrote about psychosis in one of the messages. It's just that the respondent probably didn't read this far. But still apparently wrote. Maybe it will be useful to someone... Are you writing? Any questions?
There are no photographs of the stove, there is evidence that the stove was not cubic, but acylindrical, that is, it was made from a bucket. It was attached to the exit post and the chimney exited through the door. Witnesses (two) state that the stove was NOT USED, as it was FILLED WITH WOOD. I don’t know how far the design idea has stepped since 1959, but I saw two similar stoves in the 60s. The loading was carried out from above, the smoke came out through a folding pipe, which (so as not to burn the tent) went out through a hole insulated not with a piece of metal (it conducts heat well and burns through the fabric no worse than a pipe), but with a piece of slate in one case, and a piece of asbestos in another. After the examination, there was an attempt to return the tent to the UPI sports club, but no one volunteered (did not take it) and it was destroyed. There is an act. The examination of the sections is genuine, there are references to acts addressed to Moscow. That is, the number of "fresh" sections is three - and their characteristics correspond (according to the acts) to reality. The cuts were made from the inside, there are traces of notches, next to the perforating cuts, going in the same directions as the cuts. It seems that the incisions were made methodically, with several attempts, and the knife was first stuck in, the fabric gave in, and then the incision was made. As for which knife was used, it would be possible to determine this only when these knives are presented for comparison. And this was not done. And one more thing: part of the the fabric of the tent was cut out and attached to the material evidence (radiological examination); one of the missing sheets of the case - an act on this episode - was withdrawn because no data on this examination was received.
I already wrote about the items in the tent. There were no heaps of felt boots. There were 7 pairs and judging by the size 1 women's pair the rest for men. They lay against the wall, not on the blankets. About the thickness of the snow. Uneven. The northern (fallen) side of the tent was covered with snow, the depth of which was estimated at 60-70 cm. The southern side was not covered. Some things (Dyatlov's jacket at the entrance to the tent) were generally only powdered with snow. The total thickness of the snow cover at the place where the tent was set up was estimated only in spring, and ranged from 1.5 to 3.2 (!) meters.
As for why the incisions were made. No one knows, only speculation. It is physically impossible to get out through 2 of the 3 cuts. There is a conjecture that the slope was observed through these cuts. The generally accepted timing is incorrect. All events did not take place in the dark. Opinions differ that then the moon was shining, or morning had already come. Nobody knows exactly. But most of the opinions that it was the morning of Feb 2. The Moon that night ascended at about 11:30 pm and was in 3/4 phase. The sky in Ivdel was cloudy, but there was no wind. This is all...
- 2 -
Afterthought. There is a discussion on timing. According to the autopsy, the time of death was about - 03-04.00, that is, it was night. But. This is if you stick LITERARY to the sources! And. Purposeful activity in the dark is impossible. But. As I already wrote, I did not see the entire KGB case, but someone who saw first hand slyly hinted that it happened during the day. Witnesses (2 people) - say the same thing. It was LIGHT! 46 years is a long time...
Sorry for not replying sooner - a lot of work. Bottom line I took up shifts in the hospital which couldn't make and had to swap, now worked my shifts. A day after a day - it's hard, I want to sleep like a fluff.
Answers: I actually answered already some of them in the discussion - "Thesis", again:
- knives. According to the inventory of items, when examining the clothes, three industrial-made folding knives of the hunting type were found, not registered, but freely sold. Two of them had openers (for bottles and cans - ed. note). They were found in the POCKETS of Thibeaux, Slobodin, and Dyatlov. Shu (member of the Russian forum - ed. note) put forward the idea that only Thibeaux had pockets on his pants, and therefore he was used as a kind of bag... It's a shame and stupid! A large and well-made knife was found next to (but not in the pocket of) Thibeaux-Brignolle. It was handicraft made from a file and had a wooden (not "wrapped around", as in criminal knives) handle. But the "ebonite sheath" is not from it... The only working knife in the group belonged to Krivonischenko and it was found on him.
- cedar branches. The thick ones were notched and then broken. The think ones were just broken. The branches found on the flooring (in the "den" - ed.) were fir trunks and cut down ... Think! And:
- "flooring". We are talking about laying branches for insulation, only conifers were used and branches of small fir trees and spruce.
- cut clothes. Sheared off dead but not stiff bodies. It was cut off in large fragments e.g. a sleeve, a trouser leg. Cut in even cuts. What do you make of it. The photographs of the bodies near the cedar show that the arms are bent. If in this position you cut the sleeve of a stiff body, you won't be able to get it off. (If the clothes were cut and taken the arms had to be bent back the way they were found. Why would anyone do this? - ed. note)
- "screen". And this is an attempt to "pick up" a synonym. At a height of about 5.5 meters there was a kind of "window" in the branches of the cedar in the direction of the slope. And it was interpreted as "window" by almost all the witnesses. And it turned out that this "window" was called a "screen for viewing".
Regarding the determination of the time of death. Time is determined by many signs, but in the cold, rigor mortis competes with freezing ("cold denaturation") of the protein. So the coroner assessed the contents of the intestine. And when the watches stopped... The remains of food were identified, they were already "at the exit" from the small intestine, that is, they were almost completely digested. And this UNDER NORMAL conditions requires a minimum of 6 hours. The food was determined as bread and meat (loin). They all ate, but not very much judging by the weight. Everyone's stomachs were empty. Bladders were almost empty. This suggests that before they died, they either urinated or drank very little. This is somewhat strange, because coldness is due to "centralization of blood circulation" - after all, blood leaves the skin - it's cold there - into the larger vessels. This means that blood pressure must rise. To avoid this, the body begins to remove excess, from its point of view, water, through the kidneys - urine is obtained and the pressure drops. And the blood gets thicker. And urine accumulates in the bladder. This is called cold diuresis. And why is it strange - the longer a person is in the cold - the more urine is gathered. And they didn't have much (the autopsy reports contradict this - ed. note). Therefore, the time estimate must be shorter. Good luck!
Logged in the Forum, read it. Well, interesting. A quote came to mind, after reading the opinion of the Dear "firestarter") regarding the groups. The quote is: "I go, shake my head ... they are like children! They have eyes, but don't see, don’t understand... How are they even alive in the taiga? They will perish soon!" These words belong to the unforgettable Dersu Uzala, a gold hunter from the novels of the famous military topographer Arseniev... Mountain hikes, forest hikes... All the same! He HIMSELF LEAD groups to the same area! In winter! Diaries!!! Both panickers and cowards... It's a shame! They are VERY EXPERIENCED HIKERS AND GOOD PEOPLE. It is written in the case files that the tent was set up on the slope of the eastern spur of the Kholat Syakhl, from there it was 300-400 meters to the cliff named by Chu (Russian forum member - ed. note)... Next season, if I am alive, I will venture to go and see it myself. Hard to believe.
I went again in the Forum and read everything that is discussed. There it is! Now you see why it's "hard to understand". It's hard to know, but to act "within". I will try to help a little, although no one asked me to ... About the "multidirectionality" of the two cases. The fact is that the investigations between the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the State Security Service (KGB - ed. note) did not intersect. KGB initially investigated a different version. They didn’t even investigate, but proved. And not a version, but a fact. I mentioned that the death of the group became known before the search began. There was an unplanned leak of information. But even in this case, the solution proposed by the debaters about the disappearance of the group without a trace would only aggravate the situation. The search area is small, people talk. The route of the group is known and rigidly fixed by the terrain itself. If the group consisted of one or two people, the disappearance without a trace could be at least somehow explained, but not eleven. The question of the reconstruction of "death from natural causes" was not suggested by anyone, it was just the most natural solution. The goal was not to create a mystery and calm down the public opinion. Normative documents on the prerogatives of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the KGB are, of course, correct. But in our country, the laws on paper are different from the laws in life. Everything (including the government) does not as it is written, but what brings a gain. At that point, it was advantageous to attribute the incident to natural causes. And this, I must say, brilliantly succeeded. As you can see, there is a lot of fog, no explanations, and the logic is lost in delirium. Note that I said that 11 corpses are in the case, but I did not say that they were found at the Incident Site. Not at all! And I'll tell you where the leak came from! Pilot. You know him. He was very worried later ... And Uralus (member of the Russian forum - ed. note) is hinting at you, hinting! And the "Mansi trace" was not worked out by the Ministry of Internal Affairs! I also wrote about this ... Only the goal was different - not the participation of the Mansi in the murder ...
- 3 -
It is a pity that the traumatologist changed his mind to take part into the discussion. His conclusion was: "Collective psychosis! You are complicatedly out of your mind, where did you get this?" I understand him perfectly... See for yourself! What kind of district prosecutor and regional department of the State Security can we talk about when the Boss himself takes the case under his control! Moscow is pulling the strings. The district attorney is resting! The district State security goes along. The generals help him, directly and openly! Passive voice "this was discovered, that become known..." Yes, it became known! Shut up the prosecutor? Excuse me! Change the investigator? For God's sake! Well, right at the opening there is pressure - "write that they froze". And Thibeaux-Brignolle, Kolevatov, Slobodin, and Kolmogorova have skull injuries. Clearly - from hypothermia! And then - with a cliff welled up! Well, they would have put them all under a cliff. A flaw… Shu was not there to advise. Specialist in panic… dE(!)structor! About тех secrecy and "generals with stars". The generals are busy with other things. And I'm not even a Russian military man. Not even a medical officer. As the song goes: "I am a soldier of a country forgotten by God, I am a hero, from a romance unknown..." I am a Private Russian Army Guard. I am not registered with the military. My car is a jeep. Subject, in case of war, to conscription... The law is like this. And the military registration and enlistment office lost me... But I didn’t take the oath of Russia... And I won’t - I already swore allegiance to the Empire... But the deputy for the regime thinks that this is not so. His business. And it was not generals who helped me (us). Not their business. In addition to generals, rulers and other puppets, there are People. That's how! (And this is not megalomania, just such a position). Do not despair!
Here is the unsolicited letter. Where did you disappear? Do you need help? In regards to the dogs. Dogs from Ivdellag belonged to the breed of service-search dogs and did not differ in any way from the same service-search dogs from somewhere else. There are no rescue dogs in the Empire (and even now in This Country). Do not "train" dogs to search for "live" and "non-living"! Dogs are trained to search for OBJECTS by SMELL. As the Wise Navigator (member of the Russian forum - ed. note) rightly noted, dogs have brains. It's not a machine, but a sentient being (often more intelligent than humans - I've had three dogs and any Real Dog owner will tell you the same). It is natural for dogs to search by smell. The "standard" of smell is the tent and the contents. The dog of the service-search breed does not care who the wanted person is by social status - a convict or a free person so far. She also does not care what kind of object they are forced to look for - a knife, a gun or a corpse. There is a standard of smell - she is looking for a similar one. In particular, one of my dogs, Rottweiler Butch, was digging up mice in the forest from under a meter layer of snow! Besides, after a week-long ski march and campfire songs, a hiker smells worse than a barracks prisoner. The convicts don't take care of themselves. Those who do not wash their feet at least once a day are called "devils" in the "zone" are considered people of a "lower" category and used in various "dirty" jobs. Three weeks before the start of the first search operation is a short time. According to weather reports for the region, from Feb 5 to Feb 15 there was a light snowfalls, which gave about 25 cm of snow in Ivdel. The tent inspection protocols mention 70 cm of snow, which partially covered the tent... Here you go! And, yes, there was no thaw, that is, the snow was loose and no crust formed, that is, the smells were not blocked by ice. It was a dog that found Kolmogorova!
About the decomposition. I won't quote autopsy reports. Your information is enough. There WAS decomposition. The case files mention "bath skin". The corpses were under a layer of snow near the stream, and the stream does not freeze even in winter, it continues to flow under a layer of ice, and, naturally, the temperature under the snow near the stream is higher than in an open place, so there are decomposition processes in conditions of high humidity. Remember the reaction of Dubinina's father! He asked to open the coffin... And the tongue? Here is the scent for you.
The Mansi. I already wrote about the trouser leg that Kurikov found. On the snow. And the second trouser leg is wrapped around Lyuda's leg. Under the snow. Information! About the Mansi hunter. I wrote that the "Mansi trace" is not reflected in the case of the Ministry of Internal Affairs. But Mansi was interrogated and tortured. Is it really not clear who!
The corpses in the stream and near the cedar were not touched NOT because they were badly decomposed. The Creator took care everything to turn to dust. Bears (and, by the way, dogs!) love meat "with a smell". But nobody touched the bodies. There are NO animals in this zone in winter. They have nothing to do in the mountains. None of the animals climbs to the peaks and to the border of the forest. There is nothing to eat.
About the hunter. This is not a fisherman - but read Astafiev - "The Tale of the White Mountains"! Here there - the technology of fishing for junk is described. This is not a game hunter - see the remark about animals above. And see the map. The place where the traces of the hunter led was the junction of the ridges. Wherever you go, you will get to the pass. "Hunter" in the treeless zone! Who did he want to get there? Question! But I suggested we talk about it before!
And the photos (links) are great! Here you have the steepness of the slope, and "crashes"! I sincerely rejoiced!
- 4 -
To begin with, I will send you the most mysterious and exclusive material. I sent it to some other members of the forum, but no one really put it in a context. Me neither. It fundamentally contradicts almost all versions. The fact is that I have a story written down from memory by a man who was at the pass a few days after the death of the Dyatlov group. The conversation was in the 1989 year. The most annoying thing is that the connection with him is lost. I only know that he now lives in some village in the Krasnodar Territory. Retired. This is a man who has seen a lot in his lifetime, but this case is absolutely special for him. Actually there is not much information. Once we talked like this, about everything, about life. And here's what he told me.
In 1959 he participated in a geological exploration expedition. In the winter, they "removed markers". I don't know what that means. In mid-January they were sent to the Lozva valley. The base camp was located five kilometers east of the foot of Mt Otorten. More precisely, from the border of the forest. Somewhere on February 4-5, the three of them went to the foot of Mount Kholatchakhl (so he said), mark 1096. Not far from the border of the forest, they saw people lying. They came closer. Five corpses lay side by side (precisely five). Without outerwear. What struck me was the color of the skin. He found it difficult to compare. He pointed to the curtain. Orange color with a copper tint. There were many tracks around. They returned to base camp. They decided to report on the radio. They were told that they were aware and that action was being taken. Instructions - don't stick your nose. They decided to stick their noses in anyway and returned back. And they were already waiting. Right at the edge of the forest. Strict guys. Everyone was escorted back to base. Interrogated, etc. They promised to put them in the gulag if they turn up again. Well, and a lot more. A non-disclosure was taken from all (geologist - ed. note) party members. The party was under escort for about two weeks. As the markers were removed, they were immediately sent away from the area. Then for a whole year they held a "rendezvous" with the authorities of the State Security Service. Interrogations, reconciliations. In the end, they were reminded of the responsibility for non-disclosure and no longer bothered. For many years he was afraid of being taken away. Therefore, he was silent. Changed jobs many times. And now he does not like to talk about it. A have this clear picture in memory:
When they went to the place for the second time, right when they came out of the forest, they noticed not far in the distance the following scene - on the slope four people held a device, like a stretcher, only larger, two more people put snow with shovels, and below it pours like through a sieve. And the whole structure is slowly moving down the slope towards the forest. There were no more corpses in the old place. And then - "Stop! Don't move! Hands up!" etc.
He didn't see the tent. Or glowing spheres. There were air planes, but he didn't know whose. The fact that there were nine people was also not known. He saw five. Doesn't believe in an avalanche. Didn't see any rocket. He knows that the last member of that (geological - ed. note) expedition besides him died back in the 80s. Before this our conversation, he did not know anything about the Dyatlov group.
It's no coincidence that I'm so clinging to the version of murder. There have been a number of events here recently that give food for thought. I've been advised to be careful writing in this thread. On the forum, besides, there is definitely a provocateur leading the discussion to implausible versions. I do not know why the case of the Dyatlov group causes such a reaction. This is all for now. If you are interested I can write more.
Counter question (yes/no): Is your work related to closed cities?
I ask you not to discuss my materials in an open forum, write me an email instead.
Thank you very much for your letter! To your questions - NO, I myself work in an open city, but still in a closed institution. Monday through Friday, expert. Two days a week, in order not to lose practical skills, I am on duty at a 2,000-bed clinic. I am "doctor-therapist for providing emergency care" (I also have the certificates of a neurologist and a cardiologist). He is on duty 24 hours a day - on Thursdays at 3 pm, and on Saturdays from 9 am - and until 9 am ... I used to work as a doctor in the ER, for a long time. Afghan - six months, Airborne Forces, tanker (Self-propelled artillery).
But - to your letter. The most interesting thing is that I have already read this story somewhere. I just can't find the source - a lot of material. But one of the common components - at least three independent (that is, having no connection with each other in time and space) witnesses noted the unusual coloring of the skin of the bodies. First literature, in conclusion - the answer. However, it is interesting that some witnesses who were reliably present at the scene of the incident did not pay any attention to this. Moreover, from printed sources, it is not clear to you which bodies HAVE this coloration. Witnesses spoke about the color of the examination and autopsies of the LAST four. In Gushchina, it seems to me to be a "cover" - they write that the skin is tinted for all. But, according to the records of the inspection of the scene of the incident - chapter 15 at Matveeva, for example, no one from the "first five" who were found on the spot paid attention to this clearly striking feature!
Therefore, considering these documents, we allow that:
Everyone had color. In this case, it was determined, most likely, by chemical influence. Versions about rocket explosions often featured nitric acid, which was actually used as a fuel component in early versions of rockets (as an oxidizing agent). But already in 1933 (!) The Germans, when developing an engine for the V-2, abandoned the use and replaced it with liquid oxygen. The reason is the low "calorific value" and, consequently, the power of the engine. However, in 1943-44, when developing anti-aircraft missiles, German engineers returned to using nitric acid engines. The rocket was called "Wasserfall"; the engine ran on two components - Vizol (vinyl isobutyl alcohol) and Salbay (98% nitric acid). The developments went into series, but were not widely used. It is no secret that after the war, we and the Americans developed exclusively German rocket technologies as "starter" versions and no longer followed the "beaten paths". Many debaters talked about "red smoke" ("fox tail"), which is the product of the decomposition of HNO3 into anhydride NO2 and H2O - water. But, anhydride does not stain the skin yellow ... And ironically, nitric acid itself stains the protein solution, and therefore the skin - yellow ... This reaction is called "qualitative" in chemistry and was used before the introduction of spectrophotometry in forensics to prove the presence of a protein in the substrate. This color has a shade of pale yellow, I don’t know if it will turn out: in the presence of ammonia or ammonium salts, this color turns into bright orange. This reaction is called xantoprotein test. Here's to you ... About rocket fuels. At the end of the war, the Germans (well, Soviets later) reached the point of using very efficient and calorific fuels, which are still in use today. These are methyl and dimethyl hydrazines.
The literature describes two components "Z-Stoff" and "T-Stoff". Initially, the phrase "T-Stoff" meant an oxidizing agent in general and was concentrated hydrogen peroxide. This component, together with Z-Stoff fuel, was used as fuel on Me-163 rocket planes. "Z-Stoff", according to some sources, was a nitrogen-containing organic compound (the formula is "closed" so far). It is written in the literature that this is a solution of potassium permanganate (potassium permanganate) ... The aircraft's engines worked for about 5 minutes, but at the same time they had a fabulous thrust of 1750 kg (16,670 hp), and allowed to develop a speed of 1004 km/h - at maximum and 955 km/h in operation. The collapse of Nazi Germany prevented further progress, but this does not mean that progress has stopped. In our developments, hydrazine engines are still used ... Unfortunately, the components turned out to be extremely aggressive. Here is a fragment of the memoirs of a witness of the Me-163 Komet disaster, Mano Ziegler:
"The next flight was to be made by the pilot Yozhi. it started as usual, but during the launch, the landing gear separated early, although the aircraft did not pick up the proper speed and rushed too low above the ground ... The landing gear fell down and, rebounding from the concrete strip, hit the aircraft fuselage from below. The impact damaged the fuel supply line. Yozhi desperately rushed up, trying to somehow make an emergency landing. However, the plane caught the barrel of one of the anti-aircraft guns that stood on the edge of the runway, rolled over and, plowed a long furrow, stopped. Since it happened in front of the airfield personnel, the fire brigades and orderlies almost immediately ended up at the plane. Alas, the pilot no longer needed help. The fuel that penetrated into the cabin almost completely dissolved the human body. Even a special suit, specially designed to protect pilots, did not help."
These memories are reproduced according to the book by A. Pervushin "Hitler's Astronauts" EKSMO-Yauza 2004.
From this excerpt it is clear that if one of the fuel components got into the air, little would be left of clothes and skin. This one of the progressive fuels was used on LONG-range missiles. By the way, I did not mention that both components often ignited spontaneously in air in combination with themselves ...
But on the ZURS ("anti-aircraft guided missile") of the 195_ model (which, according to Shu, the Dyatlov group were mortally afraid of), kerosene or alcohol was used. Depending on modification. And instead of an oxidizing agent - hydrogen peroxide or oxygen (for mobile installations - peroxide). These substances do not color the skin. The flight range of the ZURS is 30-40 km and it consumes fuel in the first 1.5 minutes of flight ... If it does not hit the target, then it is forcibly blown up by the ground team (so that it does not kill its own), even in the case of training shooting. It was such an order of the MO. In addition, any of the components that get on the mucous membrane of the eye causes a chemical burn (protein denaturation), which is manifested by clouding of the cornea (on a corpse) and blindness (in the living).
About the sodium comet. Sodium itself, upon contact with the skin, causes an ordinary burn, and not staining, and its salts are not chemically aggressive (table salt), and alkali is dangerous only in concentrated form...
About U-2. The version officially voiced in recent years about Powers' plane says that this plane was shot down by ACCIDENT...
The skin was dyed only on the last four. This can be explained by the fact that a long stay in the water (stream) caused the penetration of protozoan algae cells into the swollen epithelium, which retain the ability to grow even at a temperature close to zero. In water and gloomy lighting (under snow) they have a blue-green color, but as soon as they get into the air and light, the blue-green pigment (cytochrome-chlorophyll-like substance) is reduced and turns into brown. Well, naturally, I understand that this fact, with a broad discussion, will be accepted "with hostility", but such skin color changes do occur during drowning and are described in forensic medicine manuals and atlases as an OPTION.
BUT: no documentary evidence!!! THE SKIN OF THE BODIES DID NOT HAVE ANY UNUSUAL COLOR. In the "last four", Dubinina and Kolevatov had a greenish-blue (very low-intensity) color, characteristic of the color of the decomposition of sulfur compounds (tissue protein) in water (stream)...
But, nevertheless, the testimony of your witness can be trustworthy, albeit with reservations. Why? Because there is no "interest" in the fact and the number of bodies found IMMEDIATELY is recorded correctly.
A variant with a snow slab (but not an avalanche!), which crushed and buried (so to speak) the "last four". In the event that the military were involved in the case, then from instant intervention the bodies could have been posed like that... But it is most likely that this was the case: in the spring, when the snow melts, it "flows" from the slope; after all, snow at a temperature close to "zero" is like a liquid (imagine a metal ready to melt just about: it is VERY plastic and fluid).
- 6 -
Considerations. There are two "catches" in this witness's account. But first some comments:
"..."removed markers". I have no idea what that means…"
"Markers" is the same as "storage". These are warehouses that contain expeditionary tools, equipment, unused samples and some things. Oddly enough, for reasons of cost savings, "markers" are carried out in winter - in summer it is very difficult to fit equipment to some places; in winter, it becomes possible to get close to the markers along winter roads, frozen swamps and rivers. But - see below.
"... In mid-January they were sent to the Lozva valley. The base camp was located five kilometers east of the foot of Mt Otorten. More precisely - from the border of the forest. Somewhere on February 4-5, the three of us went to the foot of Mt Kholat Syakhl (so he said), marker 1096..."
Most often, these markers (according to climatic conditions) are removed and set, respectively, at the end or beginning of the season (or in October-November or February-March). This information can be (I won’t say - easy) to check, since most often, information about the drop off of such groups is not secret: it is known to the geologists who worked in the area of the markers, transport workers at the places where these "markers" were collected, local residents, etc.
I delayed the response to the letter and contacted a person who has access to documents on the work of exploration teams in the Union (unfortunately, only them, because there are topographers and biologists and epidemiologists). However, he did not delve into the archives for a short time and, having shown me the documents, said that in the summer of 1958 reconnaissance in the north of the Sverdlovsk region was NOT carried out. He himself, as it turned out, was interested in this matter. He was very happy to talk with a like-minded person. Interesting information - not only I was interested in the fact of geological developments, there were such requests twice in the last 3 years. One of them is the UPI people. A - two groups worked in the Sosva river basin (east of the Ural Range). they were looking for nickel and did not find it.
The region of interest to us was surveyed in 1952-56 (repeatedly) and recognized as unpromising in geological terms. But, nevertheless, I do not discount the fact that the documentation was also "cleaned up". There are two possibilities for independent verification of the facts of exploration work, but this is a long one. We must write. And I will.
Lyrical digression, for reference, has nothing to do with the letter, but since we are talking about geology... A fact that explains the appearance of "craters" in the area of the incident. At least some of them are pits dug by amateur prospectors in search of gold. Amateur prospecting has always been popular in the Ural region. They are looking for gold, agates, malachite, garnets (not combat, but stones - I have an excellent specimen weighing about 25 grams! - it is soldered into granite, and therefore the exact weight is not known. Found on the Taganay ridge). To the north of Otorten, there is a "nesting" occurrence of golden sand, but rarely and not much. Despite the abundance of quartz, in the Manpupuner zone, no one found native gold. Geomorphologically, the Otorten region is also interesting in that there are three magnetic anomalies there, however, they are weak and ("in everyday life") have little effect on the compass readings. One of them is in the upper reaches of the Auspiya, with a "western" declination. The arrays of ferromagnets that cause them (anomalies) have no industrial value - low power. About radioactivity. The Ural Range is made up of granites. Granites have an increased, in comparison with basalt rocks, radioactive background. Often the same as for gold, "nested" deposits of active rocks (often with mica inclusions). The activity is small, but "popularly" noted: in the Southern Urals there is the peak of Yamantau ("bad" - yaman, "tau" - mountain). The area is closed to hikers (and I was there! - out of harm). Officially, this is a reserve, but in reality, in Soviet times, uranium deposits (!) Suitable for industrial development were discovered there. But the region of Mt Yurma (in translation - "don't go") - is famous for deposits of copper ore and the accompanying selenium; copper and selenium salts cause genetic changes (malformations in children). In the area of the last mountain is the notorious city of Karabash with a copper smelter.
About topographic maps. Allegedly they're hard to get. Lies. It was always possible, if not the original, then "blue". In one of the photos of the Dyatlov group, one of the GENUINE topcards is clearly visible. End of lyrical digression.
"... Without outerwear. What struck me was the color of the skin. He found it difficult to compare. He pointed to the curtain. Orange color with a copper tint. There are many traces around ... "
Note №1. Why naked? Who took off their clothes? If someone undressed them and laid (traces), then why didn’t they SECURE the place?
"... For about two weeks, the party was under escort..."
Note №2. Immediately after the "communication session", they were IMMEDIATELY to be blocked and taken away, for two weeks there was no question to do any work. Here, at first glance, is all. Well:
"... adapted - like a stretcher, only large, two people put snow with shovels..."
This device could be used to sift snow to search for fragments, BUT can only work at temperatures below 15 degrees below zero. For loose snow only. The search for fragments of paramagnetic materials (alloys of magnesium, aluminum, etc.) using mine detectors in the 50s was technically impossible. Military mine detectors of that time "saw" iron objects and became the size of a plate at a depth of no more than 25 centimeters. The above is an observation, not criticism.
This story perfectly corresponds to the versions of the tent being moved, the "cleaning" and the unconfirmed version - the rocket one, rejected for discussion at the Forum (Russian forum - ed. note)... and the Forum members themselves - I was convinced of this by the example of my version - after all, no one read CAREFULLY. Well, it's my own fault - the style, maybe I chose the wrong one...
With sincere respect, always yours Andrey Doc, nicknamed Granddad.
I inform you that a response came back to my request regarding exploration groups. The answer is no - no groups worked in the region in the summer of 1958. Well, it's natural... (In book "1079" are published for the first time reports from exploration work carried in 1959 - ed. note)
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Nov 22, 2005 2 am
Thanks a lot! Coincidentally, my people found Lorelain and at the same time received a message from Uralus. Let me clarify: I am a medical expert who participated in the reconstruction of the causes of the death of the Dyatlov group. I left the Forum, partly because I know the cause of death of the guys for sure, because I worked with both cases: both the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the KGB. Unfortunately, I am bound by the condition: not to disclose the contents of the KGB case, and therefore all my sources would be unfounded. Lorelain had a hard time: after all, I gave FACTS without EVIDENCE. Believe me, this is a serious matter, many people died. Therefore, my version is one attempt to fit the facts under the most logical shell. And everything that Lorelain said is true, and there will be no comments, these are the conditions. These conditions were not set by me. And I am forced to work within the framework of the case of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, that is, on the basis of data made public. But they are (partially!) enough. To explain the murder, I am sending you a compilation of versions of the TAU Forum participants. At the end of it is a map of the tent site. She was REALLY standing there. And the calculations only confirm this. For the above reasons, I will not give all the rest of the information. I already tried it with Lorelain. I'm too old for all this.
Nov 22, 2005 3 pm
This is my last letter with comments.
1. This version of mine is fully prepared for publication, according to the conditions described earlier. That is - I do not touch on classified information, I do not get into the events BEFORE and I do not touch the events AFTER, and I do not describe the events AROUND. Events DURING the incident are described as accurately as possible. About the calculations of the place for setting up the tent - you can publish them, or not - at your discretion - the site is yours. I don’t touch on other versions, which is up to me - then if I sent something to someone, then this is open information, true information (not speculation), and you can do anything with it, including publishing it.
2. Is that right, my initiative is only technical work, and did you get the consent of the other publishers?
3. I will not send documents and details about myself and the place of service - the organization is closed. The investigation was conducted privately by a group of people at the request of another group of people in 2004. The purpose of the restoration is the same as yours - complete information on the case.
4. About publicity - there are fears that in 2009 the case will not be fully opened. Customers of the investigation have all the information on the case right now. To publish or not is THEIR business, but until 2009 the conditions of secrecy imposed by the authorities will be respected. According to the terms, I even received permission to enter the Forum (Russian forum - ed. note)and correspond with you from them.
5. And these are the facts...
6. I write that I do not disclose ALL the reasons for the conditions. They don't contradict. Murder, it is murder.
7. The easiest way is to wait until 2009, but there is an easier way - to duplicate the investigations of our group - to walk around and dig through the archives of the prosecutor's office, the Ministry of Internal Affairs, economic organizations, civilian and military air groups, regional and Moscow party archives, documentation of military districts, the Red Army, the NKVD, geological exploration, meteorological services, trade unions, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, etc. Unfortunately, this requires permissions and contacts with people working in these structures, but this can be overcome. Note: it took us a little over a year. But these documents are not available on the Internet. And the deputies will not dig this case - they will not be allowed to. But there are very few witnesses left in the case, and even they keep quiet, and they are unlikely to tell strangers anything. In this case, the epigraph to Matveeva's story is very indicative. Well, I can prove it with documents, of course, but I won’t - I’m not the owner of all the information, and the conditions are not mine. But if someone suddenly comes out in the media now with complete information - this is fantastic. The most recent disappearance of a witness in this case was last year. Anyway. Thanks again, sorry to bother you, I won't bother you anymore.
Dec 1, 2005 3 am
Sorry for not writing right away, the end of the month, full of work - reports, duty, then, yes, I talked with my employers - they are categorically against transferring a full copy of the Criminal case to the Forum participants. In general, they are somewhere right. As Lorelain found out, there really isn't much new in the MVD case. Thus, the state of the place where the tent was set up, the state of the tent, the protocols for the inspection of the Incident Site are more fully covered. To everything known to everyone from publications, this adds little that is new. To your question. Briefly: search activities of the second wave: took place from Apr 30 (gathering of the group in Ivdel) to May 8, 1959. The bodies for autopsy were delivered by helicopter (crew commander V.I. Gatezhenko in aircraft of the Ural Geological Exploration Department, northern branch, Mi-4) in the evening of May 8. The group moved to the scene on May 5. Composition of the group: 15 soldiers of the engineer-sapper battalion (Sverdlovsk), 2 officers (sapper commander and communications officer), escort squad (12 people and a dog handler with a dog) from Ivdellag, inspector of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, radio operator. On Mar 3, these people were joined by Ortyukov (representative of the UPI), and three local residents (among them was Kurikov) and Sulman, as well as a junior investigator of the prosecutor's office (Ivanov). The transportation was carried out by helicopter (see above). On May 3 and 4 search activities (excavations) were carried out at the site of the tent and near the cedar, as well as combing the slope. The remains of a shirt, 2 woolen socks and a handkerchief were found near the cedar. At the place of installation of the tent were found textolite home-made sheath and a spoon. On the evening of May 4, traces of logging were found in the direction of the SOUTH-WEST from the cedar, deep into the forest (on the map approximately to point 611). A cut trunk of a birch was found 30 meters from the cedar. Further, when viewed at 50 meters from the cedar, there were several cut stumps from fir trees and cedars. On the morning of May 5, a belt from a sweater, half of a women's sweater and half of sports (ski) trousers were found at the stump site. Considering that the stumps were located on the bank of a shallow ravine, excavations were carried out on an area of 30 square meters from the stumps to the slope of the ravine and along the stream (partially free of snow and ice).
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At about 7 pm on the bank of the stream, partly in the water (upper half of the body), a male corpse was found, head along the stream. Wearing: gray sweater, velvet undershirt, T-shirt, sweatpants, ski pants, and 2 pairs of woolen socks. Later identified as Kolevatov. The examination said "bath" skin, pale, with a greenish tint, the right half of the face (he lay on it) is deformed, with signs of decomposition. In the next two days, excavations continued on May 7. A flooring made of spruce trunks was found described in chapter 54 by Matveeva. At a distance of 6 meters from the flooring, in a stream, head against the current was the body of Dubinina. Wearing: balaclava, yellow T-shirt, black men's sweater, blue sweater, leggings, ski pants (with cut elastic bands), on one foot two pairs of socks - cotton and wool, on the other foot a cotton sock and wrapped around like a sock the second leg from previously found trousers. The face was lowered into the water, with traces of decomposition. On the bank of the stream, 7.5 meters from the flooring were found two corpses embracing each other. First wearing: black sweater, cotton shirt over it, sports T-shirt underneath, training pants, two pairs of ski pants, and 2 pairs of woolen socks, well, and a watch ... Identified as Thibeaux-Brignolle. The second wearing: ski cap, beige women's jacket with artificial fur, torn at the back, sleeveless sweater, flannel shirt, cotton undershirt, training trousers, underpants, shorts, cotton socks and three socks (it doesn't say on which foot) woolen. Identified as Zolotaryov. Next to them, a home-made knife was found, carved from a diamond-shaped file with a wooden handle. There is no complete list of those found during the second wave: there are no searches in the case of the Ministry of Internal Affairs. This is the gist from the autopsy and identification protocols. The clothes in which the last four bodies were found in the stream were not identified. The depth of the dug trench in the snow was estimated at 2-2.5 meters. And in his memoirs (not in the protocols), Ortyukov describes traces of a fire near the flooring. This is a personal interview. Phew! To the discussion at the Forum. I wrote about the causes of death. Death from craniocerebral INJURIES against the background of hypothermia in Slobodin, Kolevatov, Kolmogorova and Thibaut-Brignolle. From chest injuries in Zolotaryov and Dubinina. The other three simply died of hypothermia. Six (!) violent deaths and one (!) factor. But. The case didn’t start at the pass- But you’ll excuse me, I won’t write more on the CASE, otherwise, after all, it will turn out "unfounded", THANK YOU VERY MUCH for publishing. Credit goes to you.
Dec 1, 2005 4 pm
I forgot something... Gushchin was not allowed to see the attachments to the case (there was no access), but I had one. So, some of the documents and material evidence, including all the negatives from all the films, were sent to Moscow. And a photo of the tent (2 pieces) too. There are verbal descriptions of these pictures, but the place is not identified there, that is, it is not clear where these pictures were taken - either on the slope, or in the Auspiya valley. About the source. Here you will have the Case of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and read it. About declassification. After all, in 2009 only party archives will be declassified, and there is nothing interesting there. And here's the KGB case. There, this murder is only part of the overall picture, and this case is called differently, so, most likely, it will not be declassified. And before the public outcry - after all, not all cases of the State Security Service were made public, this was not enough! But the KGB was engaged not only in counterintelligence.
Dec 2, 2005 3 pm
About the access. And yet they (tolerances) are ... Nothing can be done, because the tapes, the testimony of two witnesses, part of the testimony (only one Akselrod is mentioned), the results of examinations of bioassays and histological sections, as well as the results of chemical and radiation examinations, as well as part items found at the scene - is being held in another case, and no one removed the seal from it. About investigators. It is not necessary to keep different protocols, because the results of the inspection, identification and seizure protocols can be SYNCHRONIZED and made in two copies. In my work, in controversial cases, this is exactly what happens. And copies of the acts are sent to interested parties. And what they do with these acts further is their business. Well, I read the last pages of the discussion more carefully. And I noticed that you also did not find confirmation of Thibeaux-Brignolle's shoes... That's right, of course... But, believe me, the matter is not limited to the Place of the Incident. Lorelain didn't pay attention to the things in the tent, whether she wrote about it or not. Maybe I will repeat myself: the blankets were spread out, not piled up. The one who describes them as a heap saw only the results of the inspection - they turned it over. About the stove. The design (in my opinion - I have seen modern stoves, and I myself do without a stove at all in winter trips - though I don’t go to the North - only in the region of the South Urals), the design is unsuccessful, since the cylinder is almost non-separable. But - to Reasons. The reasons are OUTSIDE the zone and are connected with Zolotaryоv's past (but not in the way you might think, this is not a criminal). This is not intrigue, but an impetus to a possible search. In the first letters to Lorelain, I said many times that I do not put pressure on her, and in this case on you - you can believe, you can check. Although there will be no references to some points of my messages, they can be confirmed by indirect data (as in the case of Thibeaux-Brignolle's shoes and the place where the tent was set up). This is a kind of tragedy (forgiveness me the metaphor), but knowing the result and not being able to confirm this knowledge, it is very difficult to discuss and prove anything...
Dec 9, 2005 5 pm
I read it, thank you! The timing is flawless. The development is perfect. I won’t send comments yet, and maybe I won’t at all. For your information: your timing is 99% true! But to the place where the tent is set up - Alt (forum member - ed. note) is more accurate... Come on! About the tattoo: This is not a criminal tattoo. Semyon did it himself. These are not words, these are abbreviations (such as the USSR, the CPSU). Beets are not beets, but an ace. The formulas are Semyon's friends (both died), and the meaning of the abbreviation is his military past. He is not a purebred Caucasian, he has nothing to do with Ichkeria. Tip: what did geologists do in the village of 2nd Northern in the winter? Have you read Astafiev's "Dream of the White Mountains"? There is a very reliable description of the method of hunting a fur-bearing animal in areas similar to our scene, so here it is: hunting. It is obviously not a promising hunting ground, check the map, this is a junction of ridges. There are no animals in the winter there, there is nothing to eat. This is indirectly confirmed by the fact that no one touched the corpses in the stream and near the cedar. And it's not the smell: the Creator is wise and turns everything to dust. Sure there was decomposition. The four bodies in the stream were in conditions favorable for decomposition: heat and moisture. The body of the unfortunate Lyuda suffered the most (remember her father's reaction!) Least of them all - Thibeaux-Brignolle and Zolotaryov. Hunter with dogs. Remember a few pages ago you were interested in their search characteristics. You are right that dogs have brains. Service dogs LOOK FOR EVERYTHING. Alive and/or dead. The dead are more willing: dogs (like bears) love meat with a smell (sorry for the hyperbole). If there is a standard of smell, the dog will find its owner, whether it is a person or an object. Especially a service dog. And it doesn’t matter where the dog comes from: from Sverdlovsk or from Ivdel. The standard was set for things from the tent. And in the search operation of the first wave, not only the dogs of Ivdellag took part, but also a hunting dog (Mansi Kurikov brought his dog).
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And one more thing. It might be interesting what kind of rescue team of hikers from Moscow participated in the search in the first wave? No one knew them... And didn't call... And my Rottweiler Buchka - God rest his soul - was a beautiful dog! - I dug up mice in the forest from under the snow from a depth of up to a meter in winter! What may seem strange: I wrote about this Lorelain. The events in the case are not relevant now, but... Naturally, the investigation of our group became known long ago. We have parity with the authorities (so to speak): they know that we know, but we will remain silent. And at the beginning of the year, under, say, suspicious circumstances, one of the members, a relative of one of the nine, dies. Well, we considered the situation as a violation of parity and went, so to speak, public. I registered in the Forum (the Russian forum - ed. note). Now the situation has been clarified. We continue parity, but you can't get back what has been done. I will continue consulting (within the framework of the above, according to the conditions, unfortunately). Or maybe I will return to the Forum - but this is unlikely, I don’t want to become like Chu (Russian forum member - ed. note)... I am not going to actively impose a point of view, the main thing is not to let the wave subside. You can’t make people who died innocently into fools! Time will show. Yes, I forget the time: photo of the tent. There is none, and there are no negatives (2 pieces, different cameras). And Gushchin does not either. There are in the KGB case. Good luck! Great theory!
Dec 9, 2005 6 pm
Another note: Zolotaryov was abroad. And the introduction was premeditated. But this does not apply to the tattoos.
Feb 5, 2006 4 am
2. About the tent. And ask the Forum lawyer: how does he get copiers of sheets of the case, isn't it bothering him? Signatures, numbering of sheets, photographs? Why is the scheme named Photo? In fact, 20% of the total roof area there were is missing! With even cuts across... And. A spoon, a soldier's scabbard, a canvas strap, socks and handkerchiefs were found, but there were no pieces of canvas. Where did they go? Okay, what about Lorelain?... Sorry again.
Feb 28, 2006 10 pm
I must say right away that relatives are unhappy that photographs of bodies are widely available. There was no talk about the TAU film - it is, so to speak, a limited edition. About the films. There are at least four of them. From the film of the last trip, frames were taken with views of the village of 2nd Northern and frames previously published (group photos of the guys), as well as one of the frames with a tent (this is where they were taken against the background). The rest of the shots of the trips, including where Dyatlov is photographed with Mansi, were made at a different time. I repeat once again - a frame that is interpreted by everyone as the last frame does not appear ANYWHERE. It is not in the case of the Ministry of Internal Affairs. And there are no negatives. The dark (in color - dark brown with a yellowish tint) skin color of the bodies under the cedar is explained by the fact that the surface areas of the skin in the cold (the microflora does not work in the cold and there is no decay) dehydrate and dry out. The surface layer of the skin (scales of the epidermis) are exfoliated. Under them is a layer that used to be (before death) a germ layer (Stratum Germinativum - ed. note), and the so-called shiny layer (Stratum Spinosum - ed. note). These layers are well supplied with blood and, despite the cessation of blood circulation, contain many blood elements (blood cells). This layer itself is red with a slight admixture of an orange tone. You could see it if a very thin layer of skin has already grown on the abrasion, for example. But blood cells, in turn, contain an iron-containing pigment (cytochrome) called hemoglobin. Iron ions color the substrate where they are located: at a low oxygen content - red, at a high oxygen content - red, at a low oxygen content and excess water - green, and at a very low oxygen content and excess water - in blue-green. This explains the color of the skin in the corpses that were in different conditions - in drowned people who spent a long time underwater is blue-green. In our case, there was a RED discoloration, which on a black and white film of the isopanchrome color standard is reproduced as black or deep gray. I draw your attention to the photo of the unfortunate Lyuda. It is in the film and the publisher lies ON THE SIDE! Rotate it at least 90 degrees.
I turn to your next letter.
Mar 1, 2006 2 pm
1. Dubinin, Krivonischenko, Kolevatov.
2. The film can be BOUGHT on the Olympus network.
3. Communication is unstable, four searchers are available.
4. Maslennikov's diary could not be obtained, but the album could be viewed from there information about other expeditions of the group. (Maslennikov's notebooks are now available - ed. note)
5. You can quote. This is not prohibited, but not required. At the same time, I can answer as needed and on the CASE to the questions asked. Participation in the Forum is somewhat tiring: some questions require detailed (and prompt) answers, and the dynamics of the discussion does not allow me to fully answer them. Actually, I wrote so long because there was no computer. You saw what happened. And they themselves, probably, felt it on their theory: there was practically no criticism (constructive). But all requests to send any materials will be rejected. I can only give advice. Thank you for the photo. Not everyone perceives it the same way. I think that if posthumous photographs of relatives, for example Uralus, were published, he would be offended. About private mailing - good. It was about identifying bodies. Published: Doroshenko (left, in the background) and Krivonischenko (right, near), Dyatlov before the excavations, Kolmogorova (a pit on the slope, two angles) and Dubinina (the photo corresponds to the description of Pechurkina).
More about the discoloration: in general, human skin has a yellowish tint (the color of collagen fibers). Similar products can be seen in the Buchenwald Museum. But, depending on the conditions (cause of death, conditions of storage of the corpses, time spent by corpses at the scene, local conditions - clothing and contact with the surface on which the corpse lies) varies. My comment - about the predominantly brown-yellow discoloration, it is typical to our SPECIFIC case. Thanks again. Good luck!
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Mar 2, 2006 3 pm
1. Unsolicited comment: Nikitin died of pneumonia according to the CERTIFICATE from the regional hospital attached to the documentation of the cemetery... Good luck!
Mar 3, 2006 4 pm
To the date of the beginning of the investigation, please pay attention to the latest messages of Nastya Lorelain about the date of the beginning of the investigation, the number of corpses at the scene, etc. I confess, my submission, but the initiative, although this is not an excuse. I wrote to her (and received no answer...) that the pilot was to blame for arousing the interest of relatives and stimulating search activities. He died later, but maybe this will help somehow. This is a fact, but no comments.
Apr 9, 2006 2 pm
2. A lawyer is good, but data recovery is comparable to a repetition of investigative actions. I'm not sure that he will be able to organize this investigation. Very little data. In addition, the witnesses who are alive are scattered throughout the country, and the archives (except for the CPSU) are dispersed. Maybe it makes sense to hire a private detective additionally? Expensive... Slobtsov is physically available, but refuses to cooperate with the Forum. Korotaev lives far from me, no phone. I had a contact with him two years ago. He believes that the rocket is to blame. In general, his testimony does not differ from those published, except that he knows more than he says. But - within the framework of the materials of the case of the Ministry of Internal Affairs. After all, he was removed from the case and did not have access to the documents at that time. I wrote to him, but received no answer. If he answers I'll let you know. By the way, you think in vain that, having familiarized yourself with the criminal case, you will receive any additional information. Almost none - you already know that some of the documents have been seized. In this case, Styopa is right - you can try to initiate an investigation, referring to this removal. But this is a legal matter. I'm afraid that the prosecutor's office may not agree with this. As an example: did photographs of bodies give you a lot of NEW information?
3. Lorelain didn't find out, but for some reason the relatives do not show concern (in any case, they did not show concern end of February). She has no official connections with TAU (only acquaintances) and is not a journalist, and not a writer, and not a relative of anyone from the Dyatlov group.
Apr 10, 2006 10 am
Thanks a lot! I wrote you an answer in the same tab, but I can't find it in the outbox. I may repeat myself. About the blanket: I already listed the things found near the cedar: this description is taken from the protocol of the inspection of the place where the corpses were found and the BLANKET does not appear there. There are: unidentified rags, a woman's handkerchief, a torn shirt, a piece of sweatpants. Clothes on corpses. But: the corpses were transported on BLANKETS. More about the identification of items. The protocol almost completely placed in Matveeva's book is final. Some of the things that Pechurkina writes about were later identified by relatives, BUT NOT ALL. This identification is not included in the protocols. This is according to relatives. Much more information is obtained from the searchers. But neither he nor the searchers noted the celestial phenomena during the search. In general, no evidence of these phenomena was received at the time of the incident. About the time of the incident (unfortunately, no comments - but, I think, this will be confirmed later, as in the case of the date and reason for the opening of the criminal case - this was also reliable information, but without comments) - day, Feb 1, 1959...
Apr 12, 2006 3 pm
What the...! You misunderstood! It was sarcastic. It was certainly NOT an avalanche. The mention of the supervision of the State Security just speaks against any force majeure (i.e. natural) cause of the disaster, even excludes almost all man-made causes, except for those related to state secrets... As for the avalanche. And what kind of mass of snow is this, which descended (hypothetically) from a slope less than 100 meters long, and did not affect the sticks stuck in the snow... There is nothing to even consider here. As for the hypothetical snow landslide in the ravine or anywhere. I tried to prove that the impact was POINTED, that is, the force that caused the injury acted SPECIFICALLY ON the points of injury! With any impact on the body of a force other than POINTED (be it a shock wave, or landslide) THERE WOULD BE common damage, primarily to the limbs. Also damage to internal organs associated with the GENERAL impact. And the damage would be HOMOGENEOUS and the same for everyone. Otherwise, it turns out that some suffered more, some less... Selectively acting avalanche?!
Apr 12, 2006 4 pm
This is not spam! I was just about to go home, but I returned and turned on... Damn narrow-mindedness! Here's what came into my head (it's obvious to me, but no one tried to object SO). There is no text at hand, but I think you remember the description from the diary: ... a red-hot stove is full of heat... There (in that passage) it is said that the tent was divided into male and female halves, and the girls slept away from where the stove was suspended. The stove was hung at the entrance to the tent - everyone could see it in the pictures. That is (against Akselrod's scenario) Lyuda COULD NOT SLEEP next to Thibeaux-Brignolle, and even more so next to Zolotaryov, a STRANGER to her! That is, the girls slept in the FURTHER part of the tent, where the stretch marks were torn off. And, therefore, when the tent collapsed, BOTH girls SHOULD have received the same (or comparable) injuries... That's all for now. Driving home.
Apr 19, 2006 3 pm
And she didn’t publish this information anywhere, the plant engineer talked to her. The depicted rocket really went into series from 1962 to this release - single copies for launch tests. According to this engineer and Nastya, of course, the prototype of this rocket with serial number 50 was tested in the period of time that interests us. The launches were carried out both from land-based installations and from the sea, the dates of launches and the trajectory of the flight are known. Later descriptions of the flight of balls by launch dates COINCIDE. As for the heptyl. It is a highly caustic substance capable of causing chemical burns in high concentrations. But, in the conditions of interest to us, this action cannot be expected, since in the case of a (hypothetical) fall of a rocket during a flight or fall, the remaining fuel always explodes (not volumetric, but concentrated).
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May 19, 2006 1 pm
Although, of course, for an adequate investigation of this case and the reconstruction of events, there is insufficient and not enough electronic investigation. This is generally understood by everyone, including you, I hope. One familiarization with the case of the prosecutor's office is not enough, and there are also few chances to resume an official investigation into this case. There are almost no real fresh facts in the materials of the prosecutor's investigation, but there are contradictions. So, for example, in the description of the scene in the ravine - there, in particular, there is no description of the clothes of the corpses and (according to the description) Thibeaux-Brignolle is not Kolevatov, but Zolotaryov. The reconstruction of clothes is reproduced based on the results of the description of the bodies, and even then there are some discrepancies, you will see them too. The Dubinins used to be skeptical about the activities carried out by the Forum, but now they are simply annoyed that the prosecutor's office has shown such activity. And Den (Russian forum member - ed. note) will share with you. In one of the letters I spoke about the number of skis and boots? Well, here's one for you, the so-called, seemingly unproven, fact. The Mansi. Now, finally, they paid attention to it! Mansi signs, by the way, are not relevant to this case, but the sleds are, and they were not Mansi. About the shoes. No one had shoes, including Thibeaux-Brignolle. And about the rocket. After all, I honestly warned you that the rocket is NOT related to the case, but is related to the HISTORY of the investigation. That is, in other words, this is one of the WORKED and REJECTED versions. It's just a POINT OF VIEW. But being developed - Nastya, for example. The dates of observation of the glowing spheres actually coincide with the dates of launches from mobile installations, but do not overlap with the date of the death of the guys, and I wrote about this in a discussion with Chu (Russian forum member - ed. note). Well, Vibr (Russian forum member - ed. note) answered you about the dates of launches from stationary installations. This is with regards to medium-range missiles. And there were mobile units. And launches from them were also carried out. And a lot of work has been done, all in vain. Rockets have nothing to do with it. PEOPLE! As for the avalanche version. I read it. It's hard to argue, but it's possible. The version is statistical. Well, yes, an avalanche is possible. Well, yes, there are avalanches on slight slopes. But! Even in high kinetic energy avalanches, the main CAUSE of death is NOT INJURY. Hypoxia. Suffocation. Injuries that are determined in those who have fallen into a kinetically active avalanche DO NOT DIFFER IN ANYTHING from injuries received during impact - LIMB INJURIES predominate. An avalanche with high kinetic energy is not possible on a slope 150 meters long. Only a snow slab is possible. An snow slab does not act on a point but on the entire surface of the body. And in the case we are considering, we are dealing with a trauma received by a POINT impact on the places of damage. Moreover (this is most clearly seen from the description of the damage on Rustem Slobodin), the impact was multidirectional and repeated. Rustem fought. Moreover, two of the guys received injuries incompatible with life (Thibeaux-Brignolle and Dubinina) and COULD NOT move independently. Zolotaryov was also severely injured, and believe me, he could not move around on his own and do any anything. These three could not leave the site of a hypothetical avalanche on their own. Given that the coroner gave Lyuda 20 minutes when they allegedly dug up, she was undoubtedly dead. Three. Three bodies and eight footprints. IT HAPPENED DOWN!!! It is not described in the literature, but according to the autopsy reports, it is clear (you will see) that the blood in Zina's face is NOT FROM COLD pulmonary edema. The cause of bleeding is an injury to the base of the skull and the ethmoid bone. Rustem Slobodin has a skull injury (and not a post-mortem divergence of sutures - by the way, typical for people over 35 years old). Kolevatov's skull injury (see Matveeva's autopsy report, which describes a hematoma in the right behind the ear region). I am sending you links to the properties of snow and avalanches, including those in the Urals. One case is known to you. One is similar in terms of conditions, but the causes of death are different in both cases. In general, impeccable proof - I mean Buyanov: a little statistics, a little physics, the drawings seem to be flawless. A hitch: damned doctors say that death has come DOWN. Well, THREE OUT OF NINE PHYSICALLY COULD NOT MOVE ON THEIR OWN! Here I quarreled with Vibro does not want to confirm this and that's it! About missile launches - please, but about injuries - not my God! The reason is not clear to me. Well.
May 19, 2006 3 pm
You often mention the Dubinins, obviously you are in close contact with them. And why are they annoyed in the forum? And what about prosecutors? So far there is no information. Den was allowed to view the case, but the case has now been upgraded to restricted view. This activity, right? So this contradicts the status that was given by the General Procurement Committee: the case is in an open archive and is subject to access upon agreement with the regional office. About Mansi, of course not Mansi, but who? Although the likelihood that they were Mansi is high. The chum could be located on the opposite slope of the Ridge, where the Khozya River, Unya, in my opinion. About the nature of the injuries, I completely agree with you. That's all.
May 24, 2006 9 pm
Well, I read it. Okay, of course. The whole catch is that when exposed to an avalanche, the force (in any case - both on impact and on blockage) is distributed EQUALLY (in relation to the surface of the body). Unfortunately, the same rule applies to a shock wave. Therefore, the meaning of the objection in response to you can be accepted. It is a pity that, figuratively speaking, the blow was made on you, and not on the avalanche. As for the previous letter. An employee of the prosecutor's office called, access to the case was forcibly restricted (letter). Restricted in the sense of the same restriction as for Authors: text is available, appendices are not. The annexes contain links to the missing parts: a list of material evidence and documents seized from the case with the details of sending (where and for what purpose). But, there is always hope that ALL documents will be disclosed before the official deadline. There is more than enough information there. Let them read it once .. I can't help it, the facts speak of a two-factor interference, the first - that drove them out of the tent, and the second - that killed them. But, unfortunately, below... The the area of the cedar zone...
May 24, 2006 9 pm
Went through the latest posts. Buyanov has a logical inconsistency: let him decide for himself whether the avalanche he describes was a snow slab or an impact avalanche. In the case of low kinetic energy of the avalanche (beyond - the height and angle of the slope) - the melting of the snow is INCREDIBLE. At the same time, THE WHOLE WEIGHT of snow that SHOULD fall on the tent WOULD NOT EXCEED the weight of snow calculated by ALESSIO (Russian forum member - ed. note), but would be distributed over the AREA OF THE BODIES. It's funny, but super-wonderful: one has a broken SKULL, but the ribs are intact, while others have broken ribs, but DIFFERENT (asymmetric). If the speed of the avalanche was SUFFICIENT to MELT the underlying layer (and the height of the slope?!), then the tent would have been demolished!!! That is, the hypothetical avalanche IN THIS PLACE is super-wonderful and unique... Just like the Arctic dwarves...
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Jun 1, 2006 7 am
Thank you so much for the compliment and trust! I have read the Forum and am fulfilling your unspoken request: I am sending you a short medical essay about our case. Why an essay? I don’t know how to call it differently, because you don’t have full autopsy reports. But what is there is enough. These data are based on information available to you. According to the autopsy reports, hypothermia was only a BACKGROUND for other causes of death for some participants in the trek. Death from hypothermia (and only from it!) can explain the death of Doroshenko, Krivonischenko and Dyatlov. In the case of the rest of the guys, besides hypothermia, there were other factors that hastened the onset of death. I'm not talking about Thibeaux-Brignolle, and Dubinina, and Zolotaryov.
Slobodin received a severe craniocerebral injury, which manifested itself (so to speak) morphologically in the form of a divergence of the bones of the cranial vault. Absence of bleeding under the meninges is not a permanent sign of injury. Hypothermia only hastened death. The only one with head injuries was the longest unconscious. In his case, it is not possible to say with certainty whether he could walk after the head injury. I will not give statistical evidence - I am not Buyanov. But the damage to the skin on the BACK of his hands suggests that he KNOCKED something hard with his fists. These injuries are intravital and (comparatively) old, if I may say so, the crust has managed to form. Another mechanism for the occurrence of such skin lesions is unexplained.
Kolmogorova has a fracture of the base of the skull and the ethmoid bone, which manifested itself in bleeding, and take a good look: she lies HEAD UP on the slope. Such an injury causes a prolonged loss of consciousness. From the descriptions of the snow under the corpse, it is clear that she did not live long after this injury and died without regaining consciousness. If we assume (only assume!) that she and Slobodin were injured at the same time, Slobodin lived longer. But no clues. In terms of the time of injury to her and Slobodin. Part of the blood flowed into the trachea and esophagus.
Kolevatov - a slight craniocerebral injury could pass without loss of consciousness. A massive hematoma is described, the time of formation is not determined for two reasons: the decomposition of the corpse and the slow rate of appearing of hematomas. Injuries of the skin are partially framed as intravital, and some cannot be dated due to decomposition and the conditions of the corpse.
About Lyuda - below. The three phases of hypothermia described are a very, very AVERAGE version of the course of hypothermia in a person NOT MOVING. According to the autopsy reports, even in the amount available to you, none of the guys reached phase II, except for Slobodin. About injuries received in a state of agony. I have already said that the impact was multiple. In the normal state, there are some signs of lifetime injury. Such as the stages of organization of hematomas, the stages of formation and transformation of crusts (scabs) on wounds, for example. So, PART of abrasions and cuts of two at Cedar and Slobodin are unorganized, that is, they were obtained at LOW blood pressure, which is typical for the end of phase I, when centralization of blood circulation occurs, that is, there is no blood in the vessels of the skin. Here the wounds are gaping. At the end of the first phase, the level of consciousness is stupor, that is, a person reacts only to very, very strong pain stimuli. But that's not the point. This also speaks of multiple exposure. Well, phase one can be considered the beginning of agony. But this is a very literary phrase. The protocols don't say that. A description of the damage is given, but no summary. A summary follows later: given that the wounds (here and there) do not show signs of bleeding, one can assume their postmortem occurrence.
As for Dubinina. It wasn't even twenty minutes. Death occurred almost immediately after the chest wound. Immediately AFTER the impact. But the hematomas described in the autopsy report were obtained before, This is important! She received mortal injuries ON THE SITE, in a ravine. The chest is broken in a ravine. death did not come from the fact that a rib mechanically pierced into the heart. Ugh, how unprofessional! She died of a contusion of the heart. The cause of death in this case is cardiac arrest, medically called electrical myocardial instability. The heart is a kind of muscular organ. It not only contracts, but also generates electrical impulses that travel along certain paths in a certain order. This ensures the relative autonomy of its work. The ECG, which is taken by doctors, indicates the correctness of the conduction of these impulses in various parts of the heart and the place of their generation, and if there is a violation in these departments, the pattern of impulse conduction also changes. When hit on the chest, the heart itself is well cushioned by the ligaments supporting it there. But when the ribs are broken, and even fenestrated, like Lyuda's, the heart also experiences a blow. In our case, the blow fell on the right ventricle of the heart (small hematoma), and at the base of this ventricle is the main pacemaker - the generator, which leads to the launch of all underlying sections of the myocardium. There was a desynchronization of the work of the heart and its rapid stop. This explains the SMALL amount of blood in the pleural cavities. I already wrote that the Creator is wise, and forced women to breathe with their chest, and not with a diaphragm, like men. He did this so that the unborn child would be at peace. But the neurovascular bundle runs along the lower edge of the ribs. If the women has a fracture, this bundle is constantly damaged by fragments. The bleeding would in OUR case (provided that the heart is not affected) is massive, and, in itself, could lead to death. It didn’t come to that (a black medical joke is out of place - doctors are terrible cynics!). Good luck! You can quote.